The "CAVE" in the Hill CUMORAH (corrected) | Travelogue 2
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2020
- The "cave" inside the Hill Cumorah is actually an ancient man-made room with walls made out of stone (This is my 2nd upload of this video, because I had to make 3 big corrections, which I explained in a previous video of why I deleted the 1st video). This video explains how the room was accidentally discovered in recent years! The first set of ancient metal plates that The Book of Mormon was engraved on did not come from the room, but were buried near the surface of the hill around 421 A.D. and taken out of the hill in 1827 A.D.. The room in the hill had many other ancient metal plates and artifacts inside of it, but according to David Whitmer, it was emptied out and they were hidden somewhere else sometime before the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints left New York and moved to Ohio.
Here are the links to see the actual photos of the hole that goes down into the room:
- Article: bookofmormonevidence.org/a-ho...
- DVD: bookofmormonevidence.org/book...
And here is the link to the video playlist about the Hopewell Mound-builders and how they match up with the people of the Book of Mormon (Part 6 is the video that I mention in this video, which has a lot of non-LDS sources for Native American stories of the pale-faced Hopewell Mound-builders and their destruction in war).
PLAYLIST: • Book of Mormon Evidenc...
Many Native American tribes still have Hebrew/Middle-Eastern linguistics/customs still preserved in their cultures to this day. Some of them are descendants from the people in the Book of Mormon. The ancient North American Mound-builder civilizations correlate with the people in The Book of Mormon. They built fortified cities the way those people did. They had metal armor and swords like those people did. They made mounds filled with human bones like those people did. They had ancient Hebrew/Middle-Eastern writings like those people did. They had some X2a DNA that traces back to the Mediterranean/Middle Eastern area where those people came from.
The Book of Mormon is a true record about a group of believers in God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ, who left Jerusalem in 600 BC and ended up somewhere in ancient America. It covers the years 600 BC - 421 AD, and also includes a brief record of a much earlier group of believers in God and Jesus, who left the Tower of Babel (approximately 2200 BC) and ended up somewhere in ancient America as well.
There is plenty of evidence in North America supporting the Book of Mormon. Read the Book of Mormon and research the Mound-builder civilizations (especially the Hopewell and the Adena). You will find that there were once great ancient civilizations right here in the United States and Canada that you most likely had never been taught about in school.
You can get a free BIBLE and BOOK OF MORMON at: www.churchofjesuschrist.org
Other great sites:
- www.BookofMormonEvidence.org
- www.AncientAmerican.com
- www.LDSArchaeology.com
Watch Wayne May and Rod Meldrum on UA-cam
Also, watch "Nephite Explorer" and "Hidden In the Heartland" on www.truenorthtv.org
Here are QUOTES from early Church history about WHERE The Book of Mormon happened: ua-cam.com/video/TO-qDQlcJpg/v-deo.html
Shin. Heart. Like Wayne Herschel's Spin River site, which is directly across from your Menorah shin river site. Draw line across Atlantic the from both points to the earth current heart charka location of the nazca sun star temple site and vola! as above so below. the new age will begin when the condor of the south fly's with the eagle of the north. HOPI speak of this! Inca etc
any shin looking landmarks that are natural i'd be looking for and i will be.
I’m a Mormon.
We should believe the Scriptures, not man.
And the Scriptures testify the Mormon Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ on Earth.
But if something is taught that can't be verified by Scripture, think twice about believing it.
I understand why so many people are leaving the church.
Many false doctrines exist causing countless UA-cam videos mocking Mormonism.
False doctrines like grandpa gods, (God the Father has a father)
Mormons becoming gods of their own planets,
Adam helped create the earth,
Christ and Satan are brothers,
God the Father has rarely spoken in Scripture,
The African Americans were bad in the pre-existence; all of which no Scripture verifies.
And each Sunday the Sacrament is tainted because only Elders and Priests can administer but the Deacons
prepare/administer, and the Teachers pass/administer the Sacrament. (D&C 20:57)
And the Lord says, He’s bound when we do what He says but if not there is no promise. (D&C 82:10)
…that the scriptures might be fulfilled; for ye shall do according to that which is written. (D&C 24:14)
And we wonder why there’s depression, mental illness and other unspeakable events among us?
And many are leaving the church because if you don't fit the mold the church leaders sculpture you're not
a part of their click.
Mormons believe the church leaders over Scripture.
The zealous believers have the church leaders in mind with everything thing they think say and feel
testifying to impress others how much they believe the current church leaders are God-inspired.
I’ve talked with church members who think they have some kind of spiritual connection to these men (church leaders)
even claiming these men verify in their talks personal revelations.
But the Scriptures reveal the church leaders are the problem with the entire Planet.
For example,
In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 we are informed of a person revealed as the son of perdition.
This son of perdition sits in the temple of God making himself God or above all that is called God.
Therefore, if the Mormon Church is the only true church then the only person 2 Thessalonians chapter 2
could be talking about is the current Mormon prophet.
For what other church is the one and only true Church with temples?
And Joseph Smith taught a son of perdition can only be a church member holding all the rights of God's
priesthood and using the priesthood against God, as did Judas.
Therefore, who else other than the current Mormon prophet could the apostle Paul be speaking of?
It's as plain as the nose on a face.
And God in the Doctrine and Covenants tells us about the current church leaders and how displeased
He is saying the end of this world will begin among them. (D&C 112:23-26) and the 12 blaspheme His
name in the mist of His house.
God Himself tells us these men are heinous.
Joseph Smith taught the false doctrine of grandpa gods (God the Father has a father) not over the pulpit as
a prophet but as a sermon at a funeral, which should not be taken as Scripture fulfilling God’s sayings to
Paul, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (2 Thessalonians 2:11)
That they might be damned who believed not the truth….(2Thessalonians 2:12)
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7) (D&C 112:23-26)
And the current Mormon prophet is the son of perdition because he has all the saints believing God our
Heavenly Father was created by a being greater than Himself but Scripture says there is no greater than
our God. (Hebrews 6:13)
Therefore, the son of perdition has all the saints breaking the first commandment God gave Moses,
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Does it make sense to reasonable thinking that God would command we have no other gods before Him
but really there are?
Does He not want us to know this?
Why is it a secret?
There’s a reason He commanded to have no other gods before Him.
Because by believing in false grandpa gods the saints believe our God is an infinitely lesser God putting
Lucifer before God.
And the moment we put a god before our God, our God becomes an infinitely lesser God.
Not only that, our God also becomes a liar.
He and the Scriptures says He is the greatest of all.
He and the Scriptures says He is the Most High God.
He and the Scriptures say He created all things.
And in the Scriptures He says over and over there are no gods beside Him. (Isaiah 44:6) (Isaiah 44:8) (Isaiah 45:22) (Hebrews 6:13)
Therefore, the saints believing there are gods before Him is the saints believing the son of perdition or the
current Mormon prophet over the Scriptures and calling God and the Scriptures a lie.
And Isaiah warns,
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)
The saints call the son of perdition (President Nelson) good and good (Jesus Christ) evil.
Because President Nelson says Christ and His Father are liars and fosters the false doctrines.
Peter, John, Paul, Alma, Nephi, Lehi, Jacob and all the canonized prophets would not allow false
doctrines from the Adversary but President Nelson does.
President Nelson says Christ did not create all things. (John 1:1-3)
Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed the scientists say therefore the son of perdition or President
Nelson says the grandpa gods created these calling Christ and the Scriptures a lie.
Well did Abinadi warn the wicked king Noah and his priests,
Have ye taught this people that they should observe to do all these things for to keep these
commandments? (Mosiah 13:25)
I say unto you, Nay; for if ye had, the Lord would not have caused me to come forth and to prophesy evil
concerning this people. (Mosiah 13:26)
And what is the commandment Abinadi taught that the people do not obey?
Thou shalt have no other God before me. (Mosiah 12:35)
Know ye not that I speak the truth? Yea, ye know that I speak the truth; and you ought to tremble before
God. (Mosiah 12:30)
And it is a false doctrine to say God our Heavenly Father has rarely spoke to us in Scripture.
(3 Nephi 27:26), (3 Nephi 24:1). (2 Nephi 31:20), (2 Nephi 31:11) (D&C 49:20)
Beware of the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees, which are today’ Church leaders. (Matthew 16:6-12)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Mathew 23:15)
Thanks for the updated video Michael. I enjoyed your account.
Elder Maxwell had said one time that this was the hill spoken of the book of mormon
Thanks for your input, which helps us gather information to revise our personal models of how things are that form the foundation of our testimony.
Read my comment.
@@skylerreddy5436 Yeah, there are two hill members and one hill members of the Church. I'm a one hill believer. The one-hill hypothesis explains the North American archeology that exists.
In a recent Wayne May presentation, he stated that the camera crew did hang a camera into the cave. They could see another door inside, on the back wall of the cave that led to another room deeper into the interior of the hill. The Steel plating was photographed. He said that it was later removed and the room filled in with dirt according to the presentation. Very cool discovery.
Wayne May says so many false things that are verifiable lies.
@@zachsimpson2008 I would like to see your examples. I want to see your exact sources and documentation. It cannot be second or third hand. The evidence must be such that it can stand up in a court of law. Not stories of stories and more stories of old wine put into new bottles. Please be sure that it is full scripts and not patched together opinions. I do not want a list of items that only have one thing verified, expecting me to take in all of it as lies because one may be demonstrated as so. Also remember that proof of an item as verified for one person does not mean it is verified as a certainty for another.
@@heartfacingupward He isn't claiming that this account is from a proven factual source. He merely said that Wayne May said these things in a recent presentation. I listened to (probably) the same presentation and even Wayne May isn't claiming he has proof and facts. Wayne said he knew the videographer and he said that he wished that he had been there when all this went down so that he could have gotten evidence before they covered the hole and filled it in. There's nothing wrong with discussing accounts from unproven, indirect sources as long as you're being up front about it.
@@SickAcousticCovers So why don’t they go and uncover it all?
Seems an important thing.
@@heartfacingupward This isn’t debate class in a school. Proof is not that easily gotten on a silver platter to the cynic. Bearing testimony in court is not the same as bearing testimony of your own experience-no one can eat for another or exercise for another, and honesty, sufficient doubt slams the windows if heaven clean shut for some. You must do your own footwork and connect your dots by way of the protocol given to us by heaven, and we must do it ourselves, on our own. What we all get are hints and pieces snd we are blessed to have that. If we have gained a personal testimony by way if fasting, prayer, study snd the witness of the Holy Ghost, yes, we are called to bear testimony if it, and a silver platter of proofs is not required because proofs must be received by each individual through following heaven’s given protocol. You may not want to piece patches together, but we are all doing that and no one gets evidence on an alternative easy road. I cannot exercise for you. I cannot taste for you. I cannot learn for you. The references are there for you to find, too, but a narrator’s job is presentation of possibilities, it is not the burden of proof. If this person were to bring you firsthand “evidence”, you still won’t know that is such without that heaven-sent protocol for gaining evidence and witness-in other words, the Holy Ghost gives each a FIRST-hand witness. Coming from Michael P, that already makes it a 2nd person witness and you weren’t personally there for the “first” on he may present. You approached your demand with such a letter-of-the-law approach that you’re left with a leak in the boat of your own expectations. I tell people all the time, the Spirit is not an “extra” source, alternative, less-meaty “source” of proof, it is the true proof. I don’t know His Name, but as one who bears the calling of the Holy Ghost in order to bear witness, among other things, he has the power to upload the truth, instill it, imprint it, install it in the worthy, and if you’ve ever truly experienced it, you’ll know that He acts through the spiritual laws of physics to do it, and that is why what is given is no longer deniable unless through lying to one’s self in order to accommodate a counterproductive addiction to that which is life-diminishing, not life-perpetuating. I wouldn’t go on so except for I find quite a few people making such preposterous demands. Rather, just kindly and politely ask if their might be reference you can use, or better yet, sincerely pray your way to it. Prayer is no less powerful than a wifi connection to sources, and is fact, a better connection and to better sources. Additionally, it is far older than wifi. Micael has made a great effort already to share the parts he knows. The rest of the burden is certainly nOt on him, but on US. If we want to know, we want to know sincerely enough, all of heaven is there to open the windows. l know this much, that We The People may have a Constitution here, but without LAND, We are not free. If We don’t defend This Promised Land, We will not have the help of heaven in preserving it. If We get distracted from where it is, how will we know what to defend. Personal testimony from the Spirit is the inly true way to know where We are defending boundaries.
Absolutely fascinating and incredible. Well done! I think we have a lot of exciting things awaiting us from that sacred place.
I’m a Mormon.
We should believe the Scriptures, not man.
And the Scriptures testify the Mormon Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ on Earth.
But if something is taught that can't be verified by Scripture, think twice about believing it.
I understand why so many people are leaving the church.
Many false doctrines exist causing countless UA-cam videos mocking Mormonism.
False doctrines like grandpa gods, (God the Father has a father)
Mormons becoming gods of their own planets,
Adam helped create the earth,
Christ and Satan are brothers,
God the Father has rarely spoken in Scripture,
The African Americans were bad in the pre-existence; all of which no Scripture verifies.
And each Sunday the Sacrament is tainted because only Elders and Priests can administer but the Deacons
prepare/administer, and the Teachers pass/administer the Sacrament. (D&C 20:57)
And the Lord says, He’s bound when we do what He says but if not there is no promise. (D&C 82:10)
…that the scriptures might be fulfilled; for ye shall do according to that which is written. (D&C 24:14)
And we wonder why there’s depression, mental illness and other unspeakable events among us?
And many are leaving the church because if you don't fit the mold the church leaders sculpture you're not
a part of their click.
Mormons believe the church leaders over Scripture.
The zealous believers have the church leaders in mind with everything thing they think say and feel
testifying to impress others how much they believe the current church leaders are God-inspired.
I’ve talked with church members who think they have some kind of spiritual connection to these men (church leaders)
even claiming these men verify in their talks personal revelations.
But the Scriptures reveal the church leaders are the problem with the entire Planet.
For example,
In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 we are informed of a person revealed as the son of perdition.
This son of perdition sits in the temple of God making himself God or above all that is called God.
Therefore, if the Mormon Church is the only true church then the only person 2 Thessalonians chapter 2
could be talking about is the current Mormon prophet.
For what other church is the one and only true Church with temples?
And Joseph Smith taught a son of perdition can only be a church member holding all the rights of God's
priesthood and using the priesthood against God, as did Judas.
Therefore, who else other than the current Mormon prophet could the apostle Paul be speaking of?
It's as plain as the nose on a face.
And God in the Doctrine and Covenants tells us about the current church leaders and how displeased
He is saying the end of this world will begin among them. (D&C 112:23-26) and the 12 blaspheme His
name in the mist of His house.
God Himself tells us these men are heinous.
Joseph Smith taught the false doctrine of grandpa gods (God the Father has a father) not over the pulpit as
a prophet but as a sermon at a funeral, which should not be taken as Scripture fulfilling God’s sayings to
Paul, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (2 Thessalonians 2:11)
That they might be damned who believed not the truth….(2Thessalonians 2:12)
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7) (D&C 112:23-26)
And the current Mormon prophet is the son of perdition because he has all the saints believing God our
Heavenly Father was created by a being greater than Himself but Scripture says there is no greater than
our God. (Hebrews 6:13)
Therefore, the son of perdition has all the saints breaking the first commandment God gave Moses,
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Does it make sense to reasonable thinking that God would command we have no other gods before Him
but really there are?
Does He not want us to know this?
Why is it a secret?
There’s a reason He commanded to have no other gods before Him.
Because by believing in false grandpa gods the saints believe our God is an infinitely lesser God putting
Lucifer before God.
And the moment we put a god before our God, our God becomes an infinitely lesser God.
Not only that, our God also becomes a liar.
He and the Scriptures says He is the greatest of all.
He and the Scriptures says He is the Most High God.
He and the Scriptures say He created all things.
And in the Scriptures He says over and over there are no gods beside Him. (Isaiah 44:6) (Isaiah 44:8) (Isaiah 45:22) (Hebrews 6:13)
Therefore, the saints believing there are gods before Him is the saints believing the son of perdition or the
current Mormon prophet over the Scriptures and calling God and the Scriptures a lie.
And Isaiah warns,
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)
The saints call the son of perdition (President Nelson) good and good (Jesus Christ) evil.
Because President Nelson says Christ and His Father are liars and fosters the false doctrines.
Peter, John, Paul, Alma, Nephi, Lehi, Jacob and all the canonized prophets would not allow false
doctrines from the Adversary but President Nelson does.
President Nelson says Christ did not create all things. (John 1:1-3)
Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed the scientists say therefore the son of perdition or President
Nelson says the grandpa gods created these calling Christ and the Scriptures a lie.
Well did Abinadi warn the wicked king Noah and his priests,
Have ye taught this people that they should observe to do all these things for to keep these
commandments? (Mosiah 13:25)
I say unto you, Nay; for if ye had, the Lord would not have caused me to come forth and to prophesy evil
concerning this people. (Mosiah 13:26)
And what is the commandment Abinadi taught that the people do not obey?
Thou shalt have no other God before me. (Mosiah 12:35)
Know ye not that I speak the truth? Yea, ye know that I speak the truth; and you ought to tremble before
God. (Mosiah 12:30)
And it is a false doctrine to say God our Heavenly Father has rarely spoke to us in Scripture.
(3 Nephi 27:26), (3 Nephi 24:1). (2 Nephi 31:20), (2 Nephi 31:11) (D&C 49:20)
Beware of the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees, which are today’ Church leaders. (Matthew 16:6-12)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Mathew 23:15)
Awesome videos! Thanks for posting.
I’ve talked to Johnathon Nevil and Wayne May about this previous to finding your channel. I am intrigued with the story. I’m curious as to why you did not include the pictures in the video?
I put the pictures in my original video without asking the photographer, because I see those photos all the time from other people and didn't think it would be a problem. He saw that video and wasn't happy about me using the photos (which is understandable), and he informed me about some incorrect information in the video (which I'm thankful he did), so I made this corrected video, but I never heard back from him about using the photos in this corrected video, so I just went ahead and included links to the photos instead.
@@MichaelP_IsMe I’m a Mormon.
We should believe the Scriptures, not man.
And the Scriptures testify the Mormon Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ on Earth.
But if something is taught that can't be verified by Scripture, think twice about believing it.
I understand why so many people are leaving the church.
Many false doctrines exist causing countless UA-cam videos mocking Mormonism.
False doctrines like grandpa gods, (God the Father has a father)
Mormons becoming gods of their own planets,
Adam helped create the earth,
Christ and Satan are brothers,
God the Father has rarely spoken in Scripture,
The African Americans were bad in the pre-existence; all of which no Scripture verifies.
And each Sunday the Sacrament is tainted because only Elders and Priests can administer but the Deacons
prepare/administer, and the Teachers pass/administer the Sacrament. (D&C 20:57)
And the Lord says, He’s bound when we do what He says but if not there is no promise. (D&C 82:10)
…that the scriptures might be fulfilled; for ye shall do according to that which is written. (D&C 24:14)
And we wonder why there’s depression, mental illness and other unspeakable events among us?
And many are leaving the church because if you don't fit the mold the church leaders sculpture you're not
a part of their click.
Mormons believe the church leaders over Scripture.
The zealous believers have the church leaders in mind with everything thing they think say and feel
testifying to impress others how much they believe the current church leaders are God-inspired.
I’ve talked with church members who think they have some kind of spiritual connection to these men (church leaders)
even claiming these men verify in their talks personal revelations.
But the Scriptures reveal the church leaders are the problem with the entire Planet.
For example,
In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 we are informed of a person revealed as the son of perdition.
This son of perdition sits in the temple of God making himself God or above all that is called God.
Therefore, if the Mormon Church is the only true church then the only person 2 Thessalonians chapter 2
could be talking about is the current Mormon prophet.
For what other church is the one and only true Church with temples?
And Joseph Smith taught a son of perdition can only be a church member holding all the rights of God's
priesthood and using the priesthood against God, as did Judas.
Therefore, who else other than the current Mormon prophet could the apostle Paul be speaking of?
It's as plain as the nose on a face.
And God in the Doctrine and Covenants tells us about the current church leaders and how displeased
He is saying the end of this world will begin among them. (D&C 112:23-26) and the 12 blaspheme His
name in the mist of His house.
God Himself tells us these men are heinous.
Joseph Smith taught the false doctrine of grandpa gods (God the Father has a father) not over the pulpit as
a prophet but as a sermon at a funeral, which should not be taken as Scripture fulfilling God’s sayings to
Paul, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (2 Thessalonians 2:11)
That they might be damned who believed not the truth….(2Thessalonians 2:12)
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7) (D&C 112:23-26)
And the current Mormon prophet is the son of perdition because he has all the saints believing God our
Heavenly Father was created by a being greater than Himself but Scripture says there is no greater than
our God. (Hebrews 6:13)
Therefore, the son of perdition has all the saints breaking the first commandment God gave Moses,
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Does it make sense to reasonable thinking that God would command we have no other gods before Him
but really there are?
Does He not want us to know this?
Why is it a secret?
There’s a reason He commanded to have no other gods before Him.
Because by believing in false grandpa gods the saints believe our God is an infinitely lesser God putting
Lucifer before God.
And the moment we put a god before our God, our God becomes an infinitely lesser God.
Not only that, our God also becomes a liar.
He and the Scriptures says He is the greatest of all.
He and the Scriptures says He is the Most High God.
He and the Scriptures say He created all things.
And in the Scriptures He says over and over there are no gods beside Him. (Isaiah 44:6) (Isaiah 44:8) (Isaiah 45:22) (Hebrews 6:13)
Therefore, the saints believing there are gods before Him is the saints believing the son of perdition or the
current Mormon prophet over the Scriptures and calling God and the Scriptures a lie.
And Isaiah warns,
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)
The saints call the son of perdition (President Nelson) good and good (Jesus Christ) evil.
Because President Nelson says Christ and His Father are liars and fosters the false doctrines.
Peter, John, Paul, Alma, Nephi, Lehi, Jacob and all the canonized prophets would not allow false
doctrines from the Adversary but President Nelson does.
President Nelson says Christ did not create all things. (John 1:1-3)
Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed the scientists say therefore the son of perdition or President
Nelson says the grandpa gods created these calling Christ and the Scriptures a lie.
Well did Abinadi warn the wicked king Noah and his priests,
Have ye taught this people that they should observe to do all these things for to keep these
commandments? (Mosiah 13:25)
I say unto you, Nay; for if ye had, the Lord would not have caused me to come forth and to prophesy evil
concerning this people. (Mosiah 13:26)
And what is the commandment Abinadi taught that the people do not obey?
Thou shalt have no other God before me. (Mosiah 12:35)
Know ye not that I speak the truth? Yea, ye know that I speak the truth; and you ought to tremble before
God. (Mosiah 12:30)
And it is a false doctrine to say God our Heavenly Father has rarely spoke to us in Scripture.
(3 Nephi 27:26), (3 Nephi 24:1). (2 Nephi 31:20), (2 Nephi 31:11) (D&C 49:20)
Beware of the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees, which are today’ Church leaders. (Matthew 16:6-12)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Mathew 23:15)
I have lived in Palmyra area since I was a small child. I have never desired to find or visit the sacred depositories of plates as this is under Heavenly Father's direction and still overseen by Moroni himself. Im content to wait upon the Lord, for the time when these places are revealed. It seems so simple minded, shallow really to go treasure hunting a place this sacred, which more than likely is held in a translated state until time to see more. Why do people have such a hard time with delay of gratification? Why would any thinking person believe that seeing and finding these things is a pathway to believing the Book of Mormon is true???
How do you know how God is going to reveal these things... maybe he's going to reveal it through an angel to a chosen vessel of the lord.... maybe someone is going to find it just like this..
.
Who knows how the lord is going to reveal these things to us..
The earth will reveal these truths in time...but someone will need to do the finding.
House foundations, fence post holes dug up, even roads laid, would that be treasure hunting ? I think not. just simple every day life, yet not artifacts found. Why was there such a clean up of a battle site done, even the soil bears no evidence of being spoilt . Held in a translated state? delay of gratification? what is that? oh well Moroni did have a good clean up crew.
I could listen to you all day and night. This is so interesting to me. Thank you for posting and I hope you will continue teaching us lost souls that don't understand all the scriptures and what they are telling us.😊❤ Oh, I'm not " lost" per say as I am a member of the church but I don't fully understand all I hear.❤😊
Note: there is no video of a special mormon cave in this video.
What side of Hill Cumorah is this cave/room at? JSH states that Joseph went to the west side of the hill to get the plates
Looking at Maps, if Joseph walked from his house to Hill Comurah, it's about 4 miles. His family farm is northwest of the hill. Naturally, Joseph would have entered the hill on the west side
Western side.
There have been some people who have done a metal readings on the hill using LiDAR and stuff like that and they’ve actually found some strange metal readings of brass and some gold like substance is a large amounts on the western end in what seems to be a large spacious room but there’s no way To access it
@@dasonmouser1542That's what I'm hoping. Can you link a reference? This stuff fascinates me
west side of the hill is the west side regardless of where you start from
@@dasonmouser1542 I’m sure it’s accessible with a Caterpillar 395
I’ve walked around the Hill Cumorah and it’s much larger than I thought it would be, and have seen the pics of the carved out room with stone walls.
This is something I have heard of recently, and have not yet resurched it, that the hill Comorah you just did the video on was not called Comorah by Joseph Smith, or the angel Maroni. Mormon hid the vast record of the Nephites in a hill he called Comorah, and gave the gold plates to his son to take somewhere else. Members gave the hill you did the video on Comorah, but it may not be Comorah. Comorah might be several miles from there, but still in North America
Agreed. This may not be the actual "Hill Comorah" but rather is the cultural name given to the hill where the golden plates were found. Re-read Mormon 6:6 to the VERY end to understand which plates were hidden in the real hill Comorah vs the "hill" where Joseph Smith went to retrieve the abridged plates of Moroni. I think Saints Unscripted (on UA-cam) does a good job highlighting the key info on this. ua-cam.com/video/5y0G9TIriJI/v-deo.html
The Mound builders of Northern Minnesota/Northwestern Ontario/Manitoba however as far as Ive ever heard do not author the mounds to any lighter skinned builders. Concerning the mounds in this area it was the light skinned European British colonizers that came and rippes apart the mounds hunting for whatever they were hunting.
Interesting.
Wednesday - October 7, 2020.
Keep up the good work brother... 😊
Great video. Well done.
Michael, About a mound west of Fort Meyers on Sanibel; are there not “shell” mounds further south in Florida as well as those you had marked on this map? I visited one on Sanibel Island. I’m hoping that Hurricane Ian (Sept 28, ‘22 last summer/fall) didn’t blow the top of it right off. There was horrendous destruction there. The native Americans used shells to cover their dead and who knows but for what other purpose their mounds were built.
This?
Can the identity of that young boy be found? Would he not be able to testify to this account?
Interesting, where do you think the narrow neck of land is? The Mauri in New Zealand have a genealogy chant about it being Panamaho.
50% Samoan, 50% Māori,, 💯% Hebrew 4 Life
House of Joseph via both Tribe of Ephraim & Manasseh Tribe
#BirthRight #DoublePortion #DoubleBlessings
Pukana, Blahhh,,😝😜😛
Shalom & JAH Bless…
Don’t believe everything you see on Nat Geo or the Smithsonian brotha,
Our ancestors knew who they were & where they came from, we didn’t get here on a hope & a whim
Migration of the Pacific
(Descendants of Manasseh)
Legend of Hagoth
Lehi, Nephi, Sam, Joseph,
Hagoth/Hakota/Hako/Ngati-Hako
Hakota, Hawaiiloa, Kanaloa
The Mentinah Archives
Book of Hagoth 1:1
1 Behold, I am Hagoth, & I am waxed old. I write this book so that my generations may be kept & so that the acts of my people may be recorded. I am that same Hagoth, the son of Hagmeni who was the boon companion of Moroni & followed him in war & peace. & it was my father who was a builder of walls & battlements who assisted Moroni in subduing the enemies of the Nephites & in securing our lands & our religion & our freedom. The same was my father, & he descended from that Zoram who took the eldest of the daughters of Ishmael to wife; & also from Jacob the brother of Nephi, whose father took his journey into the wilderness from Jerusalem when Zedekiah was king; & also from that Simeon who was a Priest of the Temple, who took his journey with Mulek when the Benjamites retreated from ruined Jerusalem, & also from that Mulek himself, who was son of Zedekiah the King. Wherefore behold, I am descended from Joseph, the same who was sold into Egypt, & from Aaron the brother of Moses, & also from Judah.
Haida Gwaii - [Kalonakikeke]Alaska
Hawaii
Havaii - Tahitian
Havaiki - Niue, Marquesas,,
Hawaiki - Māori
Avaiki - Raro-Tongan
Savaii - Samoan
Savaiki - Tongareva
Sawaiki - Fijian
Tahitian Mā ohi
Hawaiian Māoli
Cook Island Māori
Māori
Māori - Hawaiiki Nui, Hawaiiki Roa, Hawaiiki Pamamao
Hawaiian - Kahiki Nui, Kahiki Loa, Kahiki Pamamao
Tahitian - Tawhiti Nui, Tawhiti Roa, Tawhiti Pamamao
Or in the words of our forefathers, an extension from one island, to the next & so forth. Knowing with absolute certainty, that all roads,, lead home. This is real history & heritage taught by those who live it & keep it very much "Alive & Well" even today, with Hawaiki Atea being,, the Home of God
Father/Homeland of Kanaloa
Atea - Marquesas Islands
Akea -
Makea - Aotearoa
Vatea - Society Islands
Vakea -
Wakea - Hawaii
Hagoth in Nuhaka
bookofmormonevidence.org/hagoth-polynesia/
Hagoth & the Polynesians
rsc.byu.edu/book-mormon-alma-testimony-word/hagoth-polynesians
Hawaiian Rain Dancers
ua-cam.com/video/Y0vbRhL__l4/v-deo.html
Native American Prophecy of
the BoM [Cherokee]
ua-cam.com/video/2L3FvGc3XKY/v-deo.html
2nd Māori King’s Prophecy of the BoM [King Tawhiao]
bycommonconsent.com/2013/05/01/mormon-maori-prophecies-apostasy/
King Tawhiao
“Our church is coming from the east-not a church paid with money. Its ministers go two by two; when they pray they raise their hands. They will not come to go among the Pakeha (Europeans) but will dine, live, talk, & sleep with you. The sign will be the writing of the names of males, females & children. … Those churches that have already come are nothing, but when these come that I speak about, do not disturb them-that will be your church!”
Ancestral Roots [Te Jewry]
shalom.kiwi/2016/07/te-jewry/
Hebrews in Meso-America
ua-cam.com/video/XIR0SFgxS7g/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/t19VnornoF8/v-deo.html
House of Lehi
ua-cam.com/video/1vcem3miWvY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/FDqIfI1Fwcg/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/fb20jNhKLlE/v-deo.html
Nahom
ua-cam.com/video/e6MVOV92cuA/v-deo.html
Land of Thy Inheritance
This is what we’re suppose to believe the #worldsgreatestnavigatorseverperiod!!! backtracked🤦🏽♂️
Hawaiians migrated from their ancient homeland of the Haida Gwaii from the northwest of America [Gwaii & Hawaii meaning Homeland] who, bare striking resemblance in cultural ritual to our own
Research the Tlingit, their customs, beliefs & way of life. You’ll see how our lifestyle was adapted from their protocols. Knowledge that goes right down to the migration of fish, than birds,, that followed thereafter
Eskimo kiss🤥
ua-cam.com/video/-TNY-n8RA3I/v-deo.html
Whilst the Tahitians & the Rapa Nui brought the Kumara & the Peruperu from their homeland of Peru in South America
The Tahitians brought their knowledge of the Stars, Horticulture & Priestly titles,, such as the Kahuna, Tohunga, Tuhuna, Tufuga & Tufua’a (Prophets/Levitical Priesthood). You see, we’ve been mapping stars since we knew how to manipulate the populace into thinking, we could control them (celestial bodies),, think "Apocalypto" That’s how our people knew the constellations before it even became common knowledge to,, average man...
Makalii, the Principle Navigator
“Hawaii-loa was a distinguished man & noted for his fishing excursions, which would occupy sometimes months, sometimes the whole year, during which he would roam about the ocean in his big (wa'a)… with his people, his crew & his officers & navigators (Poe Hookele & Kilo-Hoku)… One time when they had thus been long out on the ocean, Makalii,, the principal navigator, said to Hawaii-loa, ‘Let us steer the vessel in the direction of Iao, the Eastern Star, the discoverer of land (Hoku Hikina Ku O Na Aina). There is land to the eastward, & here is a red star, Hoku Ula [Aldebaran] to guide us, & the land is there in the direction of those big stars which resemble a bird (e kapa mai nei me he manu la);’ & the red star, situated in the lap of the goats (i ka poli o na kao) was called Makalii after the navigator's name… So they steered straight onward & arrived at the easternmost island (ka moku hikina loa). They went ashore & found the country fertile & pleasant, filled with awa, coconut trees, etc., & Hawaii-loa, the chief, called that island after his own name… & the second was named after his oldest son (Maui). These two islands were then uninhabited…. Hawaii-loa & his followers were the first inhabitants…. They had left their wives & children at home; therefore, they returned to fetch them.”
users.on.net/~mkfenn/page2.htm
Navigators of Egypt
(Descendants of Ephraim)
Legend of Māui & Rātā
Māui:
- Te Ika a Māui
As legends would have it, many centuries before the great migration to Aotearoa,, two brothers [Descendants of Ephraim] decided to voyage from their homeland of Egypt. As far as stories go, the brothers [after circumnavigating more than half the globe] would find themselves upon the uninhabited Islands of Hawaii. One of the brothers [supposedly ashamed to return home] opted to stay & settle within the islands naming one in particular,, after himself. The brother, not being satisfied by the fish abound,, decided to find fish further abroad. By using nothing other than the blood from his nose as bait, cast his hook deep within the murky depth. Upon the realisation he was not landing a fish but instead fishing a land, reeled the great fish in naming it also after himself,, Te Ika ā Māui...
Rātā:
- The Enchanted Tree
The brother who did decide to return to his homeland, suffered a few complications of his own. Determined to return to his homeland, he decided to fashion himself a sea worthy vessel capable of offering,, safe passage. Upon selecting a tree of such capability, he began his works. At days end, he had fell & hewn a great tree,, where he than retired from all labour. The next day, to much amazement,, the tree had returned to it’s original position & once again standing upright. So, he immediately,, repeated the process & laboured with the passing of another day. When the third day dawned & again, the tree was upright & back to it’s original form. & again the brother repeated the process, but this time he decided to see,, who had undone all his work. To much surprise, the brother noticed all the Forrest birds, insects & wild life, labour to restore the tree to it’s former prestige. Upon hearing their incantations, the brother sprang from hiding & spoke to the children of Tane Mahuta, so it is you,, who restore my tree. In which, the children of Tane Mahuta replied,, who hath given you authority to fell the Forrest God to the ground. When the brother had heard this, he was quite & overcome with shame. The offspring of Tane all called out aloud to him saying, return to the village,, for we shall make a canoe for you. & thus, it was so...
Rātā - Aotearoa
Rata - Tahiti
Ata - Tuamotu
Aka - Marquesas
Laka - Hawaii
Lata - Samoa
Lasa - Tonga
Stone Wall structure of Waipoua Forest depicting the Name of the Most High Living God of my Forefathers in Hebrew text, not English or Hindi
Pukana, Blahhh,,😝😜😛
Stone Wall Structure (Waipoua Forest)
ua-cam.com/video/OKbMPd0sIWc/v-deo.html
Demonstration of Māui
docplayer.net/55714078-A-voyage-around-the-world-in-the-third-century-b-c.html
archive.schillerinstitute.com/fidelio_archive/1999/fidv08n01-1999Sp/fidv08n01-1999Sp_014-on_eratosthenes_mauis_voyage_and-lar.pdf
Trilithon
The Megalithic Gate of Ha-amonga a Maui | Ancient Origins
Gosford Glyphs
ua-cam.com/video/CsG1C-52MCI/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Q1SRpziFSCg/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/zjg-l3DnzjY/v-deo.html
Throwing Sticks of Tut
ua-cam.com/video/fHT6zYxIpNI/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/lfUcGiM_Yk8/v-deo.html
Voyagers of the Sunrise
core.ac.uk/download/15094914.pdf
Thank you Michael, great video, although I have already watched the original version, I really enjoyed hearing the corrected version.
I'm sure your subscribers appreciate the importance of updating these videos when additional information, brings to your attention, an error requiring correction.
Therefore I must alert to you the fact that the Nephites were not Jews, but rather, they were of the tribe of Manasseh, one of the birthright tribes of Israel, sharing the honours with Ephraim, being the sons of Joseph and making Manasseh the 13th tribe of Israel, which explains why 13 colonies or states joined together to form the USA and why there were 13 olives/leaves, 13 arrows, 13 stripes etc.
Hi Michael! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! We know that Lehi was from the tribe of Menasseh, and therefore Laman, Lemuel, Sam, Nephi, Jacob, Joseph, and their descendants would have Menasseh in them as well. But we also have to remember that there were other people in Lehi's group who may have been from another tribe - Sarah (Lehi's wife), Ishmael and his wife, the wives of Ishamel's sons who were already married before leaving Jerusalem, and Zoram (I don't recall the Book of Mormon mentioning any of their tribes, but I'd have to doublecheck that). And then we also have to think about Mulek's group who came over to ancient America a few years later. I think Zedekiah (Mulek's father) was from the tribe of Judah (but I'd have to doublecheck that also), but we also have no idea who else came in Mulek's group and what tribe(s) they may have been from. And since all of these people mixed together during the 1,000 years of the Book of Mormon, and then another 1,400 years go by before Joseph Smith translated the book, I think "Jew" would be an accurate term. But more than that, in Doctrine and Covenants 57, Jesus Christ calls the Native American tribes who had been forced onto reservations just west of Missouri "Jew" and He calls the Americans "Gentile". I do often catch myself making the mistake of saying "Jews", "Hebrews", "Israelites", etc. as if they are synonyms, even though there are some differences between the words, but in this case, I think the word "Jew" is acceptable and that the blood of Judah is a part of the Book of Mormon people.
@@MichaelP_IsMe You may want to read some of Don Bradley's work. It may provide some insights on the tribes. I can say in addition to what you said that although Ephraim and Manasseh are not Israel's direct sons, when he was giving them their patriarchal blessings in the end of Genesis, he adopts them into his family. The ancient Israelites didn't have a tribe of Joseph. His birthright was split into two one for Ephraim and one for Manasseh.
@@zacharystucki True, and is why the House of Israel is often called a House of Adoption. I take this to ultimately mean “sealings”.
the children is a great grand child of Willard Bean, the one who went back to Palmyra to take over the Joseph Smith farm for the church.
This is good!
What about artifacts of war there?
Well done 👍
Why have there never been any artifacts discovered that point to the battle?
There are two hill Cumorahs - one in the Central Americas (See Alma 22:30-34), The battle spoken of by Mormon took place somewhere at a Hill Cumorah so named in the Central Americas. If one pays attention to a Book of Mormon film produced by the Corporation of President or by the Church many years ago, you will see Moroni walking across beaches, standing on high cliffs overlooking deep canyons and walking probably 1000s of miles with a sled of somekind as he journeyed to the 2nd Hill Cumorah in New York and placed the plates and other sacred items in this hill where Joseph Smith would be directed by Moroni to find them and after four years bring them forth for translation.
Amazing! Thank you.
Were the plates gold or metal? I'm confused
Gold is a metal.
Based on descriptions we have, they were some type of alloy metal that looked like gold, but were not pure gold.
There are a few "academics" that think the entire Book of Mormon history takes place around the Hill Camorah, siting the Hopewell Mounds as evidence. I disagree, but don't have the room or time to explain. Just remember that this is the author's opinion. There are other opinions with just as much, of not more "proof" to back their claims. Research and decide for yourself.
I don't think The Book of Mormon took place only around the Hill Cumorah. I believe it covered at least the entire eastern half of the U.S., which used to be mostly separated from the western half due to Lakes Michigan and Erie stretching down into Indiana during the Hopewell time period (and the remaining swamps were uninhabitable and not drained till the 1800s) and also by a sea that stretched from the Gulf of Mexico up to St. Louis (according to the Kaw tribe) and shrunk over time, becoming the lower Mississippi River, from periodic New Madrid earthquakes and silt from the Missouri River, upper Mississippi River, and Ohio River.
@@MichaelP_IsMe If the BoM only took place in eastern North America, why did LDS leaders, including Joseph Smith, also identify locations in Central and South America?
(docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub?fbclid=IwAR2bt5vm2FPqMfNwQ-d5rIGNRQBQr4SzeFe63cLPgcaH-zNTFIzuxCLObGY#h.n0ws3x69bp4o)
Much respect for your patence in these comments; and this comment is a brilliant summary. I'm not an academic - I'm a geophysicist working most recently in remote sensing and analysis. I find this evidence compelling.
If you try to dig down there, there will be no swords, shield, spears and arrows to be found.
I wonder if there is still active mormon archeologists trying to find artifacts from nephites.
Wow awesome video
I just looked up the pictures of the room inside the hill. I got goosebumps bruh. 💯💯💯
Anyone who really wants to know something has too invest time and energy into that thing. Just a note, you will find what you are looking for. If you want to prove something to be wrong or untrue, you will find that. If you want to prove something is true and comes from God, you will find that. Just decide what you want to find and then put time and energy into it.
How do you look up the pictures?
Where are the pix at?
@@lindamartinez7006 the link is provided in the description
So the great last war.
Where are all the swords and breastplate, and hundreds of thousands of bones?
Not 1???
Kinda hard to believe.
It is rare for us to even find artifacts dating back to the time of the Mayflower, which was 1200 years later than the great war in the Book of Mormon. Unless, they were carefully stored somewhere in an element controlled place, they would have all corroded by now. Look around and see how many original buildings in the US we have from the 1700's and you'll start to realize how it's possible that very little has been left. The Smithsonian has discovered some artifacts in relation to the ancient Indians, but you'll never hear about it. They're as sketchy as the Vatican.
@@MakelleBell If "it is rare for us to even find artifacts dating back to the time of the Mayflower, which was 1200 years later than the great war in the Book of Mormon", how come archaeologist have not had a problem finding evidence of other, non-Jaredite and non-Nephite civilizations and cultures from the same time period as the BoM? (Caral Supe, 3000-2500 BC, Olmec, 1200-400 BC, Maya, 500 BC-900 AD, Zapotec, 500 BC-750 AD, Nasca, 1-700 AD, Tiwanaku, 550-950 AD, Wari, 750-1000 AD, Inca, 1250-1532 AD, Mississippian, 1000-1500 AD, Aztec, 1430-1521 AD, etc). Shouldn't there also be a lack of evidence for those civilizations? Why is there only a lack of evidence for the Jaredites and Nephites?
For more information, see: docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub?fbclid=IwAR2bt5vm2FPqMfNwQ-d5rIGNRQBQr4SzeFe63cLPgcaH-zNTFIzuxCLObGY#h.vsjwrzaxp018
Not 1 because it's not true. The religion has no artifacts and fake history.
No, but if their we're great nations or Ephutes and Lamanites battling, their would be evidence. There is in Jerusalem and the Middle East where real wars took place and real Biblical history took place. The Mormons can't have one from the time later than the time Lehi supposed to have left Jerusalem.
Joseph didn’t name this hill the Hill Cumorah. Members of the church began calling this hill by that name and Joseph just continued on with the tradition. It was never identified as the Hill Cumorah in the Book of Mormon
Where is the hill with thousands of dead bodies on it?
Can’t be that hard to find ?
Our government destroyed several (anti--history or anti--semitic?) Ask them. Good Luck . Those remains from them are in a vault-- or lost in The Smithsonian.
@@kylethedalek They aren’t “inside” it, they were never buried.
@@Gasp7000 So we’re did they all go?
@@kylethedalek When bodies are left to the open air in sun and oxygen and rain, they decompose faster and more complete than buried bodies, that’s just forensics. However, it is interesting that that particular valley between the hills and along the great lake north of the valley, there happens to be especially ideal soil for blueberry and grape-growing. A lot of vineyards are up along there if you ever roadtrip the area. It turns out that unlike the far eastern areas of NY and surrounding areas, the calcium level in the soils there are much higher. Make of that what you will. As far as Moroni, it is unknown where he fled. But one tribe up that way has lore of a possibility, not that we need to know where he is. While they were in conversation with someone about the story of “one named Moroni”, the tribal members were told, “No one knows where he ended up”, and the members of the tribe essentially responded with, “Moroni? We know where he is-he is under the ‘_______’ River.” Sorry I can’t recollect the name of the river, but at the time I knew it, and looked on the upstate NY map, and the river is still there. Seemed like it started with a ‘C’, but I might be wrong. Sometimes historical tribal lore is all we’ve got physically. I am guessing that they meant he was killed and thrown into the river once they found him. If so, it’s sounds like he expected such as far as his last written words concerning the enemy’s inclinations-they were searching for their enemies relentlessly. The other mounds that are burial types do have bones that have survived, but knly around 1,000 of the earthworks have been preserved. One mysterious one is 1-mile down the road from me. That neighbor, I stopped and talked to and asked if it was true that that is a Native American mound on her property. This is a Maryland property. She had archeologists come and investigate. She lives on a large piece of mostly undisturbed land. She said they told her that they found nothing, and then proceeded to give her the order that she was not allowed to dig deeper than 12” deep anywhere on her acreage or she would be fined a large fine. So there you go. It’s true that it is native American preserved land for sacred reasons-they just can’t live on it or own it (yet). Since this is the border area between the Hopewell and the Adena, it could be something from either one. There is also a very old native American burial hill in Indian Springs, MD. I drove past it for years and never noticed the graves under long rock-piled cover for each body. One day, my sone told me about them and now I can’t not notice them. I counted dozens and dozens, yet all are unmarked. Things are right under our nose, but purposely understated or even hidden.
Not even a nice try. Not a single church leader has stated that upstate New York was the location of the final battle of the Nephites and Lamenites. The “Two Cumorah ” theory came up in a Sunday School meeting of our LDS ward. One of our ward members’ father was a general authority of the church and stated that “most General Authorities” believed that there was one Cumorah in New York where Moroni journeyed to and deposited the plates, and the Cumorah in Mesoamerica where the final battle of the Nephite/Lamenite people took place. While this is anecdotal, so is much, if not most of the claims in this video. Time frames are off archeologically, The Book of Mormon never describes cold, snow, or winter in the record, both they do describe very warm climate conditions. It’s also described that they go from one coast to another in a much shorter time frame than going coast to coast could ever happen under the scenario of this video.
Also, if you look at Joseph Smith’s own words you realize that he wasn’t sure where the Book of Mormon took place; which is contradicts to this video by itself. Before his martyrdom, Joseph Smith had received a book written and illustrated by a couple of explorers who had spent a a lot of time in mesoamerica documenting its culture and artifacts. When Joseph Smith saw this, he spoke convincingly about the location of the Book of Mormon taking place in mesoamerica. If Joseph was so sure of the location of The Book of Mormon activities being in the north east or even in North America, wouldn’t he have stated it more assuredly? He didn’t because he didn’t know. Another outright contradiction to this video.
You said, “Also, if you look at Joseph Smith’s own words you realize that he wasn’t sure where the Book of Mormon took place; which is contradicts to this video by itself. Before his martyrdom, Joseph Smith had received a book written and illustrated by a couple of explorers who had spent a a lot of time in mesoamerica documenting its culture and artifacts. When Joseph Smith saw this, he spoke convincingly about the location of the Book of Mormon taking place in mesoamerica. If Joseph was so sure of the location of The Book of Mormon activities being in the north east or even in North America, wouldn’t he have stated it more assuredly? He didn’t because he didn’t know. Another outright contradiction to this video.”
Joseph Smith specifically identified locations in BOTH North America and Central America as part of the Nephite civilization. For example:
1) In North America, he discussed the saints “wandering over the plains of the Nephites” (Joseph Smith, Letter to Emma Smith, 4 June 1834) as the LDS men marched across Illinois during Zion's Camp in 1834
2) Again in North America and specifically Missouri, “The camp passed through Huntsville, in Randolph County, which has been appointed as one of the stakes of Zion, and is the ancient site of the City of Manti, and pitched tents at Dark Creek, Salt Licks, seventeen miles. It was reported to the camp that one hundred and ten men had volunteered from Randolph and gone to Far West to settle difficulties.” (Millennial Star, vol. 16, p. 296)
3) Regarding Central America, Joseph Smith said, “Let us turn our subject, however, to the Book of Mormon, where these wonderful ruins of Palenque [located in southern Mexico] are among the mighty works of the Nephites:-- and the mystery is solved.” (Times And Seasons, vol 3, no 22, p 914, Joseph Smith, 15 September, 1842)
For more information about this and more, see: docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub
@@adamholloway7963 If you look at the chronology of all the places Joseph Smith mentioned as locations for the Book of Mormon peoples, you will see that was all over at least North, Central, and maybe even South America. No place was ever stated absolutely as a location for the Book of Mormon! There was no revelation that we know of specifying exactly where cities like Zarahemla, Bountiful, and others were located.
He recognized what he saw in the book given him late in his life based on images he saw in his revelations during his translation of the Book of Mormon. He still wasn't specific.
Book of Mormon lands could not have been in both North and Central America. It's and either or thing. Moroni seems to have walked through Manti on his way to the Hill Cumorah in New York to bury the plates. But that is not the same hill where the final battle took place in the Book of Mormon.
Regardless of what Joseph Said, he was guessing, he didn't know exactly where the activities of the book took place. The Church officially recognizes North, Central, and South America as the Promised Land. The most likely location for the Book of Mormon is the limited geography of Mesoamerica. It makes the most sense, it works the best with the text, and it was what made sense to Joseph Smith right before he was martyred. - J
Alma 22:30-34 is a good place to begin. Panama Canal Zone using Google Maps looks like a very logical location for this scripture.
I went to the Pageant several times in the early '70's. Walked all over the area.
If it were there someone would've found it with GPR . Since we're so gullible I've got rocks in my hat and they showed you're supposed to give me your life savings .
Good point. I'm glad your intelligence and not following this fake history Joseph started
If this is true why doesn't the church show the members to help them convince others of the truth?
It is not the purpose of the Church to convince people of its validity but that job goes to the Holy Ghost.
It's just one more thing to take and point at saying this is nonsense from those who are in spiritual darkness, now matter how much you give them, until they see an angel, would they believe and even then, the mind can tell us we imagined even that, but the testimony that comes from the Holy Spirit that something is true and real, that can't be taken away, it bonds with your spirit. Even the brothers of Nephi saw an angel, but they were angry at their father for taking them out of their comfy life and the would not accept that the hardships they went through were for a good enough reason.
@@donnavaughn9409 Exactly because it's not true. This guy based everything off of assuming. The plates are fake and so is the history. Sorry
Constructive criticism: It wasnt the hill cumorah in which Moroni hid the plates, that was where Mormon hid his plates (Mormon 6:6) We actually don't know where the REAL hill cumorah is. ... What's interesting is that if the Book of Mormon only came from the plates given to and written by Moroni, that means there are more plates with more info about the Nephites and Lamanites than what we currently have. 🤷♂️😄
Good comment.
Factual too
According to the LDS Church, the Hill Cumorah in NY is the very same Hill Cumorah where the Jaredites were destroyed, the Nephites were destroyed, Moroni deposited the plates, and Joseph retrieved the plates. (docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub?fbclid=IwAR2bt5vm2FPqMfNwQ-d5rIGNRQBQr4SzeFe63cLPgcaH-zNTFIzuxCLObGY#h.1pg5d8z9tmd6)
@Adam Holloway The verses that you quoted in your article do not explicitly state that the Hill Cumorah is where Moroni hid his plates. They also do not plainly state that Cumorah is where Joseph found the plates. However, it is easy for one to think that it was, especially with the footnote for "Cumorah" in D&C 128:20 and past church leaders stating that it was without any revelation given on the matter. Notice that this link between Cumorah and NY has been built by fallible church leaders who think the hill is the REAL Cumorah? I would recommend visiting this link where this topic of sustaining fallible church leaders is discussed more: ua-cam.com/video/HBEh25jwHKw/v-deo.html
@@yasaf934 You said, “The verses that you quoted in your article do not explicitly state that the Hill Cumorah is where Moroni hid his plates. They also do not plainly state that Cumorah is where Joseph found the plates.”
Actually, they do. Please go read them again. Here is what just one of the links says:
“Cumorah, Hill
See also Book of Mormon; Moroni, Son of Mormon; Smith, Joseph, Jr.
A small hill located in western New York, United States of America. Here an ancient prophet named Moroni hid the gold plates containing some of the records of the Nephite and Jaredite nations. Joseph Smith was directed to this hill in 1827 by the resurrected Moroni to get these plates and translate a portion of them. This translation is the Book of Mormon.
Nephites gathered at Cumorah, Morm. 6:2-4.
Cumorah was in a land of many waters, Morm. 6:4.
Mormon hid the records in the Hill Cumorah, Morm. 6:6.
All but twenty and four Nephites were slain at Cumorah, Morm. 6:11.
We hear glad tidings from Cumorah, D&C 128:20.
Joseph Smith took plates from the Hill Cumorah, JS-H 1:42, 50-54, 59.”
(www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/cumorah-hill?lang=eng)
Here are the links again so that you can look them up for yourself:
docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub#h.1pg5d8z9tmd6 &
docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub#h.n0ws3x69bp4o
If you still want to maintain your position that the LDS Church does not teach that the Hill Cumorah in NY is the same Hill Cumorah in the BoM, then please show me where the Church teaches that they are not the same hill. If you can’t, then in light of the many sources I provided you that do show that the church teaches they are the same hill, I must conclude that the church teaches that they are the same hill.
You said, “However, it is easy for one to think that it was, especially with the footnote for "Cumorah" in D&C 128:20 and past church leaders stating that it was without any revelation given on the matter. Notice that this link between Cumorah and NY has been built by fallible church leaders who think the hill is the REAL Cumorah?”
BoM footnotes from 1879-1920 directly identified the location of the Hill Cumorah in in Mormon 6:1-2 by stating, “The hill Cumorah is in Manchester, Ontario Co., N. York”.
As of May 2021, the footnote for Cumorah in Mormon 6:1-2 points to D&C 128:20 then footnote for Cumorah in D&C 128:20 points to Joseph Smith - History 1:51-52 which says the Hill Cumorah is in Manchester, NY. So, even current footnotes ultimately associate the Hill Cumorah referenced in the BoM with the Hill Cumorah in NY.
Also, the Hill Cumorah is just one example of the credibility issue with LDS apostles and prophets. If the LDS Leaders from Joseph Smith up to Russel M. Nelson, who all claim that they speak for God through continuing revelation, have all gotten this wrong, what else have they gotten wrong? If we can’t trust them when they tell us that Moroni buried the gold plates in the Hill Cumorah and Joseph Smith retrieved them from the Hill Cumorah, then what else can’t we trust that they are teaching us? If they made a mistake about the Hills being the same and they really aren’t the same, then where is the public correction for that error?
You said, “I would recommend visiting this link where this topic of sustaining fallible church leaders is discussed more: ua-cam.com/video/HBEh25jwHKw/v-deo.html”
Thanks for the recommendation. I watched the video. You know what the video didn’t address? That the LDS church’s teachings regarding prophets as spokesman for God is circular logic and in the end, the church emphasizes the need to follow the prophet over anything else, even if the prophets are wrong. For more details, see: docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub#h.sh1yax50tqut
@@adamholloway7963 Thanks for your well thought out reply. I am amazed by the lengths people will go to in trying to fit the gospel into their paradigm of the world rather than expanding their paradigm to fit the gospel. Stay true.
Spearheads, bones, tools?
This was a great video
I’m not convinced the last battle happened here.
Could Shim Hill be the namesake of the holygrail bloodline? Gematria says so.
Silla Jerusalem Golden age silla korea?
I'm positive the plates have dna, astrological and namesake info of holygrail bloodline.
SHIM HILL is mine.
Another mistake. Moroni visited Joseph Smith for the first time and seen the plates at age 14 almost 15. Not 17. It was years later when he was allowed to take the plates from the hill.
Joseph saw God and Jesus in the Spring of 1820 at age 14, and then it wasn't until 3 1/2 years later that he saw Moroni in Sept. of 1823 at age 17.
@@MichaelP_IsMe I have my doubts that the First Vision in 1820 actually occurred: docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub?fbclid=IwAR2bt5vm2FPqMfNwQ-d5rIGNRQBQr4SzeFe63cLPgcaH-zNTFIzuxCLObGY#h.7m07t2ofrvhn
All lies you guys believe and follow. So silly
If this was the hill Cumorah spoken of in the Book of Mormon than why have we not found the battle sight? What are your thoughts?
Not sure if the author will have time to respond, but here is what I know: we have. There has been significant evidence that this is the battle site - including 'white' soil from hundreds of thousands of human remains - quite sobering to think about. Also, so many iron weapons found in the area in 1800s that blacksmiths used them exculsively for ore stock. Also, many, many arrow points on and around the hill.
@@skyflight99white soil you say?? Where are the pictures of this white soil?? If 230,000 NEPHITES died there, surely pictures would exist of this white soil.......
A corrected Hill Cumorah well, well hows that to fit the correction of the BOM, with 5,000 word corrections
Well Michael P, you have put a lot of effort into this I can see. I think the LDS church should look for artifacts, manuscripts or other types of evidence. We do it for the Bible. In the Bible, there are cities and towns spoken of like Bethlehem or Babylon. We recently found a coin with the name Isiah on it exactly where he lived. Every civilization leaves traces of their existence. This is how we know about Mayan Temples and the language they spoke and the food they ate. We don’t have to pray to know if the Mayan people were real or did what they claimed to have done. Whether or not Jesus of Nazareth is the literal Son of God, whether or not he resurrected from the dead or whether or not there is life after this life is a matter of faith. We don’t put faith into artifacts. Interesting how no one prays to know if the Bible is true. The thousands of manuscripts and artifacts show it’s real. We can pray for God’s heavenly wisdom and the Bible or scriptures can help you on that journey but no one else ever prays for the true fullness of artifacts. Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on this. It would have been amazing if some artifacts of some sort were in the cave at the Hill Cumorah.
Truth does not need to be defended.
The BoM does, right?
I see your point.
Guatemala is a nahuatl name from the Aztec!
I came faster than the Lamanites running after the stripping warriors.
E M lol...me too
Well, it is amazing that people look at the Book of Mormon geography issue had have such different convictions. If the Heartland model is correct, please resolve these issues with it's claims:
1. It claims that the Sidon river ran south. But every other model including text only models show it running north.
2. It claims that the narrow neck of land had seas to the north and south of it but the BoM text says the narrow neck of land had Seas to the East and West of it. But the BoM text has the Nephites protect the land Northward by just guarding the narrow neck of land.
4. It claims that the Sea West was 300 miles away over land from the narrow neck of land. But Hagoth launched ships from the narrow neck of land into the Sea West.
5. It claims that the hill Cumorah was SOUTH of the narrow neck of land. But every other model claims to study the BoM and show the Hill Cumorah NORTH of the narrow neck of land.
6.It claims that the narrow strip of wilderness was a stretch along a river, with no seashores of the Sea east and Sea west at then ends it. But the BoM clearly says there were seashores at each end of the narrow strip of wilderness.
7. It does not give any evidence that there was a great ABUNDANCE of ores in the model that was mined and refined anciently as the BoM claims. This must include gold, silver, copper, and iron.
8. It does not given any evidence that the prophecy of Samuel the Lamanite came to pass in that model: that mountains arose at the death of Christ whose HEIGHT is great.
9. It does not give any evidence that somehow one of Hagoth's ships left there and sailed to Polynesia-- or that this claim is false.
10. It does not give any evidence (using lidar or some means) to show that MANY ancient roads existed in that model going from all the major places and many other places.
Again, if you want to see the scriptures that support these issues, you can find them in this study guide:
www.2bc.info/Misc/Evidences.pdf
Please give the references to support what you have said.
Not to mention that there isn’t one single mention of snow in the BoM. In Central America you have evidence of a complex writing system. No sign of this in North America.
Moroni told Joseph personally that the plates contained a record of the former inhabitants " OF THIS CONTINENT " - just read about all of the promises the Lord spoke of the Promised Land and the requirements for any people to remain upon it... These promises and the Lord speaking of the Gentiles who would inhabit this same land.... ARE NOT GUATEMALA.
@@justinhayward42 1 Nephi 11:8: “the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow”. Also, research the Bat Creek stone. Is Hebrew complex enough for you? :)
@@fearlessbryan Sorry, that reference doesn’t work, they were still in the Old World. There isn’t one mention of snow or ice or cold weather in general in the entire Book of Mormon account in the New World.
Why isn't there actual evidence that can be produced from the battle on the hill that all archeologists will agree?
Because once that happens belief will be replaced by knowledge. Faith will no longer be required. Our faith is more important thannarcheology.
@@anniesavidge2468 Real archeology validates much of our faith.
Your video was very intetesting
What evidence of human remains have archeologists discovered from such a massive war?
Archeologists? None because they are not looking. But it is well documented that the whole area was covered with arrow and spear heads. There are also early settler accounts of finding large quantities of decaying iron in the area and selling it to local blacksmiths. There have also been a couple studies done of the soil showing it higher in calcium and other bio nutrients that would have come from a mass battlefield. If you search you can find this information in published books.
@@tomaswmitchellphotographywhat is best book?
I don't find that you are considering many aspects outlined in the text of the BOM, in this analogy. Namely tropical climate required for silk during the prosperous times; as well as fevers in certain seasons; temperatures that would cause heat exhaustion 1st day of the 1st month of the year mentioned in many battles ( including Teancum's slaying of the king). The hill in the final battles, was said to have occurred near the narrow neck of land, from which many water departures left from ( as well as near the land of first inheritance), both by land as well as almost half dozen ships. Not to mention the fact that other than snow being used as a description, winter is never mentioned in the text. With around a thousand years of living, not once, but shaven heads and loin cloth girded about them in winter battles is many times. Now lets look at the seeds that were brought with them; they came from a place that was likely dry, yet they flourished! Nephites landed and tilled and planted, yet Jaradites traveled after landing through wilderness to get to the promised land. Then there is the vision of Nephi, who saw the landing of Christopher Columbus land on the "Promised Land"; where did he land? Yucatan! There are many events and circumstances in 3 Nephi that would contradict your claims, cities sinking, valleys and great mountains, none of which are around the area of Hopewell sites. So to say no Prophet has ever claimed; well all of the Prophets who wrote took painstaking efforts to describe. What about them? And the best is last I'm going to mention. Ammon fought at the "Well of Sebus" ; If these events occurred where you claim, why would the well exist? This well described as a watering hole for flocks, water is plentiful in the areas described as Hopewell and NY. ? Why would they dig a well with streams , rivers, lakes ponds etc.? Sure there is a man made hole in the hill, but the description given by the witnesses, was more than a hole. It is up to each of us to think and ponder as we read; no it is not as important to the where as to that it happened. But presenting ironies facts does not help.
Hello Dan, a lot of parakeet bones are often found in Hopewell mounds, as well as artifacts depicting tropical birds. This suggests a much warmer climate for North America during the time of the Hopewell (500s BC - 400s AD). And the 1st day of the 1st month would be around April to us today, because the 12-month Gregorian calendar wasn't invented yet, and the Nephites would have gone by the 13-month lunar cycle (just as their Hebrew ancestors did) in order to observe the festivals required by the Law of Moses. Their calendar begins in the Spring. So the month of April in a climate that sustains parakeets would be pretty warm. And there is no "well of Sebus" in The Book of Mormon - only the "waters of Sebus". Also, here are quotes from early Church history about where The Book of Mormon happened: ua-cam.com/video/TO-qDQlcJpg/v-deo.html. The quotes are divided into 3 categories: 1) Revelation from a prophet; 2) Words from a prophet that were never declared as revelation, so they may or may not be; and 3) Words of other people, which may or may not have come from a prophet. I stick with what has been declared as revelation by a prophet of God and let all my other opinions remain as opinions.
@@MichaelP_IsMe well given the BOM events ended only some 1200 years earlier; I dont think it was them. as well as seas, large bodies of water, rivers and streams, including fountains. Along with the narrow neck of land. They knew the difference between fresh water and salt water. The descriptions are too detailed to dispel.
@@danmcritchie1755 The Book of Mormon doesn't end 1200 years earlier than the Hopewell mound-builders. It starts at 600 BC and ends at 421 AD. Its time period runs almost exactly along the time period of the Hopewell (except for the very brief account of the Jaredites in the book of Ether, which is from approximately 2200 BC to 600 BC, and lines up very nicely with the existence of the Adena mound-builders).
@@MichaelP_IsMe
Great video.
Have you ever looked up the people they found in the bogs of Florida?
One correction. Lehi and his family were not of the tribe of Judah. They were Josephites from the tribe of Manasseh.
And Ishmael was of the Tribe of Ephraim, and thus the Book of Mormon is the "whole" stick of Joseph, and not just of Mannaseh or Ephraim.
You are right they are not from the tribe of Judah but they lived in the Jerusalem area which was part of Judah.
@Henry Longsworth That's not my terminology. That was coined by many an LDS scholar like the Madsen's....
This video does not convince me. But I do agree that the Meso-American model is also wrong.
The Three Witnesses in 1830 proclaimed to the world that the Lehites landed on the coast of Chile. They could have been wrong, but please consider that they also could have been correct.
Since evidences of the Nephites and Lamanites are found in South and Meso and North America, this only makes sense if the Nephite "land of promise" was in the Andes and Nephites and Lamanites went North in Hagoth's ships to Meso and then later North America.
www.2bc.info/Misc/Evidences.pdf
+++
If the Heartland model is correct, please resolve these issues with it's claims:
1. It claims that the hill Cumorah was SOUTH of the narrow neck of land. But every other model (which includes text only models) show the Hill Cumorah far NORTH of the narrow neck of land.
2. It claims that the Sidon river ran south. But every other model claimed that it ran north from its head in the wilderness between the lands of Nephi and Zarahemla.
3. It claims that the narrow neck of land had seas to the North and South of it but the BoM text says the narrow neck of land had Seas to the East and West of it.
4. It claims that there were other ways to get overland to the land northward besides the narrow neck of land. But does not that contradict the BoM text that they could protect the land Northward by just guarding the narrow neck of land?
5. It claims that the Sea West was 300 miles away over land from the narrow neck of land. But Hagoth launched ships from the narrow neck of land into the Sea West.
6. It claims that the narrow strip of wilderness was a stretch along a river, with no seashores of the sea East and sea West at then ends it. But the BoM clearly says there were seashores at each end of the narrow strip of wilderness.
7. It does not give any evidence that there was a great ABUNDANCE of ores in the model that was mined and refined anciently as the BoM claims. This must include gold, silver, copper, and iron.
8. It does not given any evidence that the prophecy of Samuel the Lamanite came to pass in that model: that mountains arose at the death of Christ whose HEIGHT is great.
9. It does not give any evidence that somehow one of Hagoth's ships left there and sailed to Polynesia-- or that this claim is false.
10. It does not give any evidence (using lidar or some means) to show that MANY ancient roads existed in that model going from all the major places and many other places.
11. It does not given any evidence that a “whole earth” earthquake ever occurred there, or even could occur there, as described in 3 Nephi 8:12
12. It does not give any evidence that anciently metal weapons were used in warfare there from the very beginning as described in 2 Nephi 5:14.
Again, look at the Book of Mormon verses I am basing these issues on: www.2bc.info/Misc/Evidences.pdf
@@heberfrank8664 The easiest way to resolve all of the issues with BoM claims is to conclude that it is not really a historical record of ancient people in the Americas. (docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub?fbclid=IwAR2bt5vm2FPqMfNwQ-d5rIGNRQBQr4SzeFe63cLPgcaH-zNTFIzuxCLObGY#h.sp9etot662pu)
Hi Heber. I am relatively new to the heartland theory , still learning and no expert but I do know one point: copper ore has been mined in this area for thousands of years. I do expect we all have much to learn. Most of our history is yet to be discovered.
Who's up for some spelunking in NY?? Anyone??
Interesting video. However, this may not be the actual "Hill Comorah" of the Book of Mormon. Re-read Mormon 6:6 to the VERY end to understand which plates were hidden in the real hill Comorah (final battle site of the Nephites and Laminates) vs the "hill" where Joseph Smith went to retrieve the abridged plates of Moroni. I think Saints Unscripted (on UA-cam) does a good job highlighting the key info on this. ua-cam.com/video/5y0G9TIriJI/v-deo.html
Saints Unscripted, I think, will disagree with you. The concern has always been that if the great battle took place there, then where are all the bodies and skeletons? I'm more inclined to agree with the theory that Moroni worked his way up that direction and burrows them after years and escaping the Lamanites and was probably really old by then. Odds are there's mass graves around Mexico and the Amazon we don't know about with armies of bodies buried. It's also known that when the Spaniards invaded, they took a lot of gold theyd plundered and melted them all down so those records could be rings on anyone's fingers these days.
Nobody is saying you're wrong because only some know for sure, but it's more likely everything down to those final battles room place in central America and all the mass graves are there, but who knows. Not saying youre right, but not saying you're wrong either. Who knows.
These days you gotta be careful with what's being written and speculated and people talking about revelations. My dad used to always tell me: "God doesn't reveal things to blabbermouths". Or in other words, how God communicates to you is sacred. The Apostles don't tell us: Guess what revelation I had today!?!? We just heard something from Lorenzo Snow so it's all kept quiet and sacred.
With everything going on with "Doomsday Couple" Chad Daybell wanted to write books, give teachings on revelations, and claim himself as having more power, authority, and keys than were rightfully given him. Like many others claiming to be prophets, God's, the Holy Ghost or a brother to Jesus and Heavenly Father, there's people just like him trying to stand in a spotlight attempted to exalt their throne above God's, and it leads down a dark and dangerous path the world's hearing about.
There's danger in entering territory like this, and I'm not saying this guy is Chad Daybell or on his way, not at all, I'm just saying we can't focus so much on all this. Keep things simple and keep your eye on the prophet. Have your own personal studies and hold sacred the things you learn, but having faith with the basic principles and ordinances can be tough enough as is, without worrying about all the details to complicate it and then seeing a mass of books written for personal gain, and cheaping what's sacred and then cults starting out of all of that, it's not good so, just be careful
Hi Neo, after the battle at the Hill Cumorah, all the bodies were left on the surface of the ground to rot (same with the Jaredites 1000 years earlier). There was nobody left to bury tens of thousands of bodies, because the Lamanites went south to hunt down the last few surviving Nephites. The bones at the Hill Cumorah would have completely disintegrated within a year or two and there would definitely be nothing left of their bones 1400 years later (2400 years later for the Jaredites) when the U.S. began moving into the area. So expecting to find bones at the Hill Cumorah is illogical. And if the Lamanites did come back up to Cumorah after finishing off the Nephites down south, they wouldn't take the time and effort to bury tens of thousands of their enemies. They would just pile the bodies up and burn them.
As for other areas on the way to the Hill Cumorah, the Nephites would have had some time to bury their dead from previous battles before the Cumorah battle of 385 AD. The 1850 book, "Antiquities of the State of New York", by Ephraim G. Squier, pg. 99 (not to be confused with his 1849 book, "Aboriginal Monuments of the State of New York"), speaks of the many "bone pits" found throughout western New York, Canada and Michigan, sometimes containing thousands of skeletons. This account by O. Turner is also in an earlier book called "The Holland Purchase", pg. 27.
And finally, Oliver Cowdery wrote a series of 8 letters at the request of Joseph Smith and under Joseph's personal guidance (originally published in "The Messenger and Advocate", periodically from Oct. 1834 - Oct. 1835). Letter 7 says that the Hill Cumorah in New York is the Hill Cumorah where the Nephites (and the Jaredites) died. Again, this is by Oliver Cowdery at Joseph's guidance and under his direction. Letter 7 was published at least 6 more times during Joseph Smith's lifetime.
As for sticking to what the prophets say concerning Book of Mormon lands and people, I agree, and I say that at the beginning and end of my video "Quotes On Where The Book of Mormon Happened". ua-cam.com/video/TO-qDQlcJpg/v-deo.html
Nice try! How is it that throughout the entire Book of Mormon there was never a fantastic snow storm like what is most likely in the North Eastern land of America!
If you know the south and North Pole long time ago there was not ice so what you said about that
Where is the volcano that exploded in 3 Nephi? This geography seems problematic.
Where do you feel this geography was?
@@davidclarke8708 I don't have an opinion on where, but I do feel it has to be in the vicinity of a volcano. Are there volcanoes in the northeastern US region?
@@highsociety7677 not that I'm aware of
Hello swaldawg, there is no mention of "volcano", "lava", "magma", "eruption", "explosion", or anything like those words in 3 Nephi or anywhere in the entire Book of Mormon. Years ago, I just assumed there had to be volcanic activity during the destruction in 3 Nephi as well, but after I became aware of the New Madrid Earthquake of 1811-12 (discussed in a History Channel documentary called "Earthquake in the Heartland" and a book from a bookstore in the town of New Madrid called "The Earthquake America Forgot", just to name a couple of good sources) I learned that that earthquake shook the entire eastern half of the United States and caused cataclysmic destruction that matched every single thing that happened in the destruction of 3 Nephi, including gasses being released from massive cracks that opened up in the earth and caused (in some places) 3 days of darkness and made the atmosphere so thick that lamps could not be lit, and some people couldn't breathe. Make your own checklist and compare it sometime if you want to. It's extremely interesting. And these New Madrid fault line quakes are estimated to happen about every 300-500 years. As I announced in video Part 1 of the series that I've been making here on UA-cam for the last 5 years, this topic will be in video Part 10, but the various responsibilities of life get in the way and take priority, so I just do what I can over time. I'm currently in the process of making video Part 9, so hopefully it won't be too much longer before I make Part 10. But as always, I just make my videos to scratch the surface and encourage people to research on their own, because there's way more information out there than what I can fit into short little UA-cam videos. Anyway, research the New Madrid Earthquakes and you will be blown away! Good luck :)
@@MichaelP_IsMe thanks, Michael, good info. I will take a look. Do the earthquakes you refer to last 3 hours and cause lightning as well? Those 2 items really caught my attention, as they match volcanic behavior.
The last battle in the BofM was not fought in NY!
It would be more accurate to say that a small group from the tribe of Manasseh (See Alma 10:3) sailed across the ocean. When the Book of Mormon calls these people Jews it’s done from the point of view of what nation they came from not what bloodline they were. Also, Zoram’s bloodline is unknown. He was Laban’s servant and came across the ocean with them. He could have even been from Asia for all we know or anywhere else. His descendants would have made up about 20% of the Nephites population.
Great point about Zoram! I have never considered that. And I also wonder about Ishmael's bloodline as Lehi's sons took the daughters of Ishmael as wives.
1 Nephi 7:2. Ishmael Is of Ephraim
The Book of Mormon is sometimes referred to as the “stick of Joseph” (Ezekiel 37:19) or the “stick of Ephraim” (D&C 27:5). Lehi was a descendant of Manasseh (see Alma 10:3) and Ishmael was a descendant of Ephraim. The prophecies of Jacob (see Genesis 48:16; 49:22) were fulfilled as Ishmael’s family (Ephraim) came to the American continent with Lehi (Manasseh).
Elder Erastus Snow (1818-88) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles discussed the importance of Ishmael’s lineage: “Whoever has read the Book of Mormon carefully will have learned that the remnants of the house of Joseph dwelt upon the American continent; and that Lehi learned by searching the records of his fathers that were written upon the plates of brass, that he was of the lineage of Manasseh. The Prophet Joseph informed us that the record of Lehi was contained on the 116 pages that were first translated and subsequently stolen, and of which an abridgment is given us in the first Book of Nephi, which is the record of Nephi individually, he himself being of the lineage of Manasseh; but that Ishmael was of the lineage of Ephraim, and that his sons married into Lehi’s family, and Lehi’s sons married Ishmael’s daughters, thus fulfilling the words of Jacob upon Ephraim and Manasseh in the 48th chapter of Genesis, which says: ‘And let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the land.’ Thus these descendants of Manasseh and Ephraim grew together upon this American continent” (in Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Book of Mormon [1976], 199).
@@user-yr9lt7dz8k You are forgetting about the people of Zarahemla who were originally Mulekites. Mulekite was a Jew, the son of Zedekiah, King of the Jews. Mulek was a child when he was brought to the Americas. From what tribes were the group of people who brought Mulek over?
Why did you not show the cave photos in this second video? I sent people over here before I knew better. Now I look like an idiot.
I wanted to, but when the photographer saw that I used his photos in my original video, he wasn't happy about me using them without talking to him first (which is understandable), but I really didn't think it'd be a big deal since I see those photos being shown all the time by other people. I was hoping to talk to him at the Spring 2020 Book of Mormon Evidence Conference, but it was cancelled because covid had just barely started, so I just went ahead and made the video anyway. When we did finally chat, he informed me about some incorrect information in the video (which I'm thankful he did), so I made this corrected video, but I never heard back from him about using the photos in this corrected video, so I just made the new video and included links to the photos instead. Yeah, it's kind-of annoying, but all your friends need to do is click on the links to the photos in the description box below the video.
MORE TO THE POINT IS THE REMAINING SECTION OF THE BOM TO BE REVEALED - their is no gold to be found in that hill - so why the interest
Mmmmm
Cumorah doesn't need to be discussed by general authorities because they don't know where the Book of Mormon events took place. Even Joseph Smith didn't know. He had visions of the peoples in the Book of Mormon, but he _never_ indicated he knew where.
Heartlanders like to make generalized statements and accuse those who disagree with them as disdaining the prophets, but: 1. The church says it's never been revealed; 2. There's no mention of snow or ice storms, 3. The NY hill Cumorah is not north of _any_ narrow neck of land, 4. The narrow neck was cut of off by poisonous serpents for several years, impossible in thick snow or ice, 5. There is no close candidate for the hill Shim, 6. no cement homes or buildings have been discovered in the heartlands, 6. No writing systems or gold plates have _ever_ been shown to belong to the heartlanders, 7. No, repeat no, quarries where gold or silver mines have been found used in antiquity have ever been found, 8. There have _never_ been ancient populations that would sustain the loss of hundreds of thousands of people in a single battle, especially at the NY drumlin; if so, we would find much more than the piddling number of arrow heads that have been found (when Rome lost three legions in the days of Augustus Caesar, sheesh, they're still finding stuff), 9. No active volcanoes have been found in the heartlands, and geologists who have read the Book of Mormon agree that the description by Nephi of the events preceding the appearance of Christ _clearly_ is volcanic, not indicative of an earthquake, and, 10. We know the Jaredites sailed to the Western Hemisphere across the Pacific because of the time it took them to get to get there. They didn't have sails like Nephi's ship, but they were barges carried by wind and currents. Yet they and Lehi’s party would have had to arrive at about the same place as the NY hill Cumorah, and heartlanders have to have Lehi arrive on the eastern coast so the Nephites could settle in the Great Lakes area and fight around the drumlin.
And I'll give you one final reason. After defeating the Nephites, or even before, actually, the Lamanites would have swarmed over that small drumlin and killed Mormon, his guard and every other Nephite on top, which they could have done easily, and the old prophet could not have escaped, nor could Moroni have wandered around for decades, dedicating temple sites in Utah and elsewhere, then _returning_ and burying up the records. Do they really think the Lamanites just went back home after the fighting was over? Nope. The Lamanites coveted the Nephite lands and occupied them. How could Moroni have gone back to Lamanite lands and buried the plates in the very site of the great battle?
The heartlanders can believe what they want just as the Jehovah's Witnesses choose to believe what they will, even when bested in debates on key issues of doctrine. Why? Because they have a horse in the race. I've yet to see a debate between a heartlander and a Mesoamericanist in which the latter is bested by the former. (There's never been a formal debate between the two, but when you compare the points, point-by-point, in honest research, it's virtually impossible to come away with an honest conclusion in favor of the Mesoamericanist view. Me, I have no horse. For most of my life I believed in the New York hill. I didn't understand why, if it was the actual hill, there were so few traces of two great battles involving so many men.
....
You say you have no opinion on the matter... I'd beg to differ😂
@@BaBumz > I didn't say I had no opinion. I said that I wasn't so wed to any to any opinion that I couldn't change it with evidence. The heartlanders are so wed to the heartlander theory that they are unwilling to change their views, regardless of the evidence. I listed eleven reasons that, for now, indicate that the Book of Mormon events took place in Mesoamerica. Each of those eleven points is strong evidence that those events did not happen in New York and the heartlands. If you or anyone else can show me where I err, I'm ready to change my views.
The heartlanders seem to think (erroneously, in my view) that Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery _knew_ where they took place; however, there's no evidence that this is the case. He may have seen visions of what life was like for the Nephites, but he wasn't shown a map.
Give me some reasons other than Joseph Smith said this or Oliver Cowdery said that. Show me reasons. And if they hold water, I'm willing to change my views. After all, who wants to be wrong? As for the here and now, I see no archaeologists, anthropologists, geologists, seismologists or historians pushing the heartlander view. Where are they? They're writing articles and papers advocating the Mesoamerica model.
Thank you for standing for truth I wish I new sooner that the Y was lieing to me.
Good video but sorry Wayne May, the original presenter, did a much more thorough job explaining what he seen and went through.
Just to make you aware, that hole in the ground is not the only cave or cave like structure within Hill Cumorah. There it has been witnessed people walking into an opening in the side of the Hill only certain times and with certain people has that never been witnessed or heard about. It is not to be a portal, much like some of the anomalies they're finding it Skinwalker Ranch for lack of a better explanation. If the mound is built like most of their mouths, they are layered with organic and inorganic substances to increase the Natural Energy of the location. That is a specific building method that includes the structure of the pyramids.
I drive past this hill everytime I go to see my gf in canandaigua.
Your dreaming mate
It's amazing people actually believe this.
Not Jews! Lehi is a descendent of Manassah, who was a son of Joseph, who was sold into Egypt. I Nephi 5:14.
Yes, Lehi is a descendant of Manasseh, but the Lord also calls them Jews in D&C 57, so it is a correct title (though not the only title) and the blood of Judah is within them. We don't know the bloodlines of Ishmael or his wife, the bloodlines of Ishmael's children's spouses who were already married before leaving Jerusalem, the bloodline of Zoram, or the various bloodlines of however many people were in Mulek's group.
Really, you mentioned fascinating and incredible, um, not when joseph smith said that in mormon doctrine that the isthmus of Carden is theost likely landing spot and that zarahemla was in GUATEMALA, wow, there's facts in here, but, although decent studies and findings from this man, like most, fall short of full truth
Hi David, Joseph Smith never said anything about where Lehi landed. There are other people in church history who made their speculations, and people assumed it was Joseph, but Joseph never said that. Also, Joseph Smith never said Zarahemla was in Guatemala. Yes, an unsigned article in the Times and Seasons made that claim and then later in that very same same article, the unknown author flips on himself and says it's just his opinion that Zarahemla was in Guatemala. But Joseph did not write the article, because Joseph always included his name at the end of whatever articles he wrote for the Times and Seasons.
@@MichaelP_IsMe the school of the prophets, which joseph smith usually led, they believed that the landing was in this region. Are you referring to the articles?
It’s a great story. To bad there isn’t a single artifact supporting it. Odd don’t you think?
Don’t u think after ALL these many years all the artifacts would of been taken ? The whole mountain was stripped of the trees. Pretty sure if there was anything to find there , it would be long gone.
If you're referring to artifacts of the hill cumorah, please see the comment i wrote in the general comment thread. 😁
@@yasaf934 Please see my comment to your comment in the general thread.
@@lorihone9720 You said, "Don’t u think after ALL these many years all the artifacts would of been taken ?"
No. Not at all.
You said, "The whole mountain was stripped of the trees. Pretty sure if there was anything to find there , it would be long gone."
So, you believe that someone was somehow able to remove 100% of the weapons of war (steel swords, axes, bows, arrows, shields, breastplates, head plates, tents, clothing) and dead bodies of the more than 2.2 million people that died in that single spot? That would be an amazing accomplishment if it really happened.
Unfortunately, there are MANY more problems with BoM claims that just the battles at Hill Cumorah. For more information, see: docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub?fbclid=IwAR2bt5vm2FPqMfNwQ-d5rIGNRQBQr4SzeFe63cLPgcaH-zNTFIzuxCLObGY#h.sp9etot662pu
I know someone who has a cousin who spoke to an old man who has a grandson that saw the room.
In the Book of Ether it says that they brought fish with them . This was curious to me. I started looking for the fish from the middle east that might match anything in the south american rivers. I didn't find any. 4 years later I discovered that the sea east and west was the great lakes area. So there are two fish that match. They are in the mississippi and Lake Erie. There is a problem though. The fish come from rivers in europe that connect to the Black sea. The Ether boats would have to have come from that area. They would have had to go through the mediteranian sea. Additionally, Lehi and his family may have crossed asia and not the desert. I took them many years to travel the wilderness. To grasp this, you have to consider that Jerusalem was not where it was today and that the desert is not the wilderness. Crossing russia would be like crossing a wilderness. Lehi's fast boat would have gotten accross the pacific easily. There are clues in the Bible about the weather being cold in Jerusalem. It is never too cold to plow in Jerusalem. It also doesn't snow enough to mention in Jerusalem. Proverbs holds these clues (31 for sure). Now if you look at the kremlin, it is a model of Jerusalem. Moscow doesn't seem likely at first but if you research hard enough, you will see that modern Israel doesn't fit as well as we have been taught.
You will have to unravel history and escape scaliger's version that we have been taught. Sir Issiac Newton was on to our history being a lie and so was Napoleon. Reading Fomenko, History Fiction or Science is a good start. Jonatan Machtemes youtube channel reads the book to you. Note that Jonathan hates Mormons but he covers how Israel is not where they say it is very well. I think the weather is a stumbling block for many. The idea of the Bible times being in hot places helped people to think of meso america as a more ideal place for the Book of Mormon to have happened. It is hard to imagine cold winters and jews going together but not if they were from russia and there have been jews there for a very long time. It is really hard to say what the actual sea routes were. Muleks best route would have been through northern seas. Maybe it was more passable then.
Gold is an issue too. Where ever Lehi landed there had to have been gold. Canada has alot in that region. Remember, north america was ignored while south america was pillaged for its gold. The explorers that did come to north america didn't find much.
The explorers werent too interested in going far past the mississippi . They noted the buffallo though. Gaddiantons robbers had it made. Proverbs mentions not to join gangs. Smith put a name on them though. I could go on but our history as we have been taught as well as the geography are subjects that anyone really wanting to find the truth will need to question.
Sorry bud, Israel has always been in the same ave. History and archeology, anthropology etc etc back it up. The Book of Mormon is a hoax.
RIVER SIDEN? ALMA 2:15-22;29? FLORIDAS ST. JOHNS RUNS S TO N 90 MILES TO WEST SEA....
Ever noticed there's no large trees on the hill tomorrow? There are stories that the entire hill was plowed one end to the other by people looking for gold.
This hill was not originally called the Hill Cumora. It was called Mormon Hill and things like that. It was later referred to as Cumora by people who incorrectly read the Book of Mormon. gold plates were taken by maroon I and all the other records were buried in Cumora. We have no clue where that hell with all of the records is located. .Moroni says he took these few plates, the gold plates, with him.
Before you make claims you should probably read the book, and the records from church history, a little more carefully.
According to the LDS Church, the Hill Cumorah in NY is the VERY SAME Hill Cumorah where the Jaredites were destroyed, the Nephites were destroyed, Moroni deposited the plates, and Joseph retrieved the plates. (docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSngqIgrnleSzP5HQlsfftxMGXUWsg8jlhjcYN3vm2BRQAYLv6vabFgAB16PcflhRS1L0wt1fmLoR6Z/pub?fbclid=IwAR2bt5vm2FPqMfNwQ-d5rIGNRQBQr4SzeFe63cLPgcaH-zNTFIzuxCLObGY#h.1pg5d8z9tmd6)
Before you make claims, you should probably take your own advice and read the records from church history a little more carefully.
@@adamholloway7963
Sorry, but that is NOT an LDS official document. The Church has no official stand on the matter.
@@dankuchar6821 The document that I linked to lists the official LDS documents and provides links to them. But, since you won't accept a document that links to LDS sources, I will copy/past out the references into this comment. Are you then going to claim that this comment is also "NOT an LDS official document"?
President Thomas S. Monson speaking from the Hill Cumorah said, “What a privilege to be here at the Hill Cumorah and to reflect on the momentous events that unfolded on September 22, 1827, when a plowboy prophet took a horse and wagon and, in the dark of night, rode to this hill, where he received an ancient record from the angel Moroni.” (Special witness of Christ, Ensign, April 4, 2001, p. 19-20 at www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2001/04/special-witnesses-of-christ.html?lang=eng#title1
Cumorah, Hill, Guide to the Scriptures at www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/cumorah-hill?lang=eng
Hill Cumorah, Historic Sites, Church History at history.churchofjesuschrist.org/subsection/historic-sites/new-york/manchester/hill-cumorah?lang=eng
Times And Seasons, vol 2, p 391-392, 1 May 1841 at archive.org/details/TimesAndSeasonsVol2/page/n349/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
Joseph Smith, Times And Seasons, vol 3, p 935-935, 1 October 1842 at archive.org/details/TimesAndSeasonsVol3/page/n573/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, chapter 14 at www.google.com/books/edition/The_Articles_of_Faith/GrTCDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=The+hill,+which+was+known+by+one+division+of+the+ancient+peoples+as+Cumorah,+by+another+as+Ramah,+is+situated+near+Palmyra+in+the+State+of+New+York&pg=PR14&printsec=frontcover
PLACES IN THE BOOK OF MORMON: Cumorah, Book of Mormon reader published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1985, p 109 at archive.org/details/bookofmormonread00chur/page/108/mode/2up
PLACES TO KNOW: Cumorah, Book of Mormon Stories published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1997, p 165 at archive.org/details/bookofmormonstor00thom/page/164/mode/2up
The following editions of the Book of Mormon specifically say, "The hill Cumorah is in Manchester, Ontario Co., N. York"
1879 edition of the Book of Mormon at books.google.com/books?id=T1lNAAAAYAAJ&pg=PR3#v=onepage&q&f=false
1898 edition of the Book of Mormon at books.google.com/books?id=wmRNAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Book+of+Mormon&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjc8o6x0efwAhVyHjQIHZ2IBqoQ6AEwAnoECAUQAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
1907 edition of the Book of Mormon at books.google.com/books?id=zVxLJvTEctcC&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
1918 edition of the Book of Mormon at books.google.com/books?id=Ej8qAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Book+of+Mormon&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjc8o6x0efwAhVyHjQIHZ2IBqoQ6AEwAHoECFAQAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
Mormon and the Book of Mormon, Mark E. Petersen, Friend, vol 14, n 5, May 1984 at www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/friend/1984/05/mormon-and-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng
America's Destiny by Marion G. Romney, General Conference, October 1975 at www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1975/10/americas-destiny?lang=eng
Jesus the Christ by James E. Talmage, Chapter 41: Personal Manifestations of God the Eternal Father and of His Son Jesus Christ in Modern Times at www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/jesus-the-christ/chapter-41?lang=eng
Doctrines of Salvation vol 3, p. 592-593 at archive.org/details/Doctrines-of-Salvation-volume-3-joseph-fielding-smith/page/n137/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
The Improvement Era, June 1928, vol 31, no 8, p 680-681, June 1928 at archive.org/details/improvementera3108unse/page/680/mode/2up?q=All+of+these+incidents+to+which+I+have+referred+%5Bthe+battles+at+Hill+Cumorah+in+the+Book+of+Mormon%5D%2C+my+brethren+and+sisters%2C+are+very+closely+associated+with+this+particular+spot+in+the++state+of+New+York
Ninety-Eighth Semi-Annual Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, October 7, 1927, p 23 at archive.org/details/conferencereport1927sa/page/n23/mode/2up?view=theater&q=Cumorah
Ninety-Eighth Semi-Annual Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, October 7, 1927, p 45 at archive.org/stream/conferencereport1927sa#page/n45/mode/2up/search/Cumorah
History, 1834-1836, Page 79 on josephsmithpapers.org at www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/83#full-transcript
Journal of Discourses vol. 12, p. 341-342, December 27, 1868 at jod.mrm.org/12/338
Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, p. 63, August 25, 1878 at jod.mrm.org/20/62
Journal of Discourses, vol. 17, p. 30, April 6, 1874 at jod.mrm.org/17/24
Times And Seasons Vol 2, p 379, April 15, 1841 at archive.org/details/TimesAndSeasonsVol2/page/n327/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
Times And Seasons Vol 2, p 391-392, May 1, 1841 at archive.org/details/TimesAndSeasonsVol2/page/n349/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
Joseph Smith, Times And Seasons Vol 6, p 1076, January 1, 1846 at archive.org/details/TimesAndSeasonsVol6/page/n313/mode/2up?q=who+was+known+from+the+hill+Cumorah%2C+or+Eastern+sea%2C+to+the+Rocky+Mountains
Millennial Star Collection on archive.org at archive.org/search.php?query=Cumorah&and[]=collection:%22millennialstar%22&sin=TXT
Juvenile Instructor, vol 8, no 14, July 1873, p108-109 at archive.org/details/juvenileinstruct814geor/page/108/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
Juvenile Instructor, vol 15, no 23, December 1880, p 267 at archive.org/details/juvenileinstruct1523geor/page/266/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
Juvenile Instructor, vol 47, no 9, September 1912, p 496-499 at archive.org/details/juvenileinstruct479geor/page/n5/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
Juvenile Instructor, vol 49, no 10, October 1914, p 646-648 at archive.org/details/juvenileinstruct4910geor/page/646/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
Juvenile Instructor, vol 54, no 10, October 1919, p 551-553 at archive.org/details/juvenileinstruct5410geor/page/552/mode/2up?q=Cumorah
Juvenile Instructor Collection on archive.org at archive.org/search.php?query=Cumorah&and[]=collection:%22juvenileinstructor%22&sin=TXT
etc.
@@dankuchar6821 You said, "The Church has no official stand on the matter."
This single link, let alone all of the others I provided you, seems to disagree:
abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/cumorah-hill?lang=eng
It says:
"Cumorah, Hill
See also Book of Mormon; Moroni, Son of Mormon; Smith, Joseph, Jr.
A small hill located in western New York, United States of America. Here an ancient prophet named Moroni hid the gold plates containing some of the records of the Nephite and Jaredite nations. Joseph Smith was directed to this hill in 1827 by the resurrected Moroni to get these plates and translate a portion of them. This translation is the Book of Mormon.
Nephites gathered at Cumorah, Morm. 6:2-4.
Cumorah was in a land of many waters, Morm. 6:4.
Mormon hid the records in the Hill Cumorah, Morm. 6:6.
All but twenty and four Nephites were slain at Cumorah, Morm. 6:11.
We hear glad tidings from Cumorah, D&C 128:20.
Joseph Smith took plates from the Hill Cumorah, JS-H 1:42, 50-54, 59."
@@adamholloway7963
You are confusing the colloquial term for the hill Cumorah, which is what many Mormons later called that hill in New York where Joseph Smith was directed to the gold plates. They used to call it Mormon Hill. It was only later that people, because they misread the book of Mormon, referred to that hill as the hill Cumorah. The name stuck.
The debate is whether that hill is the same hill referred to in the book of Mormon. There is no official church doctrine that states that hill is the original hill Cumorah as referred to in the book of Mormon.
Careful reading of the book of Mormon will help people to understand the confusion and the debate. Mormon, The prophet whom the book of Mormon is named after, states that he buried all the sacred records in the hill Cumorah, except for the few plates that he gave to his son, Moroni. These are the gold plates that were given to Joseph Smith. The gold plates were never buried in the Hill Cumorah.
I will refer you directly to the book of Mormon.
Mormon 6:6
And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.
Moroni wandered for 36 years before he buried those plates. The name of the place where those plates were buried was never specified. And so many people assume that the Hill Cumorah where all the sacred records were buried, is the same hill in New York state where the gold plates were buried. This is never stated and therefore cannot be assumed. And as much more likely that Moni, who wandered around alone for 36 years, wandered up to New York and buried the gold plates there in a prominent hill where they could be found later when he directed Joseph Smith to the exact spot where he buried them. This hill, is not the hill Cumorah Wear his father buried all of the sacred records except the plates that he gave to Moroni.
The church has no official position on the matter. You can find references where the church says very specifically that they have no official position on the matter. You will find many documents from church history where people have given their opinions. But opinions are not doctrine and are not official LDS church declarations. Official LDS church declarations will have the signatures of the first presidency and the quorum of the twelve apostles. Most scholars of religion that teach at the church owned University, Brigham Young University, believe that the original Hill Cumorah is in Central America and is not the hill in New York where Moroni buried the gold plates.
I have given you the official book of Mormon reference and so you can read it for yourself.
There are many places with the same name. And it can cause confusion. People began to call a hill in New York state the Hill Cumorah instead of Mormon Hill. That doesn't make it the same hill where the records were buried originally. Careful reading of the book of Mormon makes this clear.
I hope this clears up your confusion.
The Nephites were not Jews! They were of the tribe of Joseph. Lehi taught that to his posterity in First Nephi.
Lehi Abe his family as well as Ishmael and his family were not Jews but descended fro Joseph thru ephraim and Manasseh.
The Zarahemla you are speaking of was names that by the saints. That is a city that they built. However, the original was in South America. The place of cement houses was in the southwest. Also, 30 b.c. there were a group of Nephites that went up northward. This is the start of the Hopewell culture. This idea that the small neck of land being in the great lakes is a joke. The book of Mormon also states that there were serpents around the narrow neck of land. This is in Panama, not Michigan or New York. Even Joseph Smith states that the Nephites landed in the south.
Hello mjb-od6tr, please don't take this as a rude statement from me, but just about everything you said in your comment is incorrect, and I will address all of the things you mentioned. First, Zarahemla, Iowa was not named by the saints (as some think was done in 1839). It was the Lord told who Joseph to name that area Zarahemla in March, 1841, recorded in D&C 125. Some people in the Church try to diminish this revelation from the Lord by arguing that Church members had already named that spot Zarahemla as early as July of 1839 and that the name’s meaning is no different than naming other modern cities after Book of Mormon names, such as Lehi, Nephi, Bountiful, Moroni, Manti, and so on, and that the Lord was merely giving His approval in 1841 for the name, Zarahemla, selected by the saints in 1839. Church members of this incorrect opinion use the July 2, 1839, entry in the book called Manuscript History of the Church, vol. C-1, pg. 957, written by Thomas Bullock, but he didn't write it until February-July of 1845, which is about 4 years after the Lord gave the revelation to Joseph in March of 1841. The source material that Thomas used for that entry in History vol. C-1 is from Joseph Smith’s personal 1839 journal (2 July, 1839, JS Journal 1839, pg. 5, written by James Mulholland at Joseph’s request). Joseph's journal entry from July 2, 1839, only mentions that land was recently purchased on the Iowa side of the Mississippi River and that a town ought to be built there. No name for the town is ever mentioned. It isn't until March of 1841 that the Lord tells Joseph to build a city there and call it Zarahemla, which is the first time that area is ever called Zarahemla, and it is named by the Lord, not the saints. And then it isn't until 4 years later in February-July of 1845 that Thomas writes History vol. C-1 and uses the name Zarahemla when re-writing the 1839 entry, because by that time, Zarahemla had been the name of the town for 4 years ever since the revelation in 1841. Zarahemla is 1 of only 4 places that I know of that the Lord personally names in this dispensation. The other 3 places are: [1] Zion, the New Jerusalem in Missouri, D&C 84:1-3, [2] Adam-ondi-Ahman in Missouri, D&C 116, and [3] the land of Cumorah in New York, D&C 128:21-22. Each of those places that the Lord names has great significance, and I believe Zarahemla is no exception.
Also, the Hopewell Mound-builder culture is much older than 30 BC. The oldest Hopewell sites are from the 500s BC, starting in Florida and spreading to Tennessee, with a separate group up in Iowa (even later Hopewell sites such as Ohio and New York start in the 200s and 100s BC). Lehi's group arrived in the Land of First Inheritance (Florida) around 590 BC and Mulek's group arrived further north (St. Lawrence Seaway) sometime after 587 BC, picking up Coriantumr, the last known Jaredite, who was probably near Lake Ontario in the area of the Hill Ramah (the Hill Cumorah to the Nephites) in New York where the final Jaredite battle was. And it's geologically/archaeologically recorded that the Great Lakes water levels were much higher during the Adena/Hopewell Mound-builder time periods (due to locations of their ruins not going past the ancient shorelines, as well as ancient middle-eastern style ship anchors being found at those sites), so Coriantumr could have shown Mulek's group a water route to Zarahemla (in Iowa), where the Book of Mormon says Mulek's group stayed clear up until they were discovered by King Mosiah and the Nephites. The Florida landing matches Iroquois stories of ancestors arriving in boats, and the St. Lawrence Seaway / Great Lakes landing matches Algonquin stories of ancestors arriving in boats, and the oldest Hopewell sites in Florida, Tennessee and Iowa in the 500s BC match a Nephite/Lamanite landing/separation and a Mulekite landing those areas. The cement houses of the southwest U.S. are newer than Book of Mormon times, estimated between the 500s AD to 1500 AD.
And the continents we know today as North and South America were much different during Book of Mormon times. The Book of Mormon says that the major destruction after Christ's crucifixion greatly changed the land, making it unrecognizable from what it used to be. Around 560 BC, the prophet Jacob told the Nephites “the Lord has made the sea our path, and we are upon an isle of the sea” (2 Nephi 10:20). North and South America are large continents, not isles (islands), but the Adena/Hopewell lands (the eastern United States and southeast Canada) were once 1 large island nearly separated into 2 islands by the Great Lakes and their higher water levels. The ancient Western Interior Seaway and Hudson Seaway were the West and North Seas (the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico were the East and South Seas). These ancient Seaways separated the eastern US and southeast Canada from the rest of North America (the rest of North and South America were also divided into smaller islands by ancient seaways). Mainstream academia says these seaways existed 95 to 65 million years ago, and that the single continent, Pangaea, started splitting apart 200 million years ago, and that the Earth was covered with water 3 to 1 billion years ago. But we know from The Bible that the Earth was covered by water only 4,375 years ago, and that Pangaea split apart only 4,275 years ago, which means that the Western Interior Seaway and Hudson Seaway existed during the time of the Jaredites (Adena) and the Nephites/Lamanites (Hopewell). And again, the Great Lakes water levels were higher, leaving possibly 1 (but no more than 3) narrow necks of land dividing the eastern U.S. and southeast Canada, making them both 2 large islands each about the size of Greenland, and when looked at as a single island, still smaller than the continent Australia. The Mohawk word "Niagara" literally means "Neck". The Book of Mormon doesn't say there was only one narrow neck, we just assume that. There could have been 2 or 3, especially since it talks about a narrow neck, a narrow pass, and a narrow strip. Anyway, I don't know how long it took for the Western Interior Seaway and Hudson Seaway to disappear, but surely the destruction at the time of Christ's crucifixion had something to do with it, and by the time the Europeans arrived in the Americas 1,500 years later, they were the continents of North and South America that we see today. Also, when the Europeans arrived, the Grand Kankakee Marsh and Great Black Swamp extended off of Lakes Michigan and Erie far down into Indiana, which were the last remnants of the higher water levels of the Great Lakes and were loaded with poisonous snakes and not drained until the 1800s. Even today, there are lots of snakes in those areas.
As for Lehi landing somewhere in South America - Joseph Smith never said that. There are several sources for that claim. The first source is an article in the Times and Seasons, September 15, 1842 called “Facts Are Stubborn Things”, which says that Lehi landed a little south of the Isthmus of Darien (Panama). This is an unsigned article, and so is the wishy washy "Zarahemla" article from Oct. 1, 1842, which says in the first 2 paragraphs that the ruins of Quirigua, Guatemala, are Zarahemla, and then says maybe they're not. Joseph Smith would not have written such a wishy washy article, and whenever he did put an article in the Times and Seasons, he always included his name with it. So when people say that Joseph wrote those articles, it's only an assumption and most likely incorrect. It is possible that Joseph approved those articles since he was the chief editor of the Times and Seasons from March 1 - November 15, 1842, but even that is only an assumption, because he was often in hiding from the law during that time and too busy with other duties to worry about the Times and Seasons (as he admits in his resignation letter in the Nov. 15 issue). And in contradiction to Panama being Lehi's landing, a second source says Lehi landed in Chile, which is also said to have come from Joseph Smith. This source is known as The Bernhisel Manuscript, pg. 135, from 1845. John Bernhisel wanted to make a copy of Joseph Smith's manuscripts containing Joseph's inspired corrections to The Bible, so Emma Smith loaned them to him. John wrote his own copy, and near the end of his own copy, he wrote a note that said Lehi landed on the continent of South America in Chile, 30 degrees south latitude. John's note is also the exact same quote word for word that Frederick G. Williams wrote on his own page of notes from sometime in the Kirtland era. Because of these things, people say that it's Joseph Smith's quote, but those writings are not from Joseph and it's only an assumption that he said it.
I have done extensive research on every quote I can find from early Church history relating to Book of Mormon people and lands. I talk about them in my video called "Quotes on Where The Book of Mormon Happened" ( ua-cam.com/video/TO-qDQlcJpg/v-deo.html ). If you know of a quote I have missed that is not in that video, please mention it in the comments of that video. Thanks!
If there was a battle there, there would be archeological evidence and remains found
If you would, please refer to the comment I left in the general comment thread.
it hasn't been excavated. Indians against Mormons, there is no armor or canons or military type stuff.
What evidence would you expect to find after 1400 years? Gosh, it’s hard to find much evidence on the ground from the American Revolutionary War and that was 250 years ago.
@@yasaf934 If you would, please refer to the comment I left in your general comment thread.
@@StandardMan0 You said, "What evidence would you expect to find after 1400 years? Gosh, it’s hard to find much evidence on the ground from the American Revolutionary War and that was 250 years ago."
There is A LOT of evidence of civilizations and their cultures that are much older than 1400 years. In fact there is an entire scientific specialty dedicated to that. It is called Archaeology.
Don't want to be that guy, but Lehi and his family were from the tribe of Manassah, not Judah (Jew-dah) and therefore were not Jews.
The Book of Mormon clearly describes Zarahemla and the river Sidon as being in South America. Hundreds of ancient structures also confirm this.
It is more clear that Zarahemla is in Chiapas, Mexico next to the Sidon River which flows northward into the sea, as described in the BOM. Thousands of Mayan and Olmec (northward) structures confirm this. The very high concentrations of gold and silver in this area and northward in Mexico also confirm it. The "up and down" movements of the armies also confirm it. The directions to seas, wildernesses, rivers, and narrow necks of land also confirm this. Etc.
Nice story and so is the story that the hill we call Cumotah, has any connection to the actual hill. It's just a hill which early saints started calling Cumorah. It's probably not even be the same hill where Joseph retrieved the plates. I don't think Joseph ever made such a claim. It's pure folklore.
I'm not an expert, or a botanist, but the foliage in the picture with the steel plate looks nothing like the foliage at the Hill Cumorah. I've been there multiple times----walked all over the hill and have taken pictures. The foliage in the picture looks more like Utah. Where's the evidence these pictures are legit?
My archaeology professor told us that the Hill Cumorah is actually the only thing that is objectively falsifiable about the alleged historical story of the the Book of Mormon. He said that "if" there was actually a battle at that location, as described in the Book of Mormon, there would be plenty of archaeological evidence to confirm such a battle (at that time), and this would provide an objective measure of historical support to at least one event recorded in the Book of Mormon. If the LDS Church wanted to provide its first point of objective evidence to support the historicity of the story, that could be universally accepted by even skeptics, they should excavate the Hill Comorah.
However, this action is a double-edged sword because if nothing is found, then it could do great harm to the historicity of the story and the Book of Mormon. The LDS Church understands this risk and prefers to avoid any excavation of the site, claiming that the site is religiously sacred. Apparently, never having any objective verification of the truth of the story is safer than running the risk that no evidence would be found and the historicity of the Book of Mormon taking a severe hit. Better to tell people "it's true and "have faith", than to provide objective evidence and have faith based on fact.
Dr. Englemeyer told us that he very strongly believed that they would find nothing significant at the site, in an archaeological excavation, that would support such a story and a great battle at the site, during the time the battle is claimed to have occurred. He believed that LDS archaeologists were well aware of this and that is why they have not pushed this point. He felt they would continue to hide behind the excuse that the site was "too sacred to excavate". He expressed awareness that many LDS members would be critical of his statements, but he said he will stand behind his claims and the burden of proof is upon the LDS Church to prove him wrong (but don't hold your breath that they will do this because the risk is too great and they are confident nothing is there).
Since the time he said this (about 1980), I have thought of the points he expressed and I consider the points he made to be very reasonable. There remains only conjecture concerning any objective support for the historicity of the Book of Mormon.
Be Well,
DZ
God wants us to have a spiritual witness of the restoration not an archaeological witness of the restoration
Exactly, but there's nothing wrong with learning about supportive evidence of The Book of Mormon. Learning such things doesn't mean you're doubting or disrespecting your spiritual witness given from God. Joseph Smith taught the people in Zion's Camp that the mounds they were crossing over and the bones in them were evidence of The Book of Mormon.
So, many thousands of warriors died in a great battle to the death at the hill Cumorah did they?.
Here is a golden opportunity for the LDS church prove Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon is not fiction.
Thousands of artifacts, weapons, armour, human remains etc must still be waiting to be found.
The LDS church actually owns that hill, no Jewish artifacts have been found or have probably been looked for by that church , it is that church's great and obvious opportunity, you may draw your own conclusions.
I used to work at Hill Cumorah for two years in the late 1980s having grown up 3 miles up the road. While working there, I witnessed all kinds of excavations for everything from electric lines to water lines, some of which were for the campgrounds they installed just north of the base of the hill, but not used for camping any more. These many trenches never produced any Lamanite or Nephite finds whatsoever. No swords or steel spears or arrows or skulls, what have you. Nothing from some supposed vast battle wiping out an army. The church never gave any thought about such things when they put in buildings, parking lots, paved pathways, all of it. They never once did a single archeological survey ahead of ANYTHING. They just drew up plans and in came the dozers and excavators. I wonder if they believed any of it themselves. Because if they did, they didn't act like it.
They have more than that. Didn't you pay attention to the video about the room? What do you suppose the room was used for? After more than 1,600 years, I would imagine that any weapons of war that survived would be much deeper than where the wires you mentioned would have been placed! Thank goodness for Wayne May working hard to find proofs of the Book of Mormon, even if it is little by little!!!
Wouldn't the hill be full of artifacts that the church could use to prove this fictional tale true? Just a preponderance of bones with Jewish DNA?
Or even one piece of bone.
@@kevinmorgan8534 I can't believe people are this intentionally ignorant
Hear say
It is my understanding that Oliver named the hill Cumorah. Oliver stated that there was a room in the hill also. Oliver also accused Joseph of adultery, at least he spread rumors that Joseph Smith committed adultery. How can Oliver be trusted? If plates were there, or if there is a room that the Church knows about, the Church would make it known.
Hello! Did you watch all of the video! The room is known!!!
More p r by the church to neutralize the tithing diversion scandal?
Wrong! In the manual of the Book of Mormon clearly said: Moroni might have named the Cumorah, after the old place, where he came from. One point you are missing: The Lamanites were freezing their butts the whole time! Also, why you are speaking like you have authority? You shouldn’t speak for the church or even pretending to be an authority in the matter. Another point you are missing: Moroni, dedicated the spot for the Manti and Saint George temples, on the way up to the NY area.
hahahahahaha
Nephites and Lamanites were not Jews.