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You are right. Mostly. This building, however, was built in 1915, so the Dead Men had no other choice but to design it so that the condensate was returned by gravity. That is true for all buildings that had boilers installed during the coal heating era. If such a building was added to after WWII, that's when pumps started to be used. I do everything I can to remove these tanks whenever possible, as they are often unnecessary. I have other videos on this building, which I've been working on for twenty heating seasons, where I show the false water line I built to restore the original water lines, which then allowed the returns to operate as wet returns.

Please make sure there is water flowing TO the unit properly. That's the first thing I would do. Then, I would replace the rusted up #101A junk with a Hydrolevel VXT automatic water feeder.

@@apex36 In my terminology, a steam wet return is piping that is below the boiler's water line and therefore full of water, so no vent would be appropriate . I suspect that's not what you mean. Since I cannot see your system, it would be difficult to recommend a specific sized vent, but I would investigate the Gorton line of vents.

@@gordonschweizer5154 so if below the water line, no vent is needed and pitch is not an issue

@@apex36 Yes, no vent should be needed & pitch is not an issue, but it should pitch to a drain valve for possible maintenance.

@@dannywilkins887 Yes, it appears they are made with chinesium steel & designed to fail.

Having said that, I do like your idea. The condensate definitely starts out crystal clean and doesn’t cause much corrosion-it’s the added water that’s the problem

There are two boilers. That boiler feed tank was "baked" into the system years before I arrived nearly 20 years ago. It was a mess. Both boilers were run at the same time and pumping in at 7 psi. Long story short, they now run one boiler at a time (the other is in reserve in case of breakage), and cycles at about 4oz/in2. When the previous tank rotted out a few years ago, I tried to get them to go to gravity return, but it was a bit too far for the co-op board to go with me.

@@gordonschweizer5154good on you for trying!! And thanks for the kind reply!

@@gordonschweizer5154 Well thank you for trying to make it simpler and better!! And thanks for the kind reply! Please check out my recent video which is related! ua-cam.com/video/Bx8NryCUkng/v-deo.html

I saw your excellent video prior to making this one and that is why I mentioned the clear condensate I was experiencing on this system!

I would double check your wiring from your low water cut-off to the "black mailbox". You might also reach out to McDonnell-Miller tech service. Please let me know if they help you.

⁠ I call them and they directed to call a contractor said they could not give me answers not even a tip, when I look at everything last night all seems to be working properly , cut off is working to turn feeder on when low it’s just the feeder that continues to feed on setting 2 (dwell 60 feed 60 cycle 5) filling to line and stops perfectly and feeds again 4 times but I cut it before that , tried setting 3 ( dwell 30 feed 270 cycle 1 ) but I also cut because it seems to want to overflow on that cycle so I shut it off , the other two settings I have not tried are setting 1 ( dwell 0 feed 300 cycle 1 - says use with flow type lwco) and setting 4 ( dwell 120 feed 180 cycle 1 ) .. do you suggest anything else ? I want to try to do it on my own. Forgot to say is a McClain series 35 100k but and a hydro level 400 that’s is hookup to.

If the wiring is correct, it may be the L.W.C.O. is sending false signals to the feeder. Did you have an automatic feeder prior to this one? It also might be the feeder is defective. I'd return it and install a Hydrolevel VXT feeder instead. At least you will get FAR better customer service.

@@gordonschweizer5154 ​​⁠ not this would be the first feeder installed as the boiler it’s new and first time use this winter , the I can’t find the installer but the boiler is working good , prior to this the notice the feeder wasn’t connected properly to the lwco and I got it to work by moving one wire that was in the wrong place , so you think the cross wire before probably cause damage to the water feeder ECU motherboard ?? Also when you say false signal all I see is the yellow light come on when water is drained to a low level via test and that activates the feeder , right now is not cold enough to use the heat I’m only in the testing process before hand

I got a hold of a tech and was told that possible the probe of the lwco is probably has too much tape to the boiler and is probably not grounding well so it’s not is probably not sending the signal to stop the feeder once water level is meet

@@Alejandro-xz9kd Since the number displayed on the VXT represents the amount of fresh make-up water that has added to your steam boiler in gallons (more or less), and any added fresh water brings in corrosive oxygen that will eventually destroy your boiler, the number displayed ideally should be as low as possible. How low? That depends...

Water "seeks it's own level". The return water "stacks up" in the vertical drips out in the system and pushes the water up back into the boiler.

Appreciate your reply got it now thanks

Thank you! Some folks do add water to the pigtail on first-time start up, but it seems not to be really necessary as you say. What I think is far more important is to check every season to see if the pigtail is not clogged.

@@gordonschweizer5154 thanks for your reply. I really appreciate it. I just replaced my 30 plus year pigtail with a brass version. Old Pigtail surprisingly was not clogged. Also replaced the gauge as it was way off by a few psi. Was is the normal residential boiler operating pressure on the gauge for a 2 story building when all radiators are fully heated? Was is the normal CUT-IN psi and CUT-OUT psi that the Honeywell pressuretrol is/should be typically set at? Thanks in advance.

The Empire State Building operates their steam heating system at 1.5 psi. on cold days. That is not a misplaced decimal. That is one point five. One and a half pounds per square inch. On cold days. Not so cold days, the pressure is set even lower. The sixteen story Bromo Seltzer Tower in Baltimore, which is heated with a steam system I personally maintain, heats all 44 radiators at a pressure of 8 oz per square inch or 1/2 or 0.5 psi. (I have videos of it on my channel) A 36 unit co-op in Baltimore where I have personally maintained their steam system for 20 years, circulates steam in all of their radiators at 4 oz/inch. These pressures will hardly show on the code required 30 psi gauge. Yet these are all the steam pressure you are likely to need for your building. If you seem to need more, something else is wrong - likely it is not enough main venting (a whole other topic). I have several videos on setting the pressuretrol to its lowest possible setting - cut in at 0.5 psi plus the setting of "1" on the differential wheel.

What voltage VXT do you have? When the low water cut-off light is on, is there a dot in front of the right hand number of the your VXT?

Thank you for the kind words! I installed this unit and it was in service for some 15 years and gave excellent service. There was no water hammer that I could detect (admittedly, my hearing isn't great). The unit worked, until suddenly it didn't.

@@themacavelly You are most welcome for the kind words! Yes, the Vent Rite #1 is my go-to vent in most cases. I would not put a Vent-Rite on the radiator in the room with the thermostat. That radiator should get a fixed vent so it becomes the index for the system. Which fixed vent? Hard to say, but I usually start with a Hoffman #40. Balancing a steam system is often a process of trial & error. Please do make sure your steam mains are insulated and fully vented by themselves. I would recommend a Gorton #2 on the longest main.

What sort of main steam vents do you have?

You're most welcome for the kind words. The steam is supposed to condense back into water in order for it to give up the heat that was put into it at the boiler. The trick is to get the water generated out of the way of the incoming steam or the steam will "kick it around" (aka water hammer) and that would be bad.

I trust you are being facetious.

It depends, but it is likely the vent has failed in the open position. See if you can replace it with a Gorton vent.

You might mean Cupric sulphate? If I recall (it was some time ago when I got this particular Trane D.R.T.), there was a pungent odor of ammonia(?) when this was first removed from the system.

You might think it’s ferrous sulfate because of its green color unlike cupric sulfates blueish color

@@pipers255 and it seems there's also more cast iron in the system than copper (if any).

Thanks! What questions do you have?

Try removing the top packing nut on the top sight glass fitting and then remove the stem. You should now be able to toggle out the glass.

@@gordonschweizer5154 thank you!

@@danieloneill4459 I would take this opportunity to remove your failing 101A and send it to be recycled. Lots of iron and some copper in that chunk of junk Some steam heating workers believe that automatic water feeders are not needed at all, and they have a point. Others, like me, would argue that Hydrolevel 's model VXT automatic steam boiler water feeder is the best feeder by far and it is cheaper than the 101A. The VXT can be programmed to feed the right amount of water into your boiler and keeps track of how much water it feeds, giving you, the user, early warning of potential trouble so you can take corrective action before it is too late.

Yes, many cities here on the north eastern seaboard are "living steam heating museums" lol! Yes, we are still "on call" for the Bromo Seltzer Tower.

Well, it's not really a "blast door" per se (I exaggerated a little), it is a fire door. There is supposed to be a fusible link on the chain with the weight that holds the door open. Should the boiler room get too hot, like if the burners kept running when there was no water in the boiler, the fusible link would melt, releasing the weight, and the door should roll shut, keeping the fire in the boiler room... for awhile at least.

Most of the air in the old days came thru those large wooden ducts from the outside. There appears to have been a crude wet-cell battery driven damper zone valve for each duct to each coil. Those doors marked "keep open" were indeed meant to be closed back in the day. Those doors were marked open when we got there, and it still seems to work. We are concentrating on getting the steam to the coils (a slow process).

The outside air intake is less than the old days, to be sure, but it's still there, sort of. As we have worked over the years to get each coil bundle working one at a time, the vents in the area above the new repaired coils in the auditorium start to waft out sweat gentle warmth for the first time in generations.

Back in those days, "devitalized air" was a huge concern. Outside, "clean" air was ducted into the building and into those heating coil chambers. The exit points of the heated air from the heating coils and ducting was right at the feet of the audience. The open auditorium space above is fairly large even by today's standards, and has theater-like chairs. The perimeter walls of that auditorium do also have the traditional radiator set-up which act in conjunction with the indirect heaters keeping the center space warm (or did, until those old traps failed!)

@@gordonschweizer5154 they called it "devitalized air" back then, today we call it "CO2 buildup" and "airborne pathogens" (especially after 2020). They certainly knew ventilation was important for health.

Thank you!

Glad it was helpful!

You are welcome!

Thanks! It's nice when G throws this channel a bone every once and awhile lol.

@@gordonschweizer5154 and the neat part is I have a tool nobody else seems to have making me invaluable LOL

Thank you for your kind words! As far as the proper size for your new boiler, the steam "sees" only the inside of the radiators and seems not to care about new windows & insulation - not that they are not important - they are - but as far as sizing your new boiler, not so much. So, I assume, someone went around and counted up the connected load and came up with 442 sq feet of radiation. So, just assuming, boiler A's smallest rating is 396 sq feet and the next size up is 513. You are advised to go to the size that is at, or above, your load of 442 sq feet, i.e. 513 sq feet. Yes, the oil tech, if they are good, should be able to match the load with the CORRECT NOZZLE and set the boiler up using Combustion Efficiency Analyzer Equipment (and show you the printed results, or it's a lie). As to specific boilers for oil fired steam, I do have an opinion (and it is only an opinion - I'm just some guy on ytube). I'd go with the Crown Freeport. But, really, the most important thing about steam boilers is not the boiler per se - But The Installer! The Installer Must Read, UNDERSTAND, and Follow the installation instructions that come with every boiler! I suggest getting a copy beforehand of your chosen boiler's manual and looking over the piping diagram and ask your installer to explain how they plan to follow it. Ask your installer how they plan to clean the boiler after the install and pay attention to their response and check what your manual says about cleaning. Ask about steam main vents (check my other videos on that) and the relationship between air and steam.

@@gordonschweizer5154 Thank you so much for responding! I truly appreciate the advice. I just double checked and I was quoted for a Crown KSB Kingston model. I will inquire about the Crown Freeport. Thankfully, I have an installer who was recommended by a lot of people including the plumbing supply company so I’m hoping everything goes well on that front. One last question, do you think it’s worth the hassle to change the nozzle or will it not make that much of a difference?

You are very welcome. Your installer might be more "comfortable" installing the Kingston & that also might be what their supply house stocks. As I said, it is much more important that the properly sized boiler be installed *correctly* on your existing piping than what the boiler's make and model are. But do check out the Freeport, as it is the same as the Burham MegaSteam, which is, IMHO, the best residential oil fired steam boiler extant. BTW, what type of water feeder is your installer planning on installing? Yes, it is worth the hassle to closely match the boiler's firing rate to the connected load. Any *competent* oil tech should be able to do that for your boiler's commissioning.

@@gordonschweizer5154 I’m not completely sure about the water feeder but I can find out. If you have any recommendations, please let me know. I will be sure to ask all of the questions when I meet with him tomorrow.

I would in the strongest terms recommend a VXT-120 automatic water feeder

You are most welcome! Depending on the age and condition of your boiler, it might be a better idea to upgrade to an electronic unit as you suggest. What you decide to do can depend on the skill level available, as well as your budget. I cannot see your situation from here. The low water cut off (of whatever type) must work properly, or your boiler may become irreparably damaged.

@@gordonschweizer5154 So, i tried blowing it down about a million times, I tapped it, I yelled at it. I ended up draining it and using a thin wood dowel up the open valve I gently probed until I could hear the float click on/off a few times. Filled it back up and it worked perfectly (for now). What ended up helping me was seeing your OTHER video with the cross section of the 67 - once I could visualize it, I was confident that I could safely poke it from the bottom a little and free it up. So you helped me out twice today, and saved me $1000. Not bad for a YT video! I do appreciate the time you took, and I love the way you teach. You’re a lifesaver.

@Emma-g5qe I would not recommend using squick unless it is mentioned in your boiler manufacturer's written cleaning instructions. I recommend reading, understanding, and following your new boiler's written cleaning instructions to preserve your boiler's warranty, to say the least. Clean water makes for clean steam. Clean steam makes for quiet and efficient steam

You are most welcome and thank you for your question. Modern Hoffman radiator vents (e.g. the 1A, #40 etc) all have that built-in water pocket as you correctly point out. However, almost all types of radiator vents seem to randomly waterlog. I do not have a definitive answer as to why this is so. It may be a combination of too "wet" steam entering the radiator due to poor near boiler piping, no steam main insulation, dirty boiler water, or a dying boiler sending more and more steam up the chimney rather than to the radiators. The 1/8 NPT radiator vent hole might be tapped so the vent pitches down ever so slightly or the radiator itself may be off pitch.

@@gordonschweizer5154 I very much appreciate the comprehensive answer, and the time you spent writing it. Strangely, Gorton, Ventrite, Dole and even other Hoffman 1A vents exhibit no problems when installed on the same radiator. The trouble seems to follow that specific vent (I've tried it on other radiators). There must be some manufacturing defect in this particular valve. I'd just like to know what it is, out of curiosity. Anyway, the solution, just use another vent, and possibly schedule bench surgery for the problem unit. Thanks again, Gordon.

Again, you are most welcome! It was nice to get a proper question in my inbox, as this and other channels appear to have been getting a lot of spam lately. Thank you for providing further data on your problematic 1A vent. I have another wild-assed guess in that your vent might be holding a vacuum longer due to differences in construction. In testing vents with my little steam generator, I have seen some ordinary vents (mostly Hoffman #40s) hold a vacuum for minutes as low as 3 to 4 inches of mercury. That might be causing the condensate in the vent to be held-up and causing it to waterlog. There may be another factor in the "tongue" of the vent somehow not allowing the condensate to drain off as it should.

Thank you very much for telling your story! I am glad you your steam boiler pressure back under control. I'd check that pigtail every year from now on.

Dr. Heat is always helpful in getting pipe and fittings apart. But sometimes it's not advisable to break out the torch... Be well. Stay safe.

@@Mike-rm7vf As far as I know, I have no control of what Ads get inserted. Ytube's gonna ytube.