Відео

This is an excellent observation! Thanks for the question! Ok, so let's assume the pitch is straight up-and-down (no traversing), and the rappel line will be no straighter than the climbing line. Let's also assume that the fall happened on a piece of gear that was more than 45m off the ground. Finally, let's assume that the base of the route is flat, without terrain to either side that is higher than other terrain (no hills, boulders, higher ledge systems, etc). In this scenario then you will need to use one of the solutions you mentioned (build a secondary anchor, use a make-shift pull-cord, fix the rope and rap, down lead, etc). 45m would be the magic number because this means you would have 15 meters of rope left over at the base of the pitch to lower the injured climber. At this point the injured climber would be exactly 30m off the deck when the rope comes tight to your harness, and you would counter-balance-climb 30 meters to get them on the ground. After constructing an anchor you would be able to rappel down with a 60m rope (just barely). If the pitch has traverses, the gear in the pitch causes the rope to weave a bit, if the base of the route is uneven and the injured climber can rest on higher ground, or if you can rappel and land on higher ground yourself then you may be able to save yourself construction of a second anchor, use of a pull-cord, or down climbing, but not always. Thankfully such a specific scenario is rare, and solutions are usually relatively simple. Thanks for watching and providing your thoughts!

Hi @mjh42777! That's a great question. Personal anchors and other leash systems have some advantages and disadvantages when it comes to attaching to anchors. An advantage of leashes is that it is very clear who is attached to the anchor and who is not (the rope is all the same color with multiple legs coming off the clove hitches, so it takes some getting used to). Also, leashes don't require you to tie a clove hitch, so it is one less knot that you can mess-up (munter hitches/Italian hitches often result when a clove hitch is tied incorrectly, which can have large consequences if it is not recognized before the follower is taken off belay). Because of these significant safety drawbacks, I often recommend that those who are newer to multipitch climbing stick with using Personal Anchor Systems and other leashes until they have their multipitch systems dialed. Then they can focus on mastering the technique of using the rope for anchoring while on the ground before taking it up on the cliff. The advantages of using the rope to attach to anchors is in the comfort that it offers. This really adds-up over the course of a long multipitch, or if you have three people at a belay anchor as when climbing as a party of three. The reason it offers so much more comfort is because a clove-hitch allows you to introduce or take-up just about as much slack as you want. So if there is a good ledge six feet below the anchor, you can have one or both of your followers hang-out on that ledge while still anchored on the bolts/trad anchor above (you might be able to do something similar with a Personal Anchor, but it would require adding long slings to the anchor to provide the extension, which you may not have available if you need the slings for the next pitch or next anchor). If the lead climber anchors at the belay using the rope with a clove, they can have a seat beneath the anchor while belaying in order to rest their legs, even if the best seated position is well below the anchor. Once the leader leaves the belay to lead the next pitch, one of the followers can step into the stance the leader was using, and with a quick adjustment of the clove hitch they are comfortably anchored in the new position- even if that new position is ten feet away from where they were standing previously. Use of tethers (such as personal anchors) and the rope for anchoring both can result in rope management snafus. Mitigating these requires developing an understanding of how the followers will enter the belay station (from the left or right), how the lead rope(s) need to overlap the tethers/rope attachments of followers, and how the leader will depart the belay station while leading the next pitch (going left or right). For those who are still learning multipitch belay station management, and for experienced multipitch climbers who make the occasional mistake, a tether can be a useful tool for anchoring all team members while you work-out such a problem, which might be easiest to solve by untying team members after they have been anchored by their PAs (a common occurrence in big wall climbing). Additionally, tethers are almost always used on technical descents such as rappels, where it is efficient to rappel to the next rap anchor and clip directly into a pre-constructed quad that you have clipped to both bolts/rings. In other words, I think both PAs and the rope are great tools for multipitch anchoring, and I use them both in my personal climbing and when guiding. Mastering the use of both of these tools offers the advantages of comfort and security combined. Let me know if that answered your question!

@@skillsforclimbing thanks for the thorough response!

Thanks so much for the supportive comment!

This is a great question @jacqueslamintagne6890! In some countries a "slippery half-hitch" is used as the initial block that prevents the munter hitch from lowering. The slippery-half-hitch (or slippery-hitch for short) is similar to a mule-hitch, in that it can be pulled out and released under load. Like you mention, it is much easier to tie than a mule-hitch. The slippery hitch is then followed by a series of half-hitches to prevent the hitch from being accidentally pulled-out. In most cases this system works perfectly well- especially in the context of recreational climbing where the loads on anchors tend to be small (just the weight of one climber). However, there are a few specific scenarios when a slippery half-hitch might become difficult to release. If there is very little friction of the load strand running over rock, and you have a constant large force pulling on the locked-off munter, then the loop that the slippery-hitch is passed through can become very, very snug. This makes it exceptionally difficult to release the hitch while under load. This is sometimes the case when docking heavy haul-bags at anchors on multi-day big-walls, and it can also happen in rescue scenarios when you have a climber hanging in space after falling off a traverse above a roof for example. I have used both techniques for locking-off crevasse rescue systems (where a climber was lowered into a crevasse on a munter initially) and I found both lock-offs worked fine. The use of multiple half-hitches instead of a single overhand-on-a-bite to lock-off the remaining tail/loop is largely one of preference I think. Both work great. Perhaps the half-hitch series requires more rope and is a greater tripping hazard, but I can't think of any strong argument for or against either method.

Works for double-rope rappels too!

Thanks for the high praise @ellavateify! So happy the video helped you out!

At some point I would love to. Depending on the complexity of the scenario that would likely need to be a video series, as there are many sub-skills needed to enact a rescue. Having a good background in aid climbing is a big plus. But I can talk you through a simple scenario right here! In the simplest scenario you are on the first or second pitch of a climb, and your lead climber falls on a piece that is less than one full rope length from the ground. For example you are on the second pitch of a route, which is traversing to the right, and your lead climber falls. You check the topo and see that you are about 40 meters above the ground and you have a 60 meter rope. In this case you would counter-balance climb toward your climber and clean as you go, as demonstrated in the video, until your climber is on the ground (there's a good chance it will be an uncomfortable landing down there- could be bushes or even cactuses- so to keep the scenario at its simplest we will say whatever discomfort they experience upon reaching the ground is acceptable). Once the climber is on the ground they can then belay you. Continue to climb until you can construct an anchor. Attach the the anchor. Now have your partner untie from the rope, making sure there is no knot in the end. Now pull the free-end of the rope up to you. It's important there is no knot, because it will jam in gear that will remain on the pitch. Once you have the end of the rope then secure it to your anchor and do a single-strand rappel to the ground (40m on the 60m rope) or if time is not of the essence, or getting your gear is important for getting the rest of the way off of a feature, then set-up a rappel on your constructed anchor as normal. Do a rap that is at least 10 meters long, and then build another anchor with the gear you cleaned in order to reach the ground with a 30m rap. Retrieve your rope and get help.

Thanks for the positive feedback @AndrewDale1986!

Thanks much @zeldathwelder!

That's a great question @vickjou4544! Whether to use an equalized v-anchor or a quad is really a personal preference when it comes to good bolts. Both a quad and a V-anchor are plenty strong for the application. In trad climbing and alpine climbing there are times when you reach a ledge and your best anchor option is just two cams (either because you used gear in the pitch below, because there aren't many placement options, or because you are trying to move quickly and the terrain does not demand a three or four point anchor). If I were using two cams for my anchor instead of bolts, and the cams were not both unquestionably strong and in unquestionably strong rock, then I would prefer to use an equalized V-anchor rather than a quad. This is because if one of the placements failed it will take more of a shock-load with a quad than with a V-anchor. In the case of good bolts, it is highly unlikely that one leg of the anchor would fail (if it did it could be because you nose-clipped a carabiner, broke a carabiner by clipping through a point on the anchor that resulted in levering, or the bolt was not placed or tightened appropriately). The next bolt should then still be more than strong enough to handle a small shock-load with the dynamic rope. The two biggest reasons I like to use quads on bolts is 1) If you use a 240cm dyneema quad, and tripple-it before tying the knots (not just doubled), then it is extremely easy to untie- even after it has been under load for an entire day of top roping. No need to pass a carabiner into the knot to help it stay loose. I've used this for setting-up slack lines- which are under quite a bit of tension- and still had minimal difficulty untying the knot at the end of the day. The other reason is because I can pre-tie the quad, and when I reach a bolted anchor I can usually quickly clip it in without the need to make any adjustments. It is self-equalizing. On a multipitch route this is very handy, since I might be trying to stay out of another party's way, and this saves a bit of time. The large separate shelves also are nice when attaching multipitch climbers, since the movement of one climber on the anchor doesn't pull other climber around nearly as much as if they were attached to a V-anchor. But these are personal preferences, and are not more technical system and comfort related than safety.

Thanks for the positive feedback @Vince-ml9gw!

Glad I could help!

Happy it was helpful!

Thanks so much @jeffreycarman2185!

Thanks so much @gregggagliardi6231!

Thanks for the question@lennmusicman! For a bolted route the system is very similar. Counter-balance climb until your partner is on the ground, and then have them put you on belay. Continue climbing until you reach a bolt that is unquestionably strong (continue reading to see what to do if you can't judge the strength). Put a locking carabiner into this bolt, and lock it closed. This locking carabiner will serve as a master-point which you can attach yourself to and through which you can thread the rappel rope. Using a locking carabiner as a master point solves a few problems: 1) it reduces or eliminates the liklihood of breaking a carabiner that is holding your body weight. This could happen if you clip directly into a bolt hanger that has a protruding bolt which causes leverage on the carabiner attachment for your leash. It's a bit difficult to describe this, but several sport climbing accidents have happened when climbers fell, and broke carabiners that levered between the hanger and a protruding bolt. A bit easier to understand is the problem with threading a rope through a hanger that you are also clipped into, which is very tight and the rope is easily pinched which makes it difficult. At the end of this response I've included a video showing the problem with multiple carabiners clipped into a small bolt hanger. So first add a locking carabiner to use as a master point, and then attach yourself with your personal anchor or another tether system. Have your partner who is on the ground untie from the end of the rope, making sure there is not a knot in the end. Pull that end through all the gear you are leaving behind on the wall, and when the end gets to you set-up a rappel to another bomber bolt, and repeat the process until you are down. Remember, protection bolts are designed to handle very high forces in a fall, so if they are placed well in good rock then they should easily handle the force of a rappel. However, bad bolts and bad placements do exist. If you have any question about the ability of a bolt to handle the force of a rappel, then it's better to back-it-up. OK, so how do you do that? You can use the climbing rope to attach one bolt to another, and do a single rope rap to the ground, but that is a bit difficult to talk through in text. So to keep it simple let's say that as you lowered the leader you snagged a cordalete off of her harness. In this scenario your belayer gets to the ground, and then she puts you on belay. Then you climb up 2-bolts past where you were put on belay. Attach the cordalete to the second bolt you reach (the higher of the two) with a carabiner, and then have your partner lower you back down to the bolt below. Tie an over-hand knot in the cordalete and clip a carabiner above the knot, and then clip that to the lower bolt so there is almost no slack in the cordalete between the two bolts you clipped. This won't make the bolts completely equalized, but should make it so that if the lower bolt fails the upper bolt will take the load with a minimum of slack. Now set-up the rappel as described above. I hope this helps! And here is a good video demonstrating the danger of clipping multiple carabiners in a single bolt hanger. Enjoy! ua-cam.com/video/-yTWcVaCRlg/v-deo.html

Oh yes! You are absolutely right @robstone8782. Thank you for noting this here, as this information was not presented accurately in the video. This can be a great piece of education for others reading these comments. Rob did a good job of explaining why there is double the weight of the climber on the top piece of protection, but for those who didn't catch that, here is a simplified scenario to illustrate: Imagine you have a pulley hanging from a beam in your ceiling, and on one side of the pulley you attach your bulldog, which weighs 50lbs. To attach the dog you lift it up in the air so its legs are not touching the ground. In order to keep that dog off the ground, on the strand coming down from the other side of the pulley you attach your basset hound, which also weighs 50lbs. In this system, which is at equilibrium, you can suspend two 50lb dogs in the air without either dog being raised or lowered. The single point anchor at they pulley is holding the weight of both dogs, so 100lbs total (not just the 50lbs of the first dog). Now let's change the scenario a little. Let's say that everything remains the same, but instead of attaching your basset hound to keep your bulldog suspended you instead attach yourself, and you weigh 150lbs. If you were to lift your legs off the floor, then the bulldog would be sucked up toward the pulley and you would go back down to the floor because of the weight difference. During this transition the load on the anchor would increase somewhat for a short duration, but once your legs are back on the ground and the system is no longer bouncing then the force on the anchor would still be 100lbs. Why is it 100lbs and not 200lbs (your weight plus weight of the dog)? This is because the system is back at equilibrium, and neither load is going up or down. On your harness you should be able to feel the 50lb load of the dog which is pulling you up toward the anchor. In fact, if you stood on a scale, you would see that the scale would display your weight as 100lbs, which is 50lbs less than your actual weight (if it were a frictionless system). The 100lbs you see on the scale is the amount of force being put into the ground. So in this system you have 100lbs on the anchor (dog plus 50lbs of your body weight keeping the dog off the ground) and 100lbs of force going into the ground. In the rock rescue system demonstrated in the video the primary reason the rescuer should counterbalance climb is because of what would happen should the highest piece of protection fail. If the rescuer is climbing the rock, and the upper piece fails, then the rope will catch on the next piece of protection and pull the rescuer UP toward the piece that held. But if the rescuer is climbing the rope instead of the rock, and the upper piece fails, then the rescuer will fall because the rope is also falling to the next piece of protection. This greatly increases the chance of injuring of the rescuer. Counterbalance climbing does also result in a lower force on the anchor than climbing the rope, mostly because you can generally climb more smoothly than you can ascend a rope (Rob mentions this when talking about jugging/aiding), but it does not reduce the force on the anchor to become that of the climber you are rescuing. Thanks so much for catching this and sharing Rob!

@@skillsforclimbing no worries, i'm an instructor here in UK and i like seeing how things are done over the pond (not much different in this - other than locking of the plate) and your videos are excellent

@@robstone8782 Thanks so much for your supportive comments. Yeah, I enjoy seeing how climbing systems are employed by different people and in different countries as well. My videos by no means represent a specific standard that is followed by all climbers or guides in the US. As a certified guide, I have passed several rescue exams, but none of the rescue scenarios used in exams were similar to the one presented in this video. In other words, this is my own solution here and not one that is endorsed or vetted by the AMGA or other certifying bodies. For the video I wanted to present a much simpler scenario than those in guide exams, that would involve fewer technical systems, and that is generally more relevant to the climbing public. It's fun to hear that similar systems are used by climbers in the UK. Enjoy the instructing!

What a great exchange this was. You make great videos and set an excellent example of always staying curious and humble.

Most of your videos are great but this one seems to miss. Aside from much of the video emphasizing an incorrect understanding of the forces on the top gear piece you also spend a ton of time rigging a conventional rappel when you could have self lowered with almost none of that setup time.

Wow, thank you for such a positive comment @booger5514! Much appreciated. These days I am guiding part-time, as I've gone back to school for nursing. I work for Yosemite Mountaineering School (in Yosemite Valley) in the summer and for a few smaller companies on weekends. I will be guiding in Nepal again this fall.

Thanks so much for your support @verticalfeel! If you are free-hanging in space you can use the foot-loop to step-up and flip the device into guide mode, and can then ascend the rope using the foot-loop to progress upward. But you are right- it is a bit more difficult without a wall to stabilize yourself on. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!

Thanks for watching and for commenting @brunomarques309! The technique you are talking about using here is end-roping. Generally end-roping is used in fourth-class terrain with short steps (usually less than 6 meters) of steep 5th class terrain interspersed. Sometimes it is also used on slabby terrain without traverses, where if one climber falls it is unlikely to pull the other climber off. From your description it was difficult to know if this is the type of terrain you were thinking about using this in? If the terrain has traverses or significant steep sections then there are some very big drawbacks in terms of safety. One of the biggest is that if one climber falls, and this pulls-off the other climber as well, then you have two bodies weighting the rope and perhaps swinging across a face (if the terrain is sustained and steep, which is not the terrain where this should be used). This means the rope could be dragged over sharp edges or loose rock under significant load. This could easily cut a rope- even two ropes in the case of twin ropes- as this is more weight than the manufacturer might have intended. That's not to say that recreational climbers don't do this, as we all have our own level of acceptable risk (I do this on occasion when I am not guiding), but it does increase risk and would be unacceptable in many guiding contexts. In terms of the use of twin ropes for this, personally, like to use a beefy single rope for end-roping (something with a durable sheath that isn't too skinny). This makes the rope management much easier, makes it easy for me to kiwi-coil to shorten the rope, and makes it much easier to use terrain belays. Also, because the rope is thicker, there is a lower chance of cutting the rope on sharp edges than if I were using a skinny rope (I can't comment on which would be easier to cut- two twins or a fat single rate rope). Everything else you described about the system sounds like it would work great to me. I hope this helps!

you can adapt this to 5th class terrain by making the alpine loop BIG, like 3m. this works well for short pitches, and can be adapted to suit other situations, it makes it so if the 3rd falls then the 2nd has a buffer, so long as there is not too much slack in the belay

That's a great question @vickjou4544! The reason for this was not shown in the video, so I'll talk through it. First, imagine that my partner does not want to lead the next pitch, so I will be belaying them up and then transitioning into leading. Now imagine that instead of adding a "master point locker" as demonstrated in the video, I instead add a single locking carabiner to the anchor and clove-hitch into it (as opposed to adding a separate locker that I clove into like in the video). I then clip my belay device into the same locking carabiner that I am clove-hitched into and belay my partner up to me. Once my partner arrives I need to clip them into the anchor. Ideally I would like to clip them into the master point. Unfortunately, in this case the master point is a quick-link, and there is not enough space in the link to clip another locking carabiner into it. So I decide to clip my partner into the same locking carabiner that I am clove hitched into- either with their pass or with a clove-hitch on a new locker. Oops! Now I have another problem. I want to unclip from the anchor to lead the next pitch, but I can't leave the belay without unclipping my partner from the anchor. This is because they are attached to the anchor on the same attachment I am attached to the anchor with (they are clipped into the same locking carabiner that I clove-hitched into initially). Now I need to find a way to reanchor them. So the reason that I add the master locker as the first step in the video is to create a master point that is large enough to clip multiple locking carabiners into without trapping myself. Because it is rigid, a locking carabiner masterpoint does not collapse and pinch down on carabiners like webbing will do under load, which makes clipping in and out of the master point especially easy. A locking carabiner masterpoint can accommodate my clove-hitch locker, the locker for my belay device, a locker to clove my partner into, and even another locker to attach a third team member to if we are climbing as a party of three. Let me know if that answers your question!

Sounds like you are writing a book or screenplay. This video is specifically about how to allow one team member to get going on the second pitch while the other person deals with untangling and organizing the other half of the rope. It is not relevant to a solo rappel and would just cause wasted time or tangles. Maybe look at conventional multi-pitch rappel techniques, carabiner blocks, fiddle sticks, tag lines and macrame knots if you want techniques for a solo hero.

Ah, this is a great question! Thanks for asking. I actually start with 8.5 of my arm lengths between climbers. In this system I am using knots, which take-up rope. One butterfly knot takes-up about 22 inches of rope, and I have 6 of them (132 inches or 11 ft of rope used in knots). 11 ft is about 2 arm lengths for me. So here's the arm-length math: 1.5 arm lengths between myself and the first knot, 0.5 to second knot, 0.5 to 3rd knot, 1.5 to the 4th knot, 0.5 to the 5th, 0.5 to the 6th, 1.5 to my partner, and 2 to account for rope that is needed to tie knots (1.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 1.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 1.5 + 2 = 8.5 arm lengths). Once the knots are tied then 8.5 arm lengths of rope becomes 6.5 arm lengths of distance between the two climbers. And if you'd like more context for arm lengths: Some people have shorter arm spans, and some people have longer arm spans. My 8.5 are going to be more like 9 for people whose arms are shorter, and more like 8 for people whose arms are longer. Arm spans do not measure the same amount of rope for every person, but they are useful as a way to keep track of whether I need to add or subtract relative distance between climbers. If I am traveling on a glacier with larger crevasses (like in Alaska), with heavier loads (like sleds), and in soft snow (like early season in the PNW), then generally I will want to add length (and therefore arm spans) between team members. I may want to have 10 or even 12 arm spans between climbers, and then add knots, or perhaps NOT add knots if I will be using running protection along a traverse for example. This would likely require a 60m rope rather than a 40m depending upon my preferred rescue system. Similarly, if I have a light pack, steep terrain, a hard snow surface, or open crevasses that are close in proximity to one another, then I might choose to shorten my rope even though I am traveling as a party of 2. This is because I might be more worried about a slip and fall that ends in an open crevasse below me than I am about a punch through a soft snow bridge in low angle terrain. In other words, each time the condition of the snow on the surface changes (hard to soft or soft to hard) each time the angle changes (steep vs. low angle) and each time my load changes I will consider changing the length of my rope. On glacier climbs without belayed climbing I might change the length 3 or 4 times over the course of an 8hr climb. Hopefully this explains the rope distances and provides a bit of context for the way a rope is used in glacial terrain. Thanks so much for the excellent question!

Happy it was helpful!

Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

Happy it was helpful! Yeah, I find that knot always gets in the way :)