Zeb because I have a 36 factory now and hate how harsh it is off the top vs a lyrik ultimate. $250 less, weighs less and doesn't have orange on it is a no brainer.
in germany fox 38 (factory) 1410€, rockshox zeb (ultimate) 805€ all with vat included. You can basically buy a zeb ultimate and super deluxe ultimate with the same money you buy a fox.
I'm from Italy and it's the same thing here. Luckily i don't like Fox Forks, so I don't need to spend all this money. What do you think about Manitou Mezzer, I've tried it, and It's REALLY good. Super stiff and the IRT Is pure magic. The Pro model costs like the Zeb Ultimate, and the Expert a bit less.
Key take away from me is it's a difference in whether you're into riding through things or jumping over things. Without the truly-marginal-gains Kashima, the price is so close that you should pick based on your riding habits.
Especially if you live in Europe where Fox components cost way more than Rock Shox Components. For the price of a Fox Fork you can get a High End Ext Shock or Fork which is made in Italy. There’s no reason for going Fox in Europe unless your sponsored or it comes OEM equipped on your Bike.
I live in Europe and own a Fox 38 Perf Elite. Awesome fork, love it. But my CSU started to creak like hell less than a year into owning it. It is now away with Fox EU for a warranty. It's been gone for about three weeks now. Three weeks in the middle of riding season, cancelled trip etc. Seeing this customer support in EU, I'm planning on buying the ZEB now and selling the 38 when it comes back.
I’ve owned both and prefer the feel of the Zeb, but one additional point is that fox forks just tend to feel more delicate and precious to me. The slightest tweak will kill the forks feel and I notice that after about 10 rides or so fox forks seem to lose their off the top suppleness and small bumps start sending sharp shockwaves through the hands. The zeb just plows and dominates. Low maintenance, feels good every time, takes 10mins to dial in on first ride. No more fox for me ever.
As a fox owner I agree, but every rockshox fork I’ve had likes to bottom out harder than fox. Even when both have same sag and volume spacer setup. I’ve beat the crap out of my fox 36 and it’s running great. Just base 36 (no factory damper or Kashima) and I’ve landed 30ft tables to flat on the thing and i barely felt it.
Give the latest stuff a shot. You may not go back. Latest fox stuff is good but still has the issues I called out about getting harsher after initial 10 rides or so
I found the Fox 38 has more hold up in the corners and good traction and rebound HSR makes a difference. The Zeb is close but sits lower in the stroke but not far of and the rebound is not as well controlled as it bounces of roots and then when adjusted it's too slow. This trial was on my two mates bikes and I tried both on ebikes Specialized levo's.
I found it interesting that the 2023 YT Capra would use the fox38 on the core 2 but the zebb ult. for the core 3. Pretty good price difference between the two builds. Core 3 also switching to a carbon frame.
Here in Europe i got my Grey Zeb for 920 dollars while the Factory 38 costs around 1500 bucks cheapest but mostly retails for 1650 bucks when converted from Euros, ridiculous price difference so the Zeb was the obvious choice for me
Honestly, both of these forks are gonna please anyone, I think I’d go with a. Fox 38 performance elite, the kashima coat is basically all marketing, and does very little to improve smoothness, I rode a pivot mach 6 with a 38, and it was incredible. Also, I feel like rockshox suspension is usually more plush and uses more travel, while fox uses less travel on comparable terrain, but can take big hits better than rockshox.
What do you think about the 38 performance, not the elite, do you think an average bikepark shredder who doesn't really care about spending time with adjusting all that stuff needs grip 2 or is the performance enough?
@@outatime4318 Yes I think a 38 performance would be fine. Before modern forks, free riders were sending huge gaps at rampage and riding crazy lines in Canada without adjustable compression or rebound, all new suspension does is tame terrain and make it more comfortable. I rode a marzocchi bomber z1 and was incredibly impressed with how well it handled in bunker creek near cedar breaks, it gobbled up rocks and took hits equally well, only with basic setup and adjustments. A basic 38 is going to be enough for a bike park shredder, you just wouldn’t be able to tune out slight inconveniences as easily, and might have to satisfy for a (very small, marginal) rougher ride.
@@levis.9408Well you’re right, didn’t even think of what you said, but it’s 100% true and I can live with that instead of paying way more for a bike with cashima, thanks a lot
I ordered the ZEB after watching a bunch of the other videos... it came down to two things -- the ZEB is more plus and seems better suited to a "milder" riding style (me), AND, I also got it for almost $300 less than the FOX 38.
My choice is "tractiony", and besides having 140kg total ride weight (bike plus bod), the 38 is the best fork I've ever experienced as a big guy. Today, I get the Float X2, for more "tractiony", and will have replaced the stock '20 Moterra 2 Lyrik and Deluxe. Save beef with beef.
Price comparaison, you should pick the 38 Performance Elite which as the same Grip 2 damper, without the Kashima coat. If you don’t bring forward the small advantage of the Kashima, might as well compare the same coating. I believe the price should be similar. Then, chose the one you like🤘
What do you think about the 38 performance, not the elite, do you think an average bikepark shredder who doesn't really care about spending time with adjusting all that stuff needs grip 2 or is the performance enough?
Zeb propably would be my choice if not the fact of lack of stiffness in my domain. This fork is almost shaking and I can see here the zeb got kinda same character but less so thanks but will go for fox 38. Thanks for reviewing 😎
Perfect, simple and to the point comparison!! From what I've read and heard from experienced riders/reviews.....If your all about racing get the Fox 38 if your more of a free rider, park rat or send it/hucker style rider get the ZEB. Some other quality reviews say the ZEB seems to stay sitting up/remain tall in its travel and has more bottom out resistance while the Fox 38 is very small bump sensitive (traction) but seems to sit/ride a little lower in its travel.. Im personally on a ZEB Ultimate 180mm on my EVIL Insurgent 27.5, but that's cuz I'm reckless AF. Cheers Homies
ALL MTB VIDEOS SHOULD BE LIKE THIS. Seriously, this sport has too many 20min+ videos that contain a bunch of filler content. Just hit the main points. All channels need to do more of this.
Worth mentioning that the 34mm piston on the reduced diameter air chamber of the fox 38, the fox can come up short for larger riders. Zeb uses full 38mm piston, lower pressure, more supportive.
God Job explaining in short👍 I have a Fox 36 now and think i will go with the 38 because i love to smash straight over harder sections and enjoy the grip and i have on my 2015 bike at the moment.
Actual answer: Do you actually follow your fork service interval (60hrs) - buy the 38 if you don't follow the service interval - buy the zeb fox uses looser bushing tolerances and makes up for this by running a thicker oil that sits between the bushings and the stanchions. The minute any dirt is introduced into your oil it starts eating your bushings / stanchions.
lol my 36 kashima hasnt seen service in like 2 years of shredding and no marks on the stanchions yet, idk how is this possible but im not risking and im going to send it so service shop this winter
Fox 38. I had a 2019 Lyrik and loved that thing BUT...... I can't stand dealing with Sram on anything warranty related. You could have 10 hours on a fork that starts to have issues and they will tell you it is a service issue and not warranty. Fox takes care of me so that is where I spend my money.
huuge thank you, cause my bike usually had the fox 38 fork on it but i'd have to wait few months more. But i could have the zeb so that I get my bike more quick, kinda tough decission but this vid makes it a little bit easier
I went with the Zeb. It was $400 compared to the cheapest Fox was just under a 1,000... If I want to I can upgrade the damper more adjustability. I do believe the Fox would perform better though...
I’ve got a 2020 lyric , that fork is so nice and plush , I’ve heard feedback that the newer ones don’t feel as nice due to spring upgrades that haven’t really achieved much at all , and they might be going back to something more similar to the 2020 model , the zeb uses the similar spring and might be getting the same treatment so there might be improvements very soon
Is there any chance you can do a full service video on the Zeb (similar to your upgrade fox fork video)? Have watched your videos with the fox forks etc and they are super helpful!
That is indeed something we would like to do, but as you might be able to imagine, they are quite time consuming. Hopefully we can work on that as summer progresses!
@@TheLostCo Yeah all good, wasnt saying do it now! :) Would be good to see a service and new air shaft install, imagine they are similar to the fox but would be good to see it and any differences etc, as I have just moved from a fox 36 to the zeb :)
It’s an imossible task, but you did a good job brother. Few of us really get to A to B shuttle test forks like these on multiple laps across multiple terrain types, but I will say some people just seem to get along better with sram damping and others with fox damping. You say they’re similar, but I’m not so sure. Anyways, I think we can all agree these are both amazing forks and anyone who is asking a bike shop “which is better for me?” Probably would be fine with either lol.
I ride the Fox 38 Performace and it's great! Super stiff and responsive, but maybe slightly too stiff, therefore maybe the Zeb would be the better choice for me...hmmmm.
I run a Luna X2 Ludicrous & ride how u describe. But i ride an EMTB, that weighs 54lbs. I am medium skill level. I was going with the 2023 ZEB Buttercup 3 damper.
With how expensive this MTB stuff is, it would be great if Mfr's came up with a way to demo their products before buying like I do with skis. But that isn't the reality today. I'm late to this post, but I just recently (June 2022) bought a Fox 38/170 to replace a Lyrik 170. I did a lot of reading before making that big plunge in cost. In my opinion, the review of the 38 in this video is very accurate. I have the 38 on a 2017 Yeti SB6 and from the very first ride, it felt more stable in aggressive corners and over rough, rocky trail sections. I live in Colorado and ride mostly at high altitude on long descents of 2000 - 4000 vertical feet. Compared to my Lyrik, the 38 is smoother on both big hits and constant small rocky "chatter" type sections. I feel more confident on it, so I ride better. The 38 added exactly one pound of weight to my bike, which I failed to anticipate, but now that I've ridden it I don't even care. My bike still comes in at 30.6 lbs total. I can live with that for the performance I get. I haven't ridden the Zeb so I can't provide an opinion on that, but the stiffness factor was a major consideration to me. And I paid $1000 for the Fox 38. It wasn't easy finding one discounted from the $1250 list price with the supply chain issues, but you can find them for that price. I have no allegiance to any brand, I couldn't care less how fashionable a logo is. I buy based on performance and price. I'm happy with the performance, but the price was painful for me and I've since had some interactions with Fox directly. The condescension those people exude insures I'll never be a Fox loyalist. I miss the days when companies their size actually treated paying customers with some appreciation. I stopped buying Specialized because of their arrogance and lack of support when their products fail. Fox hasn't been that bad (yet) but it seems the more popular a brand becomes, the more arrogant their employees become as well. Just my 3 cents. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks for the comment! Demo'ing out products like these are tricky in general, but that's a whole different story. But that's why we make these videos and offer the level of customer support that riders know us for. If you don't know which fork would be better for you, you just give us a call or email, let us know where you ride and how you ride, your budget, and we'll let you know what we think will be best for you. We even stock the all of the different options, offer free same-day shipping other perks being a customer with us. The popularity versus attitude thing can definitely happen, but that's how any brand with any industry works. As companies grow, they need more employees, and it's just not possible to hire the best employee there ever was every single time. It's safe to say that if there is an employee at any brand that is giving customers an attitude that they probably aren't going to last very long at that company. A manager will be quick to replace them with someone that is more empathetic, helpful and knowledgable when possible. -Mike
@@TheLostCo I wish I'd seen your video before I bought my fork. But I would have made the same decision, so I guess it's a moot point. Still, your video content was spot on. I really appreciate that you and others do these reviews since we can't demo this stuff usually. I'll keep watching your channel going forward!
Great job, but can you also review the lower ends of the ZEB and the 38, I mean the 38 performance and the budget ZEB, I have the 38 performance and I have never seen a review from that fork which actually sucks
The Fox 38 performance is a great fork. It's easy to setup and easy to upgrade as your riding improves. For $25 you can easly add the Fox Lower Leg Pressure Release Buttons. Just unscrew the block off caps that come stock on the fork and screw in the new Pressure Release Buttons. It literally takes like 5 minutes. Throw on a Fox mud guard ($20) and now you are styling. Once you feel like you are over riding the stock Fit 4 damper you can easly swap it out for the Grip 2 damper that comes on the Factory fork. The good thing is everything I mentioned you can easly purchase from The Lost Co. So, if you have the 38 Performance fork or looking to buy one, don't feel like its a bad fork. Just get out, ride and enjoy those 38mm stanchions. Hope this helped.
@@captaintraction4024 when you only have 2shops to deal and you don't like one of them then your choices are limited. If I lived in a bigger city it wouldn't be a problem 😂
for me the decision is even simpler than the 3 minutes .... If you're a serious amaterur racer who is searching for miliseconds everywhere & Money is not an issue for purchasing or maintaining; go with the fox. If you're a weekend warrior who's just out having fun, ocassionaly races & going after the clock is not a priority .. go with the zebb. Biggest Plus to the ZEBB in my opinion ... its dirt cheap to maintain & UPDATE as new tech comes available every year whereas with the fox, you basically need a new fork to keep using FOX yearly updates. As I can't keep spending on new forks but I like to having the lastest tech & I race occasionaly for fun .. I'd go with the ZEBB anyday. If I would race as a part time job, sponsorship deals, etc, I'd go with the fox. Plus the kasima adds bling to your ride haha
Admittedly, I'm a bit of a Fox guy, but IMO, the Fox wins. One of my biggest pet peeves is feeling the front end flexing around in the chatter, so if the Fox is stiffer, has better traction, and is able to be tuned more precisely, that's kinda what the purpose of having a front shock is in the first place. Hard to justify the 25% price difference though - wonder if there's a non-factory version that's more on par with the ZEB.
@@TheLostCo Then you can also get a Performance Elite 38 (non-kashima) with the GRIP2 for just a bit more than the ZEB. Looks like they're all priced very competitively in respect to performance.
I just don't understand why nobody ever talks about servicing these forks. Rockshox is super easy and cheap to service yourself, while most Fox forks cannot be serviced at home and even bikeshops will send them straight back. That means if it breaks it won't be back for 6-8 weeks. And i am not even talking about the cost of service ans spare parts.
Unless, of course, you need some damper shims, as Rockshox don't supply them as a spare part, but do offer a £300 upgrade instead - expensive shim. And providing you're prepared to wait 6 months for a Rockshox service kit. Both from personal experience with a Rockshox Yari. I've never serviced a Fox fork but the service manual doesn't seem to be any more complicated than Rockshox and it also looks like Fox do provide small parts like Shims. I don't know if they provide all the component parts - but Rockshox definitely don't!
@@stepheno.2730ope. Bleeding RockShox: 1)open snapring with snap ring plier2) pull out plug 3) screw on syringe with the adapter. Fox: 1try to get that "snapring" (you can't use snapring pliers) out with needles. 2) pull out plug 3) press A syringe with a conus on the hole and pray that it won't suck air. Air chamber got the same stupid snapring
Hello! many thanks for video. I am going to order new front fork but still not decided which one. Today, I found many videos in those guys were complaining about "fox 38 - is creaking". Do you have any info about this issue? Is it chance if I will be using 180 front rotor instead of 203mm, I can eliminate chance to create this issue? My weight is 65kilos. Many thanks for answer :)
In germany the zeb ultimate is 600 euros cheaper than the fox factory So i would go with the zeb but i own a 38 in the moment and can say my freeride bike feels like a downhiller And god i love it
Nice review! But the real question is? Do you really need a 38 or a Zeb if you already running a 36mm stanchion fork? In my opinion, the 2mm does not really make a significant result/difference. The 38 and Zeb got 2mm more over the 36 but the csu is still the same. With the bikes getting slacker it gives so much stress to the fork. So basically, If the 36 is not enough for a rider, logically speaking the next step to that would be is to go with the dual crown fork. But if money is not an issue by all means get the 38 or zeb! 😊 Just my two cents! 😊
After hearing our 3 minute comparison, which fork would you choose and why?
Zeb cause dual air option.
Zeb
Zeb because I have a 36 factory now and hate how harsh it is off the top vs a lyrik ultimate. $250 less, weighs less and doesn't have orange on it is a no brainer.
@@duanehundley My thoughts exactly.
After watching the video, the ZEB
The BEST "straight to the point" video on mountain bike forks I've ever watched on UA-cam.
Mission success!
I agree, came here to say the same thing. Welll done.
The zeb, like riding on a cloud ☁️
I love clouds 😁😁
Agree! Agree! Agree!
Yesss😍
in germany fox 38 (factory) 1410€, rockshox zeb (ultimate) 805€ all with vat included. You can basically buy a zeb ultimate and super deluxe ultimate with the same money you buy a fox.
My orange Fox 38 Factory was 1659€. Its crazy, but it looks so good with the Kashima coating.
Not in USA. But if it was that big of difference, then it's a now brainer, super deluxe, or new rims, brakes , etc....
Theres only about a 10% price difference here in Australia
Yeah it’s crazy, for us in Germany there’s almost no viable alternative to RockShox, Fox is only an option on complete bikes
I'm from Italy and it's the same thing here. Luckily i don't like Fox Forks, so I don't need to spend all this money. What do you think about Manitou Mezzer, I've tried it, and It's REALLY good. Super stiff and the IRT Is pure magic. The Pro model costs like the Zeb Ultimate, and the Expert a bit less.
Honestly, if it's this close, I see no reason to go with the more expensive fork unless you have a deep affinity for Fox.
Key take away from me is it's a difference in whether you're into riding through things or jumping over things. Without the truly-marginal-gains Kashima, the price is so close that you should pick based on your riding habits.
Especially if you live in Europe where Fox components cost way more than Rock Shox Components.
For the price of a Fox Fork you can get a High End Ext Shock or Fork which is made in Italy.
There’s no reason for going Fox in Europe unless your sponsored or it comes OEM equipped on your Bike.
You should go with Öhlins 38 from Sweden if you are from Europé.
Fox stuff is cheaper and easier to service from my experience. Seals and fluids are cheaper. I live in California so parts are at my local bike shop
@@kx7kx782 If your money falls from trees you can get Öhlins, that stuff is expensive but so nice
Great job dude. It doesn’t take 30 minutes to get a good review of any product. Again, great job. 🤙
That's what we thought too! We could go on about some other points, but these are the most important. Glad you found it helpful!
Still watching this even after 2 years I can’t still afford it, Suntour XCM for now haha 🤙🏼
Same XCM30 120mm preload only :( also the stansions wobble most likely due to improperly installed bushing.
I live in Europe and own a Fox 38 Perf Elite. Awesome fork, love it. But my CSU started to creak like hell less than a year into owning it. It is now away with Fox EU for a warranty. It's been gone for about three weeks now. Three weeks in the middle of riding season, cancelled trip etc. Seeing this customer support in EU, I'm planning on buying the ZEB now and selling the 38 when it comes back.
That was the best comparison I’ve watched
I’ve owned both and prefer the feel of the Zeb, but one additional point is that fox forks just tend to feel more delicate and precious to me. The slightest tweak will kill the forks feel and I notice that after about 10 rides or so fox forks seem to lose their off the top suppleness and small bumps start sending sharp shockwaves through the hands.
The zeb just plows and dominates. Low maintenance, feels good every time, takes 10mins to dial in on first ride. No more fox for me ever.
As a fox owner I agree, but every rockshox fork I’ve had likes to bottom out harder than fox. Even when both have same sag and volume spacer setup. I’ve beat the crap out of my fox 36 and it’s running great. Just base 36 (no factory damper or Kashima) and I’ve landed 30ft tables to flat on the thing and i barely felt it.
Have you tried a rs ultimate fork made within the past 18 months with charger 2.1 damper?
@@kene8571 no…
@@kene8571 bu I also haven’t tried a factory 4 damper in a 36
Give the latest stuff a shot. You may not go back. Latest fox stuff is good but still has the issues I called out about getting harsher after initial 10 rides or so
this is actually useful, thanks!!!!!! im going for the Zeb just fits my stile of riding.
You won't be dissapointed!
I found the Fox 38 has more hold up in the corners and good traction and rebound HSR makes a difference. The Zeb is close but sits lower in the stroke but not far of and the rebound is not as well controlled as it bounces of roots and then when adjusted it's too slow. This trial was on my two mates bikes and I tried both on ebikes Specialized levo's.
Im riding now Lyrik 160 and definatily going next with Zeb. I like more riding than tuning
I am 6'4" 235 and have a Fox Factory 38 on my Commecal Clash Signature and its an amazing fork. It was a bit to set up but so worth the time it took.
Agree
I found it interesting that the 2023 YT Capra would use the fox38 on the core 2 but the zebb ult. for the core 3. Pretty good price difference between the two builds. Core 3 also switching to a carbon frame.
Here in Europe i got my Grey Zeb for 920 dollars while the Factory 38 costs around 1500 bucks cheapest but mostly retails for 1650 bucks when converted from Euros, ridiculous price difference so the Zeb was the obvious choice for me
Honestly, both of these forks are gonna please anyone, I think I’d go with a. Fox 38 performance elite, the kashima coat is basically all marketing, and does very little to improve smoothness, I rode a pivot mach 6 with a 38, and it was incredible. Also, I feel like rockshox suspension is usually more plush and uses more travel, while fox uses less travel on comparable terrain, but can take big hits better than rockshox.
What do you think about the 38 performance, not the elite, do you think an average bikepark shredder who doesn't really care about spending time with adjusting all that stuff needs grip 2 or is the performance enough?
@@outatime4318 Yes I think a 38 performance would be fine. Before modern forks, free riders were sending huge gaps at rampage and riding crazy lines in Canada without adjustable compression or rebound, all new suspension does is tame terrain and make it more comfortable. I rode a marzocchi bomber z1 and was incredibly impressed with how well it handled in bunker creek near cedar breaks, it gobbled up rocks and took hits equally well, only with basic setup and adjustments. A basic 38 is going to be enough for a bike park shredder, you just wouldn’t be able to tune out slight inconveniences as easily, and might have to satisfy for a (very small, marginal) rougher ride.
@@levis.9408Well you’re right, didn’t even think of what you said, but it’s 100% true and I can live with that instead of paying way more for a bike with cashima, thanks a lot
I have a 170mm Zeb select+ on my '21 Levo and a 210/55 DVO Topaz. The bike handles SO much better both plonking and at speed.
I've been looking forward to this video, and I was not dissapointed!
I love how you're never on focus):
Great videos. I started watching them today, this is like the 15th I've watched. 👌
i wish there were videos on youtube about the lower end models of these forks such as the performance grip and zeb r and fox 36 rythm
And Marzocchi Z1 coil.
Great review and love the way you structured the video with a timer. Well done
Great comparisson in three minutes! I will now probaly go with the ZEB ultimate
The fox sounds more my style. Great quick take on two great forks.
I ordered the ZEB after watching a bunch of the other videos... it came down to two things -- the ZEB is more plus and seems better suited to a "milder" riding style (me), AND, I also got it for almost $300 less than the FOX 38.
My choice is "tractiony", and besides having 140kg total ride weight (bike plus bod), the 38 is the best fork I've ever experienced as a big guy. Today, I get the Float X2, for more "tractiony", and will have replaced the stock '20 Moterra 2 Lyrik and Deluxe. Save beef with beef.
Straight lining through chunk at high speed in my MO so I guess the Fox 38 would be my go to.
Price comparaison, you should pick the 38 Performance Elite which as the same Grip 2 damper, without the Kashima coat.
If you don’t bring forward the small advantage of the Kashima, might as well compare the same coating.
I believe the price should be similar.
Then, chose the one you like🤘
What do you think about the 38 performance, not the elite, do you think an average bikepark shredder who doesn't really care about spending time with adjusting all that stuff needs grip 2 or is the performance enough?
Finally! A review under 20 minutes. Subscribed!
Im glad I went with the core 3 yt with the 38 instead of the core 4 with the zeb for the bike park.
Amazing work, best MTB review channel out there :)
I would like to see next year ZEB with red ⭕️ lover legs. That would be awesome looking fork.
and 51mm offset. They make one but only for full builds, not stand alone product
BoXXer red😎🤘
@@artoutlawphoto buy a csu from rockshox
red lowers are horrible.
@@jordanmackay3568 sure they dont go well with a blue bike, but in most cases i think they look sick.
Zeb propably would be my choice if not the fact of lack of stiffness in my domain. This fork is almost shaking and I can see here the zeb got kinda same character but less so thanks but will go for fox 38. Thanks for reviewing 😎
Perfect, simple and to the point comparison!!
From what I've read and heard from experienced riders/reviews.....If your all about racing get the Fox 38 if your more of a free rider, park rat or send it/hucker style rider get the ZEB. Some other quality reviews say the ZEB seems to stay sitting up/remain tall in its travel and has more bottom out resistance while the Fox 38 is very small bump sensitive (traction) but seems to sit/ride a little lower in its travel.. Im personally on a ZEB Ultimate 180mm on my EVIL Insurgent 27.5, but that's cuz I'm reckless AF. Cheers Homies
ALL MTB VIDEOS SHOULD BE LIKE THIS. Seriously, this sport has too many 20min+ videos that contain a bunch of filler content. Just hit the main points. All channels need to do more of this.
Straight to the point! Strictly business in this video 😎 -Tor
Worth mentioning that the 34mm piston on the reduced diameter air chamber of the fox 38, the fox can come up short for larger riders. Zeb uses full 38mm piston, lower pressure, more supportive.
Fantastic video, super helpful for everyone in the market for these forks.
God Job explaining in short👍
I have a Fox 36 now and think i will go with the 38 because i love to smash straight over harder sections and enjoy the grip and i have on my 2015 bike at the moment.
Actual answer: Do you actually follow your fork service interval (60hrs) - buy the 38
if you don't follow the service interval - buy the zeb
fox uses looser bushing tolerances and makes up for this by running a thicker oil that sits between the bushings and the stanchions. The minute any dirt is introduced into your oil it starts eating your bushings / stanchions.
lol my 36 kashima hasnt seen service in like 2 years of shredding and no marks on the stanchions yet, idk how is this possible but im not risking and im going to send it so service shop this winter
Finally, I have been searching for this video for weeks!!🤟
I have found that if you let a tad of air out and throw one more token in the Zeb it’s just as “traction-y” as the 38
Fox 38.
I had a 2019 Lyrik and loved that thing BUT...... I can't stand dealing with Sram on anything warranty related. You could have 10 hours on a fork that starts to have issues and they will tell you it is a service issue and not warranty. Fox takes care of me so that is where I spend my money.
Great job! I was wide awake all thru the video!
huuge thank you, cause my bike usually had the fox 38 fork on it but i'd have to wait few months more. But i could have the zeb so that I get my bike more quick, kinda tough decission but this vid makes it a little bit easier
I went with the Zeb.
It was $400 compared to the cheapest Fox was just under a 1,000...
If I want to I can upgrade the damper more adjustability.
I do believe the Fox would perform better though...
I’ve got a 2020 lyric , that fork is so nice and plush ,
I’ve heard feedback that the newer ones don’t feel as nice due to spring upgrades that haven’t really achieved much at all , and they might be going back to something more similar to the 2020 model , the zeb uses the similar spring and might be getting the same treatment so there might be improvements very soon
best comparison ever. make this video again for next items..
this video was perfect, thank you!
Is there any chance you can do a full service video on the Zeb (similar to your upgrade fox fork video)? Have watched your videos with the fox forks etc and they are super helpful!
That is indeed something we would like to do, but as you might be able to imagine, they are quite time consuming. Hopefully we can work on that as summer progresses!
@@TheLostCo Yeah all good, wasnt saying do it now! :) Would be good to see a service and new air shaft install, imagine they are similar to the fox but would be good to see it and any differences etc, as I have just moved from a fox 36 to the zeb :)
It’s an imossible task, but you did a good job brother.
Few of us really get to A to B shuttle test forks like these on multiple laps across multiple terrain types, but I will say some people just seem to get along better with sram damping and others with fox damping. You say they’re similar, but I’m not so sure.
Anyways, I think we can all agree these are both amazing forks and anyone who is asking a bike shop “which is better for me?” Probably would be fine with either lol.
I ride the Fox 38 Performace and it's great! Super stiff and responsive, but maybe slightly too stiff, therefore maybe the Zeb would be the better choice for me...hmmmm.
I run a Luna X2 Ludicrous & ride how u describe. But i ride an EMTB, that weighs 54lbs. I am medium skill level. I was going with the 2023 ZEB Buttercup 3 damper.
Great concept for this video. Great job !!
With how expensive this MTB stuff is, it would be great if Mfr's came up with a way to demo their products before buying like I do with skis. But that isn't the reality today. I'm late to this post, but I just recently (June 2022) bought a Fox 38/170 to replace a Lyrik 170. I did a lot of reading before making that big plunge in cost. In my opinion, the review of the 38 in this video is very accurate. I have the 38 on a 2017 Yeti SB6 and from the very first ride, it felt more stable in aggressive corners and over rough, rocky trail sections. I live in Colorado and ride mostly at high altitude on long descents of 2000 - 4000 vertical feet. Compared to my Lyrik, the 38 is smoother on both big hits and constant small rocky "chatter" type sections. I feel more confident on it, so I ride better. The 38 added exactly one pound of weight to my bike, which I failed to anticipate, but now that I've ridden it I don't even care. My bike still comes in at 30.6 lbs total. I can live with that for the performance I get. I haven't ridden the Zeb so I can't provide an opinion on that, but the stiffness factor was a major consideration to me. And I paid $1000 for the Fox 38. It wasn't easy finding one discounted from the $1250 list price with the supply chain issues, but you can find them for that price. I have no allegiance to any brand, I couldn't care less how fashionable a logo is. I buy based on performance and price. I'm happy with the performance, but the price was painful for me and I've since had some interactions with Fox directly. The condescension those people exude insures I'll never be a Fox loyalist. I miss the days when companies their size actually treated paying customers with some appreciation. I stopped buying Specialized because of their arrogance and lack of support when their products fail. Fox hasn't been that bad (yet) but it seems the more popular a brand becomes, the more arrogant their employees become as well. Just my 3 cents. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks for the comment! Demo'ing out products like these are tricky in general, but that's a whole different story. But that's why we make these videos and offer the level of customer support that riders know us for. If you don't know which fork would be better for you, you just give us a call or email, let us know where you ride and how you ride, your budget, and we'll let you know what we think will be best for you. We even stock the all of the different options, offer free same-day shipping other perks being a customer with us.
The popularity versus attitude thing can definitely happen, but that's how any brand with any industry works. As companies grow, they need more employees, and it's just not possible to hire the best employee there ever was every single time. It's safe to say that if there is an employee at any brand that is giving customers an attitude that they probably aren't going to last very long at that company. A manager will be quick to replace them with someone that is more empathetic, helpful and knowledgable when possible.
-Mike
@@TheLostCo I wish I'd seen your video before I bought my fork. But I would have made the same decision, so I guess it's a moot point. Still, your video content was spot on. I really appreciate that you and others do these reviews since we can't demo this stuff usually. I'll keep watching your channel going forward!
Excellent review Mike. Great to see a comparison like this in such a short amount of time. Mike you gotta go easy on the Starbucks lol
An actionable comparison Ivs. the typical wishy washy I don't want to offend any vendor that sent me free stuff review normally seen. Tyvm.
So concise, great vid!
this guy deserves a raise :)
How about things that actually make a difference like reliability and service costs?
This is how videos should be. What I gathered is both forks are way above my skill level 😂
Great job, but can you also review the lower ends of the ZEB and the 38, I mean the 38 performance and the budget ZEB, I have the 38 performance and I have never seen a review from that fork which actually sucks
The performance 38 is basically the same just not kashima on the stanchions with a very minimal difference on feel
The Fox 38 performance is a great fork. It's easy to setup and easy to upgrade as your riding improves. For $25 you can easly add the Fox Lower Leg Pressure Release Buttons. Just unscrew the block off caps that come stock on the fork and screw in the new Pressure Release Buttons. It literally takes like 5 minutes. Throw on a Fox mud guard ($20) and now you are styling. Once you feel like you are over riding the stock Fit 4 damper you can easly swap it out for the Grip 2 damper that comes on the Factory fork. The good thing is everything I mentioned you can easly purchase from The Lost Co. So, if you have the 38 Performance fork or looking to buy one, don't feel like its a bad fork. Just get out, ride and enjoy those 38mm stanchions. Hope this helped.
Deciding factor for me is maintenance, which one can my local shop fix. For me I'll be taking the zeb
If your local shop can't fix BOTH of these forks, at least a lowers service with new seals, then you need to find a different shop
@@captaintraction4024 when you only have 2shops to deal and you don't like one of them then your choices are limited. If I lived in a bigger city it wouldn't be a problem 😂
for me the decision is even simpler than the 3 minutes .... If you're a serious amaterur racer who is searching for miliseconds everywhere & Money is not an issue for purchasing or maintaining; go with the fox. If you're a weekend warrior who's just out having fun, ocassionaly races & going after the clock is not a priority .. go with the zebb. Biggest Plus to the ZEBB in my opinion ... its dirt cheap to maintain & UPDATE as new tech comes available every year whereas with the fox, you basically need a new fork to keep using FOX yearly updates.
As I can't keep spending on new forks but I like to having the lastest tech & I race occasionaly for fun .. I'd go with the ZEBB anyday. If I would race as a part time job, sponsorship deals, etc, I'd go with the fox. Plus the kasima adds bling to your ride haha
Ok, great comparison, so when will either fork be available for purchase?
We have quite a few ZEB's right now!
38 cuz the airspring assembly make a coil conversion reversable! Smashpot all the way 🤘
Excellent Vid 😎 I Run A 160Z1 On My CF Warden Its Perfect ..... LW Rider 😃
🤣 Give this guy a broadcast job. ❤ this channel - keep up the good work🍺
Hahaha first time I've heard that! I'll email NBC and see if they need a news host 😂
-Mike
I’ve got the fox 38 and it’s the dream! 👌
Take a shot every time he says "super" lol good information though
Any chance we could get a new version of this now that the Charger 3.0 Zeb has released?
We'll try to get one up! I'm still riding my 38 and haven't spent much time on the new ZEB, but a few of the guys here at the shop have.
-Mike
What about the 38 performance vs the 38 factory, or the 38 performance vs the zeb select
great job dude
so good explanation
easy and fast thanks
Easy and fast like B-Line in Whistler 🤘
-Mike
Hey, are you interested in reviewing Magicycle bike?
Honestly i’m just riding the 38 because i get them cheaper, if i had to pay full price i would probably go for the zeb
Recompare these models with the new 2023 Zeb
super well done video good job
Interesting. I hope my new Domain RC 170mm for my 29" Sight VLT A1 is almost as god as it's ZEB big brother.
If you wanna flex your forks, go Fox and show that kashima Coating. Lowkey flex, go Zebb. So get both😅
Admittedly, I'm a bit of a Fox guy, but IMO, the Fox wins. One of my biggest pet peeves is feeling the front end flexing around in the chatter, so if the Fox is stiffer, has better traction, and is able to be tuned more precisely, that's kinda what the purpose of having a front shock is in the first place. Hard to justify the 25% price difference though - wonder if there's a non-factory version that's more on par with the ZEB.
Fox does have a Performance Series 38 that is a tad cheaper than the ZEB, but it has the GRIP Damper.
@@TheLostCo Then you can also get a Performance Elite 38 (non-kashima) with the GRIP2 for just a bit more than the ZEB. Looks like they're all priced very competitively in respect to performance.
Badda bing, badda boom! Now to decide on color....
I just don't understand why nobody ever talks about servicing these forks. Rockshox is super easy and cheap to service yourself, while most Fox forks cannot be serviced at home and even bikeshops will send them straight back. That means if it breaks it won't be back for 6-8 weeks. And i am not even talking about the cost of service ans spare parts.
Unless, of course, you need some damper shims, as Rockshox don't supply them as a spare part, but do offer a £300 upgrade instead - expensive shim. And providing you're prepared to wait 6 months for a Rockshox service kit. Both from personal experience with a Rockshox Yari. I've never serviced a Fox fork but the service manual doesn't seem to be any more complicated than Rockshox and it also looks like Fox do provide small parts like Shims. I don't know if they provide all the component parts - but Rockshox definitely don't!
@@brizi2003 fox is way easier to service and get parts for here in the US.
Fox is superior quality, most owners won't keep their bikes long enough to worry about service
@@fzr1000981so you ride your bike less then 1year or 125hours before selling it?
@@stepheno.2730ope. Bleeding RockShox: 1)open snapring with snap ring plier2) pull out plug 3) screw on syringe with the adapter. Fox: 1try to get that "snapring" (you can't use snapring pliers) out with needles. 2) pull out plug 3) press A syringe with a conus on the hole and pray that it won't suck air.
Air chamber got the same stupid snapring
awesome review and only 3mins !!!
Hello! many thanks for video. I am going to order new front fork but still not decided which one. Today, I found many videos in those guys were complaining about "fox 38 - is creaking".
Do you have any info about this issue? Is it chance if I will be using 180 front rotor instead of 203mm, I can eliminate chance to create this issue? My weight is 65kilos.
Many thanks for answer :)
For me? For me please make a video about comparing the RS SID and the Fox 32.
Both are great. You propably (like 99,9%) don't need either of them. Here in 10 seconds.
So many will choose the Fox because it looks so great. I truly think Rockshox would dominate Fox without the beauty of Kashima.
Thanks for breaking it down so that even a baboon could understand. I'd go for the Zeb.
Glad we could help! The 38 v ZEB is a comparison that does not need to be over explained!
Is the mezzer pro just as good or better?
RockShox Zeb @ Redbull Rampage. Zeb is also cheaper, and easier to setup.
Think I’d prefer a zeb, suits my riding style better.
Sooooo it comes down to brand loyalty and the deciding factor is if you care about Ka$h.
great vid! thank you!. quickly stating the weight of each.. would have been perfect tho xd. still, thanks.
In germany the zeb ultimate is 600 euros cheaper than the fox factory
So i would go with the zeb but i own a 38 in the moment and can say my freeride bike feels like a downhiller
And god i love it
What about price points... It's a huge advantage for the ZEB
Wonder which fork is sent in for rebuilds or warranty claims more?
Rockshox hands down
which fork is right for you? the one that is in stock...
Lyrik Select is good enough to me... Why spend plus 650usd to get stuff that I'll never see the difference!?
They are both great but i prefer Zeb beause i can service it easy myself without special tools
I have the 38 and I feel like I can hit anything with it
Nice review! But the real question is? Do you really need a 38 or a Zeb if you already running a 36mm stanchion fork? In my opinion, the 2mm does not really make a significant result/difference. The 38 and Zeb got 2mm more over the 36 but the csu is still the same. With the bikes getting slacker it gives so much stress to the fork. So basically, If the 36 is not enough for a rider, logically speaking the next step to that would be is to go with the dual crown fork. But if money is not an issue by all means get the 38 or zeb! 😊 Just my two cents! 😊