The Mk III* SMLE: Shooting with Great War Anti-Gas Equipment - Part ONE-
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- If you would like to support the Channel you can do so through our Patreon Page.
/ britishmuzzleloaders
The explanation of the first use of gas by the Germans should be taken as "poison gas"... The French used a form of tear gas in 1914 which was not lethal.
Britishmuzzleloaders is also on PLAYEUR! Follow us there too!
playeur.com/c/...
And Follow us on FB for updates and projects!
/ britishmuzzleloaders
For your Martini and Snider needs email Martyn at xringservices@yahoo.com
For your P53 Enfield Rifle-Musket or Short Rifle ammunition needs, Contact Brett at - www.papercartridges.com
And for further reading on all British Victorian (and earlier) arms stop by the British Militaria Forum and say hello. britishmilitari...
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Genuinely admire the dedication and research work that Rob puts into this channel.
Thank you.
I'd be willing to bet that the original mica lens was likely worse than the plastic stand-in even in the best of conditions. I have to believe any of the earlier versions were incredibly miserable and probably very limited in the protection they provided, but still far better than a lungful of whatever they happened to toss at you at the time. Thanks for doing this. I'm not sure how much fun it was to do, but it was really interesting. Looking forward to the second part.
Having accidentally created chlorine gas when cleaning, I can tell you, even a minute exposure can mess you up for a couple of days.
Thank you. Not too terribly fun... but worthwhile and a long time coming...
@@SonOfTheDawn515 I've managed to inhale the vapor from concentrated hydrochloric acid without knowing what it was.... Definitely cleared my sinuses out !!!!! but left me feeling crook for quite a while. Can't image what the poor buggers on all sides had to go through with gas warfare!
Fascinating, thank you very much for providing this video. I will never forget the first time I was required to shoot with an M18A1 protective mask in basic training. I had just shot an expert score for qualification a few days previous, but now I was missing badly even at fairly short ranges as it took some time to figure out how to shoot while wearing the mask. Later, when I got to my unit, the first time we conducted training in MOPP 4 conditions, which involved the mask, hood (we hadn't used those in Basic), gloves, a jacket and trousers lined with rubber impregnated with carbon, and ridiculous rubber over-boots, I was appalled how how difficult even the simplest activities were, and hitting even the 50-meter target was difficult. Wearing it on a shoot and move live course was a nightmare. I can't imagine using that gear you had on in the insanity of WWI conditions.
Sounds horrible!
One of my additional duties in the US Army was NBC-NCO (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Non-Com). I would plan and execute the Battalions NBC training, and CS-Gas chamber exercises. Much running noses, copious amounts of snot and crying always followed a trip the chamber. ^~^ Rifle qualification with the M17 series of Gas masks was... ummm.... interesting to say the least. Sometimes one would feel the need to preform contortionist movements just to get a peek at the weapons sights. Top marks for sticking it out to the end. The best feeling was always removing the wretched thing from the face.
Yes, getting the thing off your face.......
@@britishmuzzleloaders much like the face hugger from the Aliens franchise. o~0
I have a What Price Glory reproduction of the US version of the British SBR. I haven't tried shooting with it on, but now you got me wanting to try it to see if I can shoot better than you did. I also have to wear glasses under the mask to see what I'm aiming at, so I foresee me having a difficult time outshooting you.
The American version is just about the same...
Another thing that shines through in these videos is the amount of time you have spent with a Lee Enfield. Every movement is instinctive.
Thank you for putting in the time, energy and money to make these videos.
Very kind. Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent video again, thqnks for sharing.
My grandfather served in ww1 and i vaguely recall him saying that some "chaps" use to put a thin layer of animal fat on the inside of the eye lens to reduce misting up
Yes, that might work!
Cold War-era Soviet gas mask had soap/wax/grease-like crayons kitted.
Later ones had plastic replaceable inserts with some sort of anti-fog coating on it.
Hmmm… if someone made me an offer, and said I could go shooting but I would have to put my head in a bag, or, I would have to go to the dentist and get cavities drilled…. I would have to think about it for a while….
At least when the army makes me do this in (marginally) improved kit, they have the decency to pay me.
For you, my friend,... I'll do this for free. 😀
Ah, yes! I remember practicing squad maneuvers and shooting drills in MOPP 4. Probably more efficient than WWI equipment, but still cumbersome and so incredibly hot inside the suit & mask/hood.
Not a whole bunch of fun for sure!
What was a great video. Cant wait to see part 2. I have lots of time in modern gas masks and mop gear. Its extremely difficult in modern Equipment. I couldnt Imagine how difficult that must have been with ww1 Primitive equipment. On top of the burning of the skin by the gas without a full suit covering the skin. The suffering of every man that Experienced a gas attack With or without
All the equipment on would have been Horrendous.
Indeed!
Rob. Omg. By and far the making of this episode is a testament to your dedication to this channel and content creation. I think wearing the Hypo hood, running without falling down ( as epic as that would have been on film), and somehow managing to get two shots on target should get you a Gunddie.
Yes, falling down is epically funny... (see Kitcheners Wood)
What an AWESOME look into the peculiarities of the topic. I always wondered how gas masks would affect individual marksmanship.
Cheers!
I always knew that the gas really just made the fighting harder, but good lord this put it in perspective. Can't even imagine how more vulnerable I'd feel to artillery when having to take my helmet off
Imagine when there weren't any helmets in the first place!
@@britishmuzzleloadersRussian infantry didn't wear helmets at all in WW1 right? .......Great video by the way looking forward to watching part 2
This video definitely makes me appreciate the M40 I was issued a lot more.
Indeed!
So finally got around to watching this. I used to re enact 1400s warfare which of course requires armour. By far the biggest challenge is downward vision, we take for granted how much we subconsciously scan the ground in front of our feet.
Helmets of the time either came with a detachable or lift able visor or something called a beevor which was sort of an armoured chin which protected your front neck and throat and usually had a hinged clamshell which would lift to protect the mouth and upper jaw.
I'm of the option that visors were never worn or closed on foot unless absolutely essential.. ie under missile attack because of the problems caused to downwards vision, never mind claustrophobia and breathing issues. On horseback this wasn't an issue per se.
So Agincourt the French knights jogged across 500m of muddy freshly plugged soil and were forced to shut their visors due to the volume of arrows. Having seen Rob's challenges here and from mu own experience of having to wear a closed visor on rough ground (modern health and safety regulations) I would conject that the lack of downward vision, the mud and ground and several thousand men crammed together had a lot more to do with the disaster those knights suffered.
So gas.. more effective as a terror weapon and the hindrance it has for the infantry forced to fight in reduced vision and claustrophobia. Unless you've tried to do some physical activity l, especially under stress, whilst wearing such restrictive kit, it is difficult to appreciate how bloody awful it is.
Training can help.. my sword master used to suggest that I cut the grass wearing my bascinet with the visor down to get used to wearing it... and this was as awful as you would expect.
Interesting insight.
Part of our drills in the '80's was SLR in NBC kit and S6. Bloody awful 😂😂
The demist/antifog tube in the kit was also useless.
Similar experience here... Cheers!
Great field, forensic archaeology, please keep it up. Wonder what effect the protective chemicals in the hoods, intermixed with sweat, had on the skin and eyes?
Don't know, but never read anything substantial about it...
Thanks for the reply. Shall have to have a trawl for info when i have a moment.
I love every of your videos they are always so informative love your dedication. Greetings from Austria❤
Cheers!
Man, just imagine trying to hit an actual moving enemy, approaching through the smoke and mist of an actual battlefield, whilst wearing these contrivances… The stuff of nightmares. ☠️
A whole new paradigm for sure!
Having served in the CAF back in the late ‘70’s, I know how difficult it is to shoot with a mask on, never mind having to run around sucking wind in one, but those masks looked absolutely horrible … lol 😅… great presentation.
Oh they were....
Fantastic! I'm glad you're doing this series just giving an insight into how difficult it was to fight in those masks.😮
Unbelievably so....
Well done Rob!! I dofs me cap, but blimey, stuff that for a game of darts! 😅😅👏👏👏👏👏
Hahaha!
Another excellent and educational video, Thank You!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I felt claustrophobic just watching! The wet hood, anybody for waterboarding themselves? Guess it was better than dying blinded and gasping for air! Great video!
Not even to the hard part yet...😀
Can't wait for part 2. you brought it apon yourself to test everything gasmask from WW1 to the modern era now hahaha
The WW2 respirators have already been used...
1 hell of a history video loved it 👍👍A hell with my 2 big toes👍👍more bless you for it
Cheers!
Thank you very much for enduring the trials and tribulations of doing these tests. Greatly appreciated!
Most welcome!
Your videos to me are the best on you tube i look foward to all your Honest assesments of historical events and the equipment used i am always facinated by the your hard work and effort to give us such wnderful content Thank you
Thank you kindly!
Rob, thanks for putting in the effort to deliver a quality look at a complicated issue.
Very welcome!
Training with 1990s gas masks and full NBC suits was hell, it must have been terrible in those days.
It would seem that way... but the kit must've worked, at least to some degree.
Rob, I do love the fact your covering this problem of the gas mask. A+
Cheers!
Great educational content as always.
Thank you!
Good bit of practical history (as always), all of those gas counters look miserable to use, but obviously not as miserable as lacking protection in a gas attack.
Looked like really hard work.
Wait for Part 2.... 😀
Excellent video as always Rob, will part two feature gasmasks from WW2?
Someone didn't watch the end of the video.... Hahaha!
this is honestly something ive never thought about but should have. just breathing through a scarf in winter sucks with glasses. i can only imagine how bad a gas mask on a wet and cold battlefield would be
Not my most favourite project, but glad I did it!
Sir your programs are just BRILLIANT we are so lucky 🙏 you 🎉
That is very kind. Thank you.
Great video, yes, but I'd like to see McKenzie make an appearance.
He'll be back for something...
... which is why we still (or should) issue and practice with nbc gear and bayonets besides entering and clearing trenches
edit- and why we cant have decent facial hair
Haha! Indeed.
I run a night shoot monthly, one month I flooded the range with smoke and ran the match with a gas mask and a mosin.
It was astronomically more difficult.
For sure!
I can attest that shooting with a gas mask is awkward, even for wearing inserts for glasses. At least the 2x rifle quals that include wearing a gas mask were easy, 50m -100m targets only.
Nice!
Outstanding as always. Thank you.
Most welcome! Cheers!
one of my favorite rifles in my collection...
I pity these soldiers who had to wage a “modern” war with “rustic” means.
A different time for sure...
hello Rob, what all you do endure for science. Great video, thanks a lot.
You are most welcome. Cheers!
Can't imagine how bad it was for the lads in those days; I joined up in 1984 and trained to use NBC kit including the S6 respirator, a huge improvement on the WW1 kit. It would get so full of sweaty fog it was pretty much impossible to aim properly; the consolation was that the enemy would be in the same predicament!
Indeed!
Brought back memories of shooting an iron sight M16A2 and attempting to work on jets in NBCW gear. Could mostly get to the sight with the latest XM45 mask but the MCU/2 forget about it, you're looking over the sights. Also the prone position is the worst for pulling off a sight picture with any respirator. Had a Soviet gas mask and got to really mess around shooting with a mask on and more or less gave up on using the sights. Just as loading and operating the rifle with a gas mask is by feel, so is the shooting. All you really need to pull off is a "minute-of-man" shot and even rounds coming close can stall an attack.
Lot's of difficulties, for sure!
Fascinating and beautifully-presented as always mate.
Thank you! Cheers!
Quite enjoying your self inflicted misery for the benefit of our viewing pleasure or errr science
Seriously though outstanding video that shows the hindrance and enbuggerence of attempting to function in your protective equipment
Agreed.
It would be interesting to see how the German styles compare with their different designs
Germanmuzzleloaders, has a video on that.... 😀
Oooo the secret rival lol
Very well done thank you.
Cheers!
I started watching your videos a few short years ago while restoring some no1mk3* and no4 mk1T rifles that were about to be scrapped. The content and quality was so good I tried to binge watch all your stuff!
Thank you!
I've spent a fair amount of time in chem warfare equipmet and even with the modern day stuff, it is extremly hard to function. Frireing an M-16 in a mask in winter is difficult at best. In my case, I had to lay my head horizontally on the stock just to try to get a sight picture
Interesting!
Hi Rob, an utterly superb view into the difficulties faced by any soldiers since 1915, let alone just the Great War, but your Herculean efforts are so greatly appreciated by those of us who study the period.
Very kind, thank you.
How did you know that I needed a little “Stache” time?!! Lord I hated NBC training - hard to shoot descent with the M17A1 on.. ugh
Haha! You are welcome!
😢 Again this mith that the Germans were the first to use Gas. I fact the French were first, even if they used just CS gas!
Yes,... that is the point... tear gas is not poison gas.... this was noted in the description.
Germans never noticed being gassed
Absolutely brilliant testing under as near the real situation. 👍
Cheers.
Good Evening Sir 😇👍The SMLE is one of the most beautiful Lee Enfield Series 👍👌😇OUTSTANDING Shooting Reenactment 🧐👍Cheers 🍻🍻
Thank you!
I played with an old face mask with small box respirator and discovered that if I kept it on long enough the mist on the glass became almost clear when enough water had collected that it was a movable puddle.
I didn't try shooting or even writing.
My face was very wet when I took it off. Ugh.
Activity tends to change the paradigm just a bit...
Another fantastic video! I cant wait for part 2. Thank you for your suffering for historical shooting.
Cheers!
Good evening from Syracuse NY USA brother and everyone else
Cheers!
Another wonderfully informative and truly entertaining piece of work! Thank you sir for your continued dedication.
Most welcome! Cheers!
And there was me expecting a gust of wind up the kilt.
Haha!
doesn't seem to be a fun but it is very informative video(but where is Mackenzie lol) thank you(is it me or did the start of the video start blurry?) / lucky did wind up with a squib in the barrel / was it due to the mask or did the rifle give you troubles? /
No it wasn't fun.... 😀 But a rewarding and long awaited project... glad its done, however!
Back at it again with amazing stuff. Truly an inspiring creator !
Very kind!
Regarding gas and gasmasks, I am actually kinda surprised the Russians have not used lethal gas in their already illegal war against Ukraine (what's one more crime against humanity on the rap sheet, am I right?), but regardless, the gasmask is most definitely staying around as part of a soldier's kit. I still remember that rubbery plastic smell of the gasmask I used during basic training in the Finnish Defence Forces in 2007. As I use glasses, every time we did any sort of gas attack exercises, I had to also stow my regular glasses safely and use the clip-on glasses attached to the gasmask to see. Ah, the memories.
While commenting on details of ongoing current events isn't the preserve of this channel, yes, respirators and protective clothing aren't going anywhere...
If you're going to spout history, you need to get it right. The Germans were not the first to use gas on the battlefield, the French were. "During World War I, the French Army was the first to employ tear gas, using 26 mm grenades filled with ethyl bromoacetate in August 1914." The first German use of gas was not until October 1914 at the battle of Neuve Chapelle against British positions.
Having said that, the Gremans it seems just took a que from the French and improved on it using chlorine first and other agents as the war progressed.
First, did you read the description? That point is acknowledged... Second, what does tear gas have to do with anything?... The French efforts were completely ineffective and not lethal... no one in their right mind would equate the exceptionally minor use of tear gas with the mass use of (fatal) chlorine. Thirdly, when on your soapbox, one must ensure that the facts you spout in support of your argument are correct... Neuve Chapelle was in March of 1915 and there was no use of gas....
Man I saw someone outside recently wearing a Soviet style gas mask, one of those all rubber ones that goes over your head. I can't imagine it was comfortable.
Nor can I.....
I was experiencing vicarious claustrophobia during the hood sections. I felt anxious just watching you. I’d have to be threatened with gas to wear one.
Great illustration of the imposed inefficiency of these masks.
Thank you!
There's a gent on UA-cam (Channel name History Hit) who has made very interesting videos on British WW1 kit, including an in-depth on Gas-hoods, which I was immediately reminded of on seeing this video. I think he lives in Canada now (But I understand that Canadia is a "Bit Large" so travel may be an issue), and I think the two of you would be able to work together very well on this sort of content. I think he's ex-forces, so can be somewhat trusted around firearms, and is a bit of a dab hand with a longbow, too.
Also, don't be too hard on yourself with your shooting in this video. Your marksmanship is likely a lot better than if you were trying to shoot while suffering the effects of mustard gas.
It was a worthwhile project,... not the most fun, I will admit, but worthwhile...
Just a correction:
"During World War I, the French Army was the first to employ tear gas, using 26 mm grenades filled with ethyl bromoacetate in August 1914. "
As mentioned in the description, yes….. but not poison gas….
I'm glad I watched more before commenting I'm glad you chose replica masks I didn't want to insult your always meticulous preparation for these vids but I was worried for you, H&S guidance states always treat early respirators as suspect ie containing asbestos ☠️ unless specifically informed otherwise 👍
Not to worry,... all good... even my real respirators are good to go...
I have one of the Lithgow Rifle No I Mk III* dated 1942/43 that were found in a warehouse packed away post war in the late 1980's. I got mine around 1994 or so.
Nice!
Or as we called 'Wipers'!
Sure thing.
I'm curious if the adoption of the third pattern helmet was do to the ability to get better protection on the top of the head. Considering that assuredly the shooting accuracy had to be measured better with the second pattern. That being said the threat of shrapnel had to play into the third. Very interesting.... Would love to know the thoughts by the troops between each pattern. Lot of questions.....very cool research
No, it was for protection against more types of gas and something that was more robust....
If I wake up for a nightmare tonight shouting GAS GAS GAS I am blaming you.😷
Haha! Hopefully you slept fine!
Shooting with the S10 now seems like a piece of piss compared to grand-dad's respirators. As always, cheers Rob! 👍
Certainly a real eye opener...
A good video
Glad you enjoyed it
I'm a bit horrified at the notion of a damp fabric bag being the only thing between me and a cloud of poison gas. How effective were they, really? How long until the chemicals dried out?
Well, they were used until 1917.... effective enough...
Imagine having to do this 'for real'. Knowing that if you haven't put the kit on properly or there is a tear etc, you could easily die a terrible death.
Indeed...
So you didn´t have the urge. to rush forward to beat the target to death. after all it´s the Huns faoult. that you have to have that be their and have that uncofteble stuff on. that was what I felt when I was a recurit. Ok the Hun wasn´t the target of my rage.
Uncomfortable and glad the project is done!
good job and covering something I always wondered about
Glad you enjoyed it. Part Two will be out soon!
I saw old film of gas attack on british trench it was horrible some not getting masks on quick enough 😳😳
Indeed.
I own a smle × from 1917 . Great gun but the ammo is expensive.
Nice. Reloading certainly helps the pocket book....
Bravissimo. Hot work Rob but far worse to come in Part II………
More to come for sure!
I love the amount of effort you put into these.
Thank you!
Always a good day when Rob posts!!!
Cheers!
I have to ask but how did the gas affect the nethers of the chaps in kilts or were they safe
Burned a bit,.. .but not until Mustard Gas was it really bad...
303 only takes 24 grains of powder? Seems really anemic for a rifle cartridge.
That is my loading... replicates the earlier Mk I-VI round nosed 303 cartridge...
Were there any know health side-effects from the chemicals used in treating the masks?
Was the small box respirator a one size fits all or were they produced in different sizes?
Probably, though I don't have any reference to those details...
Here's a man, suffering for his art. :-)
It was not exactly fun, but meaningful...
Magnificent work as ever Sir. Those who have shot in respirator and helmet are right with you in that moment of pulling it all off! After over a hundred years of development we now have respirators that are easy to breathe through but terrible for shooting in.
Thank you Neil!
Had to be really bad for those that wire glasses.
No kidding.
Very interesting - I applaud your determination.
I hate to think what the hood with the original mica sheet would have been like - inflexible, cloudy and probably introducing a fair amount of refraction.
Mica is (or can be made) relatively flexible. Probably not that much worse than polycarbonate really.
Very true - the modern stuff at least - but all the older mica windows I have seen, on instruments and so on have been relatively thick and a bit cloudy - of course it is perfectly possible that is due to ageing and at the time of production it was much more transparent.@@chaimafaghet7343
Not the optimum, but replaced fairly quickly... had to start somewhere in the days before plastics...
Hated shooting with a pro mask on
Yup.
Now, that's dedication.
Cheers!
This is fantastic
Bravo!!
Thank you! Cheers!
I always knew it would be miserable wearing one of these gas bags/masks, and now I know for sure. I got claustrophobic just watching you...
Haha! Not my favourite project,...
The glycerin mentioned in the soak formulation is cheaply available and can help further replicate the experience.
Spoiler alert: it will not be pleasant. While harmless (widely used in food and cosmetics), glycerin makes skin and fingers sticky, and is a total mess to touch and work with. I bet it will get to the lips and the wearer will learn its uncanny sweet taste. I also can imagine dirt sticking to the mask's outside quite well. Unlike water, glycerin does not evaporate, like ever, so there will be less of a wind chill effect. Water will dilute and wash it off, hence the waterproof bag liner.
Interesting!
Fascinating work! I love your attention to detail Rob, I wonder how bad communication would be hampered with each of the separate examples
For sure! Cheers!
a carlyle bandage/dressing would probably work for the veil mask! i've heard more than once the gas particularly mustard killed off the kilt as battle dress!! the small box respirator, you always hear small box was there a large box as well? it might be interesting to have a German vs Brit mask shoot off!
I got a reproduction of the BVR after the fact,... too late to include in the project... that said, while it might have been interesting to include, I might move that wearing a pair a goggles, wouldn't have any real meaningful effect on shooting the same way that the hoods or SBR did...
With the Hypo Helmut having a Mica viewing area you would risk of the Mica braking or fracturing with any handling. My Grandfather was in the 48th Hylanders when they were gassed, He and a lot of others contracted Pneumonia later and died in the early 50s.
Indeed... hence why it was replaced... have to start somewhere, I suppose...