I find the shopsmith is perfect as a retirement or hobby machine. Time is money and if it factors into an income generator then at the speed I work at perhaps stand alones might shave time. Your video on change overs prove that it can be done. The savings are an eye opener! Good video.
Very interesting. I know it's not a fair comparison to factor in the used market but when I think about the fact that I purchased a used Mark V for $500 and have managed to add all the SPT's that Shopsmith made hand have not spent over $200 on any of them, I'm pretty happy with my little woodshop.
I agree. I got a used MarkV, Model 510, about a year ago, for $700, including a band saw. It's taken only minimal fixing to get running nicely and has worked its way through multiple operations now on my massive 46' bookshelf project (for an idea of what that entails, it's most of 16 4'x8' sheets of plywood). It did all the cutting beyond initial breakdown, 6 dados on 16 uprights and 12 on 8 more, and jointed all the edges, including 46' of tops and bottoms and 84 32" shelves (on the conical disc sander). Didn't even break a sweat.
I love your thorough breakdown and comparison. Some might argue for the big box store stand alone tools as a comparison, but those don't really compare in heft, quality, or features. The SS is truly a great tool, and I have no intention of ever letting mine go, except in my will. Blessings, Glen
Tom, that was a most excellent comparison…. If you throw in the additional tasks the Shopsmith can do… drum sanding, variable speed drive for a plethora of accessories, ripping 4’X8’ stock against a fence, portable with just a tap on the caster locks and a shove, storage & usage footprint smaller than a good workbench, etc… the arguments for spending the extra money become very, VERY weak!
I can’t think of a better sales pitch to the significant other LOL actually I have 2 510’s and 2 bandsaws and one each of the planner, jointer, both belt sanders, and scroll saw. All for less than $3k.
One thing to consider is the space requirements for the standalone tools compared to the Shopsmith. Even a Mark 7 with whatever extra square footage you need to store accessories/parts/tools will take up far less space.
Yeah, how many more ft2 do you need to add a piece of equipment. Perhaps you need to include the volume of air for the environment. And the cost of conditioning the air; heat, humidity, etc. It all adds up.
Another great comparison Tom. I think cast iron tables are preferrable to the many cheap alternatives that have been tried, but the Shopsmith aluminum tables are just as flat and rigid as cast iron, and I think the 510 and up grooved tables are better than flat cast iron. Shopsmith clearly falls short on routing. A stand-alone router is more usual, and much easier to use manually. I'm too old to pick up a Shopsmith headstock and use it as a trim router ;)
Great comparison. And let's not overlook one of Shopsmith's biggest advantages. The typical homeowner/hobbyist typically does a limited number of projects a year. Owning all of those machines would fill up their entire garage year round. My Shopsmith performs the function so all those machines, but only takes up the space of a bicycle.
Some power tools that only do one modality, like a table saw, don’t do it well. The Shop Smith as you have demonstrated has multiple modalities using one motor and speed control unit and does them all very well. I’ve only been watching your channel for a few months and learned quite a bit about the Shop Smith product. Now that I’m some years into woodworking I’m wondering why I never considered the Shop Smith product.
So true! I think some people might be turned off from considering Shopsmith as an option because they hear from another woodworker an opinion of how terrible it is. I hope to add some facts to that conversation.
Nice breakdown. That Bosch router is pretty good - I bought it as an upgrade from an 80's Porter Cable router my dad gave me. I"m surprised that no manual/education was included - mine came with a detailed manual.
I look at what Bosch had online. It was all sort of legal boiler plate and assembly instructions. But maybe good to hear they toss a better one in the box!
Regarding the Nova lathe with the rotating head for "outboard turning": You can fudge it with the Shopsmith somewhat, because you can remove the tailstock and just slide the power unit all the way to the end, extend the quill and turn "outboard" past the legs. I've done it. It's not technically the same, but it works the same. 😉 So giving ShopSmith a zero there isn't totally fair.
I think you were more than fair with your cost analysis. Leaning a bit to being over generous to the stand alones. What about rent? I would put a value on the real estate the tools take up. Even bench top versions take up room. And the power and variable speed for all the tools and for some the reverse, is hard to put a price on The overhead router has proven real handy. There was a particular project that the handheld or the table would't work. I needed a large bit that had to slowed down less than 10,000 rpm anyway. Thanks Tom. Time to finish your char.😁
Hey Tom i really love these fair and objective videos advocating for the shopsmith system! I just wanted to share an anecdote- i acquired the most expensive heavy duty 18” heavy duty drill press fromHF sometime before getting my shopsmith (which i picked up second hand for a fraction of the retail price). I recently dumped this machine just to make more room and now ive relied on SS and i have to say the SS is just way more precise! Thats before i credit the awesome digital speed control thanks to the powerPro headstock I subsequently upgraded to. Yeah the lathe can be beat by a dedicated heavier lathe but as you very fairly point out thats going to bust the budget compared to shopsmith and main reason i just dont have the room for it!
Enjoying your channel and considering a future purchase of a Shopsmith. However... Looking at reviews online, the major thing that holds me back is the poor customer service. If the company stands behind its product, I can live with defects and issues. The common refrain from Shopsmith owners is the length of time it takes to get an answer-back. Or if an answer comes, it's the customers' fault, not theirs. I understand you are a UA-cam creator and have a relationship with SS, and likely to receive better service than the rest of us. Wondering if you could address this issue in a future video, or if I am reading the situation wrong?
Thanks Bert. I agree Shopsmith has a reputation for slow service. I have experienced it myself. I have no official relationship with Shopsmith other than as a customer. I get nothing free or discounted and the only contact I have with them is when I order something from them, usually via the website. That being said, I know they are aware of my channel, however no one from the corporate office has ever commented on any of my videos. But, could it be that I get special treatment? I don't honestly know. There is a risk of having a problem and then it taking a long time to sort it out. But, I think that is on-par with the experiences I have had from other companies including Woodcraft, Worx, Timberwolf blades, Wen, etc. In this day and age unfortunately you are playing quality roulette and then if getting a bad batch you have to be persistent jerk with customer service to resolve it. The only tool outfit I have not been disappointed in in recent years is Lee Valley, but maybe I just got lucky so far.
I am not a SS hater but you do need to understand its limitations if you want to buy one. Most guys that don’t like them are pretty serious about their woodworking and want heavier machines made with cast iron and want larger capacities for medium to larger projects. The SS lends it self to small spaces and mostly smaller projects. You could do some big projects on the SS but not as easily. You can get a SS used for not much money which could be a good bargain depending on what you are building. A new machine is very expensive for what you get. I can’t see the value as being in the new machine unless you just don’t have space. If you have space separates are a better option. I have used a SS and have separate machines. You can get good new cast iron separate machines for the cost of a new SS with some needed options such as the jointer and bandsaw. You will need more space but not as much as you think. If you love the SS use it and have fun. I have bought a number of great old cast iron machines at low prices which is another good option if you have some extra room. A combination of a used SS with some older separates would work too. Happy cutting.
Any project needs an assembly table. If you have an assembly table you can build it a table saw and router and knock out 3 of the seven tools and have a way better table saw you can tilt blade on. Horizontal bore is a dowel jig for the drill you already have. Separate drill press keeps metal shavings out of your shopsmith, the lathe on the shopsmith is way to low and table saw way to high, so those dangerous tools are at the wrong height for most. Sanding disk is great, but there are so many ways to sand and you need a lot of disks if you need more then one grit. I can fit all the tools in a shipsmith on my assembly bench with a planer and dust collection except the drill press that I mounted to the wall just above the height of the bench, and I get a bench out of the deal.
A shaper is like a heavy duty router, in a way. It does some of the same jobs. The Jointer and Planner are optional tools that are not included when you buy a Shopsmith Mark 7.
@@matthewanacleto7885 the jointer is only 4” which sucks if you make anything besides face frames, table legs and use sheet goods. Panels look really cheap with 4 inch material, so you really want a 6”. It’s also big and heavy and takes almost the same space to store as a separate jointer unless you have some trick mounting solution you can manage and have strength for. Works great if you are a plywood guy though as you can leave it on in table saw mode. The planer is a joke. It takes up the same space as the dewalt and does about the same quality. The dewalt is basically the same price and has everything built in and you can upgrade it, so pass on the shopsmith planer. It’s a dud except for loyalists.
Only issue is that your ratings chart is not accurate. Table saw does not need variable speeds, giving the Bible that comes with Shopsmith is useless as nobody reads the whole thing and it is not that hard to operate a table saw. I turn lots and Shopsmith does not have the ease of adjustability that real lathe has, especially when turning pens or small objects unless you buy expensive add on tool rest. Do not need boring machine if you have a good drill press and lathe, shaper tool and router are no where near comparable to handheld routers or router tables. Many variable speed 12 sanders are under $1000, HP and RPM are not comparable as you only need so much power and speed to sand wood. Shopsmith is a good all in one tool but having both an older shopsmith and stand alone tools I barely ever use my shopsmith for anything else other than roughing out a shape one the lathe of large pieces I am unsure of as I do not care if it breaks. So if you cannot buy a great table saw, lathe, router and drill press for less than $5000 you need to keep shopping.
Very true if you don’t need the tools there is no point in buying them. But I do need the tools and make great use of them including the variable speed feature and the horizontal boring.
But you have a shit table saw that can’t cut angle cuts really safely and quickly….and can’t work with a proper out feed table because you adjust the table height… and it’s just way to high…. And a lathe that is mounted way to low. And the horizontal bore machine is not very useful given a dowel jig is cheap. And the separate tools will save you so much time on setups. Shopsmith is great for a 1 car garage….. And your comment on the Detailed shape routing is way off….. Shopsmith is actually better as shaping blades work better smiling slower with more torque. It’s a great Drillpress for few hundred bucks used which is the only thing I still use it for after replacing every other function on the tool with cheap replacements that work better. Contractor saw in an assembly table is better. Screw the horizontal bore. Shaper/router better in your assembly table as well. Anyone who likes a lathe will prefer a real one with indexing, a chuck that is vacuum compatible, so shopsmith is just an in case solution. Tool rest sucks. Drill press makes sense if you mount it to wall as that is the only thing it really is good at so you toss the base and loose all the other functions because the shopsmith is to big as only a drill press with the stand. You will figure this all out in time.
Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with your Shopsmith. In my experience, I've not encountered those particular problems. I used a husky adjustable height workbench. It the perfect indeed and outfeed table for the table saw and all of the attachments.
@@woodshopnerdery maybe if you only cut plywood and panels. If you drop your table saw to actually use your 10 inch blade, you will hit the out feed table. Set up for that height, now it is a few inches too low for sheet goods. Now cut a 45 or 22 for a nice table top edge without killing your self. Try making pattern plywood blanks on a shopsmith without being murdered by it. It works if you don’t do anything outside of what it can do.
Please drop your list of tools in the comments!
I find the shopsmith is perfect as a retirement or hobby machine. Time is money and if it factors into an income generator then at the speed I work at perhaps stand alones might shave time. Your video on change overs prove that it can be done. The savings are an eye opener! Good video.
Thanks James!
Absolutely a very well done. Good on yuh.👍👍
Very interesting. I know it's not a fair comparison to factor in the used market but when I think about the fact that I purchased a used Mark V for $500 and have managed to add all the SPT's that Shopsmith made hand have not spent over $200 on any of them, I'm pretty happy with my little woodshop.
I think it’s fair to add used tools into the decision process. If you have the wherewithal to maintain it, why not.
I agree. I got a used MarkV, Model 510, about a year ago, for $700, including a band saw. It's taken only minimal fixing to get running nicely and has worked its way through multiple operations now on my massive 46' bookshelf project (for an idea of what that entails, it's most of 16 4'x8' sheets of plywood). It did all the cutting beyond initial breakdown, 6 dados on 16 uprights and 12 on 8 more, and jointed all the edges, including 46' of tops and bottoms and 84 32" shelves (on the conical disc sander). Didn't even break a sweat.
@@michaelarighi5268 you’re right Michael, the Shopsmith can do it!
Very nice job Tom, I look forward to reading the responses from the viewers.
You and me both!
I love your thorough breakdown and comparison. Some might argue for the big box store stand alone tools as a comparison, but those don't really compare in heft, quality, or features. The SS is truly a great tool, and I have no intention of ever letting mine go, except in my will. Blessings, Glen
Thanks Glen!
Tom, that was a most excellent comparison….
If you throw in the additional tasks the Shopsmith can do… drum sanding, variable speed drive for a plethora of accessories, ripping 4’X8’ stock against a fence, portable with just a tap on the caster locks and a shove, storage & usage footprint smaller than a good workbench, etc… the arguments for spending the extra money become very, VERY weak!
You’re right I didn’t even touch on all the drill press feature that are superior due to the better lateral support, like drum sanding.
I can’t think of a better sales pitch to the significant other LOL
actually I have 2 510’s and 2 bandsaws and one each of the planner, jointer, both belt sanders, and scroll saw.
All for less than $3k.
You, sir, are a wealthy man! 🤓
That’s a great deal Gregory!
Great comparison, and just out of curiosity, how about a square footage comparison?
One thing to consider is the space requirements for the standalone tools compared to the Shopsmith. Even a Mark 7 with whatever extra square footage you need to store accessories/parts/tools will take up far less space.
Very true, great point.
Yeah, how many more ft2 do you need to add a piece of equipment. Perhaps you need to include the volume of air for the environment. And the cost of conditioning the air; heat, humidity, etc. It all adds up.
Another great comparison Tom. I think cast iron tables are preferrable to the many cheap alternatives that have been tried, but the Shopsmith aluminum tables are just as flat and rigid as cast iron, and I think the 510 and up grooved tables are better than flat cast iron. Shopsmith clearly falls short on routing. A stand-alone router is more usual, and much easier to use manually. I'm too old to pick up a Shopsmith headstock and use it as a trim router ;)
You’re right, the tables are pretty good. And they need to be aluminum for portability.
Great comparison. And let's not overlook one of Shopsmith's biggest advantages. The typical homeowner/hobbyist typically does a limited number of projects a year. Owning all of those machines would fill up their entire garage year round. My Shopsmith performs the function so all those machines, but only takes up the space of a bicycle.
Yes space savings is a huge advantage!
Some power tools that only do one modality, like a table saw, don’t do it well. The Shop Smith as you have demonstrated has multiple modalities using one motor and speed control unit and does them all very well. I’ve only been watching your channel for a few months and learned quite a bit about the Shop Smith product. Now that I’m some years into woodworking I’m wondering why I never considered the Shop Smith product.
So true! I think some people might be turned off from considering Shopsmith as an option because they hear from another woodworker an opinion of how terrible it is. I hope to add some facts to that conversation.
Nice breakdown. That Bosch router is pretty good - I bought it as an upgrade from an 80's Porter Cable router my dad gave me. I"m surprised that no manual/education was included - mine came with a detailed manual.
I look at what Bosch had online. It was all sort of legal boiler plate and assembly instructions. But maybe good to hear they toss a better one in the box!
@@woodshopnerdery I hope so - the manual I got was pretty good. Weird.
@@Erik_The_Viking you got me thinking that I may have looked at the wrong manual!
Regarding the Nova lathe with the rotating head for "outboard turning": You can fudge it with the Shopsmith somewhat, because you can remove the tailstock and just slide the power unit all the way to the end, extend the quill and turn "outboard" past the legs. I've done it. It's not technically the same, but it works the same. 😉
So giving ShopSmith a zero there isn't totally fair.
Good point!
I think you were more than fair with your cost analysis. Leaning a bit to being over generous to the stand alones. What about rent? I would put a value on the real estate the tools take up. Even bench top versions take up room. And the power and variable speed for all the tools and for some the reverse, is hard to put a price on
The overhead router has proven real handy. There was a particular project that the handheld or the table would't work. I needed a large bit that had to slowed down less than 10,000 rpm anyway. Thanks Tom. Time to finish your char.😁
Thanks Daniel, good points. I am working on the chair and making some good progress.
Hey Tom i really love these fair and objective videos advocating for the shopsmith system! I just wanted to share an anecdote- i acquired the most expensive heavy duty 18” heavy duty drill press fromHF sometime before getting my shopsmith (which i picked up second hand for a fraction of the retail price). I recently dumped this machine just to make more room and now ive relied on SS and i have to say the SS is just way more precise! Thats before i credit the awesome digital speed control thanks to the powerPro headstock I subsequently upgraded to. Yeah the lathe can be beat by a dedicated heavier lathe but as you very fairly point out thats going to bust the budget compared to shopsmith and main reason i just dont have the room for it!
Thanks for sharing the story Todd!
Thanks for focusing all your nerdery on this, Tom.
My pleasure!
Enjoying your channel and considering a future purchase of a Shopsmith. However... Looking at reviews online, the major thing that holds me back is the poor customer service. If the company stands behind its product, I can live with defects and issues. The common refrain from Shopsmith owners is the length of time it takes to get an answer-back. Or if an answer comes, it's the customers' fault, not theirs. I understand you are a UA-cam creator and have a relationship with SS, and likely to receive better service than the rest of us. Wondering if you could address this issue in a future video, or if I am reading the situation wrong?
Thanks Bert. I agree Shopsmith has a reputation for slow service. I have experienced it myself. I have no official relationship with Shopsmith other than as a customer. I get nothing free or discounted and the only contact I have with them is when I order something from them, usually via the website. That being said, I know they are aware of my channel, however no one from the corporate office has ever commented on any of my videos. But, could it be that I get special treatment? I don't honestly know.
There is a risk of having a problem and then it taking a long time to sort it out. But, I think that is on-par with the experiences I have had from other companies including Woodcraft, Worx, Timberwolf blades, Wen, etc. In this day and age unfortunately you are playing quality roulette and then if getting a bad batch you have to be persistent jerk with customer service to resolve it. The only tool outfit I have not been disappointed in in recent years is Lee Valley, but maybe I just got lucky so far.
WELL DONE!!
Thanks Mike!
I am not a SS hater but you do need to understand its limitations if you want to buy one. Most guys that don’t like them are pretty serious about their woodworking and want heavier machines made with cast iron and want larger capacities for medium to larger projects. The SS lends it self to small spaces and mostly smaller projects. You could do some big projects on the SS but not as easily. You can get a SS used for not much money which could be a good bargain depending on what you are building. A new machine is very expensive for what you get. I can’t see the value as being in the new machine unless you just don’t have space. If you have space separates are a better option. I have used a SS and have separate machines. You can get good new cast iron separate machines for the cost of a new SS with some needed options such as the jointer and bandsaw. You will need more space but not as much as you think. If you love the SS use it and have fun. I have bought a number of great old cast iron machines at low prices which is another good option if you have some extra room. A combination of a used SS with some older separates would work too. Happy cutting.
Any project needs an assembly table. If you have an assembly table you can build it a table saw and router and knock out 3 of the seven tools and have a way better table saw you can tilt blade on. Horizontal bore is a dowel jig for the drill you already have. Separate drill press keeps metal shavings out of your shopsmith, the lathe on the shopsmith is way to low and table saw way to high, so those dangerous tools are at the wrong height for most. Sanding disk is great, but there are so many ways to sand and you need a lot of disks if you need more then one grit.
I can fit all the tools in a shipsmith on my assembly bench with a planer and dust collection except the drill press that I mounted to the wall just above the height of the bench, and I get a bench out of the deal.
😅
What's a Shaper? Why no Jointer or Planner?
A shaper is like a heavy duty router, in a way. It does some of the same jobs. The Jointer and Planner are optional tools that are not included when you buy a Shopsmith Mark 7.
@@woodshopnerdery Thanks man
@@matthewanacleto7885 the jointer is only 4” which sucks if you make anything besides face frames, table legs and use sheet goods. Panels look really cheap with 4 inch material, so you really want a 6”. It’s also big and heavy and takes almost the same space to store as a separate jointer unless you have some trick mounting solution you can manage and have strength for. Works great if you are a plywood guy though as you can leave it on in table saw mode.
The planer is a joke. It takes up the same space as the dewalt and does about the same quality. The dewalt is basically the same price and has everything built in and you can upgrade it, so pass on the shopsmith planer. It’s a dud except for loyalists.
Only issue is that your ratings chart is not accurate. Table saw does not need variable speeds, giving the Bible that comes with Shopsmith is useless as nobody reads the whole thing and it is not that hard to operate a table saw. I turn lots and Shopsmith does not have the ease of adjustability that real lathe has, especially when turning pens or small objects unless you buy expensive add on tool rest. Do not need boring machine if you have a good drill press and lathe, shaper tool and router are no where near comparable to handheld routers or router tables. Many variable speed 12 sanders are under $1000, HP and RPM are not comparable as you only need so much power and speed to sand wood. Shopsmith is a good all in one tool but having both an older shopsmith and stand alone tools I barely ever use my shopsmith for anything else other than roughing out a shape one the lathe of large pieces I am unsure of as I do not care if it breaks. So if you cannot buy a great table saw, lathe, router and drill press for less than $5000 you need to keep shopping.
Very true if you don’t need the tools there is no point in buying them. But I do need the tools and make great use of them including the variable speed feature and the horizontal boring.
But you have a shit table saw that can’t cut angle cuts really safely and quickly….and can’t work with a proper out feed table because you adjust the table height… and it’s just way to high…. And a lathe that is mounted way to low. And the horizontal bore machine is not very useful given a dowel jig is cheap. And the separate tools will save you so much time on setups. Shopsmith is great for a 1 car garage…..
And your comment on the Detailed shape routing is way off….. Shopsmith is actually better as shaping blades work better smiling slower with more torque.
It’s a great Drillpress for few hundred bucks used which is the only thing I still use it for after replacing every other function on the tool with cheap replacements that work better.
Contractor saw in an assembly table is better.
Screw the horizontal bore.
Shaper/router better in your assembly table as well.
Anyone who likes a lathe will prefer a real one with indexing, a chuck that is vacuum compatible, so shopsmith is just an in case solution. Tool rest sucks.
Drill press makes sense if you mount it to wall as that is the only thing it really is good at so you toss the base and loose all the other functions because the shopsmith is to big as only a drill press with the stand.
You will figure this all out in time.
Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with your Shopsmith. In my experience, I've not encountered those particular problems. I used a husky adjustable height workbench. It the perfect indeed and outfeed table for the table saw and all of the attachments.
@@woodshopnerdery maybe if you only cut plywood and panels. If you drop your table saw to actually use your 10 inch blade, you will hit the out feed table. Set up for that height, now it is a few inches too low for sheet goods. Now cut a 45 or 22 for a nice table top edge without killing your self. Try making pattern plywood blanks on a shopsmith without being murdered by it. It works if you don’t do anything outside of what it can do.
first
Eleventh!