Shimano Ultegra R8170 Di2 groupset first ride: Better than Dura-Ace?
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- My first ride impression of Shimano's second-tier electronic Di2 groupset launched last year but taken a while to arrive on actual bikes. Is it as good as Dura-Ace and does it still offer the performance and value we've come to expect of this groupset?
Dura-Ace Di2 review • Shimano 12-speed Dura-...
Colnago C68 First Ride • My New Colnago C68 Dre...
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I'm most interested in seeing a comparision between 105-di2 and rival etap.
I can make that happen
@@davidarthur yeah you can!
I took the plunge from mechanical groupsets to the Ultegra Di2 for my first electronic shifting groupset. I can say that the investment has been well-worth it as it worked flawlessly and self-calibrating with the Shimano app is so easy to learn.
Dispelling the fear of being "guinea pig" for a new system (12 speeds), the Ultegra groupset has practically been up ang go from day one I acquired it. I highly recommend the Ultegra 12 speed electronic groupset and get a set of quality wheelset for the positive riding experience like I did.
Ultegra dI2 is my baby. So much fun. Love being able to align with the E Tube app, the rear and front derailleur to ensure it’s super quiet. No chain noise. Shifts like butter. Easy to upgrade the derailleurs firmware but if you want to upgrade the shifters firmware you need to use the SM-PCE02 and a windows laptop or go to a bike shop. Battery life is outstanding and charging only takes max of 3 hours and you’re good to go for 1000km! Expensive, yes….but some people spend hundreds of thousands on a boat or a car. This investment makes you healthy. I have the 11 speed Ultegra since 2006. Did I need to upgrade? Not really but it’s always great to have the latest technology. Fun to play with new features.
One of the things I truly enjoy about your reviews David is they’re no fluff, comprehensive and fair… 😎🍻
You can’t please everyone
Don’t try thank you for the informative video
I updated my old mechanical ultegra R8000 to the new Di2 (i never used an electronic groupset)... The old one always works very well, no problems at all, but i am really astonished with Di2, so crisp, so fast, so precise... the hoods are so much more ergonomic... maybe i'm blown away by the novelty, but i really happy with the change. Cheers.
I have 2021 R8020 and am considering 11/12 speed Di2.. did you replace the entire groupset? Or keep the crankset and brakes?
@@billfrigo7602 Hi! I change the entire groupset and sold the old one
@@diegorobayo - Nice! How much did you get back for the used R8000?
@@billfrigo7602 Well... it's hard to tell because of dollar variability in my country... i have not an exactly value right now, but in that moment from colombian pesos to a dollars... aprox. 1.100 US$
I’ve just gone from 105 mech to Ultegra di2. Mind blown 🥳
Thanks for your no nonsense review! I have just upgraded my 14 year old Colnago equipped with Campag Super Record to a brand new Colnago VR equipped with Ultegra Di2 12 speed. I had to get over the emotional hurdle of buying a Colnago without an Italian groupset and your videos have helped remove this snobbery from my thinking. Looking forward to another decade of enjoyable riding on the new setup!
I am also old and need those easier gears.
I was so happy to see the 11 to 17 in one tooth jumps. I can finally get back to my Campy 7sp 13,14,15,16,17,19,21. So happy!
That bike is amazing. Have fun and keep posting great videos.
💯 % - Ultegra vs SRAM Force. That video would crush the YT algorithm. 🙌
I'd best get on it then!
Actually, there is a rim brake version! Also, race chainring are 54/40 for the new dura ace, instead of 53/39.
Thanks for your review. I’ve also experienced the noise on the 5th sprocket (it’s constant). Have tried re-indexing, 2 different wheels and 2 different cassettes (11-30 and 11-30). Interesting to hear in your video that others have experienced this issue as my bike shop says “it’s not a known issue”
Thanks for sharing Jaryn - I think officially it's not a known issue but enough people have mentioned it for it to clearly not be a random one-off. Not sure what to suggest but hope you get to the root of the problem soon
im also having this issue… weird…
Shimano will deny, deny, deny even in the face of thousands of issues.
Mine does that as well.
All of my cogs are quiet but I did notice that on the first ride my 5th cog (15T) was noisy for one second after shifting from the 14T to 15T. This is due to the over-shift feature of the new 12-speed. I trimmed the RD outboard by one click. On the second ride it was better but I could still hear a slight noise. So I have it trimmed out another click. Will see if that solves it on the third ride tomorrow. All other shifts and cogs are absolutely silent. It seems that the '5th' cog issue people are having are counting from the largest cog. So my small issue may not have anything to do with it. But it's just strange that I'm only hearing the noise going from 14T to 15T, as if the spacing between the 14T and 15T are a bit too small. To all those having the 5th cog issue, please clarify if it's 5th from the smallest or the largest cog.
I’m know this a 1yr old video but I just upgraded from ULTEGRA 11 speed. Mechanical 2021 to ULTEGRA Di2 12 speed and it’s a huge improvement! I love the smoothness, shifting speed and I can fine tune the indexing when I use my wahoo trainer! Fantastic upgrade 👍🏻🙌
Dura Ace is not for normal people. As a wise man said: if you have to pay for the DA, you don't need it :):)
Ultegra all the way!
Ultegra mechanical all the way OK!
You can adjust the derailleur on the fly! All you have to do is assign one of the top shifter buttons to be your mode button. Then you can trim rear derailleur, connect to app, or switch between syncro shifts. It's actually easier than 11sp versions.
Excellent solution! I am one of "the few" that does occasionally shift 11-speed on the fly, and I was lamenting the need for a phone app. I use wax on my chain, and the first ride often shifts a little bit differently than it does, once the wax has worn in - - a ride or two.
With a 53 tooth chainring the 16 tooth cog gives you a 90 inch gear which is the sweet spot for a lot of riders. It’s also a gear that’s used a lot on the velodrome. With a compact chain set a 90 inch gear would be a 15 tooth cog. These values are approximate and vary with tire size. I’m waiting for the 12 speed GRX group set in one by.
Thanks David, while watching your review I was getting envious of the roads and lanes you have nearby to ride.
Glad you like them!
@@hcw199 Thanks for the heads up. I'm here in central Michigan, it a grid, all straight roads 90 degree turns to another straight road, no shoulder to ride, cars trucks, rolling coal on you, etc.
My friend has the 12sp Dura Ace, and after he changed his chain to aftermarket one (I think it was KMC chain), the chain dropped all the time when he backpedaled in the easiest gear. Not that it’s such a big deal, since nobody backpedals in the easiest gear anyway. But he has since switched back to Shimano chain, and the issue never resurfaced.
you can still make adjustments 'on the fly'; just hit the function button 2 to 5 seconds and wait for the yellow light, then adjust with the rear shifting buttons, just like the previous gen
Nice groupset. That spider at the 1:06 mark taking up real estate on the caliper 🤌😆
Just use one of the hood buttons as function key. That way you can adjust the groupset while riding.
A non issue really.
You can adjust gears on the fly. press button on derailleur until you get orange light and trim with levers ,when done press derailleur button again and done
"Bimbling around the genteel cotswolds" 🤣
😃
Just an aside... I recently really looked at a brand new Colnago V3. A very nice bike with a very good ride quality - fast, aggressive, nimble, sporty, but comfortable (at least for me). Now with an integrated cockpit for the sleek/sexy look. A bit of a Colnago brand tax on the price tag is to be expected of course. But the bikes come with 52/36, 11-30, and 25mm tires. It's 2022, and I'm not, and no one buying a V3 is, a professional. Beyond the brand tax you're suddenly faced with putting a new crankset, a new cassette, new tires, and potentially a new chain on to accommodate the new cassette, and that's to catch up with what Orbea, Giant, Scott, and many other brands are happy to sell you for 1000,- to 2000,- EU less. It just doesn't make sense.
The pro's are on 54-40 now (Dura ace) so at least Ultegra is saved from that. I think a cassette change is still possible for an easier gear on the cheap, but I don't know this for sure. Cranks are always going to be user specific unfortunately, but there tends to be a decent re-sale market on them.
D.A. quote "Declining fitness as get older" , I know how that is. Keep it going!!
Thanks for the review David, excellent as always. Good to have a review which confirms I made the right choice sticking with SRAM :-)
Got to love how they made the most susceptible to break component of the entire groupset the brain of the whole system. I'll stick with my AXS.
nah i think you're reaching. owe it to yourself to try thr new Di2. Having a front derailleur that actually works is pleasant :)
Having gone through several DA Di2 rear derailleurs, I wonder what’s the replacement cost for the latest Ultegra derailleur? Will having that extra functionality in there make it more expensive to replace?
Absolute bargain, they're giving them away for that. I was expecting a £9-10k price tag given what 105 DI2 is.
Don't give them ideas.
I honestly can‘t tell if you‘re joking
Great video & very informative. ❤️your C68 super bike 🚴♂️👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
You've got a little spider friend on the brake at 1:05 :)
Did anyone else see the chain slap before 4 min mark?
Have been riding this group set for 5 months or so and also noticed the noise in the 5 the sprocket. Have tried indexing up and down a few notches but can’t get rid of it
12 Speed Ultegra does have a rim brake option the ST-R8150 shifters are 12 speed Di2 rim brake shifters. Also 12 Speed Dura Ace has a rim brake option so why do people think they won't produce a riim brake option on 105. I also believe they will produce a mechanical 105 option too.
Always great and informative content. Keep it up 👍
Thanks Alan
Not "not expensive", just not as expensive as Dura Ace. Its still fairly expensive. As some have noted maybe 105 is the new Ultegra. Be interesting to see how it performs.
Looking forward to the review on the Vittoria Corsa NEXT! Think it would make a good winter tyre, especially in the 30mm.
Nice bike and review by the way!
Given that Shimano are still unwilling to admit there is any known issue with their cranks falling apart, I’m not sure we can take it as gospel that they are unaware of the noisy 5th sprocket problem
You too? I’m getting noise on the 5th sprocket too.
Then again, it’s not really a big issue. Still shifts fine under full load.
Shimano has acknowledged the issue with its cranks, it was water getting in through the axle and causing the bonding to fail. They've apparently solved that with the new cranks so hopefully not an issue, but only long term testing will confirm that
@@davidarthur They weren’t exactly quick to do so though, were they? They didn’t cover themselves in glory. I wonder if people suffered serious injury because of the fault, and whether they accepted any liability? There are still thousands of people riding on potentially dangerous cranks
totally agree, their lack of acknowledgement is pretty poor, no excuse for any company to act like that at all. I've not heard of any injuries, I'm sure they would have been widely reported?
@@davidarthur Not sure - if Shimano settled any cases it would’ve been with been with a clause to prevent negative publicity & to discourage further claims, I’d have thought
My R8170 Di2 groupset will arrive tomorrow and will replace my R8050 mechanical groupset on my SuperSix Evo. It's a pricey upgrade but I do about 10,000km a year along steep mountain roads so I hope I'll benefit. I do however plan to keep my Cannondale Hollowgram Spidering OPI front crank so I hope everything works together well. Fingers crossed.
I'll agree that upgrading 11 to 12 isn't necessary. But if your on 11 speed from 2008. Like me. It is a vast improvement
Can see the group stop working if the rear derailleur gets severely damaged or broken. Which happens off good tarmac, on very rough roads bouncing around, or mud/ debris get in there. Now clear difference between just road and all road/gravel/cx groupsets.
I want 12 speed Ultegra mechanical…
Please do the comparison between Ultegra di2 and force tap. Love your show by the way. Excellent reviews, tell the good and the bad. Really helpful.
When does the increasing thinness of the chain with the higher sprocket count translate to reduced durability (ie, more prone to breaking)?
Not necessarily more prone to breaking, but replacement cost of consumables is an ever growing issue... tires are cheap these days compared to chains, cassettes, and chainrings. It's driven me to start waxing chains!
Just ask Rafal Majka. Snapped his chain at the Tour, injured himself in the process, and droped out the following day.
Does that mean they have killed off mechanical ultegra ? I just got a new bike with 11 speed mechanical ultegra. What does that mean for getting hold of spare parts ?
isnt ultegra 12 speed has rim brake version which r8150?
How much does a Campagnolo EPS set cost on your island? Just as a comparison to Dura Ace and Ultegra.
Always been on 11spd 105 and my new bike will be ultegra 12spd di2. Can’t wait to get it and see/feel what the difference is
Hi David, I've had an Ultegra Di2 groupset on my bike for 2500 miles now & I've not come across any noisy gears. Is it possibly an indexing problem? ☺
Great review thanks for uploading
nice review- you can index on the fly as prev viewer noted. overall the improvements on 11 speed di2 are marginal and I prefer the central battery and ability to update firmware all at once on the 11 speed. I notice the slight benefit of smaller cassette gaps with the 12 speed and the front dr shifting is noticeably faster and smoother. Can’t detect any better experience at the rear. New breaks are ok but I experienced some rotor rubbing on the rear and adjusting it was finicky - maybe hadn’t been bled well? New crankset is good looking, as are both drs. I couldn’t feel much difference in the shifter comfort. Can’t help feeling Sram “forced” this upgrade with their Axis which would indicate they are in the lead.
Thanks for review, excellent as usual! I have the sprocket issue also but for me it’s the 4th sprocket not the 5th. Have tried various adjustments but to no avail…..
Same here - frustrating isn’t it, as others are perfect
It's nice, agree that finish is nicer than DA, like the best 90's XTR...but can't get my head around the fact that a rider could 'just' get Campy Record mechanical and it is way cheaper and lighter. Personally don't feel the need to charge batteries other my Garmin to be able to ride a bicycle, but then happy with rim brakes also. The dentist level pricing is moving what was once the default agricultural but acceptably performing groupset away from a new generation of 'mostly broke' riders.
What I really want to see is a review on the new Sensah hydraulic and electronic groupset
It will be great when you compare Sram Force and Shimano ultegra Di2 :) 👍
That 16t is gold.
I just love the prestige of the Dura Ace group set. I have the newer DA9200 group set, but I am still fond of the DA7800 and DA9000 group set performance and aesthetics. I really wish Shimano would release a full polished limited DA9200 group, but we know carbon fiber is now life.
400 grams at the cost of 2,300 vs 3,500 pounds . Idk why anyone would ever get Dura Ace honestly. what was that saying again....
"If you ACTUALLY need Dura Ace then you don't buy it.. i.e. the sponsor gives it to you" ?
and the new 105 12 speed di2... at like 1,700 pounds ? idk - lol i can't see why anyone would pass up that level of tech for a mild weight
penalty - not when aero is supposed to be more important than weight nowadays...
That said, I am running a mechanical GRX810 (ultergra level) gravel setup with a 50/34 ultegra crank and a 11-34 cassette. So I am no where near the target audience.
I absolutely don't need it. But I'm buying it. I also don't need a 600BHP road car but guess what? I also don't need spare bedrooms and an office. Hell I don't even need anything more than cheap jeans and a couple of cotton t-shirts but my wardrobe says otherwise. I might even by another Dura Ace groupset as a spare.
Too cool
400 grams is a lot though on a top flight bike, how much do many riders pay to drop that amount of grammes on a frameset. The same amount of cheddar will be spent to go from standard to Hi-mod carbon, and that tends to save 200g. The price seems way too steep though for both group sets though, will wait until the usual 50% discounts appear then that would be about right...
1:10 the teeny spider in your disc brake!
Shimano say they increased the pad clearance by 10%. Pad clearance was 0.25mm. So they increased it by 0.025mm. Is that worth the noise?
Great video! If I want to change from (52/36 at the front) 11/30 at the rear to 11/34, should I also swap the chain for a longer one. Thanks for reply.
You'll need to add at least an extra link or 2.
Hey David, great vid as always. I was wondering if you could make a video on the pros and cons of buying a complete bike compared to building one up yourself?
Pros: endless customisation options, get the right components from the right brand in the right size/material/colour from the get go.
Cons: usually more expensive than an off the shelf bike for a similar build, requires tools/skills/knowledge, some framesets/parts aren't available outside of full builds.
That's it, but once you start building your bikes yourself there's no going back - way too much fun.
@@jbbouteille4583 So true.
I hate that you can't use the di2 without a phone app to set it up. I don't use apps. Waited a year for the group to arrive 1 piece at a time. Built it up on a TCR at 16 lbs 9 oz. Never used it.
Would it be possible to do a comparison between Shimano Ultegra and Campagnolo Record?
I would be interested to see how electronic shifting compares to ye olde mechancal - both price-wise and performance-wise
I experienced some sound when using the 10th sprocket. Only when riding and it is not there all of the time. I also noticed that the system is sometimes hesitant to change when riding at low speed which is annoying. I had more crisp gear change from my previous mechanical. Finally, and most annoying is that the application is not available to download here in dubai and hence you can not install firmware or updates without the assistance of the shop. The groupset is very good and has some challenges that few are talking about
I have the noise issue also on sprocket 5 or 6. It’s frustrating.
Help! New bike with 12s Ultegra Di2 vs used bike 11sp dura-ace di2 (9170)? Roughly the same money. £5k. Cube Litening c68x vs Systemsix (used). Coming from rim braked bikes so no prior experience.
Thanks for the review. Definitely interested in some comparison between this group and AXS.
I would care about a comparison of the front shifting of 105 vs Ultegra. Ultegra was said to be such an improvement. Then there were several chain drops in the pro peleton and now we havd a 105 di2 with the old style front derailleur. Was ist only due to cost savings or what is going on there?
I think most of the chain drops have been attributed to mixing 11 and 12 speed components? I'll do a comparison with 105 v UItegra soon
Tired of the comparisons to Dura-Ace without the right understanding. 105 certainly performs similarly to Dura-Ace and many times you wouldn’t know the difference. Even the weight isn’t too far off. There are three reasons for Dura-Ace: Durability, corrosion resistance, and bearing efficiency. Having worked with and used iterations of 105 and Dura-Ace for 30+ years, this has always been the case.
I've got one noisy sprocket. Not sure which one, will have to check.
It’s all not that much “better” than 11 speed mechanical, at $1000+ more. Just wait when they stop producing the proprietary battery in the future.
can you ask them why they made the crank arm look worse then the last generation?
I have noisy 5th sprocket, it only does it while riding, not on a workstand, adjusting it didn't help, the noise is improving now the groupset has 1000+ km on it
I have recently got my new Giant defy which has the new DI2 , this is the first time using DI2 and over the moon with it only i have noticed that when i'm in the big chain ring and in the gear 1 or 2 have noticed a slight clicking , have returned it to the bike shop and he adjusted it a little but its still there , Any ideas what could this be ?
Is that a DA cassette in the back though? 4:07
Yes. Cracking groupset
Dave if you ride this bike throughout the British winter you honestly need to be arrested 😂
New bike, getting the 5th cog noise on my 11-34
Won’t classified and electronic 1x be the better upgrade in the future.
Campag!
What them Oakley sunglasses like David ? 😎👌🏻
Fast!! ;)
Will mechanical groupsets be available at all or have they just been relegated to the past?
campag.
There is a rim brake version though?
There are a few things that make "NEW" Shimano "Dead to Me".....1) No cable shifting 2) No rim brakes, and 3) Mandatory gears that I don't need, and wouldn't use. A 12-25 with a 53x39 is all I need or want.
Even the pros use lower gears these days… especially on hilly courses. Any chance you’re also riding a steel bike? ;)
Who makes that bike stand?
Best of the best - seriously... big statement given you are discussing Dura Ace.
I'm still running Claris :)
You can still buy the new ultegra & dura ace di2 12 speed in Rim brake version.......I recently bought this latest groupset its excellent 👌
I don't suppose you weighed it by chance?. I'm interested in rim Ult or DA, but can't find a weight anywhere other than for (heavy) disc. Also, is it correct that the rim group is not wireless to the lever, and is cabled between lever and mechs just like the previous gen.?
@@nellyx1x493 Hi yes your right the levers are wired to the battery which is a good thing at least you don't have to worry about running out of battery in the hoods and the shifting is a little quicker, I forgot to ask the bike shop to weigh the ultegra 12speed groupset but after my bike build he said that the rim brake is around APPROX 300 grams lighter, my whole bike build with pedals and bottle cages came to bang on 6.8kg if I chosen dura race di2 rim it would of weighed 6.5kg...I have gone back to rim brake from disc......its a lot easier to live with rim brake they stop just as well as disc in the dry without the hassle...hope this helps oh my bike is a colnago v3rs rim size 48s
@@fernandodisola6675 Thanks, that's really helpful. So I guess it must be somewhere around the 2300g mark for Ult 8100 rim. Totally agree on the rim thing...I'm running most of old Sram Red 10spd which is around the 1800g mark, so it's a big hit on the scales for these new groups. Never had Campy before but notice that a Record rim mechanical group is around the same weight as DA while now being cheaper than Ult.. might be tempted to go that way.
What do you mean it’s 12 speed but retains an 11 speed cassette? I’m confused. Would also be interested in hearing how well it works with ROTOR Q-Rings
Maintains compatability with 11 speed free hubs… the part on the rear wheel you attach the (12 speed) cassette to.
Patronising. Differentiate what it actually means.
Dura Ace is superior, electric shifting is overrated and disc brakes are unnecessary.
16 tooth sprocket? What? 😛 That's funny
That stuff is wireless but you've never been that bonded...
5th sprocket noise here; it's very annoying
Amazes me people actual want this e stuff on bikes. It does nothing for me personally. When do they start slapping on hidden e motors for that pro speed confidence booster from a simple push of a button LOL
There's a little spider on your bike
One word: noisy. There isn’t a single mechanic able to quiet the pulleys and chainring. Take this out for 30 or more and find out. They have no idea and Shimano just keeps releasing new stuff. Shameful.
I have this bike but with Hydraulic rim brakes....so much better!
electronic, yes. Wires, no.
Is there a rim brake option for Ultegra 12 speed?
Disc only
As David said, no.
Did you actually watch the video??? He specifically addresses this point.
@@pauljozefak7540 I wanted other people to do the hard work and listen out for the snippet of information
There isn’t? Lol.
Then again it’s not as if rim brake bicycles deserve any upgrades anyway. Why waste time on tech that belong in a museum to begin with lol
I like info but hard to get it coz he’s paid.
This video wasn't paid for fyi
@@davidarthur well I stand corrected David.
No worries :) I'll always be transparent and upfront about sponsored videos
@@davidarthur you should probably say coz it’s always assumed you get a flick to review. Appreciate the info, I’ll watch more
@@davidarthur that I respect a lot. Nothing wrong with getting paid for it, I trust you’ll tell the truth anyway. But for. Noobs like me, we know it’s legit. Thanks David 🙌🏻
meh
well i have the 105 12 speed and already regret for the simple fact is what the hell do i need 12 for?? i got a gravel on 9 speed yet i still find that a lot easier to ride, i got the 12 thinking i need the climbing gears well what a load of bullshit trends again i find the 9 speed so much better i think the 10 would be the perfect amount though 12 is a sack of crap and regret already
Troll. No one has 12 speed 105 yet.