This Is One of The Most UNIQUE Methods to Layout a Fence
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
- Today we're back with another fence reaction video and today is a really special one. The video is about laying out a fence line, specifically a corner. And the method these guys use to get this thing perfect is SO INTERESTING! I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did!
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I'm Joe Everest, The Fence Expert. On this channel, I'm going to teach you everything there is to know about fences. We're going to show you how to build a fence, everything about fence posts, different fence installation methods and much, much more. If you're wanting to become a fence builder, or if you're just trying to build a DIY fence, my channel will help you out. So subscribe and ring the bell icon, that way you don't miss any of my fence videos!
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No idea how I stumbled across this channel.
I’ve never built a fence nor will I ever build one but I’m subbing to this channel.
The 3-4-5 rule is the first thing we learned in wood working/construction class in high school in the 80’s. I still use it when trying to square any project.
I’ve used the Pythagorean theorem a lot in laying out fences and livestock pens. I know the “3,4,5” method works ok to keep it simple, but if I know my lengths of each leg I actually calculate out what my diagonal (hypotenuse) should be and adjust for square that way with a 100’ or 300’ tape as long as I’m within 300’. I thought this was common knowledge. My high school Agriculture teacher taught me this and it is why I actually started paying attention in math... it made it useful!
You get less accurate as you measure longer distances.
Thanks for all the tips and tricks. Gonna finish fencing in my yard next year and your videos have been very insightful. I can see its gonna cost me a little more money than originally thought but hopefully save me money in the long run.
Always good stuff Joe. Thank you sir, keep up the great work.
That is the 3, 4, 5 method I learned when I was framing houses. We use it to form perfect 90° corner. Interesting to see done on a corner. Normally not to concerned about perfect corner. Just along as fence is within customer parameters.
This 4000-year-old knowledge only works on a 90-degree corner.
I found this video while looking for a manual method to layout a small fence project. I'm a DIYer/handyman and not a professional fencer. For previous larger fencing projects, I hired a laser with a remote receiver aligner & plumb-bob (Redback brand laser here in Australia) for fenceline layout in combination with a distance measuring wheel over fairly level ground (the wheel is accurate to within 0.2% or 3" per 100'). Very efficient, fast, and accurate with no mucking about or tripping over the string. Saved me time and money. If I was a fencer I would definitely have a laser layout tool in my kit.
3,4,5 is very standard in Australia and NewZealand
We use this in metal roofing all the time, I thought it was more universal. Great vid!
345 is one of the first things an apprentice will learn in New Zealand. Altho when setting out its always more accurate to measure out full lengths and use pythagorus to calculate the hypotenuse (long side of triangle)
Same in America. Union carpenter apprentices get it hammered into their heads BUT a right angle laser is a time saver for layout less then 30’
Here in California we use that string line from post to post from an existing fence and mark the post every 7-7.5 feet if its a new fence no existing we would do 8ft but that mason thread we use it and drop the diggers right under the string flush to the thin part of the diggers not the metal clamps and thats where our hole goes we easily move it with our foot and start the digging and when we set the post we make sure it's barely touching the string line
Fluorescent pink for holes white to demote dig perimeter or area. The Pythagorean theorem is what I’ve always used for a 90. A squared plus B squared equals C squared.
@@JoeEverest surveyors use both pink and orange. However, I’m not concerned with the pink because they don’t have buried utilities that I could conflict with. They are only painting laths. White just isn’t visible enough and even worse in snow and frost.
@@JoeEverest Full color code below...
RED - Electric Power Lines, Cables, Conduit, and Lighting Cables
YELLOW - Gas, Oil, Steam, Petroleum, or Gaseous Material
ORANGE - Communication, Alarm or Signal Lines, Cables, or Conduit
BLUE - Potable Water
GREEN - Sewers and Drain Lines
WHITE - Proposed Excavation Limits or Route
PINK - Temporary Survey Markings, Unknown / Unidentified Facilities
PURPLE - Reclaimed Water, Irrigation, and Slurry Lines
You are correct that pink is for surveying, but more specifically temporary surveying. It is very common for excavations to be surveyed (laid out) in pink. I have done footing excavation for years, and I only ever worked with one crew who didn't use pink paint because the foreman was color blind and could not see the pink.
I'm in Kenosha, Wisconsin. They surveyed everything and drove rebar stakes on the corners and at the sidewalks. A metal detector and a small spade shovel eliminates the guesswork.
But that 3,4, 5 triangle is something that can be used vertically to measure a span across a creek or felling a tree, but I'll digress. Yes. I use that formula on occasion to find angles and distances.
When setting your string line on a slope Make sure to check both or all stringlines are level as this can effect the measurement and double check.
Keeping tapes squareish will avoid huge adjustment.
Calculate the diagonal .
345 works but for a more accurate square just calculate the diagonal overall. Doing this will double check everything in 1 measure. If levelish ground keep lines low but if not keep levelish . Secure tape on the corner of the 2 sides that you want adjusted the least and measue to opposite corner.
To calculate diagonal of a square or rectangle that is 55m long and 68m wide
Square root of a² + b² = c² diagonal = √(a² + b²)
√ =55×55)+(68×68)
87.4585616163
= 87.459
If your measurement is out swing the tape left or right depending as sometimes certain lines cant move.(existing slabs,structures} Mark 87.459 which is onthe line you do not want moved making sure to try and keep the tape level.
Now pull {b} the string crossing the marked one (a) around until it lines up with the mark. Get someone to pull li ne around so you can peg or bend pin over until it hits mark and replumb with new peg. You now have a square corner....
The last step will square all 3 others and to do that remeasure (b)55m back to( a)
Boundaries. If in any doubt get it surveyed. NOT ALL BOUNDARIES ARE SQUARE
Offset all pins and if a foundation cradle and nail it....
And if your lines are off the ground to make them level, make sure the sticks they are tied to are stiff enough not to flex, and secured perfectly plumb/vertical.
Pythagoras theorem is about one of the few things I actually remembered in school .
Its hard to beat the 3-4-5 method aside from making your own portable square from narrow wood that might be laying around. I have made the A-frame level that stands about 5 1/2 feet tall. Just hang a plumb-bob from it at the very top that cuts exact center of the cross bar It is useful for checking the level over a yard for certain things. Like say finding where water will tend to stand or making a ditch.
Great content. Question, so how would you design and square an irregular yard. My yard is a corner lot, a perfect square. The problem is the front of my house is angled towards where the to street intersect.
That knotless knots called a binder. My all time favorite is to make a loop, stick your finger through it and twist 5-6 times then drop it over the stake. You can pull a string so tight you can snap it. Then pull the bitter end back on its self and you're done
@@JoeEverest easily my biggest take away from my years of concrete work. Give it a shot and let me know how much you love it!
I set the two corner posts make sure they are plumb
tac a 2x4 8 inches off the ground
Wrap line around post and blocks set all the other posts 1 1/2 inches off line
Nice video. Any ideas on how to use mesh metal fences without top rail for 250-300 feet spans? mainly about T-Posts strengthening.
@@JoeEverest thanks alot.
@@JoeEverest I had a project around a solar field last year that used that exact method. As I remember, it was a twisted galvanized cable and barbed wire, and a pain in the butt! Not again. I'll sub it out for the finder's fee and stick with cedar and green treated.
Middle rail on the Corners and ends with truss rods.. top high tensile wire
I use a total station to do our set outs, but still use the 3:4:5 method every time just to be sure.
I've only used the 3x4x5 method for squaring. Its more accurate than a square because you can span a longer distance by using the multiples of 3x4x5. Never heard of anyone using a square with string line the way you mentioned it. Seems to me there would be less accurate over a long distance
Hi for a single 90 degree you only need one large carpenters square
But if you were doing a complete box or rectangle with 4 90 degree corners you can use 3 squares 9 you can use 3 but if you have 4 perfect 90 degrees done the last one can only ever be 90 degrees exactly itself
i worked for a civil contracting company in the office, but most times on a vacant or demolished block of land there would be some "master surveyors pegs" a few options
1. either all 4 of them in each extreme corner
2. a single post in the middle you draw string line ti front of house then rear of house then left and right of the plan specs
3. top left corner and bottom right corner - you had to calculate the other 2 pegs by first a diagonal string line ( or really a very large 250 meter roll up cloth tape measure ), then do the maths and use large builder squares to get 90 degree angles - actually later on there were some home made large 1 meter x 1 meter 1 inch square tubes welded up foreman would carry 2 of these in utes - later on you could buy them in 1meter or 2meter plastic / perspex sheets ( there is 39.3 inches per meter in Australia old plans to 1970 were imperial )
There is another way with the single peg, you can place a string line in the single centre peg, then draw a complete circle - they had some set up sheet notes and formulae to find the front and rear boundary then the left and righ boundary
Here is a online calculator i found with a google search
www.spikevm.com/calculators/area-perimeter/circle-to-rectangle.php
@@georgemaragos2378 and all of this could of been achieved by doing 3 4 5 🥴🥴🥴
I'd laugh if I seen a house marked out using a builders square/rafter square
@@georgemaragos2378 A carpenter's square is too small to project an angle any significant distance. Errors in extending angles are accumulative. A seemingly insignificant error at 2' becomes a huge error at 200'. Using multiples of 3-4-5 or 30-40-50 feet effectively gives you a square with 30' and 40' legs.
If you're unable to use 3-4-5 on a large scale because of terrain or structures, a transit will precisely locate your corners. You only need basic trigonometry. If it's been a while since high school math, you just need a few formulas, and you plug in the variables. Of course none of this matters if your acceptable margin of error is measured in feet.
Whenever I set out at work I use a 4 foot square then check it with 3x4x5 or measure the corners if it’s a actual square
Can't remember the formula name but learned as a carpenter framing custom houses.
Do you have a video on how to layout a fenc with a backyard that is not squared. My backyard goes back 25 feet then goes into a triangle shape
I have to install a fence along the 800' boundary on my property. I have located the surveyor pins at each end. How can I ensure a straight line for the fence. String won't work on an 800' distance. I. am looking at the Johnson 99-027K laser level. Can you tell me if this will work for my application or do you have an alternate method?
Love your Channel!
I was wondering if you could give some opinion on some of the spike Style devices available for mounting 4 x 4 fence post. I am basically building a garden fence maybe four feet tall Max to contain our two chihuahuas when they go out to do their business I'm wondering if devices like that would be adequate versus digging post holes and using concrete
@@JoeEverest thank you very much for taking the time to reply
And I use a water level too
Joe, can you make a video about how you get the boundary lines surveyed? Is it an owner responsibility or does the contractor sub that out?
sub'd out. every time
3, 4, 5 is certainly a nice easy ratio. But for any right triangle (one the two legs come together to make a 90 degree corner) the two legs can be any length (say A and B) the equation for the length of hypotenuse C is C-squared = A-squared + B-squared. So if you know the full length of your two fence lines A and B then the length of the hypotenuse is C = square-root of A-squared + B-squared. So if you have a calculator which can calculate a square root, you can use the full length of the two legs and then calculate the length of the hypotenuse. So for their corner fence with an 8 ft side and a 16 ft side they could have laid out one of the legs (say the 8 ft one) and then they would have a 90 degree angle where one tape measures 16 ft from the corner post to establish the end of the 16 ft leg and the other tape measure reads the square-root of 8 squared + 16 squared or 17.89 ft, which in feet, inches and fractions of an inch works out to 17 ft 10 2/3 inches from the end of the 8 ft leg to the end of the 16 ft leg.
And while it might not be any more accurate than just establishing the 90 angle using the 3,4,5 trick, it lets me use my high school trigonometry to only have to measure the length of the legs themselves rather than the 3, 4, 5 or 6, 8, 10 ft to get the 90 degree angle and then measure the actual length of the legs
So I am going to be building a fence around my 20 foot by 20 ft garden to keep the deer out. I can just start in one corner and measure out 20 feet. (I am building this behind my garage, so that first line will be parallel to the back wall). Once I have stakes at each end of that first 20 foot side the stake for the next 20 foot side at 90 degrees to the first side is where the 20 foot mark on one tape crosses the 28' 3 3/8" mark on the second tape coming diagonally across from the other corner of the first 20 foot leg. The nice thing is that I can progress to the third side and the fourth side in the same way.
A final check is just like when making a picture frame of any thing else that needs to have 4 90-degree corners, and that is to make sure that both diagonals are the same length (and both should still be 28' 3 3/8" if I haven't screwed it up), and then all for corners will be 90 degrees.The only issue is that you need one of the tape measures to be long enough to run diagonally. That is where one of the 100 ft surveyors tape measures come in handy. But I am going to have posts in the middle of each side (it is going to use 2" x 4" welded wire and there will be top and bottom rails so the wind loads won't be too much for a stretch too 10 ft on center for the posts). So if I only had a 25 ft tape, I could mark the 10 ft mark on the first leg, and then put a stake where the 10 ft mark on the first tape crosses the 14 ft and 1 11/16 in.
3, 4, 5 is how we do all of are building. I mean we might I do to Fantasy year but that's what we do for laying out walls or foundations
One way to make a right angle would be to lay a string from any point of the fence line to the adjacent fence line and then tying a second string in the exact middle of the first string. The second string has to be exactly half the length of the first. Then the second string will automatically land on the corner of a 90 degree angle.
I guess it's not that easy to use. But i think it's a nice little thing to know.
So 1 long string and 1 half as long, attached to the middle of the long string.
Will always mark 3 points of a right triangle.
It’s good to see how others do things but i put my string on the spot of the face of the fence 12” off the ground and adjust for any ground slope then dig holes then check to make sure holes work with string and sting is running how I want my fence to run that allows me to mark my post for 12” above ground level and I also mark string to center of my post spacing to center post exactly where I want it this eliminates having to pull a tape every step
I just put the string on the fence line then mark my posts and take a bite out of the ground woth my post whole diggers where it is even under the line, your whole might need to move a inch or two sometimes depending on how much play the previous post had but for the most part it works out great
Great process, I appreciate you sharing it!
Measure cross corners. If same distance your rectangle/square is 90. If you don't have full rectangle just measure up opposite sides an equal distance (say 20') as temp corners and then measure across.
When I mark with paint(hardly ever) I know I'm about to dig a hole there, and a post is going in said hole. The dirt(with paint on it) is already removed, so that's not even an issue if I'm still standing there. Most of the time, I'm not even using marking paint. But when I do, it's no more than I can finish in one day anyways. Sometimes it's just a 2 inch dot because I'm standing right there with the string right next to it.
I also stretch the string and mark it every 8 feet with a sharpie, then double-check with the tape before I start the auger. It saves me ten bucks on every job not buying paint, and it's rare that I'm ever more than an inch off mark.
Pythagoras' Theorem. Builders have been using it for centuries. The easiest one to remember is (3,4,5) but there are many more.
One thing they didn't mention was to do a utility locate (811 in the states). Maybe they already did this and were marked clear.
I assumed that they wanted that 16' long side to be parallel to the house. If he walks 16' away from the 90 right angle right at the corner and places the 2nd stake a little too much up the hill or down the hill then the whole "L" shape will be rotated to the right or left respectively. Right?
How do you not know 3 4 5 dude 🤣🤣
Believe it or not this was my FIRST ever layout example I used for a fence
Love it!
I suppose the 3 4 5 foot method works in metric meters too
Hi- the units just need to remain the same , it does not matter if feet / yards / inches/ miles/ meters / kilometers
even easier if you have a calculator - the rule is multiply the 2 smaller sides, then use the formulae to get the longest length
3x3=9 4x4=16 so the other side must be 5x5=25
you can also work it backwards
long = 5x5=25 other short is 4x4=16 so take 16 from 25 you have 9 , so the gaps is 3x3=9
Any odd size is easy with simple maths
lets say you had 12x30xunknown ( lets call it short / short / long )
so
12x12 = 144
30x30 = 900
total = 1044
so the long length is 32.3
@@georgemaragos2378 Thanks for taking the time. It is appreciated.
Blessings to you
The essential craftsman has a video on about a dozen ways to tie a string line tighter then a guitar and it comes undone with one pull.
Better method is making a loop and twisting it
Using a speed square of which at most could be 1 foot on the long side would be a very in accurate way to get a 90° angle on a 16’ x 8’ corner the further your legs go in the multiple of three for five more accurate your 90° angle will be this is basic algebra math Pythagoras theorem surprised the fence builder doesn’t know that
You could use the same basic concept for making sure that your posts are perpendicular to the ground you just have to measure in two different directions mark up the post 4 feet and out from the ground 3 feet and make sure the distance between the mark up the post and the mark out on the ground is 5 feet and you have another 3,4,5 triangle. Though it would be a lot of work.
Eh- I’m a cabinet guy and I’ve got a 3’x3’ speed square lol. We use it to show corners in kitchens being out of square, hell I think it’s an ooold Simpson , not some one off tool.
I’d imagine you don’t do many 90 degree corners in fencing. I’ve never done one personally- I follow property lines, let the surveyors determine square if needed, otherwise I’ve just followed whatever wonky shape the yard is. I’m in Mississippi tho and out here there’s more odd shaped lots than when I lived in Maryland and everything was uniform.
@@davidlangston6927 nah mate wouldnt work unless you have dead level ground....or all your creating is a 90° angle to the ground not plumb
I've been using the "1,2,3"/ 3,4,5 method for Years! Fail Safe method..
That’s NOT how you roll up a string line. You want 3hrs of untangling? That’s how you get it.
I always eyeball down the house and measure off the house and the eyeball mark.. comes out perfect every time.. ten times faster than this
@@JoeEverest house was right there I don't see why not.. lol
3:4:5 only works on a perfect flat plane. The result will be off in the real world in proportion to how far off a flat plane the grade of the ground is. Compensate for this by making the strings used to draw the triangle level, not following the ground, and the posts they are tied to perfectly plumb, not just eyeballed.
Great information, I appreciate the insight!
Probably never squared anything we’ve built that’s I’ve 8’ without using 3,4,5. The longer you go the more imperative this method is.
Pythagoras
Uh this has been used for centuries!
A^2+B^2=C^2
3^2 + 4^2 = 5^2
9 + 16 = 25
How is this unique?