The Trojan War - History vs. Myth - Extra History - Part 1
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- 📜 The Trojan War: History vs. Myth - On Extra Mythology we've been covering the myth of the Trojan War recorded in the Iliad, but that's all it is right? There's no way a massive war like that was actually fought. Well... yes and no. The Trojan War might not have unfolded the way Homer's muses sing with the Trojan Horse, Achilles, Agamemnon or Hector, BUT there was a real, historical Troy! How exactly did we find it? That's a story in and of itself and it all begins with a man named Schliemann.
Thanks to Creative Assembly and Total War for sponsoring this series! You can get Total War Saga: Troy for free on August 13th by following this link: bit.ly/EHTroy
It was cosmic coincidence that this video is airing right after our series on the Iliad, so the beginning material might be a bit familiar. So we'll cut up the video into:
00:00 The Trojan War Myth
04:27 Uncovering Historical Troy
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My ancient history professor in college was trained as an archaeologist, and he *hated* Schliemann. Mentioning Schliemann was a great way to elicit a 10-minute diatribe about the damage and outright looting done by early archaeologists.
Tuts tomb intensifies.
@@dr.vikyll7466 Brush, no. Dynamite, Hell yes!
That dynamite story reminded me of early paleontologists and the stories of how they’d destroy bones and bone fields to keep them out of rival paleontologists’ hands.
I really enjoy passionate teachers and their indignant rage at the stupidity of the past.
I had a prof who would go apoplectic if Schliemann was mentioned and one guy jokingly mentioned how much faster explosives would make excavation and was booted from the classroom.
"Please don't destroy this historical site."
"Dynamite just do that."
"We found Troy! It's here... and there, and there, and there. I think that's the royal jewels in the tree."
I love Odysseus landing on his shield. Starting his career off as a clever sh*t.
Ye
Hes such an asshole, lol i love him.
Oh, he had a whole reputation as a sneaky smart-ass even before the Trojan war began.
That's why he was Athena's favorite.
I've always been told that he deviated the curse by jumping on his shield... but they never mention that was because the second man would die XD
I thought it was something like he landed on his shield, so he did not disembark on the beach ^^'
I literally recoiled in horror when the word "Dynamite" was used... that whole part was painful
I covered my mouth with both hands and stared at the screen.
Same, even tho I have heard this story before
Five minutes later and my heart is just slowing down. 😱
Me being really into archaeology that part hurt my soul.
When it was mentioned the site had multiple levels, I thought to myself: This guy isn't gonna blast through that top layer right?
And he did it. I can't believe it.
I’m feeling indescribable emotions the moment you said he literally blew up parts of a historical site.
There was also a paleontologist that blew up a dinosaur skeleton just so his rival couldn't get to it first. Archeology and Paleontology were a bit...less refined im the 1800's
@@crzylkfx That and the fact that these were new disciplines. They were like the YT comment sections in 2017, everyone's trying to be the first.
@@crzylkfx Holyshit, that's fucked up. Imagine being so petty that you would deprive the world of a scientific find because of a dick measuring contest. Then again we almost blew up the world several times for the same reason.
The sheer anger that filled me with is ungodly and I want to punch someone.
@@crzylkfx How was he able to blow up the dinosaur skeleton without being there?
I just love how around half the ideas Odysseus comes up with are quite clever ploys, and the other half are just straight up dick moves
Just like Jim's pranks on Dwight!
You just summed up ancient greece in one sentence
It reminds me of how the ancient Greeks idolized him as clever and cunning, while the Romans despised him as a cowardly schemer. (Admittedly the Romans were also biased as the Romans believed they were the descendants of refugees from Troy).
So the conniving likeable type?
The old trickster archetype.
I love how they connected the topics from extra mythology to extra history. Another thing that makes this channel great
I can’t tell what’s better though. Is it the mythology of this fight? Or is it the history behind the real battle?
Matthew Marino you are so right
“Myths are not stories that are untrue. Rather they are tales that don’t fit neatly into the historical record, which serve as the foundation for a culture.”
@@TheKalihiMan you are right for example maybe there was a guy called Gilgamesh but maybe he wasn't part god.
Honestly, I thought it would be Extr Mythology that would be sponsorized XD
Nothing is more perfectly embodied by the phrase, “So anyway, I started blasting.”
It's so accurate it hurts!
Wife - "Why did you buy land in Indiana?"
Schlimman - "It's a surprise, I'll tell you in three months."
Mickey Mouse: It's a surprise tool that will help us later
It's the only reason to buy land in Indiana.
Lyre Paradox hater gonna hate
A few decades later, Husband - I have a business trip in Reno.
Schlimman: The risk I took was calculated, but man, I'm bad at math
😂
"comrade and partner" is a funny way to say boyfriend
hehe
hehe
hehe
hehe
hehe
Achilles: "I was a warrior like you, then I took an arrow to the heel."
Ha.Skyrim reference,huh?
Some things to note about the Iliad:
1) Achilles' invulnerability is never mentioned. The idea that Achilles in invulnerable unless struck at his heel was an invention of the author of the Achilleid (a book written almost 1000 years after the Iliad). Achilles is simply said to be an amazing fighter, so fast, that nobody can touch him.
2) The Trojans stripped Patroclus' body from his armor and Hector promised half of the war's spoils to whoever brings the body of Patroclus to the Trojans. That's why Achilles strips Hector and drags him from his chariot. As a revenge to what Hector wanted to do to Patroclus and the dishonor of taking his armor.
3) Hector is afraid of fighting Achilles. When he leaves the walls of Troy and sees Achilles, he is struck by fear and starts running. Achilles has to chase Hector three times around the walls of Troy before they fight.
4)The death of Achilles is not mentioned in the Iliad. The Iliad ends with the body of Hector returned to the Trojans.
5) Quintus Smyrnaeus is the one who continued Homer's story, writing about Achilles' death and the destruction of Troy. His work (Posthomerica) was written in the 4th century AD, more than 1000 years after Homer's Iliad (around 800 BC). Posthomerica had a very similar style to Homer that people accept it as a continuation.
6) In the Posthomerica Achilles was ambushed and tricked by Polyxena (daughter of Priam, whom Achilles grew to like), Polyxena was later sacrificed by Achilles' son, Neoptolemus.
7)When Neoptolemus enters Troy, he kills Priam, throws Hector's son (Astyanax) from the walls of Troy and takes Hector's wife as his concubine. He then returns to Greece where he becomes the founder of the Molossian kingdom.
8) Pyrrhus (the first Greek to fight the Romans and the man we get the term Pyrrhic Victory from) claimed descent from Achilles, as he was the descendant and king of the Molossian Kingdom of Epirus.
9) When Alexander the Great visits Troy, he makes sacrifices to Achilles, he organizes games and he supposedly finds and takes Achilles' shield for himself. Alexander, also, claimed to be a descendant of Achilles, as his mother was a Molossian Greek princess.
There was a book in the Homeriads that told how the war ended. It's currently lost, like most of thosee books (like the Little Illiad or the Argonautica), which is why we have to resort to the Posthomerica and the Aeneid, written by romans.
City name was Ilion not Troy.Ilion ,ILI-ON means OR -HIM
ILI -JAD means OR -PAIN
ODISSEYA -ODI- SE-JA means I'm living
Troy - number 3 or three 😁
@@vesnanuspahic7510 balkan slav say something of worth challenge (Impossible)
And if historians say "The power of friendship" is the true reason for Achilles' rage instead of the very real romance with Patroclus; then I'm going to treat them like hector with the chariot.
@@mxe2693 we are not slav’s 60% at list 😁
Trojan Malware inspiration
"Hey guys! I found a historical site so old it slipped into mythology. A whole city with intact buildings and delicate pottery. What do I do?"
Acme: Hold my Slapstick.
Even Wile E. Coyote would facepalm over that.
"how do we extract history faster?"
* pulls out dynamite * "fracking"
As a developing archaeologicist and anthropologist this was an important step towards developing the field and helping establish what we do perform in the field. With that said I cringe everytime I hear of all the history that was lost, all the tales of the past that we can never recover with destruction like this.
"Yes, a great wooden horse!"
"I don't understand, will it fight?"
[Facepalm]
Age of mythology Ajax is best ajax.
"Surrender!"
Ajax fires a ballista and kills the soldier next to him. "We surrender! Move a little closer!"
Freegin love that game
I am so here for AoM references
PROSTAGMA
A mecha trojan horse? :P
Modern Greeks: Wait, the Achaeans were the Sea Peoples of the Bronze Age collapse
Ramses III: *draws bow* always have been
Shit, this makes to much sense
Their bronze plate armor are super Achean style too.
*When you like the idea of Classical Greece being the result of Achaeans migrating from mainland Europe to the Penninsula and adopting the oral histories of the myceeneans and minoans*
*Realise this means the Achaeans and Philistines were likely in contact at some point*
*Ramses III knocks on door*
"An arrow to the heel." (Any historian who read the mythological version of the battle of Troy)
"I used to be an adventurer like you, until I took an arrow to the heel."
I'm not sorry.
@@sagemoriyama1372 You should be!
"I used to be an *Near Unkillable Hero* like you, until I took an arrow to the heel."
Based on some versions of the story the description makes it sounds like he was killed by a poisoned arrow to the heel.
Poisoned arrows being more common then previously believed
@@MazaAzi yeah that works better
@@jm8361 In that version it's an arrow poisoned/infected and guided by Apollon, who had beef with Achilleus cause he raped Apollon's oracle - as I remember
Video: "Some German guy uses TNT to excavate the site where people think the City of Troy lies"
Me, an enthusiast for History, Archaeology, and Forensics: " HE *W H A T* "
Bros I bet Dovahatty's gonna have a fun time watching this
I mean obviously Aeneas single-handedly killed all the grekoids and then went on to found Rome. Don't believe all the made up stuff they tell you.
AENEAS CHADUS MAXIMUS
Re
I’m actually surprised EC shares viewers with Dovah they strike me as very opposite though I could say that about basically ever other popular history channel
@@byzantineboi8345 dovah is joke history though, it's quite obvious that the bias he expresses in his vids is ironic.
The disgusting look on my face when i herd TNT ....
lmao same
ISIS did the same to Palmyra temples which are even older than Greek ones. Pure ...
@@sriharshacv7760 oh God, don't remind me. Hearing what they did to that city still brings me down.
Dynamite is not acceptable in modern archaeology
So, "Illiad" apparently translates as "The Story of Illium", the Greek name for Troy...
But since we're not calling it Illium, we should really start referring to the book as "Troy Story". :P
(And thank you, internet, for that joke.)
Brazen Bard I learnt that in English lol we reading the odyssey
@@th3radlad_727 Ah, yes, the original story of a man too proud to ask for directions for ten years. ;)
Ilion was the greek name for it.
Ilium is the latinized/roman name version ;)
Who else immediately thought that this video was sponsored by Troy Total War
I’m sure everyone doesn’t really like Troy total war.
@Graham Paget It seems to be a fully functional game at launch, which is a low bar, but the Total War games failed to reach it for most of their releases over the last decade. It has an interesting subject matter, and seems to have finally properly balanced the broken supermen with the rest of the armies. I could buy that the people who claim to like it do. They haven’t gotten something like it in several decades.
True
I was
Yay
Building a horse to attack a city sounds like something the Turkmen president would do
But he is probably too busy falling off his horses and writing fuck poems about it
I got that refernce. Thanks John Oliver
JFK tried but that didn't work out well
Are we sure he isn't riding around a place called the Door to Hell.
If we build this giant badger.....
I learned about Schliemann when I took an intro to anthropology class. The irony is that the archaeologist who produced the greatest evidence for that site being historic Troy, had no interest in proving the myth. He was just there to study the town as an important trading site. Schliemann did eventually realize his mistake when he started excavating in Sparta (due to him being banned from reentering Turkey) and found materials similar to objects he had found in layers he had recklessly blown through.
0:48 Odysseus: I'm gonna do what's called a pro gamer move.
Let's be crystal clear here. Schliemann was NOT an archaeologist. He was a looter. His careless methods and later behavior betray this fact.
I'm so early that I'm still watching the Extra Mythology video about the Iliad
I was wondering why Agamemnon's beard was not white and Patroclus did not have one at all.
Uploaded 10 seconds ago, last time I was this early Kronos was still the primary god.
I am SO psyched about this new series, I absolutely love the bronze age. An age when it seems that human civilization was emerging from what seems like a mythical past. It reminds me of how the time of King Arthur seems like a time when magic and fantasy are fading away, but little remnants remain here and there. Keep up the good work folks, we love your stories!!
I remember watching the lies episode to the Bronze Age collapse and you guys mentioned wanting to do an episode like this,,, it warms my heart that the arc is complete :’)
I really like how the art style from the History series slightly differs from the Mythology series.
Stop watching this there’s a red spy in the base
The Red Spy is in the Base?!
A little help 'ere?
"Let's go, let's go!" - INCOMING!
aaah ahhh Hey Its still here
alright then
"He blew up the sight."
No!
"Troy was in the fifth level so he did more damage to the city than the Greeks."
Heh, Achilles would be proud and NOOOOOOOOOOOO
Really excited for this guys, your content just keeps getting better.
One thing I remember reading was that some of the characters may have actually been real.
Paris was sometimes called "Alexandros"(protector of men), and the Hittites speak of an "Alexandu" fighting a war with the Wilusans(thought to be the kingdom controlling historical Troy). The king of Wilusa, according to the same letters, was Piyama-Radu. Of course this would mean basically the entire plot of the Iliad would be wrong, since if the two men were in fact Paris and Priam respectively, that would mean Paris was fighting Priam for the Wilusan throne. Other than this I don't recall the letters(addressed between Hittite nobility), ever mentioning who was involved in the war, but it's likely some Greeks were involved since Alexandu is obviously the Hittite transliteration of Alexandros, and obviously the Wilusans were involved since it was over the Wilusan throne. But the Hittite description of events is so vague it's really impossible to tell if Alexandu and Piyama-Radu are who some historians think they are, or if it's just a coincidence. Quite fascinating either way.
I love this combo of extra history and extra mythology. Please try and do this again if you can!
As a history nerd, a part of me died when I heard that Schliemann exploded a part of Troy.
He did what???????????????????????????????????
This sounds like an amazing series. Can´t wait for more fantastic videos!
"Blowing the living daylight out of the site with TNT"
The sound you are hearing is the collective horror of every historian.
Im glad you guys are doing adds that actually pertain to your channel
I have never would have thought that Extra Mythogies LIES would be a thing :P but I liked it a lot...thank you
Damn, this is soo good. I never read the Iliad but all the details that are left out of movies...completly change the story of the characters.
I rely loved the detailes to Hector
you're a legend! keep creating amazing content!!
I started watching you guys on the Total War Rome and now were at Total War Tro I am stoked!
3D artist working on Troy excavation here! Great video simply explaining Schliemann's story without bias! Many historians resent Schliemann for not being a scholar archeologist and some others simply for his 'methods', however him doing all this has kickstarted one of the worlds oldest archeological sites (both in terms of findings age and excavation's age) and revealed that the ctiy had 9 layers going back beyond 1000 bc!
Keep up the great work and stay curious!
Since rome 2, total war loved sponsoring your channel for their new games and it’s always fun to learn
Can I just say how much I love the ending music :D
Perfect sponsor series after you guys just finishing the mythology series of this war.
Love how different the art styles are between series, all the while retaining the same general look.
5:20 "Most importantly, he was rich" You can stop the sentence there.
I've been watching for quite a while now and I don't usually comment but I love the show. Keep it up
Can you imagine if instead of those meh 1 minute videos of some of the main characters of Troy, CA had paid extra credits to do a summary of the story like the first 4 and a half minutes of this video and made footage to go with it. I think that would have been awesome.
With that being said, I love extra history and am very much looking forward to the rest of this series :)
Omg, I love the horses in your animations.
nice to finally hear how Troy was found can't wait for that second part
Hello Anthro/Archaeology student here. I love that you guys are doing a video on Schliemann, or as my professor likes to refer to him "He-who-must-not-be-named". That man was a glorified looter & not only wrecked the ruins of Hisarlik, but also the Mycenean citadel, the Frankish tower of the Acropolis, and so much more.
My favorite story by far though is how he dressed his wife up in the gold they recovered from Hisarlik, and she oftentimes went out wearing them just to rub it in people's faces, because, of course they'd do that with priceless jewelry. It's Schliemann.
Everyone: You struggled to find this ancient lost city, why you want to blow it up now?
Schliemann: My goals are beyond your understanding.
"Of course, I don't destroy Troy my self. That would be hilarious. I'm letting dynamite to do that job"
This Schlimman dude sounds actually insane. I cannot imagine spending so much of my life trying to find this lost city, and then after finally finding some evidence decide digging is too slow and that it's time to use dynamite.
Troy was only the FIRST lost city he found. He next crossed over to Greece and excavated Mycenae (or not).
2:00 Just a note - it's explicitly stated in the text of the Iliad that Patroclus is older than Achilles. Great video anyway. Love you guys! :)
Never knew it said!
YES! I've been so excited for this to be cornered!
*Schliemann* : I had to explode two whole cities, but finally, I found Troy!
*Someone* : Actually, Troy was that first city we found and blew up.
*Schliemann* : What?
*Seinfeld theme plays*
There are actually a few theory of the Trojan Horse. One theory is the horse actually a seige engine another theory is it could have been a ship with the warriors hidden inside as Phoenician merchant ships are said to have been decorated by a horse head which are called hippos by the Greeks. It's also noted that ship are once called sea horses in the Odyssey. Another theory is the trojan horse myth is a metaphor for an earthquake have damaged the walls enough for the greeks to enter Troy and the greek god of earthquake and creator of horses is none other than Poseidon. He also controls the sea but I think everyone know it right?(sorry if I misspelled anything English is not my main language)(and if I get anything wrong I'm sorry I'm not an archeologist)
It's cool to get a historical view of this war in Extra History and a mythological view of it in Extra Mythology
Can’t wait for part 2
I can imagine a group of archeologists going "we need to get to Troy at the bottom most layer." and Schliemann comming in with a a few hundred cases of TNT going "I'm about to do, what the people in the archeological business call, a pro gamer move."
WHAT??? Please do more of these mythology history paired series!!
Oh dear, I don't think I've ever been laughing this much during an extra history episode! XD
“I used to be an adventurer like you... until I took an arrow to the heel.”
Man i love this show and voice-acting.
This is such delicate work we should ensure to take all the time possible to ensure it's safe
No dynamite boom boom time
ah, a return to the origins of Extra History - a game sponsoring them.
EC: One of the great leaps forward in archaeology
Mao Zedong: Sounds familiar
Dear Leader your supremacy over the world has made your nation leap more towards greatness then America will ever have
Yay more history!
Darauf habe ich gewartet!
For a more in-depth look at the subject, Michael Wood made a great documentary series back in the 80’s called “In Search of the Trojan War”. I think he occasionally tries a little too hard to liken the Trojan War to the Cold War tensions of his own time, but the series is still a gold mine of information and it’s always enjoyable to watch Michael Wood barely contain his urge to completely geek out.
Wow, I took a course about this exact subject in University. Amazing stuff and fun to read about!
Just in case you not heard it later I love you guys and your channel.
My entire Channel is based on Homer's Iliad. I'm super excited for this.
Keep up your good work I love ur history channel even my whole family were historians Lol
in an alternate universe: hector accidentally stabs achilles in the heel.
also, the second part of this episode is like a tragedy.
You guys should do the pastry war or the great emu war
Well, what a series of events that was. I’m looking forward to the next video on the topic! Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
The horse sticking its tongue out all the time is my favorite part.
Doing this right after the Extra Mythology Illiad one? Genius.
I think your friend has mentioned something similar... and since you can't see me, I'm rolling my eyes...
Great way to recapture on your last series :)
Could you guys make a series about birodino or waterloo(about napoleonic wars) its a great time period of history also a very colorful one.
Or how troy led to rome. I heard some people who survived the war founded it but not much more than that.
@@theresahall1591 Well in the Aenid, Aeneus flees Troy and eventually arrives in Italy and marries into the locals. His descendants are Romulus and Remus the founders of Rome. It's basically Roman fanfiction to justify their conquest of Greece.
You sould do a German war of unification series I know you did Otto von Bismarck but it be cool to learn about the leaders and major battles more
That Troy fall of a city show has to be one of the biggest jokes ever.
I cant wait for the second episode and the troy total war
Dynamite archaeology. I want to cry.
Nice I've just started reading into the Ilias
Hey, in your next video, do you think you could go into the phenomenon connected to phrases like "the wine dark sea", where we've noticed that in ancient descriptions, descriptors for colors like blue and green almost never exist, weirdly as if they didn't have words for them?
The dynamite anecdote is one of those things that genuinely makes me wonder if the average IQ was about 50 points lower a few centuries ago. A toddler could explain to why blowing up a site would result in the site being blown up.
Hey extra credits I have watch your videos for years
I am getting Rome 2 and first Extra History Vibes from that. Man the first episodes were a LOOONG time ago ;(
I’m guessing this is probably gonna be in the next video, but it’s worth noting that there are contemporaneous Hittite and Lucian records that attest to a war between the Achaeans and the allies of Troy, a Trojan king named Piyama-Radu(possibly Priam) and another Trojan king named Aleksandu(Alexandros, aka Paris). In other words, there is a fair bit of evidence which attests something fairly close to the Trojan war
I sing of arms and man.
Ooo you guys should do The Aeneid next! Virgil's epic Illiad fanfic!
Oh and how did you miss putting "Never bury your bones apart from mine Achilles, but let them lie together." In the funeral episode?!