Pair of legends. Absolutely love jeff. I'm sure there are thousands similar to me out there because of jeff. Started watching him years ago. Gave me the confidence and knowledge to do my own bathroom, then a fence, then a patio, fireplace reno, kitchen and other bathroom - did the whole house. Saved probably 100k and enjoyed every minute of it. People found my work and I started getting paid to do it. More bathrooms, ktichens, fences, etc. Paid off my wife's student loans in no time. So if you read this Jeff- I want you to think of the thousands of folks you helped out there.
I've been doing fences for many years and we always just pour regular quickcrete dry in the hole add the dirt get the post level tamper it down. Build the fence. Check each post with bottom and top string then add a little water around each post. Idk where ur at but where I live the ground is wet enough for the concrete to get hard already. No need to wait for them to set for a day or brace up. Do the whole fence in one day. Never had a problem or call back
the cure time is different for dry pour. Where it's a 27 day full cure for mixed, a dry pour can be up to double. It's pulling in moisture for a much longer time and has a slower cure process, but will eventually be full strength. For fence posts, its more than sufficient. I even did a dry pour concrete slab and after a year, not a single hairline fracture. Im in TN
My dad's family had a special tool they called a "tamper", homemade. When they began to refill the hole around the post, they would tamp or pack the dirt down hard. I am 69 years old and they were here before I was. I have done the same thing and the posts are pretty sturdy. They have held cows and horses, which if they are tame, doesn't take much.
AGREED. My Dad did it this way, and now I do it this way. Why not just tamp down the dirt you already have? It makes it easier to replace and holds posts good enough.
YES! Lowe's sells what they call a *"69-in Post-hole Digging Bar"* It has a flat end for tamping dirt, and a flared end for digging. I've been using it for years to tamp soil around my posts, and they are just as solid as using cement.
@@lpnelson6584 frost. If you live in cold climates, it'll slowly pull it out of the ground. Modern woods will also rot in soil. The pressure treating isn't what it used to be.
I set a mailbox post two years ago with a different option. It's called Simpson Strong-tie easy Spike. It basically consists of a metal spike with a bracket for a 4x4 post at the top. Installing it was as simple as setting a sacrificial piece of 4x4 in the bracket and driving it into the ground with a sledgehammer. Then just set your post in the bracket, plum and level, and screw in place. Rock solid and if the post ever gets hit by a car or rots out it's as simple as taking a few screws out and setting a new post in the bracket. They make a longer version for fence posts. I have one sitting in my garage for a upcoming project where I have to remove part of a privacy fence and don't want to pour cement to replace the post.
Haven’t watched yet, but THIS is the only circumstance where a dry pour is appropriate. I already know that’s how Jeff is going to do it. Love his ability to discern for us when it is appropriate to take the easy route. Thanks Jeff! You Rock!
I have always used the dry pour and at times I will put a few galvanized nail into the post which assist the retention to the post. Also I do the same with vinyl fence posts. My neighbor had a fence company come in and put up a fence and after two years they had posts where already lifting.
I have had good luck with digging the post a little bit deeper than required, throw post down and when pouring concrete, lift up a tad to allow concrete to flow completely around post and bottom of it. then quickly set/level/plumb post to correct height ect. Along with making concrete a little on the wet side. really fills in the gaps and flows right around the post. with it a bit wetter than normal, it does take a little bit of extra time and focus to keep level. depending on the job, and especially if its for home, I would recommend it. have had great success so far. Always open for new methods and ways.
Rapid post looks like the clear winner to me. I will have to see what its going for in my area assuming I can get it (thats an issue here often with products). For a few years I have been wanting to drop a few posts around an old concrete slab we have outback, just 3 or 4 posts for a kind of windbreak and privacy fence. I dont have the back anymore to do concrete unless I just did one at a time taking day or so breaks between, and I dont really have the budget for foam (would basically cost as much or more than the rest of the project finished). But that rapid post dry pour stuff seems the ticket at just a little more than concrete but also very easy to work with and no ticking clock until you are already done.
Blueskin flashing tape around the post up to 2 inches above soil line to prevent rot. And really compact the soil around it. You'll never have to worry about boulders under your lawn. And the packed dirt is solid.
I’m so glad i watched til the end I thought you were saying dry pour is good at first 😅I been building fences and decks 20 plus years all I use is quickset concrete. I can hang a gate in an hour on a hot day. For big jobs we use the regular quickcrete but rarely and we always mix all the concrete dry pour does NOT mix all the way through!!!
I believe you can use just about any concrete dry mix the same way as the Rapid Post. I've done that with some standard ready mix and it worked just fine for me.
Definitely information I can use! Now, about that flat black post holder, would that be considered 'temporary" fencing? I guess I'll have to wait to find out...waiting :)
Hi Jeff. The way I was taught to set a post here in SW Ontario, was to auger a 8" hole 3' deep, put 6" of dry concrete in the hole, (half a bag) add some water, place the post and back-fill with soil. My fence has been up for 15 years and there has been no movement. The frost shouldn't catch the smooth fence post, and the ball of cement at the bottom will not rise or sink. I was told that all the post needs is a firm bottom so it will not sink. I do believe my method works. Thoughts?
Thanks! I’m building a few arbours in Edmonton and have been looking at all 4 of these options! Cool seeing them compared. For my use I just bought the regular concrete.
We have heavy clay here. All we ever do is put the post in, and throw in dry concrete. There is already water in the hole by the time we start. It will stay wet and cure just fine over time. We have a 36" frost line here. Usually take a post hole digger and widen the base of the hole after auguring it out. That way it tapers and will never come up.
There's a popular channel here in the UK (Proper DIY) where he did the same as you and tested various methods and came up with the exact same results however, he (Stuart) didn't try the last method as I don't think we have those here. We do have fence post spikes where you have to hammer them home but not those exact same things as far as I'm aware. I've got a massive fence to get put up at some point here and while I'm still researching the best method to use, I think I'll be going the concrete mix (first method) and using one of those massive vibrating rods to settle the concrete. Just looking at ways to maximise the longevity of the posts. So far thinking of tanalised posts, coat the bottom in bitumen, concrete in hold, post in, rest of concrete to the top angling the concrete downwards to take water away.
This was interesting. I've heard sika boom shrinks after awhile so it isn't good for posts. There has to be a better way to drive that metal helical drill in without going in circles. Maybe getting a shorter board and spinning it while standing in place? Or finding a way to attach a drill to spin it? LOL. We used dry pour concrete for gate posts. A hurricane hit and the gate posts snapped off at ground level. Meanwhile, trees next to the fence had fell over and their roots came up. There is another method that wasn't shown here: the key method, but it involves a lot more digging. You dig down and put a horizontal ground rated pressure treated board up against the post to brace it from side to side. You make sure the dirt fills in around it enough that you can put another horizontal board in perpendicular and on top of the first board. I think the boards need to be about 24". If you fill in properly, they brace the post so it won't tip. Then you back fill on top of the boards to hide them.
I used the foam option for a mailbox post cuz I didnt want to deal with concrete, after I poured it in I put a piece of plywood over it with a cutout for the post, so kinda C shaped, and I stood on it and held the post level while it expanded. It was easy to cut the little excess off that spilled out between the post and plywood, and its been very solid for 3 years now. I don't think Id use it for fence posts though.
Excellent video! Nothing like a real-world test to see how a product works. I worked in the signage industry for decades and I've installed thousands of footers. Our engineers would always freak out if we ever dry-poured any smaller footings like for directional signs. I wonder if there is really any difference between a bag of Quikrete and the stuff you used?
Good to know nobody is ever removing the fence posts I put in (dry pour). My Brother-in-Law works for city parks and one of the old-timers said you could even just pour the dry concrete and leave it and it would eventually suck up enough moisture from the ground to harden on its own (if you're *really* not in a hurry).
The method I've been using for years is similar but I use course gravel instead. It stays very ridged, but can be removed more easily than with concrete. Mainly though it lets water drain away from the post
@@michaelbirchall2247 I use 3/4" rough gravel (sharp edges not rounded), with a layer in the bottom before placing the post, and I tamp it in layers as I put it in. The posts are very stiff in the hole when done. Here in the foothills of the Rocky Mtns we get very strong winds and my fence posts never seem to move.
Just found Jeff a couple of days ago. Learning as I go. Just curious as to why you didn't use the old time method of putting all the dirt you took out of the hole, back into the hole. I did that on a fence to keep the kids in when they were young and then watched the landlord try to pull them out after we left. He to use a bobcat to get them out. Sometimes the old ways are still some of the best. Time to do a little binge watching.
wow this was so informative! thanks so much! my fence recently fell down in some high winds (and it wasnt in very deep to begin with)... need to repair it
Jeff you missed one other method and that is just filling the hole with road crush or angular gravel. The advantage of this method is when the post does rot in 20 years you can pull the out and replace it in the same spot. With concrete you are not getting the block of concrete out without some serious work.
hi, how is the quick concrete bad again? unless i intend to pull it out and hit it with a sledge hammer...i am not understanding it since it is the sturdiest when underground.
So for a fence, maybe the takeaway is: concrete with a vibrator (maybe some gravel first?). Taring the post section below grade adds a lot to longevity also. Jeff, do they make helical piles for fence posts, or just point load?
You can use helical pile for a fence sure. I would probably say it's the "best but probably overkill and most expensive" option. Here in Canada or any northern states Helical Piles makes most sense because our frozen line is way deeper.
How much time before the wood in cement (or foam) starts rotting? I am wondering what is the best way for a post fence in order to stay plumb and not rotting for the longest period of time in northern Canada?
When I did my fence, I found this great metal post product online that had holes, and an open channel design, that meant never worrying about the posts rotting, and much smaller diameter holes to dig and less cement to use. But I can’t find them anymore.
I live within 20 miles of Mammoth Cave. The land here is known as Karst. Rock is guaranteed by the time you reach 1 foot. How am I supposed to dig a post hole...or 40?
I would generally advise against helical piles (as shown here) for fence posts as the only strength for the fence post is vertical. Any horizontal load, especially perpendicular to the fence (i.e. wind) would easily start to stress the wood at the connection point and eventually will fail. Also, check your local building codes and soil conditions as Helical Piles in my city must be engineered for anything requiring a permit. And the soil around here is clay and rocks. Even engineered powered in helical piles are a struggle around here.
The dry pour one will get stronger with time as is absorbs more moisture. It'll be interesting to see if it will break that easily after a couple of months and a few rain pours.
Thanks for the video! I’ve been wanting to put up posts for a while now to install a shade sail in our backyard. My issue is, for this application, all posts would be free-standing and not tied into any other structure. Is it even possible to install a free-standing post and not have it pitch and move drastically over time? I was even contemplating helical piles. Not very confident about that option after watching this video. Any recommendations would be appreciated, I’m at a loss for how to proceed. Thanks in advance for any input.
Mr. Jeff, I've learned soooo much from your videos all these years, I feel like you are a family member, so please don't pull and strain 😢 we need you to take care of yourself! ❤
Just saw a comparison video elsewhere with Sika vs Fast 2k and sika lost, Do you have a video testing out Fast 2k brand setting foam? I just love your videos and trust your opinion on it too!
I tried the expansion foam because the previous posts set in concrete were rotted - sadly the foam was ineffective because to dig out the posts, you need to dig a wider hole to get everything out, this makes the foam mold like a top pattern which doesn't help keep the post level nor sturdy. Here's my recommendation to people. Buy the expansion foam, but ALSO use the concrete. Dip the posts in the foam mixture so that it SEALS the concrete from absorbing water over time, and then use the concrete to set the posts. This is a modern take on the Japanese Shou Sugi Ban technique.
I've found that when using the cement, you want to build a bit of a mound above the dirt level. Just pouring it flat, especially below the dirt level, means the water is going to pool at the base of the post. So you could have made it nice and deep with lots of concrete but 10-15 years it will have rotted out at the top of the concrete. Gotta have water running away from the post and no dirt on it.
I'm in Chicago a fence guy around here uses crushed rock instead of concrete it drains better and post doesn't rot and reduces the chance of dislodging, I was wondering if wrapping the post in joist tape or something else would prevent rotting as well extra layer of security
I can always tell when people digging post holes on UA-cam don't live in New England. There's no easy way to do it with rocks (boulders?) of various sizes every few inches. That's the solution we would love to learn.
Great vid considering I'm about to replace some posts. So with the rapid post set concrete, is there any need to put some gravel in the bottom of the how first? Or would you suggest doing so? Thanks!
I used the foam method for my mailbox post.. I would not use it for anything that would see lateral movement (fence posts in windy areas).. and nothing that is load bearing
Great video. Was leaning toward the foam for a new fence install but will probably go with quick-set concrete based on these results. Also, what was the tool you used to lever the posts back out of the ground? I have some shrub stumps I'd like to pull out in the same manner.
@@SweetyetS0ur Aye summer filming, although it has been very warm though for the most part. At least here in Alberta outside a week or so of really nasty weather.
So, i really want to go with the Rapid Post. I'm only building a t-post fence gate, not a porch, nothing that humans will walk on, just an open/close fence gate for mowers and my dog. I want to hold the t-posts in the ground with rapid post. Would that be an okay move? I do live in the south. All the way in Savannah, GA.
Regarding the foam…it two distinct advantages, extremely light weight, and not very messy, and pretty easy to use. You DO have to move fast. In a static row of fencing it would work great, but for a corner or gate post, it won’t have the durability of concrete. And it is way more expensive. It was $12 when I bought it, and I thought that was steep. We had 2 posts where we tried it, and after five years of regular use of the gate, it is showing signs of needing to be replaced.
if you have the opportunity, can you do a video on putting up a fence going up a hill. I have a short hill but enough that it may be a problem for dogs to jump the fence if they get the angle right. Also sight lines to get privacy. Another issue I have is I have an 8-foot fence, but I can see into my neighbor's backyard from my bedroom window. Which also means they can see into my bedroom. What are some elegant ways to increase privacy for both of us? It is in a location where the window is about 6 foot from the fence. Thanks for the videos.
Depends upon the soil too. At a 4' depth the post should not move that much once set. The dirt will give under pressure creating space for post movement. The dry pour surprised me tho.
Thanks for sharing this. For your friends in western Canada, what would be the equivalent of the dry pour concrete as we have different stuff (seems to all be quickcrete products)? Same like for drywall mud, what we have available the west is slightly different than in the east (for example, we can't get the brown mud, even at the drywall stores) The possible equivalents I can see are either the 'red bag' fast set stuff, or we also have a product called 'post haste' available which is supposed to be a fast setting 20 min concrete you can use for fence and deck posts. If you are around Thunder Bay you can grab a bag, or I might be able to send to you to test it.
Actually, after doing a bit more digging it looks like the red bag quickcrete might be the winner. Based on the Manufacturer's own specs it looks like the post haste may be overhyped, overpriced, and too fast-setting for questionable strength.
@@user-sm6lt9mf9t Ah so some further research suggests Quikrete in Ontario is a different company than in the west where it looks to be made by Target Products. So even that's not the same stuff!
Wonder if the pour before the post insert is what made the difference in the rapid post since it was the only one to penetrate to the bottom of the post 🤔
I wonder what the GHG carbon intensity for each method. I would think the helical pile, but I am sure some knows the science between the production and shipping of concrete, foam, and steel???
Jeff said he didn’t see value of the foam. Although it may not have secured the post as well, nobody is breaking their back loading it in and out of truck beds or carry the stuff to the site.
And I think it's especially suited to non-structural stuff: mailboxes, signs, etc. It's also practically foolproof. No mixing ratios to get right, etc.
Do you think the dry pour rapid post would hold up in Ontario climate? I was a bit confused by your comments. Used a slab might not work but as a post footing, do you think it will crack like that or probably not because it’s contained in a hole? Great video
I dont know if u consider Rapid Post the same as a bag of Dry Sacrete. Put water in the hole, pour your bag or 2 of Sacrete, plunge eith a rod and let her go?
I think that is just deeper than the frost line where they are at. But I never actually see anyone go as deep as 4'. Unless those guys are 8' tall, those holes they dug are no bigger than 2.5' deep.
Soils vary, but I would never use concrete (and probably not foam either) to bury a fence post in the US Midwest. Ask a farmer. Clay soils dam in moisture. Concrete is a sponge. 8 inches of rock at the bottom of the hole, then a concrete disk (or cultivator disk) as a stable platform, then more rock, and then tamp ALL of the soil back into the hole. Goal is to send any water to the bottom of the hole below the post. That all being said, I will use steel in any future fencing endeavors…pressure treated is worthless since they removed the arsenic. I will use concrete with the steel.
Pair of legends. Absolutely love jeff. I'm sure there are thousands similar to me out there because of jeff. Started watching him years ago. Gave me the confidence and knowledge to do my own bathroom, then a fence, then a patio, fireplace reno, kitchen and other bathroom - did the whole house. Saved probably 100k and enjoyed every minute of it. People found my work and I started getting paid to do it. More bathrooms, ktichens, fences, etc. Paid off my wife's student loans in no time. So if you read this Jeff- I want you to think of the thousands of folks you helped out there.
Maybe millions....hard to get your head around. The man is singlehandedly making the lack of housing crisis- a little less severe
The hero we need, but perhaps not the one we deserve. Thanks Uncle Jeff!.
Even if he doesn’t, I am very excited by your success!!
I like the guy but if I were you I'd take his advice to an extent but also look at other professionals to get a good overview and tips for a project.
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing your story
I've been doing fences for many years and we always just pour regular quickcrete dry in the hole add the dirt get the post level tamper it down. Build the fence. Check each post with bottom and top string then add a little water around each post. Idk where ur at but where I live the ground is wet enough for the concrete to get hard already. No need to wait for them to set for a day or brace up. Do the whole fence in one day. Never had a problem or call back
Where are you located?
Myrtle beach SC
the cure time is different for dry pour. Where it's a 27 day full cure for mixed, a dry pour can be up to double. It's pulling in moisture for a much longer time and has a slower cure process, but will eventually be full strength. For fence posts, its more than sufficient. I even did a dry pour concrete slab and after a year, not a single hairline fracture. Im in TN
My dad's family had a special tool they called a "tamper", homemade. When they began to refill the hole around the post, they would tamp or pack the dirt down hard. I am 69 years old and they were here before I was. I have done the same thing and the posts are pretty sturdy. They have held cows and horses, which if they are tame, doesn't take much.
AGREED. My Dad did it this way, and now I do it this way. Why not just tamp down the dirt you already have? It makes it easier to replace and holds posts good enough.
YES! Lowe's sells what they call a *"69-in Post-hole Digging Bar"*
It has a flat end for tamping dirt, and a flared end for digging. I've been using it for years to tamp soil around my posts, and they are just as solid as using cement.
@@lpnelson6584 frost. If you live in cold climates, it'll slowly pull it out of the ground.
Modern woods will also rot in soil. The pressure treating isn't what it used to be.
I set a mailbox post two years ago with a different option. It's called Simpson Strong-tie easy Spike. It basically consists of a metal spike with a bracket for a 4x4 post at the top. Installing it was as simple as setting a sacrificial piece of 4x4 in the bracket and driving it into the ground with a sledgehammer. Then just set your post in the bracket, plum and level, and screw in place. Rock solid and if the post ever gets hit by a car or rots out it's as simple as taking a few screws out and setting a new post in the bracket. They make a longer version for fence posts. I have one sitting in my garage for a upcoming project where I have to remove part of a privacy fence and don't want to pour cement to replace the post.
I used the same thing for my mailbox. It's been hit twice and all I did was bent it and the post back to vertical and slap a new mailbox on top.
Haven’t watched yet, but THIS is the only circumstance where a dry pour is appropriate. I already know that’s how Jeff is going to do it.
Love his ability to discern for us when it is appropriate to take the easy route.
Thanks Jeff! You Rock!
I have always used the dry pour and at times I will put a few galvanized nail into the post which assist the retention to the post. Also I do the same with vinyl fence posts. My neighbor had a fence company come in and put up a fence and after two years they had posts where already lifting.
That's a smart trick! It's like and easy rebar with a tie down for the post. Thank you!
Hehe I do the same, but before that, I rap duck tape around the bottom half just above the ground to stop rain from rotting the base
I like using the foam for things that may need to be moved or replaced. Like satellite dishes, or similar. Makes removal a breeze.
Good idea
I have had good luck with digging the post a little bit deeper than required, throw post down and when pouring concrete, lift up a tad to allow concrete to flow completely around post and bottom of it. then quickly set/level/plumb post to correct height ect. Along with making concrete a little on the wet side. really fills in the gaps and flows right around the post. with it a bit wetter than normal, it does take a little bit of extra time and focus to keep level. depending on the job, and especially if its for home, I would recommend it. have had great success so far. Always open for new methods and ways.
great show as i have some fence posts to put in next year, and I need one for the gate. Now i know what to pick up. very helpful
Rapid post looks like the clear winner to me. I will have to see what its going for in my area assuming I can get it (thats an issue here often with products). For a few years I have been wanting to drop a few posts around an old concrete slab we have outback, just 3 or 4 posts for a kind of windbreak and privacy fence. I dont have the back anymore to do concrete unless I just did one at a time taking day or so breaks between, and I dont really have the budget for foam (would basically cost as much or more than the rest of the project finished). But that rapid post dry pour stuff seems the ticket at just a little more than concrete but also very easy to work with and no ticking clock until you are already done.
Looked it up, can get its for $7.33 a bag here! perfect!
You put an extra half bag into the rapidpost hole - so it'd obviously be heavier. plus more material at the top of the hole, so less wobble.
Plus they didn't put cement in the bottom of the first post, the procedures definitely caused the outcomes to be biased.
They used two bags of cement on the first hole
Blueskin flashing tape around the post up to 2 inches above soil line to prevent rot. And really compact the soil around it. You'll never have to worry about boulders under your lawn. And the packed dirt is solid.
I used the foam for lamppost when that product first came out. It has held up just fine, surprisingly
The foam negatively impacts the life & habitat of the San Acitos dirt shrew :(
Doesn't get much better doing DIY experiments with you kid... Beautiful ❤👏🏾👏🏾
I’m so glad i watched til the end I thought you were saying dry pour is good at first 😅I been building fences and decks 20 plus years all I use is quickset concrete. I can hang a gate in an hour on a hot day. For big jobs we use the regular quickcrete but rarely and we always mix all the concrete dry pour does NOT mix all the way through!!!
Thanks!
Just what I need! Gonna put a fence out back this summer.
I believe you can use just about any concrete dry mix the same way as the Rapid Post. I've done that with some standard ready mix and it worked just fine for me.
Definitely information I can use! Now, about that flat black post holder, would that be considered 'temporary" fencing? I guess I'll have to wait to find out...waiting :)
Thank you! I just poured some quick mix this morning down here in Louisiana. Love it!
Hi Jeff. The way I was taught to set a post here in SW Ontario, was to auger a 8" hole 3' deep, put 6" of dry concrete in the hole, (half a bag) add some water, place the post and back-fill with soil. My fence has been up for 15 years and there has been no movement. The frost shouldn't catch the smooth fence post, and the ball of cement at the bottom will not rise or sink. I was told that all the post needs is a firm bottom so it will not sink. I do believe my method works. Thoughts?
So you don't have the post in concrete? I always thought the main reason for the concrete is to protect the post from rot.
Thanks! I’m building a few arbours in Edmonton and have been looking at all 4 of these options! Cool seeing them compared. For my use I just bought the regular concrete.
That was really good and really informative! Funny too! Saving this video!
We have heavy clay here. All we ever do is put the post in, and throw in dry concrete. There is already water in the hole by the time we start. It will stay wet and cure just fine over time.
We have a 36" frost line here. Usually take a post hole digger and widen the base of the hole after auguring it out. That way it tapers and will never come up.
There's a popular channel here in the UK (Proper DIY) where he did the same as you and tested various methods and came up with the exact same results however, he (Stuart) didn't try the last method as I don't think we have those here. We do have fence post spikes where you have to hammer them home but not those exact same things as far as I'm aware.
I've got a massive fence to get put up at some point here and while I'm still researching the best method to use, I think I'll be going the concrete mix (first method) and using one of those massive vibrating rods to settle the concrete. Just looking at ways to maximise the longevity of the posts. So far thinking of tanalised posts, coat the bottom in bitumen, concrete in hold, post in, rest of concrete to the top angling the concrete downwards to take water away.
That was fun to watch. Thank you for sharing!
This was interesting. I've heard sika boom shrinks after awhile so it isn't good for posts.
There has to be a better way to drive that metal helical drill in without going in circles. Maybe getting a shorter board and spinning it while standing in place? Or finding a way to attach a drill to spin it? LOL.
We used dry pour concrete for gate posts. A hurricane hit and the gate posts snapped off at ground level. Meanwhile, trees next to the fence had fell over and their roots came up.
There is another method that wasn't shown here: the key method, but it involves a lot more digging. You dig down and put a horizontal ground rated pressure treated board up against the post to brace it from side to side. You make sure the dirt fills in around it enough that you can put another horizontal board in perpendicular and on top of the first board. I think the boards need to be about 24". If you fill in properly, they brace the post so it won't tip. Then you back fill on top of the boards to hide them.
Long time viewer. Love how you show different methods for the posts.
Would love to see a video on how to form a steps for concrete pour.
I used the foam option for a mailbox post cuz I didnt want to deal with concrete, after I poured it in I put a piece of plywood over it with a cutout for the post, so kinda C shaped, and I stood on it and held the post level while it expanded. It was easy to cut the little excess off that spilled out between the post and plywood, and its been very solid for 3 years now. I don't think Id use it for fence posts though.
Jeff's vibe is somewhere between Tim 'the Toolman' Tailor and Bob Vila and I'm 100% here for it.
Yep, cocky, arrogant, doesn't know shit, shows everyone how not to do home improvement.
Thank you for this demonstration. Helped me know I did my deck correctly.
Excellent video! Nothing like a real-world test to see how a product works. I worked in the signage industry for decades and I've installed thousands of footers. Our engineers would always freak out if we ever dry-poured any smaller footings like for directional signs. I wonder if there is really any difference between a bag of Quikrete and the stuff you used?
I almost fell off my chair laughing when I saw him pour the cement in the hole without a post in it……😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
And it was still the strongest of the three!
@@devinflint5554 I need to get me some of that Canadian concrete…👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
That’s how it is supposed to work… especially when installing vinyl fence, which is hollow.
It’s concrete
Why? What's so comical about it?
Good to know nobody is ever removing the fence posts I put in (dry pour). My Brother-in-Law works for city parks and one of the old-timers said you could even just pour the dry concrete and leave it and it would eventually suck up enough moisture from the ground to harden on its own (if you're *really* not in a hurry).
And that’s still perfect for posts, unless you put weight on it.
My brother found another method. Filled the hole with sand and watered it down. His posts are solid.🙂
The method I've been using for years is similar but I use course gravel instead. It stays very ridged, but can be removed more easily than with concrete. Mainly though it lets water drain away from the post
That's ok but..due to regular moisture the log is damaged in surface level and cut above surface..
Jeff, you are a novice gal DYIers best bud. Thanks.
Could you do one using gravel. I've heard it's a good way to secure a post and it drains freely too.
Yes - that's my prefered method.
@@georgeblakey7730 Is it strong enough? What type and size gravel?
@@michaelbirchall2247 I use 3/4" rough gravel (sharp edges not rounded), with a layer in the bottom before placing the post, and I tamp it in layers as I put it in. The posts are very stiff in the hole when done. Here in the foothills of the Rocky Mtns we get very strong winds and my fence posts never seem to move.
@@georgeblakey7730 That's awesome, thank you!
looooove these comparison videos!
Jeff's turning into Hercules with that first post!
Just found Jeff a couple of days ago. Learning as I go. Just curious as to why you didn't use the old time method of putting all the dirt you took out of the hole, back into the hole. I did that on a fence to keep the kids in when they were young and then watched the landlord try to pull them out after we left. He to use a bobcat to get them out. Sometimes the old ways are still some of the best. Time to do a little binge watching.
Once the post is in the hole, fill the hole up halfway with water, THEN add the dry concrete. Always add dry to wet!
Thanks for this!
Looks like you're ready to do a Cabor toss great video
wow this was so informative! thanks so much! my fence recently fell down in some high winds (and it wasnt in very deep to begin with)... need to repair it
Jeff you missed one other method and that is just filling the hole with road crush or angular gravel. The advantage of this method is when the post does rot in 20 years you can pull the out and replace it in the same spot. With concrete you are not getting the block of concrete out without some serious work.
No concrete for me .... I'll never get it out.
Thanks for the info. It is very helpful to know the differences
Is one bag of quickdry enough for the post?
hi, how is the quick concrete bad again? unless i intend to pull it out and hit it with a sledge hammer...i am not understanding it since it is the sturdiest when underground.
Freeze thaw cycle. The ground freezing is like a sledge hammer hitting it in slow motion. It will turn the concrete to dust after a few seasons.
I always poke down around the post with mixed concrete to pop air gaps and make sure it is full of concrete. I used a piece of rebar.
Love love love love love you, your post about putting in posts, it's genius, thank you!
You can set the post using the same method as the rapid post with just a standard bag of concrete mix.
So for a fence, maybe the takeaway is: concrete with a vibrator (maybe some gravel first?). Taring the post section below grade adds a lot to longevity also. Jeff, do they make helical piles for fence posts, or just point load?
You can use helical pile for a fence sure. I would probably say it's the "best but probably overkill and most expensive" option. Here in Canada or any northern states Helical Piles makes most sense because our frozen line is way deeper.
Great demo
How much time before the wood in cement (or foam) starts rotting? I am wondering what is the best way for a post fence in order to stay plumb and not rotting for the longest period of time in northern Canada?
Use gravel instead - the water will drain away if the water table is lower than the post bottom.
When I did my fence, I found this great metal post product online that had holes, and an open channel design, that meant never worrying about the posts rotting, and much smaller diameter holes to dig and less cement to use. But I can’t find them anymore.
I live within 20 miles of Mammoth Cave. The land here is known as Karst. Rock is guaranteed by the time you reach 1 foot. How am I supposed to dig a post hole...or 40?
Jeff, can you add some commentary about the screw in? Didn’t really get the same tests done it 🤔
I would generally advise against helical piles (as shown here) for fence posts as the only strength for the fence post is vertical. Any horizontal load, especially perpendicular to the fence (i.e. wind) would easily start to stress the wood at the connection point and eventually will fail.
Also, check your local building codes and soil conditions as Helical Piles in my city must be engineered for anything requiring a permit. And the soil around here is clay and rocks. Even engineered powered in helical piles are a struggle around here.
@@JohnnyCoulthard Also , one Helical pile per post is wayyyy more expensive than any other method. probably not worth it.
The dry pour one will get stronger with time as is absorbs more moisture. It'll be interesting to see if it will break that easily after a couple of months and a few rain pours.
1 year later vids showed it to be strongest
@@HerbertMetzger-kt8ul
On this channel?
Thanks for the video! I’ve been wanting to put up posts for a while now to install a shade sail in our backyard. My issue is, for this application, all posts would be free-standing and not tied into any other structure. Is it even possible to install a free-standing post and not have it pitch and move drastically over time? I was even contemplating helical piles. Not very confident about that option after watching this video. Any recommendations would be appreciated, I’m at a loss for how to proceed. Thanks in advance for any input.
Mr. Jeff, I've learned soooo much from your videos all these years, I feel like you are a family member, so please don't pull and strain 😢 we need you to take care of yourself! ❤
Just saw a comparison video elsewhere with Sika vs Fast 2k and sika lost, Do you have a video testing out Fast 2k brand setting foam? I just love your videos and trust your opinion on it too!
Good Video!! Thank you :)
I tried the expansion foam because the previous posts set in concrete were rotted - sadly the foam was ineffective because to dig out the posts, you need to dig a wider hole to get everything out, this makes the foam mold like a top pattern which doesn't help keep the post level nor sturdy. Here's my recommendation to people. Buy the expansion foam, but ALSO use the concrete. Dip the posts in the foam mixture so that it SEALS the concrete from absorbing water over time, and then use the concrete to set the posts. This is a modern take on the Japanese Shou Sugi Ban technique.
I've found that when using the cement, you want to build a bit of a mound above the dirt level. Just pouring it flat, especially below the dirt level, means the water is going to pool at the base of the post. So you could have made it nice and deep with lots of concrete but 10-15 years it will have rotted out at the top of the concrete. Gotta have water running away from the post and no dirt on it.
Always great content. Thank you.
I'm in Chicago a fence guy around here uses crushed rock instead of concrete it drains better and post doesn't rot and reduces the chance of dislodging, I was wondering if wrapping the post in joist tape or something else would prevent rotting as well extra layer of security
It's oldschool, all electric post was setup that way with crushed rock, and tar paint. now you can still burn the ground part
Can I rebuild a fence in sections? How about use holes posts are in?
This guy is awesome!!!
So dry pour for the win ! I’m saving this video 😮
Thats only if you live in the south.
@@charlyrodzzWhat if you live in the Midwest? Also these videos are made in Canada lol.
@@xaviermccloud4586 yeah you can't use dry pour in Canada, lol that wont hold after 1 season.
I can always tell when people digging post holes on UA-cam don't live in New England. There's no easy way to do it with rocks (boulders?) of various sizes every few inches. That's the solution we would love to learn.
Great vid considering I'm about to replace some posts. So with the rapid post set concrete, is there any need to put some gravel in the bottom of the how first? Or would you suggest doing so? Thanks!
I used the foam method for my mailbox post.. I would not use it for anything that would see lateral movement (fence posts in windy areas).. and nothing that is load bearing
Great video. Was leaning toward the foam for a new fence install but will probably go with quick-set concrete based on these results.
Also, what was the tool you used to lever the posts back out of the ground? I have some shrub stumps I'd like to pull out in the same manner.
We used a farmer jack. Glad the video was helpful. Cheers!
Wow it looks warm in Canada this winter
this was filmed over summer
@@SweetyetS0ur Aye summer filming, although it has been very warm though for the most part. At least here in Alberta outside a week or so of really nasty weather.
So, i really want to go with the Rapid Post. I'm only building a t-post fence gate, not a porch, nothing that humans will walk on, just an open/close fence gate for mowers and my dog. I want to hold the t-posts in the ground with rapid post. Would that be an okay move? I do live in the south. All the way in Savannah, GA.
Regarding the foam…it two distinct advantages, extremely light weight, and not very messy, and pretty easy to use. You DO have to move fast. In a static row of fencing it would work great, but for a corner or gate post, it won’t have the durability of concrete. And it is way more expensive. It was $12 when I bought it, and I thought that was steep. We had 2 posts where we tried it, and after five years of regular use of the gate, it is showing signs of needing to be replaced.
Great video and demo--thanks!!!
Jeff. Where did you get that helical post, that you had to turn and turn?
What about using limestone screenings?
if you have the opportunity, can you do a video on putting up a fence going up a hill. I have a short hill but enough that it may be a problem for dogs to jump the fence if they get the angle right. Also sight lines to get privacy. Another issue I have is I have an 8-foot fence, but I can see into my neighbor's backyard from my bedroom window. Which also means they can see into my bedroom. What are some elegant ways to increase privacy for both of us? It is in a location where the window is about 6 foot from the fence. Thanks for the videos.
Depends upon the soil too. At a 4' depth the post should not move that much once set. The dirt will give under pressure creating space for post movement. The dry pour surprised me tho.
Question my instructions tell me the tub spout should not be more than 11” below the valve, what are your thoughts.
You're supposed to agitate and tamper wet concrete to make sure it's all the way down and around the post.
Exactly. This is why the quick post cement mix broke apart so easily.
I had to repeat to see if I heard you correctly regarding the truck. I’m anxiously waiting to see you knock these with your truck.
Thanks for sharing this.
For your friends in western Canada, what would be the equivalent of the dry pour concrete as we have different stuff (seems to all be quickcrete products)? Same like for drywall mud, what we have available the west is slightly different than in the east (for example, we can't get the brown mud, even at the drywall stores)
The possible equivalents I can see are either the 'red bag' fast set stuff, or we also have a product called 'post haste' available which is supposed to be a fast setting 20 min concrete you can use for fence and deck posts. If you are around Thunder Bay you can grab a bag, or I might be able to send to you to test it.
Actually, after doing a bit more digging it looks like the red bag quickcrete might be the winner. Based on the Manufacturer's own specs it looks like the post haste may be overhyped, overpriced, and too fast-setting for questionable strength.
@@user-sm6lt9mf9tI think they sell a quickrete fence n post. Do they have that out west?
@@YellowBunchofBananas It might be what they call Post Haste here. Haven't actually seen the fence n post yet.
@@user-sm6lt9mf9t Ah so some further research suggests Quikrete in Ontario is a different company than in the west where it looks to be made by Target Products. So even that's not the same stuff!
Wonder if the pour before the post insert is what made the difference in the rapid post since it was the only one to penetrate to the bottom of the post 🤔
Do u have a chain link or wood fence build video. Wanna try to do the work this spring. Had estimates over $6500 cant pay it now
I'm curious if the dry pour would have cured more over a longer time from absorbing ground water. Do a test after a year to determine hardness.
Wouldn’t the value of the foam be it’s resistance to water and heat/cold cycle that would crack the cement?
Now which method is best for deck attached to house method?
I wonder what the GHG carbon intensity for each method.
I would think the helical pile, but I am sure some knows the science between the production and shipping of concrete, foam, and steel???
Jeff said he didn’t see value of the foam. Although it may not have secured the post as well, nobody is breaking their back loading it in and out of truck beds or carry the stuff to the site.
And I think it's especially suited to non-structural stuff: mailboxes, signs, etc. It's also practically foolproof. No mixing ratios to get right, etc.
Do you think the dry pour rapid post would hold up in Ontario climate? I was a bit confused by your comments. Used a slab might not work but as a post footing, do you think it will crack like that or probably not because it’s contained in a hole?
Great video
Even if it cracks it's in a narrow 4 ft deep hole, it'll still stay in one piece and perform like before.
As always, Great Content!
what lowes did he buy his post foam from because in my area its $15 and can be bought in bulk even cheaper
I dont know if u consider Rapid Post the same as a bag of Dry Sacrete.
Put water in the hole, pour your bag or 2 of Sacrete, plunge eith a rod and let her go?
Very good video!
4' deep? Is that your areas frost line or in general for a fence or deck post?
I think that is just deeper than the frost line where they are at. But I never actually see anyone go as deep as 4'. Unless those guys are 8' tall, those holes they dug are no bigger than 2.5' deep.
Hey guy😂 great show, one thing I noticed your first post cement seems to be a little dry may have to re do it. Lol 😊
Love seeing the wind turbines in the back. I don't know why.
Soils vary, but I would never use concrete (and probably not foam either) to bury a fence post in the US Midwest. Ask a farmer. Clay soils dam in moisture. Concrete is a sponge. 8 inches of rock at the bottom of the hole, then a concrete disk (or cultivator disk) as a stable platform, then more rock, and then tamp ALL of the soil back into the hole. Goal is to send any water to the bottom of the hole below the post. That all being said, I will use steel in any future fencing endeavors…pressure treated is worthless since they removed the arsenic. I will use concrete with the steel.