good advice! One thing I would add is that when you use a carabiner block, be aware of what ledges or cracks its gonna hit on the way down as you pull the rope after rappelling. I've gotten my rope stuck a few times because of that.
That’s a great video on a complicated method. For anyone who’s thinking of trying this in the wild, I highly recommend practicing it in person from a qualified instructor. There are some subtleties to this technique, and loads of ways you could do it wrong and die. Yes, you could say that about most everything and climbing, but I think it especially applies to rope blocks. This video is a great start to learning the basics, but please practice it in a controlled environment first.
Nice video, thanks. One point to note, a tag/rap whatever line should be 10% longer than the rope you're using, to account for the stretch when you load it on rappel/abseil. Could be a bit embarrassing if you lost the end, especially if it's windy...
I use a butterfly there, and always link it to the main rope. that way I can still flick it early on. This way I have a knot and a binder block. I have been using 4mm spectra lately as a tag line which is hard to grip and digs in so I need to use gloves, but it fits into a tiny little bag smaller than a small chalk bag. There are pros and cons to such a small rope and to using spectra.
Thanks so much for your addition @samsara592000! The reapshnur, as you describe, is another great method for working with ropes of different diameters. I use a micro-traction for retrieving my Petzl Purline (not pictured in the video), as it provides a solid grip and ratchet function for the pull. Yeah, thin cords can be tangly :)
There’s actually another potential problem when you clip the load strand to the pull strand. Doing this creates a closed loop, which moves down the rope when you pull the retrieval cord. If there’s any kind of obstruction, such as a rock spike, boulder, snow/ice blob, shrub, etc. this loop can get caught above the obstruction and your rope is stuck. If you do not clip the load cord to the pull cord, then you don’t create this closed loop, and you’re more likely to have a successful pull. It may be a little hard to visualize this when you read about it, but you can set it up on your floor and you should see how it works. If you have a nice clean rappel route, then this may not be an issue. But that’s often not the case in the alpine world.
Climbing for me so far has been all about redundancy and safety. I was thinking of getting myself a 35m rope for multi pitching and grabbing a 6mm 40m rope pull strand, that way I can swing lead every pitch with my partner and not have to haul so much rope (currently have a 70m rope). My question is, if you get to an anchor and it has just two anchors with no rap rings how would you set this up? Just put your rope through both bolts and use the carabiner block as shown in this video? Any insight would be great! Thanks :)
My 2cents: 1. It's not worth the hassle, just get a full 70 m rope. There are times where you'll need more than 35 m of rope. eg. you missed the last good belay ledge and the next one is a few meters more than 35 m. Or linking pitches 2. Just put a bail alpine draw on the bolt (girth hitch the bolt and biner and you can bail with 1x 60 m sling and 1 biner on 2 bolts). If the angle of rappelling is off on the bolt your rope can easily get stuck, not worth the risk imo 3. Also I try to avoid using a biner block because it's a lot easier to get the rope stuck this way (depends on the terrain of course). But I'd say a lot of things can go wrong when you're rapping with a skinny pull cord, and it's an unnecessary risk for a lot of times I'm just a regular climber tho, not a guide or a pro, just my 2 cents... Happy climbing :)
Great question @ssaw3008. Cross loading refers to a force being applied to a carabiner in two opposite directions, on opposite sides of the carabiner, in the narrow profile. For example if you are belaying and your belay carabiner turns side-ways while you are lowering your climber, then there will be a load on the gate pulling in one direction (from the belay loop), and a load on the spine of the carabiner in the other direction (from the belay device pulling on the spine). In this system there is only a force in one direction, which is on the spine side of the carabiner as the rope pulls the spine of the carabiner into the rings. Additionally, this force is remarkably small, since in a rappel it would be unusual to generate 2 kN of force due to the low load and the stretch of the rope. A note on cross-loading carabiners- the most common cases of cross-loading carabiners I see is when ascending a rope in aid climbing or rescue (the carabiner attached to the ascender or prusik rotates) or when rappelling and the carabiner that captures the rope rotates. In both of these cases the load on the carabiner is small- generally less than 2kN. Carabiners rated for rock climbing are rated in a cross loaded position to at least 7kN. That may not sound like much, but 7 to 8kN is generally considered lethal when applied to the human body (it can start to tear you in half). In other words, if you have forces in a rock climbing system that might cause a cross-loaded carabiner to fail, then you have got much more to worry about than the carabiner. If you are a professional rigger, and you are working with static ropes, steel cable, and loads that are much heavier than one or two human bodies, then cross loading is a very real concern. Often cross-loading is confused with pinching, levering, or nose-clipping of a carabiner in an immobile portion of a system (such as a carabiner getting levered inside a climbing bolt occupied with a fat quick link or a broad locking carabiner). This can be and has been the cause of carabiner failures, and should certainly be avoided.
You did talk about the rap ring/quicklink being a solid block for the biner, but you really should have emphasized the fact that with carabiners at the top it is possible for the ‘block’ to pop through and be catastrophic. Excellent video otherwise
good advice! One thing I would add is that when you use a carabiner block, be aware of what ledges or cracks its gonna hit on the way down as you pull the rope after rappelling. I've gotten my rope stuck a few times because of that.
That’s a great video on a complicated method. For anyone who’s thinking of trying this in the wild, I highly recommend practicing it in person from a qualified instructor. There are some subtleties to this technique, and loads of ways you could do it wrong and die. Yes, you could say that about most everything and climbing, but I think it especially applies to rope blocks. This video is a great start to learning the basics, but please practice it in a controlled environment first.
Excellent demonstration thank you Glen.
Thanks for watching @chriskaplan6109! Happy it was helpful!
Nice video, thanks. One point to note, a tag/rap whatever line should be 10% longer than the rope you're using, to account for the stretch when you load it on rappel/abseil. Could be a bit embarrassing if you lost the end, especially if it's windy...
Good point. That’s why the Petzl Pur line comes in a 65 m length.
Very useful video
I use a butterfly there, and always link it to the main rope. that way I can still flick it early on. This way I have a knot and a binder block. I have been using 4mm spectra lately as a tag line which is hard to grip and digs in so I need to use gloves, but it fits into a tiny little bag smaller than a small chalk bag. There are pros and cons to such a small rope and to using spectra.
Thanks so much for your addition @samsara592000! The reapshnur, as you describe, is another great method for working with ropes of different diameters. I use a micro-traction for retrieving my Petzl Purline (not pictured in the video), as it provides a solid grip and ratchet function for the pull. Yeah, thin cords can be tangly :)
Is there any reason not to clip the biner back to the rappelling rope as well?
@@skillsforclimbing thanks for this really well written response. Great video as well.
There’s actually another potential problem when you clip the load strand to the pull strand. Doing this creates a closed loop, which moves down the rope when you pull the retrieval cord. If there’s any kind of obstruction, such as a rock spike, boulder, snow/ice blob, shrub, etc. this loop can get caught above the obstruction and your rope is stuck.
If you do not clip the load cord to the pull cord, then you don’t create this closed loop, and you’re more likely to have a successful pull.
It may be a little hard to visualize this when you read about it, but you can set it up on your floor and you should see how it works.
If you have a nice clean rappel route, then this may not be an issue. But that’s often not the case in the alpine world.
@@johngo6283 thanks for the clarification.
Climbing for me so far has been all about redundancy and safety. I was thinking of getting myself a 35m rope for multi pitching and grabbing a 6mm 40m rope pull strand, that way I can swing lead every pitch with my partner and not have to haul so much rope (currently have a 70m rope). My question is, if you get to an anchor and it has just two anchors with no rap rings how would you set this up? Just put your rope through both bolts and use the carabiner block as shown in this video? Any insight would be great! Thanks :)
My 2cents:
1. It's not worth the hassle, just get a full 70 m rope. There are times where you'll need more than 35 m of rope. eg. you missed the last good belay ledge and the next one is a few meters more than 35 m. Or linking pitches
2. Just put a bail alpine draw on the bolt (girth hitch the bolt and biner and you can bail with 1x 60 m sling and 1 biner on 2 bolts). If the angle of rappelling is off on the bolt your rope can easily get stuck, not worth the risk imo
3. Also I try to avoid using a biner block because it's a lot easier to get the rope stuck this way (depends on the terrain of course). But I'd say a lot of things can go wrong when you're rapping with a skinny pull cord, and it's an unnecessary risk for a lot of times
I'm just a regular climber tho, not a guide or a pro, just my 2 cents... Happy climbing :)
What kind of backpack was that?
Question.. doesn't the carabiner on the rap rope ger cross loaded??
Great question @ssaw3008. Cross loading refers to a force being applied to a carabiner in two opposite directions, on opposite sides of the carabiner, in the narrow profile. For example if you are belaying and your belay carabiner turns side-ways while you are lowering your climber, then there will be a load on the gate pulling in one direction (from the belay loop), and a load on the spine of the carabiner in the other direction (from the belay device pulling on the spine). In this system there is only a force in one direction, which is on the spine side of the carabiner as the rope pulls the spine of the carabiner into the rings. Additionally, this force is remarkably small, since in a rappel it would be unusual to generate 2 kN of force due to the low load and the stretch of the rope.
A note on cross-loading carabiners- the most common cases of cross-loading carabiners I see is when ascending a rope in aid climbing or rescue (the carabiner attached to the ascender or prusik rotates) or when rappelling and the carabiner that captures the rope rotates. In both of these cases the load on the carabiner is small- generally less than 2kN. Carabiners rated for rock climbing are rated in a cross loaded position to at least 7kN. That may not sound like much, but 7 to 8kN is generally considered lethal when applied to the human body (it can start to tear you in half). In other words, if you have forces in a rock climbing system that might cause a cross-loaded carabiner to fail, then you have got much more to worry about than the carabiner. If you are a professional rigger, and you are working with static ropes, steel cable, and loads that are much heavier than one or two human bodies, then cross loading is a very real concern. Often cross-loading is confused with pinching, levering, or nose-clipping of a carabiner in an immobile portion of a system (such as a carabiner getting levered inside a climbing bolt occupied with a fat quick link or a broad locking carabiner). This can be and has been the cause of carabiner failures, and should certainly be avoided.
You did talk about the rap ring/quicklink being a solid block for the biner, but you really should have emphasized the fact that with carabiners at the top it is possible for the ‘block’ to pop through and be catastrophic. Excellent video otherwise