WHS is dreadful. Low handicappers are now hardly ever in contention in Club Competitions as there will always be a mid-handicapper with 44 points or a Net 65.
They aren’t interested in the elite/low handicap players in club competitions. That is clearly obvious. I don’t even bother with club comps, only the scratch knockout and club champs.
Our club comp uses gross and net scores so the best (low handicap guys) are the regular winners while the mid to high handicap guys tussle it out for the best net score trophy…win, win!
In Denmark most club competitions are divided into A, B and C groups (sometimes even D) according to handicaps. This means that you normally will compete against players that are within 10 to 15 strokes of yourself. You will still get the odd 44 points winner but that will typically be because he/she had a good day, not because they have manipulated their handicap. Typically good scores also come on days where the weather and the course is good. WHS might be a little complicated but it works IMO. We have used the course rating minus par for more than 25 years and with a system very similar to WHS. I hardly ever experience players that are cheating on the HDC anymore.
Lots of Clubs still have Divisions in Medal Competitions, as was the case before WHS. Simple divisions are Div 1 up to 9 handicap, Div 2 10-18 handicap, Div 3 19-54. Should keep everyone happy Oh wait, that is impossible, 😂 Then 19 handicap golfers would be victims of banditry from higher handicaps.
I have yet to meet any low single digit player who has anything good to say about WHS. Let's see if these "changes" make any difference in terms of fairness for the low handicappers.
I too Loath this system with the old system you knew exactly where you stood . If you played well below par you were rewarded with a drop in handicap or you were in the buffer zone or outside but your handicap would only go up point 1 . With this new system you were never sure were you stood with handicap
Thanks for the update. I am a new match secretary this year. I’m finding it hard to try and explain WHS changes to our more elderly members and this is very challenging. I also don’t think there are enough safeguards for cheating. I’ve heard many people play general rounds before big competitions to get their handicap raised. I also don’t like that I cannot submit rounds in other countries as EG app is not compatible in these countries.
It's easy - if 9 holes played, a formula based expected score is added as score differential to the SD of the 9 holes played. Not an intelectual challenge at all.
I must have miss understood the reason for slope rating with WHS as I believed that was what changed your h/cp due to the difficulty or ease of the course being played, why this added confusion?
I am late to all this WHS, I usually play by myself or a friend who on the old system was like off 18 I think. So whenever I went for a knock with him, it would be me like 27 handicap and him off 18. But I stopped playing over covid, only just come back to it, totally lost, I have a tracker thing I signed up to, as I'm not a member anywhere, entered rounds and my handicap went from 28.1 on the old system and it said "you're using the pre whatever old system, to you want to record in the new WHS system" I clicked yes and I went up to like 31 something so I am completely lost with it all 😅
Between the confusing new rules for handicap which nobody can figure out on their own and the ball rollback proposal, I think the golf rules wizards are trying to drive people away from just enjoying the game. Simple is better.
As a new golfer that took it up two years ago I don’t understand the whole handicap system, my Garmin watch says my handicap is 23, I don’t want to play with mates that are better golfers and have them give me strokes, if it is a Par5 I want to make it in 5 for my own satisfaction not be given strokes, it’s what drives me to get better. Have I got it all wrong?
I have a friend who thinks like this as well. I'm a 8 he doesn't have a handicap but I'd guess he is a 15. He wants to compete with me on a no shots basis. Although that's very good of him, long term it won't make the match competitive. On average I'll beat him by 7 shots every time we play if both of us, neither improved or got worse. It's the only sport that players from different abilities can actually have a fair competition with each other it's what makes the sport great. You should want to play with people better than you as much as you can. The amount you'll learn would be great for your game. The people giving you shots will understand why they are giving you them to so they shouldn't feel bad about it either. They'll come a point when you do improve and you might start wiping the floor with them or in competitions and some people may turn around and call you a bandit. Most people just have a joke with the saying but others do say it seriously. You shouldn't take offence to this if you have been putting in cards (If you want to get an official handicap) and you are improving a lot. A higher handicap will drop lower faster than a lower handicapper will just because they have more low hanging fruit to improve on. I remember in the old handicap system years ago I was a max handicap of 28 and got down to 15 fairly quickly. Just enjoy the game and have fun!
Glad to know I'm not alone. I started playing in 1965 and don't think the word handicap was ever mentioned by anyone I ever played with through the 80s. I left golf for fatherhood in the late 80s and when I returned in earnest in '23, all I ever heard was "handicap". Luckily, I play alone a lot, or with a couple of friends. I play the course because I want to know how I can do on the course. (If I'm having a bad day, I don't bother with a score. I just hit shots.) But I don't care if I can "beat" some guy because he gives me 7 shots- Hey, I didn't actually beat him and wouldn't want such a "victory". What a joke. I just want to play the game. I'd never watch the game again if Zach Johnson could beat Scotty, Victor, Jon, etc in the Masters because he was given 10 shots.
Not a fan, I think it is a cheats charter. On the old system medals were won by a couple of shots below the SSS on average, now that wouldn't even get you on the first page of scores, with medals / open competitions regularly being won with scores of 10 below.
The system works if everyone submits their scores regularly, sadly there are too many people allowing their money to be taken by people not submitting cards (which is cheating)
Loath this system. As an amateur golfer who plays for enjoyment with friends with a similar outlook all the WHS does for me is turn me off entering competitions and trying to improve my handicap. I do not want to spend more time talking about handicap systems than enjoying the game. It is a perfect example of the 'faceless' people who make up these rules to make themselves feel important (in my opinion). Did any of these people ask anyone at grassroots golf for any input????
I spoke to WHS before the system was imposed and told them that for the ordinary club golfer, introducing a system allowing for handicaps up to 52 for new players would ruin it for them and if I was required to play such a golfer with such an outlandish handicap I would just refuse and concede rather than unnecessarily beating my brains out, it wouldn’t be enjoyable. The bean counter concerned could not understand or give a damn. I was convinced that he was a non golfer
Looks like you've started a debate, Paul. Funny that WHS has had a real polarising effect on players. Do you happen to have a handicap secretary's perspective from Fulford? I know the fella at our spot has had ups and downs with it.
Hi Kev. I know right! I don’t have their perspective, is suspect it’s easier as there are no manual adjustments now. We have a criteria of having at least 3 qualifying scores per year for a valid comp hcap.
@@GolfShowhi Paul just to ask is it a local rule at your club about three cards in to keep handicap per year as there is no such rule as mentioned by the Yorkshire Union at a local meeting earlier this year.
@@davidgreen9063hi David. Thanks for commenting. I suspect I’ve got that wrong then, apologies. That was certainly the case pre WHS. However, does that mean all handicaps are always ‘active’, even if a player hasn’t put a card in for say a year?
@@GolfShow Hi Paul I did ask that question,as long as the player in question has had an initial handicap (three cards in)and has been issued a membership number,then decides to quit for a year or so,then my understanding was as long as he had the lifetime membership number he would come back on his original handicap.Even if he joined another club.Got to reiterate that was my understanding from the meeting earlier this year.
Since the whs was introduced 2plus yrs ago and 70 plus comps only 2 single figure players have won a medal/Stapleford 1 of them being myself had to shoot 4 under my handicap (play off 5) won by 1 shot guy in 2nd place handicap 25 so no incentive to improve for the higher handicap player as they can win everything without playing out of their skin.its not their fault its the idiots in charge lots of decent players don't bother in comps now as they say whats the point so costing the club money in the long run
Some interesting changes coming, Paul. I like the transparency of WHS. I hear a lot of moaning about it but generally from the folks who are at their happiest when they have something to moan about. I think it's pretty straightforward tbh.
@GolfShow will this make it a level playing field? Will winning scores become achievable by the whole field? Or will it still be ridiculous scores winning club comps. Last year out course record was broken on a Saturday and he wasn't within 3 shots of the winning score. Its a shit system. The old system every round you ever played counted towards your index, you had to battle for buffer zone to avoid going up, if you beat your handicap it would cone down. Last year I shot level par, which was my best round for months and my index went up because a 2 under dropped out of my 20 rounds... 💩
It's generally people failing to understand the intention. Your index is trying to calculate your CURRENT playing ability. That is derived from 8 qualifying scores of your most recent 20 rounds. Under the old system, if you scored 42 points, you'd have got a 6 x 0.3 = 1.8 and potentially a discretionary 2 shot cut. So a genuine 15 who has a day out be playing from 11 and drift back up at 0.1 each round. It could be 3 years before they played off 15 again! Under this system that won't happen. The "day out" round will reduce their HC by 1 immediately but more importantly it will reflect their CURRENT ability (or recent) and not what you did one day 2 years ago. High HCs coming in with 40 plus has always been a thing and will be Under any system because of statistical variance. They shoot more blobs and more 3 or 4 pointers than low handicappers. On days when they manage not to shoot so many blobs, the score racks up quick but it's not a bad system - it's just misused by people who think it's ok to game the system to win (again something that happens in any system)
People are paying too much attention to WHS and how it may, or may not affect their handicap. Just remember good old CONGU, where most if not all of these changes, and previous ones, were built into calculations. Simple thing to do, go out, play golf, enjoy it, let computer and committee sort out the score. Stick to this simple principle, golf will be easier, and, much more enjoyable.
@@peterbaker4395 that’s a strange response to my answer. When I play in a competition, a member of handicap committee has my score card ready for me, with my whs, course, and playing handicap on it. I then enter my score, either hole by hole, on given app, or when I am finished, into the computer at the club, or on my phone using an app, take a picture of my signed card, send it to my nominated handicap committee member, then score is verified by committee member, and it becomes a confirmed score. A Committee member is involved all the way through the process, and when all cards are in and verified, the official result is published by a committee member, usually the Handicap Secretary, or appointed deputy, and the result is final.
Overall I like the WHS. What I'd really like to see is removing any differences between genders. Yes I know that typically men hit further than women, but surely that's exactly the kind of thing the handicap addresses. As for high handicappers getting an advantage in competitions, surely that's simply a case of reducing the playing handicap percentage.
I would also like to see the board used properly , like if a woman wants to participate in what is a yellow tee comp then her handicap comes from the ladies yellow board and that is the tee to play from , no ladies off forward tee or yellow tee and red index plus 3 shots at our club , or why what is the yellow and white tee ladies list for SHOW!!!
It works as long as people put a significant number of cards in. I would like to see people having to put in at least 10 cards gained in competitions a year to allow them to enter competitions the year after. There are so many sandbaggers out there it is hardly worth entering open comps as you know some high handicapper will come in with a ridiculous score.
Whs is the biggest pile of crap ever, it incentivises players to get worse so they can win more prizes, as a 40 yr cat 1 player i cant compete with 50pts 4bbb and net 62s in medal play so giving up comps thanks r&a for nothing 💩💩
I'm currently off 12.2 but have had a significant lower back injury for two years. Meaning that I don't have any scores left in this system, & the club policy is for having 12 registered scores in the previous 12 months. So I could easily play any game & put in stupidly high casual round scores to inflate my handicap. I refuse to do that. The handicap system is an ass. I just prefer to go out & play the best I can. Not concerned with winning competitions unfairly.
More shots, yipppeeee. We dont see enough stupid scores winning already, 50 points is now a regular occurrence in pairs and 100 points in a 4 man team. I'm seriousy thinking of knocking competitive golf on the head.
I think theWHS is absolutely dreadful. It is very difficult to understand and most people play golf to enjoy themselves, not to engage in convoluted rules. The purpose of this system was stated to mean that you could playanyone in the world off an international handicap. The old system of handicaps in this country was understood and I am sorry it was changed and becomes more and more complicated. I think it was dreamed up by bean counters rather than golfers.
Simple fact is, those that wish to protect their handicap will always do so regardless of the solution. Thats what is killing the game, players playing off high handicaps tha can easily play to single figures. I've seen it in almost every major event I enter, singles and pairs. It just seems like the acceptable norm to me and very few players strive to achieve the lowest handicap they can anymore. How do clubs prevent that ? Education, regular auditing of competition results maybe and promoting a moral compass but pretty impossible in my eyes. I and many others I play with, have just accepted that I/we cannot win a major event where the prize is of any value.
Whould it b possible to start a petition to revert back if enough signed it 🤷🏼♂️ as future off golf looks shite,with low players not playing anymore, so whos gonna come thro the ranks? Just clubs full off 20/30 handicappers, golf used to be about trting to get as low as u can, now its the opposite, know many people of 20 odds tht hate getting cut 1 or 2 strokes....there first thought is 'thts rubbish itll b hard to win now' when was tht ever a thought back in the day.competative golf is ruined.
Thanks for the update. There is no common sense applied to handicapping anymore it's just a calculation. Young men in their 20s and 30s starting golf with 3 cards playing off 25+ handicap and winning 3 or 4 board comps in one season before the system catches up with them? I've won 5 board comps in 58 years and still play off a single figure handicap. People beating their handicaps by 10-15 shots should never happen.
If you beat your handicap by that much you will get an extra 2 ESR, so it should resolve itself. I think you should at least have an established handicap to enter comps (min 20 cards).
@@JimN109 I agree, some clubs locally require that you have 20 cards (enter comps for free but can't win). I put it as a suggestion to my Club and they disagreed. So new players continue to win. One benefit is that it encourages them but not vey fair on people with established handicaps.
I think it’s great and gives a much truer reflection of how you’re playing 👍🏼 you wanna go careful with those gender comments mate you’ll have the woke police after you 😂
I recon so far the new WHS has made the game more complicated for new players let along the existing, I think this could be a distraction for new player and cause them to walk away when we should be making it more attractive and easier after all we're not all maths genius
I don't necessarily agree with you, Steve. I'm generalising here, of course, but if we say that most new players will be smart phone savvy then you don't need any maths knowledge. The apps do it all for you. I do think that the various golf authorities could do a better job at cohering their apps and databases so that it becomes truly international.
Guys I really don’t like the WHS, I find it so confusing, the old system worked fine for me for a number of years, let see how the new updates will change the current debacle we find ourselves in. Let’s hope it changes for the positive😮
IT S SHITE AND TELLS YOU 12 ROUNDS DONT COUNT, ITS LIKE SAYING HIT IT IT OB AND HAVE A MULLIGAN, GOLF IS HARD, IF YOU CANT ACCEPT GO PLAY ANOTHER SPORT, GIFTING SHIT AVERAGE PLAYERS AND UA-camRS LOW HANDICAPPS NOT EARNED IS A JOKE.@@kevthepongo
@@GolfShow Not done any for ages, West End has been on temps for over a month...joined another club to get on a course again! Halifax GC a Braid McKenzie design 👍
OH PAUL Paul here also this WHS is crap take our pro currently +4 now if say he played tiger woods HE WOULD HAVE TO GIVE WOODS 4 SHOTS , YES WOODS , NOW I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO EITHER BUT I THINK WOODS IS A +12 IF NOT BETTER PLAYER, AND AT OUR CLUB HE SAYS THERE IS NO HANDICAP LIST FOR HIM. I THINK THE BIGGEST CHANGE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IS FROM 16.0 TO 16.9 IS 16.H/C SAME WITH REST 0.0 TO 0.9 THEN 01.0 SO ON . how 16.0 16.1 16.2 are 16. But 16.3 is 17 is stupid wherever it is in the world .
System is complete nonsense. I have to shoot 4 under par in the winter months to play to my handicap of 4 due to course rating from winter tees. Due to wind and rain I'm hitting same clubs into greens as the summer time. Who rated these courses? I've played against scratch players from local courses and beaten them easily. Par should be par wherever you play!
It's shite... not a level playing filed. The whole point of a handicap system is to be a level playing field not to be more favourable to mid/high handicappers. Why do higher indexes get more shots around the same course than a lower index? If a players best 8 of 20 gives him an index of 15 why does he play off 18. And at the same club a player who's best 8 from 20 gives him a index of 0, well, he gets 0... how is that a level playing field? You say this system is more representative of a players ability? Really?... ive had it where ive shot my best round of the season, but a better round from the previous year drops oit and my index goes up, great reward for a good knock. This system is so easy to sand bag, once a score is 21 rounds old it might have well not happened. The Congu system every competitive round you played counted towards your index, a bad run of form isn't a change of ability.
Because they see that a lot of higher hcp stop playing golf because they don't improve in HCP. Because they don't practice enough of course 🙂. But people want to have easy results now. They don't want to improve their technique and practice but think they still should lower their hcp because they do 1 great shot or chip in 20 shots. I see a lot of starters (most older persons) chipping the ball over the golf course (hitting 5 times in the bunker) and after 6 holes being happy they shot all double or worse.
@@Wesley_Juakali no big loss to the game... the pandemic brought more people to golf than the WHS. All WHS is going to do is driver good players away from the game, what's the point of practicing, lessons, buying new equipment, paying for a membership when the odds are stacked against you? They will wonder what's gone wrong when these type of players find another hobby... I'm thinking of taking up fishing 🎣
Where do you get an 18 handicap from if their index is 15? A 15 index should be reduced to 14 when you apply the 95% rule. Or are you referring to the slope rating?
@JimN109 15 index, gets 18 course handicap. WHS is a Shit system designed to benefit shit golfers. Winning scores are a joke... if it was a level playing field 43 - 44 stableford points would still be a hood pairs score... now its 48 to 50. A pair of scratch golfers have no chance of that.
Hi Graham. Thanks for taking the time to comment. You are not alone in your views from what others have also written below. Thanks for watching. Regards Paul
An absolute crap system, too easy to cheat as we have seen, I have given up on comps, as a low single-figure handicap player I have no chance. The old system was easy to understand and clubs could adjust people's handicap, maximum 18 in days gone by should be today. WHS and EG need to be scrapped. Played for 60 years competitively but now pointless entering competitions.
WHS is dreadful. Low handicappers are now hardly ever in contention in Club Competitions as there will always be a mid-handicapper with 44 points or a Net 65.
They aren’t interested in the elite/low handicap players in club competitions. That is clearly obvious. I don’t even bother with club comps, only the scratch knockout and club champs.
Our club comp uses gross and net scores so the best (low handicap guys) are the regular winners while the mid to high handicap guys tussle it out for the best net score trophy…win, win!
In Denmark most club competitions are divided into A, B and C groups (sometimes even D) according to handicaps. This means that you normally will compete against players that are within 10 to 15 strokes of yourself. You will still get the odd 44 points winner but that will typically be because he/she had a good day, not because they have manipulated their handicap. Typically good scores also come on days where the weather and the course is good.
WHS might be a little complicated but it works IMO. We have used the course rating minus par for more than 25 years and with a system very similar to WHS. I hardly ever experience players that are cheating on the HDC anymore.
Yup agree 💯. I'm a 2.8 and , unless you're an 8 or higher ...you have next to no chance to win a net tournament
Lots of Clubs still have Divisions in Medal Competitions, as was the case before WHS.
Simple divisions are Div 1 up to 9 handicap, Div 2 10-18 handicap, Div 3 19-54.
Should keep everyone happy Oh wait, that is impossible, 😂 Then 19 handicap golfers would be victims of banditry from higher handicaps.
I have yet to meet any low single digit player who has anything good to say about WHS. Let's see if these "changes" make any difference in terms of fairness for the low handicappers.
It’s making a lot of average golfers play off low handicaps
AND UA-camRS THINKING THEYRE GOOD ENOUGH TO BE PRO.@@ultimategolfgameelite6655
How will it sort out the 9 handicap playing off 17 waiting patiently
I too Loath this system with the old system you knew exactly where you stood . If you played well below par you were rewarded with a drop in handicap or you were in the buffer zone or outside but your handicap would only go up point 1 . With this new system you were never sure were you stood with handicap
Thanks for the update. I am a new match secretary this year. I’m finding it hard to try and explain WHS changes to our more elderly members and this is very challenging. I also don’t think there are enough safeguards for cheating. I’ve heard many people play general rounds before big competitions to get their handicap raised. I also don’t like that I cannot submit rounds in other countries as EG app is not compatible in these countries.
Hi Russel. Thanks for commenting. You are not alone. Can you email me on golfshowpaul@gmail.com and. I can send you some more details
On the changes.
It's easy - if 9 holes played, a formula based expected score is added as score differential to the SD of the 9 holes played. Not an intelectual challenge at all.
I must have miss understood the reason for slope rating with WHS as I believed that was what changed your h/cp due to the difficulty or ease of the course being played, why this added confusion?
Paul at Woolley park golf club the 9 holer has been a messured course since june of 2022 only off yellows though .
Whs a solution to a problem that didn’t exist
I am late to all this WHS, I usually play by myself or a friend who on the old system was like off 18 I think. So whenever I went for a knock with him, it would be me like 27 handicap and him off 18. But I stopped playing over covid, only just come back to it, totally lost, I have a tracker thing I signed up to, as I'm not a member anywhere, entered rounds and my handicap went from 28.1 on the old system and it said "you're using the pre whatever old system, to you want to record in the new WHS system" I clicked yes and I went up to like 31 something so I am completely lost with it all 😅
Surely the age of a golfer should also be taken into consideration!
Between the confusing new rules for handicap which nobody can figure out on their own and the ball rollback proposal, I think the golf rules wizards are trying to drive people away from just enjoying the game. Simple is better.
As a new golfer that took it up two years ago I don’t understand the whole handicap system, my Garmin watch says my handicap is 23, I don’t want to play with mates that are better golfers and have them give me strokes, if it is a Par5 I want to make it in 5 for my own satisfaction not be given strokes, it’s what drives me to get better. Have I got it all wrong?
Hi Craig. I’m with you. I want to be the best I can be. 👍🏼. Thanks for taking the time to comment. Regards. Paul
I have a friend who thinks like this as well. I'm a 8 he doesn't have a handicap but I'd guess he is a 15. He wants to compete with me on a no shots basis. Although that's very good of him, long term it won't make the match competitive. On average I'll beat him by 7 shots every time we play if both of us, neither improved or got worse. It's the only sport that players from different abilities can actually have a fair competition with each other it's what makes the sport great.
You should want to play with people better than you as much as you can. The amount you'll learn would be great for your game. The people giving you shots will understand why they are giving you them to so they shouldn't feel bad about it either.
They'll come a point when you do improve and you might start wiping the floor with them or in competitions and some people may turn around and call you a bandit. Most people just have a joke with the saying but others do say it seriously. You shouldn't take offence to this if you have been putting in cards (If you want to get an official handicap) and you are improving a lot. A higher handicap will drop lower faster than a lower handicapper will just because they have more low hanging fruit to improve on. I remember in the old handicap system years ago I was a max handicap of 28 and got down to 15 fairly quickly.
Just enjoy the game and have fun!
Glad to know I'm not alone. I started playing in 1965 and don't think the word handicap was ever mentioned by anyone I ever played with through the 80s. I left golf for fatherhood in the late 80s and when I returned in earnest in '23, all I ever heard was "handicap". Luckily, I play alone a lot, or with a couple of friends. I play the course because I want to know how I can do on the course. (If I'm having a bad day, I don't bother with a score. I just hit shots.)
But I don't care if I can "beat" some guy because he gives me 7 shots- Hey, I didn't actually beat him and wouldn't want such a "victory". What a joke. I just want to play the game. I'd never watch the game again if Zach Johnson could beat Scotty, Victor, Jon, etc in the Masters because he was given 10 shots.
Whs system is shocking!!!!
Paul,
Paul here how does this affect club pros . Ours is plus 4 but nowhere on the whs board does it cater for him .
Hi Paul. Club pros don’t tend to have handicaps so I think most won’t be affected.
Not a fan, I think it is a cheats charter. On the old system medals were won by a couple of shots below the SSS on average, now that wouldn't even get you on the first page of scores, with medals / open competitions regularly being won with scores of 10 below.
The system works if everyone submits their scores regularly, sadly there are too many people allowing their money to be taken by people not submitting cards (which is cheating)
There painting the apples orange to compare like with like.
Loath this system. As an amateur golfer who plays for enjoyment with friends with a similar outlook all the WHS does for me is turn me off entering competitions and trying to improve my handicap. I do not want to spend more time talking about handicap systems than enjoying the game. It is a perfect example of the 'faceless' people who make up these rules to make themselves feel important (in my opinion). Did any of these people ask anyone at grassroots golf for any input????
I spoke to WHS before the system was imposed and told them that for the ordinary club golfer, introducing a system allowing for handicaps up to 52 for new players would ruin it for them and if I was required to play such a golfer with such an outlandish handicap I would just refuse and concede rather than unnecessarily beating my brains out, it wouldn’t be enjoyable. The bean counter concerned could not understand or give a damn. I was convinced that he was a non golfer
Looks like you've started a debate, Paul. Funny that WHS has had a real polarising effect on players. Do you happen to have a handicap secretary's perspective from Fulford? I know the fella at our spot has had ups and downs with it.
Hi Kev. I know right! I don’t have their perspective, is suspect it’s easier as there are no manual adjustments now. We have a criteria of having at least 3 qualifying scores per year for a valid comp hcap.
@@GolfShowhi Paul just to ask is it a local rule at your club about three cards in to keep handicap per year as there is no such rule as mentioned by the Yorkshire Union at a local meeting earlier this year.
@@davidgreen9063hi David. Thanks for commenting. I suspect I’ve got that wrong then, apologies. That was certainly the case pre WHS. However, does that mean all handicaps are always ‘active’, even if a player hasn’t put a card in for say a year?
@@GolfShow Hi Paul I did ask that question,as long as the player in question has had an initial handicap (three cards in)and has been issued a membership number,then decides to quit for a year or so,then my understanding was as long as he had the lifetime membership number he would come back on his original handicap.Even if he joined another club.Got to reiterate that was my understanding from the meeting earlier this year.
@@davidgreen9063thanks for clarifying David. It’s quite a change. 👍🏼
Since the whs was introduced 2plus yrs ago and 70 plus comps only 2 single figure players have won a medal/Stapleford 1 of them being myself had to shoot 4 under my handicap (play off 5) won by 1 shot guy in 2nd place handicap 25 so no incentive to improve for the higher handicap player as they can win everything without playing out of their skin.its not their fault its the idiots in charge lots of decent players don't bother in comps now as they say whats the point so costing the club money in the long run
Anyone want to buy a full set up?
It no longer represents s/f golfers.
Hi Paul, just a quick question should players submit all their scores? I believe a lot of golfers don’t do this basically protecting their handicap.
Hi Geoff. That was the intention but I agree many don’t.
At our place you are meant to sign in prior to teeing off and ideally tell the Pro shop.
Who calculates if the course is higher lower than the par of the course,
Hi Steve. Every course is assessed by the likes of England Golf etc and rated for its difficulty
U need to have 5 full rounds on 18 greens, Proper course, not wet 😄 from april 2023 to april 2024 to qualify for knockouts
Found out today
Some interesting changes coming, Paul. I like the transparency of WHS. I hear a lot of moaning about it but generally from the folks who are at their happiest when they have something to moan about. I think it's pretty straightforward tbh.
I agree Kev. I think most of these will make it easier for people to put cards in more often which is the intent of the system.
ERM LETTING FOLKS THINK THEYRE BETTER THAN THEY ARE IS A GOOD THING? ITS A JOKE, YOU ONLY HAVE TO LOOK AT UA-camRS TO SEE ITS A FARCE.
PUTTING IN YELLOW CARDS FOR 9 HOLES IS A JOKE, THE SAME PERSON WHO SHOOTS HIS BEST EVER 9 CANT BREAK 90 THE NEXT COMP.... @@GolfShow
@GolfShow will this make it a level playing field? Will winning scores become achievable by the whole field? Or will it still be ridiculous scores winning club comps. Last year out course record was broken on a Saturday and he wasn't within 3 shots of the winning score. Its a shit system. The old system every round you ever played counted towards your index, you had to battle for buffer zone to avoid going up, if you beat your handicap it would cone down. Last year I shot level par, which was my best round for months and my index went up because a 2 under dropped out of my 20 rounds... 💩
It's generally people failing to understand the intention. Your index is trying to calculate your CURRENT playing ability. That is derived from 8 qualifying scores of your most recent 20 rounds.
Under the old system, if you scored 42 points, you'd have got a 6 x 0.3 = 1.8 and potentially a discretionary 2 shot cut. So a genuine 15 who has a day out be playing from 11 and drift back up at 0.1 each round. It could be 3 years before they played off 15 again!
Under this system that won't happen. The "day out" round will reduce their HC by 1 immediately but more importantly it will reflect their CURRENT ability (or recent) and not what you did one day 2 years ago.
High HCs coming in with 40 plus has always been a thing and will be Under any system because of statistical variance. They shoot more blobs and more 3 or 4 pointers than low handicappers. On days when they manage not to shoot so many blobs, the score racks up quick but it's not a bad system - it's just misused by people who think it's ok to game the system to win (again something that happens in any system)
People are paying too much attention to WHS and how it may, or may not affect their handicap. Just remember good old CONGU, where most if not all of these changes, and previous ones, were built into calculations.
Simple thing to do, go out, play golf, enjoy it, let computer and committee sort out the score.
Stick to this simple principle, golf will be easier, and, much more enjoyable.
Well said Andrew
If only committees could, that has been taken away from them by WHS.
@@peterbaker4395 that’s a strange response to my answer. When I play in a competition, a member of handicap committee has my score card ready for me, with my whs, course, and playing handicap on it.
I then enter my score, either hole by hole, on given app, or when I am finished, into the computer at the club, or on my phone using an app, take a picture of my signed card, send it to my nominated handicap committee member, then score is verified by committee member, and it becomes a confirmed score.
A Committee member is involved all the way through the process, and when all cards are in and verified, the official result is published by a committee member, usually the Handicap Secretary, or appointed deputy, and the result is final.
Overall I like the WHS. What I'd really like to see is removing any differences between genders. Yes I know that typically men hit further than women, but surely that's exactly the kind of thing the handicap addresses. As for high handicappers getting an advantage in competitions, surely that's simply a case of reducing the playing handicap percentage.
I would also like to see the board used properly , like if a woman wants to participate in what is a yellow tee comp then her handicap comes from the ladies yellow board and that is the tee to play from , no ladies off forward tee or yellow tee and red index plus 3 shots at our club , or why what is the yellow and white tee ladies list for SHOW!!!
PAUL ,
HOW DOES YOUR HANDICAP CHANGE THEN ,
Hi Paul. It will be your playing handicap that changes with this change
What about PCC?
Hi Alan. As far as I’m aware there are no planned changes in that area. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏼
Big fan 🫶 especially with 4bbb getting finally added. Should see the 15 handicapper shooting +3 for 15 holes get cut finally 💕 #FairAtLast
You’ve called it 👍🏼. I think it’s a great change and long overdue. Thanks for taking the time to comment
IF HE IS ITS PURE LUCK.
It works as long as people put a significant number of cards in. I would like to see people having to put in at least 10 cards gained in competitions a year to allow them to enter competitions the year after. There are so many sandbaggers out there it is hardly worth entering open comps as you know some high handicapper will come in with a ridiculous score.
By now it must be clear that the new handicap system has become nothing more than a demotivating lottery.
Whs is the biggest pile of crap ever, it incentivises players to get worse so they can win more prizes, as a 40 yr cat 1 player i cant compete with 50pts 4bbb and net 62s in medal play so giving up comps thanks r&a for nothing 💩💩
I'm currently off 12.2 but have had a significant lower back injury for two years. Meaning that I don't have any scores left in this system, & the club policy is for having 12 registered scores in the previous 12 months. So I could easily play any game & put in stupidly high casual round scores to inflate my handicap. I refuse to do that. The handicap system is an ass. I just prefer to go out & play the best I can. Not concerned with winning competitions unfairly.
It’s not representative of your ability as a golfer. It’s representative of your form.
More shots, yipppeeee. We dont see enough stupid scores winning already, 50 points is now a regular occurrence in pairs and 100 points in a 4 man team. I'm seriousy thinking of knocking competitive golf on the head.
I think theWHS is absolutely dreadful. It is very difficult to understand and most people play golf to enjoy themselves, not to engage in convoluted rules. The purpose of this system was stated to mean that you could playanyone in the world off an international handicap. The old system of handicaps in this country was understood and I am sorry it was changed and becomes more and more complicated.
I think it was dreamed up by bean counters rather than golfers.
Simple fact is, those that wish to protect their handicap will always do so regardless of the solution. Thats what is killing the game, players playing off high handicaps tha can easily play to single figures. I've seen it in almost every major event I enter, singles and pairs. It just seems like the acceptable norm to me and very few players strive to achieve the lowest handicap they can anymore. How do clubs prevent that ? Education, regular auditing of competition results maybe and promoting a moral compass but pretty impossible in my eyes. I and many others I play with, have just accepted that I/we cannot win a major event where the prize is of any value.
My brain has gone to mush.
Whould it b possible to start a petition to revert back if enough signed it 🤷🏼♂️ as future off golf looks shite,with low players not playing anymore, so whos gonna come thro the ranks? Just clubs full off 20/30 handicappers, golf used to be about trting to get as low as u can, now its the opposite, know many people of 20 odds tht hate getting cut 1 or 2 strokes....there first thought is 'thts rubbish itll b hard to win now' when was tht ever a thought back in the day.competative golf is ruined.
Thanks for the update. There is no common sense applied to handicapping anymore it's just a calculation. Young men in their 20s and 30s starting golf with 3 cards playing off 25+ handicap and winning 3 or 4 board comps in one season before the system catches up with them? I've won 5 board comps in 58 years and still play off a single figure handicap. People beating their handicaps by 10-15 shots should never happen.
If you beat your handicap by that much you will get an extra 2 ESR, so it should resolve itself. I think you should at least have an established handicap to enter comps (min 20 cards).
@@JimN109 I agree, some clubs locally require that you have 20 cards (enter comps for free but can't win). I put it as a suggestion to my Club and they disagreed. So new players continue to win. One benefit is that it encourages them but not vey fair on people with established handicaps.
I think it’s great and gives a much truer reflection of how you’re playing 👍🏼 you wanna go careful with those gender comments mate you’ll have the woke police after you 😂
Cheers Phil 👍🏼
I recon so far the new WHS has made the game more complicated for new players let along the existing, I think this could be a distraction for new player and cause them to walk away when we should be making it more attractive and easier after all we're not all maths genius
I don't necessarily agree with you, Steve. I'm generalising here, of course, but if we say that most new players will be smart phone savvy then you don't need any maths knowledge. The apps do it all for you. I do think that the various golf authorities could do a better job at cohering their apps and databases so that it becomes truly international.
WHS, 42 is the new 36 points.
It's a bloody mess ...
Guys I really don’t like the WHS, I find it so confusing, the old system worked fine for me for a number of years, let see how the new updates will change the current debacle we find ourselves in. Let’s hope it changes for the positive😮
What is it specifically that you don't like, Lenny? Is it the fundamental concept or the app-based nature of it? Or something else?
IT S SHITE AND TELLS YOU 12 ROUNDS DONT COUNT, ITS LIKE SAYING HIT IT IT OB AND HAVE A MULLIGAN, GOLF IS HARD, IF YOU CANT ACCEPT GO PLAY ANOTHER SPORT, GIFTING SHIT AVERAGE PLAYERS AND UA-camRS LOW HANDICAPPS NOT EARNED IS A JOKE.@@kevthepongo
It's just an average of your best 8 rounds out of the last 20. What's confusing about it?
They will do what they do Paul...if we just keep putting our cards in we'll be doing all we should
HOPEFULLY 😂😂😂
Yeo keep putting them in pal 👍🏼
@@GolfShow Not done any for ages, West End has been on temps for over a month...joined another club to get on a course again!
Halifax GC a Braid McKenzie design 👍
OH PAUL
Paul here also this WHS is crap take our pro currently +4 now if say he played tiger woods HE WOULD HAVE TO GIVE WOODS 4 SHOTS , YES WOODS , NOW I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO EITHER BUT I THINK WOODS IS A +12 IF NOT BETTER PLAYER, AND AT OUR CLUB HE SAYS THERE IS NO HANDICAP LIST FOR HIM. I THINK THE BIGGEST CHANGE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IS FROM 16.0 TO 16.9 IS 16.H/C SAME WITH REST 0.0 TO 0.9 THEN 01.0 SO ON . how 16.0 16.1 16.2 are 16. But 16.3 is 17 is stupid wherever it is in the world .
System is complete nonsense. I have to shoot 4 under par in the winter months to play to my handicap of 4 due to course rating from winter tees. Due to wind and rain I'm hitting same clubs into greens as the summer time. Who rated these courses? I've played against scratch players from local courses and beaten them easily. Par should be par wherever you play!
I think the new WHS is rubbish. Should never have changed.
And when the enact the golf ball rollback, everything will get fucked.
It's shite... not a level playing filed. The whole point of a handicap system is to be a level playing field not to be more favourable to mid/high handicappers. Why do higher indexes get more shots around the same course than a lower index? If a players best 8 of 20 gives him an index of 15 why does he play off 18. And at the same club a player who's best 8 from 20 gives him a index of 0, well, he gets 0... how is that a level playing field?
You say this system is more representative of a players ability? Really?... ive had it where ive shot my best round of the season, but a better round from the previous year drops oit and my index goes up, great reward for a good knock. This system is so easy to sand bag, once a score is 21 rounds old it might have well not happened. The Congu system every competitive round you played counted towards your index, a bad run of form isn't a change of ability.
Because they see that a lot of higher hcp stop playing golf because they don't improve in HCP. Because they don't practice enough of course 🙂.
But people want to have easy results now. They don't want to improve their technique and practice but think they still should lower their hcp because they do 1 great shot or chip in 20 shots. I see a lot of starters (most older persons) chipping the ball over the golf course (hitting 5 times in the bunker) and after 6 holes being happy they shot all double or worse.
@@Wesley_Juakali no big loss to the game... the pandemic brought more people to golf than the WHS. All WHS is going to do is driver good players away from the game, what's the point of practicing, lessons, buying new equipment, paying for a membership when the odds are stacked against you? They will wonder what's gone wrong when these type of players find another hobby... I'm thinking of taking up fishing 🎣
Where do you get an 18 handicap from if their index is 15? A 15 index should be reduced to 14 when you apply the 95% rule. Or are you referring to the slope rating?
@JimN109 15 index, gets 18 course handicap. WHS is a Shit system designed to benefit shit golfers. Winning scores are a joke... if it was a level playing field 43 - 44 stableford points would still be a hood pairs score... now its 48 to 50. A pair of scratch golfers have no chance of that.
@@Erictheking66 I don't see how you're getting an 18 handicap from a 15 index
System is awful, as low handicapper mo chance except club championship ,
Hi Graham. Thanks for taking the time to comment. You are not alone in your views from what others have also written below.
Thanks for watching.
Regards Paul
An absolute crap system, too easy to cheat as we have seen, I have given up on comps, as a low single-figure handicap player I have no chance. The old system was easy to understand and clubs could adjust people's handicap, maximum 18 in days gone by should be today. WHS and EG need to be scrapped. Played for 60 years competitively but now pointless entering competitions.
It’s garbage
WHS is 💩
More ways for cheats to manipulate their hcp
Pandering to Americans, it’s an awful system.
Cheats charter.
All club comps being won by high handicap golfers
Destroying club golf