New tree climber? Buying new climbing toys? - Coffee break with Climbing Arborist
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- Dan gives some tips for new tree climbers about equipment selection, where to focus and spend their money on arborist gear, what will and will not make you a better climber in the early stages, and not getting caught up in the hype.
BUT, don’t cheap out on the necessary equipment like harness, rope, hitch cord, helmet, boots, chainsaw pants otherwise you’ll regret it.
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All killer points. I started 4 or 5 years ago on a Blake's hitch split tail setup. As I progressed, found needs to upgrade certain pieces, namely lanyards, and ascenders. Looking back though, if I started then with the rig I have now, I would have missed out on a ton of learning. I'm all self taught, by youtube and books, so seeing a real guy make these points is great.
I hope everyone here climbs safe, and takes care of themselves while climbing/working. Thanks for the video.
Great Advice. When I learned in 1994 (from Dr. Zahn), we were taught on DRT three strand line, ascend via foot-lock, all knots, no mechanisms, not even carabiners. We were told that if you can complete jobs like this, you will be able to adapt to anything that comes along later. Granted much of the stuff we see today wasn't around then, but he purposely didn't expose us to all of the mech. You don't know what you don't know and we thought that we were using the latest and greatest. We learned strategy for accepting new stuff; low & slow, etc... That method of learning served me well. Because of the way I learned I've been able to accept that I don't NEED a new system/stuff when it comes along. I can adopt it for the right reasons such as I can be more efficient or burn less calories. By the way, I added carabiners as soon as I could and swore off three strand line for anything but rigging.
As a new climber. I really appreciate this information need more videos like this for us new climbers.
If you look at his past videos, there is a wealth of knowledge for new climbers. check them out, this is a man to go to when starting out.
@@rrssmooth6643 yes alot of knowledge.. iv learned a few things from his videos.
What gave me a huge boost in efficiency was getting a hand ascender. Whether DRT or SRT there is far less wear and my hands and fingers pulling rope or rubbing hands against bark on vertical stems
This video came to me at a good time, I had the ZigZag in my shopping cart and decided against it to put the money towards a better helmet and rigging line. This video echoed why I made that choice. Thanks
Overall I agree with you completely.
I would suggest don't go too cheap on your basic pieces of equipment. Buy a good quality rope and a saddle that is comfortable. You will be using these for a while. I personally think the Jet step is a good investment. Spending an extra $30 for a basic piece of equipment that will serve you for a long time and reduce the wear and tear on your rope seems reasonable to me.
I must say, I’ve heard a lot of this advice from others, but as a relatively new climber, who has had the good fortune/misfortune of trying a spectrum of different tools for this work, I feel vindicated in my early purchase of the Zigzag. I work on mostly pines with globs of sap dripping all over them. I’ve ruined plenty of rope quickly, and the ZZ performance on a variety of ropes, and especially once they get pitchy, is very consistent, and that consistency has helped me get more efficient more quickly. I also wish I would have gotten a nice saddle from the beginning, but I wasn’t even sure if I actually had the nerve for the work, so that’s the reason I would have to agree that if one isn’t very determined from the beginning, just get a suitable harness and a good rope and learn to footlock with a Blake’s hitch until you are sure that you’re actually comfortable getting 50’ up in the air. I wasn’t sure until my fourth climb or so :)
I have just started aswell for a hobbie really and i realised on my 2nd climb my cheap tree work harness is a waste of money.
I should have just got an even cheaper rock climbing harness first and then if i passed the fear test get a good tree harness. Now i just wish i had a rock climbing harness and a good tree climbing harness.
I am in this exact position. Started working with an arborist 6 months ago. Have been up a tree a handful of times on the boss's gear(top arborist and bloke). Just bought my own basic kit and i really prefer the idea of prusiks and the more basic set ups. The history of it and the learning it all rather than spending 1000s on facy looking gear that just imitates what ppl have been climbing on for 100s of years. One of the best/exp arborists i know climbs with 2 prusik loops.
Going basic is laying a foundation for a climber. After that, move on to the cool stuff. Good video.
Thanks for the advice, it sounds consistent so far. Over the years I've been tinkering in my trees with my rock climbing gear, borrowed a friend's arborist gear, and recently found a rope bridge harness with side D's for $70 new-this purchase really got the ball rolling. My obsession started with thinking about DIY removal on two months groundie exp. Since my initial gear purchase, I have pruned a medium sized tree, cleared tall hanging storm damange, attended a tree walk with an urban forester, volunteered at a tree climbng competition - where I met some great local arborists. I've been slowly adding gear and I'm getting closer to removing my problem maple. Rigging solo on the cheap is a challenge-I may end up rigging my first top with a 10 year old dynamic rock climging rope. My first arborist climb line is only 70-some ft after I chopped a lanyard length off the end. I wish I had spent the extra $20 for a Petzl Eashook and $20 for one eye on my rope. If I had, I could easily upgrade to sewn eye lanyard and safely use the hitch climber pulley a friend gave me.
I am self taught and after watching hundreds of videos and buying a knot book I spent over $4,500 on ropes n gear and love it. I only climb for fun. My Treemotion S Light is awesome. Buy quality so it lasts and go Low n Slow. I have three different rope wrench set ups and that’s what I prefer over my other top brand devices. I have learned a ton from watching your videos thank you.👍
Coffee break idea: using the tail of your climbing line. Second tie in, different type of system, light rigging?
Noted, thanks Jamison
Brand new climber here, got my climbing assessment next week. I bought 2x hitch climbing devices from dmm, haven't even prgoressed onto them yet. I'm still prusik thrusting up trees getting about. Basics first!
i'm 20 years old, from italy. i study mechanical engineering, but i use to tree climbing as a hobby to trim or fall trees for members of family or friends. your videos are awesome, i could learn a lot from a person with a lot of experience as you. so thanks a lot master!
🤙👍
I started over 3 years ago went straight to SRT when I wanted to learn and then cut down my own trees. I then went into tree trimming. I like climbing without spurs but it is much harder. My combo works pretty well.
Hitch Hiker 2
Positioner 2 (cam wears faster than I thought) with a prusik backup
CT Foot ascender
Saka Knee ascender
Double sided long lanyard
Focus on learning skills, learning to tie knots is free 👍
well said Dan, I started on a Blakes hitch and although I only used it for a short spell it made me a better climber.
Not to mention if you drop your gear out of the tree you can get down on just a rope.
@@nate2838 very true, always good to have a plan B and plan C even.
@@MattGlynn a groundie with a good arm helps alot, better than having the throwball shot at you.
Started out three weeks ago, no one to teach me so I’ve been teaching myself low and slow, well thought out moves and very slow and very low. Got a roe wrench and just learning srt. Will start learning different methods as I go just to cover the basics until I find the one that works for.... open to all Duce and help, thanks guys
Had this debate with myself, been relatively new in the business, when time came to buy my own equipment. Arrived to the same conclusions, finding all the shiny, as you called it, gear pretty irrelevant at the point I'm at. Bought a Rope wrench at a great price, a ClimberHitch, a 60m DrenaLine and a Pinto, a cordino and 5m of 10.5mm rope (next will be a bit thicker) for my lanyard, a Pantin, a Croll with some elastic band to connect to the main ring and foot loop I made with some flat chord I had, as it's not a "security" element. A couple Ocean 8mm 76mm cordino and some Petzl and DMM carabiners, enough to be sure I'd never feel short of them when I need them. A couple Caritools. A Petzl Sequoia SRT harness and I think that's all. I already had some stuff: pants, boots, helmet, etc and some people I know game me a MRT rings setup. It's money but nothing compared with the investment you have to make to use state of the art gear, the difference is huge. And, as you say, I wouldn't notice it, honestly. Plus: I love being able to use hitchs, make many different knots and feeling I have that resource in case I need it in an emergency, for example.
Thanks a lot for all your info and videos. All the best from Spain!!!
Thank you so much for all the videos you put up, they have been a tremendous help. I'm 35 and just getting into climbing and agree with everything you said. It is what I am most concentrating on. Master the basics before you try to get advanced, you might end up in a situation where you need the basics knowledge to get out of a jam.
Ok, thanks for the advice. I'll keep it simple for now.
Completely agree. Keep it simple to start. It’s taken me several years to build up the skills to justify more expensive gear. Without that benefit you wouldn’t know the pitfalls that you will undoubtedly experience during a life of tree work. No device is perfect, they all have their benefits but some are better than others in different situations.
Thank you. I been on the fence on what I “need” to get to start climbing for over a month. This helped a lot.
I’m glad it helped 👍
Thanks for taking the time to share your valuable experience.
A word of caution, do not use the VT (voldataen tress) hitch if you are just getting started. This knot can be a bit tricky. Along these lines, always start low and slow and be sure you can reliably engage the hitch before trusting it to keep you safe.
That being said, i would recommend learning a blakes or taut line before going to prusiks. Blakes is more consistent, and less prone to rollout. Tautline MUST be backed up with a stopper knot and is prone to tightening as you climb so requires tending more frequently. The tautline can also be tied one handed if necessary.
As far as where to put money when, buy a good rope, a decent saddle, decent lanyard setup, and a couple climbing rated carabiners. And add a foot ascender as soon as you can, they really help save wear and tear on your body.
The more comfortable the saddle is, the more comfortable you will be spending time in it. I say decent because saddles can range from $125 to $700. The saddle is about comfort. As Dan pointed out, the saddle doesn't make you any better, or less good (to a point, gear attachment options help, but when you are starting, you just need a hand saw, chainsaw (maybe), and a couple spare carabiners on your saddle).
Once comfortable with managing your hitch, i would add an adjustable friction saver. Having less friction in the moving system makes going up and limb walking far easier.
Learning single rope, i would get comfortable with DRT first. If your hitch doesn't function properly it is far easier to hold yourself in place by squeezing both lines together than holding onto a singe line. Wait until you are completely comfortable with hitches, how they work, recognizing engagement, and weight testing them is second nature, before moving onto single rope.
Loved this vid. Thanks. Just a suggestion for another coffee break - solo rigging basics.
I don't remember exactly when I developed what was later called the Blake's hitch, either late 60's or early 70's but I still use it at times. I couldn't be called a new climber by any stretch! Hitch cord tie-ins and self adjusting lanyards became standard use later and I still don't use much mechanical assists. I work alone much of the time and don't get in a hurry, closing in on 80 so I'm kinda stuck in my ways and not too interested in investing in equipment!
Thank you for saying this Dan. I'm a relatively new climber. I've footlocked and it sucks. I'm very happy with my DrenaLINE, rope wrench, and hitch cord. I'm in no hurry to get the absolute latest and greatest, I'm happy with the 5 years ago latest and greatest. Cheers brother.
Totally agree
The modern gear can help improve efficiency also even long term with biomechanics and limit some of the long term repetitive use injuries. But I really believe everyone should learn the basics from day one and to be able to do this work at a high level with minimal gear . Then add stuff slowly and broaden the game and the tool box.
I actually like creating friction hitches, like said you can use that knowledge both vertically and horizontally! Keep up the great content,! Climb and work safe!!
I just started school 2 weeks ago and I'm so happy I saw this video! Thank you for the advice and i now plan on using the mechanical stuff as little as I can to learn more knots and techniques
Good points, thank you for sharing. I've learned a lot of basics from you right from the start. Started on a hitch climber and a hitch based lanyard, both distel. After a couple years on a lanyard with a hitch & pulley, for example, a guy can really appreciate the Zillon lanyard. No more fighting sap & pitch binding up the hitch. Smooth tending. Always grabs. My absolute favorite piece of kit. If you don't experience the downsides of old tech, can't fully appreciate new tech. Nice to know how to use the hitches, but glad it's optional.
Great comment Dave
Really enjoy this segment, keep it up
Thank you buddy 😃
Dan I like to think about getting some gear and learning how to use it as your “system”, MRS or SRS or whatever, mechanicals or knots or such. Stick with it and learn it inside out. Then as new things come out, if you can, try it out. Ask yourself is it simpler, does it eliminate any in-tree-fiddling (dropped parts like original RR v.s. RRPro), is it easier to inspect, clean and replace parts for if needed. How’d your “system” work when wet or all sapped up? Only then work new stuff into your own “system” practicing low and slow as they say. After the last great wave of “new stuff” I really have to clearly see an advantage before laying out anymore highly devalued Canadian dollars for “stuff”. The newest Petzl tie point rig kinda left me feeling like this (or maybe I'm just thick). Simple is peachy in my book.
At the same time, it IS good to have some capital equipment redundancy so if something gets hacked Silky-like, you have a spare or two laying around - some stuff is getting harder to find these days and wait times can be a bear if you’re a production shop. Folks often don’t think about “capital spares” - sometimes I even buy two of something - say foot ascenders that may do the disappearing act under leaves or something. My two cents. Cheers, Happy Easter and keep producing your great videos Dan.
Thank You
All true !!!
Thanks for your comment 🙏
Dan, I already did everything that you are telling us "not to do" here in this video. I agree with you 100%. I really wish you made this video 18 months ago. Lol. Oh well. I've got one of the fanciest climbing kits a green horn should never have. Glad I'm so passionate about climbing in this old mans body. Hope it helps me get even older.
🤣😂😆😂 Sorry we were to late...
Climbing double rope however would have to say zigzag would actually help because of friction..you can release it fast wherr hitch is safer but you can't instantly get slack as well.
I think this is great advice. I am coming from a very weird position. I started with a pretty basic wesspur kit, but i bought it for my own property management (i have a ton of trees!) Over time I've invested quite a few $$$ but I justify the investment because it makes the experience more enjoyable for me. I do love doing it but it isn't my job. As you were saying about using mechanical advantage though - I missed a lot of this experience and am only now going back and investing in knots and hitch learning. There is nothing worse than fumbling around 50ft up not clearly understanding how to do something.. you want to know when you're up there not learn! :D
Great video! Thanks!
Great video, I studied arb at college in 2007-2008, we were taught DDRT (although at the time i thought that was the ONLY way to climb) with two prussiks and 2 karabiners, I have only ever done tree work at weekends and in free time along side my full time occupation, still climb that way to this day. I do find the gear and all the different combinations quite intimidating, but would love to broaden my knowledge, it's just difficult to do it while working full time outside of the tree life. Channels like yours are a great help!
Methods for advancing tip or setting lines to traverse trees are always helpful. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I'm trying to learn about basic tree climbing so that I can take up tree camping. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. You have a great way of putting your info across and it's been a big help to me. Keep up the good work and happy new year.
Thank you for your nice comment. Glad the information is useful
Also seem if you start basic and later one of the fancy bits of gear breaks you can fall back on some simpler. Ohhh bad pun
Dan, thanks for all the help. I live in the redwoods and would love to see a video of you climbing a large redwood or fir (without spurs) when you cant get a thowball very high up and the lower branches are too far apart to climb by hand? Basically another version of your "Simple & safe tree climbing ascent technique" but for big firs/redwoods. thanks so much.
Oops, too late. I spent thousands on new gear right from the start and most of it hangs on a wall in my shed. It isn't that easy to find someone to mentor you in this business and many of the videos online are really old and that makes things somewhat confusing. I know you're correct in your suggestions as I've heard that from many others too. The basics are the basics and you really can't do without them.
I'm the guy that's been climbing a very short while because someone I hire is so much faster and efficient. I'm considering taking a local beginners course around here starting next week although I likely already know much of what they would teach me. That said, there is something to seeing a professional in action personally and not just online. I've learned a fair amount from you and others, but very little in offered in a sequential order. I could design a training course that would be super helpful, efficient and orderly as that's the type of stuff I excel in. Sadly, I don't know enough yet to teach anybody much of anything....lol. Nothing like a know it all that knows next to nothin..........
Thanks for the video as always Dan. I thought I might be getting all this stuff figured out here in another two hour video but nope- still got to do it the hard way. I'm going on 58 years old and I never really planned on being a serious arborist at my age. I'm in excellent shape and I do enjoy climbing but there's a lifetime of learning that never ends as you know. One's chosen equipment is just one of many variables and options in this field of arboriculture.
I agree...the real schooling starts with just a rope and saddle...I learned on taught line hitch...there wasn't much of this new gear...now...I use a combination of all types of rope works and tools...climbing starts with comfort😁👍
Thanks for the insight. It definitely makes me feel better about the somewhat basic equipment that I'm starting out with.
super info thank you greatings
Still using prussik with rending pully for your video 2 years on 🤘 thanks bro
Awesome 🤙
It's funny you put this out. I've only been climbing a few years. I just had a conversation with a newer guy about the value I saw in starting out with just a Blake's and and a lanyard for my first year or more. In the last year I upgraded to a hitchclimber, but I still have the fall-back of just using the rope if I need to. If I need to double crotch with my tail, tying a Blake's hitch is muscle memory. I'm getting ready to move into SRT and was just looking at a mechanical...not so sure I'll get one now.
Definitely move into using stationary rope systems, they have huge benefits. You can’t go wrong with a rope wrench
@@ClimbingArborist just ordered one plus some other gear for the same money I was going to drop on a Rope Runner Pro. Thanks for the timely video. 👍
just got started, I did like the idea of the zigzag for people still not confident/uncomfortable trusting their first few hitch tying attempts.. True beginners
Although, that said, it's very sensitive and could be jerky and even sketchy in the wrong hands.
Very happy I learned to tie hitches, though, I use them for rigging all the time.
I tried the 9mm Epicord, and I love it, your gear recommendations have been very helpful
Man, u could've told me 1 year ago, before I spent like a fortune on my new equipment. My colleague told me, but the force was too strong....
All that ZZ, speedlinekit... doesn't help when ure new and learn how to maneuver in the canopy....
But we probably, if budget isn't tight, do all the same mistake....
All the best and keep going, teach me master!
Thank you for the advice it means alot to new climbers like me.
I’m with you learn the basics then worry about the fancy nice gear I climbed most my career with a Blake’s on trim jobs I started in the fire service doing rope rescue we had very minimal gear but rope out the Yang so prusiks was our jam I’ve hauled up 3 people at once with just ropes and a few carabiners but those fancy rigs are nice but learn with nothing then it’s all easy from there 🤙
Great video as always, wish i had the ability to learn on double rope but some of the first trees i climbed and took the same ones down a few weeks later didn't really have the ability to run double rope on hitches (40-50' ash trees, little to no lower limbs, took the lower branches off to climb to the mid point and top) my first and current set up is a unicender, which im happy i learnt and am confident with, and currently learning more with different hitches and looking to start rec climbing using them soon
Great advice.
I'm a new climber
👍
wise insight there.
Hahaha im new to climbing just as a hobbie triming trees on my property and i bought a rope runner.
Wish i watched this earlier! but to be honest its taken alot of learning knots and hitches each day or each time i climb until i even understand this video.
Im glad i got a rope runner at least it got me up into the trees to start learning but i still always tie a backup prussik hitch because being new i struggle to fully trust the rope runner.
This video is 100% true as a new climber id be better off with a rope wrench set up.
🤙
excellent
Awesome!
When you go from mechanical, then use a Blakes hitch, you want to be comfortable about using a Blakes hitch, or you could loose confidence going from mechanical to not. so using Blakes hitch before mechanical will make you more comfortable. What I found anyway.
Correct, but a good and expensive saddle should be brought, even by beginners
I can't soak up the information enough....your almost at an app level for information content haha
Can I ask...I can't find anywhere the topic on "how to choose type of accension choice for each type of tree" ...hard to explain but I'm having problems knowing should I flipline up to the fork or position your rope first and accend with a flipline and saftey line and foot accender etc
Is it left to the creator and gear available? I have alot of trees with a 5m high spar then most people have topped at some stage so alot of brush topside. A little tricky to get a throw line into 😆
No.. you need a rope runner and a 200ft hank of Drenaline.. that’s what every new climber needs. Bomb proof and versatile.
And then they are the epitome of ‘all the gear, no idea’
I've done one semester of an arbory program through a local college and I've already done a few small jobs. At the moment, I'm just trying to hold off and save up money, though I really want to swtich over from MRS to SRS (the program begins with mrs, and then 2nd semester is srs). I think I can manage for now though because most of the trees I climb are shorter than 50 ft
What I would like to see is these videos added to your podcast so I don’t need to come to UA-cam for them. Other then that, these are great.
We will be doing this soon 👍
For 300.00 bucks you can get a 200ft blue moon..hitch climber and epicord 9.3.. new or old it's hard to beat that's what I would choose over all devices..if ibhad one choice. Can always add a rope wrench from arbsession tether caralink. Later..if you needed..best set up truthfully..and more trust worthy
👍
still only use a prusik
I started with a grigri and an anchor line years ago.
Now I got the new taz lov and tons of other stuff.
What counts isnt equipment but learning climbing with the bear minimum. With that you get really creative and know what you really need. And before you buy: Get in a store and test equipment, I never bought untested and that saved a lot of money
Edit: Btw, does anyone know some good gloves? I havent found any good ones yet, lol
Define good? Personally i like the blue latex dipped ones. Atlas fit is the best balance of grip, durability, and good fit with minimal catching in your hitch. The blue latex dipped gloves from home depot come in a close second, slightly more grip, slightly less durability, and they don't fit as close to your hand so they are more prone to catching in your hitch.
Or do you want leather gloves? if so, the Notch Arborlast are my favorite (use them for running ropes, latex dipped for climbing) good grip, about the same as bare handed, and good durability, with a good fit with rounded fingers so tying and untying knots is as easy as it gets with durable leather gloves.
How do you want a harness to fit??
what products do you use to clean your equipment? i climb pines in a very hot environment and the pine sab makes moving through my system very hard to pull pursiks on my lanyard and climbing rope.
Good common sense, get good foundations and build gradually
As a (very) new climber, when I get up to about 40ft, I start getting vertigo. My muscles tense up and i start questioning my equipment. This is pretty exhausting which is bad for climbing of course.
I don't consider myself afraid of heights, and I know with practice it will all get better. Do you have any tips for the absolute beginner to help deal with vertigo and trust their equipment more quickly (besides practice)?
Thanks! I love your channel!
I run two lanyards with me, a medium light one & a longer one, along with a tied in climb life line. Prefer to always be double tied in on ascent descent when ever practical possible. When using a saw, hand or power, triple tied in two positioning lanyards & climb life line, some situations two climb lines & positioning lanyard. If I am on gaffs spurs, sawing hand or power, double tied in such as two lanyard or climb life line & lanyard. Clean, inspect, and operational check all your gear prior to ascent, using binoculars view your tie in point from at least two separate or opposing angles. Stay low and go slow, do practice recreational climbing when you can, build on your experience, proficiency, confidence yourself & gear.
Spend as much time as possible climbing, but don’t always go high, just climb in your personal time, get comfortable with your equipment and you will start to trust your equipment. At this point the fear fades into the background. Most people feel or felt exactly the same as you, it’s an unnatural place to be so it’s your body and brain trying to protect you.
I've never come across someone addressing this. Is it worth mentioning in a video?
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*treestuff has left the chat*
😆😂🤣
"All the gear and no idea"
New climber here! Very avid about making sure to get basic hitch chords down before relying on any mechanicals. Glad to have internet instruction. Made about 5 climbs total now and making some videos of my first experiences. Check out my channel if you’re interested in giving a a noob some pointers 😓
Dan well said Nowadays it's a fn fashion show and all about the gram.
If you're just starting out why not learn while using the latest tech? Buy once cry once..... then learn and study hard.
Many experienced climbers don’t even like some of the latest tools, and struggle to use them efficiently, so why have an inexperienced person use this gear when they don’t even have the fundamentals down?
@@ClimbingArborist Experienced climbers who don't like the new stuff most likely don't use it, why wouldn't they be unfamiliar with it? I didn't say anything about not learning the basics, I plan on enjoying that process as well. Buy once, cry once, then learn and study hard. Thanks.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇬🇧
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