Back in 90s i built a 306ci first with ported E7s all add ons and 9.7cr, made 268rwhp at the time I upgraded everything so ran out of money for aluminum heads but set engine for them in near future. Swapped just E7s for these cr remained nearly same and WOW what an improvement made 312rwhp. Power increased across the board with peak HP occurring 400 rpm higher now. I debated between these and AFR 165 and very happy I went with these, ran them about 2 years trouble free.
If you look at the dynos the TFS TW always made more peak torque than any of the others and higher hp. The higher peak torque with the same combo means they are more efficient. They really kick ass. If you were doing it again, you could setup a combo that makes similar to coyote numbers with ported TFS TW and the right parts.
This is another example why we don't race flow benches, or dynos for that matter. These heads just work in a real world situation, no matter what your flow numbers or little windmill are telling you.
Twisted Wedge.... Old school stuff that is still alive. Thank you for a great tutorial! Those old casting non 11r heads make the Ford stuff go fast. Not saying the 11r's don't. They do too. Now a big fan of the "R" head. :)
Ports that point at the cylinder wall have tumble not swirl, that is why all DRC Pro-stock heads have FORD ports, same as NASCAR heads all use FORD ports.
Thanks for the FORD stuff hopefully you ll do more had a set of these on a low compression 351 with a 224 234 500 520 cam with 112 lobes never had it on the dyno but in a 3600 lb car it ran 12 60 at 109 with a 2500 stall and 4 11 gears still have the heads plan to put them on a 408 and this video give me a direction to move in thanks
I know some of the class racers back in the late 90’s use to weld up the seats to drop the valve lower which helped with shrouding and that short side. Also I’ve always heard these are swirl ports that got noisy on the bench after .600 lift and the high ports are tumble ports.
The Ford Twisted Wedge with the stock intake port location and 15 degree valve angle stock is a mess but in the right hands they can be made to make great power. Had a set done by Mike Curcio years ago that were previously CNC ported buy a reputable company and one thing he told me was how loud they were on the flow bench at higher lifts and once you get the ports right they became much smoother and quieter on the bench and then you know you are going in the right direction with the port. The ports he did and the ports Eric did are almost identical at every valve lift except mine were 8 more cfm better at .400 and Eric's 6 more cfm better at .600" and 11 more cfm at .700 and they backed up about the same. It seems that no matter what you do they stall around .600"-.700" but they still will make great power. On a pump gas 374" to run 10.30 at 129 through mufflers weighing 3280 tells you how good these heads can be in the right hands. If I'm not mistaken I think Mike was the first to run 8's N/A with a T/W R head? Great job Eric and whoever is putting those heads on will be very happy.
I have the Aussie 2v's and got 290I and 230E @.500 out of them👍 You ever worked the SBC 291 fuelies? I have those too. With the factory 2.02's/160's and Factory Relief Cut. Worked the ports but no bench #'s
Question, on my 3800 v6 heads. Alot of castings these days are cracked in between the intake and exhaust. Alot of guys just keep running them. What are long term effects of not replacing the heads while running heads that have cracks between the valves???
Interesting all the nuances from one head to the next. The only thing I know about Trick Flow heads on Ford small blocks, is they have always been known to make good power, and usually the best power per dollar spent. I don't think swirl is a necessity for these heads based on how the Dyno and track numbers speak for themselves.
TFS or AFR is usually a solid bet for making a powerful SBF with simple off the shelf parts. We are so spoiled today. You can build a 500hp+ 347 with all parts from summit racing and a credit card
A lot of Ford's reverse after the convergence point, because of valve placement and port direction. Darin Morgan talks about this in one of his wetflow videos. It's not something you can do too much about because the port is just aiming the way it is. The most "direct" path for airflow changes as the valve opens. Use a velocity probe and watch what happens.
I agree but I don’t think the less valve angle and really short side help with standard port height. I can take a Tfs high port and it will flow all the way up but it’s 20degree.
The oe’s spend alot of research on swirl, tumble and squish. It has effect on the combustion efficiency and emissions. But theres many factors that contribute, not so easy to sift trough. Also it mainly seem to matter at low rpms. At higher rpms it is thought that the fuel/aur mixture have enough energy to get the mixing done anyways. I guess back to back dyno testing is the only way to know.
I've heard the same thing - that swirl and tumble become far more important when the airspeed is low, like part throttle operation at low RPM Curious if this particular design is just basically trading swirl for tumble. Or, trading the energy spent on making swirl and/or tumble for more airflow?
Wouldn't it be more beneficial for the air to swirl the one direction? what would prevent it swirl in reverse? great information, over my pay grade I've only delt with standard OEM products, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones, best wishes to your son and his swimming
Thanks for doing this. I've been waiting for someone to not only flow but work these above .600. There just isn't any info out there. What do you think made the most difference in the gain between .600 and .700? I'm guessing widening the ssr? I would think that is a huge improvement for those of us who are pushing air through too fast already over .600
Would you recommend AFRs over 11Rs? Next build will still be SBF, assuming I won’t go Coyote. Granted, turbos will overcome lots of shortcomings (Honda & Toyota fanboys can attest).
Hey Eric, Questions for you. What is your take on welding inside ports (alloy), does it weaken/distort the head? what the chances of valve seats coming loose from distortion? Some heads have material lacking behind the valve seat inserts like procomps, is it possible to weld them up? what about epoxy in street heads, does it come loose, what would you use, what about down near the valve such as behind the seats or making a vane. Have you have epoxy come loose. Thanks.
Looks like they're maximized for .540 to .600 HR street cams out of the box. If more track oriented, I'm guessing the Hi-Ports may be the way to go or am I over generalizing?
What if we made a SBF 302 head with a 351W ort height (or a 400 Mopar head with a 440 port height) or a BBC Head with a Tall block port height golly could you use the 351w or 440 manifolds? That does not look like a SBF canted valve head do they still make a SBC chevy with canted valves? OK OK just tripping I care about .100 will try and address on your Q&A
Is it just me or does it seem like the "twist" makes the short turn situation even worse? With the valve more where it wuold be if they were left in line it would have more runner length to make a less abrupt turn, they could have raised the floor and had more room to arch it down into the port.
That’s because Small Block Chevy is the best! At least it is in my book because I worked at Chevrolet and that’s what I know. But I’m reality anything with a combustion chamber is awesome!
Eric, thanks for the SBF Trick Flow content! I'm a fan of both.
Have a set of Comp Ported CNC 205 11Rs waiting to go on my 331.
Back in 90s i built a 306ci first with ported E7s all add ons and 9.7cr, made 268rwhp at the time I upgraded everything so ran out of money for aluminum heads but set engine for them in near future. Swapped just E7s for these cr remained nearly same and WOW what an improvement made 312rwhp. Power increased across the board with peak HP occurring 400 rpm higher now. I debated between these and AFR 165 and very happy I went with these, ran them about 2 years trouble free.
If you look at the dynos the TFS TW always made more peak torque than any of the others and higher hp. The higher peak torque with the same combo means they are more efficient. They really kick ass. If you were doing it again, you could setup a combo that makes similar to coyote numbers with ported TFS TW and the right parts.
This is another example why we don't race flow benches, or dynos for that matter.
These heads just work in a real world situation, no matter what your flow numbers or little windmill are telling you.
Sure. Did you compare to something that flowed more or are just hypothesizing.
The twisted wedge head makes more power than any other head commensurate to it. Not much more, but more.
Twisted Wedge.... Old school stuff that is still alive. Thank you for a great tutorial! Those old casting non 11r heads make the Ford stuff go fast. Not saying the 11r's don't. They do too. Now a big fan of the "R" head. :)
Excellent swirl versus flow comparison ..thank you for sharing and giving your opinion on the subject ..
Ports that point at the cylinder wall have tumble not swirl, that is why all DRC Pro-stock heads have FORD ports, same as NASCAR heads all use FORD ports.
Would love to see that swirl test on one of the R heads; I have heard that was trickflows attempt at both tumbling AND swirling into the bore.
Thanks for the FORD stuff hopefully you ll do more had a set of these on a low compression 351 with a 224 234 500 520 cam with 112 lobes never had it on the dyno but in a 3600 lb car it ran 12 60 at 109 with a 2500 stall and 4 11 gears still have the heads plan to put them on a 408 and this video give me a direction to move in thanks
Great info as usual 👍
Wealth of knowledge. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for Watching.
Great info . Thank you . Finally a ford customer so i can get aome info thanks again
Thanks for keeping watching when its not Ford stuff.
I know some of the class racers back in the late 90’s use to weld up the seats to drop the valve lower which helped with shrouding and that short side. Also I’ve always heard these are swirl ports that got noisy on the bench after .600 lift and the high ports are tumble ports.
The Ford Twisted Wedge with the stock intake port location and 15 degree valve angle stock is a mess but in the right hands they can be made to make great power. Had a set done by Mike Curcio years ago that were previously CNC ported buy a reputable company and one thing he told me was how loud they were on the flow bench at higher lifts and once you get the ports right they became much smoother and quieter on the bench and then you know you are going in the right direction with the port. The ports he did and the ports Eric did are almost identical at every valve lift except mine were 8 more cfm better at .400 and Eric's 6 more cfm better at .600" and 11 more cfm at .700 and they backed up about the same. It seems that no matter what you do they stall around .600"-.700" but they still will make great power. On a pump gas 374" to run 10.30 at 129 through mufflers weighing 3280 tells you how good these heads can be in the right hands. If I'm not mistaken I think Mike was the first to run 8's N/A with a T/W R head? Great job Eric and whoever is putting those heads on will be very happy.
Thanks for some trick flow ford love!
Thank you for watching.
I have the Aussie 2v's and got 290I and 230E @.500 out of them👍
You ever worked the SBC 291 fuelies? I have those too. With the factory 2.02's/160's and Factory Relief Cut. Worked the ports but no bench #'s
Question, on my 3800 v6 heads. Alot of castings these days are cracked in between the intake and exhaust. Alot of guys just keep running them. What are long term effects of not replacing the heads while running heads that have cracks between the valves???
Interesting all the nuances from one head to the next. The only thing I know about Trick Flow heads on Ford small blocks, is they have always been known to make good power, and usually the best power per dollar spent. I don't think swirl is a necessity for these heads based on how the Dyno and track numbers speak for themselves.
TFS or AFR is usually a solid bet for making a powerful SBF with simple off the shelf parts. We are so spoiled today. You can build a 500hp+ 347 with all parts from summit racing and a credit card
@@Bacongrease00just the way it should be 😅
A lot of Ford's reverse after the convergence point, because of valve placement and port direction. Darin Morgan talks about this in one of his wetflow videos. It's not something you can do too much about because the port is just aiming the way it is. The most "direct" path for airflow changes as the valve opens. Use a velocity probe and watch what happens.
I agree but I don’t think the less valve angle and really short side help with standard port height. I can take a Tfs high port and it will flow all the way up but it’s 20degree.
Liked it
Thank you for watching.
The oe’s spend alot of research on swirl, tumble and squish. It has effect on the combustion efficiency and emissions. But theres many factors that contribute, not so easy to sift trough.
Also it mainly seem to matter at low rpms. At higher rpms it is thought that the fuel/aur mixture have enough energy to get the mixing done anyways.
I guess back to back dyno testing is the only way to know.
I've heard the same thing - that swirl and tumble become far more important when the airspeed is low, like part throttle operation at low RPM
Curious if this particular design is just basically trading swirl for tumble. Or, trading the energy spent on making swirl and/or tumble for more airflow?
Right on, here before the audio finishes rendering.
Would be cool to see dyno numbers of the same engine with 2 different heads that flow the same but have different swirl speed.
Maybe some day.
Wouldn't it be more beneficial for the air to swirl the one direction? what would prevent it swirl in reverse? great information, over my pay grade I've only delt with standard OEM products, thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones, best wishes to your son and his swimming
It should be but I haven't tested that on the dyno.
Thanks for doing this. I've been waiting for someone to not only flow but work these above .600. There just isn't any info out there. What do you think made the most difference in the gain between .600 and .700? I'm guessing widening the ssr? I would think that is a huge improvement for those of us who are pushing air through too fast already over .600
Widening the short side and more bowl area.
Would you recommend AFRs over 11Rs? Next build will still be SBF, assuming I won’t go Coyote. Granted, turbos will overcome lots of shortcomings (Honda & Toyota fanboys can attest).
11R > AFR
Hey Eric, Questions for you. What is your take on welding inside ports (alloy), does it weaken/distort the head? what the chances of valve seats coming loose from distortion? Some heads have material lacking behind the valve seat inserts like procomps, is it possible to weld them up? what about epoxy in street heads, does it come loose, what would you use, what about down near the valve such as behind the seats or making a vane. Have you have epoxy come loose. Thanks.
with procomps I wouldn't trust the head period. On other heads it depends where you weld and how much.
What’s a strong cylinder head would make some good power.
Looks like they're maximized for .540 to .600 HR street cams out of the box. If more track oriented, I'm guessing the Hi-Ports may be the way to go or am I over generalizing?
What if we made a SBF 302 head with a 351W ort height (or a 400 Mopar head with a 440 port height) or a BBC Head with a Tall block port height golly could you use the 351w or 440 manifolds?
That does not look like a SBF canted valve head do they still make a SBC chevy with canted valves? OK OK just tripping I care about .100 will try and address on your Q&A
i wonder what the new 11Rs would flow? they make a 205 in those too
If some ever come into the shop I will find out.
Off topic have you flowed the Mopar W2?
These heads were specifically made for EFI. This may have influenced the decision to give up swirl to increase flow.
ok
Is it just me or does it seem like the "twist" makes the short turn situation even worse? With the valve more where it wuold be if they were left in line it would have more runner length to make a less abrupt turn, they could have raised the floor and had more room to arch it down into the port.
15 degree or 20 degree head???? Maybe I'm missing something but 20 degree is normal and idk about a 15 degree tfs Ford head...
Trick flow made many different angle 20,15, and 11
I run the 11r190's on a boosted 349ci SBF and they have 11 degree intake valve angle and 13 degree exhaust
Great video. Not really a ford guy was wondering these are old head design, has China stolen it and started manufacturing them ?
Not to my knowledge
I myself never thought trickflo anything is any good, even there gaterman lifters junk, better then stock tho
They make really good Ford heads
@@WeingartnerRacing I'm sorry for the wrong spelling, got to love smart phones, smarter than some but dumber then the rest!
That’s because Small Block Chevy is the best! At least it is in my book because I worked at Chevrolet and that’s what I know. But I’m reality anything with a combustion chamber is awesome!
Nice job BTW