They Powercrept This Jet So Fast | F-14B War Thunder
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- The F-14B was introduced in June, and had a short blaze of glory before being instantly supplanted by the F-16C Block 50. It's still quite decent, though who knows what'll happen when we get stuff like the F-15 and Su-27 soon...
00:00 Intro
00:40 Flight Performance
02:10 AIM-9M
03:05 Radar Missiles
04:45 F-14B Air Overview
06:30 CAS Ability
Outro Music - "Just Free" produced by Lucas Ricciotti under license, used with permission: • How To Train Your Drag...
Discord link: / discord - Ігри
If the F-14B is power crept then half the other top tier jets are literally unplayable
I mean, if you’re not in a 2000’s plane (r73, 9m) top tier is quite unfun
@@greystash1750; The same goes for the stock grind on jets that have to unlock R-73 or 9 Mike.
The j37d is the worse 😢
and they are.
@@greystash1750AIM-9M entered service in 1982. Bl50 F-16's 1991. K-73 1984. Mig-29G 1993. These are not "2000's aircraft" except the Mig-29 SMT
It still has a place in my heart as a delightful missile spammer.
A missile bus, even
Some may say you go into the Danger Zone lol.
I still would rather play f14b than f16c just because of its tendency to be jack of all trades and master of none.
AIM-54's are beaudiful
I dont care im grinding USA for the f14b even if it is "not meta". This plane is really cool and so pretty looking
Ditto been grinding since last year
Good mindset!
Good cas
meta ruins games. remember the submarine event?
Very sad. The tomcat is such a genuinely cool plane too.
Agreed
Unfortunately in my experience the kill stealing issue is very prevalent when it comes to a large majority of CN players, they just don't give a shit and usually would steal your kills.
I wish they would give a decent reward for kill assists instead of making them completely worthless
I steal kills whenever I can because the grind is so fucking monotonous on top of that it happens to me fairly often too. I barely get irritated when someone steals my kills anymore, I think its almost entirely gaijins fault. I doubt of the people that team kill its to pad their stats, I also dont think it has anything to do with nationality.
I wish they'd give them their own server back.
@@blenderguy2935 Tarkov, DayZ, pretty much any game with them they ruin. Time to start banning IPs from China.
It's not about CN players. It's just War Thunder players in general. Everyone and their mom is stealing kills.
I just dipped into 11.0 with the Mig 21bis and my respect for players that don't want to un-live them selfs after a few hours.....not even weeks or years is peaking I mean massive respect in the time it took me to unlock chaff I felt dead inside......I went outside.........outside :(
Oh gosh, outside you say? Literally unimaginable.
11.0 still is pretty sweet to play
The problem is the R-60M being the worst top tier missile by far. The J-7 family are the same thing but insanely more fun because they use Magics/Python instead of the R-60
@@leonardooliveira4627J-7 family? Fym? J-7 uses PL-2 (essentially R-3S), J-7E PL-5B (neither a python nor a magic), J-7D has either those or PL-7 (magic 1s). So no, the family doesn't have pythons and magics
If you're not in a top tier jet then you have to hug the ground really tight otherwise you're just free XP
@@leonardooliveira4627 F-14A gets Aim-9Ds lol
Don't aim GBUs directly on tank roofs, there's a good chance the MG or other roof geometry will randomly eat the damage. Aim for the ground just next to their tracks.
The F-14B has an amazing spot in GRB as an AA shield. 54s for drones and 7Ms and 9Ls for fighters.
Exactly. And fly super low so Pantsir can’t touch you. 54s work on high flying cas like mig-27s too. Sometimes I fire them hard locked in non pd mode because sometimes pd will get notched
@@NickThePilotUSAif you're firing 54s in GrB at sub 19km, you don't need to lock them up at all, TWS during launch is enough.
@@sorincaladera936 I don’t like tws. I fire them as a fox 1, and sometimes I break lock and let it guide itself. Tws isn’t something I like to use cuz it switches targets mid launch and it gives them an RWR ping when it’s actively homing in. Fox 1 mode only pings when I launch, but after that no.
@@NickThePilotUSA I just sit outside their range and goad 27s and 29s into over extending and fighting on my terms.
imagine firing a missile that is the same size of the drone you're shooting at, AIM-54s vs drones are overkill haha
RIP F-14B 2023 - 2023
It will be missed
@@GeneralLee2000 I do hope it does get AIM-9M
The most noticeable problem i've found with the F-14 at top tier battles is the radar.
Loses lock way to easily and way too fast, combined with the fact you don't get an all-aspect PD mode on the radar really affects your situational awareness since you can barely detect or track targets flying away from you. F-14 is also a massive heat signature and you simply cannot get into dogfights against any R-73 carriers or you get slammed.
Also, when compared to F-16C, the latter gives you a higher resolution targeting pod, 6 mavericks + laser guided bombs while still carrying 4 AIM-9Ms... All of this in just 0.3 BR difference.
Really makes sense why is powercrept so bad.
Of course there's some more factors at play, but this sums it up.
it should be able to launch sparrows and phoenixs in pulse, Which doesnt have a main lobe filter and doesnt care about closure at all, and provides an extremely reliable all aspect STT lock within 15nm. Of course this is war thunder though so that ain't happening
Learn to use pulse track when it's needed, it's a very powerful tool for a tomcat. It almost denies ground clutter and looses lock only if the enemy is extremely low (I mean really low, just a bit higher than the altitude when radar missiles start eating dirt) or there's a mountain behind a target. Just be careful for long range pule shots, sparrows In pulse don't track at distances about 5 nm
@@Jacksonflaxiirc Phoenix didn't have a pulse track, they just receive initial information and go at the estimated position without any updates
@@user-if4zv5nj5m Negative, In TWS it is getting constant corrections from the AWG until the last 15 seconds of terminal flight. If its fired in STT it just turns it into a FOX 1, Unless the lock is dropped, Then the C will go active and continue off the last vector it was given, and the A would be scrapped.
@@Jacksonflax everything you stated is correct, BUT it works as a fox1 only with pd stt, it can't read pulse stt and can only be maddogged in a certain direction by pulse track
I still find it more fun to play than the F-16C mainly due to the missile count, 700 countermeasures and the fact thay you don't get targeted as often because you don't have AIM-9M. The limiter on the Falcon also gets jarring
Is the F15 better in every way? I feel like with swept wings it should turn a little better but idk
@@an000n ya but F16C is arguably better than F15 because it has more 9Ms
My brother is a huge f14 fan. He got the A a few days ago and only has 130k rp until the B, and he doesn’t care how not meta it is, he’ll fly it lol. Besides I have the Netz and Obama so I can kind of protect him
Thats very nice of you. Im sure you both will make a great team!
@@narcissus5970 he just got it and he’s having a great time. 9ls are his first all aspect missile and the best he’s ever had, safe to say he likes it 😁
@@batlax18 thats pretty cool! I enjoyed a lot using the Tomcats aswell. Now Im spading the F16C, recently got the aim9ms, but havent tested It yet hahaha
@@narcissus5970 I’ve almost got 9ms, just a few mods away can’t wait, they seem really good but imo Pythons look like more fun
As for kill steals, the mentality of players has changed a lot in the last few months. It looks like nobody cares about stealing kills anymore.
I think it's so bad now that I'm thinking about changing my attitude towards killstealing too. It doesn't do me any good to be the one player in a hundred who respects it.
If u Ks ur gai
Keep your dignity
If a teammate fires a missile before I damage an enemy and it kills him then that's fine, but if someone actively tries to steal a kill on someone spinning out and on fire then they're getting a missile up the ass
@@Rorywizz yes
I've killed a solid 3 teammates for stealing my kills. No mercy. @@Rorywizz
F-14A was used as an AMRAAM testbed in 1982 and the F-14D had the software for the AMRAAM. It was never mounted on the F-14Ds. Unsure if Gaijin would be okay with implementing it.
Given the nonsense of Apaches not all having sidewinders, this is probable
Gaijin doesn't care about anything that doesn't start with R and ends with ussia, so no, probably not.
@@bigtony4930 this mindset is always insanely stupid and wrong.
@@bigtony4930the SMT missing its distinctive missile loadout and the regular 29 not having R-73s, sure thing buddy
Deny it all you want.@@spray916
9:42 "It might be able to win a dogfight against an SMT" as an SMT slams into the ground for no reason lol
Accurate
You had me in the first half “F-14 was the best dog fighter a competent pilot could beat anything” and I was like when the hell was that ever the case then I remembered I just got forced to face other f-14s every game
I wouldn't at all be surprised if they actually gave us the 14D this patch. Surprised no one has thought about it. Give it the 9M, same airframe and engines as the B but with much improved radar and avionics and everything else so, I mean literally why not. Not like it can use AMRAAMs, still just 54's, 7's, and 9's.
Technically they could give it AMRAAM, the 1985 SAC for the F-14D has AMRAAM listed. The pylons and radar are compatible, they just never actually upgraded the fleet. Sounds exactly like one of the "theoretically" compatible things Gaijin would do. Regardless, I doubt we get it this patch personally. I'm really really feeling F-15, it was also on the leaklist from the guy who had the reliable one last patch.
@GeneralLee2000 really the only reason the Tomcat didn't get thr AMRAAM (amd many other things) was due to politics, and Cheney as SecDef having a massive hate boner for Grumman
If dcs can’t get the F-14D I’d be surprised if war thunder could
@@Ninjasimpmunk define "can't" because they very, very, very easily could.
Now we can roleplay the final fight in Top Gun Maverick every single game now
This plane is, no joke, my favorite plane in the game. Sure, it's not the rush playstyle the F-16 and MiG-29 are, but the missiles are good, the flight performance is great if you know how to use it, and the amount of countermeasures it has make it one of the best planes for long term and late game engagements. The Tomcat playstyle is definitely not for everyone though, as it requires significantly more patience and methodical engagements than the F-16.
They sure did. When I got it the MiG-29G was being added so... I didn't have a great time fighting MiG-29G/SMT and F-16C
Im just surpised the f14b doesnt have aim9ms when its literally a 1989 mod and the aim9m is from the early-mid 80s and originally a navy development.
And I really liked this when it came out
I hate when gaijin just kills a top tier in one update no matter what it is
I am still nostalgic for those mig21bis vs f4e battles
That was when war thunder peaked I think
there r rumours of aim54s getting a huge buff in december update.
@@hemendraravi4787even then the meta right now is just to hug the deck so unless the f14 gets like aim9m or some other upgrade in its systems it will still be outclass flight performance wise
@@from_George_with_luv against F-16s sure. Not against the Mig.
@@FXIIBeaverwith the current matchmaker it’s basically everyone vs everyone
You will beat a mig29 in a 1v1 but the r73 and the 27er is basically making that very difficult
@@hemendraravi4787 literally not true.
Well.. As it should be. From the jets in the game, F-14 is, by far, the best fighter jet IRL.
f14 glazing is absolutely insane
Thank you for mentioning that situation with tws and the laser designator. One of my earliest complaints with the f14b when it released, still kinda sad to see that they didnt introduce an option yet to disable that feature
Tiseo was impossible to disable irl i think (not sure)
everytime i hear your outro music it reminds me of 'I Want It That Way' by the backstreet boys with the melody lol
I love how the Fox-3’s don’t work, so Fox-1’s are the meta.
Meanwhile in DCS, the AIM-54 Phoenix will kill you within 30km if you don’t knotch it.
I’d argue that it’s currently a Fox-2 meta
Hell the Fox-1’s don’t even work lol. Gaijin for some fucking reason thinks that Sparrows and all other SARH armaments have guidance issues below 100m altitude, when historically and technically that should not be the case at least for the AIM-7M and onwards.
Should not be straight up fucking immune to Fox-1s just by flying 100m or lower, but here we are, with almost everyone in top tier mowing grass in their super powerful jets, cause that’s the only tactic they know to deal with missiles.
In war thunder planes are more maneuvareable
2:03 as long as you're outside of 1.9km you can flare R73s, and within that range you can preflare with 1 flare a second, (R-73E can be decoyed with ab. the RU R-73 requires mil power) and if the migs *too* close you can just spam flares
The TGP lock changing to the TWS lock at least doesn't happen on the F-16C. Not sure if it really does happen on the other planes, but I suspect it's only the F-14B (and Kurnass 2k maybe) that has this issue because normally in the A2A role, the TCS is slaved to the radar lock (and vice versa, but that's not implemented) which seems to affect the TGP as well.
on the matchup of SMT vs 14B: we did a lot of 1v1 dogfight testing between the two when the smt came out, it is very much possible to win a straight fight in the tomcat against the chunky fulcrum but it’s a close turnfight and obviously 9 times out of 10 you’ll be murdered by its much more useful missiles one way or another
regardless, high tier matches work in a way where you can still get kills just with good positioning and situational awareness even with a dogshit aircraft, much more so than at lower tiers of jets and especially compared to prop tier, so you can definitely still have plenty of fun in the 14. god knows I do.
F14's in arcade battles are an absolute beast, with a spaded crew reload time is only 20 - 30 seconds or so. So i take in x6 aim 54's.the second i spawn in i tws all 6 toward the enemy spawn then turn cold, the six aim 54's will continue toward the enemy spawn spreading out as they go and go pit bull and the first jet they spot, by the time the first volley has hit ive reloaded and im turning back in for the next volley, rinse and repeat! keeps me way outside the danger zone (lol) and it supports my team like having constant air to air artillery 😂👌
again another great vid
Bro, imagine having the only plane in the game with long range semi-active radar missiles *AND* the largest missile loadout in the game combined with a top-tier airframe that can out-dogfight mig-29s... and then you realize that this same plane didn't even have to go against f-16s/29s for many months. F-14a/b have been so OP for so long... ridiculous.
On the planet I live on, the f16a and mig-29a were added several months before the f14b and it always had to fight them, and the aim54 is a fkn meme… what planet do you live on?
@@norske_ow3440 Do you know what the F-14A is?
@@mavor101this plane is pure garbage. The ir missiles are trash, the radar is pure shit and sometimes can’t lock due to a bug that gaijin still didn’t patch, and even radar missiles are trash except aim7f.
The only thing holding the F-14B back from being meta is how bad the radar is. It's sooooo easy to notch, to the point where I was actually wishing I was using the EJ Kai instead since its the same loadout but has a radar that can handle an evading target.
hey, that's a nice outro man
countdown to the f15: vid 1
RAAAAAAAH
Was excited for this thing, but with the RWR changes the only thing that made this plane stand out a bit is now barely usable(the Phoenix). The 9Ls have been a complete RNG fest for the last 2 patches or so, as in they either will ignore all the flares, cutting of AB etc. or they will eat the first singular flare that's popped, no matter the perfect firing solution. Sparrows are just bad, and as mentioned in the video, the radar ain't 'it', either. Ohh and you also can't drop bombs past M1 on a plane that's literally called the "Bombcat". So yeah, after spading it, I pretty much don't fly it anymore.
I bet they are saving the F14D for premium stuff 🙃
When looking at this, this Tomcats paint scheme on the tail almost resembles VF-154. I wish they would give the F-14A a VF-154 Black Knight paint scheme option.
I hate that one of the most successful and revered planes is just so overshadowed
Leneral Gee back at it with the best jet in da world.
I loved the F14A, but this thing just gets outclassed!
Atm with how top tier is, I just stick to props and early jets unless I'm grinding. Way more fun that way instead of getting spammed by AIM7s and R-whatevertheyares from across the map
F-14 B should have aim 9m, also aim 7Ps and P2, and also aim 54c should be smokeless like aim 9m. Those things would help change the jet but it seems like they're saving it for F-14 D unfortunately.
aim-9m is not even close to smokeless in real life, check canadian training video
@@Faust_002 I think you're confusing contrails and smoke. At altitude anything is gonna contrail.
hopefully we get something completely broken in a good way next update
If they gave the F-14B its aim-9M it would at least get a decent chance to fight back.
It's not entirely powercrept either. At long ranges it still has an amazing radar, and the aim-7M still remain among the best long range missiles even if they're beaten by the r-27ER.
The Aim-54 is not useful as it's mostly an antibomber missile, however, it can still force an entire enemy team into defending and bleeding their speed.
0:12 That’s only if the Aim-54C stays the way it is since Gaijin really nerfed it from the start. It still has a terrible loft angle and its booster is not dynamic for shorter ranges. There still is the mk 60 motor Aim-54C which has less smoke and a faster top speed and acceleration they could give to the F-14B
"nerfed from the start".... *checks updates*: "Proxy fuse radius increased to 20 meters. Explosive mass increased to 54kg TNT".... yup, thats a nerf in your book. literally an airburst bomb.
@@goliath3413 Those hardly matter. You can literally avoid the 54 by notching slightly and you're good.
@@saplingseedsaccrew3143 so i was right. buffs dont count for you unless its exactly what you want. you could get a lambo and say it doesnt count cuz you want a ferrari
@@goliath3413 Proxy fuse and explosive mass were the best things you could come up with for "nerfed from the start?" While sure, it helps to kill low altitude targets flying in a straight line by blowing them up, it doesn't address the real issue with the phoenix. Its guidance is terrible, its a ARH missile and its responsiveness to maneuvering targets is terrible. It also has a terrible loft angle which doesn't allow it to gain more altitude to hit targets from further ranges. Even though its a missile intended to hit bombers the AIM-54C variant should have a better ARH seeker but Gaijin decided to be lazy and only improve the track rate slightly while making the missile heavier. They leave out way too many things the missile uses that would make it better.
@@goliath3413 Also you we're right... I said nerfed from the start... THE START!!! You said "*checks updates*" but tell me this... if these so called updates improved the AIM-54C then that means it was buffed... which means it was originally nerfed from the start and only later updates made it better.
Looks like we're getting AMRAAM. I'm sure you have already, but please relay to Gaijin that top tier air RB needs its lobby size cut in half.
After a long painful grind i finally got my first mig29 and its already been power crept to hell :c
After the FM changes to the MiG-29, the F-14B can quite handily beat the 9.13. So I wouldn’t expect it to struggle too much versus the 29G
The G is pretty much not that much better, just the cockpit is in german
I swear there has been a lot of kill stealing lately. A few updates ago, it wasn't this bad, but recently it has gotten so bad, I actually have to start securing my kills because they are going to get stolen if I don't. Like in 1 match, I get 7k games stolen because team mates steal my kills.
Both f14's are my babies, f14 A is my missile boat but the B is my Swiss army knife, if you know it well enough it can do it all!
The aim-54c's are still not working like they should. They had a max speed of mach 5 irl and they lofted a lot more than they do in game.
The F14 has no all aspect PD which is not an issue in RB but a HUGE disadvantage in sim. since no AWACS in WT, it's basically blind
I concur, not only SIM but in Air RB the AWG-9 is the easiest radar to defeat in top tier now because of no all aspect PD capability.
Just switch to pulse
I'm a diehard F-14B fan. This is still the most competitive, most fun, most capable plane🫡
It needs its aim-9ms
F-14B with betty when, has it IRL
F14B is awesome in Sim
When u make video about any plane can u tell how to play it? That would be very usefull.
We need the F-14D with it's absolutely insane radar; and the AIM-54C needs to be buffed massively. That thing is one of the most formidable BVR missiles in history; but Gaijin made it one of the most useless.
Honestly don’t get why this doesn’t get 9m’s, it’s like gaijin just wants to completely shaft this thing for the f-16
If someone stole 3 of my kills in a game they would not be flying in the match anymore 😂
it's great plane in the sim battles still
The lack of HMD on this plane is as big of a problem as lacking a top tier missile (9M)
wouldnt be a problem if they decompressed top tier BR more. if they raised it to like 14.0 or 15.0 and spread out tier 6,7 and 8, it would be way more enjoyable, it sucks getting uptiered to 11.3 in a 10.3 or 10.3 in a 9.3 and so on the tech difference is insane
120 was just leaked, heck european canadian last vid
The thing is that everyone flies at ground level now to avoid the ARH missiles, so they are much less effective now
So, the plane singlehandedly keeps the meta low and slow, powercrept, sureeeeeee
@@domaxltv I do agree that it would be preferable if chaff actually worked against them
We British lads gonna eat good next update (im definitely not delusional)
Literally has the only active radar guided missile in game lmao
anyone notice the AP hit harder than the HE on air RB match, like the gun on F5E, F5C and F8E for the pass few weeks ?
Do you have a new mic? It sounds different for some reason
I typically run 3x AIM-54, 3x AIM-7M, and 2x AIM-9L in most matches for top tier, and it still feels good in it's current position. Especially given the 300+ CM that gives me. Would love if we saw the AIM-9M added to it, and possibly an upgrade to the AIM-7M/H or P.
They did nerf it, and other US aircraft by limiting it's ability to drop bombs above Mach 1, so you now have the same limitations as the Phantoms before it, and have to slow all the way down to use your bombs at all, which really hurts in some circumstances.
I think they'll add Aim-9M's to the D variant when they add it.
@@CorneliusTheWizardDogas a premium*
even the As and Bs could carry the 9 mike, But whatever. its war thunder lol, The AWG-9 is also a joke compared to the real thing. It's lack of a pulse mode makes it useless
@@Jacksonflax wdym pulse mode
@@williewilson2250 It's a mode that removes the main lobe filter and makes it essentially not really require positive or negative closure. It's an EXTREMELY reliable STT within 15nm, regardless of aspect, closure, or ground clutter
Is there any surprise? F-16C Block 50 vastly out-performs the F-14, and now with the F-15 and Su-27 coming to War Thunder, we are one step closer to the Tomcat's replacement, the F/A-18. At least the F-14 will stell be good against F-16As and MiG-29s (Depending on if you play smart against some of them), and other jets below 12.0 BR.
With the new br brackets this thing slaps. Literally 9 out of 10 games are down tiers.
Wasn’t this in the same update as the J8F? That thing was obsolete when it entered the game
"I find your lack of faith in the Aim54 disturbing" - Darth Vader, Probably
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet"
-Abraham Lincoln
The F-14D will come next june patch like it did with the A and B
I don’t think so
@@lemangeur2poulet248 you work at gaijin?
@@zanzao-1ps318 its my opinion
3:56
AIM-54 was designed to intercept bombers, not fighters. Just to clarify.
It was designed to intercept anti ship missiles, cruise missiles, bombers, fighters etc.
1:02
What is this Yak-41M
tbh the tomcat is an amazing dogfighter and if you know how to play it well, you can beat mig29 easily and f16 (guns only). It doesn't have good missiles and i think it definitely should have the 9m and remain at 12.0.
My favorite jet before the f15, and i would never choose f16 or mig29 over the f14b, it just have a special place on my heart.
save your sparrows for lategame!
and for some reason F14B gets downtiers a lot now
Song name : Everyone wants to rule the world (it’s a cover)
It’s fun when gijian heavily nerfs us aircraft to keep it at a certain br range (f111 without better aim9’s)
Hey I'm a ps5 player that just got this incredible aircraft. Does anyone have any tips on how to play it because right not I'm having trouble getting my missles to hit anything
meanwhile the ja37D was DOA
this plane is arguably the best for ARB right now, idk why people think it is so power crept lol
Dude I need u as a teacher to help me with jets. I’ve been playing this game for 11 years and it hurts me and I can’t use tap to your jets because I don’t know how to read radar or use radar properly and I cannot ever get my CW missiles to work.
Lol later f14 versions will definitely be in the meta
There's only the D left which is really avionics upgrades mostly. By then we'll be looking at even more deadly missiles and it can't take Amraams.
The R-73 can be countered by carrying rockets.
Wait there is another F14?
this game is so cursed, f-14 shooting down f-16s...
huh. you can lazed and fire the 7m at the same time when not using tws?
Yup!
How did you swap radar targets like that at 2:58?
It's like switch radar target or something like that, check my radar guide if you need to see it
@@GeneralLee2000 Are you in any specific weapon or ripple mode? When I use the bind it doesn't work.
F-14B's needs a slight nerf with its flight model, it has more aoa than it can actually do in irl, and it's sustained turn rate is 2 degrees higher than possible, even if you limit it to 7.5G's
7:36 Wouldn't call the GBU-16 "small" lol.
Hahahaha, well "small" in comparison
what's the best dogfighter currently
WHAT.DO.YOU.MEAN? Powercreep one of the best plane in the game still after the MIG29 addition ? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
Well, F-15A gives both F-14B and F-16C run for their money, former as missile boat and latter in flight performance. Stupid countermeasure count is no longer unique to the Bombcat either, not having AIM 9Ms also doesn't help.
If this thing is already bad, it's no wonder I'm hating the F-14A with every fiber of my being...
I still have more fun playing the F-14 over the F-16s
It's probably just me but I love the Tomcat
The Phoenix are so nerfed to the ground
it should just get aim9m now
Still waiting for the F14A to get 9L’s :/
Id say this is wrong really just for one reason. It is still the only fox3 boat in the game. Are they a meme? Yup but Ive launched off 4 and soon got 4 kills so it can happen. Then you have 9Ls or Aim7s left so its not total dogshit. Once the AIM-120 etc is out yes this thing is over. Get fast with the newer jets and launch off the newer fox3s and dive. But for this patch it still has a role climbing and killing the base bombers.