55:10 Not yelling, just here to educate people: yes, you CAN target your 1/1army with a bowmasters trigger. It will be a 2/2 with 1 damage assigned to it. The explanation is state based actions aren't checked during a trigger that is being resolved, only before and after, so the army would be a 1/1 with a damage assigned to it and then get the counter before state based actions are checked.
23:30 - You live dangerously, Seth. If they had another Bow Master in hand they could've sniped you during their upkeep. That was more mill than you needed.
I think fewer Arena zoomers would hate mill so much if Tutelage wasn't absolutely heinous in the app Takes forever to aim its triggers and longer to resolve them, you can FEEL the salt building lmao
Yeah, as an ex-judge I yelled a little at that moment, because APNAP will always be imprinted in my brain. Sure, not everyone should know all the rules, but playing for so many years and blutantly ignoring one of four golden rules is... Well, anyway, it's one of the things we love Seth for =)
55:10 Creatures dying due to marked damage is a state based action. (Or dying from having 0 toughness or hit with deathtouch.) Which are not checked in the middle of resolving an ability. Only when priority gets passed around. The army will for a moment have 1 damage and 1 toughness but by the time you check state based action it will already have a toughness of 2. This timing is also important for creatures with toughness based on cards in hand while wheeling or based on (creature) cards in graveyard while resolving Living End. This also means when you hit a Sheoldred with (Expansion/)Explosion she will live just long enough to watch you draw all those cards and hurt you. Decree of Pain is fine though. Since the instruction for destroying something is to put it into the graveyard from the battlefield, she will have already left the battlefield by the time you draw. Shatter the Sky is not fine with Sheoldred because of the order of the instructions on the card.
Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure you can ping the bowmaster token, and it won't die because the ability resolves fully and amazes before state based actions take effect to kill the token
That explanation of how to build a blood moon mana base was perfect! I've been wondering how to make a blood moon deck after trying and falling a couple times
@@nephdrummond3168 In the upkeep step the opponent would gain priority after untapping but before drawing on an empty library, so they would have a chance to flash in a bowmaster before losing the game. Seth was also afraid of this happening with a Lightning Helix instead of a bowmaster around 48:53.
At 55:10, you should be able to hit the orc army. Dying from having 0 toughness is a state based action, so it won't be checked until after the trigger has been resolved entirely. Orc army is set to 0-> orc army +1/+1-> orc army lives.
To combat Leyline of Sanctity, maybe play a 3-3 split of the tutelage effects? While Tefari's gives you the ETB loot effect, Psychic Corrosion does not target ("each opponent" instead of "target opponent").
Poor jub77 you know he had to be a little angry at himself evoking a grief after either forgetting the protection or thinking turning it into an Elk turned that off.
The best part of these videos is when Seth plays some rogue version of a deck. "Wait are we beating Show and Tell? Is this deck good?" Meanwhile opponent is playing some janky sneak attack deck that just happens to also play show and tell.
54:57 Plays into chalice, gets distracted by 1 damage amass + 1damage amass, makes plan to play march into chalice on 1, keeps a bunch of 1 mana spells to end the turn MTG Goldfish indeed
i had a crab mill deck running teferi's tutelage, fraying sanity and the one ring, along with glimpse the unthinkable. Reliably mills the opponent by turns 5-8 if I remember correctly. Glad to see tutelage get some play on this channel
Kinda funny to see Seth go all-in on One Ring and Sheoldred, since he frequently dunks on how busted they are, and tends to avoid playing them since he wants to win on jank and merit rather than busted cards. 4 Necrodominance, 4 One Ring, 3 Sheoldred. Boy, I hope we win!
The Sphinxs Tutelage turbo fog deck from.. ~2015 was the first modern deck I built. I hadn't been playing MtG for very long at the time I saw that video, but it was instantly my favourite. Lol
Hey Seth! Against the Blood Moon deck you can actually target the orc army at 1/1. I've tried it before on Arena and it seems like the two abilities need to resolve before the death trigger would take effect. It would be a 2/1 after damage and would reset to 2/2 on end of turn.
Having recently swapped from corrosion to tutleage for the loot effect - I ran into some interesting differences, tefer's tutelage targets - so one ring and protection effects guard against it - corrosion doesn't target. Also corrosion is a bit better for multiplayer - just thought i'd point these out, because at first i thought Tef Tut was strictly better - but it's not the case.
Seth, if you let him stifle your fetch land then he’s not using the stifle on his lotus field, so it’s like instead of him getting a one mana stone rain it’s like you’re getting a negative one mana double stone rain.
How do you feel about Fraying Sanity over Psychic Corrosion? You don't get the triggers off Necro, but it seems functionally the same and makes Tutelage stronger without needing to full send with Necro.
Hi! I got a cheap electric eraser not long ago that works well, it came with two sizes of eraser refill, one of which is the same diameter as the Tombow Mono Zero. It works incredibly, combining the best elements of both. I may try the small refill in an 18v dremel to see if i can get slightly cleaner results.
seth! would you ever consider thought distortion against control in a dark ritual deck, 6 mana is steep in timeless but its such a house against control decks, love the content as always ❤
27:22 should’ve just played the Ring here. Buy yourself a turn and some card-draw. If he could’ve countered the Ring, he would’ve also been able to counter March.
Hey Seth, probably better known as SaffronOlive! vs Sneak and Show in the post-sideboard game, opponent put Sneak Attack into play with Show and Tell. Why didn't you put Teferi's Tutelage into play instead of a land?
I forgot to make this comment on ur phyrexian obliterator deck but I thought it would work well with either the many green my monster fights ur monster spells or with the pariah card that if I remember correctly says all damage to u is directed at enchanted creature
27:30 why waiting for your opponant turn if you are always going to kill the bow boii just kill him dont take the chance they have counter spell it also save you one health? Sometime you dont have to play instant at instant speed. Also why the black Flare it look real bad in your deck the only sac foder you have is bow boii woulud not drow in the loch be better since you are milling? anyway love the vid sorry for the backsit gaming
I think this combo could be made even better with Ashiok, Wicked Manipulator He allows you to not lose life and just exile cards so you could pay more than your life total for Necro and mill out the opponent before you mill yourself
I would switch to more Corrosion and less Tutelage. Yes, you lose the loot on ETB, but it doesn't target and this gets around Leyline of Sanctity and Metropolis Reformer effects.
great video, really like the deck. just got to the leyline of sancteti part. and have some thoughts. the deck as is, have 2 to 3 ish ways out of a leyline, sheoldred, Psychic Corrosion, and combat damage. sheoldred and Psychic Corrosion, both don target, but instead say "they lose 2 life" or "each opponent" both of which again, isnt targeting. of course combat damage can also work. one addition to the deck that also could help in such situations, would be feed the swarm, as its the only black spell that can directly remove enchantments. otherwise, great video, do really like the deck, looks like fun, even though its playing 3 diffrent kinds of busted cards.
It’s seen a little play in narset wheel decks, but ultimately if you are using a wheel combo like that just being a counterspell deck is better when trying to win as much as possible.
I think Leyline of the Void stops it, since the deck only mills two cards at a time the most they would get back is two cards, then you just gotta wait for the opponent to draw them
@@salvatoredantonio2413 Leyline is a static replacement that should prevent any card from ever hitting the opponent's graveyard. Gaea's Blessing's tuck-n-shuffle is a trigger when it is put into the graveyard. I think Blightsteel Colossus is the tuck-n-shuffle that gets around this since its ability is also a replacement effect and would be more recently time stamped.
would this combo work with ashiok, wicket manipulator? then instead of paying life for the necro, you can just exile cards from your library to mill two cards from the opponents.
It would definitely be a guaranteed kill, but the problem is Ashiok does basically nothing outside of the full combo. And as we can see, such a combo is hardly necessary for the deck to work. In other words: adding Ashiok is peak win-more.
Needle stops activated abilities, bowmaster is a triggered ability. Activated Abilities are ones that you have to pay a cost for, where triggered abilities generally say "when X" or "at X" as they trigger when a certain thing happens.
Bowmaster is actually a triggered ability, pithing needle only turns off activated abilities (you can tell an activated ability because it always has an activation cost followed by a colon)
The more powerful a format gets the more it becomes around key card synergies in your deck and recognizing which your opponents are using and stopping them, it’s a type of magic you have to appreciate to enjoy, sheoldred is only as good as it is because of one ring, brainstorm, and faithless looting existing in so many decks in the format.
Turn 2 is best possible win with perfect cards 4 dark rituals 1 blue black land 1 shelderd turn 1 3 dark rituals then sheldered then necrodomance gain a lot of life turn 2 win.
@@ColossaldreadmawOP it not that was obivious it more that its was obviously the wrong cards to play he had to one ring so the less valuable cards was the ring and if the ring resolve it also protect is hand until next turn. Seth chose wrong and got punish
i was part of the team that built the forst sphinx tutelage deck back in origina it holds a special place in my heart. seth there was a deck variant that never really caught on bc jeskai black aggro was really good but if you had jeskai ascendancy and noyan dar in play when you cast your non creature spells you would loot from ascendancy it triggered tutelage and it would untap your creatures. well noyan dar turned all your lands into creatures each time you cast a non creature spell and that would let you go infinite if you can tripped your way thru your library. the deck was also jeskai black i wosh i still had it sleeved for the exact list but the slots were essentially the izzet tutelage deck with noyan dar, ascendancy, utter end , bunch of cantrip spells and tempo cards.... we just need noyan dar on arena to recreate it 😅
55:10 Not yelling, just here to educate people: yes, you CAN target your 1/1army with a bowmasters trigger. It will be a 2/2 with 1 damage assigned to it. The explanation is state based actions aren't checked during a trigger that is being resolved, only before and after, so the army would be a 1/1 with a damage assigned to it and then get the counter before state based actions are checked.
Good explanation 👍 I was about to do so myself
Nothing makes me happier than seeing a lotus field player salt scoop.
"Oh nooo poor Lotus field control, are you sad that you lost a game? Poor you!"
Including lose apparently @@fredt1983
Wish they banned that shit in pioneer
Pretty sure he got disconnected
but...but...I play lotus field...
34:27 Seth blissfully unaware of how lucky he was to dodge the three endurances in his opponents deck
this is exactly what I thought. Discarding all the gas and keeping all the lands is not a cautious move.
23:42 i like how casting the dark rituals here is basically the same as if you had just exiled them to the march
23:30 - You live dangerously, Seth. If they had another Bow Master in hand they could've sniped you during their upkeep. That was more mill than you needed.
That's a good call out
Opponent: *plays Blood Moon*
Seth: You dare use my own spells against me?
Opponent #2 was truly a class act, letting Seth go off when its clear it's over
Turbo tutage is back? And even more Turbo!???!
I built both your Sphinx's tutelage in Standard and your Teferi's tutelage on Arena back in the day.
i have fond memories of Sphinx's tutelage in a GU turbofog deck back in the day in standard
I think fewer Arena zoomers would hate mill so much if Tutelage wasn't absolutely heinous in the app
Takes forever to aim its triggers and longer to resolve them, you can FEEL the salt building lmao
1:09:00 Seth, active player, nonactive player. Your triggers go on the stack first, opponent's resolve first.
Yeah, as an ex-judge I yelled a little at that moment, because APNAP will always be imprinted in my brain. Sure, not everyone should know all the rules, but playing for so many years and blutantly ignoring one of four golden rules is... Well, anyway, it's one of the things we love Seth for =)
55:10 Creatures dying due to marked damage is a state based action. (Or dying from having 0 toughness or hit with deathtouch.) Which are not checked in the middle of resolving an ability. Only when priority gets passed around. The army will for a moment have 1 damage and 1 toughness but by the time you check state based action it will already have a toughness of 2. This timing is also important for creatures with toughness based on cards in hand while wheeling or based on (creature) cards in graveyard while resolving Living End. This also means when you hit a Sheoldred with (Expansion/)Explosion she will live just long enough to watch you draw all those cards and hurt you. Decree of Pain is fine though. Since the instruction for destroying something is to put it into the graveyard from the battlefield, she will have already left the battlefield by the time you draw. Shatter the Sky is not fine with Sheoldred because of the order of the instructions on the card.
The Teferi control player would salt out.
Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure you can ping the bowmaster token, and it won't die because the ability resolves fully and amazes before state based actions take effect to kill the token
Correct.
That explanation of how to build a blood moon mana base was perfect! I've been wondering how to make a blood moon deck after trying and falling a couple times
Maybe not go down to 1 at 23:50 just in case they up keep flash in Bowmasters
Maybe I’m missing something here, but they were fully tapped out so it should have been free and clear to do so right?
@@nephdrummond3168 In the upkeep step the opponent would gain priority after untapping but before drawing on an empty library, so they would have a chance to flash in a bowmaster before losing the game. Seth was also afraid of this happening with a Lightning Helix instead of a bowmaster around 48:53.
At 55:10, you should be able to hit the orc army. Dying from having 0 toughness is a state based action, so it won't be checked until after the trigger has been resolved entirely.
Orc army is set to 0-> orc army +1/+1-> orc army lives.
To combat Leyline of Sanctity, maybe play a 3-3 split of the tutelage effects? While Tefari's gives you the ETB loot effect, Psychic Corrosion does not target ("each opponent" instead of "target opponent").
Now I want to build Zur the Enchanter with this combo.
This seems like a good home for the new Tamiyo. If you draw half your deck you win.
Alright alright I get it Seth, you've convinced me to build a blue black mill deck.
You say that like blue black Mill isn’t a popular meta deck in both timeless and historic lol. Check those lists out for a good starting point.
@@HomeCookinMTG I figured it was. I'm tied though. Not sure if I do blue black or just straight blue with bruvac as commander
I imagine Crim is saying the same thing.
"Turn a weakness into a strength!"
. . . . . . . . -Darkwing Duck
Poor jub77 you know he had to be a little angry at himself evoking a grief after either forgetting the protection or thinking turning it into an Elk turned that off.
The best part of these videos is when Seth plays some rogue version of a deck. "Wait are we beating Show and Tell? Is this deck good?"
Meanwhile opponent is playing some janky sneak attack deck that just happens to also play show and tell.
54:57 Plays into chalice, gets distracted by 1 damage amass + 1damage amass, makes plan to play march into chalice on 1, keeps a bunch of 1 mana spells to end the turn
MTG Goldfish indeed
March is fine into chalice because on the stack it has a mv of 1+x so cost never 1
This feels like the type of deck that the second anyone else tries, they immediately go 0-5 despite playing it 50% more optimally.
Bowmasters, sheoldred, and the one ring. Those cards are so cracked it's crazy
15:34 nice of you to find opp's memory deluges for them
i had a crab mill deck running teferi's tutelage, fraying sanity and the one ring, along with glimpse the unthinkable. Reliably mills the opponent by turns 5-8 if I remember correctly. Glad to see tutelage get some play on this channel
Sphinx tutelage, curse of the bloody tome and Talrand with cheap cantrips was my go to deck when I first started playing
42:02 Was there a reason to not put in Teferi's Tutelage instead of the land?
Kinda funny to see Seth go all-in on One Ring and Sheoldred, since he frequently dunks on how busted they are, and tends to avoid playing them since he wants to win on jank and merit rather than busted cards. 4 Necrodominance, 4 One Ring, 3 Sheoldred. Boy, I hope we win!
Built something similar and I used beseech for tutelage numbers 5-8 since it gets both sides of the combo and also gets Shelly and TOR
I remember that have always loved your videos helped keep me in magic when I don't have the community around me
57:00 reminder that your blood moon deck needs mountains now or the new flood moon merfolk will lock you out.
The Sphinxs Tutelage turbo fog deck from.. ~2015 was the first modern deck I built. I hadn't been playing MtG for very long at the time I saw that video, but it was instantly my favourite. Lol
This reminds me of the turbo fog deck from a while ago
Hey Seth! Against the Blood Moon deck you can actually target the orc army at 1/1. I've tried it before on Arena and it seems like the two abilities need to resolve before the death trigger would take effect. It would be a 2/1 after damage and would reset to 2/2 on end of turn.
38:50 The amount of lands drawn so far this game is insane.
Now THIS is podracing
Sphinx’s Tutelage, my love.
Having recently swapped from corrosion to tutleage for the loot effect - I ran into some interesting differences, tefer's tutelage targets - so one ring and protection effects guard against it - corrosion doesn't target. Also corrosion is a bit better for multiplayer - just thought i'd point these out, because at first i thought Tef Tut was strictly better - but it's not the case.
Tutelage is such a fun card! I have it in my Nekuzar EDH deck. I combo it with Teferi’s Puzzle Box and Ageless Insight 😂
Could this deck use inquisition of kozilek instead of thoughtsieze? Idk I feel like the two life matters here
I'd rather lose two life to Thoughtseize than the game to Sheoldred, the Apocalypse.
Seth, if you let him stifle your fetch land then he’s not using the stifle on his lotus field, so it’s like instead of him getting a one mana stone rain it’s like you’re getting a negative one mana double stone rain.
54:59 lol
How do you feel about Fraying Sanity over Psychic Corrosion? You don't get the triggers off Necro, but it seems functionally the same and makes Tutelage stronger without needing to full send with Necro.
Hi! I got a cheap electric eraser not long ago that works well, it came with two sizes of eraser refill, one of which is the same diameter as the Tombow Mono Zero. It works incredibly, combining the best elements of both. I may try the small refill in an 18v dremel to see if i can get slightly cleaner results.
9:15 one ring first you have two and if it resolve it protect your hand anyway
Good Morning ☀️
Magic
The legend
Would have been really funny if op in the second match game 1 had the 3rd bow masters in hand to kill you on their upkeep
15:00 without condoning nor condemning, I understand
Way back when I played a deck sort of like this in standard with tutelage and Rielle the everwise
seth! would you ever consider thought distortion against control in a dark ritual deck, 6 mana is steep in timeless but its such a house against control decks, love the content as always ❤
Love this deck. Excited to port it over to Modern.
Not convinced by demonic tutor btw, it seems to me like beseech the mirror is so often better
I gotta ask, who does the art for the thumbnails? Theyre always so charming.
Adriano Kitani
27:22 should’ve just played the Ring here. Buy yourself a turn and some card-draw. If he could’ve countered the Ring, he would’ve also been able to counter March.
i want an against the odds with this idea but you can only use looting effects like a red blue loot deck. I image it would be much harder.
Hey Seth, probably better known as SaffronOlive!
vs Sneak and Show in the post-sideboard game, opponent put Sneak Attack into play with Show and Tell. Why didn't you put Teferi's Tutelage into play instead of a land?
There really should be some way for Wizards to punish control players who salty rope.
I forgot to make this comment on ur phyrexian obliterator deck but I thought it would work well with either the many green my monster fights ur monster spells or with the pariah card that if I remember correctly says all damage to u is directed at enchanted creature
Games start @ 4:35
27:30 why waiting for your opponant turn if you are always going to kill the bow boii just kill him dont take the chance they have counter spell it also save you one health? Sometime you dont have to play instant at instant speed.
Also why the black Flare it look real bad in your deck the only sac foder you have is bow boii woulud not drow in the loch be better since you are milling?
anyway love the vid sorry for the backsit gaming
The early scoop is an act of self-love and you need never apologize for it ❤
I think this combo could be made even better with Ashiok, Wicked Manipulator
He allows you to not lose life and just exile cards so you could pay more than your life total for Necro and mill out the opponent before you mill yourself
All spicy brews this week. Luv it
I would switch to more Corrosion and less Tutelage. Yes, you lose the loot on ETB, but it doesn't target and this gets around Leyline of Sanctity and Metropolis Reformer effects.
Veil of Summer also could have really hosed Tutelage in game 2.
great video, really like the deck. just got to the leyline of sancteti part. and have some thoughts. the deck as is, have 2 to 3 ish ways out of a leyline, sheoldred, Psychic Corrosion, and combat damage. sheoldred and Psychic Corrosion, both don target, but instead say "they lose 2 life" or "each opponent" both of which again, isnt targeting. of course combat damage can also work. one addition to the deck that also could help in such situations, would be feed the swarm, as its the only black spell that can directly remove enchantments.
otherwise, great video, do really like the deck, looks like fun, even though its playing 3 diffrent kinds of busted cards.
Huh. I wonder how well Teferi's Tutelage works with a bunch of wheel effects.
It’s seen a little play in narset wheel decks, but ultimately if you are using a wheel combo like that just being a counterspell deck is better when trying to win as much as possible.
Nothing in the board to fight Gaea's Blessing-type effects? I know they can be somewhat rare, but it's also an auto-lose a lot of times
I think Leyline of the Void stops it, since the deck only mills two cards at a time the most they would get back is two cards, then you just gotta wait for the opponent to draw them
@@salvatoredantonio2413 Leyline is a static replacement that should prevent any card from ever hitting the opponent's graveyard. Gaea's Blessing's tuck-n-shuffle is a trigger when it is put into the graveyard. I think Blightsteel Colossus is the tuck-n-shuffle that gets around this since its ability is also a replacement effect and would be more recently time stamped.
@@kylegonewild leyline should still work for the most part though right?
would this combo work with ashiok, wicket manipulator? then instead of paying life for the necro, you can just exile cards from your library to mill two cards from the opponents.
It would definitely be a guaranteed kill, but the problem is Ashiok does basically nothing outside of the full combo. And as we can see, such a combo is hardly necessary for the deck to work. In other words: adding Ashiok is peak win-more.
The round he hit every land in his deck with card draw
Sorry im a bit new to magic, but wouldnt pithing needle work naming bowmasters to not deal with the pings?
Needle stops activated abilities, bowmaster is a triggered ability. Activated Abilities are ones that you have to pay a cost for, where triggered abilities generally say "when X" or "at X" as they trigger when a certain thing happens.
Bowmaster is actually a triggered ability, pithing needle only turns off activated abilities (you can tell an activated ability because it always has an activation cost followed by a colon)
Maybe add locust god to the deck to make a swarm of flying goblins? And/or add cards that allow you yo have no max hand size to the deck as well
What kind of queues are you playing in to run into that prison pile that bloodmooned themself
9:34 Tron+
You mean… Megatron?
No better comment from Seth than “wait is this deck actually good?”
Could you play this in modern?
Dont forget Sheoldred plus Necro and Tutelage makes your opponent lose 4 life every time you activate the Necro. You should win prior to the mill out.
It’s honestly so boring watching this format when every game against black revolves around sheoldred and bow masters.
The more powerful a format gets the more it becomes around key card synergies in your deck and recognizing which your opponents are using and stopping them, it’s a type of magic you have to appreciate to enjoy, sheoldred is only as good as it is because of one ring, brainstorm, and faithless looting existing in so many decks in the format.
Turn 2 is best possible win with perfect cards 4 dark rituals 1 blue black land 1 shelderd turn 1 3 dark rituals then sheldered then necrodomance gain a lot of life turn 2 win.
I would love to see a modern version lol, fight the bird
This deck makes me happy
With all that mill, I think Pithing Needle is better than it looks in your sideboard.
I'm surprised no Archive Trap in sideboard.
"You cant Stifle losing the game" bruh lmao
The lotus field match id of played the one ring first since you have 2 of them
We need sphynx's tutelage. I miss that card
Seems brave to play best of 3 in timeless/historic. I run an uncastable gaea's blessing in some of my best of ONE decks!
9:14 i mean, that was obvious, wasn't it? 🤣
How
@@ColossaldreadmawOP it not that was obivious it more that its was obviously the wrong cards to play he had to one ring so the less valuable cards was the ring and if the ring resolve it also protect is hand until next turn. Seth chose wrong and got punish
i would have scooped in game two against control too, i value my own sanity more than the win.
How many times have I heard Seth say "Wait, is this deck actually good?"
i was part of the team that built the forst sphinx tutelage deck back in origina it holds a special place in my heart. seth there was a deck variant that never really caught on bc jeskai black aggro was really good but if you had jeskai ascendancy and noyan dar in play when you cast your non creature spells you would loot from ascendancy it triggered tutelage and it would untap your creatures. well noyan dar turned all your lands into creatures each time you cast a non creature spell and that would let you go infinite if you can tripped your way thru your library. the deck was also jeskai black i wosh i still had it sleeved for the exact list but the slots were essentially the izzet tutelage deck with noyan dar, ascendancy, utter end , bunch of cantrip spells and tempo cards.... we just need noyan dar on arena to recreate it 😅
I don't think you're legally allowed to salt rope if you're playing lotus field.
Yay back to arena heck yeah!
Jace "if i draw a card with an empty library, i win instead of losing"
Portral of thran
"Pay 4, flash in a historic card"
Seth calling sneak and show a spicy deck lol
What is a scoop?
Scoop is another way of saying surrender, to scoop up ones cards in response to whatever your opponent does.
dark ritual is a great card but personally i'd side it out more
Can't help but point out that Seth's last video stated only casuals play mill decks ....