Rapiers are still 1h weapons so they get the higher penalty in the off hand. Finessability for rapiers, ECB, etc. Is an exception to the standard rules. Regarding ability and feats, it's better to take 15 Dex to start and get TWF as a normal feat instead of waiting for the bonus feat at lvl2. That way, your ability bonus at lvl4 can bump your Dex modifier to +3 which is the most a breastplate will allow. Another note on double weapons (double sword, orc double axe, quarterstaff, etc) is that when you are not using them for two weapon fighting, such as charging, cleaving, or just standard move-and-attack, you treat them as a 2h weapon and get the 1.5x Str to damage, which is very nice for a Str based TWF. Lastly, regarding Power Attack, only the off hand attack gets reduced damage. So your main hand gets the -1/+2 and your off hand gets -1/+1.
With regards to weapon sizes in Pathfinder vs. D&D 3.5: Light = Small, One Handed = Medium, 2 Handed = Large. Reach in the CRPG is denoted in the weapon description (6m reach = reach weapon).
I believe weapon size, goes by its weight. Up to 3lbs, seems to be considered small/light. That said, I am trying a Dwarf Freebooter/Invulnerable Rager, dual wielding Dwarven axes. +2 Dex, +2Con, +2Wis, and put everything in Str. I don't generally enjoy multiclassing, but am forcing myself to try.
This is a very valuable guide. Two weapons build is often underestimated and just as often undepowered. About the two bladed sword and axe thou... I love these weapons in Neverwinter and I`d very much would like to know if they are valuable in Kingmaker, althou the orc axe does seems quite small for two bladed weapon. Well, if not valuable at least comparable to two medium weapon build like bastard swords.
there aren't many two-bladed swords in the game, for the orc double axe, you could find that late in the game. I manage to find two of them, Fatender (haha)!
I want to create a heavy armor wearing dual wielder and was thinking of using this as a base to work from. Is this viable using Slayer instead of Ranger, and if so where should I spread my starting stats? I was going to go 18str right off the bat with the excess into con. I'm not sure if Slayer ever needs Wis, unlike Ranger?
OK firstly a Slayer cannot use Heavy armor, only Medium or Light Armor. You could take the Heavy armor feat, but you might not be able to use all of the Slayer/Ranger/Rogue abilities when wearing Heavy Armor. If you are going to wear Medium armor go for the Breastplate as it is the best Medium armor available. You do not need wisdom for Slayer, so Str and Con is fine. You might want to consider a couple of points in Dex to improve your AC in Medium Armor and your Touch AC and a minimum of 13 Dex is required for some feats. You might always consider adding a few points into Intelligence since a lot of feats require a minimum of 13. Having said that you will probably be able to get something like Str 18 Dex 13 Con 14+ Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 10 And this would be perfectly acceptable for a build
You sure can. Every 4 levels you get another point to add to any attribute you like It is actually a well used strategy to only go to 15 at creation and then increase to 16 later because it usually costs 3+points to go from 15 to 16 but later each point does a full point increase.
I wonder if dex enhancing items count to the requirement dex; if they do, probably a fighter can surpass the ranger two weapon because they get so many feats
No Dex enhancing items do not count for Dex requirements, and yes the Dex based fighter is probably a little better at Two Weapon fighting than the Ranger, but only because they can get Weapon Specialization which adds to damage. Some of the exter Fighter feats require Str which you may not have if you focus on Dex as Fighter
@@rangertony turns out you can even in the latest version; I loaded an old save and hired a fighter merc that I could level up to 12, creating him with 20 str and 15 dex; after hiring and taking the first level I exited the leveling menu and gave him a belt of physical perfection (+4 dex and con); I was able to give him the improved and greater two weapon fighting feats at level up (17 and 19 dex); compared to this guy, Hedwirg has 10 wis and 10 cha instead of 7 wis and 7 cha, as well as 14 con instead of 11 con; WHAT a powerhouse ! and it turns out there are no limits to his dual wielding while focusing in strength !! .. I am still unsure about some of the weapon training extra feat regarding effortless two weapon fighting and exactly how wielding a shield as the off weapon applies to the two weapon feats (perhaps bashing has nothing to do with effortless twf and only with the specific shield bash feats, OR perhaps this helps with the main weapon such as a scimitar)
Would this build work on a Sacred Huntsmaster using unarmed as weapons? I really want to play as an Irori follower, and since his chosen weapon is fists I want to go that route, but I also don't want to leave my tiger behind because that's Irori's chosen beast, I am planning to dip 1 level in monk to get some unarmed feats and Wisdom AC bonus, so would this build work if I keep STR at 18, CON at 14 , dump INT and pour the rest in WIS? Edit: I have tried a DEX build but dipping 3 levels in rogue or being stuck with an agile fist amulets to do some decent damage really stings.
Firstly this is a Ranger not a Paladin build, so the Sacred Huntsmaster does not get combat styles. Secondly you might find that dipping into Monk for the unarmed feats does not work as expected because I think some of those feats require you to not wear armor You might instead consider playing a druid. You will be able to get your animal companion, and using unarmed may not be as much of an issue because you can shapechange eventually and then unarmed feats are extra useful
@@rangertony I understand that, however you see I am an Indian, and rarely do I ever get a chance to play a game where they depict stuff inspired from Indian culture, and now that I have a chance to roleplay as an inquisitor/cleric/paladin of a god inspired from my native cultre and religion, the only thing I don't have is a proper build. I even downloaded the Call Of the Wild mod for this very purpose, I made Divine Hunter which although has Irori as it's diety plays just like any other ranger, with a composite longbow. But I haven't given up on my search, I am still trying to make an unarmed ranger with Irori diety and Smilodon, I know I won't be able to wear armor but wouldn't that be countred if I take crane style and toggle fighting defensively on? Also the wisdom AC bonus will be there as well. I don't play on higher difficulties than normal and don't much care about optimal DPS, I just wanna do some decent damage and survive the fight.
Please understand that my philosophy is always "got for it". As long as you are having fun then give the idea a try. If you dont want to give a Druid of Irori a try then go for the Sacred Huntsmaster. There is nothing that says you have to use the weapon they give you. In fact if you select unarmed combat as a starting feat they might not give you any weapons. My recommendation on tactics is always have your pet right next to you in combat and take all of the teamwork feats you can get. Sacred Huntsmaster already gets a lot of those and automatically gives them to his pet so take advantage of them. Take Precise Strike and Outflank as soon as possible and then Seize the Moment and Back to Back. These are the best teamwork feats you can get and you should be able to get them fairly quickly.
@@rangertony How do I play as a Druid of Irori ? Is there a Druid archetype which will allow me to select a deity ? Or are you suggesting I play druid with 1 level dip in a deity selection class? There is a class added by the Call Of Wild mod called Warpriest which has monk like archetype called Sacred Fist which gives all the monk bonuses plus a deity selection. Thank you genuinely from the bottom of my heart from helping me, I appreciate it sincerely. :)
Well I have not played the Druid in PFKM so I incorrectly made the assumption that you selected a deity. Sorry about that. Sacred Huntsmaster sounds like your best option
Yes and no This is a huge question really The issue is that the Ranger if they choose the Two Weapon Combat style can take any of the Two Weapon fighting feats even if they do not normally qualify. This means that you can build a ranger with DEX < 15 and take any Two Weapon Fighting feat. The problem is you only get 5 of these bonus feats. For a fighter to get the same Two Weapon fighting feats they will need to make sure their DEX is high enough to get all of the feats, which means if they ultimately want Greater Two Weapon fighting at LVL 11 they will need to have a DEX of 19 by that time. This means they will have to put a lot of points into DEX meaning they might not have much left for STR or CON. This also means that you will most likely use finessable weapons as a fighter which generally do less damage. Since the Ranger can choose the Two Weapon fighting feats even if he has a low DEX he can be built as a STR based fighter and still use Two Weapon fighting effectively. As an example I can build a Dwarven Ranger who has a Str of 18 at first level and dual wields Dwarven Axes (each doing 1d10 damage) at 2nd level when he takes Two Weapon Combat
Damn you forced my hand... I had a video planned to release tomorrow which is an "Unusual 2 Handed Ranger Build" I am guessing it is pretty close to your build ua-cam.com/video/J746aQmQdJ4/v-deo.html
@@rangertony elf, dump str dump cha max dex 14 wis 10 int and rest in con, 1st level in ranger second in thug? I think it will be 12 ranger then all thug or a mix of thug and 2h fighter.
Sweet mother of god finally a decent melee ranger build. Cheers dude!
Your welcome
Thanks for your help. As a new player to the Pathfinder universe I found this most helpful.
Rapiers are still 1h weapons so they get the higher penalty in the off hand. Finessability for rapiers, ECB, etc. Is an exception to the standard rules.
Regarding ability and feats, it's better to take 15 Dex to start and get TWF as a normal feat instead of waiting for the bonus feat at lvl2. That way, your ability bonus at lvl4 can bump your Dex modifier to +3 which is the most a breastplate will allow.
Another note on double weapons (double sword, orc double axe, quarterstaff, etc) is that when you are not using them for two weapon fighting, such as charging, cleaving, or just standard move-and-attack, you treat them as a 2h weapon and get the 1.5x Str to damage, which is very nice for a Str based TWF.
Lastly, regarding Power Attack, only the off hand attack gets reduced damage. So your main hand gets the -1/+2 and your off hand gets -1/+1.
With regards to weapon sizes in Pathfinder vs. D&D 3.5: Light = Small, One Handed = Medium, 2 Handed = Large. Reach in the CRPG is denoted in the weapon description (6m reach = reach weapon).
Thanks for the info.
Unfortunately the problem is that the information is not provide in-game where it is actually useful.
Appreciate the guide! Thanks for putting it together.
No problem!
I believe weapon size, goes by its weight. Up to 3lbs, seems to be considered small/light.
That said, I am trying a Dwarf Freebooter/Invulnerable Rager, dual wielding Dwarven axes. +2 Dex, +2Con, +2Wis, and put everything in Str. I don't generally enjoy multiclassing, but am forcing myself to try.
Have you recommended stat & feat gain list from lv 2 & onwards? Literally never played this game before but your build sounded real neat
No sorry not for that build. That was one of my earliest build videos and I did not at the time have the ability to level up and show the progression.
@@rangertony Sall good bud
This is a very valuable guide. Two weapons build is often underestimated and just as often undepowered. About the two bladed sword and axe thou... I love these weapons in Neverwinter and I`d very much would like to know if they are valuable in Kingmaker, althou the orc axe does seems quite small for two bladed weapon. Well, if not valuable at least comparable to two medium weapon build like bastard swords.
there aren't many two-bladed swords in the game, for the orc double axe, you could find that late in the game. I manage to find two of them, Fatender (haha)!
I want to create a heavy armor wearing dual wielder and was thinking of using this as a base to work from. Is this viable using Slayer instead of Ranger, and if so where should I spread my starting stats? I was going to go 18str right off the bat with the excess into con. I'm not sure if Slayer ever needs Wis, unlike Ranger?
OK firstly a Slayer cannot use Heavy armor, only Medium or Light Armor. You could take the Heavy armor feat, but you might not be able to use all of the Slayer/Ranger/Rogue abilities when wearing Heavy Armor.
If you are going to wear Medium armor go for the Breastplate as it is the best Medium armor available.
You do not need wisdom for Slayer, so Str and Con is fine. You might want to consider a couple of points in Dex to improve your AC in Medium Armor and your Touch AC and a minimum of 13 Dex is required for some feats.
You might always consider adding a few points into Intelligence since a lot of feats require a minimum of 13.
Having said that you will probably be able to get something like
Str 18
Dex 13
Con 14+
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 10
And this would be perfectly acceptable for a build
Making an orc ranger with 16 str, 16 dex, 16 con, low int and cha.. 15 wis. Can I get wis up with a point later on lvling up?
You sure can. Every 4 levels you get another point to add to any attribute you like
It is actually a well used strategy to only go to 15 at creation and then increase to 16 later because it usually costs 3+points to go from 15 to 16 but later each point does a full point increase.
@@rangertony hey thanks for the reply. Appreciate it :) . Used to play pathfinder with friends way back. Never tried a ranger.
I wonder if dex enhancing items count to the requirement dex; if they do, probably a fighter can surpass the ranger two weapon because they get so many feats
No Dex enhancing items do not count for Dex requirements, and yes the Dex based fighter is probably a little better at Two Weapon fighting than the Ranger, but only because they can get Weapon Specialization which adds to damage. Some of the exter Fighter feats require Str which you may not have if you focus on Dex as Fighter
@@rangertony turns out you can even in the latest version; I loaded an old save and hired a fighter merc that I could level up to 12, creating him with 20 str and 15 dex; after hiring and taking the first level I exited the leveling menu and gave him a belt of physical perfection (+4 dex and con); I was able to give him the improved and greater two weapon fighting feats at level up (17 and 19 dex); compared to this guy, Hedwirg has 10 wis and 10 cha instead of 7 wis and 7 cha, as well as 14 con instead of 11 con; WHAT a powerhouse ! and it turns out there are no limits to his dual wielding while focusing in strength !! .. I am still unsure about some of the weapon training extra feat regarding effortless two weapon fighting and exactly how wielding a shield as the off weapon applies to the two weapon feats (perhaps bashing has nothing to do with effortless twf and only with the specific shield bash feats, OR perhaps this helps with the main weapon such as a scimitar)
Late game anything with low AC gets ripped apart in melee.
Would this build work on a Sacred Huntsmaster using unarmed as weapons? I really want to play as an Irori follower, and since his chosen weapon is fists I want to go that route, but I also don't want to leave my tiger behind because that's Irori's chosen beast, I am planning to dip 1 level in monk to get some unarmed feats and Wisdom AC bonus, so would this build work if I keep STR at 18, CON at 14 , dump INT and pour the rest in WIS?
Edit: I have tried a DEX build but dipping 3 levels in rogue or being stuck with an agile fist amulets to do some decent damage really stings.
Firstly this is a Ranger not a Paladin build, so the Sacred Huntsmaster does not get combat styles.
Secondly you might find that dipping into Monk for the unarmed feats does not work as expected because I think some of those feats require you to not wear armor
You might instead consider playing a druid.
You will be able to get your animal companion, and using unarmed may not be as much of an issue because you can shapechange eventually and then unarmed feats are extra useful
@@rangertony I understand that, however you see I am an Indian, and rarely do I ever get a chance to play a game where they depict stuff inspired from Indian culture, and now that I have a chance to roleplay as an inquisitor/cleric/paladin of a god inspired from my native cultre and religion, the only thing I don't have is a proper build. I even downloaded the Call Of the Wild mod for this very purpose, I made Divine Hunter which although has Irori as it's diety plays just like any other ranger, with a composite longbow. But I haven't given up on my search, I am still trying to make an unarmed ranger with Irori diety and Smilodon, I know I won't be able to wear armor but wouldn't that be countred if I take crane style and toggle fighting defensively on? Also the wisdom AC bonus will be there as well. I don't play on higher difficulties than normal and don't much care about optimal DPS, I just wanna do some decent damage and survive the fight.
Please understand that my philosophy is always "got for it". As long as you are having fun then give the idea a try.
If you dont want to give a Druid of Irori a try then go for the Sacred Huntsmaster. There is nothing that says you have to use the weapon they give you. In fact if you select unarmed combat as a starting feat they might not give you any weapons.
My recommendation on tactics is always have your pet right next to you in combat and take all of the teamwork feats you can get. Sacred Huntsmaster already gets a lot of those and automatically gives them to his pet so take advantage of them.
Take Precise Strike and Outflank as soon as possible and then Seize the Moment and Back to Back. These are the best teamwork feats you can get and you should be able to get them fairly quickly.
@@rangertony How do I play as a Druid of Irori ? Is there a Druid archetype which will allow me to select a deity ? Or are you suggesting I play druid with 1 level dip in a deity selection class? There is a class added by the Call Of Wild mod called Warpriest which has monk like archetype called Sacred Fist which gives all the monk bonuses plus a deity selection. Thank you genuinely from the bottom of my heart from helping me, I appreciate it sincerely. :)
Well I have not played the Druid in PFKM so I incorrectly made the assumption that you selected a deity. Sorry about that. Sacred Huntsmaster sounds like your best option
Is a ranger better with two weapons than a warrior?
Yes and no
This is a huge question really
The issue is that the Ranger if they choose the Two Weapon Combat style can take any of the Two Weapon fighting feats even if they do not normally qualify. This means that you can build a ranger with DEX < 15 and take any Two Weapon Fighting feat. The problem is you only get 5 of these bonus feats.
For a fighter to get the same Two Weapon fighting feats they will need to make sure their DEX is high enough to get all of the feats, which means if they ultimately want Greater Two Weapon fighting at LVL 11 they will need to have a DEX of 19 by that time. This means they will have to put a lot of points into DEX meaning they might not have much left for STR or CON. This also means that you will most likely use finessable weapons as a fighter which generally do less damage.
Since the Ranger can choose the Two Weapon fighting feats even if he has a low DEX he can be built as a STR based fighter and still use Two Weapon fighting effectively. As an example I can build a Dwarven Ranger who has a Str of 18 at first level and dual wields Dwarven Axes (each doing 1d10 damage) at 2nd level when he takes Two Weapon Combat
i did a dex based elf 2h ranger build
Damn you forced my hand...
I had a video planned to release tomorrow which is an "Unusual 2 Handed Ranger Build"
I am guessing it is pretty close to your build
ua-cam.com/video/J746aQmQdJ4/v-deo.html
@@rangertony elf, dump str dump cha max dex 14 wis 10 int and rest in con, 1st level in ranger second in thug? I think it will be 12 ranger then all thug or a mix of thug and 2h fighter.
I doubt there are any finesse 2h weapons