Good tip about only engaging “B” regen mode when required. I used to put my e-C4 in “B” by default but this actually decreased efficiency as the car would not coast and if you lifted off the accelerator even slightly it would slow down and of course it takes a lot more energy to regain the lost speed than you gain from the regen.
Picked up my '23 ShinePlus ec4 yesterday and spent an hour or two getting used to my first electric vehicle. I live in the Scottish borders and yesterday temp averaged about 4c most of the day. Looking at range driven V fuel guage I reckoned I had a total range yesterday in the region of 170 - 180 miles in normal mode. I was driving on mixed town, A roads and dual carriage way, testing cruise control and manual experience, throttle responses and building confidence in overtaking etc. Very good first impression which alleviated almost all my novice anxieties around range and I'm sure I'll be able to drive better once I'm a bit more comfortable and get to grips with the regen. This video couldn't have come at a better time, so cheers for that. The test today will be a 120m round trip visiting relatives in Fife. Keep up the good work. Your output is very easy to understand and helpful. I'd be interested on how you feel EV's perform on snowy or icy roads. Is the extra weight a benefit or a hindrance, or is it a nothing issue? Alistair
EVs are generally considerably better than ICE vehicles in snow and ice due to the speed an electric motor can react to commands from the traction control system.
My Hyundai Ioniq 28 has been particularly impressive on snow I must say. Better than my previous petrol car. The steering, the slightly extra weight, but more importantly the regenerative breaking instead of regular brakes have turned out to improve the overall stability while driving on snow.
@adarshaaryal3527 it's been good overall. I worried about range in winter, felt insecure about driving style etc. Now, as we approach winter again, I'm much more confident and relaxed. A home charger took away most of the worry instantly and I now understand and have confidence in my ability to predict the economy I'll achieve on any one journey. Electric driving is a joy, - peaceful and relaxing in general. The cost benefits are great. I'm saving about £200 a month on fuel. I'm very happy.
Good video again Matt, nice to see basic real-world driving experience. My C4 diesel is just the same, where the computer can't keep up with sudden commands (11:26, reversing). Still looking for a good-priced electric version to suit my budget. Keep the info flowing 👍🏻
Glad you show warts and all, even to leaving the boot ajar! 😅 Fyi the music came in a bit loud, fortunately I was watching on my TV so could turn it down ok. 4.7 not too shabby for an EV that's not a classic Ioniq. Still not persuaded away from them although I did see the new Peugeot has an estate version...👀
When taking about the B-mode you still know that they brake pedal acts as a dynamic degeneration control? It is the most safe (brake lights lit up) and effective way to drive in towns. Would use B-mode only when going downhill and it is very steep.
Best in my ec4 winter would be in high fours too, mostly on eco. Normally I'd be using heater and on mixed town, country and motorway giving 4.1 which I'm happy with. First disappointment was when I got car last January. At 3am, on airport run when below 0⁰, five up, five suitcases heat and demist on 74.5 MPH (RoI) and my 215 miles at start dropped to 75 miles after 75 mile journey 😬 Only do that run once a year thankfully *edit* a bigger disappointment that rainy night was the car getting dirty for first time😂
Hi Matt, Have you ever thought about testing a newer 50kw eBerlingo or equivalent? Now they're 3 years old, they are getting more affordable for those of us who like to own our car? Like your practical approach to testing. Cheers.
While my eC4 indicates similar mls/kwh, I find it is indicating about 10% higher than the actual figure. See how many kwh it takes to recharge the battery to the percentage it was at the start of your journey and divide this figure into the mileage travelled. I bet you haven't achieved 4.7 mls/kwh now. Great videos keep up the good work.
I thought that initially, as coming straight from an Ioniq. But you soon get used to a different driving style and I can't say I hugely miss it. If I had to choose between an Ioniq 38kWh or a Citroen e-C4, I'd take to the e-C4 for the comfort, HUD and higher ride & seat height.
I'm starting to think that normal / D-mode driving may be safer in some circumstances compared to B-mode (or regen mode 1 or 2) just simply because it forces you to use the brakes when decelelerating. That way, the car behind gets warning about you slowing down. Special one-pedal driving modes are different however as they tend to be designed to activate the brake lights when the deceleration hits a specific G value.
@@decimal1815 Yes, if someone is behind you (particularly if they're close), I would often the brakes lightly rather than regen, when in a Stellantis vehicle.
Pretty good, but I still can’t find an EV that’s not a Tesla that’s as efficient as my eNiro. Driving with the heater on still gives 3.5 to 4 miles per kilowatt hour in winter and regularly get 5 miles per kilowatt hour when temperature is above 10°c Those Citroens are amazing value used as well. Great level headed and clear presentation as ever.
Thank you. Yes, the eNiro (and all Kia & Hyundai EVs) are very efficient, but the original Ioniq EV is more efficient by quite a margin, primarily due to a less powerful motor.
The app is pretty good actually. It has a lot of function in it and does the user manual, service history etc. Like many others, there are times when commands sent to the car don't work. But that's common with most others except Tesla. I have filmed a video going over the app function, which will be released in a couple of months.
Thanks Matt - a useful video. I am in the market for something similar as a work vehicle for my 160 mile work round trip (typically 3 days a week). I did have my mind set on a 38Kwh Ionic due largely to the efficiency, spec and comprehensive warranty (I’d be buying a 2-3 year old one realistically). How would you say the Citroen compares in these regards please? Also - have you got any experience of the pre facelift MG5 - another tempting option (for the family wagon) now in a similar £15k price bracket for a 18-24m old vehicle (also has a decent warranty). Many thanks and happy new year.
No. A Google search came up with.... "Citroen says that the bigger battery has an improved energy density and longer life thanks to a higher nickel ratio - 80% nickel, 10% manganese, and 10% cobalt as opposed to the 60% nickel, 20% manganese, and 20% cobalt of the 50kWh battery"
I sopose that C 4 doesn't preheat the battery before the journey? My Ioniq doesn't. I Sweden in wintertime, when the battery temperature is just below zero degrees, it suffers having bad efficiency. But I noticed on a longer 250 miles trip that after fast charging and an simultaneously raise in battery temperature from 3 °C to 20°C, the efficiency got better. It improved from 17 kWh/100 km to 15 kWh/100 km, with the same speed, 60 miles/h.
No, I doubt it has battery preheating. Even the cabin heater takes ages too as its a heatpump and it doesn't look like it has an additional PTC heater for that initial burst of instant heat.
How much worse will LFP batteries be in the winter or are there even better thermal control in those cars? We have -15C at the moment but no problem for our ë-C4 but consumption is of course 20-25% higher now, especially when driving shorter journeys.
Yes, LFP packs aren't so good in the cold. My next vehicle has an LFP battery and will try to make some videos about winter driving....if we actually get a winter in the UK. So far its been very mild.
it would be really interesting to see the difference low temperature makes with LFP.. although battery pre-heating may be an option on some EVs while overnight charging. @@GoGreenAutos
If you hardly use your brakes, you will probably have to change your brakes more often. Discs will rust and wear our the pards faster and you risk the brakes not working when you really need them.
Matt a friend of mine is just coming to the end of a 3year lease of one of these and believes the Citroen guest-o-meter is a work of fiction. He is calculating 1.7-2.1m/kwh currently, giving him 100 mile range. As a result is going back to petrol. Can you please verify their claimed efficiency. My ID4 is 3.2-3.5 currently.
Yes the guess-o-meter is can be way out, just like it is on many EVs and all ICE vehicles. That's why I NEVER use it and rely on the battery percentage instead. That's all you need.
Even taking into account the losses of my home charger my eC4 has averaged 4mls/kwh over the last 2 years of ownership, thats about 8p/ml using current full rate domestic electricity. Show me an ICE car that can achieve that. I'm well pleased with everything about my eC4. If my wife thinks it's a comfortable ride, then it must be good.
On the Stallentis vehicles, no. This is a crazy decision by them as when in B-mode, the vehicle can slow down pretty quickly. All other EVs, right back from 2011 have put on the brake lights when slowing down on regen, when you hit that re-determined deacceleration level.
In normal driving circumstances no one will turn off the heating or cooling, so it is not a real efficiency test. We want to know the real efficiency/ consumption. You should test it as any normal person will drive it. My Leaf average 3.3 m/kw with heating on set to temperature of 20C and driving 70mph. Driving 60mph will increase efficiency to 3.8 m/kw. In summer efficiency will go over 4 m/kw.
Volkswagen best seller for electric cars at moment Nissan five thousand euro off new leaf Ireland offer at moment Christmas time to sell new cars advertising Television
Nobody normally drives a car like that. Crawling along at max 46mph with no heater, one up in the car, and no headwind is not an example of how inefficient these EV''s really are. They are for geeks to play with but have no place in the real world.
Good tip about only engaging “B” regen mode when required. I used to put my e-C4 in “B” by default but this actually decreased efficiency as the car would not coast and if you lifted off the accelerator even slightly it would slow down and of course it takes a lot more energy to regain the lost speed than you gain from the regen.
Picked up my '23 ShinePlus ec4 yesterday and spent an hour or two getting used to my first electric vehicle. I live in the Scottish borders and yesterday temp averaged about 4c most of the day. Looking at range driven V fuel guage I reckoned I had a total range yesterday in the region of 170 - 180 miles in normal mode. I was driving on mixed town, A roads and dual carriage way, testing cruise control and manual experience, throttle responses and building confidence in overtaking etc. Very good first impression which alleviated almost all my novice anxieties around range and I'm sure I'll be able to drive better once I'm a bit more comfortable and get to grips with the regen. This video couldn't have come at a better time, so cheers for that. The test today will be a 120m round trip visiting relatives in Fife. Keep up the good work. Your output is very easy to understand and helpful.
I'd be interested on how you feel EV's perform on snowy or icy roads. Is the extra weight a benefit or a hindrance, or is it a nothing issue?
Alistair
EVs are generally considerably better than ICE vehicles in snow and ice due to the speed an electric motor can react to commands from the traction control system.
My Hyundai Ioniq 28 has been particularly impressive on snow I must say. Better than my previous petrol car. The steering, the slightly extra weight, but more importantly the regenerative breaking instead of regular brakes have turned out to improve the overall stability while driving on snow.
I am in fife too, in Dunfermline and looking to get into EV for regular commute to Edinburgh. How has your experience been so far?
@adarshaaryal3527 it's been good overall. I worried about range in winter, felt insecure about driving style etc. Now, as we approach winter again, I'm much more confident and relaxed. A home charger took away most of the worry instantly and I now understand and have confidence in my ability to predict the economy I'll achieve on any one journey.
Electric driving is a joy, - peaceful and relaxing in general. The cost benefits are great. I'm saving about £200 a month on fuel.
I'm very happy.
This is one of the few channels that shows EV efficiency in normal driving conditions. Please keep these videos coming.
The heated seat may run of the 12v battery but that is charged by the main EV battery
Sure but it's far far lower power than the air heater.
Good video again Matt, nice to see basic real-world driving experience. My C4 diesel is just the same, where the computer can't keep up with sudden commands (11:26, reversing). Still looking for a good-priced electric version to suit my budget. Keep the info flowing 👍🏻
Thanks
Good demonstration, but why the one handed steering & not indicating at junctions?
Glad you show warts and all, even to leaving the boot ajar! 😅
Fyi the music came in a bit loud, fortunately I was watching on my TV so could turn it down ok.
4.7 not too shabby for an EV that's not a classic Ioniq. Still not persuaded away from them although I did see the new Peugeot has an estate version...👀
Yes the new Pug estate looks very nice.
Sorry about the music volume. I tried to get it about right, but this video editing is all self taught.
When taking about the B-mode you still know that they brake pedal acts as a dynamic degeneration control? It is the most safe (brake lights lit up) and effective way to drive in towns. Would use B-mode only when going downhill and it is very steep.
Yes, its crazy that Stellantis vehicles don't put the brake lights on when slowing on regen only. All other EVs do.
@@GoGreenAutos Not all others but you’re right they should. The only annoying drawback is the flashing brake lights for those who drive behind you.
the Leaf doesn't it seems.. would be interesting to test others too@@GoGreenAutos
Best in my ec4 winter would be in high fours too, mostly on eco.
Normally I'd be using heater and on mixed town, country and motorway giving 4.1 which I'm happy with.
First disappointment was when I got car last January.
At 3am, on airport run when below 0⁰, five up, five suitcases heat and demist on 74.5 MPH (RoI) and my 215 miles at start dropped to 75 miles after 75 mile journey 😬
Only do that run once a year thankfully
*edit* a bigger disappointment that rainy night was the car getting dirty for first time😂
Thanks. How cool was the cabin in eco? Cheers.
It was fine. The heated seats and heated steering wheel keeps you warm enough.
Hi Matt,
Have you ever thought about testing a newer 50kw eBerlingo or equivalent?
Now they're 3 years old, they are getting more affordable for those of us who like to own our car?
Like your practical approach to testing.
Cheers.
While my eC4 indicates similar mls/kwh, I find it is indicating about 10% higher than the actual figure. See how many kwh it takes to recharge the battery to the percentage it was at the start of your journey and divide this figure into the mileage travelled. I bet you haven't achieved 4.7 mls/kwh now.
Great videos keep up the good work.
You do have about >10% losses when charging (in wall charger & on-board charger), so you're probably seeing this.
Thanks for the video. As you say, not as efficient as my Ioniq but I think the lack of regen and no one pedal driving would be a deal breaker for me.
I thought that initially, as coming straight from an Ioniq. But you soon get used to a different driving style and I can't say I hugely miss it. If I had to choose between an Ioniq 38kWh or a Citroen e-C4, I'd take to the e-C4 for the comfort, HUD and higher ride & seat height.
I'm starting to think that normal / D-mode driving may be safer in some circumstances compared to B-mode (or regen mode 1 or 2) just simply because it forces you to use the brakes when decelelerating. That way, the car behind gets warning about you slowing down. Special one-pedal driving modes are different however as they tend to be designed to activate the brake lights when the deceleration hits a specific G value.
@@decimal1815 Yes, if someone is behind you (particularly if they're close), I would often the brakes lightly rather than regen, when in a Stellantis vehicle.
Do you need the heated seats on full ?12 degrees and you need the heated steering wheel on I hope you got the fan heater on full for good measure
Pretty good, but I still can’t find an EV that’s not a Tesla that’s as efficient as my eNiro. Driving with the heater on still gives 3.5 to 4 miles per kilowatt hour in winter and regularly get 5 miles per kilowatt hour when temperature is above 10°c
Those Citroens are amazing value used as well.
Great level headed and clear presentation as ever.
Thank you. Yes, the eNiro (and all Kia & Hyundai EVs) are very efficient, but the original Ioniq EV is more efficient by quite a margin, primarily due to a less powerful motor.
Hyundai Ioniq 28 is the best EV in terms of efficiency. 3.5-4.5 miles/kWh in autumn/winter, 5-6.3 miles/kWh for Spring/Summer for me. 🥳👌🏻
Loved the video. Surprised how efficient it was. Seems good value. What’s the app like?
The app is pretty good actually. It has a lot of function in it and does the user manual, service history etc. Like many others, there are times when commands sent to the car don't work. But that's common with most others except Tesla. I have filmed a video going over the app function, which will be released in a couple of months.
Thanks Matt - a useful video. I am in the market for something similar as a work vehicle for my 160 mile work round trip (typically 3 days a week). I did have my mind set on a 38Kwh Ionic due largely to the efficiency, spec and comprehensive warranty (I’d be buying a 2-3 year old one realistically). How would you say the Citroen compares in these regards please? Also - have you got any experience of the pre facelift MG5 - another tempting option (for the family wagon) now in a similar £15k price bracket for a 18-24m old vehicle (also has a decent warranty). Many thanks and happy new year.
Nice video thanks .does the newer vehicle have lfp batteries.
No. A Google search came up with....
"Citroen says that the bigger battery has an improved energy density and longer life thanks to a higher nickel ratio - 80% nickel, 10% manganese, and 10% cobalt as opposed to the 60% nickel, 20% manganese, and 20% cobalt of the 50kWh battery"
@@GoGreenAutos thankyou
I sopose that C 4 doesn't preheat the battery before the journey? My Ioniq doesn't. I Sweden in wintertime, when the battery temperature is just below zero degrees, it suffers having bad efficiency. But I noticed on a longer 250 miles trip that after fast charging and an simultaneously raise in battery temperature from 3 °C to 20°C, the efficiency got better. It improved from 17 kWh/100 km to 15 kWh/100 km, with the same speed, 60 miles/h.
No, I doubt it has battery preheating. Even the cabin heater takes ages too as its a heatpump and it doesn't look like it has an additional PTC heater for that initial burst of instant heat.
How much worse will LFP batteries be in the winter or are there even better thermal control in those cars?
We have -15C at the moment but no problem for our ë-C4 but consumption is of course 20-25% higher now, especially when driving shorter journeys.
LFP can tolerate higher temps better than NMC but is worse than NMC in the extreme cold apparently.
Yes, LFP packs aren't so good in the cold. My next vehicle has an LFP battery and will try to make some videos about winter driving....if we actually get a winter in the UK. So far its been very mild.
it would be really interesting to see the difference low temperature makes with LFP.. although battery pre-heating may be an option on some EVs while overnight charging. @@GoGreenAutos
If you hardly use your brakes, you will probably have to change your brakes more often. Discs will rust and wear our the pards faster and you risk the brakes not working when you really need them.
Matt a friend of mine is just coming to the end of a 3year lease of one of these and believes the Citroen guest-o-meter is a work of fiction. He is calculating 1.7-2.1m/kwh currently, giving him 100 mile range. As a result is going back to petrol. Can you please verify their claimed efficiency.
My ID4 is 3.2-3.5 currently.
Yes the guess-o-meter is can be way out, just like it is on many EVs and all ICE vehicles. That's why I NEVER use it and rely on the battery percentage instead. That's all you need.
Even taking into account the losses of my home charger my eC4 has averaged 4mls/kwh over the last 2 years of ownership, thats about 8p/ml using current full rate domestic electricity. Show me an ICE car that can achieve that. I'm well pleased with everything about my eC4. If my wife thinks it's a comfortable ride, then it must be good.
do your brake lights come on if your coasting? just before a stop
No, same as they don’t when you lift off in a petrol or diesel car. In B mode, with regen braking, they do.
On the Stallentis vehicles, no. This is a crazy decision by them as when in B-mode, the vehicle can slow down pretty quickly. All other EVs, right back from 2011 have put on the brake lights when slowing down on regen, when you hit that re-determined deacceleration level.
One-pedal driving. yay! One-hand steering... noyay.
its no Ioniq !
In normal driving circumstances no one will turn off the heating or cooling, so it is not a real efficiency test. We want to know the real efficiency/ consumption. You should test it as any normal person will drive it. My Leaf average 3.3 m/kw with heating on set to temperature of 20C and driving 70mph. Driving 60mph will increase efficiency to 3.8 m/kw. In summer efficiency will go over 4 m/kw.
Volkswagen best seller for electric cars at moment Nissan five thousand euro off new leaf Ireland offer at moment Christmas time to sell new cars advertising Television
Nobody normally drives a car like that. Crawling along at max 46mph with no heater, one up in the car, and no headwind is not an example of how inefficient these EV''s really are. They are for geeks to play with but have no place in the real world.
mine is 4.3 mp/kwh, I love the way it drives, but I HATE the interior.