Drum Triggers are CHEATING?
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- Опубліковано 29 лис 2023
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Transcript - Розваги
It's definitely cheating. Just like guitar pickups are cheating. And just like microphones are cheating. I've cheated in music my whole life, and I've never once felt bad about it. Music is more fun when you cheat.
w
I don't think it's cheating, but it's definitely officially a different instrument haha
Dangerously based take
This a fresh take I haven't heard before.
Opppss ... u are right bro.. music composer production including on this criminal😂
The only issue I have with drum triggers, or electric drums in general, is someone not learning how to tune their instrument.
why is that an issue to you? why do you care? logical take, but just really weird to post.
@@psychwardsandcymbals have you never played on a friends drumset or guitar and it sounds like ass cus it’s not tuned? I sing like ass but I can auto tune so why do I need to learn? I envy you never having experienced the horrors that 💯 do exist.
@@mybrotherjames8579 ...why would i care how other peoples drums are tuned?
It’s not that hard to tune a drum.
@Pericles777 true but you can't
Metal Drummer here - The answer is 'Yes and No' - You've done a pretty good job of outlining the 'No' part - people use Triggers for practical reasons that above about 210-220 BPM there's too much Air moving in the Drum Head to get a nice sound, so Triggering becomes a necessity.
Add in the realities of Touring where a Drummer might not be able to get the type of Kit they are accustomed to or the right Head/Shell combination - so Triggering again allows for a consistency in performance - this is a good thing.
However - there is a 'Yes' section - which is when people use Triggers to cover up deficiencies. Now, to be clear - I'm not a great drummer and if anyone was to look at my playing - they would spot some of these issues in my own playing:
- Using a Trigger to cover up inconsistent Stick/Beater velocities. Having a good solid 'Boom!' for each Bass drum hit or a having a Snare that cracks like lightning... but your hits are all different strengths *is* a form of Cheating - I'm not talking about Ghost Notes - I'm talking about poor technique and being unable to achieve a consistent sound.
- Using a Trigger to play at fast speeds by tapping. Consider a Snare roll at say 260 BPM - that's a fast as hell roll. There are drummers who can play that, cleanly, acoustically and it sounds good. Then there are people who are using a borderline buzz-roll technique to play at those speeds and then have the Trigger make it sound like a machine-gun firing, is IMO a form of Cheating.
In short - if you are using a Trigger to cover up shortcomings in your playing, that's a 'form' of cheating - you should work on fixing your technique - it will make you a better drummer - and there are plenty of Extreme Metal drummers who play at ridiculous speeds who have consistent stick velocity and don't tap.
But if you are using a Trigger solely for practical reasons - that's fine.
My favorite comment
I am an electronic musician if anything, so I think it's really neat when traditional and electronic instrumentation come together, from the humble electric guitar, to the fully featured e-kit. It's never "cheating" to use something that's fun, at least, when you're not competing. and if someone's competing with people who aren't competing with them, I think that's where it becomes a problem, because bruising somebody's ego is usually more about that somebody than the bruiser
Lol, putting 66samus in the thumbnail as clickbait...
*is that cheating?*
How is it clickbait when he not only uses triggers but reviews and give tutorials on them?
yes
Okay maybe a little bit hope it doesn’t come off bad
bro the loose snare head is making me die
yeah i was wondering whats up with this. either just way smarter on sound then me. or just not knowing a drum kit?
It's preference but I like a tight snare, depends on which genre too@@sotahullu1
is your snare head attached? looked like the tension rods were very loose
The other rods cheated on him, so he's leaving. Life is so much better without all the tension.
@@LifeOnHoth BRO 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Keep in mind as well that triggers can be used for more than just triggering samples - in the studio or live, they can be used to trigger a noise gate. Especially useful if the drums have a lot of resonance and rattle in them.
Tighten those snare rods my goddddd
Okay I will lmao
WAS GUNNA SAY SAME HOLY SHIT
You summed up the purpose of triggers very well with the guitar pedal board comparison.
whats with the crazy loose lugs on your snare?
I like the sound >_
Forget your question
The bouncy tension rods on your snare make nervous LOL
Alright man, props to the GIR plushie in the back.
Every forward movement in music has been met by criticism, and it's all people who are stuck on how the old way is the only way to do things. Progress is necessary to stave off stagnation. Embrace change, get ahead of the curve, and ride the wave.
FIRST COMMENT TO NOTICE
The only thing that irks me in regard to bass drum triggers are when drummers are playing at a speed so fast that the can't get possibly play without them. you're not playing drums if your beater is 2mm from the head and you're micro-twitching your ankles to activate the triggers. know what i mean?
Crazy. After all these years this argument has not been resolved.
only people who complain about triggers are people who've never used them... they aren't magic and the technique still needs to be there
Yep. People think it makes things way easier because you can erase dynamics, but they also make your timing issues stand way out in ways that get hidden in the slop of an acoustic drum. Your timing has to be much more precise and you can't have sloppy ghost notes.
My consideration for if something is cheating is if a person can’t actually play something and they’re using a sample or trigger to overcompensate, edit in things they can’t play, or speeding up a video to look like they’re going faster. If people want to use samples, triggers, crazy guitar pedal/amp settings to get cool sounds, but can still play the instrument before changing its sound, I’m totally fine with that.
The problem is that triggers require more accuracy than not. If you make even the slightest mistake, it is WAY more noticeable with triggers than not, so there’s arguments for both sides. Personally, I don’t think it’s cheating necessarily, but takes more control to not twitch or accidentally make a wrong hit. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion tho
The only people I've heard arguing strongly against triggers are people who have no idea what they actually do (and don't do). There are so many myths, it's a constant facepalm. Once you reach a certain tempo you hit the acoustic limitations of the drum. I don't normally use triggers, but I once did a section acoustically with 16ths @ 240 BPM. It sounded okay in isolation, but when I mixed the drums in with the rest of the instruments, it just sounded like a truck driving past -- one long note. I had to re-record the section with triggers just to make it audible in the rest of the track.
Now imagine that you're a touring drummer, jumping between different rooms and different mixers night after night. If your band is reliant on fancy footwork, and you only ever use acoustic drums on principle, then that stuff is just going to get lost in the mix and the guitarist isn't going to be able to lock in with your feet.
Depends on what they are being used for. I feel like they add to the arsenal of creative things you can do with drums, and are in many ways beneficial for live performances or studio application. The issue comes when triggers are used as an excuse for not improving or becoming more accurate/consistent. That's just imo but I think it is important to be able to perform at a high level with the least equipment
Some drums sound like marching snare drums with that horrible "click click" sound
That mouse click sound on bass drums ruins it for me
Using new tools is not cheating. Every artform over time develops new tools and techniques to make for previously unknown products and efficiencies. Would you criticize a composer for writing a piece that utilizes additional pianos? Would you criticize a sculptor for using power tools (or hundreds of years ago, assistants) to do the rough work on a piece of sculpture? Should guitarists only play acoustic? I suppose painters should have to go back to charcoal and dry pigments. Sorry musicians, it's time to go back to recording on phonographs.
Personally, I want more giggity.
The tuning lugs on that snare 0:41 are a bit loosy goosy.
Why use triggers. Just use a pedal that playes a prerecorded doublebass part when pressed.
I do not think its cheating. Now if its some competition or somthing and its not standard on every single kit there I can understand how it can be considered foul play but in just basic normal drumming, I think that its okay. If anything, I encourage it. It helps drummers who other than setting a mic up, who have no experince in dealing with either MIDI or whatever, have an oppurtunity do dabble in that without having to spend a thousand dollars to by and E-Kit that feels like what they are used to. I think its cool but thats my opinion.
Also dude tighten your tension rods on your snare!
pleease crank up that snare . the way the screw is moving around when you hit it is so sad... T-T
I think using them on bass drums is fine if your trying to hit a certain speed. But toms and snares drums don't need triggers it makes them sound awful in my opinion.
The giggity got me 😂😂😂 I gotta do that to my kit!
I play drums and have no idea what triggers are. I used to be in bands ( vocalist) and heard my drummer n otjer bands drummers talkin about them but i never got the explination. Thank you for the explination. After watching this Id say its cheating when it comes to triggers making your beaters double in speed. No if youre just using them to get a distinct sound of double bass as far as a production and sound thats fine. I personally want my double bass to be just my legs and feet producing the speed. Thats why i am constantly practicing different techniques and foot placement to get faster.
It’s really a question of fun vs authenticity
It's really a question of being reliably audible from gig to gig.
We just gonna ignore your snare tone? Those lugs are going crazy at 0:42 lol
0:45 his lugs on his snare are moving haha
Ahh yes. The ultimate debate. As a drummer north of 20 years that enjoys the groovy / djent thing, I don't think there is an appropriate placement for triggers. For deathcore / technical stuff sure. However, for drums, I like the sentiment that they remain the fully acoustic aspect of a live performance. Just one dude's opinion :)
I respect it!
No triggers in djent??
@@johnknight9150 I guess it depends! I guess just not as common place for, say, deathcore / tech stuff? What do you think?
@@pahriiaMeshuggah use triggers. I'd say triggers are probably more likely to be used than not.
I have the opposite opinion.
I prefer acoustic drums for recording. I want to hear the personality of the drummer, not the same triggered drum sounds everyone else is using.
For live situations, triggers. For no other reason than consistency of sound.
this subject gets me triggered
For me, my issue is that it kinda kills the real sound of the drums
I see no point of using it when i can just go out and buy myself an electronic kit instead of buying triggers. This is my opinion on drum trigger, I'm not trying to convince anyone to stop using it
Triggers, whatever. The tension rods on that snare, tho.... XD
bro at 0:40, look at the lugs, tune it up my boi
Very true! Seeing it more over the last 5 years but it's not a bad thing I don't think. Good quick vid!
Ok theres two ways to see this "triggers dilema". Theres the point of view of an aspiring musician and also the point of view of Band management and business practices. Aspiring musicians can see this as an opportunity to fool an audience into thinking they are really good at what they do , when they arent and just rely on technology to sound good. Nothing bad with that cuz you trying to impress , i get it. But the problem with that is theres musicians and singers outthere without a label , no effort on practicing and stuff like that ..trying to sell themselves as the best at what they do. How is that an issue ? well , Milli Vanilli its agreat example of that. From the business perspective view, if the band its already signed and famous its really a weight of primary the band in so many ways also the sound team. Even tho its a long process to get everything sounding good but the time its way less. Something that needs to be point out too , studio albums talking about the instrumentation and sounds has became so over processed compared to albums from lets say ..a decade ago where drums were more organic and natural sounding , samples were still been used but not as extreme like now ..same goes for auto tune. We even have artists now using real time auto tune and thats not because some of them cant sing but also theior albums has been extremely auto tuned to perfection that their audience has became sooooo demanding on quality to the point if ppl doesnt get the same excat sound from the album on live performance …then they suck. So in other words they just gotta do it that way so ppl feel non money was wasted on the show.
If what comes out of the speaker is decent, I couldn't care less on how the sound was produced to be honest.
I wouldn’t say it’s cheating but I prefer natural drums. My opinion.
Great vid and liked your channel bro... subs right now
About the subject, I think cheat in music exist, called "faking it" as you say. Because if you are not a DJ-Sampler and you fake something, you are a cheater. So if you want to do a soung unhumanly possible to reach, like the drum kicker sounds a drone's machine gun, be honest and do it in a sampler, not faking this like you are the android with no leg but triggers.
Thanks 🤘🏾
thanks speed!
Triggers are digitise the drum sound.....Not quantize.......Just digitise....gege?
Still have to play it regardless of sample velocity
They’re convenient but boring, except kick triggers… when they’re needed
Triggers are cool. If you don't like it, don't be demeaning. Some use it, some don't. Just as us guitarists, some use a lot of effects, some don't. Like you said: It's music. It opens up for some added creativity for the drummer. "More power to ya!", I say.
The answer is in the question.
cheating in what ? I like JD beck and i like KJ sawka ,one have a hybrid setup for dnb and the otherone play jazz style. both create music, where is the problem ?
Triggers make sloppy play way more obvious so no, not even close to cheating. If anything it’s the opposite
If you're not mixing-in alongside acoustic mic'ing, just use an electric kit. Why carry around an entire set of drums on tour?
Drum Triggers aren't cheating. That's like saying E kits are cheating because you can do the same thing. You can also actually do the same thing with microphones. I run Shure microphones on my snare and with my DAW, I made my snare sound like Lars' St. Anger Snare just for the LOLs.
Bro, let's talk about how loose your lugs are.
If I hit five home runs with an aluminum bat, is it cheating?
1:16 WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT!?!?!?;
ONE KICK TWO STROKES???
SO U CAN PLAY WITHOUT LEG.
ADD SOME TRIGS AND THATS.
SO ITS SUCKS WHEN U CANTS PLAY DOUBLE STROKE ON BASS DRUM.
Cheating sound but not cheating stroke. Not cheating in my opinion. That dualist pedal however is a perfect example and a poor gimmick at that.
And El Estepario does not need that pedal. He crushes it without
Oh my gawd Johnny 🥵
"The only way to cheat is by pretending you made music" Haha, right on! That's everyone on the Presonus Sphere Community. They EDIT together some of the pre-recorded music from one the multitude of Presonus chord packs, and call it their music. The funny part is when they try to add vocals or guitar and then you get to see just how well they can really record and mix. It never fits!😂 There are a huge amount of fake gate keepers on that forum.
I don't think it's cheating, and I don't have anything against electronic music, or samples. Quite the contrary. I just think it's somewhat... pointless? When you reach such crazy speed that you *need* a trigger to even have the audience distinguish what you're doing, aren't you better off using a drum track, and use the kick together with the fast drum track to do something cool? That's like playing a guitar solo so quickly you just don't understand what's going on unless you superimpose a melody over it. It's cool if people have fun playing crazy fast using triggers, I just think that it's seems lke people are not doing it for the music but because they can, that's all.
eh, not 'getting' something hardly makes it pointless
@@mastertonberry9224 fair, which is why I have nothing against it in principle. It's music and everyone can do whatever they feel like doing. I just have the feeling that it doesn't come from artistic expression but from competition: showing everybody else I can hit notes very fast.
Well, I think it's like pizza with pineapple, you may like it, you may not like it, but in the end it is a choice of each person and what they are capable of achieving with the TOOLS they have.
I see cheating in music as something dependent on what your goal is. If you want to make music with a certain sound, so you use triggers, it's not cheating; if you are not skilled enough to play an instrument, but you still want to make good music and put it out there, so you use triggers and quantization, it's not cheating. However, if you use triggers and quantization and say that's your own ability and then try to replicate on a live session terribly unsuccessful, that is cheating, and deceiving your audience.
The only cheating in music is autotune and full playbacks
drum triggers are not cheating, if anything you can hear the mistakes you make more clearly. so to say it's cheating is not entirely correct. Sure, they make the volume and dynamics of each hit sound the same, but in a genre of music that requires kicks faster than 230 bpm (16ths) there is little you can do to make the kick drums heard.
The only drummer that could play with enough power and energy at 230 to have an audible kick drum is dave lombardo...that's it. Everything else needs to be triggers.
Good video, keep going, your quality will improve automatically with more vids.
Its obviously cheating, unlike pressing the demo button on a casio keyboard 😏
I named my kit Karen, because it's always triggered.
Yes that pedal is cheating! Common sense my opinion!
Saying Triggers are cheating is similar to saying ergonomic guitar picks are cheating. They're easier to use, you don't have to pick as hard, and they're louder too. Nobody calls it cheating because that would be stupid
Are we really still have this debate? Music isn't sport, you can't 'cheat'.
Edit: unless you plagiarise, because stealing IS cheating
Using triggers doesn't bother me. Calling it cheating is dumb. Do what you can to get a consistent performance. The only thing that is tiresome to my ears is when there are no dynamics in the volume or velocity of the samples. It might be impressive as hell to watch someone blast and play crazy fills and lightning fast double bass at 666 bpm but if it sounds like it was 100% programmed it takes a lot away for me. Everyone is different of course but it really ruins a lot of music for me.
A lot of drum tracks were resampled even back in the day, like today. Is that cheating? People dont seem to understand what happens in the producing, mixing and mastering.
Hell even guitars and basses are resampled in mixes to get a different sound, is that cheating?
I find the whole question to be moot and non-creative, el estepario siberiano said it best "If people would spend more time practicing instead of hating, the world would be a better place"
"But it aint".
Cheating? Pfft. Not at all. If it is so, goodbye to the creativity in music. You're right - this is music. Don't ever forget that.
Triggers aren't cheating. Doing buzz stroke rolls with your toes and claiming it's your feet by cranking a triggered kick drum head up to Kevlar marching snare tension....is cheating.
It's only cheating if you pretend you're not using it.
Sensitive matter to triggered posers. Of course it's cheating, since virtually all of modern metal drummers completely destroy the velocity sensitivity using them, hence they all sound like drum machines, which is only fine if you're Fear Factory. A really good drummer doesn't need triggers, as he/she makes the drums sound good without them. And no, the speed argument is fucking lame, it is dependent on good sound engineering in those cases.
people just need to shut up and let people make music, doesn't matter how they do it, as long as it isn't at anyone's expense and sounds good, then idc imma just listen to it
I think it's only cheating if you decide to be "competitive" about it. Like, if you uploaded yourself doing a "fastest bpm ever!!" type thing using triggers as aid then yeah, it might raise some eyebrows. But if it helps to shape your musical chops and bring life to the sounds in your head, then it's really no different from a thing like autotune.
In the end, they're tools and there's a right way to use them 🤷
It's cheating if you're a dick and act like a great drummer if you like use triggers or the fake pedals kinda imo. Idc if you use a drum machine as long as you don't make like a skill claim based around it. A better analogy than pedals would be like something that automatically does meshuggah bleed patterns every time you touch the string once btw. I feel like people don't care if you just tweak the sound with triggers
Edit: I grew up when people cared lol
Not cheating in the slightest. In fact, its a humbling experience to discover what a sloppy mess of a drummer you are when using the technology.
I have been playing extreme metal for 34 years, but have been using triggers for only the last 10 years.
If your stroke is off by a macrosecond, everyone knows it. Things I never thought about such as burying the beater with my left leg (because I am right dominant) will fire these miserable little units into a coniption.
Ever been to a real studio? Guess what the engineer will probably using. Instead of spending the money to record quality music, you are going to shell out more for the poor bastard engineer fixing your mistakes.
My advice to anyone who thinks we are cheating is to buy a cheap electric kick pad as well as a cheap drum module like a Roland TM2. Hook your pedal to it and use it as a practice pad. Trust me when ai say you will be shocked at how crappy your technique is.
Since we are on the subject, since when this become a debate? Mike Portnoy uses triggers. Half of Danny Carey's drums are Mandala trigger pads. Neil Peart's drum kit was massive!!! He had countless triggers and it would have taken a 400 channel board to mic the kit.
Is anyone daring me to argue that any of these men dont have skill? Was Neil Peart cheating like some NES speedrunner on UA-cam?! Don't make me laugh.
just more crap to buy
From my experience, a big key for double-bass is to look at the distance the beater travels. Guys like George Kollias, Ken Bedene, Eugene, John Longstreth, etc. Yes, they’re using triggers, but they’re still hitting hard.
I think Dave Lombardo is the only thrashy-style drummer that doesn’t trigger his kick drums, but he also never plays faster than 214 bpm or so (not saying he can’t, he just doesn’t).
Charlie Benante has detailed how frustrating mic’ing up his bass drums would be, and that triggers made things much easier on him and his sound engineer.