Just a few fixes here and some other stuff to mention: - Mac's grabs aren't the slowest, since the Belmonts have slower standing grabs - You can remedy the jump height issue on some platforms by airdodging downwards - Saying that up air is just as useless as back air was a massive hot take, because it really isn't - Down throw can also be used with Side-B depending on percent (just like up-B), using the Wavemaker technique - D-tilt into KO Punch is pretty consistent around the 50% range against most characters - KO punch does have super armor on frames 8 and 9, so it's an armored move - Straight lunge and plant down-b aren't that similar - I was mistaking ledge trapping as edgeguarding throughout the video - At the time I didn't know that you could hold down during up-B to prevent snapping If I made any other mistakes, tell me and I’ll make a note of them here.
My idea: Once per stock if Little Mac mashes Up-B during his Up-B animation (fist raised upward), Doc rings the bell grabbing Mac's raised hand and pulls him up and they both disappear. A couple of seconds later Doc rings the bell again and Little Mac is summoned to grounded center stage with 1.5 seconds of intangibility and a towel around his neck to show his time call is _out for this stock._ Also if Mac hits an opponent during end-lag of an attack or move(such as finishing your roll, spotdodge, aerial-attack-type landing lag, ect.) he should deal 50% more damage. That's a counter hit, and don't remember that aerials have almost no end-lag in this game in general and mac is weak to aerials typically speaking. Oh btw everything in this video is good. well done.
Those are actually some really interesting ideas. I didn't want to add too many gimmicks to Mac when talking about him, but you got some good ideas. It would be cool to incorporate Doc into the moveset outside of taunts.
I love the editing in the video, I forget it's really there until it something happens like the subtle rumble at 18:51 from the background noise Made me crack a smile
This video is great! Love these ideas. Playing little mac in comp is a pain but with these buffs and little nerfs it would make him a interesting character to play. Keep up the great work!
A well-explained, incredibly well edited video that covers almost everything. I may not play nor know Mac in Smash Bros, but even I understood the changes thanks to your explanations. Well done, man, keep going like this!
Awesome video man!! You definitely know what you’re talking about and you’re open to the idea of changing previous properties of moves to compensate for buffs in other areas. A lot of people are just greedy when it comes to asking for buffs and don’t think to compromise in the slightest. Good on you for not falling into this category! I watched the whole thing and it was great :)
"no one in the game makes use of all of their throws" Hi, Rob main Also now they added Kazuya to the "lose side b off stage" list. Kazuya in a lot of ways seems like their second swing at trying to make a little Mac.
Haha, Rob, even though I personaly see them only use down throw 95% of the time. Also yeah, Kazuya really does give a lot of Mac vibes. Terry felt like a first step in that feild, kinda like a mix between Mac and Ken, and now Kazuya takes that to an extreme, which is why I really like playing both Terry and Kazuya.
I’m not really one for the ko punch change here, ko punch is satisfying to hit and making weaker but more common kinda takes that away. What is do is take away the damage taken build up and slightly reduce the damage dealt thresh hold. It would make it more of a press the advatange type move.
If Neutral B gives the fist fire to signal, maybe make it like Kazuya's Rage, where before you use the move he gets 1.1x damage. Also maybe with it being a charged move, you can use it as horizontal recovery, which gives your opponent counterplay if they don't want to get hit by it.
I guess the 1.1x damage could be a neat thing to add, but I don't think it's necessary. I don't really think it's something that Mac needs. Also, the recovery thing was something I was getting at in the video, I talked a bit about it.
I think the stars could be implemented by gaining through perfect dodging or perry, stocking up to 3 stars, you use it by upgrading specials and smashes (dealing more damage for setups/more knock back for kills/less tech for combos/ more travel distance for confirms or recovery) which takes 1 star but would have huge end lag if it misses. This would encourage players to weave attacks more trying to find an opening then attacking with a devastating counter attack (not that it's a counter, but the way you use it is a counter) but if you ever get knocked backed hard/ hit enough you loose 1 star, it may be strong but you need to have skill to even gain the upgraded smash and specials, even then you need to hit them with it or else your fucked.
I quite like this approach to stars, but I think there should also be some sort of nerf put in place if this were the direction taken. For example, we remove the super armor entirely, and it gets added back in with stars. That way, there's something to work towards that we're already familar with and we don't just further buff moves that are already pretty good.
@@N3Knowledge thanks, my approach with this was you already have decent tools but it ain't enough to do the job all the time, so the stars would be there to encourage you to be really up close and personal baiting attacks to build up stars for a deadly combo, or hit and run tactics to play it safe, This also would synergizes well with KO meter where you are also encourage to not get hit and keep that lead, Stars help to quicken the pace to leads And make that KO punch deadlier and also have something after the KO punch gets out damaged by other attacks It also fits his personality, you need to be focused and light on your feet to use this effectively. My only concern is whether this too OP but considering it takes really high dexterity and concentration to even use it I think it's fine TLDR; I like the Idea of you have good base attacks and Great Star attacks. It synergizes well with KO, and fits his character well, I don't mind it being OP cause it deserves to be for the requirements to even use it
@@xidjav1836 It would be wise to be cautious about how OP your state would be once you have stars, seen as other characters that depend on recource management would be insanely broken if tuned incorrectly, like Steve. This would definitely take a good amount of testing to get down right, but I would welcome such a change.
@@N3Knowledge thanks a lot for your opinion, tbh this seems to be wierd for testing since it is meant to have a high skill floor to even use this consistently therefore it needs to be really good, but you also need to limit the utility and strength and adjust the downsides to make it fair in competitive play, All in all this might be hell to balance and I'd expect a shit ton of balance patches after it's implemented like every balance patch will at least mention the star meter
@@xidjav1836 I doubt that it would take several balance patches to balance. If anything, they’re gonna make it more underwhelming than anything in order to keep it balanced and not have to bother with small adjustments. We’ve seen how continuous changes didn’t change how broken something was, such as with Bayonetta in Smash 4.
I have a really cool idea that would make Mac way more Punch-Out All your ideas are good and could be implemented, specially the enhanced counter, swapping some numbers around this could work too How about this new mechanic, when in a match against Little Mac, opponents flash red during their recovery animations, or their ending lag. Mac keeps his regular Counter, but when he uses Down-B near a flashing opponent he gets a Counterattack, which stuns the opponent, like Mewtwo's Disable. Unlike Disable however, Mac can't follow up with anything, instead he enters a stance which allows him to press A and B in a certain rhythm to clobber the opponent and deal damage. When the combo ends or they mash out they take a moderate ammount of knockback. This would be a good way for him to punish opponent's mistakes and rack up a ton of damage, just like in Punch-Out
Okay, that's actually a pretty sick idea. Literal Punch-Out gameplay would be fun as fuck to see, and I feel like this would be something that he would have if he were an Ultimate newcomer or even a Smash 4 DLC.
There is one change I'd like to see with Grounded Side B, add some intangibility to Mac's torso on the move. Compared to Smash 4, Mac jumps lower to the ground and it makes it harder to use the move against some projectiles. There are only a few projectiles that travel low enough for him to use it well and some have a tight window where it can be used. Otherwise, the other other buffs sound good
I agree with this. I find myself trying to use side-B over things like Samus's partial charge shot and mewtwo shadow ball, and then getting hit by them when it feels like I shouldn't, so yeah, compensation for the reduced height/distance of of side B would be great.
You know, with the KO punch Idea I have a way to actually implement the "ko at specific set ups" into smash. A split hitbox. One hitbox will be used at the start of the move that is the one proposed however if you attack a foe that is above you such as while in the air or on a platform the power and knockback is reverted to how it is now because typically *that'd be the disadvangage state for characters.* So now you would want to combo KO punch to keep your opponent in air for disadvantage to then punish them with a KO punch. However in return if you hit this part of the KO punch from old smash so now it'd be a punish tool for when you can keep your opponent in disadvantage for a long period of time. But same as in normal smash if you hit this part of the move the KO punch would be reset. This would be to keep players from doing something like up tilt into KO punch constantly.
That's a pretty interesting idea. It would be cool to see implementation of hitboxes that act differently according to the opponent's state to an extreme move such as KO punch. It would be pretty tight to make the hitboxes function as desired, since it could easily be a marth tipper situation where you try to hit the desired hitbox but don't. Either way, pretty cool idea.
In my opinion, Mac is a lot more balanced than you'd think. I think just improving side B to get it back after getting hit in the air, improving ledge snapping on up-B, slightly longer Up-B, is all Mac needs to get to mid tier. The armor isn't faithful, but from a game design perspective makes a lot of sense for a character with a poor aerial game. You need to be able to catch landings, and the armor allows to even punish falling aerial attacks that out spaces you. Its an incredibly important approach tool too, allowing mac to force his way in even when out spaced, again because of the lack of aerials, this is needed. I personally wouldn't change his aerial game, as it's such a good mixup, no one expects the aerial to come out, so no one will tech in time, putting mac his best punish spot.
I completely agree. I know I make it sound as if I don't in the video, but I know how each move is used and what purpose they have (a few of which I admittedly picked up after making the video). His recovery is already pretty decent, you just have to think really carefully when using it, since it's extremely abusable. An overall improvement of his recovery options would significantly help. The more I think about his lack of true combos, the more I think about them as mix-ups. Things like fair into d-tilt or side-B and falling up-air into up-B or KO punch are mix-ups that barely anyone see coming because of how hard they are to reliably land. I'm still not entirely compliant with super armor, but that's mainly because I'm not the kind of player to use super armor to my advantage when dealing with aerial pressure (I prefer shielding, dodging, using up-tilt, but of course they aren't always the best options).
@@N3Knowledge His recovery is bad. It's the worst in the game. No matter how careful you are. All it takes is for you to lose your side B or jump, by being caught in a scenario where the option was forced which happens from as little of a throw offstage, and the odds or coming back have tanked to somewhere in the ballpark of 30%. I was more talking about Mac's tech chase game from his aerials, or reading the option from the tech which puts him in his best state, rather than the raw combo game that comes from it.
As much as I like the KO meter, I genuinely think Star Punches can be incorporated into his move set instead of that uppercut just being his Up-B.I like his Up-B but the stars have more potential than just one move. It won’t be easy, but I’m thinking that Stars could be a fun way to show off your skill in the game. The way to get stars is by hitting an opponent while they’re telegraphing an attack like you would in Punch Out!! NES/WII. Like if you hit opponents right before they can get a smash or special move out. You’d get three stars, one star doing 20% damage, two doing 40%, and three stars doing 60%. You need to take 30% damage to lose them all no matter how many were collected. But they’d be simple to regain again so it isn’t a complete detriment to lose them all but it urges the player to be careful. The punches are uppercuts, basically the KO punch but with three different strengths. Based on the strengths Mac would get different levels of air time, so in some scenarios it’s another recovery option if need be and it won’t put you into free fall. Also, it’s not a Punch Out thing but I like the idea of his Up-B being stronger based on the amount of Stars you have as well. in that case, one star adds an extra 5%, two does an extra 10%, three doing an extra 15%. It’s a way to deal with two annoying things about Mac, buffing his recovery and nerfing his KO punch so people don’t crap themselves every time they here the bell ding. Also, that Side-B in the air thing is genuinely something that needs fixed I didn’t even know that was a thing until now but it explains why I lost of past matches now. Also, great video, explained your ideas very well.
It would probably be pretty difficult to balance a 3-Star mechanic, but I definitely see it working. I feel like 1 star and 2 star would have to be significantly weaker than KO punch, given that it'll probably show up more often, even if having to time attacks the way you suggested can be difficult at times. Having 3 stars have the knockback of KO punch and do 60% would be good I think. Also, I don't think the stars need to do anything to up-B, especially since we just saw it buffed a bit. It's in a really good spot now (at least in terms of killpower), so it's unnecessary to give it stat boosts with stars. And as for side-B, it's not really much of a fix, since from my understanding, the move was meant to be a kamikaze kill option in Smash 4 when it put you in free fall, but I guess since it doesn't put you in free fall, they proabably won't do anything more to it since it still kinda has that "suicide" aspect to it with it not resetting after a hit.
Hm, you make a good point about the Up B. I wrote this out way before the Mac buffs came out. I guess the stars could just function like this then, the screen would just show stars while in game but it’d basically be three meters that’d fill up as you deal damage. A three star still acting like the KO we know and love. One could then be like 15% with like 1/4 the knock back of 3 and two be 30% with 1/2 the knock back of 3. They still hit hard but not enough to obliterate everything in its path. The only thing I’d change about his Up-B now is to just have it work properly more consistently when you land it since sometimes your opponent slips out of it like a wet noodle. A new move idea for his down air but still giving it the potential to spike, in his reveal trailer he’s shown jump roping fast enough to almost hover in the air. It could just be enough to stall his fall, keeping horizontal momentum from a Side B. The ropes hit box would go around him 4-6 times at a fairly quick speed though fast enough to where it couldn’t be challenged. The rope would have a spike sweet spot in front of Mac , having it consistently spike opponents at let’s say 85% instead having to get them to over 170% like with his current Dair spike. Basically making his down air recovery tech into a more normalized move. Also had an idea to give Mac a once per stock heal move, specifically pulling from Wii with Doc eating a chocolate bar in between rounds to heal you. The bar would probably only give 20-25% health back, nothing too crazy. Just not sure how it could be incorporated into his move set besides just being a cool taunt that you couldn’t even use online anyway. Another idea I had involved his jab, it’d be neat if you held down the button he could have a string of attacks like Kazuya but it just hits the opponent 6-8 times total. But you can stop in the middle whenever to lead into other various attacks like his tilts or star punches.
For a purely aesthetic change, I'd rename Mac's current Final Smash from "Giga Mac Rush" to just "Giga Mac". Not only are there _three_ other Final Smashes with the suffix "Rush" (Donkey Kong's Jungle Rush, King Dedede's Dede-Rush, and Min Min's ARMS Rush), but Wario's Final Smash-which was also formerly a transformation-is just called "Wario-Man" and not "Wario-Man Rush", making for an inconsistency.
@@N3Knowledge Yeah, but I'd rather not have _four_ Final Smashes with the same suffix or an inconsistency with Wario's Final Smash. Bowser's new Final Smash being called "Giga Bowser Punch" and not just "Giga Bowser" is fine, though, as Giga Bowser serves as a boss in Ultimate.
I agree that he should be buffed an nerfed, but you shouldn't nerf KO punch that much . My opinion is that it KOs light weights at 45 % mediums at 60 % and heavies at 80% , but also make it decreases at the same way it increases. I'd also want him to add more distance on his side B. P.S. The first time I tried little mac was because he was super buff
@@N3Knowledge Truly a wild and inspiring player playing a truly wild and inspirational character. And I'm just grateful for the information, from everyone who is intrigued, yourself included, thanking you dearly brother.
ngl mac should genuinely have a falling down air in my opinion falling attacks should be used for characters who excel on the ground and need a quick way to get back to it without being vulnerable
I like this video, but I think you're missing the core of little mac's design philosophy. I believe that Mac's aerials should remain hot trash, and his grounded moves should do more damage to compensate, with his tilts dealing low knockback and his smash attacks dealing higher knockback. You said it yourself, you can't jump in Punch-Out!!, so Mac's aerials should reflect this. I think Mac should be much more combo-focused, as the Punch-Out!! games are. All in all, 8/10 video, keep it up!
This is all meant to be hypothetical anyway. This video is meant for those who want Little Mac's overall design to be a little better and a little more Punch-Out lenient, myself included, but I'm perfectly happy with how he is now. I play with him the most for a reason.
@@N3Knowledge Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If we’re viewing things from a redesign perspective instead of a rework perspective, then my original comment ends 4 words in.
@@unny8877 Oh lol. I did push nair and fair more towards the combo side of aerials because that's where they can preform well. Looking back, I might have just made up air more combo focused as well, since it actually has really good combo potential as it is now, it's just that the hitbox is garbage. Honestly, every aerial besides back air could be amazing combo tools with just a few tweaks.
Just a few fixes here and some other stuff to mention:
- Mac's grabs aren't the slowest, since the Belmonts have slower standing grabs
- You can remedy the jump height issue on some platforms by airdodging downwards
- Saying that up air is just as useless as back air was a massive hot take, because it really isn't
- Down throw can also be used with Side-B depending on percent (just like up-B), using the Wavemaker technique
- D-tilt into KO Punch is pretty consistent around the 50% range against most characters
- KO punch does have super armor on frames 8 and 9, so it's an armored move
- Straight lunge and plant down-b aren't that similar
- I was mistaking ledge trapping as edgeguarding throughout the video
- At the time I didn't know that you could hold down during up-B to prevent snapping
If I made any other mistakes, tell me and I’ll make a note of them here.
My idea: Once per stock if Little Mac mashes Up-B during his Up-B animation (fist raised upward), Doc rings the bell grabbing Mac's raised hand and pulls him up and they both disappear. A couple of seconds later Doc rings the bell again and Little Mac is summoned to grounded center stage with 1.5 seconds of intangibility and a towel around his neck to show his time call is _out for this stock._
Also if Mac hits an opponent during end-lag of an attack or move(such as finishing your roll, spotdodge, aerial-attack-type landing lag, ect.) he should deal 50% more damage. That's a counter hit, and don't remember that aerials have almost no end-lag in this game in general and mac is weak to aerials typically speaking.
Oh btw everything in this video is good. well done.
Those are actually some really interesting ideas. I didn't want to add too many gimmicks to Mac when talking about him, but you got some good ideas. It would be cool to incorporate Doc into the moveset outside of taunts.
I love the editing in the video, I forget it's really there until it something happens like the subtle rumble at 18:51 from the background noise
Made me crack a smile
I'm glad someone caught that :)
You. Go register to be hired at Nintendo. Now! I’m a Mac main and I’d love this
Haha that's never gonna happen
This video is great! Love these ideas. Playing little mac in comp is a pain but with these buffs and little nerfs it would make him a interesting character to play. Keep up the great work!
A well-explained, incredibly well edited video that covers almost everything. I may not play nor know Mac in Smash Bros, but even I understood the changes thanks to your explanations. Well done, man, keep going like this!
Awesome video man!! You definitely know what you’re talking about and you’re open to the idea of changing previous properties of moves to compensate for buffs in other areas. A lot of people are just greedy when it comes to asking for buffs and don’t think to compromise in the slightest. Good on you for not falling into this category! I watched the whole thing and it was great :)
"no one in the game makes use of all of their throws" Hi, Rob main
Also now they added Kazuya to the "lose side b off stage" list. Kazuya in a lot of ways seems like their second swing at trying to make a little Mac.
Haha, Rob, even though I personaly see them only use down throw 95% of the time.
Also yeah, Kazuya really does give a lot of Mac vibes. Terry felt like a first step in that feild, kinda like a mix between Mac and Ken, and now Kazuya takes that to an extreme, which is why I really like playing both Terry and Kazuya.
I’m not really one for the ko punch change here, ko punch is satisfying to hit and making weaker but more common kinda takes that away. What is do is take away the damage taken build up and slightly reduce the damage dealt thresh hold. It would make it more of a press the advatange type move.
Cool to finally hear your voice
Hell yeah.
If Neutral B gives the fist fire to signal, maybe make it like Kazuya's
Rage, where before you use the move he gets 1.1x damage.
Also maybe with it being a charged move, you can use it as horizontal recovery, which gives your opponent counterplay if they don't want to get hit by it.
I guess the 1.1x damage could be a neat thing to add, but I don't think it's necessary. I don't really think it's something that Mac needs.
Also, the recovery thing was something I was getting at in the video, I talked a bit about it.
I think the stars could be implemented by gaining through perfect dodging or perry, stocking up to 3 stars, you use it by upgrading specials and smashes (dealing more damage for setups/more knock back for kills/less tech for combos/ more travel distance for confirms or recovery) which takes 1 star but would have huge end lag if it misses. This would encourage players to weave attacks more trying to find an opening then attacking with a devastating counter attack (not that it's a counter, but the way you use it is a counter) but if you ever get knocked backed hard/ hit enough you loose 1 star, it may be strong but you need to have skill to even gain the upgraded smash and specials, even then you need to hit them with it or else your fucked.
I quite like this approach to stars, but I think there should also be some sort of nerf put in place if this were the direction taken. For example, we remove the super armor entirely, and it gets added back in with stars. That way, there's something to work towards that we're already familar with and we don't just further buff moves that are already pretty good.
@@N3Knowledge thanks, my approach with this was you already have decent tools but it ain't enough to do the job all the time, so the stars would be there to encourage you to be really up close and personal baiting attacks to build up stars for a deadly combo, or hit and run tactics to play it safe,
This also would synergizes well with KO meter where you are also encourage to not get hit and keep that lead, Stars help to quicken the pace to leads And make that KO punch deadlier and also have something after the KO punch gets out damaged by other attacks
It also fits his personality, you need to be focused and light on your feet to use this effectively.
My only concern is whether this too OP but considering it takes really high dexterity and concentration to even use it I think it's fine
TLDR; I like the Idea of you have good base attacks and Great Star attacks. It synergizes well with KO, and fits his character well, I don't mind it being OP cause it deserves to be for the requirements to even use it
@@xidjav1836 It would be wise to be cautious about how OP your state would be once you have stars, seen as other characters that depend on recource management would be insanely broken if tuned incorrectly, like Steve.
This would definitely take a good amount of testing to get down right, but I would welcome such a change.
@@N3Knowledge thanks a lot for your opinion, tbh this seems to be wierd for testing since it is meant to have a high skill floor to even use this consistently therefore it needs to be really good, but you also need to limit the utility and strength and adjust the downsides to make it fair in competitive play,
All in all this might be hell to balance and I'd expect a shit ton of balance patches after it's implemented like every balance patch will at least mention the star meter
@@xidjav1836 I doubt that it would take several balance patches to balance. If anything, they’re gonna make it more underwhelming than anything in order to keep it balanced and not have to bother with small adjustments. We’ve seen how continuous changes didn’t change how broken something was, such as with Bayonetta in Smash 4.
I have a really cool idea that would make Mac way more Punch-Out
All your ideas are good and could be implemented, specially the enhanced counter, swapping some numbers around this could work too
How about this new mechanic, when in a match against Little Mac, opponents flash red during their recovery animations, or their ending lag. Mac keeps his regular Counter, but when he uses Down-B near a flashing opponent he gets a Counterattack, which stuns the opponent, like Mewtwo's Disable. Unlike Disable however, Mac can't follow up with anything, instead he enters a stance which allows him to press A and B in a certain rhythm to clobber the opponent and deal damage. When the combo ends or they mash out they take a moderate ammount of knockback.
This would be a good way for him to punish opponent's mistakes and rack up a ton of damage, just like in Punch-Out
Okay, that's actually a pretty sick idea. Literal Punch-Out gameplay would be fun as fuck to see, and I feel like this would be something that he would have if he were an Ultimate newcomer or even a Smash 4 DLC.
This was the best idea I’ve heard
There is one change I'd like to see with Grounded Side B, add some intangibility to Mac's torso on the move. Compared to Smash 4, Mac jumps lower to the ground and it makes it harder to use the move against some projectiles. There are only a few projectiles that travel low enough for him to use it well and some have a tight window where it can be used. Otherwise, the other other buffs sound good
I agree with this. I find myself trying to use side-B over things like Samus's partial charge shot and mewtwo shadow ball, and then getting hit by them when it feels like I shouldn't, so yeah, compensation for the reduced height/distance of of side B would be great.
You know, with the KO punch Idea I have a way to actually implement the "ko at specific set ups" into smash. A split hitbox. One hitbox will be used at the start of the move that is the one proposed however if you attack a foe that is above you such as while in the air or on a platform the power and knockback is reverted to how it is now because typically *that'd be the disadvangage state for characters.* So now you would want to combo KO punch to keep your opponent in air for disadvantage to then punish them with a KO punch. However in return if you hit this part of the KO punch from old smash so now it'd be a punish tool for when you can keep your opponent in disadvantage for a long period of time. But same as in normal smash if you hit this part of the move the KO punch would be reset. This would be to keep players from doing something like up tilt into KO punch constantly.
That's a pretty interesting idea. It would be cool to see implementation of hitboxes that act differently according to the opponent's state to an extreme move such as KO punch. It would be pretty tight to make the hitboxes function as desired, since it could easily be a marth tipper situation where you try to hit the desired hitbox but don't. Either way, pretty cool idea.
In my opinion, Mac is a lot more balanced than you'd think. I think just improving side B to get it back after getting hit in the air, improving ledge snapping on up-B, slightly longer Up-B, is all Mac needs to get to mid tier. The armor isn't faithful, but from a game design perspective makes a lot of sense for a character with a poor aerial game. You need to be able to catch landings, and the armor allows to even punish falling aerial attacks that out spaces you. Its an incredibly important approach tool too, allowing mac to force his way in even when out spaced, again because of the lack of aerials, this is needed. I personally wouldn't change his aerial game, as it's such a good mixup, no one expects the aerial to come out, so no one will tech in time, putting mac his best punish spot.
I completely agree. I know I make it sound as if I don't in the video, but I know how each move is used and what purpose they have (a few of which I admittedly picked up after making the video). His recovery is already pretty decent, you just have to think really carefully when using it, since it's extremely abusable. An overall improvement of his recovery options would significantly help. The more I think about his lack of true combos, the more I think about them as mix-ups. Things like fair into d-tilt or side-B and falling up-air into up-B or KO punch are mix-ups that barely anyone see coming because of how hard they are to reliably land. I'm still not entirely compliant with super armor, but that's mainly because I'm not the kind of player to use super armor to my advantage when dealing with aerial pressure (I prefer shielding, dodging, using up-tilt, but of course they aren't always the best options).
@@N3Knowledge His recovery is bad. It's the worst in the game. No matter how careful you are. All it takes is for you to lose your side B or jump, by being caught in a scenario where the option was forced which happens from as little of a throw offstage, and the odds or coming back have tanked to somewhere in the ballpark of 30%. I was more talking about Mac's tech chase game from his aerials, or reading the option from the tech which puts him in his best state, rather than the raw combo game that comes from it.
As much as I like the KO meter, I genuinely think Star Punches can be incorporated into his move set instead of that uppercut just being his Up-B.I like his Up-B but the stars have more potential than just one move. It won’t be easy, but I’m thinking that Stars could be a fun way to show off your skill in the game.
The way to get stars is by hitting an opponent while they’re telegraphing an attack like you would in Punch Out!! NES/WII. Like if you hit opponents right before they can get a smash or special move out.
You’d get three stars, one star doing 20% damage, two doing 40%, and three stars doing 60%. You need to take 30% damage to lose them all no matter how many were collected. But they’d be simple to regain again so it isn’t a complete detriment to lose them all but it urges the player to be careful.
The punches are uppercuts, basically the KO punch but with three different strengths. Based on the strengths Mac would get different levels of air time, so in some scenarios it’s another recovery option if need be and it won’t put you into free fall.
Also, it’s not a Punch Out thing but I like the idea of his Up-B being stronger based on the amount of Stars you have as well. in that case, one star adds an extra 5%, two does an extra 10%, three doing an extra 15%.
It’s a way to deal with two annoying things about Mac, buffing his recovery and nerfing his KO punch so people don’t crap themselves every time they here the bell ding. Also, that Side-B in the air thing is genuinely something that needs fixed I didn’t even know that was a thing until now but it explains why I lost of past matches now. Also, great video, explained your ideas very well.
It would probably be pretty difficult to balance a 3-Star mechanic, but I definitely see it working.
I feel like 1 star and 2 star would have to be significantly weaker than KO punch, given that it'll probably show up more often, even if having to time attacks the way you suggested can be difficult at times. Having 3 stars have the knockback of KO punch and do 60% would be good I think.
Also, I don't think the stars need to do anything to up-B, especially since we just saw it buffed a bit. It's in a really good spot now (at least in terms of killpower), so it's unnecessary to give it stat boosts with stars.
And as for side-B, it's not really much of a fix, since from my understanding, the move was meant to be a kamikaze kill option in Smash 4 when it put you in free fall, but I guess since it doesn't put you in free fall, they proabably won't do anything more to it since it still kinda has that "suicide" aspect to it with it not resetting after a hit.
Hm, you make a good point about the Up B. I wrote this out way before the Mac buffs came out. I guess the stars could just function like this then, the screen would just show stars while in game but it’d basically be three meters that’d fill up as you deal damage. A three star still acting like the KO we know and love.
One could then be like 15% with like 1/4 the knock back of 3 and two be 30% with 1/2 the knock back of 3. They still hit hard but not enough to obliterate everything in its path. The only thing I’d change about his Up-B now is to just have it work properly more consistently when you land it since sometimes your opponent slips out of it like a wet noodle.
A new move idea for his down air but still giving it the potential to spike, in his reveal trailer he’s shown jump roping fast enough to almost hover in the air. It could just be enough to stall his fall, keeping horizontal momentum from a Side B. The ropes hit box would go around him 4-6 times at a fairly quick speed though fast enough to where it couldn’t be challenged. The rope would have a spike sweet spot in front of Mac , having it consistently spike opponents at let’s say 85% instead having to get them to over 170% like with his current Dair spike. Basically making his down air recovery tech into a more normalized move.
Also had an idea to give Mac a once per stock heal move, specifically pulling from Wii with Doc eating a chocolate bar in between rounds to heal you. The bar would probably only give 20-25% health back, nothing too crazy. Just not sure how it could be incorporated into his move set besides just being a cool taunt that you couldn’t even use online anyway.
Another idea I had involved his jab, it’d be neat if you held down the button he could have a string of attacks like Kazuya but it just hits the opponent 6-8 times total. But you can stop in the middle whenever to lead into other various attacks like his tilts or star punches.
6:27 Yeah, how bout no.
For a purely aesthetic change, I'd rename Mac's current Final Smash from "Giga Mac Rush" to just "Giga Mac". Not only are there _three_ other Final Smashes with the suffix "Rush" (Donkey Kong's Jungle Rush, King Dedede's Dede-Rush, and Min Min's ARMS Rush), but Wario's Final Smash-which was also formerly a transformation-is just called "Wario-Man" and not "Wario-Man Rush", making for an inconsistency.
Honestly that makes a lot of sense, especially conserving how similar Mac’s final smash is compared to DK’s.
@@N3Knowledge
Yeah, but I'd rather not have _four_ Final Smashes with the same suffix or an inconsistency with Wario's Final Smash. Bowser's new Final Smash being called "Giga Bowser Punch" and not just "Giga Bowser" is fine, though, as Giga Bowser serves as a boss in Ultimate.
I agree that he should be buffed an nerfed, but you shouldn't nerf KO punch that much . My opinion is that it KOs light weights at 45 % mediums at
60 % and heavies at 80% , but also make it decreases at the same way it increases. I'd also want him to add more distance on his side B.
P.S. The first time I tried little mac was because he was super buff
Those percentages were kind of where I was getting at. I did say that someone like Mario should die at around the 60% range, so it still works.
Good video
Nearly 1 year later
*Smiles in 🥜*
He do be a blessing to Mac mains everywhere.
@@N3Knowledge Truly a wild and inspiring player playing a truly wild and inspirational character. And I'm just grateful for the information, from everyone who is intrigued, yourself included, thanking you dearly brother.
@@liamfinlay2039 Hell yeah, man. It's always fun learning new things about Mac and seeing others taking him to a new level.
ngl mac should genuinely have a falling down air
in my opinion falling attacks should be used for characters who excel on the ground and need a quick way to get back to it without being vulnerable
I like this video, but I think you're missing the core of little mac's design philosophy. I believe that Mac's aerials should remain hot trash, and his grounded moves should do more damage to compensate, with his tilts dealing low knockback and his smash attacks dealing higher knockback. You said it yourself, you can't jump in Punch-Out!!, so Mac's aerials should reflect this. I think Mac should be much more combo-focused, as the Punch-Out!! games are. All in all, 8/10 video, keep it up!
This is all meant to be hypothetical anyway. This video is meant for those who want Little Mac's overall design to be a little better and a little more Punch-Out lenient, myself included, but I'm perfectly happy with how he is now. I play with him the most for a reason.
@@N3Knowledge Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If we’re viewing things from a redesign perspective instead of a rework perspective, then my original comment ends 4 words in.
@@unny8877 Oh lol. I did push nair and fair more towards the combo side of aerials because that's where they can preform well. Looking back, I might have just made up air more combo focused as well, since it actually has really good combo potential as it is now, it's just that the hitbox is garbage. Honestly, every aerial besides back air could be amazing combo tools with just a few tweaks.
Creaking Skull
I think little mac should be bad. It's very in character
That's a fair point. He ain't some Mike Tyson.
It’s like everything he has good jus sucks cause it was handled poorly :/
You can definitely make him work, you just have to play in specific ways and rely on tricking your opponent a bit to be effective.