The Spider-Man Comics Don't Understand Spider-Man...
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2023
- The Spider-Man Comics Don't Understand Spider-Man...
In this video we talk about Marvel comics Zeb Wells run the amazing spider-man (2022) and the recent norman osborn, goblin queen and kraven the hunter story which sees them trying to unlock the sins of Green Goblin inside of Norman, instead it takes a turn for the worse!
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The father/son dynamic between Peter and Norman could have worked in a reboot where they start off great but slowly drift apart and Norman eventually becomes The Green Goblin
That would work
@@LewisFilmsProductions I kinda wanna do that for my own version of the Spider-Man character in one form or another
@@harryfleutv666 as do I
Isn't that what Freshman Year is gonna do?
@@kidanarchy2105 probably, and I hope it happens
I don't think I know Spider-Man anymore
Same
You know spiderman but not this spiderman
@@srstriker6420 Glad to know I'm not alone, it seems that Marvel is destroying Spider-Man's character
@@user-rx3oq9ew7u yeah because he is a complete mockery ever since he made a deal with the devil
@@srstriker6420 That was the dumbest thing ever
6:16 Norman actually did treat Peter like his son
Ie he literally tortured him, drugged him, and gaslighted for two days in the last three issue of revenge of the goblin arc. So yes Norman did treat Peter like his Son, Abusively and terribly
Yeah and especially his own flesh and blood which maybe Peter should have cover up his crimes and should have give his name to the police years ago
Pretty sure that Peter's line about Norman "treating him like a son" was a reference to this:
2.bp.blogspot.com/45VezOikVDQT-feu-Ax-FmGwZsxOEEXerviqwXmWfruaovv_widrooQGT1m3XgwB6njICJyWPLDiew=s0
Just a small correction. The canonish spectacular spider man comics did retcon Peter into meeting Norman before he turned into green goblin way way before Zeb Wells run. Basically he met him when he was still a teenager. Norman liked Peter's passion for science and wished that his son had this drive. So, as clumsy as the execution is , there's a precedent for it.
Damn I never knew about that. Still, there was never any major indication that it was a father son relationship
Not gonna lie Norman being a “good guy”,is like making Joker sane again
Yeah
So... "Batman White Knight" comics. Granted it's else world but still. It's exist and doesn't suck.
@@mrksimka1159 it's an interesting concept but when it comes to Norman Osborn's character I don't really think it suits his narrative
@@mrksimka1159 There's also a Justice Leauge Unlimited episode where alternate earth Superman gives Joker a brain surgery which makes him sane.
@@விஷ்ணு_கார்த்திக் he wasn’t sane there. It was lobotomy. Different concepts.
I recall that Norman was always disturbed way before he could take the serum because he rejected the light when his father locked him in basement and he accepted the Darkness and this is probably the Raimi influence and that No way home thing.
How is Raimi influence?
@@edgonlo17Isn't in the first movie where Norman slowly turns evil and become the slave to the green goblin, the comic feels like its going in there dude.
@@diegomeinie9472 nope what I meant was How Norman as a Father figure is Raimi influence? You can see little hints to that in Romita and Conway arcs. Trying to get Peter a job at what was called Osborn Industries at the time. So I wouldnt say is Raimi influence, dude. Btw In the comics Norman doesnt become a Slave to the goblin, Is more like a buried desire, hell now we know is more Mephisto's fault. So 🤷
@@edgonlo17 I have not read or was aware of those stories just seen the movies dude . In the First Tobey Movie Norman did become the goblin's servent and the goblin did take control so I see it like it is.
@@diegomeinie9472 👍
RIP Spiderman+his comics.
the writers treat the readers like they dont know spidermans history and i hate it
Me too
Because they don't know it themselves
While the twist of Peter becoming the green goblin is intriguing.
Based on this run.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Paul comes out of nowhere and one hit KO’s Peter somehow?
ALL HAIL DICTATOR PAUL
MAY HIS REIGN LAST A THOUSAND YEARS!!!
Hahaha
Thinking about it, it is possible for Peter to canonically have had a father son relationship with Norman.
_But_ that would mean that this comic came out after the current Spider-Man comic, not the Amazing Spider-Man, just the Spider-Man comic.
Where Peter’s history was retconned into having never become Spider-Man and Norman is a good guy. Because what better way to say this is Peter’s perfect life outside of House of M and that one crossover between him Hulk and Deadpool but to say Norman isn’t trying to ruin his life.
Even as that could work it’s still heavily complicated
Maybe Im mistaken but in the Romita era of TASM run Norman (when in amnesiac state) would offer Peter a Job in multiple ocassions, Peter always rejected this offers because didnt want him to reverse back to "goblin state" maybe this is what Wells meant?
Peter's really called Norman his father figure.😭
Has Zeb wells read any past comics? He literally is destroying ASM to it's core. Character assassination.
Everyone is out of character.
7:40 bro everyone saying this. Zeb never read comics. Look at MJ. She never would act like she did in vol 6 issue 25, 26.
If anything ruined It’s not amazing spider-man comics but Zeb wells reputation as Writer.
And in the Kindred saga that was not the case
Spider-man has become VERY CONFUSING
What about uncle Ben? Isn’t he still the father figure to Peter or not?
The problem is the Marvel Editorial.
I am now thinking if marvel Comics people are mafia or something.
Dammit Peter you should have ignored Norman years ago, because now he is becoming a Spider-Man who laughs so I guess that he will kill Paul for stealing his future and it was unexpected that Kraven and Queen Goblin are in a relationship.
Yeah basically Marvel is now making their own Batman Who Laughs.
HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS
I love the idea of a reformed Norman Osborn and do not want to see him turned evil again. His scenes with Peter Parker in this issue were heartwarming
Spidey becoming the goblin? I don't really know what to think about that.
Same 😂
While in this context it SUCKS. On the other hand a conner kent like story for a spidey variant would actually be pretty interesting🤔. A clone of Norman and Peter who is both goblin and spidey. Instead of being a Hero like Conner, he could make a good villain...maybe for Miles even🤔🤷♂️. Just spitballing
@@no.1spidey-fan182 that sounds cool! I would like it better if it was a variant.
Please, just kill Peter. Let him rest. I can't stand Well's Spider-man. He is worse than any issue of Slott's and I never thought that I would say it.
Who else wants an faithful definitive animated adaptation the ultimate comics?
I do
The norman treating Peter like a son thing is very new . Basicly becaus he is Harrys dad ther make it so that Peter knew him all his life. Makes sensens
I’m not a fan of Peter and Felicia breaking up in the last issue. It was so stupid. I hope marvel gets their heads together and pair them back together again. They deserve it. Love them together. They make one great couple and an amazing crime-fighting dynamic duo. SpiderCat all the way!!! 🕸️🐈⬛
I agree. Or just get him back with MJ
@@LewisFilmsProductions yeah, but I don’t see Peter and MJ together anymore or at the least anytime soon, due to what’s been going on. I know her and Paul are going through a tough time, but it may not be enough for her to get back with Peter because of what’s happened. They could stay as friends and have Peter reunite with Felicia and reconcile their relationship
Ya I'm a mj and peter shipper and even I think the break up was one of the dumbest ways to end peter and felicia relationship especially since she is a long running love interest for spiderman.
I feel like Kitty Pryde and Peter would be a cute couple
Felicia was always a better fit then MJ. It was just so dumb him being married to her and she getting mad that he’s off saving people and not home with her. So it’s stuck in his head . At least Felicia would be able to at least help him. But I recently came back to comics because of the grandkids and now I’ve heard about this silk character and in my head this would be a ulitimate fit with him if ya had true talented writers.
I’ve played too much of web of shadows and Spider-Man 3 to be able to notice the background music
Yeeeee
Bruh… can this run end already
I knowww
I just can't anymore with these comics. While I get some people thinking this is cool. I just don't this is just the symbiote suit making him evil. I am telling you either one of two things happens. Gold Goblin ends up taking the "sins things back" or Miles comes in and takes down Peter they have to figure out a way to make Peter good again and that could take a minute so that FINALLY makes Miles the definitive Spider-Man. I have held onto this theory for a while that they keep crapping on Peter to make him so unlikable when the replacement character comes in and takes his place people will be okay with it. It is the exact same thing they did to Captain America.
I love Spider-Man. Favorite fictional character. I've read all of ASM/SSM vol 1. I've also read the Spencer run which I loved. This current run is just not it. I stuck with it through Dark Web but dropped the title. Zeb Wells doesn't understand the character. I also do realize a lot of his choices are influenced by editorial too. I have my own issues with editorial. WHERE TF IS CONTINUITY?!! Fr, all these books take place on top of each other while being both simultaneously in the future and past?!!!
Yeah it’s all really annoying
Whatever happened to Norman's ex-wife, Emily? Considering she had to fake her own death to escape Norman before he even became the Green Goblin, I'm curious how she feels about Norman trying to reform.
My least favorite trope in comics... Good guy becomes evil instantly by magical means... no character development to get there. They're just evil now... Hated it since at least red kryptonite on Smallville... lazy and bad writing...
I think we’ve talked about Zeb Well’s run enough. Let’s not give this run anymore publicity.
Spiderman, Felicia and MJ deserve a Poly relationship tbh
Nick Lowe wants 2 self inserts of himself to be with MJ and Black Cat
I bought spectacular Spider-Man #229 and Peter Parker Spider-Man #75 revelations part4 yesterday. #75 where all I consider the end of the real Peter Parker story, The Norman's real death, and Ben reillys death. Writers can't (and shouldn't) be able throw all that away just because they want to tell there own story, ESPECIALLY when it just ret-cons literally the entire continuity, and character assassinate the main characters personality.
It should also be added that Norman sought to be a gangland boss before he made the goblin formula. Norman was a criminal even before he became the goblin. He as also a Bad Father to Harry!
Guys today has sucked fpr me i lost my pet got into a fight with my friend so please guys im asking is for your support thank you 🙏
THIS IS WHY MARVEL NEEDS A CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS OR SOMETHING. Or what would be easier and wouldn't ruin it for everyone is if they retry the Ultimate Universe but with an entirely new one.
pain.....
It's going to be worse in the future and I have no hope left 😢😢
By proxy it has to get better
@@LewisFilmsProductions but will it worth it
Peter has an awkward night yeah big surprise he can’t catch a break, and yes green goblin appeared first before Norman was even introduced in the comics. And I wonder how everyone would react to Peter as the new goblin on the street.
Yep
RE: Osborne treating Peter as a son. This is why a deep understanding of the history of the characters is important for the author. I feel in modern comics, it’s treated as an annoyance or simply ignored or worse - the author is completely ignorant.
I got a question thought what happened to harry osborn we dont really see him anymore
Superior Spider-Man but with norman
Yeah
I'm gonna be completely honest, maybe Marvel should just stop making Spider-Man comics, at least for the time being, to look at what the fans want. If they want to get a younger Spider-Man, the younger readers actually like Miles more than Peter because of the Spider Verse films. Make him the target for the newer readers and make Peter grow up for the fans who have been reading for years, so they don't just have the older fans in a frustrating time loop. MJ and Peter's will they won't they, Peter having a job and then losing it, him having money and then just going back to money problems. Make Miles the focus for newer fans and make Peter the focus for older ones. Give what you want for Peter and make if for Miles, when Miles gets older, you can have Peter be training a new Spider-Man in his run, and transfer it over after Miles grow up, it's an insanely good idea that Marvel is too scared to go through with.
Atless Dan knows peter
Does this comic not have a continuity coordinator? You’d think there’s be SOMEONE who’s JOB is to keep up with the continuity…
I’m telling you bro .. they are purposely sabotaging Peter’s Spider-Man to give Miles Spider-Man better stories.
Miles bros we keep winning 🎉
@@leonardo0two I love Miles bro i just wish they did my boy Peter justice 😭
Miles do be winning
@@Mr.PR2000 yes because I’m starting to think Peter Parker is an outdated because he is like Peter Pan and Frank Grimes combined
@@srstriker6420 What? Gtfoh with your dumb shit.
Is this implying that Norman did everything he did because of the Goblin Serum, aka mental illness? If so, I hate that. It's a comic book, sometimes people are just evil to be evil. But I guess that would mean giving him a motive behind it all, and maybe that's too hard for modern writers, I dunno. Also, Peter's seen Norman fake goodness and turning a new leaf before. He should be incredibly wary of this change, even though his big character trait is looking for the best in people.
Do you think it's really better than Nick Spenser run who implied that he became evil and abusive towards his son because of the devil himself who rewrote history after Norman sold his son's soul to him? Why write a believable backstory, character development when you can have a character magically turn evil and magically turn good? Norman was never such a well written or consistent character but this is just character assassination which removes any type of agency just so that fans would buy his redemption
@@lyra2570 I never said that, and I've never read Spenser's run.
Can I bring up the fact that Peter already knew a lawyer named Michele(Gonzales)?
Oh shoot
10:15 The Spider-Man Who CACKLES😂
Took marvel long enough to rip that off💀
Lmao
Are you going to review Spider-Man lotus?
Yes I would love that
@ratinahatroblox3021 yes
I hope they make Peter remember one more day cause that's a sin
I’d rather Peter be with Gwen actually..
Glad I quit reading long ago. Go read 80s and 90s Spider-Man and see what built this character
Yeah
You hit the nail on the head on the Peter/Norman relationship. And that’s why Zeb Wells and Nick Lowe are completely out of touch.
Another point: if the sins of Norman Osborn were transferred into the spear, why didn’t (the clone of) Ashley Kafka return to her normal self? Wasn’t that what transformed her in the first place?
Oh yeah. This whole run is screwed
Why Marvel hate Peter Parker so much?
Just jealous
Maybe Spidey writers need to come up with some new ideas other than Norman Osborn ruining his life???
Damn yeah
Like the Art style of the issue though
Art style was cool
Batman who laughs vibes
Do more spider-man 2 videos please
Honestly batman book is also breaking batman batfamily you should make a video on them
Didn't Norman treat Peter like a son during the comics when he first got amnesia I'm pretty sure that where he would compare harry to Peter like around issue 56-58 and other in between when he gets amnesia
Don't get me wrong I'm pretty sure it wasn't much but idk something lol
I think the first time Norman Osborne was Made into a father figure to Peter was in Spiderman the Animated series. I might be wrong because the last time I saw the show was in the 90s
It wasn’t really there either
@@LewisFilmsProductions Oh Ok Thanks
Would you review the new doc ock manga, it can't be worse than this run tbh
I actually like the golden goblin arc it’s the only good thing to come out of this current spider man run And I think it shows a huge misunderstanding of Peter as a character that you don’t think he would be friends with Norman while he’s on his redemption ark. Peter is literally known as one of the most kind and forgiving characters second only to captain America.
He's literally bffs with Venom and was on good terms with Ock too during superior spider man arc before his inevitable return to villainy.
Yh but Goblin KILLED Gwen and did the most HEINIOUS things to Peter. Doc Ock and Venom getting a pass is BS but it only worked cause of the godly levels of rewriting
Ock needed to be FORCE FED Peter memories to become a "hero"
And Venom became better as a whole when it attached to flash thompson. And Eddie was working overtime to redeem himself as Anti Venom
In Norman's case...he got shot by a...sin removing...SHOTGUN😭🤦♂️
They should just retcon it and say it takes place in another universe
I just beginned reading spider man form the 2022 series and i don't think its bad
I had a theory that like the kids paul is just a creation of rabin and he was originally created by rabin to lure in Mary Jane but through the power of love or some bull crap he went against his programming cuz let’s face it paul is just Peter if he never got powers paul is a tech genius he’s kind and heroic like Peter hes everything mary jane wants from Peter minus the spider powers also when Peter saves Paul and mj from the alternate reality they go to a hospital and the dr says there’s no record of paul but wouldn’t there be a past 616 Paul since they were in an alternate future or even mention of Paul’s mom also Paul sez rabin is his father but superheroe family trees get complicated when u add clones or kids from alternate futures like how Peter considers Ben Riley a brother
🙏🙏
To some people; if Peter is miserable then it's good Spider-Man.
As stupid as that is.
Yeah because you think that this is pretty outdated and is toxic because this could cause psychological damage in the long run
"Zeb Wells" and "writes [...] so well" don't belong in the same sentence
Haha
#restorethespiderverse
Doctor Curt Conners, The Lizard would have worked better instead of trying to redeem Harry Osborn AGAIN. Having Harry Osborn serve as some kind of “father figure” for Peter is saying that Peter is a cuck. Osborn killed Gwen. There’s no redemption for that. Dragging this “Norman Osborn is a good example for Peter” is repetitive and dumb. It’s like saying Screw continuity. At this point at Marvel, nothing really matters anymore.
Good Comic
Ive never liked Peter and Mary Jane. And i blame the sam ramey movies for that because of how they had her act in those films. Whenever I think of MJ I just think of a total bitch
Hey Lewis I’m planning on killing Spider-man son off in the future but don’t worry I’ll be bringing him back to normal and I won’t do lots of torture to Peter. I’ll be giving him a good life but I decided to have Peter kill his son’s killer. What’s your reaction to Peter killing his son’s killer?
I give up
They should just keep Norman the way that he is. Let characters grow. I am sick of circular storytelling.
It’s insane how much these single lines like, “Oh you treated me like a son,” and that one line about ill children from the last issue can anger so many people. I can’t tell who’s worse: the writers who didn’t take up the time to do their research for a 900+ issue comic story and keep continuity, or the fans who complain about said continuity DESPITE it being over 900+ issue comic story.
Probably the writers since its their job 🤷♀️
Definitely the writers since it’s their job that they’re paid to do, to make good stories for fans to enjoy.
@@LewisFilmsProductions I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Their job is to write stories that people will buy, regardless of whether it’s good or bad to long time fans.
Although, in terms of the long-term fanbase, this feels like “even bad publicity is still publicity,” sort of case, where even if the fans aren’t happy with the how spider-man is going, people are still buying these issues because they want to see how bad it is, but this is also just speculation on my part. 🤔
Proof Zeb Wells is a normie who was introduced to Spider-Man in 2002
Spiderman 32
Just pre order spider-man 2 it’s going way better reading those crappy spider-man comics.
Already done 💪
Having Peter parker Spider-Man say Norman Osborn is like a father to him is complete bullshit on so many levels that it ain't even funny but just frustrating on so many levels that it just drives me insane, also side note I am sick and tired of marvel keeping Peter parker Spider-man being a singles guy and hanging out with Norman Osborn it just doesn't work and just proves my point that marvel really has no idea what to do with Amazing Spider-Man book anymore, which is just sad and depressing because the Peter parker I knew and love were married to his wife Mary jane and would never ever forgive the man who murdered Gwen Stacy and ever forgive this man for kidnapping his daughter mayday parker away from her parents to just get revenge on Spider-Man which is just stupid on so many levels its just sad and depressing at least in my opinion.
Yeah it’s a madness
@@LewisFilmsProductions lol indeed it's plain madness at this point that it ain't even funny but just sad and depressing at least in my opinion.
@@TevyaSmolka yeah I’m starting to think that Peter thing is outdated especially trying to make him a teenager again
@@srstriker6420 indeed an you're right about that frankly for me I have reached my breaking point with marvel terrible obsession of not letting Peter parker Spider-Man grow the Fuck up and move forward and let him be a actual father to his daughter mayday parker spider-girl alive and kicking is the best option for everyone involved for this character at least in my opinion.
Zeb Wells Spider-Man is peak tbh, 10/10 comic, still haven't read this issue but I'm excited to see what the goat Zeb Wells has to offer me this week!!!
Spider-Man really gets it good except when it comes to the comics
The norman treating Peter like a son thing is very new . Basicly becaus he is Harrys dad ther make it so that Peter knew him all his life. Makes sensens