The No 1, Mk III* and the No4, Mk I*: CQB Shooting of World War Two -PART TWO-
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
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The Vickers MG Site... vickersmg.blog
Mike, from BotR, and I continue our examination of techniques for Close Quarter Shooting as taught in period manuals of WWII.
For your Martini and Snider needs email Martyn at xringservices@yahoo.com
And for further reading on all British Victorian (and earlier) arms stop by the British Militaria Forum and say hello. britishmilitari...
Ah yes, the ubiquitous MacBook, No.1 Mk.III pro*
I see someone has improved on my facebook comment :D
To be replaced with the No 4, Mk I with the little stubby hard drive...
Macbook, No.4, Mk.1, Retina display.
My dad was taught to shoot from the hip in his training for the Vietnam War.
You'd be out on patrol for hours at a time, even days away from base, and having the rifle always up at your shoulder just wasn't practical unless you suspected enemy movement. However, most victims of ambushes were usually caught 100% by surprise, and being able to shoot accurately from the hip shaved off precious seconds, making reaction times far quicker.
My dad got exceptionally good at hip firing to the point he could do trick shooting. I'll never forget as a kid, tossing up BBs into the air, and from about 7-10 yards away, my dad could shoot them out of the air with another BB. He told me the training method started with what were basically paper plates you'd shoot at. As training went on, the size of the plates would decrease, and eventually most of the trainees he trained with could reliably hit a plate about the size of a tea saucer being tossed up. They trained with BB guns for these exercises. My dad and some of the other more skilled shooters took it further, and would toss up a silver dollar, then they got to 50 cent pieces, then quarters, nickels, dimes, and finally a few of them were able to shoot BBs.
It's amazing to see, and almost seems impossible, but people have don even more impressive things, such as that one fellow who can shoot an aspirin out of the air with a long bow (ua-cam.com/video/Q8Yp9SjCU5E/v-deo.html). Significantly more difficult than shooting a BB with another BB fired from the hip.
Fortunately, my dad ended up being stationed on a base that directed artillery, and while they did suffer raids nearly every night, he never had to go out into the jungle on patrol. I will say, watching him play Duck Hunt from across the room and getting past level 20 firing from the hip was like watching a real life aim bot. Sadly, that level of skill wasn't passed on to me, though I am a natural marksman, just nowhere to that extent (I really suck with pistols, though, and need way more practice).
Thanks for sharing!
aaaah, A day off, a hot cup of coffee, and a new episode of BML. :)
That Costa callout.
That bloke looks like the kind of guy you'd see on a range
Figures, he spends a lot of time on them..
The Bloke's familiarity and skill with the Enfield is really on display here. Very fast and natural.
It seems we have a difference in understanding of what the middle-finger technique is.
No, it's just there are more layers of innuendo here...
@@britishmuzzleloaders Corporal Jones is a much earlier advocate of the middle-finger technique. In reviewing it's effect on the enemies of the empire he concluded, "They don't like it up 'em!"
@@britishmuzzleloaders Slightly off topic Rob, but when Canadians "feel compelled to reply with a rude gesture" so to speak, do they use the older British two finger gesture or the more American middle finger? Genuinely curious here.
The two-finger technique, or "Twix" as it is now known, was only taught at the advanced course.
Haha there's always one!
LOLL “Costa, you weren’t there first!” I got a chuckle out of that
@3.38 - Strange, that landscape 'somewhere in England' looks somewhat similar to the breathtaking scenery to be found in the Realm of Canada.
It is Alberta Canada, just West of the City of Edmonton.
In all honesty there isn't ANYWHERE in England that looks like that but I can suspend disbelief for a few minutes.
@@johnpowell5433I live in Edmonton, that is not even the mountains they are in there. That is just the foot hills, the mountains in Jasper Alberta are still further to the west of where they are in this video.
@@pHaT_Necron99 : Hi Glenn! The highest point in England is 3209 feet (978m) above sea level. Looking at that backdrop I'd say those mountains are even taller.
@@johnpowell5433 Mount Robson is not too far West in the area where they are in this video, Mount Robson is just a couple of meters short of 4kms in height at 3954m.
this feels like a change in priority from bayonet to shooting. The 1940 hip shooting maintained the rifle in "bayonet ready", while the 1944 variant puts far more emphasis on shooting the enemy rather than stabbing them. Very interesting stuff.
Hence the conclusions drawn in the video!... :-) It isn't a complete re-orienting of the assault though... plenty of bayonet use throughout the whole war.
Legend has it, you can still see a yelling Canadian running about the woods, dressed in ww2 uniform, to this day
Yes you can!
The current practise for Commonwealth armies in CBQ / instinctive shooting is NOT to use the weapon’s sights. The principles outlined here are essentially the same, the only difference being the change from bolt action to automatic weapons.
ua-cam.com/video/Y6SZRmb70Bw/v-deo.html
The begining was awesome.
but the rest was rubbish..... :-)
The “Alert” position is tiring, both physically and mentally. That’s why it wasn’t used much. In the memorandum, it specifically states in “town, village, or wood” and “when there is likelihood of meeting the enemy”. In France 1944 this wasn’t everywhere, and in many of these photographs, the men likely would be moving towards “contact” not expecting an ambush. However, as soon as the enemy took a shot, everyone would be on high alert or going to ground. That’s what I was taught in 1968.
You are right. This was explained in the video.
Ashley Palmer, I agree. I suspect that it's become more ubiquitous for the reason that Rob described (i.e. military advisers trained in modern techniques working on historical films). The low ready and alert positions are much more comfortable to maintain with a modern carbine with a pistol grip, whereas with a traditional rifle you have to cock the wrist of your shooting hand at an uncomfortable angle. A traditionally stocked rifle is more instinctively held at the port position.
Good point sir, well made. There is also the age-old gap between doctrine and practice to consider. I wonder whether by 45, when Brits and Canadians were fighting through the Rhineland - with lots of woods and towns - this might have been more common.
@@dermotrooney9584 photographic evidence would suggest the contrary.... I challenge anyone to find a picture of a man holding his rifle in the "alert"... I'd be happy to see it. Just reviewed a Pathe clip of some town fighting in 45... you can hear the enemy fire and men are dashing around.... not one is even close to the alert...
@Sam wd Im feeling your vibe. I'm not sure if this is fact because I'm doing it from memory, but: by 1918 and 45 many units had "all arms" sections with rifle grenade, bren, rifle & sten. In the 80s (probs) trials found fire from shoulder slightly slower but with much higher chance of first round hit. And thats where the current shoulder fashion comes from. But when I asked around some 90s soldiers were taught hip, others shoulder. Are we relearning the same lessons? Dunno.
Interesting stuff. Seemed more logical than the first technique that just looked uncomfortable!
It has been a great study for sure. The hip shooting isn't that bad. The latter technique is just a bit easier.
I WISH the English countryside looked as good as where you film
It does where I live.
its beatiful in the summer here in kent
It really does in places, remmeber that our country does range from Cornish seafront, to the Yorkshire Moors, to the Lake District and so much more.
@@Viewbob_True I'm not amazingly well versed but comparing the canadian relatively unmolested wilderness to England is pretty strange considering the sheer amount of time they've been deforesting. It might look like that in some small areas but in terms of landmass there's just no comparison.
Well done Sir
You humor is on fire today..
Glad it appealed!
Another great video! Thank you for promoting the website. I’m glad the manuals are being put to such good use.
The least we could do... Such a valuable resource for the historically minded!
Hello love your work fella's , I was of the understanding alot of WW1 diggers used the middle finger technique and I imagine the brits and the rest of the Commonwealth would have been the same , but not so WW2 era soldiers, because there was Brens and smgs , I have a friend who is a former rifle range shooter he's around 75 yrs old he tells me when he was a boy in the fifties at the rifle club , the old diggers would occasionally show this technique off and the WW2 vets would stare ! they knew how to take advantage of the 60% throw of the SMLE bolt ,also there is a book published about a Australian sniper in the Korean war ( unfortunately I have forgotten the title , but it is recent publication ) and he explains a situation in where he and an officer found themselves in a Chinese dugout with over 10 Chinamen I think he accounted for 9 of them using the middle finger on the trigger ,he also recounted how he been taught by a NCO who was a WW1 vet to shoot from the hip reload after 6 rounds and easy charger clips . After the Singapore disaster in 1942 the Australian army included shooting from the hip , in their jungle training . I'm not sure they had manuals for that skill , but I have read about it in books about our jungle campaigns. R
Hi Reg. There is anecdotal evidence of it's use, but as mentioned here, the only reference to the middle finger technique is in the pam of (very) late 1944. As for hip shooting, as the whole Empire used the same manuals, hip shooting would have been a universal topic of training from 1940 at least. One never knows just how comprehensive musketry training was, especially in far flung corners... Glad you enjoyed the vid! Cheers!
This great rifle never ceases to amazes me. Certainly the best bolt action ever designed.
And great show gentlemen.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very interesting indeed. For comparison, my reserves training in 2006 for patrolling at the alert was to have the rifle shouldered, sweeping the surroundings with your field of view and the muzzle I think (just not the chap in front!). In the event of incoming fire, the procedure was to reflexively fire off two shot in the generally direction, while dropping to the prone position while calling out "CONTACT LEFT/RIGHT/FRONT", before commencing deliberate aimed fire. Or that's how I remember it at least. I also recall that in our practice sessions the incoming blank rounds always seemed to occur while I was half way through a thistle/bramble patch!
Very much a modern thing.... never seen any picture in action, in theatre, or in training of anyone holding a rifle in the "alert"...
I must admit that it was more energy intensive than it looked, as you mentioned.
Smashing video gents. Great to see a shout out for Richard’s hard work too.
Thanks Matt! Waiting patiently for the G11 guts and glory!
Off Topic; the mountains in the background are beautiful!
Yes they are!
Enjoy your videos so much... well done
Thank you!
This is a great example of experimental archaeology. Please keep up the great work.
Thanks!
That notification bell...The RSM has a new video up!
Haha! The Ross twins have a long way to go to get there!
The tired running is the best thing I've seen all day. :P
Glad it amused! The intent was met then...
It was indeed!
12:15 2 shots in 2 seconds, that's brilliant, only could be matched by a semiauto
They can go pretty quick!
Very good video. Being ex forces myself. I did get taught cqb techniques which aren't too disimilar to what you have explained. Outside of the official pamphlet I was taught a side step/ghost step upon recieving effective enemy fire. This step was after 2 initial rounds in the general direction of threat. Which corresponds to what you were explaining about the enemy potentially following up a shot on yourself. So side stepping throws the aim off enough to break enemies sight picture.
Very good and relatable
👍
Thanks Matt! Glad you enjoyed it. Double Tap-Dash.....
So much more than vaguely interesting! Thanks
That's a relief! Thanks!
The baggy battledress makes Bloke look very young
That, and a shave... :-)
Significant emotional event indeed. The Chieftain would concur.
Oh there goes that inner smile again.... 😊brilliant.....
Cheers!
Very interesting stuff. I've read of this before but it's great to see the concept in action!
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers.
Excellent tutorial! and demonstration of the evolution of combat tactics...
Thanks John!
this was very interesting and totally awesome! Would love to see more collaboration down the track
We would too! The part about being half a world away is a bit of a sticky point though... :-)
I'm sitting on my couch watching this video from Australia, and I am pretty impressed over all. I know that I should love the Number 1 rifle as a golden rule of Being an Aussie, but it's the number 4 MK 1* that is my favourite. Great video mate
Part One might appeal to your guilty conscience then.... 😀
My dad was in the Australian Army during the period where they adopted the SLR (L1A1 for you British types) they were taught a particular technique for close quarter engagement. I can't remember the name of it but the principal was really simple.
When presented with a target at close range the idea was you looked directly at it with both eyes open, then raised the rifle up to a cheek weld keeping your head static and pivoting the body as/if needed into a shooting position, and then fired. It makes a lot of sense, by looking straight at your target you centre it in your field of view, then the act of shouldering and adopting a cheek weld is locking the rifle in with your field of view. It should be more or less pointing at exactly what you're looking at.
My dad would talk about how part of their close quarters training involved patrolling through scrub where targets would present themselves and they would have to rapidly engage them in this way. He said it was good for getting a quick first hit on a man sized target for up to 25 yards.
All these techniques are more or less similar, for sure.
Hm. 1944 England looks A LOT like Canada. LOL Great video! Very insightful and informative.
It is Alberta Canada, just West of the City of Edmonton.
@@pHaT_Necron99 I know, I'm just teasing.
@@ForgottenHonor0 Most of the guys on here probably have no idea though.
@@pHaT_Necron99 Fair enough.
Doesn't it though!
Very cool vid. I learned allot. I will try some of these shooting exercises with my SMLE.
Good luck! Fun stuff!
2 of the Channels I am really proud to support on Patreon, I wish I could do more for them!
Thank you very much for your support. It is meaningful and gratefully accepted.
@@britishmuzzleloaders I have never for 1 moment regretted my support of you or the Bloke, I urge others to join me!
Bloody excellent video again, lads. Love these practical shooting videos. Keep up the good work, your attention to detail and faithful reproduction of the manuals is brilliant.
Thanks!
it is true that these shooting techniques are rather unique.
while different (as in not british, and not with a bolt action), applied in a more modern setup, the training manual INF 512 or "reglement d'instruction du tir au fusil d'assault MAS 5.56, tome II: les aides visuelles" (MAS 5.56 Assault Rifle Training Instruction Rule, tome II: visual aids) of 1978 has two firing positions that remind me of those you explored in this two parter:
first is the "tir au jeter" (throw shot) described as such:
body: FACE the objective while fixing it, both eyes open.
legs: naturally spread, knees bent, feet flat on the ground.
arms: take the weapon away from the body throwing it foward, parallel to the ground, then bring the butt plate in the crook of the shoulder, the carry handle under the directing eye.
hands: the left support the rifle at the height of the bipod. the right grips the pistol grip. index on the trigger.
eyes: at the end of the movement, the directing eye at the level of the channel of the carry handle aims for the objective along this axis.
this remind me of the position explored in this video here, where the rifle is held against the shoulder and aimed roughly above the sights, while the second is closer to the position explored in the first video:
"tir au juger" (judging shot):
body: face the objective by pivoting quickly (weapon-body ensemble) and gathering(?) on the weapon.
Very interesting! Always keen to hear of other countries' take on the subject. Thanks.
Really fascinating.
Thank you both.
You are most welcome!
I love that first bit, love how you record multiple things together. That's great.
But the rest of the video was crap, right?..... (kidding)
Love the videos with the bloke
A day on which a BML video is uploaded is a good day...
Very kind.
Hi, great two-part clip and subject. With the later war/2nd version Campaign wise in addition to North-West Europe (as mentioned), I believe the 2nd technique may have been born/influenced out of the Close-Quarter Fighting in Italy (Monte Cassino, etc) and Burma (Jungle Warfare), where the terrain/ranges were far closer, thus the requirement for a shooting technique in-between the traditional mid-long "aim and shoot" and the 1st early-war "shoot from the hip" as described. This may be purely Post-War, but the 2nd firing technique as I've heard it described is known as "Instinctive", i.e. point the weapon (the weapon is raised and against the shoulder, if it's a Pistol it's raised high), both eyes open as you described; etc. No doubt this is where it's come from. Up until watching your clip/s I assumed "Instinctive" firing only came after the general adoption Post-War of 7.62mm Semi-Auto Service Rifles like the FNFAL/L1A1 SLR, but as per your two-part series it was much earlier. The part of the drill where you fire "two shots" may also have been influenced by the Fairbairn-Sykes Pistol Shooting technique that was introduced in 1940-41 and taught to the Auxiliary, Commandos (Army & Royal Marines), Special Operations Executive (SOE) Agents, Special Air Service (SAS) and Special Boat Squadron (SBS) I assume, where after drawing a Pistol (from a holster for uniformed troops, a compact Pistol from a concealed carry/pocket for SOE Agents, etc), firing from the hip "Instinctively" (no time to bring the Pistol up to eye level/very close range, virtually point-blank) and then do the "Double-Tap" two quick shots. I believe that Fairbairn and Sykes (I'm not sure which one) observed in their Police service in Burma and/or China (or equivalent) that in street fighting whoever gets the first shot (or shots) off achieves dominance, making the other duck or hesitate, even if it doesn't hit them; kind regards.
Glad to hear you found interesting and thank you for adding your thoughts on the subject!
Love the video you ever thought about pistol videos? Like with the webley or anything. And ever a Q&A. Iver way keep up the videos
Pistol ownership in Canada is not congruent with my style of shooting and method of making videos, unfortunately...
Having just bought a no4 mk1 ROF, I’m now giddy with excitement to practice this myself.
Nice!
that modern way of holding the rifle has always been a pet peeve of mine i just hate seeing weapons held like that in movies an re-enactments
It is interesting that it clearly was the prescribed technique, but not until very late in the war. I have yet to see any pictorial evidence of it in use... I too cringe when one sees it used so inappropriately..
@@britishmuzzleloaders I'm struck by the fact that Timothy Harrison Place mentions how the 'lane method' of a platoon attack in the infantry training manual was only ever used in combat once that he could find evidence of. The British/Canadians apparently tended not to read their own manuals, or at the least didn't seem obliged to follow them.
@@HandGrenadeDivision Does that speak to the perceived effectiveness of the lane method?.... As an said to your comment, in battlefield questionnaires it was revealed that the amount of instances that platoon battle drill was resorted to in order to reach the objective were surprisingly few, with the artillery doing it's job much more often than not... Fighting through being a separate operation,.....
@@britishmuzzleloaders I don't recall specifically what that says about the perceived effectiveness, but I think it may mean only that the necessary conditions for setting up such an attack rarely presented themselves, or perhaps the platoon commander on the ground just wasn't able to orchestrate it for whatever reasons. I expect it was hard to collect that kind of data after the fact, to be honest - as you must know, war diaries talk about objectives taken in terms of timing and phase lines, not which specific methods were utilized to do it.
@@HandGrenadeDivision That's the interesting thing about the questionnaires. They speak to actual battlefield actions and results... To think that "rarely", a platoon had to resort to "battle drill" to get to their objective speaks to how effective the Artillery was. Place puts the various forms of platoon "battle drill" (or forms of attack) firmly in the context of that mid-war period as the Armies were building in the UK. Various training schemes were tried in an effort to best find "the solution" to how the Infantry would fight in a Western European theatre, IIRC....
Indeed, where else would you put a bayonet ..... :D Practical 'archaeology' (if that's the right phrase). Great video! :)
Cheers!
Very intresting video!
Simply amazing, happy thanksgiving - I know you don’t celebrate, but still :)
We do indeed,... it's just at the correct time of year.... :-).....
Good video, I perceive field feedback was coming from Sicily and Italy as they were clearing small towns and narrow alleways. Modern CQB fallows that form today. By the way you can skip the gym this week Rob
Perhaps there was some form of feedback that was used to formulate the new drills,... or it was someones' "Good Idea"...
So interesting, great work chaps
Cheers!
Well done , to you both very effective method, though would take nerves of steel to engage the enemy across short distances, great video though.
Yes, it takes guts to be an Infantryman.
Just think back to Waterloo, early 18 hundreds, I would not want to be in the front rank of the first Phalanx, though I wouldn't want to be in the front rank in any attack , be it Crimea, Sudan, Africa or India, WW1, or WW2,
HAPPY THANKSGIVIGN...also you fit to well as a drill sargent/instructor you should make it a series XD
Cheers!
great video, makes me love my No. 4 even more....
from Australia.
Thank you!
Good work. Very funny. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Smacking down those movie and reenactorisms at the end there. I'm sure as you know it's a huge argument all over and around. Contemporary stuff has quite led many to carry their rifles in very anachronistic manners no matter the impression (except the classic German one-handed running, which you can find in many places and armies from the Great War onwards). Often titled the "Low Ready" and such. I only take offense, though my training was Marine-centric, but "Alert is to the dirt" or that overused modern style of carrying. Meanwhile, the "Ready" has the weapon placed into the shoulder and ready to fire, similarly to the late-war technique illustrated here. "Low" was one looking over the sights, "High" was using the sights while searching. This "new" combat shooting was implemented in training about the time I entered in 2005 and was being constantly changed at least for the Marine Corps. We still used the "stock at the hip, muzzle at the eyes" "Tactical Carry" that had been in place since at least the 80's as well. Of course all of this also plays into posturing and levels of threat directly or indirectly perceived. Any sort of soldier in WW2 would be in some sort of "ready" position when a known and very close range threat was at hand, while their "alert" position seems to be more of the "Port," "Hip," or other styles of carry that would enable a quicker engagement, but ability to respond to threats from wherever should they materialize, just now what's in front of you. But as you stated, that final closure of distance would certainly see something more aggressive and ready to fire than the solely "threatened" postures you see in photos. Context as always with history, is quite important rather than dismissing things as modern out-of-hand without realizing that though what I call the "Alert" was most certainly not used, when in the final assault and possibly in CQB, utilizing what I call the "Ready" would make large amounts of sense, even in the context of history. No soldier is going to approach an enemy position, known to be occupied, in the last 25yds or so with their rifle held across their front or in one hand at the side, both too relaxed for what's going on.
In another historical note, I have some bits and bobs here and there of snap firing being recommended in the US military through the war, a Marine officer even wrote an extensive article for the Infantry Officer's Journal in '44-'45 demanding the importance of snap firing as had been learned in close quarters in the Pacific and places like Aachen and other cities in Europe. And with similar conclusion that a soldier moderately skilled at snap firing should be able to score a modicum of accuracy and importantly establish fire superiority in CQB. ( www.easy39th.com/files/Snap-Shooting_in_Close_Combat_1944.pdf )
Snap shooting was a key feature in the post Boer War era in Britain and the Empire. It's been a feature ever since.
Isn't it amazing how totally unlike the forests of Canada Kent looks?
I know!
OMG this made me laugh my old Dad God bless him was a serjeant instructor then.😁 gave them hell no time for the niceties that the modern day recruits enjoy today. Funny situation as they hated him and respected him and very good to hid kids.
Thanks for sharing Mike!
In a firefight some people starts running around as a reaction to adrenaline and such. Outher shooters stand completely still just focusing on the target (maybe because thats what we do in training). Side stepping might be useful to break that focus apart from just moving away from the line of fire?
And I personally find carrying a old time rifle in a modern ready position quit uncomfortable without a good pistol grip like on a "assault rifle".
Just my two cents... or what ever currency..
In a firefight you go by instinct. In urban training exercise, I was the first one in a room. face to face with two enemies six soots rang out. two in the chest and one in the head. that was what I was told to do so that was what I did. the two I engaged didn´t have the same training. so they didn´t even have the time to react.
Holding it by the wrist is indeed somewhat uncomfortable... but that is not the way to hold it as shown here... the right hand hold the bolt and is therefore more vertical in orientation... much more comfortable. Besides, as also mentioned at the end, this position isn't how you "carry" the rifle...
Yes that is true,
Would you be willing to try the late war techniques with the SMLE? The added weight and offset balance with the larger bayonet may change things up a bit, as would the sights. A lot of British Empire forces still used the SMLE up until the end of the war, should they have been given the updated training, they may well have performed the techniques.
I would, of course. AS the SMLE was used right the way through the war... nothing planned right now but if the opportunity presents itself, then of course.
Excellent work you two. It gave me thought on the much derided bayonet on a SMG. Fine charging in on contact but what do you do when you get on top of the enemy and the magazine is empty? 'Hang on a minute. I'll be with you directly!' Or resort to the pointy stick. Pointy stick is not good but better than trying to do a mag change amongst the naughty people whom you have just quite upset. 'Bayonet goes in with the weight of the body, not the weight of your arms! Run into him, don't take jabs!'
Thanks John! I agree... 99 times out of 100 you'll never need it but when you jump into that ditch or bust through that doorway and something goes sideways, with it fixed you still have an option to capitalize on his surprise...
This would be a lot of fun to try in a 2-gun match like InRange’s
Yes it would. Handguns in the bush are a no-no in Canada...
britishmuzzleloaders That’s unfortunate. I may have to practice some of this stuff and give it a go.
Really really good video!
Thank you!
all-in fighting captain Fairbairn .has the rifle combat -close quarter. with practice "15 mins aday and daily firing" you should be able to get 5 shots in 4 seconds , hits. That's a lot of ammo
In 1944, the practice was in Normandy France. Either you got good or it was likely you became the casualty.
Something that simply wasn't available to the vast majority of the Infantry...
Perhaps a late war technique with late war ammo provision?
@@dermotrooney9584 What are you referring to?
@@britishmuzzleloadersThe impression I get is that from 39-42 doctrine and training involved a lot of guesswork and not much ammo. By late 44 in NWE Div battle schools had absorbed the lessons of Normandy and got lots of ammo to train with.
I love the videos thumbnail 😂😂
I think its the baggy battledress that makes him look so young
beautiful backdrop! did the commonwealth kit keep you comfortable in that climate?
HA! in 30 plus degrees?..... no.... it was incredibly hot for my part of the world and well,...... wool,... I'll let you take it from there.
It says somewhere in England, but looks more like canadian rocky mountains around crowsnest pass area, between alta and bc, possibly forest trunk road
Well spotted as not being in England.....
Do you have a No.5 Mk.1 Jungle Carbine?
I do not, but access to one.
A bit of an odd request, but the scenery in your videos is quite remarkable and a tour of your country side would be much appreciated, or those mountains I see.
Maybe one day!... fly the drone around...
britishmuzzleloaders thanks I’ll look forward to it.
Another thing I might add, is that there is another model of Lee Enfield from New Zealand ( where I’ve been born, raised and still live) known as the New Zealand pattern lee Enfield Carbine antiquearms.org.nz/articles/the-new-zealand-carbine/ just thought you might be interested.
0:35 Me, when they tell me to go over the top.
Haha!
From what I've heard, people who aren't using the sights, tend to shoot low. They threat focus, which has them lower the firearm so they can see more of the person, which translates to gut shots
I found myself having to force the rifle lower (sometimes too low) lest the round go over the target.
Rob, any chance you could do something on shooting the No5?
Was there even any specific training regime for it?
Eventually... there wasn't anything specific as far as I know...
Is there any access to a PDF of this manual? I couldn't seem to find it on the museum's site.
Museum?.... Are you talking about the Vickers MG Site?.... the manual is there... That's where we got it in the first place... Link in the description. Cheers.
Was the technique developed informally in the Italian campaign? That seems to be the only environment that would justify it in the first place - one thinks of Cortona ....
Who knows.... as you saw in the video, the memorandum came out in late 44... well after D-Day....
Are you both in Canada? I really enjoy the videos from both of your channels!
We were when we who this video... Mike is from Switzerland.
Thanks for the response. I'm looking forward to trying out my first No 1 Mk 3*. Should get it in about a week. I like the connection to history in your videos. I'm American (US Army). I love all things military history and appreciate British / Common Wealth contributions. Been a fan of Enfield's for a long time, even the Model 1853.
I was waiting for the "It's..."
Need long hair and a seashore....
I’m already hearing the music lol
Man that intro gave me PTSD haha XD
Easy now...
I see the makings of a retro-ww2 bolt gun only assault match.....maybe a handgun stage...
That would be a great deal of fun, for sure... can't use handguns like that here though..
Beautiful scenery, are you in British Columbia?
Yes.
I know this is off the subject of the video but I have always though that the Pattern 1908 web equipment was better suited for troops armed with the No. 1 and No. 4 rifles than the Pattern 1937 web equipment. I understand the reasoning behind the Pattern 1937 equipment was to have "universal" ammunition pouches. Maybe i am just use to the US Army's specific belts for M1903/M1917/M1 clips and another belt specific belt for M1918 BAR magazines. Care to comment.
Funny you mention that as Mike and I filmed a "talky" vid on that very subject.... It won't be out for a while, but stay tuned!
I can’t wait.
I understand the mentality for the “Basic pouch” reasoning, but I cannot fathom the interconnctedness (if that’s a word) that the system required. You had to have a set of pouches to complete the load bearing portion. This was a repeat of the errors of the Slade Wallace sets. The leather setups may have been limited because of the leather material, but with web you don’t have that limitation.
There’s was a set that used charger pouches but they were not used by infantry.
www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1937/1937_set_displays.html#batt1
The US equipment was much more modular.
In the 1960s the “Pattern 51” equipment was issue but few used it as it didn’t work with the FN rifle. You were actually supposed to carry spare magazines in your breast pockets of your combat uniform.
@@ashleypalmer7983 I would disagree with the statement that the American set was '"more" modular... the BAR man had a completely different "belt" from the rifleman as did those armed with an SMG or M1 carbine (who actually had a belt and not a set of cartridge carriers).... not modular at all... the 37 pattern had all kinds of different pouches depending on what had to be carried... that is the definition of modular. The reasons for the basic pouch concept can be boiled down to one.... the Bren. Of course there were other uses for them such as 2 inch bombs, grenades, Boys ammo, etc,... but the adoption of the Bren and it's ascendancy to being the focus of the rifle section was the driving force behind the basic pouch development. As for the 51 pattern, it was the 64 pattern that didn't even have mag pouches and relied on the shirt pockets...
@@ashleypalmer7983 I've got to disagree with you there. The '37 pattern is incredibly adaptable and you can see a huge range of variation in the distribution of kit. Apart from the basic utility pouches there was the option to switch out parts for a radio set and batteries, first aid gear, binocular case, etc- you name it, you can fit it. I know it's outside of the scope of the video, but the haversack is worth a mention, as it is genius. The interlocking mess tins contain a 24 hour ration pack and it's dimensionally the same as the water bottle, so they can be slotted into the bag or carried on the belt. I'm only scratching the surface here- the 37 kit is incredibly well thought out for the time and makes a lot of the kit of other nations look pretty archaic.
At the end of your video you said that the Alert Position wasn't quite really much use.....So this make me think that they maybe using the Hip Shooting till the end of the Bloody War because if you look at some of the photos they were on Port Arms or High Ready postion which is quite almost like ready for a Bloody Bayonet fight and if the Hip Shoot is more evolve from the Bayonet Onguard position so they may really using the Hip shoot towards the end the war and i saw one video when a British Troop hip shoot a No.4 and i believe in maybe 1944 or maybe early 1945
In all fairness, the later drill didn't come in till late 1944... how much time was there to train recruits and see them to the front in that amount of time.. conceivably, those who received the new training would have only reached theatre very late in the game...
@@britishmuzzleloaders well i quite agree on you but i just want to share about what i saw in this video mate
ua-cam.com/video/V8_IoJpAK-E/v-deo.html the video is by Debonair Extraodinaire and if you want to skip the video go at 2:08 so you can see what i saw but still your still quite right really
Anyone else imagine his neighbors on the other mountain seeing him run around in circles and think he is crazy?
That is their problem... :-)
Bloke looks so young in this video holy moly
Stepping close to the razor sometimes has that effect!... :-)
Have you thought about doing the New Zealand land wars? More specifically the invasion of the Waikato 1863?
I have...
britishmuzzleloaders oh sorry my bad, I’ll go have a look now
@@spen6334 No,..... I have 'thought' about it... not done a video yet...
Where could I possibly aquire a WWI era uniform for a 5th Royal Highlanders of Canada? I want to make a WWI living history persona
Right,... they formed the 13th Bn and the 42nd Bn CEF.... You'll look similar to what I wear in the Musketry of 1914 series. There isn't really a one stop shop.... google will be your friend...
Your editing is suprub! What software do you use?
Thank you! Just the iMovie that comes with the Mac...
Nice job on no dislikes
Thank you!
Interestingly there is some very late war footage of men firing their No. 4s from the hip, bayonets fixed, supposedly advancing through a Dutch town but I understand the general consensus is that it's staged for the camera. Looks brilliant though.
I think I know the clip... couldn't find it though..
I feel sorry for Ross
Don't he brings it on himself... wait, which one...
@@britishmuzzleloaders the one who suggested we should just shoot the enemy in close quarters?
The one who was exhausted doing the bayonet drills?
@@TheSpectacledSteve Right, got it.. :-)
Now +britishmuzzleloaders +Blokeontherange a question I had for you guys is here in the United States we often have the conversation of “if you don’t or can’t have an ar15 (not saying it’s the best for defense just saying jt seems to be the standard) what manually operated rifle or carbine do you go with?” Given y’alls experience with the Lee Enfield, would you recommend it over something like say a Winchester 1873? (For those who read this comment I’m not intending for this question to be political, this is simply a would you rather pertaining to the Lee enfield series verses the Winchester 1873 in the modern context of defensive shooting or general purpose rifle).
I suppose it depends on context, or where you expect contact to happen. If in a home or structure, and the weapon must be manually operated, I would go with a pump shotgun. The back and forth motion of a pump is quicker than working a bolt, and can be done with the support hand without breaking the sight picture. Additionally, within a short range, buckshot is one of the most devastating cartridge choices possible. If one were expecting longer encounters, then I suppose some flavor of lever action would indeed be effective.
If one weren't restricted to manually operated arms, but were still prevented from owning a scary black rifle like an AR or AK, the M1 Garand comes up quite often as the best "other" gun, often followed by the SKS, both being clip fed guns with fixed magazines and no pistol grip or flash hider. I lean towards the Garand, as the ammunition is more powerful, the sights superior, and the reloading considerably faster with an en bloc clip over a stripper clip. My two cents
Well, in Canada there is no real and practical concept for civilian use of defensive shooting. Sure, it is practiced by many for recreational purposes or out of personal interest, but the use of a firearm in self defence is EXCEPTIONALLY fraught with legalities and prejudices.... On my Channel, I focus on the military application of the weapons... in that aspect, the 1873 has no place on the battlefields of the 1940s.
britishmuzzleloaders thank you for being honest in your answer. Admittedly I tend to agree with you.
Somewhere, John Farnam is smiling.
I presume you are not talking about the soft rock singer?....
@@britishmuzzleloaders Correct, John S Farnam, Firearms Instructor. Big on getting off the X with movement. But he does have an equally nice voice.
How many random people who have seen you doing this out in crownland gone: WTF?!?!
So the alert position is similar to the low ready position but...The question is do they use that position always?
Did you see the end of the video? :-)
@@britishmuzzleloaders sorry yes so now i understand sorry i make a comment to early to see the end
Is it me or does Bloke On The Range looks like Pvt. Gripweed from How I Won The War
iam like you channel is very interesting . I have a question you are of Scottish origin because I saw you in many videos wearing a kilt ?
I am Canadian.