SUSPECTED CHEATING AT POKEMON WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS ALREADY? Pokemon TCG Worlds
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2016
- Pokemon 2016 World Championships is going on now and there is already suspicious looking behavior from the TCG side of Pokemon worlds.
Pokemon TCG Worlds Twitch Stream (Suspected Cheating / Deck Stacking Play) www.twitch.tv/pokemon/v/84495...
Pokemon TCG Cheating on STREAM! • Pokemon Player Cheats ...
Pokemon Yugioh Championship Stream Cheating • 2 Huge Instances of Ch...
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As someone who has played yugioh for 12 years, (God I feel old) any judge worth anything should have caught this instantly. You can't prove he was cheating as he may not have been paying attention but it is VERY suspicious and normally a warning should have been given the first time but the fact that it was done a section time and no judge caught it when they are watching.....what are they being payed for?
Liviu Dragomir the way he holds his deck he was able to see the cards on the bottom, thus he plants the cards he needs in the bottom half of the deck. He opponent cut his deck the same way every time, this means if he was paying attention he could very simply thing to put the cards you want a few cards before the middle of the deck to draw them next.
Liviu Dragomir when you see that the other person is cutting the deck the same way over and over that's how he took advantage of that. Yes if the other player shuffled his deck it would have failed him but he didn't, and as such manipulated the cards to where he thought the other person would cut. At the end of the day the blame is with the person that is cheating not the other player that missed it. Yes he could have stopped it but if he is cheating it doesn't matter if he is caught it's still cheating. Just because you did 120 MPH in your car on the free way and didn't get a ticket doesn't mean you aren't breaking the law.
pull that shit in ocg here in japan, you are going to be dq instantly.
Yusei255 Then the Judge is either bad at his job or is lying, I've played yugioh for over 10 years and if someone did that in yugioh they would get a warning the first time and a game loss the second. You CAN NOT shuffle your cards to your left as it allows you to see the bottom cards this alone is concerted stacking.
Second the bottom half of his deck isn't shuffled AT ALL and his does this not once but twice, If you watch the stream he will see he sits in his deck for a LONG time after he picks his cards. In his first "shuffle" he moves cards from the middle of the deck to the bottom half and then that half NEVER moves at all.
Yes your right you can't 100% prove he cheated. But you saw him walk into a building with a knife walk would with blood all over it and when you go in you fine someone stabbed to death. You can't prove he killed the person as no one saw it but it is VERY likely.
Yusei255 So your saying shuffling only have the deck is fine? If you watch the whole video you will see that the bottom have DOES NOT MOVE. Answer this question if you order a large pizza and the delivery guy only gives you half the pizza is that ok?
...Cheating in a card game, come on humanity, we should be better than this...
+iloverape ur name fits ur comment holy god
+iloverape
As much as I want to disagree with you, you have a point
ikr it's a game, okay kewl u won a pokemon card game how old are you 10? That's how I'm thinking through this whole video
Rdx99
yeah true but you have more of a chance to win if you don't cheat not all judges will not catch it
Card games are where cheating as a concept originates from...
My brother busted a cheater at a Yugioh Tournament once, funny part was it was the owners son. Basically my brother won cause the owners son since he was caught was immediately disqualified.
My brother and I aren't allowed to compete anymore in that small store... it ain't fair.
then fuck em go somewhere else man.
Orthranus i was agreeing with him
Well, why aren't you guys allowed to play if the other player was cheating?
+Rose Mary because it was the store owners son that cheated so he can get away with it. if call him out or rat him out they'll kick you out i have a local like that luckily i have another local i go to every Wednesday.
Hylian Warrior Oh, well that's not fair! That's awful! Your brother won fair and square!
There should be a spectator/referee that shuffles the deck for them.
If I remember correctly the opponent can shuffle the deck if they choose. so there would be no need for a spectator/referee to shuffle for them.
There is a table judge and 2 commentators watching
bribing at pokemon worlds? yea no not likely lmao.
+Fatblue246
player: "I'll give you 20 Stream Siege booster packs if you let me pull off this cheat, bro."
Referee: "but if you get 1st place, you get 6000 boosters! So, make it 200 boosters, and throw in some Break Through boosters as well... cause I need more Mewtwos."
player: "you're killin' me over here!!"
lol
Are you trying to say that a Nintendo or Pokemon International employee in his or her 40s would not be tempted by 10 percent of the winnings and a make out session with a fat teenager? Yeah, you're probably right. Why don't they just have officials or a machine shuffle from now on.
I don't know how the card games work but that shuffle doesn't look like a proper shuffle.
I've never played Pokemon cards and even I can see that looks fishy af
Extremely casual TCG player here:
That is not how you should shuffle your cards. The whole idea of a shuffle is that you do NOT see the cards you're shuffling.
I have seen better fake shuffles from a kid
at the yugioh world's all the competitors were informed beforehand that they had to pile Shuffle and we're not aloud to shuffle other ways. so this kind of thing couldn't happen
That's how us nerds shuffle. They just saw the cards.
TRIGGEREDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDQVFCBCCVFYMGFBVFDBFDBDFVXFBGHMFDV
I just keep my best cards under my wrist band.
XD
+Fry Hope in america
wp wp i conceide to this comment
Im alive and stuff
I found a new way to cheat....
Put your best cards in your eyes :3 when they turn around take them out
Watch out we got bandit keith over here
On top of that, he got all of the cards he needed the entire match.
Examples:
He got a dimension valley to kill the Seismitoad
He got a megaphone, which he runs ONE, to kill a seismatoed
He got a FFB to survive the Seismitoed
He topdecked the Lysandre to finish the match
He got a Battle Compressor to kill the seismitoad TWICE
And the announcers said that he's had a lot of good luck before, put 2 and 2 together and...
completely agree but how did you manage to spell seismitoed different three times
+Kabr The Leigonless I have no clue
Do you realize that everything you just listed is completely possible and actually can happen even if your not cheating ._. it's called luck
+Jared Zander winning the lottery is luck too. but I'm still not a millionaire.
I may not know much about Pokémon cards but I’ve always thot in these tournaments that there should be an official person to deal the cards like in casinos, that eliminate any cheating amoung players.
Maybe in top cut, but even that would be tough. There's so many players compared to judges, and you have to shuffle your deck a lot, often multiple times per turn.
Then maybe someone should invent a deck shuffling machine.
Lance Lindle Lee Obviously they do have those, but I would never put my cards in one, as it could too easily damage them.
And who would pay all those dealers ? i cant imagine a lot of people would be paying 10-20$ an hour to play pokemon (or any other tcg) and i dont think a lot of dealers would be comfitable shuffling a deck worth thousands of $. if people just shuffle the opponents deck instead of cutting it, this wouldnt be a problem.
For big tournaments, thats a great idea. Otherwise its probably not cost worthy
15 years of MTG experience and yeah this is why I shuffle my opponents deck after the present.
I play pokemon and yugioh I've seen it all but I do also shuffle there deck
I half then 2/3 cut sometimes I half then 1/3 cut
@Itsuka that sure would have stopped this guy as to me I believe he is loading the bottom of the deck for the cut. At times I could see him opening the deck a little whilst shuffling to see good cards then fingered his way down (or up) the deck. I guess he'd need a super quick eye but who knows
Me too... having been a player of MTG since it began back in the 90's I would grab his deck, shuffle it and cut it everytime he had to shuffle.
I just grab their deck take the top 90% of the cards cut then I change it back to a top 10% and sometimes shuffle I had a cheaters so confused and mad
As someone who has played MTG for a while, I thought it looked fishy too.
I wondered if other people thought it was crazy live
I just started playing a few months ago but even I caught it. I'm surprised no one said anything, I felt bad for Santini
+Night Raid Rogue you're allowed to shuffle their shuffle, most players just don't because they're lazy
***** I dont think that's harsh. I agree with you. The stakes are too high to be lazy and cut in a competition this huge. Glad Pramawat got knocked out later
Same he looks very fishy
He wasn't cheating the heart of the cards was guiding him
Are you being serious right now?
Buts through the door. Me: ITS TIME TO D D D D D D DD Due- whoops wrong room
:/
He couldn't have been using the heart of the cards, that's a different card game.
+RedEyesRobotics yes I know it's from yu-gi-oh but he can still use the heart of the cards
DCI Judge for many years, and currently going for my Pokemon Professor's license. These were absolutely terrible shuffles... Card faces were visible, he never shuffles the last card, and is couching the bottom of the deck during the shuffle to encourage a cut stack. This is why I've told players for years that sometimes the best cut is a knock. The amount of cheating in shuffles in TCG and clock stalling in VGC have made me really rethink getting my Professor's license.
I do not understand how to play, but I really feel so bad for those TCG-player who play legit, it most be frusting for them..
Okay, first off, Ver, I'm not necessarily a fan, but that's not important. This is a GREAT spot on the cheating. I was at work, so I missed this match, but this is absolutely fishy. Especially knowing the Ultra could draw the card he needs, he really seems fishy. Hopefully they'll take better precautions next year. Thankfully he didn't win this year.
After he draws the valley, notice he doesn't watch his deck anymore.
Did he get caught, I want him caught and banned from TCG?
it won't happen. people stack all the time, and Pokemon never does anything unless the cheater admits to it
Sounds new judges are needed if they wont call out cheating.
like*
Respected and popular are two very different things. He'll certainly lose a chunk of respect after this.
Nah, he sure as hell was cheating. Sleight of hand is something that's easy to pick up and learn, but takes a very long time to master. It was clear that he was intentionally manipulating the deck to his favor.
No doubt that guy was cheating. In a game where you constantly shuffle and draw cards, theres ALWAYS the odds against and having to get perfect draws after an "intense" shuffle is literally impossible especially after the opponent cuts the deck. The way he shuffles is pathetic, you should never ever see any cards while suffling and should shuffle as they do in the yu gi oh show putting the middle part of your deck on the top or bottom and alternate while the deck is face down.
I dont even play TGC and its common sense to know this. Shameful.
I don't know jack-shit about cards but that shuffle looks SUPER shady
shuffling while you can see your cards is pretty much cheating.
It's great to spread awareness but Pram has been playing forever and is well known in the TCG community, you should've researched more and tried to reach out.
I mean well known and established players of any card game can be cheaters. Tons of historic Yugioh players were found to cheat
+Verlisify become a detective u were spot on
You want a fun cheating, Tomoharu Saito in MTG was losing a series in Grand Prix Kobe 2001, and so he just picks up his decks, moves around his cards for no reason, and offers the deck to his opponent to cut. The confused opponent cuts the deck, at which point Saito calls over a judge due to the cut being an illegal action. He tried to DQ his opponent because the game was not going his way! (DW, Saito got both DQd and 18 month ban.)
That is one of the craziest things I ever heard
+James All of those things you said are completely irrelevant. A top player isn't automatically a legitimate player and judges can't catch every infraction. If anything, the history of Yugioh and MTG has shown us that players with a history of topping are just as likely to cheat as everyone else. several players in both have been caught on stream at worlds to cheat and even worlds winners were caught eventually. Some players literally get banned for cheating the second they are unbanned. This is damning evidence that he made moves that have been shown to be stacking, everything about him or his reputation is irrelevant.
Also the video isn't click bait since the title reflects the video and it literally isn't the definition of slander. Also monetization means nothing, my video playing ads doesn't change the fact this looks like cheating and thousands of other people agree
when did you stop playing yugioh?
pendulum
XD
+Verlisify I play magic but I also do a lot of card tricks to do magic tricks and what he is doing is what I do for one of my magic tricks
+Verlisify why pendulum is great
Fortunately, Pendulum is counterable. You can see it coming a mile off, it's components can be removed with pretty much any spell removal, and the monsters it summons can be countered with summon counter, such as Thunder king Rai-oh and Fiendish Trap Hole.
I agree I think he's cheating my brother used to do a lot of card staking and false shuffleing because he used to do lots of magic triks and how that guy shuffled looked a lot like how my brother used to stack and false shuffle playing cards
yep ive done card magic since i was like 11, you can instantly identify a false shuffle or forcing cards
The owner's son shouldn't be allowed to compete if anything.
looks similiar to a hindu shuffle imo
+J4ck Spear0w just google it
If you're gonna cheat, make sure your cheating is believable
oh, thats believable
I believe its cheating XD
+Verlisify OH DAMN
Nah, if a person has to cheat then that person cant play worth shirt and they should be tossed out right then and there and banned why not? >XD
As a magic the gathering enthusiast, it is actually mandatory to somehow interact with your opponent's aftr they shuffle (at least in a high level tournement). The difference is that you are allowed to fully shuffle your opponents deck if that is necessary.
This is why competitive card games should have magicians as one of their judges.
Looking through his deck to see what is prized.
But the shuffling was weird
he already knew what was prized though since he searched several times before
+Verlisify trust me on this but a good player always keeps looking through the deck. That's normal. I see it all the time. I do this too.
+EPIALUS ROCKVILLE think of it also of a reminder too sometimes people forgets what's prized too.
In MTG you may not look for the order of cards in your deck unless a card makes you check it. Perhaps that is one of the functions of the card played in that game, however checking the deck after 2nd shuffle seems suspicious and he even shuffle again
I always cut my opponent's deck differently every time. Sometimes from the middle, and sometimes I'll only move 3 cards from the top or bottom. Because I ain't about to play scumbags
Yeah thats so a YUGIOH trick. He memorize location of the cardsto know where to cut the garbage out
Its in all games, people need to realize people cheat in all card games, I don't care how pure you think your community is.
>> people do realize this but it doesn't stop that at a official tourny this stuff shouldn't happen or be allowed. Im pretty sure if u were doing something u enjoyed and u got cheated and found out pretty sure u be salty.
GravVeral Yeah, my main TCG is Magic, of course there are cheaters there. Alex Bertocioni is a big name .
Why so many dislikes? This is cheating, it can't get more obvious.
Apparently Pram is a fan fave so obviously he can't ever cheat
I know
cred
that's just the heart of the cards, Yugi.
As a ref for most events at my school and a tcg player myself I agree. I don't agree with that action.
I've played MTG for years. A guy at my local game store showed me how to cheat like this, if you can manipulate the bottom card in the cut you can filter what possible top decks you can get when you draw.
6 years magic experience. He's definitely suspicious.
I bet 188439 that you skipped over that number and didn't notice the letter I put in the middle now you're checking the number and you just realized there was no letter at all...
Haven't seen one of these in a while XD
Y
lol, homeboy cheating full on. I caught a few back in my TCG days, I qualified for Yugioh a long time ago (05...06?) dude in the finals had marked cards (this was the entry match to get to the qualifier, not the actual finals), it was when the beatdown decks were the fashion, and I noticed when he shuffled he would hit the corner of the cards in the sleeves together giving them that natural bend they tend to get. But the only ones that had visible bends (like it was folded) was Sangan, Hayabusa Knight, Axe of Despair, and United we Stand, Scapegoat. Every time he shuffled they were all near the top. There was another one in MtG to during a qualifier when I played He tried to hide Forgotten Creation (Discard what you want, draw what you want) after he just "shuffled" his deck, when I played Brainbite. He pretended to slam his hand in frustration, and suddenly he was one card less in his hand near his sleeve.
I hate people like this. With a passion.
Im glad you made a video about this because even I saw this and what really got me on was the bottom card NEVER MOVES! Even when I shuffle my bottom card moves haha. The judges needed to pay more attention on that or the opponents needs to shuffle decks or the judges need to shuffle decks.
He knows exactly what he's doing. Catch people doing it all the time at the local comic shop's monthly TCG events.
I play competitive mtg, and fucking hate cheaters. I use a strange 5 pile cut method. I can see the rage in my opponents face very often.
I hate cheaters and legitimate players at the same because these two different players can be a total assholes.
There were 3 copies of the card in his deck and he spent so much time searching because he was trying to figure out what was in the prize cards. Pokemon TCG is the most important thing in my life and it actually really upsets me that you are clumping it into garbage communities like yugioh.
It isn't even really debatable that this point that he was cut-stacking. Cheating is sickening.
as someone who has played Magic, Yugioh, And Pokémon, This is WAY to suspicious. + the fact he got 2 double colorless and a ultra to Vally. that's a gods pull
Why does Verlisify get so much hate on youtube? He's probably my favorite poketuber and I think he has a lot of great points. Also, it just doesn't make much sense why 1500 people dislike a video where he tries to expose cheaters?
The cheaters get super salty and attack him.
Because he's an ass and pumps out low effort and toxic content.
+Rory McDoogle I agree that Pramawatt is a very skilled player but I also agree that his suffling in this stream seems a bit off. But hey maybe he was just nervous and wasn't consintrating fully on the suffling or something and just got lucky. I dunno but still I don't think it's right to attack someone (Verlisify) who just doesn't like cheating in a game he clearly loves with a passion.
+Rory McDoogle thats horrible logic you should never come to the defense of the cheater not matter who is attacking them and this definitely looks like cheating it was a very common shuffle trick the past two years in mtg
i cheat like that against my friend all the time
hes cheating
God damn, you don't have to even know anything about the TCG to know that that shuffle was super fucking shady.
Now that all the drama has blown over, i respect you sooo much :)
I am pretty sure you can't cheat in any way for Pokken so the least popular stream is our last hope.
as a tcg player michael pramawat is a respected player and i would be ver surprises if this was legit . alot of players shuffle like that
What do you mean if? this is straight footage, its legit and you need to remove your bias. 90% of the comments say SOMETHING is up
+Verlisify true
what do u mean? dont get u
Respected like Ray Rizo Lmao
I do t know who he is nor do I care. If you shuffle your deck in a way where you can see your cards there is a problem. Your deck should be face down whenever you shuffle and I feel that if caught you should be given a specific type of warning that gets you DQ'ed on the third occurrence. I also think that if you have been DQ'ed previously for this you should be DQ'ed on the first occurrence in all subsequent events.
It's like every time he shuffles the other pile of cards it just slide into the permanent place
Haha. I was curious to see what this video was about and I couldn't help but laugh when you accused Pramawhat for cheating. Good one man, what a ridiculous video.
i have more than 10 years of yugioh experience and i am really good at shuffling, and i have played against a few cheaters and it is very ckear that he is cheating!
Why all the dislikes for this vid now? lol.
because some of his fanbase hates this kind of content for whatever dumb reason.
people dislike videos that upset them. them not liking the effort of the creator isnt always the reason
Bacon flavoured Poop They just find it distasteful I guess. I think it's fine.
You can see in the very first seconds of the video that this guy is suspicious as hell: The 1. shuffle he did was with the cards backs to his right side/yes. The shuffles afterwards the cards faces are to his side. As someone who played Pokemon and MTG (or any other TCG for that matter) for a combined 15 years, I can safely say: You only have ONE dedicated way of shuffling. That stuff just burns its way deep into your unconsciousness. If you shuffle in different ways, you're cheating 99.9% of the time.
cut 3 ways, that's what i always do. cutting a deck is an art as well. watch the person shuffle their deck, based on their shuffle: cut the deck based on how they shuffled. if it looks like the bottom cards weren't moved, cut 3 ways: middle goes top, bot goes middle, top goes bot
Oh, jeez. I feel another war.
He was telling the truth about whats-his-face's Raichu. Then DKD and Hoodlum attacked.
***** About what? If its Raichu- Hes right; you cannot get a Raichu in a dream ball legitimately. This- we'll have to see.
***** Its not in mine. Must suck for you.
You said its in your recommended.
So is Fan Fridays over?
i swear this happened in mtg where someone was accused of cheating in the same way, there is for sure videos of it
Old video I know but if they don't have them than they should make special designed shuffler machines like what casinos use.
But if the opponent cuts his deck doesn't it negate the "shuffle"?
cut stacking
i explained it in my comment, but if you place what you want at the bottom, then put a few cards under it, during the cut you move it to the top, but not directly on top
+Verlisify um if he did cheat did he get caught. :/ BTW love the channel and support u all the way
Why so much hate? I think people dont like to see that succes can made (in fungames like Pokemon) with cheating and hacking so they ignore that is possible and hate people for spoting it. I mean we see the Olimpya and no one hate the People who show hoes doping. Why you do that in the pc?
I must point out that you are ignoring the reasoning for these accusations. The evidence is consistent, there has been no hate in this video, it is the opponents responsibilty to watch for cheating not just an offical.
Hey Verlisify,
Just started watching your vids and I love them.
You mentioned having experience in dealing with cheaters in card games, could you make a video of all the ways you've experienced cheaters and their methods?
I know it's a two way street when it comes to showing people how to cheat, but I want to be able to know who is cheating when I play TCG's and cards in general.
Thanks brother.
Yeah, it's really easy to leave a 'break' after shuffling which psychologically encourages the other player to cut to that location. Don't have TCG experience but i know it from standard playing cards and magic tricks.
Verlisify you have to stop doing this
Oh I'm gonna regret jumping into this...
I don't play the pokémon TCG, though I've tried it. I don't really follow the maker of these videos (they popped up for me since I've been watching videos about cheating problems in Esports lately).
However, I've played Yugi competetively for 10 years, MtG for 6 now and I have owned decks and played in tournaments in about 14 different TCG's. And, from my years of Yugi, I can sincerly confirm the cheating stuff in that game. It's made into almost an artform, pretty much everyone knows how to stack, and doing so GOOD, if nothing else because people assume, hey, everyone else cheats, why shouldn't I?
Here, I want to point out that I've never cheated myself. I don't have the pateince to learn how to, and I've also found winning through illigimate means to be completely pointless; I play competetive because I enjoy playing against good opponents, not to earn money or prestige, so I still play mainly for fun, and it's not fun to win knowning you did so on the back of not following the rules of the game.
When I watch this video, and see that shuffling that Verlisify points out, I must really agree. That is not just stacking, it's OBVIOUS stacking. He doesn't even hide it very well, it's almost like he's mocking the opponent and everyone watching. I'm bad at following cards, even if I sit calmly and try, but I can still clearly see that things move in a intended fashion when he's shuffling. It's just so... Digustingly open and straight in the face that I kinda had to comment...
I am not after getting into an argument, just rather getting this of my chest, because DAMN, that was ridicolous.
(I am aware that my spelling might not at all times be perfect.)
Guys I just noticed that in the 2000 Pokemon movie during the end credits there seems to be a familiar figure that looks just like professor hala the figure is near the beginning of the end credits waving good bye to people departing from the island
Times like these, I remember my good friend who taught me to ALWAYS shuffle your opponent's deck
He's American! Of course he cheated! We always do!
lol^
I am not amused *sips tea*
Wow......you are zo foni jiu jou jiu jiu
idc
Ur right I always cheat
the bottom card changes, it's a professor sycamore, then, when he turns it over, to set it down, you can see the bottom corner of the picture of an item card, which is a puzzle of time
As someone who has played Yugioh since August 8th, 2002, and has played Magic The Gathering since December 25th, 2005 I can say with almost 100% certainty that this is cut stacking. Over these years I have cheated in this way only against other cheaters. Overall this isn't JUST suspicious, its clear. Most people don't shuffle their decks "face-up" like he did, due to the possibility of being given a warning. Sadly, during the Avacyn Restored pre-release tournament I utilized this only to test how attentive the judges were. Turns out, nearly none of them are being paid enough to give a shit, as long as you aren't blatantly breaking the rules (this form of stacking wasn't blatant, because its easily countered by the way the person cuts). Regardless, this type of stacking is known by a LOT of competitive players in all forms of TCG, so its not like its going anywhere anytime soon.
i been playing yugioh for 10+ years and that is cut stacking and i am deeply saddened by the fact he did in worlds and on top of that a stream as well
i play yu-gi-oh for 10 years now and i won a couple of national tournaments and the reason i stoped going to national level games is because i lost in the finals against a guy that did something called "contra-cortar" in portuguese which means counting your cards to set the cards that you want on the middle of the deck so when your opponents cuts your deck those cards go to the top. this takes practice and observation because you need to study your opponents cutting patterns mid-game but it's very easy to do once you have learned it.
i kinda wanted to start pokemon TCG because it seemed more legit but seeing this makes feel the same way i did when i lost, sad and heart broken. btw verlisify love you videos keep up the good work
The exact same thing happened at a recent mtg pro tour. When i get on my pc i will find link and add it
Being someone who is still starting out and hasn't battled many people, I didn't notice it until you pointed it out. That is just upsetting. Plus the other guy pulling out a card from his discard without playing a card that would allow him to is just shameful. Why would you feel the need to cheat ON CAMERA? YOU'RE GONNA GET CAUGHT!
I have almost 10 years of MtG experience and that is definitely stacking. He should have noticed and so should the judge after the first couple of times, sad to think top players are doing this
In Magic the Gathering you are essentially obligated to shuffle your opponent's deck after he presents it to you after he has shuffled.
Do you have to cut in tournament pokemon? If not, I would be cutting randomly, staying close to 50% ratio. Eg 2 cuts in a row, then 2 non cuts.
we need jwitz on the case
hopefully not I would really hate something like this to happen. I don't have any experience in card games but like you said I would love to hear other players who have gone against such people who cheat to see what they think about it.
From someone who has played TCG for years, and even some Yugioh experience, I have been cheated on the regionals for TCG, and he actually got caught doing the EXACT same thing. Lmao the things people do disgust me...
That's why I usually table shuffle after I'm done searching...
You can easily cheat with shuffling. I use to be really into card magic and there are literally over a hundred shuffles that can give you the card you want. There are shuffles where you look like you're shuffling and all the cards are in the exact same order. This guy look like he was doing some sideways hindu shuffle where you're forcing a bottom card to a different place.
Michael Pramawat finished second at the 2010 Hawaiian world tournament using a Gardevoir deck. There are replays of that tournament?
What I do (in casual play, don't know if it holds in competitive tcg games) is because some rules define shuffling and cutting as a means for both players to make sure the deck is sufficiently randomized, is I'll actually shuffle the deck as a cut.
When I play competitive, I gently riffle shuffle after each present to make sure it's completely randomized and prevents or shuts down stackers.
he noticed that his opponent was cuting it at about the middle so he was shuffling sideways to make sure the cards he wants are in the middle of the deck.
He cheats in both ways. Not only is he cut stacking but he's also preparing for if the opponent decides not to cut. So it's a win/win for him either way. He's not only keeping certain cards in his right hand, but watch as he's pausing for brief moments, as if looking at his left hand's stack. He's putting certain cards on top that'll also help him out in case his opponent doesn't want to cut.
I have a friend who, when we play Magic the Gathering together, literally looks at the cards in his deck as he is shuffling
absolutely cheating. He literally gets the exact card he needs after every false shuffle.
Okay? I played YuGiOh, You don't cut? You shuffle.
They bitch, you laught. They say you can't then you get a judge.
I played Wind-Ups a lot and rekted a few tournaments.
Definitely seems like stacking. The fact he stared at his deck a few times then shuffled with the faces of his cards facing him was enough to bring up red flags.
so both players have shaymin skyform in play. do they have different moves or abilities like Pokemon cards do or do they just have different artwork(I just collect the cards for the pretty artwork. I have two different shaymin a shaymin sky form x and ex.
It is pretty suspicious, though checking the deck repeatedly I think is to try to figure out what the the remaining prize cards are, or at least trying to figure out if there's a vital card in there to get.
Verlis, your silly, It's just the heart of the cards
You make a very good point! The thing is, Pram is one of the biggest players in the game. While naming of the top 15 known pokemon players his name is sure to come up. I guess I am bias due to the fact that he's been around the game forever and is good friends with the commentators.
2:58 A lot of people all over the world do that… its not cheating, its a method of checking your deck to see which cards you have available, its completely legal
That is Michael Pramawat, one of the most respected and well known players in the tcg. When he pauses during the shuffle it's because he almost dropped his cards, you can see from his sudden movement. If his opponent suspected cheating he should have called a judge. He looks at his deck so much to make sure he knows what he still has left, to know what is still prized (especially since 4 prizes left). He's thinned his deck so much that he has more chance of getting what he needs, tons of known players shuffle their deck like that and you can clearly see the bottom card goes back into the deck.
As a tcg player, you obviously know that knowledge of your resources is important, sine pokemon has prizes, it's even more important so you can figure out what you're not working with anymore. You can see him properly shuffle the bottom of the deck into the middle.
I played the TCG for over 2 years and now I play Cardfight Vanguard, and from all the experienced players I've met I have seen every small detail of how to spot stacking and I can tell you right now that he is shuffling perfectly fine, his opponent cut somewhat differently each time and someone would have spotted something. He was clearly shuffling properly.
If you disagree with me, don't start with the insults and shit, if you are, then fuck off.
However I will happily dicuss with anyone that won't resort to idiotic insults :3
I always try to mix up whether I cut or not, depending on how they shuffle
I have several years of Yugioh experience, and that I can almost confirm as cheating. I know a card trick (with a 52 card deck, like one to play poker or hearts with) where you only have to get a glance at the bottom card once, to specifically grab 4-5 cards that you want. His cards a near a perfect vertical slant, in a position where he can clearly see them, ... I had played against some exodia decks back in my day of playing yugioh, and there was one player, who was able to get exodia on his first turn each game (he did have to dig for it though), however, he shuffled his deck in that same matter... I was a newer player at the time, and I later realized by watching one of his other games, was that he shuffled that way because he knew he could catch me as a fool since I was young and new to the game. He only played/shuffled his deck that way, when he was playing some casual innocent player, and other people weren't watching him, and when he did play like that, he got the full exodia in the same turn...
Suspicious?
I think so
Like I'm not saying that Pramawat is cheating at all, but that style of play, is very sketching and should have an eye kept on.
At the pro level, semi-finals and up, judges should be the ones to shuffle decks.
poker and sleight of hand magic tricks from my experience says he stacked it quite well and pretty much had that "ace in his sleeve"
I've attended multiple MTG tournaments, and the type of shuffling he does is a warning from a judge on the first offense and a game loss on the second. The judge also shuffles the offending deck after the warning is given.
That is the reason why in magic the opponent wets to shuffle your deck after you shuffle it