Bass Cage Match: High F to Low F from the Grand Inquisitor Duet
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2008
- Eleven great basses go head to head in this one-of-a-kind cage match. The passage is taken from the very end of the Grand Inquisitor scene from Verdi's Don Carlo: Filipo's line "Dunque il trono piegar dovrà sempre all'altare!" begins on a high F and ends two octaves lower.
In chronological order:
1. Cesare Siepi (1950)
2. Boris Christoff (1958)
3. Nicola Rossi-Lemeni (1967)
4. Jerome Hines (1967)
5. Ruggero Raimondi (1971)
6. Evgeny Nesterenko (1978)
7. Nicolai Ghiaurov (1979)
8. Paul Plishka (1980)
9. Ferruccio Furlanetto (1986)
10. José van Dam (1996)
11. Robert Lloyd (2003)
All excerpts are live EXCEPT Raimondi and Ghiaurov. There are plenty of live recordings of Ghiaurov, but I really like his sound on this studio recording.
I would have liked to include Samuel Ramey, who recorded this in the mid-80's, and sounded great, but I couldn't find the recording anywhere. If you have it, please post as a response!
Siepi and Plishka sings even through the registers and sounds free on the high F.
Yep, they are best, IMO
So interesting:) I feel the same!
Plishka great!
Siepi - just incredible!
Only one top Siepi!
Plishka -Nesterenko - Hines - Siepi - Ghiaurov -
Last summer, I've worked with a tenor who sang with Nesterenko, and he told me 2 things about him. 1st - Nesterenko was the only bass he met who sang one octave lower in rehearsals (no fry tone or weak wobble), and still sing all the notes. 2nd - He drank about 1 to 1 1/2 bottle of vodka a day, and could still sing wonderfully !
I've worked a couple times with a bass here in Canada, (born German), who marked Sarastro down the octave in rehearsals. Both arias. Absurdly good low singing.
@@aarondimoff5180 who's the bass?
Vodka sure does change your voice colour and your brain as well
I just love Furlanettos interpratation! Power and subteltity!
Nesterenko sounds like he could take an octave lower!
@Steven Criscione Nesterenko, an oktavist ? how did you get that ?
@@AntoineGarnier there has been mention by a Tenor who worked with him that Nesterenko would sing an octave lower in practice and can do so without fry
@@antemahoney4376 Sure. But he was not an oktavist.
Actually there is a difference between your range (ambitus) and your tessitura.
In operatic singing, one uses only the part of the ambitus that can be produced with a homogeneous timbre, and that can be heard above an orchestra up to the very back of the theatre. And especially, one won't seek the challenge of singing as low as he can, but where his voice sounds the best, with a confortable technique.
If you had a microphone to the equation, it's totally different. You can use a much larger range.
When you hear the range of bobby Mcferrin, it's huge. But many people actually have such a range between the slowest vibration they can produce and the the narrowest squeak. If you practice everyday to master all those effects with a proper breath, you might eventually be able to use them as musical instruments.
That's actually quite what oktavists do.
They practice a particular technique to specialize in very low register singing, which is not operatic singing. It's not that powerful. It works well in churches, but not in a theatre.
A bass, or a basso-profundo appears to have a confortable and beautiful operatic tessitura in a low register. It's quite different.
And Nesterenko was an operatic bass. Not an oktavist.
In this : ua-cam.com/video/f9IkxjZoyH0/v-deo.html
...Daniele Carnovich was not an oktavist. The sweet natural quality of his low notes (low D) might indicate that he could produce lower notes with such a good timbre. But it's a recording. And this music is written to be sang in little hall with quite a reverb and with very few instruments (even one) that plays very few notes.
There is no such thing as a singer. The is a wide variety of styles, techniques and contexts.
I often see people comparing oktavists to operatic bass in a kind of strange competition for the lowest sound one can produce. It doesn't really make sense
@@AntoineGarnier ok yes that is fair but despite what the true definition the term Oktavist is basically used today as a colloquial term for a Basso Profundo who can project notes lower than an A1 and so even though I agree with you I am basically using the terms as how they are used today
Nesterenko sings low F like a beast
Furlanetto nailed the last note….perfect tone.
For sheer power I have to give this one to Hines. Not only did he have amazing high notes but if you listen again you can hear that he is the only one who drowns out the contra bassoons on the sustained low F. Siepi has the finest tone. I would love to hear a Ramey-Siepi comparison. It is hard to compare from recordings. The only way to get an idea of the volume is to compare the voice to the orchestra.
I love Ramey, one of my favourite singers, I also believe 5 Rameys arranged as a Ramey, a slightly lower Ramey, a slightly larger rounder darker more powerful Ramey, a way lower one and a way darker and more powerful one, all 5 singing in choir, wouldn't match one Siepi.
I think Jerome Hines has the best combination. Of course, all this men were great singers
Van Dam fuori ruolo... 😮😢
Siepi, sentimental favorite. Hines, Nesterenko and Plishka, wonderful. Ghiaurov, the most beautiful sound among them and the most musical. The rest very good. Van Dam never was a bass; beautiful voice and solid technique, but a pretty good baritone.
Siepi, Ghiaurov and Nesterenko are the best of what's on offer here, with Ghiaurov having the most beautiful and even of the three voices, the other two being more resonant at the bottom of the range. Some of these 'contenders' have stupendous top Fs, but then disappear before they even get to the bottom F - Rossi-Lemeni being the most obvious example (did anyone hear where he went? 😂).
I can't get enough of these cage-matches!
If you listen carefully, Van Dam does in fact sing the low F. It's barely audible but it is there. That says a lot about the demands of opera, not only do you need to command over a full 2 octave range, but all notes within that range should be resonant. I would guess many of us can produce an F2 sound, but only a very few can produce a sound at that pitch that can actually carry. And those few probably have vocal training and are true basses/bass-baritones.
Thank you for your ever so interesting cage matches! For me the best: Siepi! He sounds authority although the situation.
I love Siepi and Ghiaurov, Hines is one of my favorite voices of all time and im really amazed by Nesterenko, first time hearing him. But I think Plishka just nailed this moment, I think he is my favorite for my own surprise.
What a wonderful idea! I love love love this duet and the high to low F gives me chills.
Come sempre, Siepi (per me...)
+Antonella Cesarini
dal vivo la voce di Ghiaurov era impressionante.
anch'io adoro Siepi per la sua eleganza interpretativa rara.
per me nel passato esistevano più di 10 bassi tutti meravigliosi,ognuno con la sua bellezza unica.
oggi non esiste più la voce del basso vero/come quella del contralto vero/,i baritoni cantano da bassi.
o tempora o mores.
bodiloto sempre a lamentarsi dei giorni d'oggi
Lorenzo Rossi Non glielo dire che ti mangia vivo....
+Lorenzo Rossi
caro giovane amico,dove li senti questi bassi veri odierni ?
dove?!...
dai dimmi,anch'io vorrei sentire la voce di uno...
oggi di i giovani cantano il repertorio del basso vero con la corda del baritono,è un fatto.
+Antonella Cesarini
come mai sei rimasta ancora viva dopo 2 anni dei discorsi sulla lirica con me?! )))))))))))
Siepi! In addition to the top and bottom notes both being top class, his length of breath makes the first phrase so long: he can hold the top F for ages without the rest of the phrase sounding curtailed. But I liked Nesterenko, Ghiaurov, Furlanetto and Lloyd as well, especially. Nice choice for a cage match!
Cesare Siepi! altro pianeta, altri di ottimo livello
Great stuff! I would put my vote in for either Siepi, Hines or Nesterenko just for power on that lower F!
My choices as well. You must be a brilliant person.:)
Bravo, Plishka!
Bravissimo !
1) Siepi...2) Christoff...3) Ghiaurov....But..."para gustos hay colores!"
di quali colori Lei sta parlando ?
del colore piccolino della voce di Christoff ?...
o, il colore della voce di Siepi ?...
dal vivo Ghiaurov aveva una voce molto più bella da quelle di Siepi e Christoff.
una registrazione e' una dolce illusione...
Siepi has the most even scale of them all. One or other may have a more exciting high or low note (a matter of opinion) but then the other end suffers (see Hines, for example, with the wobbly or "knoedly" top but the fun low note.)
Absolutely!
@@rafaeldeacha9704
Yes indeed. I heard his Giovanni twice and a couple other things. Big, rich and easy. Tozzi also came out to San Francisco because, like Siepi, the Met retired both of them very early. They kept Merrill around forever and consequently I never heard him live.
Siepi! The best!
siepi, siepi siepi.et en plus la voix est tellement belle.
I second that emotion. Siepi was Fillippo II, and his top was solid and so was his marvelous low F!!!! very resonant!!! Christoff follows third.
Van Dam inascoltabile! Proprio non faceva per lui Verdi. Viceversa Siepi resta sempre irraggiungibile.
Impresionante voz.
All are fab, so let's go for the best looking - without hesitation Nicolai Ghyaurov
Jerome Hines !!!! Hands down !
Siepi!!!
Grande Cesare Siepi come sempre note gravi profonde e ampie
WHERE IS GIAIOTTI????
Siepi per distacco, poi Ghiaurov e Plishka
Ah, quel Bonaldo Giaiotti sempre dimenticato !!!
+paolo de marco
si,giusto !
Giaiotti era l'ultimo basso vero!
hai ragione.
Jerome seems to be the best to me.
Nesterenko sounds like he could easily sing it down an octave.
100%. That chest voice is full.
Sure, Hines has the most power, but who on earth would sing the Inquisitor, whom I think needs to be more powerful and menacing? Thanks for posting this - some great singing here! Want to do an Inquisitor line-up?
there is a recording of samuel Ramey in this scene look up Kurt Moll in Inquisitor
I wish there was, but there is not
First of all, you mean 8 basses and three pushed down baritones (Rossi-Lemeni, Raimondi and Van Dam). As expected, the true basso profundi, Hines and Nesterenko, managed it best with comfortable, cavernous low F’s. But I’ll take Siepi because of the sheer beauty of his voice, and his low F penetrated quite adequately.
Dang that's extreme!
Siepi!
I have to go with Jerome Hines. I have to say that Robert Lloyd never got the recognition he deserved
totally agree with you. Hines busts it.
Grant King yeap! Hines is the best!
_You speak Right-On about Lloyd._
dal vivo Ghiaurov aveva la voce più bella.
era il numero 1.
Senz'altro ...tuttavia Siepi con una vocalità lineare e piena in ogni registro,riesce ad essere un Filippo II eccellente,anche per qualità vocale...a livello di volume,credo Hines il più grande...Ghiaurov l'ho ascoltato molte volte in teatro,un grande basso con una vocalità da basso lirico,un po più contenuto il volume rispetto a Siepi ,ma di qualità da fuoriclasse...
Hines was a GOD of bassi profindi because of power and clearness. My love because of elegance and colour is Ghiaurov.
here it is
Siepi and Furlanetto are the best - says MC
Il y a (il y aura toujours) l'irremplaçable Siepi et les autres.
I love Raimondi's version, it's the best one for me! No matter if there are 'greater' basses, he's a bass-baritone that can hit extremely beautiful high notes and even the low bass notes, I adore him! Besides him, I like Ghiaurov's version.
van Dame's low F seems sung by Jean Claude instead
+nicolashrv
Van Dam era baritono.
dal vivo aveva poca voce.
Van Dam should not sing the role of Filippo II . He was a baritone and do not have the low F.
Sorry. He DID not have the low F.
JairFerreira1947 Most baritones actually have F2. It's a matter of how powerful this F2 is.
@@MultiKamil97 Yes, as a baritone I can hit the note, but you're not going to hear it from the back of a concert hall.
Siepi è vocalmente, come spesso succede il migliore. Palma d'oro! Ma Gran Premio della Giuria al FA grave di Nesterenko, una gemma, favoloso!
davanti il microfono ...
e comunque il resto della frase è buttata via, non c'é solo il Fa grave
Ghiaurov il numero Uno assoluto qui !! Poi viene Boris Christoff e solo dopo questi due si presentano gl'altri...Ghiaruov undisputable Number One here !! Christoff follows closely and only after those two there com the rest....Гяуров тук на абсолютно първо място !! След него Борис Христов и чак след това всички останали...
Siepi e' il migliore, senza nessun dubbio, come sempre!
Is van Dam even singing the F?
yes...
I am missing Kim Borg, Martti Talvela, Matti Salminen and Jaakko Ryhänen from this list.
Anyway, these performances here are very fine, no question of that.
found the finn…..
Siepi and Hines are Awesome , the best . Also Nesterenko and Ghiaurov are great . I have no doubt that Ramey does too .
Thank you for the clarification. I'm not too familiar with opera singers.
In van dam's defense, I've heard when he was younger his low range was better.
So Ezio Pinza never recorded the role? He had a gorgeous low D in the Abduction from the Seraglio aria.
Siepi, Hines, Nesterenko, Furlanetto... These are the better ones in my opinion. Plishka would be there if not for his timbre, and van Dam's F2 is non-existent. These cage matches are great, alot of famous pieces are distinguished by one very unique and difficult passage. Hope to see more of these.
Look at the favorite video in my channel. This is Orlin Anastassov, singing "Dunque in trono" live in Solothurn in 2008.
It's hard to judge, because we are not in the theatre and can't understand how loud each ones F was. Its an easy note for me as a bass, but its super hard to make it sound loud enough
Definitely Jermone Hines covered the range with the richest full solid sound, top to bottom. Nesterenko and Plishka take a 2nd and 3d place for me. True basses. All the others may be considered basso-contando, so there highs are more of a solid baritone high F.
Um Siepi and Ghiaurov aren't true basses? What planet are you from?
how can you call Jose van Dam a Bass if his low F is inaudible?
My choice : Ghiaurov! It's a bit disappointing to find out that Ghiaurov's is a studio recording though. I was about to worship him.
Ghiaurov the best
Сasare Siepi.Super!!!
Siepi
Hines
Furlanetto
Boris Christoff forever the is the lowest note I ever heard him sing and I am impressed!!!!!
Nesterenko and Ghiaurov
Nesterenko the best and easiest low F
Hines also very good
A couple I won’t mention are so weak they shouldn’t be here to hear as I can hardly hear 👂 them they are not bases low F isn’t low I myself can sing one octave below that
Grandiosi tutti! Peccato che non ci sia anche Feodor Șaliapin.
Siepi,Hines,Furlanetto.!!!
Siepi e Furlanetto :)
1. Ghaiurov, because he DOESN'T SLIDE DOWN TO THE LOW F. That's not how it's written, and it's a pet peeve of mine when basses do it. Even Siepi does that, which dismays me.
Raimondi and Furlanetto don't do it, either, but I am not a fan of either of their voices.
Of the "sliders," Siepi and Nesterenko are tops.
Siepi
Ghiaurov is the best!!
they're all excellent what's wrong with you people
Nope. Jerome Hines will always be the Grand Inquisitor. There is a video of him performing this at 80 years old, and somewhat infirm. He STILL OWNED IT SOVEREIGNLY. Siepi tried.
Siepi, then Nesterenko for me. Siepi had the best F4 and overall top to bottom, while Nesterenko had a solid F4, but a spectacular F2. Hines and Nesterenko were extremely close on the F2 but Nesterenko was a tad more secure and easy on the F4. Van Dam had no F2 to speak of.
/watch?v=yg43EOYoDdU Ramey as the Grand Inquisitor with Furlanetto as Filippo II.
/watch?v=EeC3aeOzngk Ramey again as the Grand Inquisitor, this time with James Morris as Filippo II.
Furlanetto ftw
Tutti grandissimi artisti ma è necessario, a mio parere, calcolare anche le età. Furlanetto 47 anni, Hines 46, Christoff 44, Lemeni 47, Raimondi 30, nesterenko 44, ghiaurov 50, plishka 39, van Dam 56, Lloyd 63, Siepi 27...A prescindere dal fatto che una "frase non fa primavera" e che secondo la mia modesta opinione che quest'ultimo sia il migliore mi sembrava giusto questo piccolo calcolo^^
D'accordo 100%!
+Roberto Lorenzi
Bellissimo commento!
E di non dimenticare che spesso una registrazione è una dolce illusione....
dal vivo era un'altra cosa.
Quando Ghiuarov e Siepi cantavano Don Giovanni baritoni come Van Dam e la sua compagnia cantavano Leporello.... e i secondi ruoli....
Dal vivo Ghiaurov e Siepi avevano due voci molto diverse....
Davanti il microfono vince Siepi con la sua eleganza interpretativa rara e la sua voce fonogenica.
Dal vivo preferisco il basso Nicolai Ghiaurov.
una recita dal vivo non ha niente à vedere con una registrazione.
Jerome Hines!!! damn!!!!!
For those pining for Pinza try his recording of "Le Cor". This French song ends on a very similar phrase except its a Low D not an F. ( it might be a C) Or you might look up some of my political videos on UA-cam. I include that phrase at the end of each episode. Top F down to a sustained D. (or C).
Operatic basses need good top notes more than they need extreme low notes. Most Verdi bass parts only have low F's. Mozart's Osmin has a sustained D and an optional C in the duet. None of these basses regularly sang Osmin. Monteverdi bass roles have low Cs. Of course pitch may have been different then. Probably the lowest role was in Handel's Italian opera "Aci et Polyfumo" This is completely different music from his English language Acis and Galetea" The part of Polifemo is the most difficult bass role ever written. Nobody can sing it - certainly not me.
I have heard most of these guys live. I even heard Van Dam but I remember nothing of his performance. He sang Angeloti and never came west again.
Patrick Boyle Le Cor ends on a low D, which Pinza aced in his 1951 recording of that song.
@@andrewmargrave7518
Yes I know or rather knew. I said D on my first posting and later said D or C. I also referenced the Pinza video -which is a more of a little movie with scenes and costume changes.
I could have looked it up, after all I sang the D and posted the phrase on all my videos. But I try not to post anything I have to look up. UA-cam is supposed to be fun not a peer reviewed journal. I'm wrong occasionally
Agree with so many comments - Siepi glorious, Gottlob Frick should have been in there, and Van Dam and Raimondi really can't hack it.
WHERE IS GIAIOTTI ?!?!
I'm better than any of these guys. Not at singing but probably at something.
CCornelius 😂😂😂😂😂
If you are a tenor, I bet you are better at something.
_Very well-said !_
Effettivamente c'è chi "soffia" di più, tipo Nesterenko, chi non ce l'ha, tipo Rossi Lemeni o Van Dam, laddove i più eleganti mi sembrano Siepi, Ghiaurov e Furlanetto...bravi però anche altri....
Siepi wins!!!
JEROME HINES !!!!
It sounds like van Dam crapped out on the final note.
f1 not f0 right? like the 2nd last f from the left
Where is Ivo Vinco with Christoff?
Dudes... what are José Van Damm and........... ruggiero raimondi doing in this list?
I'd say the ones who had the most strength thought the range were hines and nesterenko. Hines however did not have a great high F here, so I think his Russian competitor wins here. On beauty oaf the phrase, it's bettween ramondi, siepi, and plishka. Although I like all three very much, I give this on to plishka, because none h
HINES E FURLANETTO