Black Sabbath's Dehumanizer - The One Album That Was Made Without Tony Martin (Read pinned comment)
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2022
- A video I wanted to make in a different side, which is this time is like a documentary of an album's era through a later part of the discography from Black Sabbath. A few mistakes with the text editing after copying/pasting the interview lines from a few websites but I do hope you enjoy it nonetheless. lol Let me know if you want me to do more of this sort of thing in the comments!
#blacksabbath #ronniejamesdio #albums #heavymetal #tonymartin #tonyiommi #geezerbutler
I want to say thank you to those who have made excellent points on the touring parts. It was a mistake and didn't know it went like that than what I thought it was. Much love and Black Sabbath for life.
I think that Dehumanizer is a very good and overlooked album from Black Sabbath. I loved Heaven and Hell as well as Mob Rules and I think Dehumanizer is almost as good and Dio is my favorite singer Black Sabbath ever had.
I actually prefer Dehumanizer over Mob rules, even though Falling off the edge of the world is the best sabbath Dio song imo
As you know, Geezer saw a Dio show in Minneapolis and Dio’s return was something IRS records and Tony Iommi wanted, increased sales figures would have been a factor. I saw Black Sabbath with in ‘92 at the NEC. Check out Dio’s infamous ‘tour bus’ interview regarding the departure of Dio and directing his frustrations into the ‘Strange Highways’ album. Their’s no business like show business.. Loyalties are often forgotten. Despite that,working with Tony,Geezer and Vinny was where Ronnie was happiest.
Dehumanizer was my all time favorite Sabbath album, from 1992 until 2022, when I must confess, The Devil You Know by Heaven and Hell (Black Sabbath with the name change thanks to Sharon Osbourne) became my new favorite.
While I like and respect Tony Martin, (and I've seen him live on the Cross Purposes tour) I'm pretty sure Iommi was advised by his manager or producer to bring Dio back for an album. Tony Martin did handle it with great poise, class, and professionalism. But come on, the lineup with Iommi, Geezer, RJD, and Vinny Apice is a magical lineup. It has always been my favorite lineup.
@@LEEFORDJAGG I got to see 2 Dehumanizer shows in 92, and was able to be front row at one of them. It was truly LEGENDARY, larger than life, and I'll never forget it.
dehuminizer is such a good album. ronnie james dio is the best
Agreed. 100%
The real problem behind the Dehumanizer, and why Iommi sacked Martin is Tyr, and it's luckluster promotion. That's just one of the factors. Generally, Martin's albums weren't selling. After "The Eternal Idol" Warner dropped them, and they found a new "roof" under I.R.S., which wasn't nearly enough big of a label to satisfy Iommi's standards, and what he was doing in the 70's and the early 80's. By '87 when EI was released, everyone got tired of the lineup changes, which was a big deal at the time. People loved their bands and every member counted. Not to mention management problems, and Iommi's coke snoring. The whole momentum was just awful for Tony Martin to step into that situation. There's also implications that Sharon Osborne had her fingers in all of that turmoil. During the Martin period, there were some mystery calls that sometimes cancelled their shows, calling the promoters or someone at the venue. etc. All in all, I can write a whole essay about this subject, but the point is, in those times it just wasn't ment to be. Thankfully, those Martin albums gradually became something of a cult, legendary metal treasures, which are finally, and after so many years, getting the recognition they deserved in the first place. Anyone who's reading this comment, if you're interested in this topic, read/watch everything you can find, every interview, Iommi's book, Mick Wall's book, it's all there, just dig. Cheers everyone, and till those Martin remasters come out, keep rocking those albums and explore those magical, powerful, and crazy good songs.
Sharon had her hands in things ever since she got tied in with Ozzy. She worked for her father at the label. Even during the Born Again albums, she was making things difficult for the band. The track Digital Bitch is a slight at Sharon, and Devil and Daughter off the Martin album Headless Cross is also a reference to Sharon. Besides the fact that Warner wanted Dio on the album, Dio and Iommi had talked about a reunion. Geezer and Bill Ward had both made tour appearances with the TYR lineup. But since Bill was on again off again with his substance abuse problems, it made more sense for Geezer to come back. Cozy was in the band for the original recordings. He's on the demos. But after the falling out with Dio, he's gone, and he and Martin are doing Cozy Powell's Hammer tour, and playing Martin's originals. Funnily enough, Ray Gillen thought Sabbath was going nowhere when he came in during Seventh Star tour, and had he stuck around, anything after likely wouldn't ever see a re-release since all the Badlands stuff is on the shelf because of all those women he gave AIDS to.
hey don't forget what was happening at the time. Grunge was taking over, so it was a rough time for almost all of the old school Heavy Metal bands. And I've often thought about this: the Tony Martin era was good stuff, most of us watching this video agree I would believe. However, it was also very complex (part of why I love it), and unfortunately, that doesn't tend to have a broad appeal to the masses. Especially at a time when a far simpler type of rock (Grunge) was taking over. The Tony Martin Sabbath was a polar opposite to, say, Nirvana. The record labels wanted to go with what was hot. Great albums like Tyr and Headless Cross just weren't getting promoted. And then Cross Purposes came out, and was great (in my opinion) but again, very intricate and complex. And I always say, 'critics hate complex music'. That was the tour where I was able to meet Tony Iommi and get his autograph.
Back to Tony Martin though, what a great guy- he handled everything with great class and dignity. He's also highly underrated as a vocalist.
Sabbath released Dehumanizer on Reprise in the States as IRS didn’t have the financial backing. Dehumanizer sold better than the last four albums combined in the States but Grunge had hit
Right On.
Its honestly a shame that they couldn't have done what Alice In Chains did and allow Dio and Martin to sing in unison like Layne and Cantrell.
Dio had too much of an ego for that (I love ronnie btw #1 metal singer of all time)
@@thereagauze I agree. He did have an ego but with his voice who could really blame.
@@thereagauzeI love RJD as much as anyone here, but…. the #1 spot is a tie in my book: Dio and Halford.
\m/ \m/
It’s almost like well what if prince & Michael Jackson sang together nope because they wanted it done they’re way & to much ego & to much of both being a perfectionist same thing with dio & Martin I’m sure
Sabbath wasn't the supporting band for Ozzy in all of 1992, they were just invited for Ozzy's two farewell gigs in Costa Mesa to play as a guest band, and Dio refused it. And it was the end of the tour, there wasn't any more scheduled shows after that. The fact that they will play before Ozzy was known since the summer, and Dio did the rest of the tour, but he said a few times that he won't do the Ozzy shows. The band didn't believe it, but when the show came, they realized that he said the truth, and he won't do it. They tried to invite Tony Martin back for the shows, but Wendy Dio acted faster, and using her contacts, she denied Martin's working visa in the USA, so they had to find someone, who's already in the states, and he was Rob Halford. That's the story.
I appreciate the correction from what I said and that did sound really interesting so thanks for putting that information up.
Why would Wendy do that? She just hated the band?
@@andrejz8954 No, but he loved Ronnie. And from her point of view, the guys from Sabbath did hurt him, and of course she wanted a little bit of revenge. Iommi and Martin both said that Wendy were behind this thing.
I also read before that Dio's contract for the album and tour had expired the day before he refused to do the farewell show for Ozzy. I also read that Halford asked Ronnie if he had his blessing to step in on lead vocals, after being asked.
How was Wendy Dio able to block Tony Martin's visa? And why would she do that?
I love Tony Martin and the DIO albums
Ronnie James Dio is my personal heavy metal
Great video.I'm would have loved to hear Tony Martin doing the vocals on Dehumanizer. I am a big Tony Martin fan.
Right On.
he did, they're out there somewhere, probably in Iommi's vault lol I was hoping that when he re-released the Martin stuff we might hear some but then again Eternal Idol is also conspicuous by it's absence so who knows what'll happen in the future.
Nobody tops Dio,Tony Martin touching that album would have been a disaster!
The whole Dehumanizer era feels like a person going back to their ex, realising why it didn't work out, going back to the partner they just dumped and then going back to their ex once again, then having a fling with their first ex which led to the second ex breaking up with them again. Both Tony Martin and Dio were used at the time. Dio expressed a lot of bitterness after that tour. Tony Martin is a gentle soul and didn't want to stir the pot too much, as evidenced by his responses.
There's a funny moment in the San Jose show in 1994 where Tony Martin introduces himself in a rather passive-aggressive manner: "for those of you who have any doubts, or just plain don't know, I'm Tony Martin". He had every right to feel frustrated.
I love Dehumanizer and Dio, but I don't think the reunion happened at the right time. The Heaven and Hell band felt like a far more authentic reunion of those musicians.
Man, so much to unpack here…
1. Dehumanizer is great and part of many amazing albums that came out in 1992.
2. There are many parallels to how the Van Halen bros. treated Sammy Hagar and how the Sabbath bros. (Iommi & Butler) treated Ronnie. And even Tony Martin backs up the passive aggressiveness of dumping singers without actually talking to them.
3. I wonder why Ronnie went back to “Heaven and Hell” in the early 2000’s? Money?
Thanks for posting.
PS- I saw the DHZer show in ‘92 in CLE Ohio. #GREAT
They went with the Heaven and Hell name to distance themselves from the Black Sabbath name. That was kind of being reserved for Ozzy reunions and Ozzy had never really liked the idea of Iommi carrying on the Sabbath name without him. All through the 80's he was slagging Iommi and Sabbath basically calling it a bullshit band. In the end, the main reason Iommi ran back to Ozzy is $$$.
Nice! I saw Dehumanizer in Columbus and Dayton! You know, every time Iommi and Dio made music it was just pure magic. And The Devil You Know was no exception. The interview I saw with RJD during the tour for Devil You Know, it looked like they were able to finally put the past behind them, and were just out there having fun. Amazing stuff. Also some of Geezer's best work on some of those tracks. (Atom and Evil, Bible Black, Follow the Tears) Oh, and they did get to pack large venues once again, which was well deserved for such an iconic lineup of Heavy Metal giants. (Except I shouldn't refer to Iommi as a Heavy Metal giant. He's more like the Godfather of Heavy Metal. The founder.)
Interesting, I don't recall liking this album, I'm gonna have to listen to it again thanks !!
Some awesome tracks on there. Computer God, I, Time Machine to name a few.
@@ikill4klondikebars oh ya I listened to that and the devil you know and now I think they are solid !!! and some great Dio Sabbath gems to savor !!! I saw H n H 3 times on their tours !!!! Once I was feet from Dio !!!!
I totally agree with you,i love the album, I love dio and I think Iommi could think it better, I just wonder why it started to go harder with Dio, i guess it was because dio was changing a lot of stuff, I would love heard it with Tony Martin, there's a demo of computer god in youtube with Martin,and i like it more than the final track.
I’m glad that both Tony’s are on good terms now. And I’m excited for the Tony Martin era boxed set supposedly coming out in May this year.
That will be collected for my Sabbath collection and it's about time. lol
i think how the Dehumanizer lineup started was when Geezer came to one of Ronnie's shows in the 1990's and or late 80's expressing to him that he wanted to do sabbath again with that lineup. Honestly i can't blame Ronnie for being so pissed in the late 80's to early 90's since he was being thrown around like a ragdoll between bands that had him in them before and bands that just fucked him over entirely along with record labels. "My Eyes" from Lock Up The Wolves really showed Ronnie's nail in the coffin with the music industry since he was that upset.
Iommi and Dio were at a show together and after burying the hatchet over the Live Evil debacle, decided to do a reunion. If Ward wasn't dealing still with substance abuse problems, he's probably on the original demos instead of Cozy.
@@ikill4klondikebars true without a doubt since Ward did say he was struggling with alcohol abuse around the time of Mob Rules so I wouldn’t doubt he’d start taking drugs too like Iommi since it was huge in the 80’s
Good point about the lyrics in My Eyes. Kind of tells how he was feeling. And that was right before Dehumanizer, good catch.
I'm a Sab nut, so I can talk about this all day long. Keep the vids coming!!
Proud to be a Brummie being a fan of the greatest heavy metal band. Glad you liked the video.
A lot of the drum patterns on Dehumanizer were demoed by Cozy, but Vinny added his own touches later on. Appice wasn't the first choice to replace Cozy - Ronnie wanted ex-AC/DC drummer Simon Wright who was in Dio with him at the time, but Tony and Geezer vetoed this.
Dehumanizer is the first Sabbath album since the self-titled debut that has a cover on it - technically speaking, Master of Insanity is a cover - as it was originally recorded by the Geezer Butler Band and was brought over by Geezer. One of Cozy's drum tracks demoed but not used from the Dehumanizer sessions was eventually used on the track "Raising Hell" on Tony Martin's "Scream" album.
Wow, those are some awesome facts you decided to share and it does make this even more interesting.
Wow, I really didn't know about Master of Insanity. Very interesting!
Master of Insanity is not a cover, it was stolen!
@@husq48 from whom?
@@andrejz8954 One of the members of Geezer's band wrote it, never got the credit.
Tony Martin could definitely have done dehumanizer but as a kid watching head bangers ball on MTV watching the video of TV crimes seeing Dio come back seeing Ronnie James Dio come back was something that was very nostalgic was awesome
Great presentation. Had no idea how involved tony Martin was and disappointing about iommi’s lack of loyalty and transparency.
This album kicks ass
Definitely the best Dio Era album.
Dio is overall a better singer and believe it was a wise choice on Tony's part
I love dehumanizer for a few reasons one being the artwork and the second how heavy it is and I feel bad for tony Martin I think he was a great singer for the sabbath albums he made. However and this is just my theory that they got the mob rules line up back together as they thought it would be a better idea for whatever reason
Cross Purposes is my favourite of them all, so in my opinion Martin got his chance to shine through.
They had to fulfill the record contract
TRES Cool/Heavy
Vivian is not Cozy Powell… I love them both.. but I have to go with Cody Powell, no matter what he did
They should have stuck with T.M. all the way thru , He was a one in a million find of a singer, Eternal Idol didnt sell massively because it got no promo at all, yet in my opinion its easily one of Sabbaths top 3 albums of the 80s.
I don't know what brought this *ruthlessness* out in Tony Iommi, maybe it was there the whole time, but this has got to be the height of it. It's moving into Sharon Osbourne levels of ruthlessness. Maybe it was the state of the industry at the time. Tony Iommi treated Tony Martin like he was nobody. Yeah, Martin could act like kind of a nerd sometimes maybe, but that is incredibly minor in the face of Iommi's cruelty.
Tony Iommi always did stuff like this, read "Never Say Die!"
Ok, so Dehumanizer is my fav DioSab album. While Martin's style/delivery is in line with RJD's, would DH have been the same with Martin? I dunno.
I know it wouldn't have been as well received, because a large portion of the Sabbath fanbase simply wouldn't give the Martin era a shot. They could not deal with a 5th vocalist(which ultimately is their loss).
So simplu based on that, it would never have received the same level of notoriety.
Other than vox and melodies, I dunno if Dio contributed or helped shape the music at all. Imo there was a higher level of power and quality writing in DH, and I dunno if Dio gets any credit for that, or if it was simply Tony paired with Geezer and Vinnie again.
If the same music was created, it would have been interesting to see if people have that a fair shake with Martin. MAYBE it would have spearheaded a new level of interest in the Martin catalogue all together???
Really like this album, it was great to have the mob rules line up back to save the band from mediocrity they had been since seventh star.
Luv dehumanizer
Big fan from.. pakistan
Dehumanizer is the best album of black Sabbath. Tony Martin is a Phenomenal singer but Dio is God.
Great choice. I approve the profile picture as it's my favourite film lol
And just like that, with one simple sentence clarification is achieved. Nailed it.
@@TheStrongBoyz19Tony Martin didn't write the lyrics for the Dehumanizer album so that's the end of the story Ronnie James Dio did and the final album doesn't include any Tony Martin songs . Tony Martin did rejoin Sabbath for the Cross Purposes album and tour also the Forbidden album and tour . Rob Halford did 2 shows with Sabbath in Costa Mesa with Ozzy Osborne no more tours final shows .
The material that Martin wrote between the Dio disputes, was later used for Cross Purposes.
Some of it but not all of it
The book Iron Man describes the basis of the Dio reunion was drunk talk. Still it's an amazing record
I do have to get that book. I do recommend Geezer's Into The Void book.
@@TheStrongBoyz19 that's on my list!
I love every Sabbath Album except forbidden. The band is great no matter who is on vocals.
If tony decided Iommi, It could release double albums one album with tyr line up and another with mob ruler line up and I would support it.
Tony's main project is reworking Forbidden. He was planning to re-release all the Martin era stuff remastered, but of course, covid, and his health, and everything else has gotten in the way. Much like George RR Martin with his ASOIAF books, fans wonder if the Martin releases will ever happen before Iommi dies.
Tony Martin era is extremely underrated in my opinion. Albums like The Eternal Idol, Headless Cross, and TYR in my opinion are MASTERPIECES. Tony Iommi definitely treated Tony Martin like crap. It feels like Tony Ionmi didn't care who he hurt as long as he got what he wanted out of it. I still love his guitar playing and riffs big time.
So much fuss about so little. The final result is the only thing that matters. "Dehumanizer" is a tremendous album, and remains one more than 30 years later. The rest is just tittle-tattle. But since this is the place to indulge in it, let's do so. I'm glad Tony Martin didn't sing on "Dehumanizer"; and since he returned for two albums more later, he wasn't quite so offended. Iommi states his priorities clearly in his autobiography: a friend is a friend, but the band comes first; if a better guy wants to come back, the worse guy goes out and that's that. The proper thing is to tell personally somebody that he's fired, but then - what are managers for? No matter! The album remains tremendous. It wouldn't have been much better with Cozy. It would have been a great deal weaker with Tony Martin.
When Sabbath brought in the Village People guy, Glenn Hughes, it got a bit weird for me
Ray gillan or. Do you mean Ian gillan?
No, it's Ray Gillen after the Glenn Hughes era of Sabbath before Tony Martin came along.
Didn’t care for the album after having such high hopes for it . A bit too heavy for me 😳. Don’t think Tony Martin would have made a difference 🤔. As far as Tony Iommi being a bastard if there’s one thing I’ve noticed is he will do whatever it takes to keep Sabbath going just my opinion 🤷🏻♂️
Not true, it's well known that Martin featured on Demo recording sessions before Dio returned.
I think you have some of the story wrong, I know some knowledge on the topic. Ronnie was my godfather, and he told me a completely different story. Sabbath wanted Ronnie, Geezer & Dio were best friends. I agree with you about what Tony Iommi, did.
No way. Thanks for sharing and it's awesome to think you're a part of his family. You can address about it if you want to because we'd love to know.
@@TheStrongBoyz19all I can tell you it happened over a completely different situations. I wish I could put it in the open, but it's under legal contract. Yes I grew up in a big line of a musicians, my parents turned me on to the greatest people and music. My cousin was Jimmy Bain, and Ronald my godfather. I been playing guitar and bass since 10, gone to Berklee for two years. But my cousin and Ronnie got my foot in the door, so now I do private recording sessions. So I owe so many people in my life, but I know Jimmy & Ronnie are still helping me out
That is amazing to hear that. I do understand it's personal and I respect that. You keep being you and you're lucky to be with musicians who you love and much love.
Neither one of them are here to take up for themselves… I’m going to have to go with Cozy pal…. There’s not a better drummer.
As much as I love Dio, I kinda wish this was another Tony Martin album as the material is great, and having a consistent string of 4 martin albums might have helped his/their reputation.
I like Tony Martin's vocals on the albums, but, but, I don't see Dehumanizer doing much better, with Martin instead of Dio.🤷♂️
Seen sabbath when they was on this tour it was one of the worst concert I been to sad to say sabbath one of my favorite group seen them with Oz back in the late 70s then Gillian and Dio heaven and hell tour but this concert seem flat like they was not into just going through the motions 🤷
Dio and Vinnie with Sabbath simply made better records than Tony Martin with Sabbath. Just as Randy Rhoads made better records with Ozzy than Jake with Ozzy. Tony is good singer and Jake is a talented guitarist, they just did not take the music to a better place. Both seem to bring more keyboards into the mix, which is just not needed or really wanted in either band. Neither Sabbath or Ozzy should sound like 80's hair metal, it is just wrong.
I have to disagree. I was really disappointed with this album.
Tony Iommi was still talking to Tony Martin because it wasn’t working with Dio?
I call BS on that.
Dio knocked it out of the park on Dehumanizer and toured all the way up to Ozzfest and Dio would not open for Ozzy and a reunited Sabbath onstage.
They used Rob Halford not Tony Martin and I like Halford but those shows were awful it was just a cash cow.
It's well documented that Iommi and Dio had issues during the recordings. Martin was brought back during the recordings, but the material he worked on later became Cross Purposes. Warner Bros wasn't gonna let the band go forward without the Dio reunion. So they had to make it work.
Because Tony Martin was told if he showed up at the concert he'd be arrested.
Holy shit! Found this video whilst looking for something else. The guy who’s talking is possibly the single most uncharismatic and boring talkers I’ve ever seen 😂
This is the most pointless comment to send and to waste your time with.
half the album is more related to the style of LOOK AUP THE WOLVES, THAT horrible album DIO did before getting in SABBBATH again, the rest of the tracks could have been part of TYR or HEADLESS CROSS wich are the ones i like, TIME MACHINE, TV CRIMES, MASTER OF INSANITY... so i think if hadTONY been given the chance of being part as a WRITER, the whole album would be perfect.
It's Lock* up* the wolves. And also imo it's way more similar to Dios Strange highways album.
@@andrejz8954 Dio did Strange Highways after Dehumanizer with Sabbath. You can kinda hear Dio's anger about the 1992 situation in the lyrics of some of the songs on Strange Highways.
@@andrejz8954 The album was much much better than Strange Highway. From A to Z. Melodically and vocally and the sound was so perfect and it's one of Dio's albums.
@@bobbigboss111 LUTW? Not a bad album, but I think I prefer SH.
This is absolutely nothing like Lock Up The Wolves. This was the heaviest most crunching Sabbath album ever. Lock Up The Wolves was the lightest rock/bluesy sounding Dio album.
I thank the metal gods that Martin is not on Dehumaniser, it would have been yet another painful disaster as Eternal ldol, Headless Cross, Tyr, Cross Purposes & the final embarrassing failure Forbidden.
Oh come on! EI and especially HC and TYR are great albums!
@@andrejz8954 Maybe in a parallel universe or maybe in the 10th Dimension, but not here on earth, those Martin albums need to be sucked down a Black hole & crushed out of existence.
@@mickblack3291 Why?
Tony iommi is a brilliant guitarist but as a band mate he is a train wreck .
@@andrejz8954 The music & Vocals have no soul or presence or create any 'Sabbath' atmosphere, it just didn't cut it for me.
Tony Martin sucked !! Dio and Ozzy were the only ones that fit Sabbath. 🎸
Each to their own.
To say Tony Martin sucked is a huge stretch