@@creativesoundlab There's a lot actually (and I think it's awesome that you ask for feedback!). But as I haven't watched all of your videos yet, I'm not sure what you have already covered. Here are some ideas (starting with the most interesting to me) and down below the loooong explanation of where this is coming from. • Versatile microphones for rich acoustic instrument sounds (something like "if I had to pick four/five mics to get a gorgeous sound out of most instruments") • A rundown of microphone specifications (types, polar patterns, colouration, transients, response) and what that means for applications of these mics • Uncommon, but interesting-sounding recording techniques (like multiple mics for vocals, perhaps including ambiance and stereo) And here's the backstory: After watching Simon Philipps explain his drum recording setup (with large condensers on the toms, creating a quite natural, detailed sound) I started looking more and more into uncommon recording techniques for a unique sound as my band and I are doing a rather colourful mixture of styles and instruments, and up until now I haven't looked deeply into how to accomplish the kind of sound I love, and maybe even go beyond that to develop something fresh and different. I'm thinking about making band instruments (Drums, guitars, vocals) almost feel orchestral (while maintaining the rock quality of a juicy snare and kick). So the detail and colour of acoustic instruments is really interesting (we use drums, bass, electric and acoustic guitars, piano, flute, violin and vocals). I haven't yet invested a lot in mics, recording most of our stuff with the mics we bought seven years ago to get started (back then mostly for live gigs): NT1-A, two Audix OM7 (which we intend to replace relatively soon), a Samson 8Kit and an AKG D112 (which I find a bit underwhelming), so part of our journey is figuring out what would be the best investments to go from alright-sounding recordings to gorgeous recordings, building a solid, versatile core of a mic arsenal investing something like 1500€ for starters. Next to recording acoustic instruments in a detail-rich, pleasing way I'm thinking about experimenting with vocal recordings, perhaps utilising multiple mics, mixing them, maybe even trying stereo or ambiance micing on vocals. Haven't seen anyone do that. So really a lot of different things, but mostly bringing out that organic, warm character and transparency, playing with the spatial aspect and richness. In experimenting, I'd also like to know what are things I *shouldn't* try in terms of damaging microphones - I think a systematic rundown of the technical specifications/terminologies of microphones (polar patterns, transients, response, off-axis colouration, ...) would be a great thing as well, giving an overview of what these things mean, what they do to the sound, and what that means for using certain microphones with certain types of instruments.
I owned quite a lot 421's over the years, and apart from the HL or sometimes HN-version, they're all good. 421-N and 421-2 are the exact same apart from the connector. the -N uses small tuchel or DIN and the -2 uses the big Tuchel connector. Then there also is the U or the U's to be exact. They are all black with XLR connectors, but they are also kinda vintage. And then we have the 421-II which is the current version with XLR connector of course. The problem with the HN or HL (depends on where ur from... HL= High Low; HN= Hoch Niedrig) is the only 421 that is not symmetric and it has 2 impedances for either tape machine or regular mic-pre. They have very little output on normal mic-pre's and they are noisy if you touch them. They also make a lot of noise near electromagnetic fields. Thats why I wouldn't recommend getting one of those. Apart from that the HN and the N look exactly the same. White with DIN connector. And then you can also differentiate between script an block logo. Script being older. Oh, and the last difference in 421's is the bass roll off switch. Most have the 5-way switch, but really old ones have a 2-way switch without the stops inbetween, but these are rare and really old, can't remember right now when they switched to the 5-way style. Having owned pretty much every style of 421 I can say, that they all sound different. The older the more you can hear that. You won't find two 421-N that sound the exact same. So it's more an age thing then anything else in my opinion. I guess when they were new, the old ones sounded more like 421-II's do today. Sennheiser also sometimes sold the 421 under different brands such as Telefunken and AEG. Sometimes these appear on the market. They are just regular 421's sold under another brand, if you'r lucky, you can get one cheaper if sold under another brand name ;)
I just bought a serial consecutive pair of the 421-N's in Mint condition. I've used 421's many times. The newer ones definitely have more fizz. the N seems to have a much tighter mid and they were almost a super cardioid because polar was much more focus and narrow. I doubt the N's sounded like the Mk2's today when they were new. I would be open to a discussion. Either way, I would be interested your take on a serial pair of the N's and all. I might be the only person with 2 N's that sound the same. Haven't arrived yet. But considering Los Angeles is locked down until Cows meow, I guess I have time to find out. I have no doubt ZZ top and VH1 were recorded with this mic.
Ryan, I cannot thank you enough; I have been undecided about buying a new 421 for a while now (using impulse responses made with them ALL the time), but now I know what to do: pay up higher $$$ for an older model, and suck it up : The 421 does indeed deserve being celebrated, even the new ones: they bring the ‘vintage’ to vintage guitar tone for me. Put them on older Greenbacks (or new 20 watt G12 EVH variations), and you have vintage guitar tone instantly. For modern tones, I would always go for a R121 (highpass filtered heavily). And for a happy medium between vintage and modern, combine the 421 and R121 to taste - the ultimate for MY tastes in recording electric guitar! Now the search begins!
There some other UA-cam videos out there showing a tare down of older and newer 421s. From what he could diagnose, (he knows a thing or two), the built in physical filtering mechanisms were the main differences. He believes the new ones to be mostly superior from a sound perspective. Just built more cost effectivly. So the point I get from the video is to adjust your mic position to optimize what you prefer. Just buy a new one with a warranty and enjoy.
Cool trick! I do almost always the same inclination when I'm using the SM57 alone, because I find the tone very well balanced this way. About the comparison, I think that the vintage MD421 is better for the electric guitar and for the toms, because it lacks those 3-5 kHz peaks.
wow! the white 421 on kick drum! i just bought one, sort of with the intention of using it on a kick, and i guess my intuition was right! I do like my black 421 on snare though
I think both mics are very nice! On the guitar I liked the old 421 better, but on the toms I prefered the new one, because it has more punch in the high end! You can't go wrong with buying one of these, of it's used and around 200$! The new one isn't worth the 400$ new in my opinion! And very nice test! You are one of the best chanels, when it comes to audio-stuff!
Woah! That difference is huge! A few years back, there were tonnes of 421-Ns on eBay that were going cheaper than new 421-IIs, which I was pretty surprised by, as the 'N' is pretty coveted. I have two 421-IIs, but I was never satisfied with the tones coming off the mic because of that high mid, nasally sizzle it has. I used to always have to do some pretty drastic processing when used on toms so that the cymbal wash wasn't colouring my drum sound. I've been using Shure KSM137s on toms ever since due to your SDC on toms video.
Both great mics. Though, this video helped me decided easily to go for the old white version. Found one from 1960s in mint shape. (The old version with the Telefunken name on it). Sounds amazing. Thanks for taking the time to do these helpful comparisons.
Ever tried 441's? I own one from the 70's and it sounds very natural, almost ribbonlike when you don't engage the presence boost. Might be right up your alley!
Toms and bass I think either could be preferred. If you need the toms to stick out more in a more intense song (harder rock, metal, you get it..), I'd say the black 421 gives a little bit more presence than the white! For a more calm setup then the warmth and roundness to the white would be perfect on toms! Yet, worth noting is that placement equalisation does a lot (just like you're talking about the speaker cone placement) so even with a black 421, you could easily manipulate the sound to be more like the white one, just by having a different placement. But overall winner here is definitely the white one :P I really like your shootout videos! Gives direct insight in what oneself may prefer instead of going for "what's good" or what "other people recommend".
Great video, I definitely preferred the older white one. I don’t know if you’ve done a test before on this particular mic, but I’d love to hear the EV 635A on a bunch of different sources in a video. I’ve heard great things about that mic. Thanks man, keep up the great work.
THE original MD421 and MKII are two different mikes, they tried to get something similar to the original, but they failed. Now, comparing white models (MD421-N, MD421-2) with black models (MD421-U models) makes way more sense. White ones are slightly muddier so when recording toms I put them on the bottom heads and keep the black ones on top.
I also have both microphones. I find that the old one sounds softer if that makes sense. The black one is more in your face especially with kick drums. I prefer the black one for modern rock and metal productions depending on the cabinet.
Wow this channel is Awesome I'm so glad I found this channel and sub to it I find the black mic is good for Bass line pick up and the white is good to for hi ends and some mid and bass but wow I really do like the black one … on the track everything sounded good it's a perfect mix . I'm a sound tech or sound man for my church I run the mixer bored now I can learn so much more … I enjoyed the video..
Huge difference and shows why it's better to spend a bit extra and hunt for an old white 421. The black ones sound nasty on guitars but the difference in depth on the kick and toms it where the white really shows its class. Black did sound much better with the bass through the bassman though and they do seem to work every time on bass. Great video man. Would be interested to see a comparison on vocals - 421 can be so good for the right vocalist. At the end of the day theres not much you can't cover with a white 421 and a 441 in your mic locker
MD 421-N, Tuchel (screw DIN) connector. MD 421-2, large Tuchel connector MD 421-HL,dual impedance and unbalanced, does not have the bass roll-off switch MD 421U, XLR connector MD 421U-4, XLR connector and black finish MD 421U-5, XLR connector and black finish (the stand clip has the 5/8" American thread) BF 421 is the same microphone, XLR connector and black finish and no EQ switch. De EQ switch isn’t helpful in making the 421 “stable”. Removing the switch help a lot in making different era 421’s sound similar. And in our experience the same as with or better, and less prone to problems.
Dude! you really want to know how cool a 421 is? Try this Glyn John's with 3 of them, and a loud hihat/cymbals. I promise you this will be right up your ally!
Wow, very interesting shootout. I've always heard people giving love to this mic for various applications, but I always found it quite harsh and fizzy, but I've only tried newer ones. Apparenty not all 421's are equal! The old white model sounds a lot better - I prefer i to the black one in every application. Good guitar cab mic. If I see an old one at a decent price, I'm gonna grab it!
It's soo hard to say definitively that said mic of supposedly older origin, with possibly way less hours on it, is better than a claimed new one that's been kicked around for 10 years on an outdoor stage in the rain. To pay more for a used mic, thinking it's better possibly somehow hopefully maybe? My brand spank'n new one works just fine.
Maybe should have tried a diff 421-II, could be the mic itself? On Kick Drum it sounds like the MD-II had the roll off turned towards S maybe? White one for guitars for sure, especially more aggressive tones, Toms, it sounded very good, Bass amp it sounded good.
got 3 matched 1961 white ones.. they are nice.. but just hate the lacking low end and the size... and the bleed that is BAD. Its a constant discussion in the studio when choosing tom mics.. i often just let the producer decide.. If they ask me to decide (being a drummer who knows my drums and mics) I choose Sennheiser 604 (close in sound to the 421) or sE Electronics v7x (v beat if available) which has the coolest low end for toms I know off while still having a very wide frequency range (40hz-17khz is usable .. listed as 30 - 19k), and with close to NO EQ gives me the sound I hear my toms make.
The White 421has a better sound, and more mids, the black one sounds kinda scooped. Also seemed like the Black one picked up more background noise. PS love your channel bro!
I always think of 421 as a bass guitar mic.. Never a Tom mic, idk, I like some mids in Tom's not just the hard rock thump. But use on guitar, heavy vocals, maybe a second mic for kick/snare. And if it's paired with a dark mic I even use the rolloff switch on full before just as 'treble mic' as it does pleasingly coloured things. Not transparent in any way!
That was pretty illuminating! I wonder how much of this is down to component age? In any case, I think micing the bass cab actually showed that the modern ones do have their uses.
Some of it is probably due to component age, but my old white ones definitely have a different frequency spectrum graph from the newer Mk IIs. Back in the 80s engineers used to complain that the 421s sounded a but muddy and lacked attack. You don't hear it as much in isolation as you do in a mix. I think that there is a place for both.
421-n ftw! most 421s I stumbled upon sounds like your 421-II and I don't like the sound of them, except stuff that might be mangled quite hard (kick, bass, etc)
Good test - I am use these microphone's too. Thank you! One question: What exactly is that for a cool shock mount you are using for the vintage one? It's hard to get a fitting one. I have one from audio technica, good, but yours looks better :-)
This was an eye opener as the black one sounded pretty nasal to me. The white one seems to have a more even frequency curve. Also on kick it sounds deeper and beefier. So this time it seems to be true that old = better, which is often just a myth. What do you think about a shootout between MD421 and Beyerdynamic M88? They are my fav dynamic mics.
Do you think there is anything to the idea of microphones getting "broken in" with age and use? I know it is true with speakers because I've heard it myself, it stands to reason that the diaphragm in a microphone may mellow after many millions of vibrations... could my 421 II sound like a 421-N in 20-40 years? Oh right I'll be deaf or dead by then.
I thought the same. The scoop of the 421-II would get me closer to what I would do to toms with EQ later. Although I have a feeling the differences in mic positioning is tricking us with kick and bass examples, since those differences seem far more pronounced than the others.
I never knew, that these Versions are really completely different to the core! I was really surprised, how good the old white 421 sounded on most sources. Shootout: Fender Amp: For me the old 421 all the way. Sounds way more articulated and seems to fit the Sound way better. Gibson Scout Amplifier: Old 421 again, I think you could place this sound better in a mix. The newer one seems to have more low-end in the tone and a fizzy high-end response. High Tom: old 421 again, there is something going on in the high-end that I really like about this mic. Floor Tom: old 421, seems to have a better attack. The new one sounds kinda dull to me Cymbal Bleed: I think they are kinda the same. Maybe the old 421 is a tiny bit worse, but nothing major Bassdrum: In my opinion, there is no real winner. The new 421 is somehow a familiar sound for a raw Bassdrum to me. But the old 421 sounds somehow tighter. Could this be due to the different placements of the mics? Anyway, I think you could achieve great sounding Bassdrums with both signals. Bass Amp: Close one! I kinda think that the black one would be my choice.
Agree completely with your assessment, and reinforces my satisfaction with buying one recently for using in front of my new Hartke HD75. Of all the combos Hartke offers, the HD75 fits into my mix the best with its single "12. Having no line out patch is the only drawback at this price point. Thus the MD421 ii. My Sterling Stingray Ray34 in firemist silver slams through it quite heavily! For bass cab mic the new 421s are still a fine tool for capturing doom riffs, I promise you that.
@@creativesoundlab Would you care to share what mic you have in there and how you are processing that? It sounds great ;-) Thanks for all the videos and info
Huh. The cream one has a very interesting, live, hot character with that guitar sound while the new one sounds really dead. Also for anything tonal really...
Look who’s here checking your MD421 video. Ha ha! Who know better than you?! Prolly not many... if any. You know, maybe, like a speaker, some wearing in is in order. How much more time does the N have on its diaphragm? Just a theory thrown out there.
That’s a really interesting idea and totally legit. Plausible for sure. I’ve heard one live sound engineer say the m88 was never the same after it went into a kick drum (Returning the mic to vocal duties).
@@creativesoundlab hmmmmmm... Cool! I mean... clearly the materials are way different, comparing paper speakers to Mylar or whatever, but it’s possible some initial stiffness is worked out... and the diaphragm gains some ability to catch more detail and depth after some wear in time. I appreciate your kind response.
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one of the best and most creative guy on youtube when it comes to mixing but especially recording techniques.
And such a nice gentle, genuine guy too...
This is easily one of the best audio channels on UA-cam. My only complaint is I want more videos!
I instantly loved old white 421 when I first started to watch your channel. This is the mic I for sure buy one day!
Thanks and all bests!
This is the most informative, well produced channel on youtube
2:02 this is a great demo. Ive instantly learned a great deal about mic placement, thanks!
Also I have to agree with many others here: This channel is full of gold. So well done and informative, full of interesting and inspiring ideas.
Thanks Dino! What should I make videos on next? Would love to hear some feedback from people.
@@creativesoundlab There's a lot actually (and I think it's awesome that you ask for feedback!).
But as I haven't watched all of your videos yet, I'm not sure what you have already covered. Here are some ideas (starting with the most interesting to me) and down below the loooong explanation of where this is coming from.
• Versatile microphones for rich acoustic instrument sounds (something like "if I had to pick four/five mics to get a gorgeous sound out of most instruments")
• A rundown of microphone specifications (types, polar patterns, colouration, transients, response) and what that means for applications of these mics
• Uncommon, but interesting-sounding recording techniques (like multiple mics for vocals, perhaps including ambiance and stereo)
And here's the backstory: After watching Simon Philipps explain his drum recording setup (with large condensers on the toms, creating a quite natural, detailed sound) I started looking more and more into uncommon recording techniques for a unique sound as my band and I are doing a rather colourful mixture of styles and instruments, and up until now I haven't looked deeply into how to accomplish the kind of sound I love, and maybe even go beyond that to develop something fresh and different.
I'm thinking about making band instruments (Drums, guitars, vocals) almost feel orchestral (while maintaining the rock quality of a juicy snare and kick). So the detail and colour of acoustic instruments is really interesting (we use drums, bass, electric and acoustic guitars, piano, flute, violin and vocals). I haven't yet invested a lot in mics, recording most of our stuff with the mics we bought seven years ago to get started (back then mostly for live gigs): NT1-A, two Audix OM7 (which we intend to replace relatively soon), a Samson 8Kit and an AKG D112 (which I find a bit underwhelming), so part of our journey is figuring out what would be the best investments to go from alright-sounding recordings to gorgeous recordings, building a solid, versatile core of a mic arsenal investing something like 1500€ for starters. Next to recording acoustic instruments in a detail-rich, pleasing way I'm thinking about experimenting with vocal recordings, perhaps utilising multiple mics, mixing them, maybe even trying stereo or ambiance micing on vocals. Haven't seen anyone do that. So really a lot of different things, but mostly bringing out that organic, warm character and transparency, playing with the spatial aspect and richness. In experimenting, I'd also like to know what are things I *shouldn't* try in terms of damaging microphones - I think a systematic rundown of the technical specifications/terminologies of microphones (polar patterns, transients, response, off-axis colouration, ...) would be a great thing as well, giving an overview of what these things mean, what they do to the sound, and what that means for using certain microphones with certain types of instruments.
I owned quite a lot 421's over the years, and apart from the HL or sometimes HN-version, they're all good. 421-N and 421-2 are the exact same apart from the connector. the -N uses small tuchel or DIN and the -2 uses the big Tuchel connector. Then there also is the U or the U's to be exact. They are all black with XLR connectors, but they are also kinda vintage. And then we have the 421-II which is the current version with XLR connector of course.
The problem with the HN or HL (depends on where ur from... HL= High Low; HN= Hoch Niedrig) is the only 421 that is not symmetric and it has 2 impedances for either tape machine or regular mic-pre. They have very little output on normal mic-pre's and they are noisy if you touch them. They also make a lot of noise near electromagnetic fields. Thats why I wouldn't recommend getting one of those. Apart from that the HN and the N look exactly the same. White with DIN connector.
And then you can also differentiate between script an block logo. Script being older. Oh, and the last difference in 421's is the bass roll off switch. Most have the 5-way switch, but really old ones have a 2-way switch without the stops inbetween, but these are rare and really old, can't remember right now when they switched to the 5-way style.
Having owned pretty much every style of 421 I can say, that they all sound different. The older the more you can hear that. You won't find two 421-N that sound the exact same. So it's more an age thing then anything else in my opinion. I guess when they were new, the old ones sounded more like 421-II's do today.
Sennheiser also sometimes sold the 421 under different brands such as Telefunken and AEG. Sometimes these appear on the market. They are just regular 421's sold under another brand, if you'r lucky, you can get one cheaper if sold under another brand name ;)
I just bought a serial consecutive pair of the 421-N's in Mint condition. I've used 421's many times. The newer ones definitely have more fizz. the N seems to have a much tighter mid and they were almost a super cardioid because polar was much more focus and narrow.
I doubt the N's sounded like the Mk2's today when they were new.
I would be open to a discussion. Either way, I would be interested your take on a serial pair of the N's and all. I might be the only person with 2 N's that sound the same. Haven't arrived yet. But considering Los Angeles is locked down until Cows meow, I guess I have time to find out.
I have no doubt ZZ top and VH1 were recorded with this mic.
Among my usual -N and -U4 models I also own an -N4 which seems to be -N but black (small tuchel with HPF).
The MD421 such a great microphone, it's good on everything! Great video, as always!
Ryan, I cannot thank you enough; I have been undecided about buying a new 421 for a while now (using impulse responses made with them ALL the time), but now I know what to do: pay up higher $$$ for an older model, and suck it up :
The 421 does indeed deserve being celebrated, even the new ones: they bring the ‘vintage’ to vintage guitar tone for me. Put them on older Greenbacks (or new 20 watt G12 EVH variations), and you have vintage guitar tone instantly. For modern tones, I would always go for a R121 (highpass filtered heavily). And for a happy medium between vintage and modern, combine the 421 and R121 to taste - the ultimate for MY tastes in recording electric guitar!
Now the search begins!
There some other UA-cam videos out there showing a tare down of older and newer 421s. From what he could diagnose, (he knows a thing or two), the built in physical filtering mechanisms were the main differences. He believes the new ones to be mostly superior from a sound perspective. Just built more cost effectivly. So the point I get from the video is to adjust your mic position to optimize what you prefer. Just buy a new one with a warranty and enjoy.
Cool trick! I do almost always the same inclination when I'm using the SM57 alone, because I find the tone very well balanced this way.
About the comparison, I think that the vintage MD421 is better for the electric guitar and for the toms, because it lacks those 3-5 kHz peaks.
"I like your old stuff better than your new stuff" - Regurgitator
wow! the white 421 on kick drum! i just bought one, sort of with the intention of using it on a kick, and i guess my intuition was right! I do like my black 421 on snare though
Great, informative, entertaining video. Take care of yourself man! 26 was the age I started hurting my back and shoulder.
I think both mics are very nice! On the guitar I liked the old 421 better, but on the toms I prefered the new one, because it has more punch in the high end! You can't go wrong with buying one of these, of it's used and around 200$! The new one isn't worth the 400$ new in my opinion! And very nice test! You are one of the best chanels, when it comes to audio-stuff!
Great comparison and an eye opener.
Great vid! You can see the 421 N used for vocals for Ella Fitzgerald (search "Ella Fitzgerald Live 1974") between some great Neumann microphones.
Woah! That difference is huge! A few years back, there were tonnes of 421-Ns on eBay that were going cheaper than new 421-IIs, which I was pretty surprised by, as the 'N' is pretty coveted. I have two 421-IIs, but I was never satisfied with the tones coming off the mic because of that high mid, nasally sizzle it has. I used to always have to do some pretty drastic processing when used on toms so that the cymbal wash wasn't colouring my drum sound. I've been using Shure KSM137s on toms ever since due to your SDC on toms video.
Also, I hope you're doing okay in quarantine and the back/shoulder is good!
421 white for sure!
Both great mics. Though, this video helped me decided easily to go for the old white version. Found one from 1960s in mint shape. (The old version with the Telefunken name on it). Sounds amazing. Thanks for taking the time to do these helpful comparisons.
10:51 Nightmares
421-N buddies!
best gear channel on youtube
Ever tried 441's? I own one from the 70's and it sounds very natural, almost ribbonlike when you don't engage the presence boost. Might be right up your alley!
The white mic sounded killer on all the sources you used in my opinion.
oh god, the drum mix
Toms and bass I think either could be preferred. If you need the toms to stick out more in a more intense song (harder rock, metal, you get it..), I'd say the black 421 gives a little bit more presence than the white! For a more calm setup then the warmth and roundness to the white would be perfect on toms!
Yet, worth noting is that placement equalisation does a lot (just like you're talking about the speaker cone placement) so even with a black 421, you could easily manipulate the sound to be more like the white one, just by having a different placement.
But overall winner here is definitely the white one :P I really like your shootout videos! Gives direct insight in what oneself may prefer instead of going for "what's good" or what "other people recommend".
Great video, I definitely preferred the older white one. I don’t know if you’ve done a test before on this particular mic, but I’d love to hear the EV 635A on a bunch of different sources in a video. I’ve heard great things about that mic. Thanks man, keep up the great work.
THE original MD421 and MKII are two different mikes, they tried to get something similar to the original, but they failed. Now, comparing white models (MD421-N, MD421-2) with black models (MD421-U models) makes way more sense. White ones are slightly muddier so when recording toms I put them on the bottom heads and keep the black ones on top.
at 6:19 I'm hearing a stark difference in the background noise of the overall kit that the two mics pick up.
Great videos as always!
Thanks Zimte!
I prefer the white one on guitars, but the black one on drums. I'm a drummer and have a pair of black ones on my toms. Love them.
Great video! I'm looking into getting an MD 421 next and I had never heard a vintage one. I think I made up my mind. ;p
I also have both microphones. I find that the old one sounds softer if that makes sense. The black one is more in your face especially with kick drums. I prefer the black one for modern rock and metal productions depending on the cabinet.
Wow they sound soo different, thought they should be the same
Wow this channel is Awesome I'm so glad I found this channel and sub to it I find the black mic is good for Bass line pick up and the white is good to for hi ends and some mid and bass but wow I really do like the black one … on the track everything sounded good it's a perfect mix . I'm a sound tech or sound man for my church I run the mixer bored now I can learn so much more … I enjoyed the video..
Huge difference and shows why it's better to spend a bit extra and hunt for an old white 421. The black ones sound nasty on guitars but the difference in depth on the kick and toms it where the white really shows its class. Black did sound much better with the bass through the bassman though and they do seem to work every time on bass. Great video man. Would be interested to see a comparison on vocals - 421 can be so good for the right vocalist. At the end of the day theres not much you can't cover with a white 421 and a 441 in your mic locker
Yeah I noticed that the black was good on bass as well. It has deeper lows and higher highs...but the white is way more cohesive.
MD 421-N, Tuchel (screw DIN) connector.
MD 421-2, large Tuchel connector
MD 421-HL,dual impedance and unbalanced, does not have the bass roll-off switch
MD 421U, XLR connector
MD 421U-4, XLR connector and black finish
MD 421U-5, XLR connector and black finish (the stand clip has the 5/8" American thread)
BF 421 is the same microphone, XLR connector and black finish and no EQ switch.
De EQ switch isn’t helpful in making the 421 “stable”.
Removing the switch help a lot in making different era 421’s sound similar. And in our experience the same as with or better, and less prone to problems.
Dude! you really want to know how cool a 421 is? Try this Glyn John's with 3 of them, and a loud hihat/cymbals. I promise you this will be right up your ally!
Just got 2, serial consecutive. In mint shape.
Wow. I like the white one more on everything but the bass I think.
maaaaan really nice video! I suggest a more clickbait title... your channel is the best!
on rack toms, in mix they sounded pretty much the same. but everywhere else? wow, the N really surprised me with it's vintage-y chimes
I have the black MD 421 and have really liked it, but the white-N is far superior!!!
Wow, very interesting shootout. I've always heard people giving love to this mic for various applications, but I always found it quite harsh and fizzy, but I've only tried newer ones. Apparenty not all 421's are equal! The old white model sounds a lot better - I prefer i to the black one in every application. Good guitar cab mic. If I see an old one at a decent price, I'm gonna grab it!
Agreed! So weird that they would make a new version of a classic that has none of the characteristics the original was praised for.
@@dinoschachten The reason the MkII came along was because so many engineers since the 80s had been asking for a less muddy, more present 421.
It's soo hard to say definitively that said mic of supposedly older origin, with possibly way less hours on it, is better than a claimed new one that's been kicked around for 10 years on an outdoor stage in the rain. To pay more for a used mic, thinking it's better possibly somehow hopefully maybe? My brand spank'n new one works just fine.
Maybe should have tried a diff 421-II, could be the mic itself? On Kick Drum it sounds like the MD-II had the roll off turned towards S maybe?
White one for guitars for sure, especially more aggressive tones, Toms, it sounded very good, Bass amp it sounded good.
got 3 matched 1961 white ones.. they are nice.. but just hate the lacking low end and the size... and the bleed that is BAD. Its a constant discussion in the studio when choosing tom mics.. i often just let the producer decide.. If they ask me to decide (being a drummer who knows my drums and mics) I choose Sennheiser 604 (close in sound to the 421) or sE Electronics v7x (v beat if available) which has the coolest low end for toms I know off while still having a very wide frequency range (40hz-17khz is usable .. listed as 30 - 19k), and with close to NO EQ gives me the sound I hear my toms make.
The White 421has a better sound, and more mids, the black one sounds kinda scooped. Also seemed like the Black one picked up more background noise. PS love your channel bro!
Thanks Chris!
I always think of 421 as a bass guitar mic.. Never a Tom mic, idk, I like some mids in Tom's not just the hard rock thump.
But use on guitar, heavy vocals, maybe a second mic for kick/snare.
And if it's paired with a dark mic I even use the rolloff switch on full before just as 'treble mic' as it does pleasingly coloured things.
Not transparent in any way!
The white one got the looks ;) And the sound
That was pretty illuminating! I wonder how much of this is down to component age? In any case, I think micing the bass cab actually showed that the modern ones do have their uses.
Some of it is probably due to component age, but my old white ones definitely have a different frequency spectrum graph from the newer Mk IIs. Back in the 80s engineers used to complain that the 421s sounded a but muddy and lacked attack. You don't hear it as much in isolation as you do in a mix. I think that there is a place for both.
think the black on music setting was cool, depends on the pre as always
What's the name of the shockmount again? I couldn:t quite understand the company's name. Thanks
421-n ftw! most 421s I stumbled upon sounds like your 421-II and I don't like the sound of them, except stuff that might be mangled quite hard (kick, bass, etc)
Old is way better.. thanks :)
Good test - I am use these microphone's too. Thank you! One question: What exactly is that for a cool shock mount you are using for the vintage one? It's hard to get a fitting one. I have one from audio technica, good, but yours looks better :-)
This was an eye opener as the black one sounded pretty nasal to me. The white one seems to have a more even frequency curve. Also on kick it sounds deeper and beefier. So this time it seems to be true that old = better, which is often just a myth. What do you think about a shootout between MD421 and Beyerdynamic M88? They are my fav dynamic mics.
Do you think there is anything to the idea of microphones getting "broken in" with age and use? I know it is true with speakers because I've heard it myself, it stands to reason that the diaphragm in a microphone may mellow after many millions of vibrations... could my 421 II sound like a 421-N in 20-40 years? Oh right I'll be deaf or dead by then.
Old school has a more roots/classic midrange.
For toms I would choose the black. To me it sounds more snappy, punchy
Yeah there was some benefit to the black model for sure.
@@creativesoundlab but overall the white version is a killer though xD
I liked the 421-ii better on the Scout and on Toms, but I think the old one sounds better on the bassman and the kick drum.
I thought the same. The scoop of the 421-II would get me closer to what I would do to toms with EQ later. Although I have a feeling the differences in mic positioning is tricking us with kick and bass examples, since those differences seem far more pronounced than the others.
oh god what happened at 8:31 are your cables okay?
I never knew, that these Versions are really completely different to the core! I was really surprised, how good the old white 421 sounded on most sources.
Shootout:
Fender Amp: For me the old 421 all the way. Sounds way more articulated and seems to fit the Sound way better.
Gibson Scout Amplifier: Old 421 again, I think you could place this sound better in a mix. The newer one seems to have more low-end in the tone and a fizzy high-end response.
High Tom: old 421 again, there is something going on in the high-end that I really like about this mic.
Floor Tom: old 421, seems to have a better attack. The new one sounds kinda dull to me
Cymbal Bleed: I think they are kinda the same. Maybe the old 421 is a tiny bit worse, but nothing major
Bassdrum: In my opinion, there is no real winner. The new 421 is somehow a familiar sound for a raw Bassdrum to me. But the old 421 sounds somehow tighter. Could this be due to the different placements of the mics? Anyway, I think you could achieve great sounding Bassdrums with both signals.
Bass Amp: Close one! I kinda think that the black one would be my choice.
Agree completely with your assessment, and reinforces my satisfaction with buying one recently for using in front of my new Hartke HD75. Of all the combos Hartke offers, the HD75 fits into my mix the best with its single "12. Having no line out patch is the only drawback at this price point. Thus the MD421 ii. My Sterling Stingray Ray34 in firemist silver slams through it quite heavily! For bass cab mic the new 421s are still a fine tool for capturing doom riffs, I promise you that.
Great video. How can you include those condenser mics in the shot and not say anything though? Are you shooting out U47 clones? :)
How I can include a trashcan with a mic cable hanging out and not say anything? Lots of stuff in the works.
black just do have more low end to roll of
Hey Ryan do you have a mic in that trash can?
At 8:07, is that a trash can with a mic in it?
Yep, sneak peak.
@@creativesoundlab Would you care to share what mic you have in there and how you are processing that? It sounds great ;-)
Thanks for all the videos and info
Ryan is always earning the Creative Sound Lab name 😁
Huh. The cream one has a very interesting, live, hot character with that guitar sound while the new one sounds really dead. Also for anything tonal really...
They sound so different.
Becomes pointless, if they can't keep the sound they shouldn't keep the name either imo.
Is the white one technically called the md421-N ?
Yep
what are those mics in the background?
will you do a review of them too?
thanks for your great work Ryan.
Yes! WA47s and a Signal Art 47
@@creativesoundlab I also own the white one and love the mic ;)
what is the 3rd mic?
white is better for sure
Look who’s here checking your MD421 video. Ha ha! Who know better than you?! Prolly not many... if any.
You know, maybe, like a speaker, some wearing in is in order. How much more time does the N have on its diaphragm? Just a theory thrown out there.
That’s a really interesting idea and totally legit. Plausible for sure. I’ve heard one live sound engineer say the m88 was never the same after it went into a kick drum (Returning the mic to vocal duties).
@@creativesoundlab hmmmmmm... Cool!
I mean... clearly the materials are way different, comparing paper speakers to Mylar or whatever, but it’s possible some initial stiffness is worked out... and the diaphragm gains some ability to catch more detail and depth after some wear in time. I appreciate your kind response.
What is that crazy gated fuzz on the snare??
Plasma Rack by Game Changer Audio. A fast tremolo kicks in as the snare dies out.
@@creativesoundlab Sounds damn cool. Did you add it in post or commit to it on the way in?
Do you still use that modified pyle mic for toms? Does it still hold up?
No I never really have. It was just one video where I tested that idea out. Right now I’m playing around with the V11 condenser mic on toms.
Black 421 is better on toms
I think the 70s white is better but not $150 better.
Very difficult to tell certain differences, due to the mental torture of the out of tune guitar.