Personal Kit of the World Wars: A Chat with Bloke on the Range
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
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Bloke on the Range
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My Granddad (I had 3 in WW2; one was killed in action and my Grandmother remarried) was a Bren gunner at Monte Cassino. He was covering the retreat of his company with a section of men and was firing bursts to suppress the German Paras. He emptied mag after mag until he was told that he had just received the last one. When it ran out, he jumped up with his mate and legged it back towards the carriers. He made a joke about the unpleasantness that rained down around him as he ran back and then decided that the gun was slowing him down. So he threw it into a ravine! He always maintained that he was the last one away from the position and the first one into a driving seat of a carrier! His Company Commander jumped aboard and yelled; "Go, go Private!". My Granddad spoke to the officer later and said, "I'm a Corporal sir." The officer replied, "You were until you threw that f*****g Bren away!"
Great punchline... thanks for sharing!
RIP
You made that all up didn't you.
@@snowflakemelter1172 No. That was one of only a few stories that my Granddad would tell about his war. We knew from one of his mates from the same unit that they both ended up in a replacement depot after their unit was destroyed. He never spoke about the battle that resulted in the annihilation but he told of how he got a job in the depot office and had a collection of cap badges so that when the tannoy called "All Devonshires to the parade ground", Granddad would take out his cap badge and put on another units. He made that funny too but he never spoke about how he really felt. The story from Monte Cassino is absolutely true but he made it funny to cover what he really felt. You don't have to believe it but I know it's true so that's all that matters to me.
@@snowflakemelter1172 Wars are surreal, so loads of weird, interesting and funny things can happen.
"A Bren, its a Czechoslovakian design!"
"A Checkeslo what??!"
hello from CZECH republic :D (we still love Bren)
everyone knows this. It's even reflected in the bren name.
@@JohnyG29 Ahh but 1915 Rob didn't, Czechoslovakia didn't exist until 1918!
@@TheArmourersBench I wonder why? He seems pretty knowledgeable on this sort of thing.
czech this gun out
I suspect I'm not the only child that went to school in the 70's and 80's with a surplus 37 pattern haversack for a school bag , wish I still had it now .
Edward Corran I’ve got a signal bag and a haversack up stairs.
The bag I used to carry my lunch to work was an old gas mask bag. It still had a length of string attached which I presumed once had a whistle attached.....That was almost 40 years ago.
Dude! You win the internet. That made me smile. :)
I still use mine as a tool bag for the car mine was a blue one
I loaned mine to a "mate" and never got it back. I do have an American pack with a 1944 date on it and the bloke's name who was issued it stenciled inside. Unfortunately his name was very worn when I got the pack and you can only read his first name.
Although the BEF was mechanised, unlike today, very few soldiers could drive. After returning via Dunkirk, my Dad and his unit went on driving courses......no synchromesh !! In fact in the 70's when I loaned him my Morris Minor, he still insisted on double de clutching ...which fortunately my gearbox survived. He last drove Ambulances in Italy !!
Alongside the US troops in Italy ( 5th Army ) tins of bully beef were swapped for K rations , and our woollen shirts swapped for the US cotton shirts.
Nice story! Thanks for sharing!
britishmuzzleloaders They were driven into the countryside and given instruction by numbers on how to drive the truck. Having learnt to drive a hearse !!! before the war, without letting on, and giving due deference to the instructors teaching abilities, his reward was to drive the truck back to camp. Under strict orders to stop before the gates, my Dad said he speeded up, rattled through the camp, and then reversed into the parking place....while the NCO had a dicky fit as he saw his career collapsing, and then realised it was a big leg pull !!
I've a great tale about Dieppe if you want ?
@@californiadreamin8423 sure!
britishmuzzleloaders One day in the office, old Norman grimaced with arthritis, rubbing his leg. Is it an old sprain I asked....no, I was shot by a German !! Cool 🤕 His commando unit had trained with Canadians and one dark night he'd been ordered to deliver something to them. As he crunched up the the gravel drive a voice shouted "Qui va la ", or was it the wind whistling in the trees, well it was more than the wind because a shot rang out, fortunately a miss !! During the training one Canadian drove them bonkers because he was a baseball fanatic, a catcher, with this great big glove, and was always asking them to throw ball......"So we were in this cellar in Dieppe "..."Why"..."We were looking for Germans"....ask a silly question. He then described how suddenly the darkness was broken by a door opening, with a hand lobbing a stick grenade at them. Quick as a flash, this Canadian catcher, caught it and threw it straight back !!! Already fascinated by his story, this left me gobsmacked. I looked at "old" Norman as he approached retirement, and tried to imagine him 40 years younger...."but how did you get captured ".... "Oh I was shot". That was just the beginning of a long story which I've never forgotten after nearly 40 years.
I still double de-clutch even today.
BritishMuzzleLoader you deserve a much wider audience. Subscribed. Kind regards from Australia.
Thank you very much indeed. Very kind of you to say so.
That image at 0:58 is pretty poignant. That’s a company role call of Australians after a battle. The company started out with ~200 men. Those were the only ones that came through not killed or wounded. Can’t remember the battalion, battle or year, but I think it’s from 1918.
Yeah we copped it mate
Wonderfully informative fellows. I learned a lot. Who would have imagined that the P08 rig would have a such a superior wireless mic fit?
Who knew, eh?
Eye roll when the Bloke talks about Bren magazines. Hehehe...
It's all online now!!!
‘It’s all online now’ hahahahahaha :)
A terrific discussion that makes a solid point (albeit in passing) about the sophistication of British infantry thinking coming out of the Great War and into the Second World War. The infantry section in the Biritsh Army from just after the Somme through to the end of the war was very different in how it was equipped and how it fought from the old sweats who had galloped and run in the retreat in late 1914 until the front stabilized before Christmas that year. The WW2 army was another order of magnitude different again, despite all the interwar penny-pinching. Great video, as usual from both of you.
Yes, sections were hugely different from the beginning to the end of the Great War. They were different, mind you, within the Platoon but overall, the Infantry changed radically. Cheers!
Absolutely fascinating. As a former reenactor I still find myself quite interested in the details of kit and how food, water and ammo were carried. We get so focused on the firearms that we overlook the fact that every soldier had to live in the field and had to carry his essentials with him. Keep up the great work. Thanks and Merry Christmas.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Delightful and informative as usual!
Thanks again!
Smashing as always chaps, I believe (if I recall correctly) that during late WWI everyone in the Lewis Gun section was trained to operate the Lewis - just as their ancestors with the Bren were at the platoon level. - Matt
I agree. I'm sure there was a good deal of in the field/ OJT/familiarity training for the reminder of the Platoon as well.
I joined the British Army in 1987 - we were trained on SLR, Browning HP Pistol, SMG and LMG(Bren) during Basic Training - the LMG was a lot of fun to shoot
Nice!
Nicely done! A good chat to listen to as usual. Interestingly there is a half-way house between the two sets of equipment, basically a version of the 1937 Pattern basic pouches but made to attach to the 1908 belt and braces. Ed: Sorry for the redundant information, commented before getting to Mike mentioning this!
As said for the time 1937 Pattern was quite inovative but men were beginning to complain when still being issued it into the 1970s...
Also Mike it's called a blouse because you fasten it tight at the waist and blouse it over your belt!
I was desperately trying to find a picture of the P37 type pouches on P08 as I had seen one before... I couldn't remember where I had seen it...
Too late to be of use but if I remember correctly a friend of mine has a good original photo of the pouches in use which we re-staged at an event a few years ago, I'll try and find them and send over the original photo and recreation.
There are a couple about.
Not many, but source material indicates issue was prioritised to Territorial Army units - so little of it leaves the UK. This allows familiarisation with the Bren etc, and rapidly superseded by 39 Pattern leather, before proper 37 Pattern is finally issued.
Quite so, very much a stop gap design but they served a useful purpose.
Umhum... Thanks for the content laddies. Signs of to the sound of Highland laddie 🏴🇬🇧🇨🇦.
Cheers!
I use a couple of Bren pouches on US military webbing for my "falling" belt to carry my gas bottles (I work cutting trees on my woodlot).....damned handy!....and this channel does great vids....compliments from the BC Interior....
Thank you George!
Ending was hilarious. Good work, fellas.
Thanks!
We in the Northern Ireland Army cadet force during the early 80s still used the 303 rifle and bren gun, plus used the ww2 webbing. Then I used the bren in 7.62 till the early 90s when we moved on to the SA80 rifle.So I went from 303 to 7.62 to 5.56 from when I was 13 to 16 then around 20 many years ago.
Memories, eh?
Love the ending. You're always somewhat formal and proper during the actual presentations, but then you do these humorous intros and outros that reveal a nice sense of humour.
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers!
Nice work, guys. I hope Micheal enjoyed his trip to B.C.
Thank you. I believe that he did!
Great video, glad to be of help! Hope to see you both here at the Wirksworth Gunroom some day!
The philosophy continued into the 1958 Pattern webbing with the pouches used for LMG mags, 50 round GPMG belts, grenades or 2"/51mm mortar rounds. Still had the cloth bandoliers for 7.62 Nato to top up the SLR/LMG mags or link into belts. Used ones are too floppy to act like new ones which opened more easily. The webbing set would slip off the shoulders easily to give you a dry seat cushion. Despite later informal use for the KFS the little side pouch on the main LHS pouch was for the Energa Rifle Grenade launcher. Personally I also had a LHS shoulder lanyard made of a spare bootlace with a tin opener on the end in the top left pocket. 4 more SLR mags would go in the pockets and 2 more squeezed into the mess tins. With 1 mag on the rifle it gave 7 mags with 140 rounds. Don't always believe the official guides. One Colonel kept his pistol holster full of chocolate bars as he thought that if it came to using a pistol he had already failed so keeping up his efficiency was more useful. Then I decided if I moved to Int. then I could go to war on wheels with a tent and tea as a gentleman should. Left the donkey work to the young roughy toughie Rifle Companies. However, I am too far ahead of your WW1/2 period. Like the leather jerkin. Useful piece of kit.
Indeed, the concept of carrying link for the section GPMG was a direct "one for one" replacement for the Bren and it's mags... Thanks for sharing, John!
Great information. My Grandfather was originally rifleman but was severely wounded at Vimy and evacuated back too England. After he recovered he was trained on the Lewis gun and then sent back to his unit. At Amiens he was in a squad of seven men operating and supporting the Lewis gun. He wrote that the Germans targeted the gun and after the first few hours of the Battle the other six men had all been killed. His Platoon assigned men to carry ammo for him. He survived Amiens unscathed but was wounded for his fourth time at the D.Q. Line ( he had also been wounded twice at The Somme ). Deas Gu Cath
Thanks for sharing Dave. 16th Bn, I take it...
yes 16th. Battalion ( Canadian Scottish ) Besides The Somme , Vimy, Amiens and The Hundred Day Offensive he also fought at Ypres. The info on the Lewis gun was really great for me as it added to what he had written about them in his memoirs @@britishmuzzleloaders
@@daveenberg9075 Some really fascinating history you have there, it seems. Thanks again for sharing. Where was he from?
He was a Nebraska farm boy. He had moved to Canada in 1912 for work and a chance to receive a homestead which he did on the Red Deer River. In 1915 he along with five of his friends enlisted at Moosejaw. Pte. Charles Barker had an elliptic seizure when they arrived in England and was deemed not fit for combat, Pte.s Auther Stockwell and Jack Bullen were KIA at Mouquet Farm on The Somme ( no know graves ), Pte. Peter Thompson was serverly wounded and taken POW at Regina Trench on The Somme, Pte Charels Basset beat the odds and was never injured, he served with the unit until 1919. My Grandfather Pte. Purl Moore was wounded at Mouquet Farm and then again at Regina Trench on The Somme , wounded at Vimy Ridge and then wounded again at The D.Q Line during The Hundred Days Offensive. He returned home in January of 1919 along with the other wounded Canadians and lived until he was 90. @@britishmuzzleloaders
The intro alone is.... wow. Its comedy gold, with a bit of sarcasm regarding how stuff happened for real, way back when. People struggled for their ammo, and their trenchmate or combat buddy, was like "get a fooking grip man, we gon'ta be dead if you dont unfuck yerself lad!!!!"
Thats amazing. Britishmuzzleloaders is what I watch everytime i am down, and have like zero drive to watch anything, I watch the channel, and instantly watch for hours.....
That is very kind of you to say so. Thank you very much!
Another very informative video guys. It helped me identify some bits of kit I have laying around. Also very timely, we have a WW1 and WW2 battlefield tour booked for may.
Keep up the good work
Rick
Enjoy! If you haven't been, it will be memorable, I guarantee it.
I have been recovering from an operation and just did not feel like watching anything. The last 3 days, actually. Until I saw this video. It was what I needed. Great, fun, and informative. Thank you for posting.
That is very kind of you to say. I hope your recovery clips along nicely! Cheers.
Thank you again for another great video Rob! These collaborative videos you did with Mike are in depth and very interesting. Can we expect any more?
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, there is another in production.... although it's a shooting vid not a talky bit..
Excellent content gentlemen. Very informative, and also very interesting. Thank you.
Thank you!
+1 for the end bit...
Lucky that the lower mainland in BC stays nice and green most of the year.
South Western BC does get it's share of snow, especially away from the coast.
Hi Rob. Thank yopu once agin for an outstandingly informative and interesting video! stay safe and Happy Christmas and a Happy New Year all year long. ATB. Nigel
Thank you Nigel! and to you!
Awesome stuff. You guys alone created a much more interesting, informative and engaging program than just about anything produced for TV these days. I'd watch a series about the history of soldiering equipment with you two any day!
That is very kind! Glad you enjoyed it!
Not gonna lie, for a brief moment I thought this was gonna be a short film (which would have been even more awesome)
As in an "acted" short film?
Nice chat chaps.....
Thank you!
Thanks for that. Very interesting discussion. I have wondered how rifle ammunition was carried in 37 pattern webbing and now I know.
Seems odd, but it was the way it was...
I enjoy how you (without personal blame on anyone else) point out, many Men suffered because of decisions made by the hierarchy. Decisions that labored the infantry and was the root cause of something dreadfully was wrong somewhere. Many engagements of campanes boiled up these infections and mistakes in thought and theory, only later to be recognized that steps and concerns that had a Very Low order of probability were emphasized. One can only hope that lessons learned in the personal kit issued gear are practical and in good order for today's modern fighting people on front lines throughout the globe. You have an interesting channel and thought is the byproduct of your reviews. whether it is Tactics from the field command base, terrane advantages or disadvantage, mechanized support, supply, weapons or the Naval assistance for the bombardment of hardened emplacements you seem to have good points and bad points to your discussions. Thank you for providing such an in-depth review of history. Dave.
Very good presentation. I have always wondered about the pattern 37 pouches and what was carried in them. It now makes sense that it was all to support the Bren gun. I also think that, the equipment being universal, to some degree, that officers and NCOs would be less identifiable to snipers. Excellent show, Gentlemen.
Funny enough, Officers had different pouches issued to them... a holster for the revolver, and a pouch for its ammunition, cases for a compass, and binoculars, as well as a different haversack for maps and protractors, etc,....
37 pattern was also modular for compass, binocular pouches and pistol holsters
Yes it was,..... and respirator bags, and SMG pouches, and Vickers K pouches, and,....... and,...... :-)
Excellent exposition. I had never really appreciated the LMG centered nature of the section in WW2.
Thanks!
The way they shared the load amongst the section reminds me of a very long slog through Ft. Lewis 20 some years ago during my QL3 Infantry, where we had more ammo than we knew what to do with it and most of us were walking around like the staypuffed marshmallow man loaded down with boxes of ammo for the C9, I swear I had like 7 or 8 of them stuffed into various nooks and crannies.
Great work Rob and Mike, I really enjoyed this series, as I do all of your videos. Thank you, keep it up.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing! What's old is new, eh?
Superb. Thanks Gents!
Cheers!
Great collaboration!
Thanks!
Never knew the details of use of those huge ammunition pouches. Thanks!
Most welcome!
The P37 pouches are very much similar to the pouches of the US Vietnam era M56 kit. The magazine pouch was called the Universal Small Arms Pouch/Case and fit all kinds of stuff. They had a different pouch specifically for the 20 rounds M16 magazines, but these are actually quite scarce.
Interesting!
I learned a lot from this video. I thought that the soldiers carried 300 rounds in WW1.Thanks Rob and Mike!!!
Cheers!
Also... the photo at 19:20 has been promulgated online as an original period image. It's not, I know because I was there when it was taken! The subject is a friend of mine who appears in some of my videos. I know you don't cite it as a period image but just thought I'd point this out.
Thanks Simon! It certainly was used for it's illustration of the the earlier, lower mounted pouches and not for any historical provenance. I'll leave all the original kit and minutia to you! ... :-)
As said on facebook completely understand the use here, just amused that it's been quite widely reposted elsewhere online as an origial shot!
Very well put together! Kudos to both, full of stuff I didn't know!
Glad you enjoyed it!
As a US Marine who has been in Combat ..I can say the load bearing gear has to carry a lot of weight!
It doesn't talk many miles of walking to find out the best and worst gear you have!
My dad was a WW 2 GI and myself Vietnam!. Great video!
Thanks for sharing Jim. Glad you enjoyed it!
I was issued 38 pattern webbing when I joined the Junior Leaders Regt RA in 1974. When I joined my regular regt (1st RHA) in 1975 I was then issued with 58 Pattern webbing, of which I still have some.
It certainly had a long service life!
@@britishmuzzleloaders We were switching from LMG to SLR and back to holding our own Ammo in 20 round magazines (that I think also interchangeable with the Bren LMG). The pouches were too deep for SLR Mags. We also moved the ammo pouches (38 and 58) round to the side of our bodies as much as possible, so when in the prone position you could access them easier and you were not laying on uncomfortable magazines :-)
How did the WW2 troops survive with just a large pack, but now were expected to carry a 100 litre Bergan full of stuff ?
One word, transport. Italy and NW Europe were places where the transport would come up and deliver the large packs (with the blankets and such)... Other than that, the troops survived with what they carried... in the small pack and in the remainder of the webbing... Make no mistake, the availability of company transport for kit and fresh rations was nearly omnipresent (periodic battlefield requirements notwithstanding)
I'm still serving yet first joined in the 80s. 58 pattern webbing just had a large pack that wasnt at all large! I was armoured so didnt have to carry my gear... yet on "active edges" high level alert and deployment exercises we had a strict kit list, all to be in large packs for infantry role if required. We didnt get bergans until the early 90s...
I have some pieces of the 1937 web gear. Its great stuff. I have the 08 Large pack, the 37 small pack/Haversack. Two Bren gun magazine pouches and one set of L straps that are a tad too short. Oh and I have a Mark 7 Gas mask bag, a real one.
"Great Stuff" in the right timeframe and context.... :-)
I trained on '37 webbing in the 70's. The story we were told was that it won the procurement competition because it had more brass in it than the alternatives, so it was more able to be 'polished in a soldier-like fashion'. It also had to be regularly cleaned with 'Blanco'. One of the big advantages of '58 webbing was that the Army dropped the Blanco requirement!
Believe what you will..... it was as it was, due to efforts to one; carry Bren mags and two; make a set that was a great deal lighter than the P08...
britishmuzzleloaders they could both be true? The specs could have said: to carry Bren mags and be lighter than the '08 set'...and then the '37 was selected out of all of the qualifying submissions by...but it was just a dit that our old RSM told us, and he was a WWII veteran still on the LSL at that time. Who knows? He could just have been passing on a typical squaddie joke about the kit...
"He could just have been passing on a typical squaddie joke about the kit..."...... yes, very much so... :-)
@@britishmuzzleloaders It only needed blanco to keep national service men occupied and I remember standing orders prohibiting the polishing of brasses, maybe someone was worried the buckles would be rubbed away altogether! I've seen quite a bit with black steel fittings, I'm assuming they decided brass better served the war effort by being made in to cartridge cases.
This type of preservation programming needs charitable endowments.
Certainly it is educational on the level of public television historic programs and documentaries, from years ago.
The History Channel doesn't come anywhere close to the detail of your videos.
That is very kind of you. Thank you.
Public funding is a very intense undertaking. With funding comes control. We who enjoy Rob's work need to do the Patreon support. I do. Consequently we would be able to voice what topics we would be interested rather than someone who has no interests "suggesting" content and delivery. Rob is a treasure, send him some of yours.
@Robert Dougherty Good luck trying to get funding in this politically correct anti-gun climate. Even UA-cam has demonetized all gun video channels, and it would be cold day in Hell when the mainstream tv channels airs a program on guns for any reason even one for historical documentary. Even public libraries have removed books on firearms from their shelves.
Great vid l didn't know this about the ammo and it would have been difficult operating this way
It seemed to work just fine during the war.... :-)
Great vid. I love you man. You too Blokey.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great job guys (as usual)
Thank you!
That was a good video, but I had a hard time reading some of the white subtitles over the white ground in the lower left corner of the screen.
Time has changed a bit,mate .... epic . hang on to him
Ah 2018. We had it so good back in those days.
Indeed!
That stinger...boooooooooo I love it.
Fascinating.
Cheers!
Great video. Well done, chaps.
Cheers!
I think the basic battle tactic with the rifle/lmg squads was alternating supporting fire. The rifles would open fire from the initial position while the machine gun set up. Then once the machine gun opened up the riflemen would reposition. The process continued back and forth, until they gain advantageous firing position on the target.
At least that's the way an old manual described it... I always wondered if it ever really worked out in practice...
It sounds likely the way you're describing it, and such things will likely have happened. Then, one may beg the question how effective that tactic is.
As you might expect, battle is never as it is in the textbook... if movement was the goal, then the firefight had to be won first.... that is what the Bren was for...
You're correct at the most basic level - 1, 2 & 3 phase attacks. Each phase is alternating fire and manouvre with the final (or only) phase being the riflemen assaulting the enemy position, ideally on a line perpendicular to their covering fire.
You'd want to avoid taking on the whole task with just the resources of one rifle section though. At platoon level there are another 2 rifle sections, the "salient point" then is likely to be the Bren is credited with an effective range of 800yds while rifles are only supposed to be good to 500yds combined fire effect, 300 as an individual weapon (if you're a better shot than me and the enemy obliges by standing still in the open).
So, if your advance to contact goes reasonably to plan; the point section's gun will manage to return enough suppressing fire to keep the poor riflemen at the very sharp end from being annihilated, most likely without much redistribution of ammo, while one of your reserve sections manouvres to assault. The whole drama played out with your remaining Bren being shovel fed mags as fast as possible.
@@hlund73 The army, or someone, made a short black and white video which showed these tactics in the 1960s. It was shown to some schoolchildren.
The Brits should have put 10 or 15 round pockets on the sides of the Pattern '37 pouches. 5 or 6 on each pouch. That way they could carry up to 150-180 rounds easier to get to than having to dig them out of a flopping bandolier. Maybe put a ready grenade pocket on the pouch too. The pouches could still carry BREN GUN mags and or packets of loose rounds for
reloading the mags.
Like the way the French Model 35/37 haversack carried 2 FM24/29 mags in one cargo pocket and 5 x 15 round packets in the other.
The ease that Rob was getting his chargers out as compared to The Bloke shows why that would be desirable!
I believe that this is talked about in the video. Simply not needed.
Do you know if Tommy Atkins took more ammunition for his rifle than was stated on paper? The WW2 loadout seems a bit light on rifle ammo for even brief engagements, much less sustained contact with the enemy.
For context, I was struck by the increased ammunition load carried by US infantrymen in Korea carried on average 192 rounds of rifle ammo when the textbook load was 48. I wondered if the British Army saw similar developments.
As an aside, Use of Infantry Weapons and Equipment in Korea is interesting, and although draws questionable conclusions at times, does illustrate the fact that at least in that context even the squad composition was highly to adapt to situations on the ground.
And on the BAR, the average squad had two, not one, for more firepower, and most apparently discarded the bipod. One squad even had every man with a BAR!
I am sure that it happened. If you look at pictures, knowing what was "at least" carried, there is scant evidence for the carriage of a lot extra.
I know that 3 RAR marching up in Korea in 1950 had multiple bandoliers as SOP, each rifleman taking 100 rounds in charger clips that could also be loaded into Bren magazines if necessary, so at least some Commonwealth forces did take as much ammo as possible.
Ammunition is a variable and flexible thing... Conditions in Korea were hugely different to those in Western Europe... Look at the loads that were taken into the line and compare it with those carried in Normandy for instance... it speaks to one thing... logistical support (or lack of it). Ammunition carriage has nothing to do with nationality. I can guarantee that the Glosters, or the PPCLI carried the same kind of loads as did 3RAR.
@@britishmuzzleloaders True, I wasn't trying to claim that the Australians carried more BECAUSE they were Australian, they are simply the first instance that came to my mind.
@@coryhall7074 Got it.. I was just referring to the fact that all types would have, at any given time, carried more than what was prescribed based on circumstance.
Very enjoyable video, Thank you.
Cheers.
BR (Bruno) EN (Enfield) Bren, yet another interesting video,
Yes.. Bren. :-)
id like too add something to this as a gpmg gunner served in N.I. for 12months we started off carrying 50 round belts on the gun ready to go which turned out disastrous as we were patroling through hedgerows and climbing fences you would loose about 40 rounds being ripped off most of the time without notice"footnote you would loose a months pay for every round lost". So carrying belts around your body would not work well. later on we adopted drum mags which just made the gpmg cumbersum. in the end we just settled with 5 rounds on the gun and ready with 200 round belts.
another note we still carried bandaliers for the 5.56 rounds even tho we had mags rounds were on clips to load the mags.
Great anecdote! Thanks for sharing!
@@britishmuzzleloaders love your channel :)
Great info and entertaining. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Brilliant as usual!
Thank you!
Rob & Mike I'm sure both of you are aware of Othias' and Mae's channel C&Rsenal. They sure are a deep well of information about historic military firearms.
You might be aware that if you watch the Episode on the Long Lee Enfields, you might see a familiar face... :-)
Is there a best mustache award for UA-camrs because I think you'd win it.
Thank you!
BREN means BRNO / Enfield . Brno are excellent Czech gunmakers . As were Enfield .
And those cloth bandoliers they're still used by the US Army today I picked up one it was used for blanks Fort Lewis and 85-86 year
Nice!
16:16 Bloke casually tucks the muzzle up against his Jimmies so he can have two hands free. Dang, son!
17:47 Imagine the German terror when they see British troops that can actually rise out of a Bren carrier and fly!
What's the issue? The rifle is unloaded...
@@britishmuzzleloaders Just the example. I know both you guys are careful about such things. That's all.
Watched because of Bloke, will keep watching because of Rob.
Thank you!
Very interesting article! Everything actually stems from the battle of Isomebuwla (excuse spelling) Ammunition the carrying and supply had always been a big headache, we had the heavy calibre of the Martini then the lighter .303 round to the 7.62 better ballistically but still heavy and rates of Fire have increased exponentially putting undue weight of this section carrying ammunition hence the move to the new size of the smaller round now the argument still goes on because of the stopping power. Our problem with winning the firefight to dominant over the enemy so basically you have got to win with a heavier rate than he does to allow you to get your men into an assaulting position.
I am not familiar with that battle, but sure enough, there has been an evolution of fighting arms and equipment from time in memoriam...
I have heard several different unrelated people who served back then say this line or a very similar line "The Germans feared the Bren gun.".
Name a machine gun that wasn't feared by those on the receiving end...
If a Bren turned up and started poking at you it meant there was a least a platoon about armed with a further 5 or 6 of them. If there was a platoon out there the rest of the company was on it's way as well. Backed up by another reserve company tasked to follow up on the assault if the first company were stopped. I would be scared as well.
So what you're saying is the P08 is individualistic and rightwing and the P37 is cooperative and leftwing.
No, that's what you said.....
A wonderful video. For a moment there In the beginning, thought you two were going to stop shooting and get into a discussion on the Lewis vs. Bren guns.
Back then, shooting slow and steady, with those bolt actions, was the way to go, so 150 rounds was a good combat load. Need any more, then that runner better be swift footed as Mercury. As for WW2, that load seems a bit too light, in my opinion. Should have had a dedicated squad, just for the machine gun and ammo alone.
A dedicated squad for the MG?.... that entirely defeats the whole purpose of the Bren as an LMG... having a whole section on the MG was the tactic of the Great War... having the Bren at section level, enabled fire and movement at that level.. rather than the larger grouping at the platoon level that the lewis had provided... smaller level tactical flexibility is more advantageous...
In Afghanistan, American troops came up with a mod for the SAW that allowed then to carry an entire backpack! of belt-fed ammo. Literally a walking machine gun nest. The idea quickly spread to other auto or semi-auto weapons. The design and manufacture was done by a specific part of the unit that was there for the purpose of implementing soldiers' ideas such as this one. Only in the US, eh?
Actually Rambo came up with that idea, I think...
5:13 LAW AND ORDER
Dear lord is the PNW background beautiful. I'll never move away.
This is Canada... This video was filmed near the "South Coast"..... :-).... "Pacific Northwest" of Canada is up near Prince Rupert. Just poking fun of course...
Thank You! So where were you? Canada or Switzerland?
Canada.
Seen plenty of photos of German soldiers carrying machinegun belts around their necks.
Yes, but the point was that system had inherent weaknesses... great one belts that either needed to be carried in a box in the hand or on the back, or around the neck which exposed the ammo to contaminants like dust, mud etc,.... mags in a pouch, although not without there inherent weaknesses, made for easier manoeuvre....
Yeah, I suspect just a movie thing. I had a 308 linked belt with about 50 rds for a short time. Fooled about with it over my shoulders and man, the tips of those pointy bullets really dig into your neck. Can't imagine the pain of the weight of a full 250rd belt pressing into my neck. Not to mention tripping over the ends dangling around your feet. Doesn't seem very practical.
As always guys an informative and fun video.
that ending Im dying XD
00:39: "Oi, kilt man! Don't ye know about the Lewis 1915? The Madsen 1902? Don't ye know about the very concept of LMG's? Those were already around by 1900".
Oi, yeah... LOTS of LMG use in 1914.... LOTS....... Of course I know about those weapons... Were they used in 1914?..... Nope...
Bloody marvellous.
Cheers!
I think the SMLE no.3 is indeed the best rifles made during the two world wars, that rifle has been used by the brits, and other commonwealth countries around the world
It certainly stood the test of time.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Yes!
I wish i have a lee enfield
Sorry to nit pick but here's a tip for bloke on the range, the correct way of wearing the bandolier is over the left shoulder if you're a right handed shooter, you are handicaping yourself by left hand wearing it.
One of those things that, in the flurry of getting the concept and talking points down, was somewhat overlooked... You are completely correct in that it makes it easier over the left.. But,.... plenty of photographic evidence that suggests it wasn't as "clear cut" as one might think... lots of examples of right shoulder slung bandoliers...
Great video, any chance for a video comparing British, French, German and Russian webbing for both periods? The best i can think of is the video by the BBC on the uniforms used by the British and only touches on German and French kit.
Probably not as I don't own any or any of those rifles... In passing perhaps, but nothing in depth.
A pity, you and bloke have a talent for taking a topic that should be dry and boring only to make it engaging and thought provoking, thanks anyway
@@stephenbond1990 Perhaps Mike would be able to cover more of that kind of thing.. it's a good topic for sure!
I met an old Rifle Brigade veteran from Snipe action....he was a Bren No2 during North Africa and beyond. He said, that “most soldiers shot hundreds of rounds. I never fired a single round. I came home with big callouses on his thumbs from loading Bren magazines”
Haha! Thanks for sharing!
Fantastic. Thanks
Cheers!
Doing the lord's work, sirs!
Cheers.
Great video, thanks.
Question: were army rookies armed with new SMLEs or used ones....I'm assuming new ones were assigned to the old sweats but as with a lot things withe British Army could be strictly 'randomcentric' 🤔
....would an issued rifle stay with the 'owner' for the duration or until broken, lost etc?
Depots would have had their own rifles, issued to recruits as they came for training.... Once they were trained and sent to battalions, they would have been issued whatever that battalion had in their stores.
Britishmuzzleloader: *talks for more than 4 seconds*
Bloke: "Mhm"
It was a great time taking about the subject for sure.
Whether that's polite or impolite is very regional. Where I'm from it shows that you're listening and is considered polite. I know that's different elsewhere but I can't name specific examples.
@@jobdylan5782 I often wonder to what extent their conversations are scripted. After all, neither of them were actually there at the times mentioned.
Is there any documentation of individuals scavenging extra mags for Lees? Hiding them from Officers like the ww1 Canadians picking up Lees.
No.
The Swedish army use to have the 2 bagsystem to, did use it in 99.
Interesting!
@@britishmuzzleloaders regimentpolnocny.prv.pl/img_upload/stridssele_1.jpg
I miss the zany antics with clips and magazines.