Are Mercedes Sidepods Legal?
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- Опубліковано 10 бер 2022
- Go follow Scarbs on Twitter - @ScarbsTech - / scarbstech
So you know those teeny sidepods on the Mercedes, are they actually legal?
And there is a lot of ‘stuff’ in a Formula 1 car - so how did they just shuffle it all about to make it all fit? And what’s that weird sticky out section about?
Well, we’ve got Scarbs back to explain.
So Merc have rocked up with these genius sidepods, that look to be helping the floor work more effectively as well as creating more outwash - dealing with the tyre wake and potentially reducing drag.
But it does seem weird that they weren’t running them back in Barcelona? We’re they keeping it secret for Bahrain? Lemme pass you over to Scarbs.
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#Mercedes #Formula1 #F1 - Авто та транспорт
Do you think this will ACTUALLY work? Will it be the next 'double diffuser'?
*Don't forget to subscribe*
I hope not.
100% - Lewis 8 time champion and Constructor champion -2022.
Yes, they'll at least win the constructors yet again.
I'm sure it will work, but if they didn't design enough cooling for racing in high heat while stuck in traffic, they might be sacrificing some engines and racking up DNFs along the way.
I think it'll work; I don't think it'll be the next double diffuser. I think we'll see probably three working solutions to the regs of which this will be one.
I have to admit, the sheer variety of solutions with these new rules surprises me every time the cars hit the track.
The Ferrari got me excited and now the Mercedes, I hope the teams go crazy with side pod designs and this isn’t the last different or strange side pod we see.
me to .. i was afraid with the "STRICT" new rules that they would all look more or less the same .. but im really happy i was wrong ... i am curious if a "simple" looking car .. like haas maybe work .. just .. work or of its some other car that just hits the spot right on the money :)
As data is gathered, engineers tend to choose the same solutions. The difference is made by the design philosophy adopted in the beginning of the project and of course the budget
No it won't when the race begins
They knew this would happen last year they released 2 different cars that fit the rules as examples we were told this all last year
Scarbs is still in the Driver61 basement! We need him fed some motor oil, joints lubricated, dressed and ready for Tech Talk at the start of the season.
Here’s hoping he’s not solar powered.
SCARBS BLINK TWICE IF YOU NEED HELP!
@@n00bie96 haha! I’m going to look for coded SOS messages in his technical drawings from here on.
Underrated
That's what attracts me the most in F1.
The different solution for the same problem that different humans are able to pull out reading the same set of instructions! Its just amazing!
I think this is great. It really irks me how many people are trying to argue for this to be banned. I'm a Red Bull fan, I have all the incentive to want this gone, but to me the whole point of F1 is innovation. I hate the mentality of banning everything you don't have, I hate the FIA going along with such demands. As I'd said elsewhere, as long as this is legal and as long as this is safe its an amazing development. Any team who has a problem with it (Red Bull) should focus on their own innovation rather than trying to stop others. Otherwise it becomes little more than a spec series and then what's the point.
Ferrari International Aid like to keep things fair
It should be banned on the ground of driver safety. The driver is extremely exposed to side impacts.
great take man. rarely see this from redbull fans. much appreciated.
@@bastadimasta Man just skipped the entire side impact structure explanation 🗿
@@bastadimasta yeah this is the only thing I can see it getting banned for. They do crash tests I think so I doubt they'd have designed it in such a way that it'd fail them.
I love how they basically recreated the concept of the Gen 1 Formula E cars. Smallest side pod opening possible and have the crash structure as a standalone element.
Does it work? I don't think so
@@hocinesalaheddine6401 Idk I'd trust the research arm of a multi-billion dollar company (who dropped tens or hundreds of millions of dollars designing this car) over some random no one on the internet but that's just me. I suspect they did their homework.
1:50 little correction: the intercooler takes the air coming OUT of the turbo that goes to the intake. Excellent video!!
I’m sure he know that. Probably just a slip up of the words
I love the look of the car without the huge sidepods. Brilliant thinking and with my fav silver back the car is looking gorgeous.
if verstappen wrecks hamilton from the sides hes gonna fly away lol
They look like the intakes of an F4 Phantom. I would assume they work? The car looks beastly! Thanks for your hard work bringing the fun to our uneducated laps!
Looks great, until Max turns up late to a corner in a F-16 😂😂
They worked with a rocket engine manufacturer for the development of this year's car.
Can't have illegal sidepods if you don't have sidepods
Genius!
Ha ha true. I did hear that Ferrari were contesting some other part of the car. I think it was the mirrors
That would be funny if they didn't actually have sidepods.
@@adamozmin8970 it was how the mirrors are essentially tied to the structure, cause you can't use mirrors or any part that is essential for them to keep from falling as any sort of Aero device
@@FaceFish9 ferrari won't win that argument unfortunately and they need to shut the fuck up and focus on their season.
Of course they are legal as all the development CAD drawings were submitted to the FIA
Yeah the title is annoying
ua-cam.com/video/9zUx-104xfE/v-deo.html Brawn himself actually mentions here how it's possible that the FIA considers something legal but a team may interpret it differently and have a valid argument.
So strictly they're not out of the woods yet
@@tobywenman4769 They are legal just because horner whines about them doesn't mean they aren't after all he cried about the merc car being illegal last Qatar Gp despite having no evidence
@@travisfubu9053 sending Max to tamper with the DRS and then say it’s illegal 🤣
Salty Mercedes fans are cringey.
So many solutions for the same problems, it never fails to amaze! Great video again, always very informative. Thanks guys. ✌️😎
Merc submitted their CAD to the FIA, the FIA signed them off as legal so move on people.
doesnt mean much, they might still rule them illegal later like with so many others
@@FaceFish9 that would need a 90% of the grid agreement for the FIA to change the rules. Don't see that happening as half the grid are on Merc engines. Besides Merc would file a lawsuit instantly and refer it to CAS , they have designed their entire car around this sidepod configuration and i am sure they would defend it to the end .................
@@steviecbf 80% and don't think many teams would argue against making their rival slower if FIA itself came in to say "yeah this is bad"
and at the least it would be banned for next year if FIA so wanted, like many other inventions have been.
@@FaceFish9 banning something for the next season has always been done and is fine because you have time to develop different solutions and you can benefit the season of your idea. This 80% Rule is just Bullshit, because it's clear that everyone takes the advantage to slow another team down. So if it comes to a vote, the vote is superfluous.
@@thatsl1ve183 its only 80% when FIA/F1 is thinking the same, otherwise it's 100% of the teams, i'm fairly sure, and i don't think it's bullshit.
mostly cause while yes teams can lobby for changes that slow others, there is also that FIA is usually very slow "taking one season to remove things that should have been removed earlier" and sometimes banning things that were not even against the rules at all instantly.
Great video, loads of images, great explanations by both. Thanks.
I love that they're always pushing the boundaries of what's "legal", asking questions of the new rules, not waiting around staying squarely within them. That's how they get their edge. That's why then win.
(That and having one of the GOAT drivers... lol)
They're working the floor so hard the car is porpoising like crazy
It makes me think the same. Is it a fundamental issue or are they simply sucking the car down harder?
@@tensevo it's an assumption on my part since they weren't porpoising very bad with the previous design. There's a limit built in to how much you can gain from a strong floor because the suspension can only do so much to hold the ground clearance steady under increasing load. But there's probably drag benefits to this concept even if they do have to let a bunch of air out from underneath the floor to stop it from bouncing.
@@TMJ32 the floor look so simple I don't know where the hype is coming from? It is just an eye catching sidepods, no one knows if it works better that other solutions
@@hocinesalaheddine6401 not the complexity just the volume of free air getting to the back of the car over the floor must be quite a bit larger than say the Ferrari where the sidepods come almost right to the edge. It's true we have no idea if this is good or not I'm just watching Mercedes porpoise like a killer whale now when they weren't in Barcelona and I'm speculating that it's due to added downforce from the floor by this new concept.
@@TMJ32 well I m not an expert but in my mind, the ferrari design for example, with the wider sidepods and the shape they have should generate an amount of downforce from there to help the hole process while the merc design relies mostly on the floor, working it harder for downforce and that s why they seem to struggle with porpoising more than others. I guess potentialy the merc can be faster, cause it has less drag but you have to remove that porpoising from the equation. I mean, everytime I was watching the merc down the straights at the testing, or from the onboards hearing the floor hitting the tarmak, I was like "damn that thing must be painfull to drive" xD
I'm a Redbull fan but I really like the look of this design and applaud Mercedes for having a crack at something different. Having said that I hope it doesn't work and Mercedes end up with cooling issues running mid pack but I doubt that will be the case.
Very much looking forward to the first race :)
@3:30 there is a child seat manufacturer called Cybex. We had one each for our children and they have LINEAR SIDE IMPACT PROTECTION (L.S.P.) It’s basically the same thing as the side impact protection. Really good feature.
Everyone rates Adrian Newey, but the real genius of the last decade has got to be James Allison.
Newey is senile at this point and doesn't have the benefits of the true contributers to his success like Patrick Head. He's the sole reason Max has only won one championship. With proper support max would wipe the field (including the geriatric hamilton, alonso and the overhyped russell, sainz, leclerc). Red Bull need to poach superior designers
@@fredflintstone7646 wrong! The only reason Max has a world championship is because of Michael Masi
@@ruledtrendy5066 this
🙏🙌
I see Brits still crying about it
Why worry about cooling when you can crank Brazil 2021 spec engines, replace them every 2 races, and design the car to be able to overtake anything on the field, negating any loss from the grid penalty?
I think they’ve put the parts of rads inside the Venturi tunnel. High pressure air should cool more efficiently
I am pleasantly surprised by the variety of cars this year! So many variations and aero phylosophies
5:30 for the actually legal question! The rest you’ve likely heard!
I'm a massive red bull fan ill say that right out but I'm massively impressed with mercedes interpretation of the rules. I want the das to have stayed and this to stay. Its all about exploring new ideas not trying to ban everyone else. 👌
Dean Rare to find a normal Red Bull/Max fan.
@@titanmode3888 thanks, 👍
those are legal, if it was illegal, other teams would've pulled a Renault on them already.
There is no question over the legality, everything was approved weeks and weeks ago.
Indeed. They followed the same process as they did when they developed DAS. Having the FIA effectively sign it off at various stages saves a lot of uncertainty (albeit not 100%, given teams may still have an outside chance of a successful protest in some way).
F1 is a dog eat dog world, if others make enough noise it may change the FIA mind - it won't be the first time, we have been here before.
It doesn’t matter if it fits in the fia guidelines , if 80% of teams think it goes against the aims of this season it will be taken away
@@garff7557 true, but given more than two teams use Mercedes engines, it’s doubtful this type of vote would succeed. Not completely out the question, but highly unlikely.
@@garff7557 that is incorrect
This channel is better than click bait titles
Can tell you one thing, this thing is gonna be quick in straight line performance, it’s so narrow like a dart and if they get the porpoising sorted and the floor working to produce the downforce, no team will stand a chance
ferrari
@@Bearical forced narrative currently
@@elliotthampton3167 fake news
@@elliotthampton3167 ferrari
@@JayJay-dp8ky i’m with you i wish they challenge for both wdc and wcc but for know there’s no basis for it
I was just wondering; maybe merc pondered about last year and decided to make a car especially reliable for wheel to wheel combat.
Pretty interesting! Another great snippet to watch. Usually intercoolers are used after compression to cool the air entering the engine... is it different in F1? 🤔
The problem I see for a smaller air intake is when its behind a car that it can't pass its temp will then rise, same with if you have a safety car for three or more laps at low speed when the air intake will be drastically reduced.
After a lengthy analysis I figured out what the side pods are for...
They are for cooling. Genius.
Air going into the engine is cooled by an AFTERCOOLER. An 'intercooler' is found between two-stage (back to back) superchargers that are only found on high altitude piston aircraft engines. In that installation rhere would usually be an aftercooler fitted too.
Scott's haircut - inspired by the new Merc sidepods
The crash structure / mirror mount shape may come into question. There is a rule for suspension components such a wishbones that say they have to have similar profiles top and bottom to have a net zero aerodynamic effect. Not sure if something similar would apply to this mirror mount. I wonder how much the Mercedes car will gain in performance from the body and sidepod profiles. It could potentially create more downforce while also generating lower drag. We'll see soon enough!!
See you guys in 7 years. Adiós.
Wahhhh cry me a river
What?
Yeah, about that..
Could this be part of the reason for the front wing design with the slim profile close to the nose it would help with the airflow straight into the new side pod.
I like the way Mercedes’ keeps you guessing.
3:39 Lol Scarbs talking about how they safely crumple up, and then there's that sim of the cockpit getting absolutely sandwiched
@1:49 Cooling the air coming OUT of the turbo prior to going INTO the intake. Thus, "charge cooler" the charged air is cooled.
About these vertical sidepod entries: I got reminded of the Jordan 196 who seemed to follow a similar boundary layer philosophy.
Red Bull fan here but you can’t beat innovation. Something F1 has been missing for years
Always good to hear Scarb's input, but would you be able to get him to record his audio separately on his end as well as from the video call too?
Weird I looked for your channel to tell you how to do audio and I couldn't find it.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING I can find to complain about with Mercedes, I do, and will.. This is brilliant, 👏
If this does turn out to be a great idea, I think Williams and Mclaren are probably best poised to adopt it as well. Bothe of those teams already have really small sidepods, williams especially with that hole that goes all the way through.
No they won't, I think the side pod part of the chassis has to pass side impact tests and are then locked in for the season so other teams can't change it. Furthermore the W13 was designed to have slimmer sidepods meaning the middle of the car, coke bottle, the rear wings and diffuser are optimized to work with it. Other teams might have a completely different aero philosophy with bulky sidepods in mind and so it may not work just as well. Maybe if this doesn't get banned we'll surely see this next year and if the regs are stable then this may become the norm.
But no team will suddenly began to use it. It'll cost too much resources to get it to work properly (if it even does) and by that time it all may be for nothing so they'll mostly try and getting it banned, that's the F1 way.
@@khawajabasit977 sidepods are not part of the crash structure.
@@AdhamHossam165 They are part of the side impact structure as the side impact structure is packaged into the sidepods so if you change the sidepods most likely you have to redesign the crash impact structure and the monocoque which I don't think is allowed once the season begins I could be wrong of course but even if they're allowed you'd have to spent considerable resources which as I said earlier isn't worth while.
@@khawajabasit977 the video shows the impact structure and the sidepods cover the cones that are coming out of it.
@@AdhamHossam165 Look man side impact structure cones are not tied at one end and hanging freely on the other its bad engineering if you want the device to support a significant load. They cones are tied to the monocoque at one end and the side pod wall on the other.
Even in the W13's small pods design the crash structure would probably be more inwards with the protruding wing housing and securing the second end of the cone as the winglet is claimed to be part of the side pod in order for it to be legal Kyle engineering did a great video on W13's sidepod legality issue go check it out for further detail.
i wonder if these side pods will be used for high speed tracks like spa and monza where cooling isnt an issue but drag is.
and the other side pods will be used for low speed or high heat tracks like monaco or maysla
They would penalize because it would be a different chassis. It isn't just bodywork.
Guys, you missed a very important point. CCS. Or Chemical cooling system. That's what allow Merc to runs such small pods...
I don't see much wrong with the sidepods. But Mercedes does seem to be abusing the side inpact crash structure/rear view mirror assembly for aerodynamic gains.
This is true, but there’s nothing in the rules to prevent it. Ferrari did fall foul of the rules with their mirrors early in the Halo era, but there was a specific stipulation in the rules preventing additional aero-specific structures in that area.
yeash the mirrors might be banned area but that shouldn't hamper merc too much
Merc keep on popping out new tech. Horner thought he the only one 🤣 😂 🤔 💀
That exposed crashstructure looks pretty fragile if you were to hit it from any direction but square on. They are probably made for it, but still looks like it could snap off sideways in any decent crash.
1:51 (minor point): the intercooler (or charge air coolers) cool the compressed air EXITING the turbochargers...
I was sceptical when I first saw it. Especially when looking at mercs history of exploiting loopholes. But this looks exactly like like what we all hoped for: a more diverse field with different solutions
Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
Scarbs is the 🐐
2:43 RedBull team - Why didn't we think of that??? Hahahahaaa
2:08 I hope that it was intentional when you put Scarbs' joke drawing of a central heating radiator on the sidepod in your video lol
To me it looks like the actual size/area of the inlet is the same as red bull and Ferrari. It is just located at the bottom like a big rubbish scoop. Can't wait to see what happens the first time it hits a gravel trap.
when I first saw the initial big Merc sidepod, it didn't look right immediately, the sharp corner, and overall it looked like a minimal effort mockup, so perhaps the "B" version wasn't actually ready for the first tests, or they tried to hide the solution as much as possible
Active radiators. Using the flow through the radiators to change the balance on the floor.
Very 90’s looking car. Must say I do like this look
They are going Legier!
Is it possible that the internal parts were already in place in Spain and this is just the body work that fits it more closely ?
Mercedes’ always innovative always pushing boundaries and other teams complain just because they didn’t come up with it.
...or just cheating their asses off like the past 7 years.....just NEVER got caught....That is the most likely explanation.....
@@ruppert5134 that's the best copium answer ever
JP Racing aka Red Bull.
@@Sevastous You sure?
this age so fast
1:45 doesn't the intercooler cool air that is exiting the turbo before it enters the engine?
I'm not putting too much worry into this, to me this more looks like a "how small can we make the inlet" test. This also means that they are confident that they have good performance already.
And Russel fighting the car - it can be a way to try out the limits and learn the car - push the car over the limits just to figure out how hard it can be pushed. Better to do that during testing than during racing.
Scarbs is the man…..
Reminds me of the 1996 Jordan
The intercooler cools the air that comes OUT of the turbo(compressor). :-) Love the vids me being a techpetrolhead :-))
Simple terms - "charge-air-cooler". Easier to understand if not at "petrolhead" status ;)
@@DS-md7mz True !! haha
Does this standout from the rest for good?
I’m surprised no one has tried to do this before
Stealth Pods!
The Cuttlefish design forms a natural flow...
The side pods are legal, however it is the mounting design of the mirrors may not be as they are aero dynamic which is not allowed.
What are those grill-type things that are sometimes next to the front or rear tyres? For example at 0:13.
WHAT IS THE SPRING ON THE FRONT OF THE “T-TRAY” ON THE HAAS????
I would like to ask scarbs, why F1 teams do not use gills style for the intake air to the sidepods ?
Because efficiency, F1 car needs huge amounts of air to cool.
4:56
Heyyy, that's my car!
The sidepods may, but I doubt they are able to keep how the mirrors are mounted because I am pretty sure that Mirror Mounts are not to be a part of your aero-design
Intercoolers cool ge air coming OUT of the turbos... or do they cool both sides of the turbo? 1:48
I guess Gordon Murray would like the shape of these sidepods - looks a bit like early 70s Brabham
Mattia Binotto knows very well the Mercedes mirrors are illegal. Ferrari tried halo mounted mirrors at the Barcelona GP in 2018, with non-structural winglets integrated into the design. The FIA made them change them after one race. They were ruled non compliant, because mirrors are not supposed to be aero appendages. I doubt turning the SIPS into a huge canard will be allowed, either. No problem with the side pods, though.
Shouldn't the question be: what is better for racing, F1 specifically? I've been an F1 race fan since 1976 when we lived in Los Angeles (born and raised, city, not county) and my dad took my brother and I to the Long Beach F1 when we were 10 years old. I was hooked for good. Built plastic models of the fantastic cars like the JPS Lotus 79 ground effects car, the 6-wheeled Elf/Tyrrell, Honda's 65 Mexican GP winner etc. I love it. The rule changes have been so many over the years it's amazing.
I know that some drivers are better than others, especially at different style tracks and given weather conditions, so I always want the best driver to win- I don't pull for one manufacturer, one team, one nationality, I pull for whom I believe to have shown the most skills.
And when one car continually is the fastest, it shows me that obviously it's a better car- I'd bet my life savings on that if you switch to another driver in the fastest/best car, that driver would start to win.
Should F1 be like the SRX and attempt to have the same cars? For anyone like me whose built/driven cars, you know the answer is that it would be almost impossible to build 20 cars that have the exact same driving characteristics, so not a good idea either, I see how tough the problem for F1 is!
Correction, an intercooler cools down the air which has been compressed by the turbo before it enters the engine.
Ferrari told they considered going the merc way but dropped it bcoz this concept is radical.
Yes
Given that they are trying to slim down the body, i'm wondering why no one hasn't tried a narrow angle V6 to package it better, maybe even a VR6 like those 90s VW
Illegal
are that rear defuser is really work for further push the car or its just drag car more down to ground, please explain, bcz car is reallt getting more stick to ground and vible.... pls answer...
Stupid question but have the teams been able to track these cars on their own tracks before actual official testing? Or is it just simulations up until Barcelona?
Waiting for answer also
It's basically nothing but simulations until the first pre-season test, in this case barcelona.
Most teams had short track-days as part of their launch-festivities, but thats really more for the press than anything else. Not much to be learned in terms of performance as the cars are not driven in any kind of anger.
They get a very small amount of track time at their "local" tracks, but laps are very limited & they're not allowed to run at high speeds.
They’re allowed to do a brief “shakedown” pre-testing, behind closed doors, at a venue of their choosing. Pirelli provide the teams with a special compound of tyres for the event and it’s restricted to 100km max. It’s basically to ensure there’s no glaring issues with the car prior to the main testing days.
Most of the photos you will have seen of the 2022 cars on track during their launch events will be from their shakedown session.
The other question is will it be legal in the future? Teams can get an 80 percent vote in to change the wording and it seems brawn wasn't expecting this
Yup legal and super clever
As far as I know sidepods need to have minimum dimensions, if it meets those dimension good luck with it to them. I wonder if it provides enough cooling but then, I have 0 knowledge about racecars.
I might becoma a merc fan. Simply genius engineering
troeteimarch Mercedes doesn’t need fake fans
@@titanmode3888 xD so a real fan only choses once in his lifetime? well, I'm from Germany. Therefor I'm born more Mercedes than you could ever be :D stfu
@@troeteimarsch Mercedes’ is a British team sponsored by a German car company
@@tonicdb nope Mercedes is Mercedes is Mercedes.
It looks like a cross between a Jordan 191 and a slug. I hope it's faster!
The huge wings on the mirrors... No worries... Driver61, please drop the bias, dude!
What does scarbs do as a job ? Is he full time on Driver61 ?
He’s not full-time on here. He’s a freelance journalist and technical illustrator, primarily focusing on F1.
"nothing to see here"
lol
if this season is half as entertaining as 2012 Im happy
Max looking good