Yoshi-P Looks To SHAKE UP FFXIV Job & Raid Experience
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- 𝗛𝗘𝗟𝗣 𝗠𝗘 𝗖𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗧𝗘 𝗠𝗢𝗥𝗘 𝗙𝗢𝗥 𝗬𝗢𝗨. 𝗦𝗨𝗣𝗣𝗢𝗥𝗧 𝗢𝗡 𝗣𝗔𝗧𝗥𝗘𝗢𝗡: / quazii
Naoki Yoshida talks about his plans to change up combat in FF14 - both job and raids.
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𝗦𝗢𝗨𝗥𝗖𝗘𝗦 𝗨𝗦𝗘𝗗 𝗜𝗡 𝗩𝗜𝗗𝗘𝗢
multiplayer.it/articoli/final...
hardcoregamer.com/yoshi-p-tal...
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𝐓𝐀𝐋𝐊 𝐓𝐎 𝐌𝐄 𝐎𝐍 𝐒𝐎𝐂𝐈𝐀𝐋𝐒
Twitter: / imquazii
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![Real Talk: FFXIV Dawntrail & Looking Ahead [No Spoilers]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q_DPqsWYZuU/mqdefault.jpg)
Sources to both Yoshi-P Interviews:
multiplayer.it/articoli/final-fantasy-14-dawntrail-naoki-yoshida-ci-parla-di-narrazione-di-design-e-del-bilanciamento.html
hardcoregamer.com/yoshi-p-talks-raid-woes-field-operation-in-final-fantasy-xiv-dawntrail/
“We’re gonna focus on making jobs unique and different” *makes tanks even more identical in combat*
This...
I don't know if they'll do it or how they'll do it - but I would really like to see a Magic/Caster Tank Job. I guess you could argue Blue can be that - but I mean a real non-limited full on caster tank.
@@KoboldPip paladins and dark knights are crying rn lol
I believe it was in his interview with Mr Happy that YoshiP said again that in 8.0 they will focus more on improving job Identity and deeper job redesigns. This xpac was largely focused on the graphics updates and bringing back lots of group content.
Exactly. We may get a few updates or mini reworks in dawntrail but I’m jot expecting major job changes until 8.0
I can’t stress enough to the FFXIV community, how awesome Quazii is. He’s been a blessing to the WoW community.
You dont have to tell us… we know this lol ❤
We’ve know for a few years now. He has actual thoughtful takes and his positivity is so refreshing. Hope he brings that to WoW as well.
@@burtwonk oh for sure! Best 1 minute Mythic Plus tips ever.
Simp
He is a real blessing, he is not like most of the ffxiv youtuber who just cry on screen
The only other one i can name who does not cry on screen is mr happy
The issue about the current system that has affected me is the better you become at the game, the worse it feels to play. You eventually start to realize wait there's only really like 4 jobs in this game, tank, dps, healer, and BLU. All jobs feel the same after you realize they're all built around that 2 minute buff window and the same reused boss mechanics with different art assets to disguise the fact they're all fundamentally the same. And it doesn't help that the jobs rotation and abilities is built to follow a strict 3 phase system. Opener > filler > burst. It feels like I'm just pressing a strict sequence of buttons which doesn't feel engaging at all once your brain builds that muscle memory and all you're really doing at that point is staring at the colorful orange, red, purple, green telegraphs that pop up and avoiding them. Now I'm not saying like it's completely easy, but it's just too much of the same thing. It's like watching paint dry, but which color of paint am I gonna watch dry today. I understand I'm just complaining, but my frustration comes from the idea that I absolutely love this game but it's just holding itself back from realizing it's full potential in the form of mundane and outdated combat systems. I get that the game is running on old systems that might make these type of changes incredibly difficult, but I'm really really hoping they can truly elevate what they have now.
"the better you get the worse it feels to play"
Are you really better? Lol
None of the healers feel the same to me outside Astro and whm because their base spells are very identical.
i miss skips in bosses. every cruise chaser, every lamtrix strikepox was different every week. the coils had awful HP% skips but they had something going on with the alexander series.
biggest reason why i was disappointed in stormblood. your gameplay never mattering until 11 minutes into the fight where it arbitrarily enrages or not.
I just love Yoshi-P. He's here to hear *all* concerns, and I'm just so grateful that he's willing to try and make improvements. We'll see where it goes.
Yoshi-P is so amazing that it actually makes me scared thinking about him leaving - because he's touched on the idea a few times recently; passing it onto a new generation I think he said, so I hope whoever takes Yoshida's position in the future has as much love and passion for the game and the community as YoshiP
@@KoboldPip Yoshi-P isn't leaving FFXIV, he has talked about that multiple times not too many months ago. The interviews you're referring to were about FF16 and future FF titles, so FF17. He was asked if he would accept working on FF17 to which he stated he'd like to give that to younger generations! So you don't need to worry when it comes to FFXIV imo.
Great content, thanks for summary! Don’t have time to keep with all those interviews.
In media tour there was an interview by Vadal(spanish videogame media since 1997).They ask about the spanish tranlation, Vandal show him the offical forum were the petition was created not long ago to yoshiP and he ask to the Goblal community Producer (toshio) have a look to the forums.
Square Enix is now open to localizing ffxiv into Spanish, thanks to the new director Takashi, he want to bring all next SE titles to most ppl posible.
Didnt expect an italian outlet to get an interview, but it does mean that the game has grown greatly in popularity there
I don't think the success of FFXIV or Endwalker really has anything to do with the simplification of jobs. FFXIV's popularity stems largely from its story, from its style, and from its community far more than its combat system. It's true that there are probably far more players who just want something flashy that doesn't take a lot of time or effort to learn and enjoy the key parts of FFXIV, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I don't think these people joined FFXIV or stay subbed because jobs are as simple as they are, and I don't think these same people would be unhappy with the state of the game if job complexity were something closer to what say Stormblood had to offer. Because even when jobs were harder or more complex, getting through the story, through your roulettes, through most of the content in general has never been something that job complexity has walled. Even when we had harder alliance raids like Orbonne or Weeping City, players weren't wiping because their DPS was bad from not playing their jobs optimally and failing enrages. Wipes happened because the mechanics were tougher. All in all, I do hope that these talks of more job identity are true, and that 8.0 will feel like a huge step forward for job design. I just wish we didn't have to wait a full expansion, because 2.5 years is a long time to ask for us to wait for something that's been talked about since as early as Shadowbringers.
I think a pretty big factor was actually covid. I myself started FFXIV after I got laid off from my job at the start of Covid. Many people had nothing to do so many decided to try out FFXIV. The free trial really helped their too. I think Covid pulled FFXIV into the lime light. Of course the game being as wonderful as it is is why we all stuck around though. I'm all for more difficult content and more unique jobs. I think people who aren't all for that will just not learn their rotation but they are already doing that.
Amazing creator, saving me so much time!
I've heard similar statements the past 10 years. I have a hard time believing they are going to step away from the streamlining they did.
Very nicely done Quazii! Your points are well taken. A large MMO must appeal to a diverse player base. Think of it as a great banquet. Some like it spicy, some do not. There are dishes at the banquet to satisfy each. On job design there are several ways to approach this. The first is to have different jobs for different tastes. That solves the core problem, but results in large differences in how often different jobs are played. Look at job frequency in raid statistics. This also leads to some players feeling excluded because their favorite job isn’t optimal for certain content. This leads to calls for jobs to be “fixed”, even though some players love them as they are. The other considerations use two principles, “easy to learn, hard to master” and “jobs change in some content”. PVP is an example of the latter. I'm wondering if the second principle might be applied to some raid content. Combining all of this is the elegant answer, but a huge challenge for developers. Master craftsmanship when it is achieved. I love this game and appreciate the sincere and thoughtful efforts of the developers.
If 7.0 is their attempt to provide a new baseline for classes so that from 7.1 onwards and new expansions can begin rebuilding and re-iterating on class identity then I am fine with playing something simpler in the short term to begin seeing more unique class expression in the future. Its as the said. This expansion was focusing on graphics and raid design. Going forward it'l be job focused.
always fun to listen to you while waking up. Aside that, I agree. The minor group that complains are usually the ones that are really number crunching and someone like me, i take fighting games serious to look up moves and combos and strats but i dont do the frame data for myself on occasions. Same with FFXIV i play to have fun relax and the occasional challenges. I dont have a group i run with really so i don't savage content or ultimate for that matter, and just hope for some interesting dungeons to get drops and the cool looking trials along the way.
I've been complaining for 5 years because having nothing to do other than press 1-1-1-1-1 with no deeper thought is neither fun nor engaging.
@@billy65bob summoner be like
@@billy65bob I haven't been playing for that long but I will agree jobs could use some freshening up. I started in ShadowBringers and I have to say I did find Endwalker raid wise to be less fun for me than Shadowbringers. I was actually pretty disappointed tbh
I do want to say I an very happy to hear they are going to change things. I really didn't enjoy things quite as much in Endwalker compared to Shadowbringers(when I started). I really hope all goes well
To be fair about ppl complaining but still high sub numbers, I complain yet I still play and pay my sub every month, because at the end of the day no other MMO combat is as fun to me as playing random jobs in ultimates.
There’s also the fact that people subscribe to this game for things other than the jobs and combat. I know people who play strictly to get through the story and then Role Play.
I subscribe and don't play that much anymore, just to keep my house LOL
Yeah I mean, it’s a world for us. We should complain about stuff so the world is shaped in a way we hope it will be, just like in real life.
people complain more about things they love.
I'm feeling increasingly alienated by the autoplay the game is turning into.
Like i have no motivation to raid in Dawntrail whatsoever knowing they're just dumbing things down even further.
I just want the difficulty from Heavensward and Stormblood back for both jobs and normal raids.
Absolutely for raids - including Alliance raids. There's no reason to dumb down optional content.. I can get dumbing down MSQ content - sure it's story it's meant to be enjoyed not conquered, but optional side content SHOULD be where the challenge is
@@KoboldPip I hate the new "WoW mentality" that has came over in the last 2-4 years where people now act like normals and alliance raids are supposed to be faceroll easy and if you want to try "just go do savage bro". That is never how FFXIV was and it shouldn't cater to these people now.
I would agree for raids from Stormblood especially Alliance raids. Ivalice felt extremely long but it was also super cool to me. I can't remark on Jobs because I started in Shadowbringers. I'm all for trying it out though but I also have no life so I have time to learn
Very interesting to see other's opinion about the jobs. But I have no strong opinion about how they should change the jobs so I can only tell my current experience and thought with how they are now...
I enjoy casual raiding but I'm not skilled enough to use jobs such as Monk and Black Mage on them. Actually, I always use physical ranged (mostly Machinist and Dancer) on progs. But they are my favorite jobs of their role so far, specifying Melee and Caster DPS ( lets see if picto or viper will change it soon 👀). Although I still play with these jobs a lot because I usually use them on Roulettes and others contents because most of them are easy. And by playing with these jobs makes these casual contest more fun to me.
So my only opinion is that I would prefer to see some jobs hard to play with and others easier. I'm totally fine by using Monk only in casual contents and Dancer for hard ones. Now about making these hard jobs be more rewarding gameplay-wise looks hard to balance? Personaly, learning how to do decent rotation with Monk which is a job that I like a lot is rewarding enough. To think when I was a sprout I gave up on Monk and was sad about it and now I use it a lot in casual contents makes me happy.
Agreed on the job identity being important.
From my perspective, the people who just want to mash buttons will be happy mashing buttons whether the jobs are deep or shallow, there is no need to try and design for them specifically. Casual players survived Heavensward and Stormblood. We don't need to bring back HW-era failstates, I just wanna have some more decision making and reactivity in the jobs so I'm not falling asleep in normal modes.
I've made many comments on this already, but you made so many interesting points! Last one, I swear.
I think that subscriber count does not accurately reflect that FF has made strides in its combat design, because there are far too many factors that leads into an increase in players.
- One not talked about enough: with Endwalker, FF14 has the most generous free trial of any mmo and probably any video game ever. So much so that the lack of basic communication features are far outweighed by the sheer amount of content you get to play through.
- The pandemic, of course
- There has been a huge wave of qol improvements across the board
- Trusts make the game aside from trials and raids very solo player friendly
- pvp is greatly improved, providing the players into that evergreen content
- Endwalker makes the end of a saga which people want to see the finale to.
Dissatisfaction in one area definitely doesn't make the game bad nor is the combat so bad that it justifies people leaving in spades. So the game will continue to grow, but that doesn't mean it's not itself a pain point.
I really hope we start seeing some job reworks in the 8.x patches, given how barebones some are, it'd be the time to experiment.
I'm thinking of dark knight for example. They could do something like turn abyssal drain back into a spell, dealing less damage than flood and not granting darkside but healing you. It'd add a small risk of failure if you abuse it and then are short on MP to use TBN or refresh darkside.
They could make that new combo be useable at the cost of darkside, with a slower GCD, and be free (and restoring MP/blood) and faster when using delirium.
Maybe Living Shadow could give ressources based on the skills it uses (give you some MP when using quietus and bloodspiller, and carve & spit, stuff like that)
I'd love to see a bit of a Samurai rework. Looking at the new skills, the rotation is basically the same as EW with new skills just replacing the old.
@@KLGChaos Seems to be the case of most jobs. And tbh I can hardly blame the devs. It can be very hard to reinvent the wheel especially if the job is at a good place (see RDM barely changing over the expansions)
ill believe it when i see it tbh i cant speculate on future job additions anymore the devs seem to be on a different wavelength. after thinking of what they could have done with summoners new solar bahamut vs what they endded up doing with it (they made it play literally identical the other 2 demi summons) then theres whatever is goin on with blm lol. there more likley to just remove abyssal drain than actulaly do any of that stuff to it
I think the job design needs to come first because I think it would fit together better knowing what melee/ranged uptime looks like before designing jobs. It's a lot easier to build more uptime into fights than it is retroactively fit jobs and make them all feel different with similar uptime windows
i want healers to be more complex tbh. Healers now is too boring. No procs, no mechanics to follow just spam heal buttons without rotation or do 1 button dps...
It’s WoW all over again where I feel like as a long term player of 9-10 years I helped “set up” the game by supporting it for years and now it has been changed and neutered to appease new and bad players and now it’s not for me anymore. It sucks. The new players should need to adapt to the game and long time players, not the other way around.
I couldn't possibly receive happier news, shame it'll take till 8.0 but I hope it really does happen. I specially love the point about making jobs have their own strengths and weaknesses. If a NIN has really good ranged options and MNK has none, don't give it more ranged options, make their melee damage especially deadly to make up for it, align the kit with the job fantasy, that kind of thing. You don't need to take it to the extreme as to make certain jobs completely useless in certain content but people should have their glory moments where only their job could do something that way. And similarly people who take the time to get good at multiple jobs should be rewarded in their versatility as well.
Just wait another three years graaaaahhhhhhh
Yeah I'm one of those that love positionals. I'm constantly moving around the boss or battlefield even when I don't have a need to because it just makes the game more enjoyable for me, so positionals give me a direct reason to do that + rewards me for it. My favorite classes uses positionals, so when I heard Monk was getting theirs lessened, I was actually sad about it. Then Dragoon, my main, is now losing some of theirs. I get why it's happening, and yeah that means easier upkeep of optimum dps I guess, but I was hoping they'd just keep it so that the reward for doing the positional is just slightly higher dps instead of removing them entirely. That meant those who didn't do them still were capable in their team, but those who did were, again, rewarded for keeping the rhythm going.
Another thing was knowing when to use True North. Figuring out the best moment to do so against a boss that likes to wiggle around felt great. Now, I don't think it'll be needed as much which disappoints me, but it is what it is.
It's Muscle Memory for me now. Even with MNK having lost their Positionals save for a few right now, I still do all the Positionals that've been there since 2.0. I'll still Armor Crush from Flank, I'll still Trick attack from front. That hasn't been a thing in years. As it stands right now, putting anything big on Positionals anymore is still damning to anyone not able to do them. And while XIV has a generally good community, I do still hear horror tales from my FC about people getting told off for non-optimal play, so I understand the dev's desire to remove the temptation for *someone* getting reported.
@@beatrixkaelin5120 It's muscle memory for me as well whenever I switch to monk and I'm sure it'll be the same with dragoon when the changes are implemented. As for the rest, well it's as I stated later in my post - I would've rather them have the positionals give marginally better damage output as a reward for doing them, so that those who don't do them aren't punished. They made dragoon's positionals that way and I personally liked that balance. I do understand why they're changing it to be even more forgiving, but just because I understand it doesn't mean I'm happy with it.
As for people reporting others for not doing positionals...that's just plain toxic and elitist and I hope the GMs are ignoring such reports.
I'm trying to be positive but as a player since 2.0 beta, it's evident to me that the game I once fell in love with doesn't exist anymore. It gives me hope hearing the interviews and the statements saying "8.0 will fix everything" but I've been hearing that since Shadowbringers. Talk is free and until I see the actual actions backing up these promises I think Dawntrail will be my last expansion.
Their team still has 2 others unannouncement game so the chance the team will be split and stretch thin are high . With all those project going around , i doubt they care enough to do anything to change FF14 gameplay in next expansion , Dawntrail change is pretty lazy and feel like they only work on it for 1 month and push it out, 3.5 year gap between expansion for this lazy change .
I just want yoshi p to make big weapons feel satisfying when we use skills and it also means improve the sounds of the hits. I want him to put mass on enemies so we feel like we are hitting something instead of hitting air.
As in most things, the healthiest refelection of job distribution would be a bell curve. Have a few really easy and really complex jobs with the standard distribution/complexity in the middle at the top of the curve. Reward the complexity at the back end and take stress out at the front end to welcome newer players. The meat of jobs should not be about "reducing player stress", that's aweful in my opinon, and wil reduce the reason players will want to play, as there is no way for players to grow with the game.
Thanks for the video !
I prefer skill expression in class design, but I won't get turned off is a class is too hard or too easy. I'm a fighting game player. If something looks cool and makes me feel cool, I play it. However, the problem I have with FFXIV is that everything makes me feel the same. There's no power fantasy being fulfilled in this game with the exception of Monk, Ninja, Black Mage and Machinist (in this current expansion).
Machinist is a very easy class, however I think it fulfills the power fantasy and class identity very well. I mention this to give an example that identity =/= complexity.
I'm afraid Monk will be losing its power fantasy while they attempt to keep the identity and Black Mage is doing the opposite in DT. Ninja is removing the not fun stuff and leaning more into the identity and the fantasy of the job and Machinist is mostly staying on path. I'm hoping Bard is one that joins the well-designed class list this expansion as the changes look positive.
I also feel like there was a missed opportunity with Viper to make its identity be about stance dancing and make you want to manually go in and out of 2 swords, but it just appears to be do damage until you change forms and then do more damage. Which is what Reaper does, but faster.
I'm not saying bring back stance dances to everything, but there's no reason why SE couldn't have made Viper fulfill that missing power fantasy and class identity.
On the other hand, Pictomancer appears to be very inspired with its identity and power fantasy. It's not a class that I'll play a lot, but it actually has me interested in playing it and experiencing the fantasy and identity of the class.
The way they made BLM paradox take the binding of the fire/blizzard 1 would be a good way to deal with some combos, sure it makes it spammy on that one button but is the button bloat that important. The concentration should always be on the boss mechanics not the class ones imo
I don't really get their approach...
Jobs are foundational, and so it's far more important that they are fun and engaging at every major malmstone (levels 30/50/60/70/80/90/100), even when the content is boring.
The content largely exists in a vacuum, and good job design will make a run with each job feel fun and distinct, even if the content itself is bad.
The inverse is not the case unless you go out of your way to make more CLLs or Dalriadas, but even then, the mileage is far lesser to a job focus.
whether you adjust content before or not, it won't save you from having to readjust it all after.
IMO what they should do is hold an open beta throughout the 7.x series that any subscriber (no FTs, sorry) can participate in.
The idea will be to pick some casual dungeons/trials, and at the end of the run to prompt participants with a survey to fill out to provide feedback on their experience.
The first stage should target level 30, and at this stage, most jobs should be accessible to newbies, but also have their gimmicks developed sufficiently to satisfy veterans who get bored out of their minds from pressing 1-1-1 ad nauseam.
And they'd go through each major malmstone in order, trying to make the jobs fun and engaging (and hopefully also unique), at each stage.
Dungeons I'd recommend to minimise spoilers for new subscribers participating
30: Haukke Manor
50: Lost City of Amdapor
60: Xelphatol
70: The Temple Of The Fist
80: The Twinning
90: Alzadaal's Legacy or Smileton
100: TBD
As long as "more complex" doesn't equal " more difficult" then I'll support it. Not everything needs to be "difficult" to be enjoyed.
I'm not saying everything needs to be easy either. No matter what happens at that point, there is likely to be a divide in the community.
I just want to be able to focus on learning mechanics etc in content without being overwhelmed by a job being "overly complex". Not all of us who play are Gigachads or even want to be.
Some of us just want to play the game, and do the content without having to perform mental gymnastics in order to be simply "mediocre" at the jobs we play and nuclear physicists in order to enjoy them lol
I haven't played healer, but would it make sense to have some Aoe heals and specific heals also do damage? Would that be an enjoyable experience?
That’s in the game already
@@King-2077 cool!
@@King-2077 which class?
@@Soundwave501stSage off the top of my head. Their class identity is u heal by doing damage.
@@Tholapsyx nice
I'm in the camp of wanting raid damage buffs removed to allow more difference in jobs but I 100% understand why they didn't drastically change everything in DT. New story arc they need to hook people into, the graphical update and I hope what they said about fight mechanics being more varied and harder at the baseline is true as well. That said, I really hope by the next expansion they really give the jobs a shake up so they aren't so close in how they function because some are very similar to a point it can feel like, why even have the ability to switch between jobs if they're gonna be so similar in timings, tools and just general play style.
Overall, a very good response. As much as I loved SHB summoner, and still do, a friend of mine always found it to be a bit much and gave up on playing that job. hopefully they're able to find a balance between a good skill floor and a satisfying skill ceiling. goodness knows it's not easy.
My only issue with FFXIV is the button bloat. It’s why I left the game after Shadowbringers as my wrists were in shambles. I am hoping to return for Dawntrail after I complete Endwalker of course but that’s my one concern I’d love to see addressed in the future.
I can sympathize that it must be so hard to balance all these fights with 20+ jobs. Seems better to balance fights around the ROLES and make sure each job in a given role has the same potential for damage and utility if played well. Field operations are a better venue for exploring the strengths of each individual job imo.
In my opinion, the rigidity of the buff window is what makes jobs rigid and hard to balance, because every job has to be able to get its strongest skills in that 20 second window every 2 mins. If you remove every 8 man buff from the game and increase potencies to compensate, the jobs do not lose so much other than a cooldown to press every 2 mins. However, it opens up the ability to change when jobs burst, or if they would rather focus on sustain damage. We know the 2 min window is the problem, because jobs like Paladin and Summoner had to change to properly conform to this window. The focus should be, in my opinion, on creating support job identities. Ast cards, dnc dance partner, DRG dragon sight and most single target buffs are all good ways to create unique support abilities for the party. And they are linked to job identity, so they serve a purpose.
You would think the 2 min window is not the main problem and it's that you need to simply add things to downtime, but that is not the case. For example, now that AST draws two different decks every minute, you would think you'd use one damage card on odd minute and the other on the even. But AST mains already have determined that you must hold your odd min card til the even window, making the job more rigid.
The 2 Min buff Window is always annoying to me as a group wide thing, I feel like times if you have an unexpected mistake in your rotation or need to move or something happens to you, out of your control like someone else dying, it throws everyones CD's out of order.
Maybe I'm just anti-social, but I love that the 2 minute window let's us align our buffs in a simple way that usually doesn't require any discussion. Frankensteining together an optimal burst phase to me seems pointless, exactly like standing in the aoe to parse, because it regularly sacrifices the group progress in some way for the sake of a personal high. It's selfish, I mean who actually wants teamwork to be difficult?
Mechanics is a different story, but when it comes to DPS, having to focus constantly on what everyone is doing and what the party comp is feels like such a waste of brain power. They could actually make the raid itself more interesting rather than min max burst windows. I'm sorry, but even if it feels good in the moment to do it well, I would rather have a more difficult fight. In theory, anyway, DawnTrail will provide that as compared to Endwalker.
In summary, synchronized burst phase becomes less mental overhead become more difficult mechanics in fights. It's just a slow process we are in the middle of. I believe they're get there.
@@TenzaBurabura nah, you are just anti social and you’re actually the selfish one.
Maybe if you were coming at this from the perspective of only wanting more difficult raid mechanics, I could understand. But what you want is everyone to conform to you in the way of a 2 minute window so you can practice mechanics, completely removing any agency from the DPS players you so clearly despise.
@@TenzaBurabura I also kinda find it funny that people are complaining so hard about the 2-minute burst because it was literally added to the game at the players' request to make things line up easier for raiding. Yoshi-P was legit like "Make up your minds. We did this for you. You need to come to a consensus", you just can't win when you try to cater to ALL of your players, there'll always be someone who's either lazy or a complete try-hard (both ends of the spectrum) fighting tooth and nail for these changes and if they take them into account, it'll piss the others off. Yoshi-P should meet it in the middle or something. I actually kinda like the idea of just outright removing most party-wide buffs in favor of buffing potencies, however, there'll definitely be folks out there who would whine about it removing an aspect of the game being an MMO and relying on your friends to help make those pushes for DPS. like I said, you can't really win because there's far too many conflicting ideas of what "Fun" or "Difficulty" is within the game. Personally, I think the game's great though.
This is exactly what I've been saying too, very hard to make jobs feel unique when for 20s every 120s, everyone does 50% more damage. Probably not going to happen though, as modern fight design is "hard mechanic during burst, raidwide, tankbuster, repeat 12x," and you can't inflate fight difficulty by putting mechs at burst if everyones bursts misalign
Yeah.... sorry. I am not a hardcore raider, though I have done savage raids in the past.
The jobs suck right now. I think it is ludicrous to suggest that it is only a "vocal minority" that is complaining about jobs, since the many people I interact with feel the same.
Casuals tend to main their one or two classes. So they do not care.
But making every class "accessible" in terms of skill level has ruined the game. Listen, maybe it hurts someone's fee fees, BUT NOT EVERY CLASS IS FOR YOU. Some may be too hard, or skill ceiling too high, and you need time and skill to master them.
AND THAT IS OK.
That would be one step in making the game much, much better.
Tanks and Healers need a complete overhaul. Stop listening to people who bitch and moan about "their" tank not being at the top of dps charts. Further separate the "main tank" and "off tank" roles. "Shield healers" and "regen" healers. Stop giving every class everything. My hotbars are almost identical for all tanks and healers, and the difference is basically cosmetic at this point.
You already have a game that has plenty of things to play for casual players. Make more hard content and classes.
Was an Ubergamer my whole MMO career (99-2010ish). I liked hard stuff. MMOs felt like they were getting dumber and dumber as time went on (because it became copy WOW). I have the utmost respect for Yoshi-P and I think that we do need a bit more uniqueness in the jobs. Homogenized playstyles can be a not horrible thing. I think 80/20 or 75/25 (same/uniqueness) would be plenty fine for 14. The other side of the ditch is that if you make classes too unique spreadsheet nerds will just say "W/X/Y/Z is best combo" and then you get people only playing those classes.
You can't design out Elitism, it's still in the game even with the homogeneous nature of the game.
So the game is now "Braindead" easy and you haven't solved the Elitism problem... congratulations.
@@MellowFungus nah they are moving on to greener pasture so the elitism problem is fixing itself
The problem is these ubergamers want to make the funny catgirl mmo super clunky on top of its terrible netcode and convince us that it's skill expression, instead of just getting that from a different game.
@@undercoverspy123 at least half of them uses xivalex and/or noclippy plugins so you'd really need to take their claims with a huge grain of salt, but also tells something of them which I don't think they grasp them much
How about 3 versions of each class, casual variant, challenging variant and custom variant. For easy play difficult play and fun tinkering play. A lot of work for the team but would satisfy pretty much everyone, maybe? Looking forward to Dawntrail.
something like talent trees you say ? lol
So what about what they did with SMN and SCH. It started as a pet job.. it drew in people like me to play the game.. then with the sudden change in EW, i felt betrayed and alienated.
They should make more mechanics like the sword grab in tsusano in raids where tanks actually have to protect the party. As a tank main that feels great. But then you will have the tanks that cry about DPS complaining
didnt yoshi p already addressed this before in a PLL? They said they made the 2 minute meta because of player feedback of how tedious it is to align raid buffs. And i remember him saying the community needs to have a consensus of what direction they want the jobs to take.
Well thats a bit of a catch I think, do you design classes based off of raiding, or raiding based of classes. That is something THEY have to decide.
They dumb down jobs to get more non-mmo's players in. It's why we have npc dungeon runs now.
Single biggest thing I hope they bring back is releasing 2 four mans per patch. I get that it was a ton of work for the dev team, but for the players it makes Expert rou a little less stale because you have four instances that you can get vs just two that you get sick of seeing by the end of the patch.
idk majority of jobs are pretty much the same. i think only like astro got major changes. outside of melee gap closers not doing damage anymore, the rest of jobs pretty much are more of the same.
Unlike WoW developers, Yosh-P plays this game at a high level and understands what's good for the game. Gotta love that man! The passion and hard works he puts into FFXIV (and everyone else involved in the development, of course), is what makes it so great.
I always think the challenges should be from the content (bosses, ect) but not from the combat. Combat should be fun, interesting and feeling good… it should not be a hassle, a big challenge, a hurdle or some kind of difficulty that players must overcome. CDs of combat skills should not be too long either. All combat skills should be ready every rotation with the exception of some emergency skills (skills that keep you safe). Between a skill that will be available once every 2 rotations, I prefer the skill to be ready every rotation. The Potency can be reduced by half and it’s still okay. It will feel better and smoother and less a headache…
I play on controller despite being on PC for years - I started on PS4 so all my muscle memory is locked into controller play and FF XiV's controller support is extremely good! it feels natural and fluid in combat. But Hotbar bloat was becoming a problem when you got to level 90 - so even just having those two hotbar spaces freed up by the combo button addition will make a big difference, for me at least - and I'm so happy they allowed you to disable it for players who don't want it because I'm a big supporter for this game being for casual players and hardcore raiders alike. And as long as they stop tilting the scales more towards casual then it'll work well. It's what makes this game amazing compared to WoW - you can just relax and play, socialise, have fun with people, casually do content or party up and prog Savage tiers on MINE or Ultimates for serious gameplay. I feel like with WoW and it's why I never want to touch it (that and I will never support Blizzard) is that I'd have to be switched on 100% all the time, with no downtime - and constantly be flamed with XBox Kid language for like not having Addle on a trash mob or something...
tl;dr - Controller good. Combo button good. FF XiV Casual vs Hardcore balance is off, Need change. WoW not my favourite. Me no like WoW.
For me, what i have issue with, is people conflate simple jobs = too easy and needs more buttons. You can have have fun, flexible, and solid interactions with other abilities with less buttons, button bloat is quite annoying. WoW does that well. Where your cooldowns actually change your playstyle. People often think we need more buttons to make a job more fun. However the biggest issue, or an issue most of us have is homogeneous jobs. Im glad yoshi p understands this.
Most people over all like things to be easier. Which is why summoner is one of the most played caster jobs in raids,not just because of raise, and they know this even though a lot of the community shits on it.
Button bloat sucks but the way they're handling the tanks is just fucking hillarious.
They remove the potency from the gapclosers, but the game has 10 years of game design where you rarely even need them.
I look at Gnb and Drk's gapclosers in Dawntrail and those are legitimately just button bloat. Where do they fit in, over 10 years of nearly full melee uptime fights. Same thing happend with low blow. I legitimately never found a use for it since they removed potency from low blow.
Need to also pair down the number of abilities for keyboard and mouse players as well. Honestly, I believe it is easier to have all these abilities on the controller, as you can have easier access to 48 key binds than you could with the keyboard / mouse (less finger gymnastics). Honestly, what gamer really wants to have over 30 key binds? Hitting 30 different buttons really doesn’t make the combat more fun.
I do. As a majoirty of the keybinds are probably non critical, but add depth or uniqueness to the class. Give me 100 abilites lol. But let me choose what ones I bind. I love player agency/choice as the opposite is really boring/restrictive. We have the OPTION to play every class on one character, and isn't that great ?
I think the only jobs that play similar are tanks and healers.
My personal take on mechanics and classes boils down to them updating the game's engine. There is many mechanics that are fun in paper but a nightmare in execution due to the current "snapshotting" system. For example the orbs in E6S, damn dog still haunts me with how damn rng it always felt even when we were reclearing for weeks and knew the mechanic perfectly.
As for classes, I am down for less buttons with more power behind them, this is something WoW did right in some of it's expansions, like as a rogue I could use cloak of shadows to negate or speed up some mechanics giving my group a slight advantage.
I don't care about more lenient enrage timers, they don't really matter after week one and only really affect low - mid skill casual players. At least on Savage and Extreme, Ultimates should stay as they are.
Finally I wish they reworked sub stats. Tenacity being worthless and forced upon you in the final relic stage for tanks is just a huge ugh. And personally with so many jobs getting huge potency skills I don't want rng-sus deciding if we did a lot of damage or A LOT!! of damage.
More stressful content is the exact opposite of what I want, personally. And I've never played with anyone who wants that since the game released.
Grown to hate door bosses in savage raid tiers. Much prefer fights with transitional phases…if said fight is meant to be a ‘finale’ or conclusion to a tier.
As far as making melee easier….I agree. Targets/Bosses having smaller hit boxes in the past (along with multiple positionals for melee jobs)…was the logic used for having those jobs deal out more dmg than physical ranged cause they had an easier time maintaining uptime.
They made it easier for melee to maintain uptime over the past few years (as well as adding more support and ‘utility’ functions to them), but more or less didn’t change the balance in terms of dps between what melee can do and what phys ranged can do.
I do wish they would do some unique mechanics for healers. Just casting your offensive spells isn't all that invigorating. If the best time healing in this game is when everything falls apart, then that's not good design for one of the 3 roles of the game.
This is where I have an issue with how much healing they put into the kits of the dps and tanks. Warrior is especially bad and is incredibly boring to heal in content since they're so self efficient. I wish they put more tools into the tank's kit that didn't step onto the feet of healers. Warrior didn't need any more healing in its already overblown kit. This doesn't mean that tanks can't have healing in their kit, but warrior just takes it way too far. In all honesty, I'd probably say gunbreaker might be the most balanced right now for healing in content. I would take a look at paladin if there weren't enough clemency spammers wasting time and mana overhealing with clemency ;otherwise, they feel pretty fair when they actually trust their healer to do their job. Dark knight is definitely a bit too sparse with the amount of healing in their kit, and they could use a little bit more.
As for the dps, the big offenders are summoner and dancer. Although monk's earth's reply really irritates me for dawntrial and reapers weirdly given aoe regen when their shield pops just feels off from their kit. If they were self contained to just them, then I wouldn't feel so bad about it. The auto regen of phoenix and curing waltz probably should be toned down some. Maybe just make curing waltz effect dancer and their dance partner with maybe a bonus cure potency when partnered up. For summoner, all I can think of right now is go with how bard and monk are right now and increase the amount of healing done by healing actions while possibly keeping the regen to themself. That said, I really like how both monk and bard are with how they help the healers heal more instead of healing for them.
At the end of the day, I don't play a healer just to feel like a crapper caster. With all of these healing abilities being placed in the toolkits of the tanks and dps, why am I as a healer going to have to struggle to find any worth in the abundance of healing in my toolkit. Saying this means that they would have to adjust the design of fights, but I would be fine with that as long as I can actually do my role and do some healing outside of someone screwing up or from unavoidable damage be dealt by the boss. I would really appreciate some mechanics that would let me use more of my healing for the party since they give the healers so much of it. Split the party up like some of the raids in alexander so the healer can keep their partner they alive, or give adds that need healing spells to heal them. They've done this before and maybe some more was done in the higher difficutly content, but I don't participate in those content and would like to see some placed in the normal content.
In the next expansion lol
The jobs, IMHO, I pretty stale, but do to the skill graphical artist ism up to par, compare to how amateur modders are able to put out.
DT has , based on the trailer, expanded the aesthetic; so that's a plus.
You can make everyone happy lol Make monk with heavy postionals and make drg with no positonals there you go both sides of the coin are happy a job with tons of postionals and some with none you can make everyone happy its very simple to do
And to think in EW, dragoon had the most positionals
And now in DT, the devs are deleting 100% of them from your 2minute (technically a 6.4 change), and 40% of them from everything else
The friends of mine most complaining about the 2 minute meta making the game stale are usually found raiding 4-6 days out of the week.
I think another issue is that MMO players tend to not distinguish between proper skill expression, and, like, rotational chores. Outside of very few instances, something like positional is not a clever use of skill and does not take skill, it's just an annoying chore on top of what you're already doing. Some people, for whatever reason, do enjoy this chore, but to me, removing them outright wouldn't be dumbing the game down anymore than allowing mana to autofill instead of being only be filled at aetherytes (hello 1.0!) was dumbing it down. Some bullshit that makes things a little more annoying is not necessarily raising the skill ceiling as much as it might be raising chore bloat.
You are the one dont understand and yet decide to talk like you understand dude . Position is clever use of skill , it show how different between a good player handle tight and dangerous situation while can maximize their damage compare to player that cant do it .
PLAYER LIKE YOU ARE THE REAL ISSUE TO THE GAME .
@@thelegendaryjanitor2008 Yes, the scenario you brought up is the "very few instances" exception. In 99% of all gameplay, it's just a chore.
And even in this very rare instance, it's not a clever use of skill, it's just trying to squeeze into a tight space. Which is more "skill" than it normally takes, sure, but it's hardly an advanced tactic. If that was a thing that happened in even 30% of fights, I could see being upset about it going away, but it's such a rare thing it's comical that people like you get up in arms about it. You're not the glorious king of skill you think you are.
Fundamentally, the game itself doesn't actually allow much skill expression, which might be the bigger issue. Simply put, the combat moves at too slow of a pace and the server ticks are so far apart that they can't create many interesting skills that can really change up the battlefield.
For all its many, many glaring flaws, one area where World of Warcraft excels is skill expression. Even many healers have split second tactical decisions to make that can alter the flow of combat. For example, the Preservation Evoker has an AOE line heal, where they fly up in the air and heal over a targeted area. While in the air, they cannot control their character. It's all very quick, happening in a second or two, and despite losing control of your character, it feels very impactful and responsive. You have to consider multiple factors:
1. Is this the proper time to use this cooldown? (A fundamental question for any cooldown in any game, of course)
2. Who is most injured?
3. Among who is most injured, how many can I target at once with this ability?
4. Is anybody outside my AOE going to be in danger of dying while I'm not in control?
5. Where do I choose to land? Do I need to get closer to a tank, closer to an injured DPS, or should I use this in a moment to dodge a mechanic?
These are serious considerations for every time you use the ability, which is also very fun to use. This is a single ability on a single healer, and it's a lot more tactical and complex than "can I fit in a spot to do a single GCD" or "two GCDs" that need to be positional on an extreme minority of fights, likely in situations you shouldn't be in to begin with.
FFXIV must first build the framework to allow for clever use of utility and abilities more often, which is what I'm hoping is the combat changeup they've been talking about with Dawntrail, and then after that, they must build up a repertoire of more unique and interesting abilities that are fun to use and aren't just pressing a button, or standing in one spot relative to an enemy to press a button, which is what I'm hoping the "unique" class identity stuff in 8.0 is going to be. They have an excellent opportunity to build a far more interesting game than you status quo kids are apparently satisfied with.
Devs have wasted a decade practically ignoring giving Summoner more summons. At least with that job, I have next to zero confidence they'll ever make it into a true Summoner. It'll more than likely remain Bahamut Mage for another decade. 😢
Wait. Players are attracted to jobs that have positionals because they have positionals? Is that for real? Or did I misunderstand.
I am. People play stuff for different reasons. I like to use my brain. lol
Yeah some people actually don't like autoplay and want to be engaged with the game
@@TheOneGreat totally: people play for different reasons, but they actually all use their brains, even if the reasons they play don’t include enjoying positionals. Appreciate the input though.
@@GoatOfWar let’s explore that. Would you say that healers and ranged players play the game on “autoplay” and are not engaged with the game because their abilities don’t include positionals?
@@benmorrow1701 You're narrowing it down to just positionals. I guess i'm looking at the broader picture. Over the span of 3 expansions, the direction of the game has consistently been simplification. Summoner going from the hardest job in the game to the easiest, Sam losing kaiten, various dps and tanks losing positionals and gapclosers.. Healers losing dps buttons, tanks becoming immortal.. The list just goes on and on.
So yeah, i think the oversimplification of the game is in dire need of some pushback. When i look at some of the jobs in Dawntrail and compare them to what they were in Hw/Sb they might as well be autoplay.
Summoner needs the most work. It's my favourite job and theme wise it's the best fitting job with the most lore and is the oldest job in FFXIV. It's just so utterly boring there's no reason to play it if you are after having fun.
The problem with FFXIV job design is that they do feel unique while you're leveling up. At some point, after X expansions, your jobs gets given passives that "ease up" your need to deal with the job's mechanics. A couple more stacks for that job mechanic, a longer timer for that buff, etc... So in the end, you have so many things that help you not have to deal with your job mechanics, that it's possible to create a rock solid rotation where you don't even feel like you have a job mechanic. You just do the buttons in order and repeat, like every other job. If you follow the order, you don't need to track anything and everything will line up perfectly. With exceptions, of course.
All MMO get this eventually. Resetting the level cap to 50 and hard capping skills at 20 per job will cure it. But it wont happen as Yohsi P is beholden to the advice of his few close associates who are hardcore raiders with zero ping and an unrealistic view of the player experience. And if you did not know that when he says 'players want' he means them, not us, then you do now. Peace.
The way current job design is being handled is the single biggest mark against FFXIV for me at the moment, that isn't how little Housing we have. I need my jobs to actually stimulate my brain. If a dungeon is going well as a tank or healer I am just hitting the same few buttons over and over with no variation, with no depth, no randomness and no real management. Even when doing normal raids or trials, there's so little to actually make the fight give me any enjoyment. Once I know how a fight works, it's just execution, and therefore it's once again back to spamming my filler spell or 1/2/3. I don't know what form it should take, as I'm not a game designer or a dev with knowledge or experience of game balance, but there's a reason even with all of it's flaws I still play WoW. It's combat is just superior in terms of actually stimulating gameplay with skill expression, variation, and variety between it's classes and specializations. Making the game easier and more accessible for casual players should and HAS come in making the content attached to the MSQ easier like story dungeons and trials. They went overboard with what they've done with Jobs.
if the jobs become unique like in the past ppl will start to run the optimal comps and the gatekeeping beings. poor yoshi-p, not an easy task at all, i want to see what he will pull off
You already have that happening with groups and always have. They used to balance around that by making you want to bring as much variety of classes because their skills and abilities came together to buff the entire raid/group. Bringing class identity back is what makes classes feel unique and special and that has been slowly being drained away.
they need to do something outside dps check , dps is the only problem right now. everytime job balance has problem. its only dps difference. how hard or how many buttons rotation never matter.
Already happens, you can't design out "Elitism" so stop trying. A lot of the jobs are kinda the same and it's getting boring to play...
Yes. That's totally not why SAM without a DNC in group is unoptimal, INTENTIONALLY by square enix
Nobody is going to be gatekept if jobs become unique again. An example of issues we had were things like not having piercing debuff from a DRG, which made Phys ranged feel awful to play. Those are the things the game needed to take away and it should have stopped there.
I mean yoshi p basically said dawntrail is in a way a new 10 year plan. Basically a reboot from arr. Im pretty excited to see whats in store
😡Hearing this as a SMN player….YOU HAD ONE ☝🏿 JOB MAN!! Just ONE ☝🏿
I’ll believe it when I see it. We are now on the third irritation of ShB job design.
Iteration*
@@dontgranme No, no, let him cook.
I dont get the issue with 2 min meta lol what else should we do lmao stand there such a weird complaint
Its not that annoying if you don't play every single job. If you only play a few jobs theres enough difference in play mechanics.
jobs can be distinct and rewarding if they actually have a playstyle based on the job description or actual mechanics. In melee, only ninja has a unique job mechanic, in range phy dps its bard, for range magic dps its BLM, for healers, THEY ALL PLAY THE SAME, for tanks THEY ALL PLAY THE SAME THEY'RE ALL WARRIORS WILL FELL CLEAVE WINDOWS.
A good example of job mechanic is DRK's offense stance back heavensward. U ACTUALLY FEEL LIKE PLAYING A DARKNIGHT FROM THE FINAL FANTASY FRANCHISE. Job identity is not hard, they have a ton of reference from older games, the problem is integrating it with the raids, and i understand that. BUT PLEASE SQUENIX, STOP MAKING EVERY JOB A SKIN OF THE ROLE THEY ARE IN.
Boss fight design has gotta be a nightmare for them. Like I miss old trials designs to a point. Nothing says hype like how Shiva entered phase 2 where everyone is frozen and the music shifts after she steps on the ice and snaps her fingers, but at the same time.... man that down time and completely ruining your rotation really really really sucks lmao.
If no big job changes until 8.0, then some people will have rolled with basically the same rotation for 6+ years. I feel like they just don't have an answer yet so they're playing for time. This "people will get confused" thing doesn't sound real to me. People aren't toddlers, if the game becomes fresher and less stale both in battle content and job diversity at the same time, they'll probably learn to deal with that terrible fate.
I just don’t believe him. He’s been kicking this can since 5.0. The exact same complaints I had back then are the same complaints I have now almost 5 years later. They don’t care. If they did they wouldn’t be waiting until 8.0. The job design team is totally different from the battle content team.
They can listen all day but they won’t make any changes. FFXIV is the kind of game that refuses to grow and innovate. There’s zero chance they’ll change anything.
The fact he thinks Eureka is the first field operation when really it was Diadem that was a complete mess is wild. He and his team have been doing the same thing over and over and can’t get off the rails at this point. Sad.
Mechanics are fine but there is just a lot of job bloat. I'd rather fewer distinct actions and more complex boss mechanics - but that also requires being more liberal with thier "packages."
So I won’t be playing dawntrail. Got it.
I think as time goes on the dev team should become more comfortable with power differences between jobs. If eventually we have something like 30+ different options I think most players would have backup jobs and it wouldn't be too bad to have some jobs just be a clear better choice or combo for certain encounters. Give the players more horizontal flexibility. Bring back piercing damage and stuff like that.
Absolutely, and invest in more diverse endgame content!
I think the FFXIV community, at least the vocal minority, are very quick to defend button bloat. Other MMOs operate with much fewer buttons and can still be difficult and the classes can still feel unique. In FFXIV they can make fights with more complex mechanics in order to maintain difficulty, rather than have you play piano on your keyboard. I wouldn't even be averse to bringing back more positionals if they reduce the number of buttons.
The PVP mode manages much more distinct jobs at 7 buttons per.
I've been yapping on for at least 2 years that I could reduce every single PvE job to 12 buttons without deleting a single thing.
There's no reason they cannot do a better than silly old me.
Don't forget everyone. The dev team can't hear your thoughts. Speaking up in official forums with legitimate issues is the best way to tell them as a collective, "we have something to say."
Hmmm eureka wasn’t 1st “field operation” content … old diadem was
Pretty sure they are referring to the systems in which the Gameplay was different. Diadem was just exploratory stuff. Eureka and Bozja had their own game and leveling systems
Old diadem was just... Another zone, that dropped pink gear. There wasn't any mechanic to make it special
I just find that the community tends to give nonsensical feedback. Like for example, people gripe about MNKs not having ranged attacks, and now they are getting a couple of new ones. This doesn't make sense from both the game play and stylistic perspectives, because the number of times that you can't reach melee range of a target is small, and even for those times being able to do a couple of ranged attacks means jack for overall DPS. And for stylistic purposes there are better and more imaginative ways to maintain the monk job identity. For example, the MNK could have an ability that applies Pressure Point on a target as they retreat, which then stores up damage the longer that you do not damage the target, and activates the moment they return to hit the target. And this is a concept that already exists in PVP!
Monk already has ranged attack: pumping up chakra like a maniac
While I agree with you for the most part I think people tend to be missing out on the other form of martial arts fantasy. I.e. goku-esque ki warriors. While mainly focused around punches and kicks it is still cool to occasionally throw a fireball from time to time. I remember people were excited when Monk had a kameamea type attack and it didn't mess with the identity. From what we've seen from media tour stuff that projectile is only gonna be like every 60 seconds which I do not think will disturb the job identity at all. Hell, the job is already getting reworked AGAIN so who knows what the gameplay will truly be
You should see NIN players, they're literally sobbing over the fact that Huton is getting removed despite it being the most mushmouth and inconvenient part of the job, in exchange for an interesting mechanic. Also the new MNK rotation is almost the exact same as it is now, just minus the awkward timing of Twin Snakes and Demolish, which made the devs' current vision of the job clunky and overall nasty to use.
I used this exact example in my comment, just give MNK have better melee options than the other jobs, so that they're less punished for being away from the boss (which they've already done before with old TK and Anatman, and SSS and Chakra). Though personally I think it'd be pretty cool to have a ranged PB spender that you can build by whiffing the AoE weaponskills.
I think SE just doesn't know how to handle feedback. Opinions for and against homogenization and simplification have always been pretty 50/50, yet they took one side to the extreme. Just look at the how the Kaiten thing went down, like, 80% of SAM players hated it, just who were they listening to when they made that change?
@@tenjiechin I think that the weird timings on MNK was what made it fun, like you had to pay attention to your timers to not mess up other part of your rotations.
For example: if you damage buff was about to expire and you are about to enter a burst phase you would want to make sure you had it refreshed before your burst, the same way you would also want to have a low timer on your dot before entering you burst.
Or making sure you didn't have to refresh anything during one of your PB's so you could use a lot crited bootshines.
Those "clunky" (i think a better way to call it is "complicated") parts of the job was what made it feel so rewarding once you got it right.
Which is a good thing that I've been excited for. They're clearly trying to pursue job identity again so that's a good thing
I wonder how many people are willing to wait 3 years for 8.0 though. Healers are already putting up a big stink on the Lodestone forums over the absurd tank sustain powercreep ruining normal content for them. (I don't blame them tbh if I was a healer main I would give my money to Blizzard instead.)
And Summoner getting another Bahamut rather than any of the summons they've been asking for for a decade.
Im enjoying eureka more than bozjan, and until now there is still ppl playing eureka compare with bozjan
I've always thougt the homogenization has gonna on for too long. Sure it makes things balanced. But for me its ok for things to be unbalanced as long as things arent so similar(jobs in this case). I actually miss the old warrior with its high HP for example. It needed to be improved, not removed!
Yeah, but they traded the high hp for extreme self-healing. One identity for another. That's fine, at least in my book.
@ridleyroid9060 OK, but how does bringing back their obnoxiously high health pool fix anything. Like I get it from the aspect of it making the class feel more unique to play since it was the only tank that had that, but is there nothing in your mind that makes it stick out now? Near as I can tell, even in DT, it'll still be king of self-healing compared to the other tanks. Maybe the visual effects aren't as big a draw for you, but it certainly looks different than saying GNB or PLD (I don't play DRK, don't like it).
I guess I just don't understand the need for every job to have a 100% different mechanic, though they also kinda feel like they do to me already.
@@stormkeeper1741 flip around the question. If you are fighting a gnb monster and war monster would they be different in any way? Your point in high hp is right as well. Wouldn't feel different than higher defense without % healing in the mix. Can do that with several jobs to check paint job vs the differences in what that class is. It seems to show up more that way, probably why pvp job identity gets praised.
"how dare jobs be similar, how dare our DPS output be based on where the tank is facing, how dare casual content be lacking in challenge for me a person who plays it every day?
I find it odd that this post is about the jobs, and homogeneity, they want to fix it, but decide the fix the battle encounters, which I thought were just fine? I get how the two are intertwined and tweaking them simultaneously would be a problem. But if the battles are basically OK except for the job stuff, why not fix the job stuff first?
Literally seconds later in the video there's details on this :)
It's strategic PR talk. They know people don't like the braindead gameplay, so they divert your attention away to another subject. It's the oldest trick in the book.
Truth is, braindead gameplay means more new players, new players means more money.
I just want a Chemist job!
I just want a FFT remaster like ogre got =(
There are rumours that CBU3 is working on two games. There are indications that one might be a FFT remake.
@@Seedmember hopefully soo , at this point im taking remaster,prequel ,sequel anythingquel
Give me a Plague Doctor with dots and concoctions
I read somewhere, but can't remember where at this point, Sage was initially their idea of "Chemist" for XIV, but they didn't want players to confuse it with Alchemist, so they figured the easiest way was to rename the job. Sage wasn't a healer in other games and used Black and White magic, but the game already had something like that in Red Mage. Personally, I always wanted Time Mage, but they basically mixed it into Astrologian for XIV, so I don't mind it not being directly called Time Mage, for all intents and purposes my AST is a Time Mage. lol
Positional. I dont care about positional. Im busy pressing buttons and watching boss mechanics.
Eureka and bozja I like both but I prefer eureka’s take because I felt like I needed to talk with others more to work together spawning NMs and even if I didn’t wanna farm NMs I could go do side stuff like bunnies to get rare mounts to sell. My biggest complaints about Bozja critical engagements were a bit too tedious to do with others and the big raid style content is tedious to do to get through when next to no one does it makes me wish they were just alliance raids at least you’d have duty finder
I don't really believe Yoshi-P. I'm sure he means what he's saying, but this has been a trend since Stormblood, that everything in the game has been made simple and easy and uniform, and no amount of complaint has changed that trend. Even in Dawntrail, the trend has continued.
Good vid Quazii, believe you are on point, I am almost certain they are indeed the vocal minority and their view is skewed because some spend more time playing the game weekly than people do work (40+ hours). Most people when they come from work, if they play 2-3 hours that same day it is a win for them. Mastery of the game among other things changes drastically if they played 5+ hours a day and if they care for high end or not. It's important to listen to the raiders and content creators but they are the minority.
When I started the game, I was so bad at it I actually thought some of the later ARR content was already starting to become challenging with Black Mage and I was having fun. Now I could run that content blindfolded and fall asleep (obvious exageration to make a point)... how can I possibly have good insight on what the casual and new players enjoy, and that's what people need to take into account for when they critique job design and difficulty, the louder voices are neither casual or new, the silent majority is like most games no doubt casual oriented and they pay most of the bills.
Also, difficulty does not mean necessarily the number of buttons you have to press.. that may help give job identity but external factors, like mechanics, should be the core of the game's difficulty, not learning how to play piano on the keyboard. At least, in my opinion. :) (Granted, that's a balancing act the dev needs to take into account, because some people do like more buttons)
I'd rather the game be a bit less balanced but have more unique feeling jobs. I enjoy hard content, but things like lining up buffs for burst windows and stuff like that just doesn't interest me in the slightest. I'd rather them lean more heavily on how jobs FEEL and have much less focus on raid buffs. In fact, if they completely removed raid buffs from the game I wouldn't bat an eye, I'd probably cheer.