Storing the batteries at around 50% is an easy fix. But some drone batteries have auto-discharge that will take the charge level to around 50% automatically after about 10 days or so. Are there any ebike batteries that has this function?
Couple of points. 1. Shimano cycles are based on a full charge / discharge. You can use etubes and diagnostic to report cycle count 2. Shimano charger will charge fully, then go into a trickle mode then turn off without the need to set a timer or unplug. That's what the BMS is for. 3. You can run a Shimano battery flat (flat to the point of a auto power shutdown that is) the BMS will prevent you taking the cells below a safe margin. I.e even tho the bike won't provide power to the motor the battery still has a safe level of charge. If you run Di2 this is also evident as the battery too low to power the bike, still powers the di2 to allow shifting. At some point that too will be prevented but the battery is still not "flat" and a margin of charge safety still exists.
Thank you for the video, could you guys do a video of emtb with internal gear hubs? I have seen some off roads bikes on Google images used internal gears instead of classic cassette but I wanted to know more the down points and advantages
most batteries are made from a black plastic case, which is good for plastic durability outdoors but not so great for heat absorbtion. black batteries and also dark frames of down tube integrated designs will heat up the cells when exposed to sunlight. battery capacity degradation is primarily a function of cycle times and heat exposure. you can spray the battery case with chrome spray make it reflect sunlight and avoid heat absorbtion.
You should emphasize proper storage voltage since that has a dramatic effect on cycle life. Also even if you aren't using the bike for just a couple days you should be making sure it's at storage voltage, it does not take long for a battery sitting at 100% to degrade the battery. Basically if your not riding the bike make sure it's at 40-60% charge, then only charge before you plan to use the bike.
But this really stinks. How would I know if I am going to ride the bike for a while? How do I discharge them if I am not riding it? I have small ebikes here for for my grandchildren to ride. I don't know when they are coming. So they are sitting out there right now at 100% charge. Do I need to go out there and ride each kids bike for 10 miles to get it to 40%? And then it seems, I should charge them when they are coming over to what, 80% and therefore have decreased range? This all isn't making much sense or certainly unfortunately not very practical.
Problem with that is I would then never get to ride. I ride almost daily, and charge over night for the next day. If I leave it at 40-60, then it is 2 hours to get up to full. I want the bike ready to ride 60-80-100km at a moments notice. We need more R&D so batteries in the future are that much better.
@@ronbonnell1775 I agree 100%. I want my bike ready for a maximum ride at a moments notice. I only leave it undercharged when i know it is going to be awhile before a next ride. I ride in the winter, but not every day, so I plan my charging cycles to leave them down, and then top up a few hours before I want to go. If I was out of action for weeks/months then i can see storing at 40%.
I took my new steed, 1st EMTB out for it's 'shakedown' the other day and have to say, these things are fookin brilliant! If I'd bought a new 'standard' MTB, I think I'd be disappointed. The motor really adds to that next level feel, it helps with the ups and the extra heft helps with that more capable DH feel. I used to go out and dread the ups but do it to get fit for the downs. You really have to get out at least 2x a week to get and maintain fitness which isn't easy. Now, I can look forward to ups as I can get more downs. I spent more time out on the trails and got more done. In all honesty, they are cheating, it makes it so easy, you piss all over the ups but they are done so quick, you start enjoying riding. You'll get loads more riding done in a shorter time.
Yes steep technical rides are now fun, so much less impact if you should fall while climbing vs flying down hill. Get your kicks going up as well as down😆
The problem with not charging to 100% before a ride is that it adds to my range anxiety. However, just driving to a known short distance destination is the only time I don't charge fully. When I'm out 22 miles from home on my 70+LB fat eBike, I want to know for certain I'm getting home. And in case of a mechanical or electrical failure, I have Velosurance which will send a van out to the nearest street and get my ass home. I'm too old to be walking my bike out in the middle of nowhere.
@Character Zoo HQ what about the term mechanical failure has you thinking he can still pedal? On his bike a broken chain is probably the most likely mechanical failure 😅
For longevity of a lithium battery a few things matter, in no particular order. -It's operating temperature when charging and discharging and storing. Charging/discharging a very cold or a very hot battery will degrade it somewhat faster. Usually, advanced systems have a cut off to prevent charging at over 40C. -The cell (the battery pack contains several 18500 battery cells) is most stable at its nominal voltage of around 3.7V, its operating range is 4.2V when fully charged and around 3.2V when fully discharged. Technically charging cycles between 20% to 80% should result in a prolonged battery life. This also means that it's better to top off your battery at say 40% if you are before a ride that will take it to near flat, then allowing a deep cycle. -How quickly it charges and discharges (the sustained current flow), the lower the current the better, theoretically eco is better than turbo for battery health but turbo is so much fun :). Also, I think the "1000 cycles" is referring to the average capacity loss after the "1000" full charge/discharge cycle, but of course, this depends on the conditions.
Is GMBNs claim that recharging a half full battery counts as a full "cycle" just like charging from 10-20% accurate? I've heard conflicting info. One video claimed always keeping it at 20-80% would double lifespan, but does that account for the fact that each cycle is only 60%? If not that's only ~10% slower degradation, if yes then 20-80 method should make a battery last almost 4x more "cycles". Any thoughts on this?
Charging to keep between 80-20% will definitely make a battery last longer. I have a 5 year old Vado with around 30,000km on it and the app is showing 90% battery health. I mostly ride at medium assist and have done approximately 1200 charging cycles. I try and keep the battery between30 and 80%. One thing that would be great would be if manufacturers supplied chargers that could cut off at any desired level. This is common in cars and laptops.@@justinbogart278
I just keep to basics, look after it as much as I can. Keep it around 50-75% when not in use and about every dozen or so charges, uses, I let the battery drain to almost empty and charge to full every so often.
A simple tip is to just never fully charge it, and never fully discharge it. And never leave it plugged in for extened time periods. I keep mine between 40-90% all the time. Been doing that for nearly a year and I have not had any compromise on battery performance as of yet.
There’s a chemical reaction at 100% that deteriorates the battery, this is why storing at 100% is bad. Best to leave battery at 80% and then top off right before the ride unless you ride everyday. 100% is only bad when stored at 100%, not when used right away.
@@jamjar1106 there’s is not the same chemical reaction at empty. It is still recommended to not drain the battery to 0% though, I think because if you accidentally drain below 0% it will damage the battery. I use my battery typically between 80%-10% unless I need my maximum range, then I use 100%-5%, but I have a Bluetooth BMS and I’m capable of looking at, and setting, the exact percentage of charge my battery cuts out on my phone.
@@andrewhillphotosvideos2909 the less time the better. I don’t think there’s a magic number your looking for since it’s probably a linear degradation over time. But if you insist on a number I’d say 3-7 days per month, just guessing
You don't need a review, just get one! Only issue I see, it's the old motor and the battery isn't quite up to date with others but its lighter so may negate all that. You could wait till next year to see if they have an update or pick one up in the outlet, I have the older alu one and it fookin rocks! I'd have a carbon one all day long. I'd also look at the YTs
3:47 lithium Ion is the battery type used for big laptops,ebikes , scooters etc, Li-po batteries are what current consumer handheld devices uses! Faster discharge/recharge rate and also a lot more compact/lighter and generally easier top make into smaller fitting sizes/shapes.
I would have liked to hear some facts to back up his #4 don't immediately recharge after a ride. On my first 2018 Turbo Levo I always waited an hour or 2 after a ride and I always tried to stop recharging at 90% and limit discharge to 40%. After about 60 charge cycles I had only 90% battery health and at 85 charge cycles I had one charge indicator light always showing red and Specialized replaced the battery. On my 2020 T Levo I put it on charge immediately after a ride and leave it plugged in overnight or even a few days. Now at 50 charge cycles and 3500 kms in 10 months I still have 100% battery health. I rarely get home with less than 40% remaining and I recharge anytime it's less than 85%. Another thing I always do is plug in the charger before connecting it to the bike. I noticed that my electric scooter/trotinette makes a big spark if I don't do this, so I figure it makes sense to avoid this discharge surge, but I have no facts to back it up.
Another good tip is to occasionally charge to 100% as then the clever internal electronics will balance the individual cells...this will optimise the range.
I’m confused. My battery are called Panasonic Tesla cells. Is it okay to charge them overnight? Also I’ve accidentlalt disconnected the battery while the battery was still on. Will there be any severe repercussions for that? It’s only happened twice. I’m a bit worried I might need to replace the battery. Hope not
@@gregoriodia by Bosch this is definitely not true. The balancing happens ONLY at the last 20%. By the time the differencies between the cells are growing. My ebike last 20% can be 10 hours sometimes. The Bosch BMS has separate CPU chip and the intelligent BMS IC works as simple sensor/driver.
One question on battery replacement, how long manufacturers are ensuring to produce the battery as spare part? I wonder if after 5 years I will still be able to find a replacement battery for my eMtb. Since those bikes costs a lot of money, there will be a lot of people keeping them for a long time, but if you cannot change the battery (or the motor or the commands) will you be left with a piece of junk?
I'm hoping if there's a decent advance in battery tech I will be able to get a retrofit upgrade. My current Bosch powertube is 625wh, I imagine in a few years a similar size battery would be of higher capacity.
All lithium battery packs can be rebuilt by technicians specializing in this service. Mostly they do power tool batteries but the e bikes use mostly the same individual cells inside the packs. A pack is made up of multiple batteries. The tech' takes out any bad ones and replaces with new ones, test that the pack is balanced and charging and discharging in a safe manner then add a short warantee and your back in action. Cost can be low compared to a whole new battery.
I am a relatively new Ebike owner. I’ve ridden conventional bikes for the past 30 years, but now in my early 70s, I feel the need for some assistance, when riding up hills or against strong headwinds. I live in South Florida, USA, where, during the summer months we get frequent rains, and I will occasionally get caught in a rain storm. How well protected are the batteries in the bike against a rain storm. I understand that when cleaning the bike, you do not apply a very strong spray of water, but in a typical rain storm, how vulnerable are the batteries in the bike to the rain while riding? I’ve had people tell me to wrap the battery compartment using some plastic material if I’m going to possibly get caught in the rain. I find it hard to believe that an E bike costing upwards of 4 or 5K, USD, should need to be wrapped with saran wrap to protect it from the rain ! Would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks very much!
Li-Ion cells have virtually no self discharge, however the bms uses energy as it constantly monitors individual cell voltage. a li-ion battery without bms does pretty much not discharge even after years (at storage voltage).
Jonas, if I were to store a Li-Ion battery for the winter months, at what level of charge do you think it would need to be to prevent discharge below zero?
@@keithcarrier1910 if you want to store it for many months it's best to disconnect the BMS at 50% SOC (e.g. 3.6V per cell). no BMS, no discharge. Some BMS are powered by the plus pole balance wire which can be interrupted withba switch. or the entire balance wire harness can be unplugged from the BMS. A typical BMS (e.g. Daly) will have a current draw of 0.05mA. that isn't much, but possibly other BMSs have a higher standby current draw. for a few months I guess you're fine leaving it at about 80%.
@@MrGuy999guy I cannot recommend doing it on Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc. BMSs as there might be issues with initialisiation. On 3rd party BMS (which are often higher quality...) like JBD or Daly you can disconnect or switch the positive pole balance lead which supplies power to the BMS
You dont, they are talking nonsense. Its better to charge it at ambient temperature but most decent batteries have a very good casing design which is design to radiate heat away from the battery so it will cool very quickly when not in use. These guys are just trying to think of an excuse to make a video tbh.
If you've been riding hard (turbo/Boost/flat out in trail) for the latter part of your ride, the battery will be HOT ! In these instances, leave it an hour to cool down to ambient temperature or you can kill it. Otherwise, you should be fine. Same with anything with high current use like electric chainsaw or electric leaf blower. The batteries are hot and will most likely die if you charge them straight away.
You can charge anything with solar panels as long as you have the proper setup for you panels. Example, your solar panels will charge up batteries during the day (the panels pass through a voltage regulator before going to the batteties) and then you hookup those batteries to an inverter into which you can plug any 120v appliance or gadget you wish.
Yeah, not certain whether this is accurate. Certainly not discharging below 20% extends cycle life significantly. @embn do you have any links to hard data showing charging to 100% is bad for cycle life?
It simply stands as a fact because if you are discharging the battery from 80% to 20% you simply use only 60% of a full cycle. And I am pretty sure that the 100% charge is actually lower in reality, simply as safety from the manufacturer. For me the best option to prolong the life of a battery is to have a second one.....
there is a lot of reaseach to back up the 80% claims TSJ batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries. 80% or lower storage voltage makes a difference . 2 year old battery SOH 97% from storing at or below 80% how is yours looking ?
My new BeeCool eBike battery will not 100% charge in the maximum 12 hour recommended charge time. The last indicator light which represents 25% remains red. Can I check the battery with a volt meter to see if it is fully charged? I’m thinking perhaps it’s a problem with the charge indicator light not the battery?
How do you tell how much charge you put in your depleted battery ?. Bafang M620/Ultra with 52 volt 17ah/ battery and I have no idea how long it would take to get it to 80%, and how could I ever measure that ? Sorry just a question man, any input is good input, thank you in advance
I used to ride an old scooter back in early 2000s of them brick batteries which I recharged when at lowest level. Now today Im using BMS Battery and unlike the old ones this battery is mention to recharge after every use instead of letting drop to lowest to re charge. It makes sense of recharging after every use due to the set of batteries at top is being used up before the lower ones as the lower ones always be on stand by of their turn. Keeps that Optimal power use every time I take out bike. But the real factor is how you use PAS knowing the more you use PAS the more power is conserved. Looking at display when Im on say 3 PAS and using peddles the wattage output reads zero when using this which in return my recharge time is less than it would if I used throttle going same mileage of peddles.I just got back into E Bikes from decades back of my last E scooter which suks on the older batteries and with these new types, Im loving this as very PRACTICAL to finally have the Tech of E Bikes in its prime..
Repacking the cells should be easy enough and a lot cheaper than replacing the whole unit. Hopefully as ebike are getting more popular this service will become readily available.
Can you please explain: Things not to do #4 - putting your battery on charge as soon as you get home from a ride, you need to let your battery go from a state of discharge to a state of charge...How long should one wait before charging their battery after a ride?
I ride my fat tire ebike only in snow so by the time I get back it is quite cold, and batteries don’t do well or charge well when cold. So I think the advice is don’t charge the batteries if either very hot or very cold.
Hi I lost my keys for my shimano steps BM-E6010 battery lock carrier. The shimano steps BT-E6010 battery casing seems to have some type of screws attached all the way around the battery casing, possibly T9 screws or something similar, can anyone give me any advice please. Many thanks.
Can you upgrade your battery I’ve got a Nukeproof megawatt 297 comp an it runs a Shimano E8035, 504Wh and I notice it doesn’t really last the longest so could I put a more powerful Shimano battery in ? Or worth just investing in a spare battery
Ideally, we need probably 2.5x to 3x capacity than it takes for the distance we travel in a day. And the bms and charger need to team up to keep it in the safe zone. Would help tremendously to have an easy to read meter. One battery manufacturer selling on a common marketplace instructs that their batteries must be powered on while charging to charge completely. What's up with that?
So basically you read the bikes manual.... However I did think your comment regarding recycling and reusing, do you know of any company’s that can re-cell ones older battery?
I know this is an older video but it applies so Ill ask, hopefully someone can get back to me? I just too dekivery of an emtb with a shimano steps system with a 504wh gen 2 pack. It arrived absolutely dead, and I dont mean BMS protection mode dead, but zero voltage within it dead, and I estimate it was like that for months as I got it on clearance so it was probably sitting a shipping container for ages? I put it on charge and it wouldnt charhe for close to an hour then it finally started. It went over what any even slightly partially charged pack would accept as my power meter showed a total of 585wh go into this 504wh pack. My question is: what are my options as the company I bought it from wont do anything apart from me returning the entire bike, which Im happy with the bike so thats extreme, and they say Shimano has a 2yr warranty but the packs Ive had in the past that have had this level of neglect usually still make it past 2yrs but not by much and they fall off hard! Do you think itd be worth my time to explain this issue to shimano or am I borked and stuck with this battery thatll inevitably fail hard? Anyway, tjank to anyone who has some insight! Ive been getting alot outve this channel and all its brethren so big thanks!
I have a bosch battery and a standard (4a) charger and a fast charger (6a). Is the standard charger better for the battery health? I can't really hear what he's saying at 1:45
Hey Ralph, we produce free to watch videos here at EMBN which we make ourselves. Like many other UA-cam channels these Ads play an important role in helping support this whilst keeping everything free to watch. For this video we now just have1 mid-role ad located in this video 👍
@@embn I can certainly appreciate the need to be paid for the work you do, but goddamn; if I have to have Alec Baldwin and the sodding eToro ad 3-4 times within 10 minutes I start to go a little spare and that unsubscribe button becomes ever so slightly more appealing. But like you say, many channels are doing it, so I'd probably be left with nothing to watch. I might have to capitulate and get a premium subscription. :)
You had mentioned how you could charge during a lunch break on a ride, but then at the end you said you should give it a little bit of time before charging after a ride. What kind of time frame should we allow the battery to rest before charging? So it could go from a state of discharge, relaxed to a ready state of charging.. Thank you for the great content!
Bumping this comment as I have the same question. Also I wonder if different brands have different definitions for a 'charging cycle'. Like if I let it charge from 50% to 60% on a Bosch, does that count as a 'cycle' just as much as charging it from 30% to 90%? I heard that for some brands it's just the number of charges and on other brands, like Bosch, it's the sum of the percentages you charge it for or something. I don't know, there's very little specific info with hard numbers out there.
Well a ebike battery is supposed to last 3 years but I don't trust 18650 cells from any brand they can explode even if you look after it and stop charging when battery is 100% I don't trust ebike battery's I plan to buy a new battery every year and have fun with the old cells by making them explode
I bought a replacement battery from Trevor at Royer Battery of Surrey B.C. It has Samsung 21700 cells with @5Ah at 48 volts for a 1200 watt hour rating. I have put 745 miles on my Surface 604 Colt with this battery in 2024 with no issues.
Great video. Some Information in the video is not entirely accurate when it comes to lithium batteries: charge cycle doesn't equal another charge cycle. Lithium ion doesn't like full discharge or full charge, this applies to all Lithium batteries, even from different manufacturers, and even with different chemical compositions. In essence if you discharge below 20% or above 80%this is very damaging to battery and could cut its cycles by a magnitude (depending on the implementation the exact number will vary). Yes the current/voltage at which you charge matters, so does temperature. What you can do is simply to try and calculate your ride to never go below 20%, this alone could improve the life span by many years(depending how much you ride / how you store it) . Also never charge cold battery, let it sit inside. If possible don't use turbo when battery(voltage) is low, especially in cold temps. Dont leave at 100% for long time. Cut it at 60-80% if at all possible - especially during long term winter storage!!!
Your proposal is based on out of date research from The Battery University, which is a busness selling special chargers, and it's quoted on every forum by people who don't understaand how ebike batteries work. The battery is designed to be charged to 100% (42v). That's why they give you a 42v charger. You get a 42v chatger from every manufacturer for a 36v battery. Did you not think that there might be a reason for that, or do you think they're trying to scam you into buying more batteries .Even the cheapo Amazon and Ebay bikes have 42v chargers! Of course you know better than every single ebike manufacturer in the world because you read something on the internet. When you short charge, not only do you compromise the balancing system, but it causes you to discharge deeper than you would for a fully-charged battery used for the same ride. Deep discharging is far worse for the battery than charging to the full charge it's designed for. Yes, you did say only discharge to 20%, but then you're giving up 40% of your battery, which is probably less than the extension of your battery's life using your method if it worked, which it doesn't. The idea is to be able to use your battery for the rides you plan, not plan your rides for how little battery you can use. And if you wanted to do a long ride that would use more than 60% of your battery, you'd need two batteries, so you'd have to buy a new one immediately instead of waiting 5 years until your first one wears out. In 5 years time, there will be new bikes and batteries, so you'd want to buy a new one anyway.
Got an error code 73 on my PW ST battery today - sad times :( under warranty - apparently it’s because the battery is giving too much voltage to the unit. Anyone know why this might be happening? To be fair - I do charge from 0 to full quote often as I’m a courier. To my knowledge this would only deplete the lifespan and not cause a voltage problem. FYI I’ve 7000km on my motor, it’s less than a year old - hopefully warranty will cover me.
Point 4 Don’t recharge immediately after use? How long do you wait? Didn’t understand that one. I got a charger with a 90% setting. Also another strategy is to get a big battery, and make sure it’s maximum discharge rating is far higher than the motor rating. The bigger the battery, the less the demand on constituent cells. Resistance is also less, improving efficiency. I got a massive 1450 Whr battery, 14s 9p, to go with a 1700 W max bbshd mid drive beast of a motor. I set the max current to never exceed 1/3 of the maximum cell discharge rate. Also this makes it possible to use the rule mentioned, if the battery is large you won’t flatten it on the ride, or need to fill it right up, which is the main way of shortening its life. Also high voltage 48/52 is better than low. Low voltage translates to higher resistance and shorter battery life in terms of distance covered...ie low voltage systems are inefficient. Also it’s worth understanding the basics of current electricity in these systems, even if you buy an expensive ready made ebike, to verify if the battery and cell type is really appropriate to the motor, and so you understand what you are getting for xxxx euro. You can get a far better bike for less money by getting a kit, which takes less than a day to fit.... Humongous battery, choice of accessories, huge range, UNLIMITED POWER!.....
I'm trying to not let my ebike battery get run all the way down, but it happened two times. Last night after a long distance bike ride I did from Rice Lake Wisconsin USA to Washburn county and back, I thought it might have had at least enough power left to get me home in a few minute bike ride from a grocery store called MarketPlace. I found I was wrong it ran totally out of power before I got home. My leg muscles were feeling quite a bit too sore to pedal anymore. I really hope the longevity of my ebike battery won't be hurt very much yet, as long as for sure when it gets down to a red light, I just use my own pedal power. Also I would just charge my ebike battery to 80%, but my ebike battery charger doesn't have a charge meter, so I've just been charging it til the green light comes on. Anyway this was a good video though with good information and tips on how to keep getting the best battery performance and keep it lasting for a long time.
Thanks for your very informative video. I know little about Lithium Ion, but have lots of experience with Lithium Polymer. (Li-Ion and LiPo respectively) However, from what I can gather, these two types have much in common. And thanks for sharing your knowledge for this noob. (me) My main experience is with radio control flying, and the high discharge that LiPo's offer. (Up to and beyond 100 C, or 100 X battery capacity. eg- 200 amps from a 2,000mah battery!) I have reports of some people storing LiPo's in their fridge, not sure what this would equate to with Li-Ion. I store my Li-Po's at 3.7 volts per cell, and use a specific charger/discharger for this task. I assume that the battery management system mentioned in this video would take care of this task but may be more limited as to individual cells, maybe not. Agree that charging whilst battery is still warm/hot from use is best avoided. And all the info I can come by advises to charge at no more than 1 C, but with bike batteries this will be out of our control without purchasing a new charger. I would also advise checking voltage every few weeks when not in use, to manage static discharge. The Li-HV batteries mentioned below by Joshua C, are, to the best of my knowledge, Lithium Polymer. Different chemistry and still fairly new. Supposedly the chemistry can handle the 4.35 volts per cell but time will tell as to the longevity. Many in the R/C community, myself included, don't mind the trade off regarding performance/longevity. My favourite RC model easily exceeds 200 Kmh and the thrill far exceeds the expense. Much different to mountain bike riding, where I want my gear to last. All info provided by me is only in my opinion. Thanks again, Merv the Hotliner pilot, and now E-bike fanatic.
Would be very useful to have a charger that allowed you to set up a limited charge by default. I have no idea where I could get one or what I should be looking for. Many recommendations as to what to do. No details on how to do it. 80% how?
Hi, thanks for the video. I’m after some advise, I have a specialized levo gen 1 fattie bike and the battery only charges to 86%, I changed the battery thinking it was that but have the same problem with the replacement battery? Any ideas how to reset the charger/charge limit?
I guess in some cases if someone is away from home a lot a charged leisure battery in the vehicle could help with re-charging your bikes battery if you can't have the vehicle engine running, just a thought.
I heard that if a Li-Ion battery is allowed to completely discharge it cannot be re-charged. How do you prevent this if you store the battery say, for the winter/
Winter isn't excuse for not riding. (icy road even has super low rolling resistance) Anyway healthy battery stored properly (cool room temperature) doesn't shelf discharge that much over one winter.
I got my new ebike today and used it immediately for about 30 to 45 minutes. Now I read I needed to charge it for 8 to 12 hours before using it for the first time. Did I just compromise the battery? 😢
If you didn't discharge battery down to low charge level nothing happened. Around 30% would be still good level. Below that it starts to push cells into voltage range where chemical reaction starts wearing them and leaving battery into lower state of charge for longer time would be harmfull. But also high charge/voltage of cells starts different chemical reaction wearing cells. If you want to maximize life of lithium chemisty batteries you should avoid charging over 80% unless actually needing that longer operating time. (and longer no use storage ideally at around 50% charge)
Hello mate, i buy new E-bike crussis with samsung 720 Wh battery (li-on) and problem is becase i dont know is good get full emty battery and then charge or min 10% ?? ty
I'm new to ebikes and I'm surprised, dont these things come with intelligent trickle chargers? I've been using one for many years on my motorbike. Plug it in and it maintains the battery all by itself.
I am new to ebikes good useful video on batteries. I have a question though, I keep my ebike in my garden shed should i remove my battery and take it in house to avoid those extremes of heat and cold especially in the winter?
Keep your battery in your home. Always charged my battery in the garage. After three years I had to buy a new $675 battery . They told me the battery reached 140 degrees and ruined it. I now bring into my home after every ride. Expensive lesson.
One Hole cyklus is NOT when from 50 to 100% Its eks. from 0% to 100% 0r 2 times from 50% to 100% Thanks for a Great Channel with a LOT off Good stuff... Kim Denmark.
Excellent video, i would like to add: Never put lithium batteries in a landfill! They start fires. Many waste truck drivers or rubbish tip operators have had to risk life and limb putting these fires out! Lithium is likely to burst into flames at temperatures as low as 80 degrees Celsius. So power tool batteries included take them to the DIY store for recycling.
0:31. Wow, only half a minute in and he already has his head buried up his back side. A 50% to 100% charge cycle **IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL LIKE** a 0% to 100% charge cycle. Let's say you can do 1k cycles of 0% to 100% before you degrade your battery to 80% of its original capacity, then your battery could probably do 10k to 100k cycles if you kept it in the 50% to 100% range. The deeper you go past a 50% discharge, the more wear you put on your battery, and that last 20% to 25% is SUPER stressful for it, if you NEVER drop below a 25% charge, you'd probably 5x your battery life. Also, the amount of time your battery spends in a deep discharged state also impacts battery life. So don't discharge your batteries and then leave them like that. Also, batteries prefer to be stored at about an ~80% charge.
Ideal battery temperature for charging is about room temperature. And if riding in cold environment (especialyl freezing) battery might be below that and again in hot weather battery might be really hot after the ride.
My battery got stuck in the frame. it won't open and when I turn the key to try to open the battery there is no resistance like it should be. And another thing to note is that at the top of the battery on the right side there is a little gap between the battery and the frame, like if it is not completely clicked in the frame. Any suggestions/solutions? I would appreciate it.
Thanks for this and your other videos - I've been watching them religiously. I have a question. I just bought an emtb and the bike store owner told me to completely discharge the battery and completely charge it for the first 4 or so cycles. Is this a good thing to do? Bad? Or does it not make much difference? Any help appreciated. Thanks man.
Hi Peter. The full charge/discharge ideology was for the old nickel cadmium batteries. Lithium ion (which your bike undoubtably is) does not require that. It’s a common misconception.
I'm very new to ebikes. If you have 10 seconds I have a quick question sir; if someone was running 2 hub motors and their combined max current from the controllers was 60 amps, and you used a battery with 50amp BMS (52v 20ah), what would happen? If you ran WOT you may trip the BMS of the battery and it come back on after a few seconds? Or something worse? Thank you!
Hey guys keep up the great work! I have a challenge for you. I have an ebike but I don’t have a stand. So when it comes to lubing my chain it’s difficult because as you know you can’t peddle backwards, I don’t have holes in my chain ring to use a tool to block it, and a stick just doesn’t work for me. So, can you think of a more professional way to solve what is, I know, a common problem.
I saw a video (think it was on Rob rides channel - possibly an emtb maintenance video) where he put a long allen key into the bolt and rotated the crank back to engage with it enabling the chain to be rotated backwards.
You can buy a bike stand which holds your bike by the rear triangle which allows you to turn the pedals and clean and lube the chain. I have bought one for about £7-10 from eBay and use it to stand and lube the bike away from home.
Use a shed door frame or garden gate. Open the door or gate, put a broom stick across with nails/hooks to hang it, on each side of the door frame. Set the height to hook under the front of the bike saddle. With the brrom across the doorway, It will hold your back wheel off the ground with the front wheel on the ground.
Hi Ian, these mid-roll ad breaks were auto placed, we have removed them as it's a short video. Like many other UA-cam channels, these Ads play an important role in helping support this whilst keeping everything free to watch.
@@embn I use ad-blocker on my laptop, friends I know use chromecast has mid breaks that really shit me off, to me CC is a bunch of shit, if I like a YT clip, I download it to the PC, then dub it to a SATA HDD to play via my DVR and CRT TV, no buffering and freeze up BS
There should be a way to discharge the battery for storage, i have fully charge my bike, but the next 12 days i cant ride because of rain, but bike keep fully charge.
Hello from the midwest USA! This a great and timely video post for me right now, as I was just wondering and trying to research the topic. Do you happen to know if the Haibike Yamaha batteries account for the partial charges in the same manner? Also, is this info stored within the BMS and available to the owner to see on the display unit on the handlebars? Thanks for all you're doing with the content you put out.
That bit was complete twaddle. A full charge cycle is always 0 to 100% on li ion packs (which every mainstream brand uses, they are the same chemistry as used in electric cars). Any manufacturer that counts a charge cycle as every time you plug in is simply trying to pull a fast one art warranty returns. I guess your only defence is to check the small print before you buy.
I think all the battery tips (including smartphones) should be part of battery firmware. It must have different modes and one of them is "safe" or "long live" mode. I'm always asking myself why it is still not implemented.
if you want to keep your iPhone battery in perfect condition you should charge it at 40% and stop charging it at 80% this is the ideal range i have an iPhone 8 Plus 256gb that`s about 3 years old and still have 96% battery keeping to these rules Ive never fully de charged it though which they say i should do every few cycles on my NCM Moscow 48v.
What about discussing what temperatures you can safely use ebikes in? How cold is too cold? It is minus 25°C here right now. Should I avoid riding when it get that cold?
This is why I'm getting batteries without the fancy case, just the battery with the electronics that I can stick in a bike bag. When it comes to replace it, I won't be spending as much. Just but a new battery and stick it in that bag on my frame. But also really cause I'm poor and on a time limit to get this done, so have to get the best specs I can at the cheapest I can get them ;~;
Problem with 80% charge is 80% ride distance....that would totally suck. I have 13 amp hour(624WH) and with mid level assist I can cover up to 110km. If I had a 900WH battery, would I want to treat it like a 700? Imagine buying a car with a 100 litre gas tank but it is recommended you only fill to 80. Having a larger heavier much more expensive high capacity battery, only to use like a much lower capacity battery does not compute. Hopefully R&D with get us further along. Over all still love my eMTB, over 8000KM in 2 years. Battery IS degraded, but I can still get some good rides in. Looking into a new one, and keeping the old for known shorter rides, or as a back up on a real long ride. - Cheers
![How To Ruin Your eMTB In 9 Easy Steps [Watch This To Avoid]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1tDBsy6Wiis/mqdefault.jpg)
![How To Ruin Your eMTB In 9 Easy Steps [Watch This To Avoid]](/img/tr.png)
How do you look after your battery? Do you have any tips? Let us know 👇
Storing the batteries at around 50% is an easy fix. But some drone batteries have auto-discharge that will take the charge level to around 50% automatically after about 10 days or so. Are there any ebike batteries that has this function?
Couple of points.
1. Shimano cycles are based on a full charge / discharge. You can use etubes and diagnostic to report cycle count
2. Shimano charger will charge fully, then go into a trickle mode then turn off without the need to set a timer or unplug. That's what the BMS is for.
3. You can run a Shimano battery flat (flat to the point of a auto power shutdown that is) the BMS will prevent you taking the cells below a safe margin. I.e even tho the bike won't provide power to the motor the battery still has a safe level of charge. If you run Di2 this is also evident as the battery too low to power the bike, still powers the di2 to allow shifting. At some point that too will be prevented but the battery is still not "flat" and a margin of charge safety still exists.
Thank you for the video, could you guys do a video of emtb with internal gear hubs? I have seen some off roads bikes on Google images used internal gears instead of classic cassette but I wanted to know more the down points and advantages
I look pretty worse for wear!
most batteries are made from a black plastic case, which is good for plastic durability outdoors but not so great for heat absorbtion. black batteries and also dark frames of down tube integrated designs will heat up the cells when exposed to sunlight. battery capacity degradation is primarily a function of cycle times and heat exposure. you can spray the battery case with chrome spray make it reflect sunlight and avoid heat absorbtion.
It’s good to see someone take time to give some insight. Cheers!
You should emphasize proper storage voltage since that has a dramatic effect on cycle life. Also even if you aren't using the bike for just a couple days you should be making sure it's at storage voltage, it does not take long for a battery sitting at 100% to degrade the battery. Basically if your not riding the bike make sure it's at 40-60% charge, then only charge before you plan to use the bike.
He said that very thing.
But this really stinks. How would I know if I am going to ride the bike for a while? How do I discharge them if I am not riding it? I have small ebikes here for for my grandchildren to ride. I don't know when they are coming. So they are sitting out there right now at 100% charge. Do I need to go out there and ride each kids bike for 10 miles to get it to 40%? And then it seems, I should charge them when they are coming over to what, 80% and therefore have decreased range? This all isn't making much sense or certainly unfortunately not very practical.
Lol garbage.
Problem with that is I would then never get to ride. I ride almost daily, and charge over night for the next day. If I leave it at 40-60, then it is 2 hours to get up to full. I want the bike ready to ride 60-80-100km at a moments notice.
We need more R&D so batteries in the future are that much better.
@@ronbonnell1775 I agree 100%. I want my bike ready for a maximum ride at a moments notice. I only leave it undercharged when i know it is going to be awhile before a next ride.
I ride in the winter, but not every day, so I plan my charging cycles to leave them down, and then top up a few hours before I want to go. If I was out of action for weeks/months then i can see storing at 40%.
I took my new steed, 1st EMTB out for it's 'shakedown' the other day and have to say, these things are fookin brilliant! If I'd bought a new 'standard' MTB, I think I'd be disappointed. The motor really adds to that next level feel, it helps with the ups and the extra heft helps with that more capable DH feel. I used to go out and dread the ups but do it to get fit for the downs. You really have to get out at least 2x a week to get and maintain fitness which isn't easy. Now, I can look forward to ups as I can get more downs. I spent more time out on the trails and got more done. In all honesty, they are cheating, it makes it so easy, you piss all over the ups but they are done so quick, you start enjoying riding. You'll get loads more riding done in a shorter time.
Same here, I got my focus jam2 about a month ago. Riding trails I otherwise wouldn't even contemplate on a non ebike.
This is what Chuck Norris would do.
Yes steep technical rides are now fun, so much less impact if you should fall while climbing vs flying down hill. Get your kicks going up as well as down😆
The problem with not charging to 100% before a ride is that it adds to my range anxiety. However, just driving to a known short distance destination is the only time I don't charge fully. When I'm out 22 miles from home on my 70+LB fat eBike, I want to know for certain I'm getting home. And in case of a mechanical or electrical failure, I have Velosurance which will send a van out to the nearest street and get my ass home. I'm too old to be walking my bike out in the middle of nowhere.
Dont forget you have pedals on a bike :)
@Character Zoo HQ what about the term mechanical failure has you thinking he can still pedal? On his bike a broken chain is probably the most likely mechanical failure 😅
For longevity of a lithium battery a few things matter, in no particular order.
-It's operating temperature when charging and discharging and storing. Charging/discharging a very cold or a very hot battery will degrade it somewhat faster. Usually, advanced systems have a cut off to prevent charging at over 40C.
-The cell (the battery pack contains several 18500 battery cells) is most stable at its nominal voltage of around 3.7V, its operating range is 4.2V when fully charged and around 3.2V when fully discharged. Technically charging cycles between 20% to 80% should result in a prolonged battery life. This also means that it's better to top off your battery at say 40% if you are before a ride that will take it to near flat, then allowing a deep cycle.
-How quickly it charges and discharges (the sustained current flow), the lower the current the better, theoretically eco is better than turbo for battery health but turbo is so much fun :).
Also, I think the "1000 cycles" is referring to the average capacity loss after the "1000" full charge/discharge cycle, but of course, this depends on the conditions.
Think you mean 18650 cell
Is GMBNs claim that recharging a half full battery counts as a full "cycle" just like charging from 10-20% accurate? I've heard conflicting info.
One video claimed always keeping it at 20-80% would double lifespan, but does that account for the fact that each cycle is only 60%? If not that's only ~10% slower degradation, if yes then 20-80 method should make a battery last almost 4x more "cycles".
Any thoughts on this?
Charging to keep between 80-20% will definitely make a battery last longer. I have a 5 year old Vado with around 30,000km on it and the app is showing 90% battery health. I mostly ride at medium assist and have done approximately 1200 charging cycles. I try and keep the battery between30 and 80%. One thing that would be great would be if manufacturers supplied chargers that could cut off at any desired level. This is common in cars and laptops.@@justinbogart278
I just keep to basics, look after it as much as I can. Keep it around 50-75% when not in use and about every dozen or so charges, uses, I let the battery drain to almost empty and charge to full every so often.
The information out there is very confusing. Bike manufacturer gives different instructions. Every expert tells you something different.
I know alot about batteries. But watched anyway because you guys always have great videos and great points, thanks.
Great tips!
Just ordered a new Levo so im trying to learn as much as i can. I have never had an emtb before, so there is a lot to learn.
Great video! I just learned not to charge right after ride and not to charge all night. I was doing both. Great tips!
What? I thought in fact that he said to charge it right after the ride.
@@ronbonnell1775 I'm pretty sure he DID, but it could have been taken ambiguously, I agree. I guess it wasn't the be-all, end-all video.😀
A simple tip is to just never fully charge it, and never fully discharge it. And never leave it plugged in for extened time periods. I keep mine between 40-90% all the time. Been doing that for nearly a year and I have not had any compromise on battery performance as of yet.
@@Theultrazombiekiller How is it now ?
There’s a chemical reaction at 100% that deteriorates the battery, this is why storing at 100% is bad. Best to leave battery at 80% and then top off right before the ride unless you ride everyday. 100% is only bad when stored at 100%, not when used right away.
finally someone cleared this out. thanks!
Thank you. Am I correct in thinking that its the same when fully discharged that a chemical reaction takes place, hence not leaving it empty also?
@@jamjar1106 there’s is not the same chemical reaction at empty. It is still recommended to not drain the battery to 0% though, I think because if you accidentally drain below 0% it will damage the battery. I use my battery typically between 80%-10% unless I need my maximum range, then I use 100%-5%, but I have a Bluetooth BMS and I’m capable of looking at, and setting, the exact percentage of charge my battery cuts out on my phone.
if the battery is charged at 100% how long can you leave it at that charge?
@@andrewhillphotosvideos2909 the less time the better. I don’t think there’s a magic number your looking for since it’s probably a linear degradation over time. But if you insist on a number I’d say 3-7 days per month, just guessing
When are you going to do a review on that Canyon??? Thinking about getting one!! Cheers lads! M
You don't need a review, just get one! Only issue I see, it's the old motor and the battery isn't quite up to date with others but its lighter so may negate all that. You could wait till next year to see if they have an update or pick one up in the outlet, I have the older alu one and it fookin rocks! I'd have a carbon one all day long. I'd also look at the YTs
A lot of people whining about the ads. I don't see them because I close my eyes when they come on.
3:47 lithium Ion is the battery type used for big laptops,ebikes , scooters etc, Li-po batteries are what current consumer handheld devices uses! Faster discharge/recharge rate and also a lot more compact/lighter and generally easier top make into smaller fitting sizes/shapes.
I would have liked to hear some facts to back up his #4 don't immediately recharge after a ride. On my first 2018 Turbo Levo I always waited an hour or 2 after a ride and I always tried to stop recharging at 90% and limit discharge to 40%. After about 60 charge cycles I had only 90% battery health and at 85 charge cycles I had one charge indicator light always showing red and Specialized replaced the battery. On my 2020 T Levo I put it on charge immediately after a ride and leave it plugged in overnight or even a few days. Now at 50 charge cycles and
3500 kms in 10 months I still have 100% battery health. I rarely get home with less than 40% remaining and I recharge anytime it's less than 85%. Another thing I always do is plug in the charger before connecting it to the bike. I noticed that my electric scooter/trotinette makes a big spark if I don't do this, so I figure it makes sense to avoid this discharge surge, but I have no facts to back it up.
the output caps in the charger cause the spark cause the battery is putting a surge across the caps
This model Levo had battery issues and motor issues more than they should have, i see them for sale used with both replaced by warrantee.
Another good tip is to occasionally charge to 100% as then the clever internal electronics will balance the individual cells...this will optimise the range.
BMS should manage and balance cells all the time.
Every time you take your battery over ~80% you loose a little of capacity.
I’m confused. My battery are called Panasonic Tesla cells. Is it okay to charge them overnight?
Also I’ve accidentlalt disconnected the battery while the battery was still on. Will there be any severe repercussions for that? It’s only happened twice. I’m a bit worried I might need to replace the battery. Hope not
@@gregoriodia by Bosch this is definitely not true. The balancing happens ONLY at the last 20%. By the time the differencies between the cells are growing. My ebike last 20% can be 10 hours sometimes. The Bosch BMS has separate CPU chip and the intelligent BMS IC works as simple sensor/driver.
One question on battery replacement, how long manufacturers are ensuring to produce the battery as spare part? I wonder if after 5 years I will still be able to find a replacement battery for my eMtb. Since those bikes costs a lot of money, there will be a lot of people keeping them for a long time, but if you cannot change the battery (or the motor or the commands) will you be left with a piece of junk?
I'm hoping if there's a decent advance in battery tech I will be able to get a retrofit upgrade. My current Bosch powertube is 625wh, I imagine in a few years a similar size battery would be of higher capacity.
All lithium battery packs can be rebuilt by technicians specializing in this service. Mostly they do power tool batteries but the e bikes use mostly the same individual cells inside the packs. A pack is made up of multiple batteries. The tech' takes out any bad ones and replaces with new ones, test that the pack is balanced and charging and discharging in a safe manner then add a short warantee and your back in action. Cost can be low compared to a whole new battery.
I am a relatively new Ebike owner. I’ve ridden conventional bikes for the past 30 years, but now in my early 70s, I feel the need for some assistance, when riding up hills or against strong headwinds. I live in South Florida, USA, where, during the summer months we get frequent rains, and I will occasionally get caught in a rain storm. How well protected are the batteries in the bike against a rain storm. I understand that when cleaning the bike, you do not apply a very strong spray of water, but in a typical rain storm, how vulnerable are the batteries in the bike to the rain while riding? I’ve had people tell me to wrap the battery compartment using some plastic material if I’m going to possibly get caught in the rain. I find it hard to believe that an E bike costing upwards of 4 or 5K, USD, should need to be wrapped with saran wrap to protect it from the rain ! Would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks very much!
What about region motors are they not stealing charge cycles?
Great video. I.have a lapierre overvolt winter still hoping to ride but if only twice a week so i still store battery inside??
Li-Ion cells have virtually no self discharge, however the bms uses energy as it constantly monitors individual cell voltage. a li-ion battery without bms does pretty much not discharge even after years (at storage voltage).
Jonas, if I were to store a Li-Ion battery for the winter months, at what level of charge do you think it would need to be to prevent discharge below zero?
@@keithcarrier1910 if you want to store it for many months it's best to disconnect the BMS at 50% SOC (e.g. 3.6V per cell). no BMS, no discharge. Some BMS are powered by the plus pole balance wire which can be interrupted withba switch. or the entire balance wire harness can be unplugged from the BMS. A typical BMS (e.g. Daly) will have a current draw of 0.05mA. that isn't much, but possibly other BMSs have a higher standby current draw. for a few months I guess you're fine leaving it at about 80%.
How do you disconnect the BMS?
Thanks
@@MrGuy999guy I cannot recommend doing it on Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc. BMSs as there might be issues with initialisiation. On 3rd party BMS (which are often higher quality...) like JBD or Daly you can disconnect or switch the positive pole balance lead which supplies power to the BMS
Also how far should you let a battery go down to before charging, you said 0% is a bad idea, what’s the limit?
Thanks in advance.
Can you confirm that you need to wait 1 hour after ride before recharging do to hot or warm battery?
You will be lucky to get a reply mate ,they very rarely answer anyone
You dont, they are talking nonsense. Its better to charge it at ambient temperature but most decent batteries have a very good casing design which is design to radiate heat away from the battery so it will cool very quickly when not in use. These guys are just trying to think of an excuse to make a video tbh.
5-10 mins maybe, but 60 is completely unnecessary.
If you've been riding hard (turbo/Boost/flat out in trail) for the latter part of your ride, the battery will be HOT ! In these instances, leave it an hour to cool down to ambient temperature or you can kill it. Otherwise, you should be fine. Same with anything with high current use like electric chainsaw or electric leaf blower. The batteries are hot and will most likely die if you charge them straight away.
I have a Hialong 52v battery. Does the battery power switch need to be on to charge it ?
Great info!
Question: Can I use a solar panel to charge ebike battery?
You can, but if you won't have some stabilizer then voltage variations will quickly deteriorate the battery.
You can charge anything with solar panels as long as you have the proper setup for you panels.
Example, your solar panels will charge up batteries during the day (the panels pass through a voltage regulator before going to the batteties) and then you hookup those batteries to an inverter into which you can plug any 120v appliance or gadget you wish.
Yes, but make sure you have a solar charge controller that regulates the power going to it otherwise you can damage the batteries by overcharging.
Didn't know about the 80% charge prolonging lifespan👍 be good if the manufactures put an option on the charger to do that.
Yeah, not certain whether this is accurate. Certainly not discharging below 20% extends cycle life significantly. @embn do you have any links to hard data showing charging to 100% is bad for cycle life?
@@uavr1286 There is no 100% proof that charging to 100% is bad for battery cells
It simply stands as a fact because if you are discharging the battery from 80% to 20% you simply use only 60% of a full cycle. And I am pretty sure that the 100% charge is actually lower in reality, simply as safety from the manufacturer. For me the best option to prolong the life of a battery is to have a second one.....
@@mallias2683 Way ahead of you on the second one,I also have rigged up a carrier so I have an epic range now; 40 - 60 off road miles
there is a lot of reaseach to back up the 80% claims TSJ batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries. 80% or lower storage voltage makes a difference . 2 year old battery SOH 97% from storing at or below 80% how is yours looking ?
My new BeeCool eBike battery will not 100% charge in the maximum 12 hour recommended charge time. The last indicator light which represents 25% remains red. Can I check the battery with a volt meter to see if it is fully charged? I’m thinking perhaps it’s a problem with the charge indicator light not the battery?
How do you tell how much charge you put in your depleted battery ?.
Bafang M620/Ultra with 52 volt 17ah/ battery and I have no idea how long it would take to get it to 80%, and how could I ever measure that ?
Sorry just a question man, any input is good input, thank you in advance
Great video as I’m new to ebikes this was very helpful 👍🏻
Wow, battery prices are high in the UK. Here in the states, my 750 W-hr battery is about $500.
@Foxtrot Oscar Well, you guys have to support the Royals too, so your taxes are much higher than ours (sorry mate, couldn't resist).
I used to ride an old scooter back in early 2000s of them brick batteries which I recharged when at lowest level. Now today Im using BMS Battery and unlike the old ones this battery is mention to recharge after every use instead of letting drop to lowest to re charge. It makes sense of recharging after every use due to the set of batteries at top is being used up before the lower ones as the lower ones always be on stand by of their turn. Keeps that Optimal power use every time I take out bike. But the real factor is how you use PAS knowing the more you use PAS the more power is conserved. Looking at display when Im on say 3 PAS and using peddles the wattage output reads zero when using this which in return my recharge time is less than it would if I used throttle going same mileage of peddles.I just got back into E Bikes from decades back of my last E scooter which suks on the older batteries and with these new types, Im loving this as very PRACTICAL to finally have the Tech of E Bikes in its prime..
Repacking the cells should be easy enough and a lot cheaper than replacing the whole unit. Hopefully as ebike are getting more popular this service will become readily available.
Not currently. But I haven't looked. There's a few UA-cam videos of people doing it.
Err, when you said 'repacking the cells' did you mean 'replacing the cells'?
@@giotto4321yes I meant repacking the battery with new cells.
Can you please explain: Things not to do #4 - putting your battery on charge as soon as you get home from a ride, you need to let your battery go from a state of discharge to a state of charge...How long should one wait before charging their battery after a ride?
Unless the battery is warm or hot to the touch it won't matter.
@@Rippy211 correct
I ride my fat tire ebike only in snow so by the time I get back it is quite cold, and batteries don’t do well or charge well when cold.
So I think the advice is don’t charge the batteries if either very hot or very cold.
Hi I lost my keys for my shimano steps BM-E6010 battery lock carrier. The shimano steps BT-E6010 battery casing seems to have some type of screws attached all the way around the battery casing, possibly T9 screws or something similar, can anyone give me any advice please. Many thanks.
Can you upgrade your battery I’ve got a Nukeproof megawatt 297 comp an it runs a Shimano E8035, 504Wh and I notice it doesn’t really last the longest so could I put a more powerful Shimano battery in ? Or worth just investing in a spare battery
Ideally, we need probably 2.5x to 3x capacity than it takes for the distance we travel in a day. And the bms and charger need to team up to keep it in the safe zone. Would help tremendously to have an easy to read meter. One battery manufacturer selling on a common marketplace instructs that their batteries must be powered on while charging to charge completely. What's up with that?
So basically you read the bikes manual....
However I did think your comment regarding recycling and reusing, do you know of any company’s that can re-cell ones older battery?
Do it yourself, they sell kits and there are tutorials on it.
I know this is an older video but it applies so Ill ask, hopefully someone can get back to me? I just too dekivery of an emtb with a shimano steps system with a 504wh gen 2 pack. It arrived absolutely dead, and I dont mean BMS protection mode dead, but zero voltage within it dead, and I estimate it was like that for months as I got it on clearance so it was probably sitting a shipping container for ages?
I put it on charge and it wouldnt charhe for close to an hour then it finally started. It went over what any even slightly partially charged pack would accept as my power meter showed a total of 585wh go into this 504wh pack.
My question is: what are my options as the company I bought it from wont do anything apart from me returning the entire bike, which Im happy with the bike so thats extreme, and they say Shimano has a 2yr warranty but the packs Ive had in the past that have had this level of neglect usually still make it past 2yrs but not by much and they fall off hard!
Do you think itd be worth my time to explain this issue to shimano or am I borked and stuck with this battery thatll inevitably fail hard?
Anyway, tjank to anyone who has some insight!
Ive been getting alot outve this channel and all its brethren so big thanks!
I have a bosch battery and a standard (4a) charger and a fast charger (6a). Is the standard charger better for the battery health? I can't really hear what he's saying at 1:45
Yes, definitely. Only fast charge if you have to.
Damn. Chill on the midroll ads.There's monetising and then there's monetising. It gets annoying when there's an ad every couple of minutes.
The adds are making it more & more frustrating to watch YT
Hey Ralph, we produce free to watch videos here at EMBN which we make ourselves. Like many other UA-cam channels these Ads play an important role in helping support this whilst keeping everything free to watch. For this video we now just have1 mid-role ad located in this video 👍
@@embn I can certainly appreciate the need to be paid for the work you do, but goddamn; if I have to have Alec Baldwin and the sodding eToro ad 3-4 times within 10 minutes I start to go a little spare and that unsubscribe button becomes ever so slightly more appealing. But like you say, many channels are doing it, so I'd probably be left with nothing to watch. I might have to capitulate and get a premium subscription. :)
To be fair, they are free vids, a 5 sec vid is no biggie, smash that skip button or keep them in bike money!
@@ralph17p Only in America, I got nothing here in England and I ain't got ad blocker
You had mentioned how you could charge during a lunch break on a ride, but then at the end you said you should give it a little bit of time before charging after a ride. What kind of time frame should we allow the battery to rest before charging? So it could go from a state of discharge, relaxed to a ready state of charging.. Thank you for the great content!
Bumping this comment as I have the same question.
Also I wonder if different brands have different definitions for a 'charging cycle'. Like if I let it charge from 50% to 60% on a Bosch, does that count as a 'cycle' just as much as charging it from 30% to 90%?
I heard that for some brands it's just the number of charges and on other brands, like Bosch, it's the sum of the percentages you charge it for or something. I don't know, there's very little specific info with hard numbers out there.
Lead-acid and Nickel? Really? No bike uses that. Unless your bike is in a museum.
Razor and Bullet scooters use lead batteries
Well a ebike battery is supposed to last 3 years but I don't trust 18650 cells from any brand they can explode even if you look after it and stop charging when battery is 100% I don't trust ebike battery's I plan to buy a new battery every year and have fun with the old cells by making them explode
@@jonathanoxlade4252 It's not the cells, it's the BMS, or rather lack thereof that causes said explosions...
I bought a replacement battery from Trevor at Royer Battery of Surrey B.C.
It has Samsung 21700 cells with @5Ah at 48 volts for a 1200 watt hour rating.
I have put 745 miles on my Surface 604 Colt with this battery in 2024 with no issues.
hi what the make of youre e bike battery, thanks very much
Great video. Some Information in the video is not entirely accurate when it comes to lithium batteries: charge cycle doesn't equal another charge cycle. Lithium ion doesn't like full discharge or full charge, this applies to all Lithium batteries, even from different manufacturers, and even with different chemical compositions. In essence if you discharge below 20% or above 80%this is very damaging to battery and could cut its cycles by a magnitude (depending on the implementation the exact number will vary). Yes the current/voltage at which you charge matters, so does temperature. What you can do is simply to try and calculate your ride to never go below 20%, this alone could improve the life span by many years(depending how much you ride / how you store it) . Also never charge cold battery, let it sit inside. If possible don't use turbo when battery(voltage) is low, especially in cold temps. Dont leave at 100% for long time. Cut it at 60-80% if at all possible - especially during long term winter storage!!!
Your proposal is based on out of date research from The Battery University, which is a busness selling special chargers, and it's quoted on every forum by people who don't understaand how ebike batteries work.
The battery is designed to be charged to 100% (42v). That's why they give you a 42v charger. You get a 42v chatger from every manufacturer for a 36v battery. Did you not think that there might be a reason for that, or do you think they're trying to scam you into buying more batteries .Even the cheapo Amazon and Ebay bikes have 42v chargers! Of course you know better than every single ebike manufacturer in the world because you read something on the internet.
When you short charge, not only do you compromise the balancing system, but it causes you to discharge deeper than you would for a fully-charged battery used for the same ride. Deep discharging is far worse for the battery than charging to the full charge it's designed for. Yes, you did say only discharge to 20%, but then you're giving up 40% of your battery, which is probably less than the extension of your battery's life using your method if it worked, which it doesn't. The idea is to be able to use your battery for the rides you plan, not plan your rides for how little battery you can use. And if you wanted to do a long ride that would use more than 60% of your battery, you'd need two batteries, so you'd have to buy a new one immediately instead of waiting 5 years until your first one wears out.
In 5 years time, there will be new bikes and batteries, so you'd want to buy a new one anyway.
@@hughjardon3538 the post itself is out of date. It's 2 + years old
Do I always need to put the battery on full charge? Will the charger know the battery doesn't need to be fully charged? Great video! Thank you!
do you charge battery on or off
I put my charger on a timer and set it so that it only charges up to 80-90%. If I'm doing a big ride, I'll do that last 10-20% the morning of.
Has anyone found a bottle cage battery compatible with the Trek Rail models?
Got an error code 73 on my PW ST battery today - sad times :( under warranty - apparently it’s because the battery is giving too much voltage to the unit. Anyone know why this might be happening? To be fair - I do charge from 0 to full quote often as I’m a courier. To my knowledge this would only deplete the lifespan and not cause a voltage problem. FYI I’ve 7000km on my motor, it’s less than a year old - hopefully warranty will cover me.
Point 4 Don’t recharge immediately after use? How long do you wait? Didn’t understand that one.
I got a charger with a 90% setting. Also another strategy is to get a big battery, and make sure it’s maximum discharge rating is far higher than the motor rating.
The bigger the battery, the less the demand on constituent cells. Resistance is also less, improving efficiency. I got a massive 1450 Whr battery, 14s 9p, to go with a 1700 W max bbshd mid drive beast of a motor. I set the max current to never exceed 1/3 of the maximum cell discharge rate.
Also this makes it possible to use the rule mentioned, if the battery is large you won’t flatten it on the ride, or need to fill it right up, which is the main way of shortening its life.
Also high voltage 48/52 is better than low. Low voltage translates to higher resistance and shorter battery life in terms of distance covered...ie low voltage systems are inefficient.
Also it’s worth understanding the basics of current electricity in these systems, even if you buy an expensive ready made ebike, to verify if the battery and cell type is really appropriate to the motor, and so you understand what you are getting for xxxx euro. You can get a far better bike for less money by getting a kit, which takes less than a day to fit....
Humongous battery, choice of accessories, huge range, UNLIMITED POWER!.....
I'm trying to not let my ebike battery get run all the way down, but it happened two times. Last night after a long distance bike ride I did from Rice Lake Wisconsin USA to Washburn county and back, I thought it might have had at least enough power left to get me home in a few minute bike ride from a grocery store called MarketPlace. I found I was wrong it ran totally out of power before I got home. My leg muscles were feeling quite a bit too sore to pedal anymore. I really hope the longevity of my ebike battery won't be hurt very much yet, as long as for sure when it gets down to a red light, I just use my own pedal power. Also I would just charge my ebike battery to 80%, but my ebike battery charger doesn't have a charge meter, so I've just been charging it til the green light comes on. Anyway this was a good video though with good information and tips on how to keep getting the best battery performance and keep it lasting for a long time.
Why do we care what store you stopped at?! Anyone not from Wisconsin, has no idea where Rice Lake is or how far it is from Washburn County. 😂
Thanks for your very informative video.
I know little about Lithium Ion, but have lots of experience with Lithium Polymer. (Li-Ion and LiPo respectively) However, from what I can gather, these two types have much in common. And thanks for sharing your knowledge for this noob. (me) My main experience is with radio control flying, and the high discharge that LiPo's offer. (Up to and beyond 100 C, or 100 X battery capacity. eg- 200 amps from a 2,000mah battery!) I have reports of some people storing LiPo's in their fridge, not sure what this would equate to with Li-Ion. I store my Li-Po's at 3.7 volts per cell, and use a specific charger/discharger for this task. I assume that the battery management system mentioned in this video would take care of this task but may be more limited as to individual cells, maybe not. Agree that charging whilst battery is still warm/hot from use is best avoided. And all the info I can come by advises to charge at no more than 1 C, but with bike batteries this will be out of our control without purchasing a new charger. I would also advise checking voltage every few weeks when not in use, to manage static discharge.
The Li-HV batteries mentioned below by Joshua C, are, to the best of my knowledge, Lithium Polymer. Different chemistry and still fairly new. Supposedly the chemistry can handle the 4.35 volts per cell but time will tell as to the longevity. Many in the R/C community, myself included, don't mind the trade off regarding performance/longevity. My favourite RC model easily exceeds 200 Kmh and the thrill far exceeds the expense. Much different to mountain bike riding, where I want my gear to last. All info provided by me is only in my opinion.
Thanks again,
Merv the Hotliner pilot, and now E-bike fanatic.
Would be very useful to have a charger that allowed you to set up a limited charge by default. I have no idea where I could get one or what I should be looking for. Many recommendations as to what to do. No details on how to do it. 80% how?
Hi, thanks for the video. I’m after some advise, I have a specialized levo gen 1 fattie bike and the battery only charges to 86%, I changed the battery thinking it was that but have the same problem with the replacement battery? Any ideas how to reset the charger/charge limit?
maybe you could have talked about regen braking?
I guess in some cases if someone is away from home a lot a charged leisure battery in the vehicle could help with re-charging your bikes battery if you can't have the vehicle engine running, just a thought.
I heard that if a Li-Ion battery is allowed to completely discharge it cannot be re-charged. How do you prevent this if you store the battery say, for the winter/
The controller should stop it from being discharged past the point of no return
Winter isn't excuse for not riding. (icy road even has super low rolling resistance)
Anyway healthy battery stored properly (cool room temperature) doesn't shelf discharge that much over one winter.
How about the flyon haibike battery any update because 630 wh is not enough for this giant motore? Expect to Respons
Medium to long term, would the battery be better left on the bike or removed?
Probably removed, IMO. And check every month or so to manage static discharge. Try, as mentioned here, to keep storage capacity at 40-60%.
What about solar charging the battery? While riding the bike and while its static?
Solar power is weak, the pannel(s) would be too big to even attempt is what I am thinking.
I got my new ebike today and used it immediately for about 30 to 45 minutes. Now I read I needed to charge it for 8 to 12 hours before using it for the first time. Did I just compromise the battery? 😢
If you didn't discharge battery down to low charge level nothing happened.
Around 30% would be still good level.
Below that it starts to push cells into voltage range where chemical reaction starts wearing them and leaving battery into lower state of charge for longer time would be harmfull.
But also high charge/voltage of cells starts different chemical reaction wearing cells.
If you want to maximize life of lithium chemisty batteries you should avoid charging over 80% unless actually needing that longer operating time.
(and longer no use storage ideally at around 50% charge)
Is it better to charge the battery at a fast or slow rate?
Generally charging at a lower rate will prolong battery life. But it depends on the C rating of the battery and its chemistry
I agree with Paul, if possible, charge at slower rate for longevity, but Lithium Ion is still fairly new to me.
Hello mate, i buy new E-bike crussis with samsung 720 Wh battery (li-on) and problem is becase i dont know is good get full emty battery and then charge or min 10% ?? ty
Great Comprehensive & valuable knowledge !!!
I'm new to ebikes and I'm surprised, dont these things come with intelligent trickle chargers? I've been using one for many years on my motorbike. Plug it in and it maintains the battery all by itself.
I am new to ebikes good useful video on batteries. I have a question though, I keep my ebike in my garden shed should i remove my battery and take it in house to avoid those extremes of heat and cold especially in the winter?
Keep your battery in your home. Always charged my battery in the garage. After three years I had to buy a new $675 battery . They told me the battery reached 140 degrees and ruined it. I now bring into my home after every ride. Expensive lesson.
@@jerryschroeder645 thanks for the info Jerry i shall do as you suggest
Can I ride an e-bike right after charging?
The best bike guy thank u I’m form Australia
generally speaking, what's the lifetime of a canyon battery?
Your kitchen work top needs a bead of silicon sealant!
Bakcou sells a cold weather battery warmer accessory!
One Hole cyklus is NOT when from 50 to 100% Its eks. from 0% to 100% 0r 2 times from 50% to 100% Thanks for a Great Channel with a LOT off Good stuff... Kim Denmark.
Excellent video, i would like to add: Never put lithium batteries in a landfill! They start fires. Many waste truck drivers or rubbish tip operators have had to risk life and limb putting these fires out! Lithium is likely to burst into flames at temperatures as low as 80 degrees Celsius. So power tool batteries included take them to the DIY store for recycling.
0:31. Wow, only half a minute in and he already has his head buried up his back side. A 50% to 100% charge cycle **IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL LIKE** a 0% to 100% charge cycle. Let's say you can do 1k cycles of 0% to 100% before you degrade your battery to 80% of its original capacity, then your battery could probably do 10k to 100k cycles if you kept it in the 50% to 100% range. The deeper you go past a 50% discharge, the more wear you put on your battery, and that last 20% to 25% is SUPER stressful for it, if you NEVER drop below a 25% charge, you'd probably 5x your battery life. Also, the amount of time your battery spends in a deep discharged state also impacts battery life. So don't discharge your batteries and then leave them like that. Also, batteries prefer to be stored at about an ~80% charge.
Wait, did you say to not charge the battery right after a ride?
Ideal battery temperature for charging is about room temperature.
And if riding in cold environment (especialyl freezing) battery might be below that and again in hot weather battery might be really hot after the ride.
Appreciate your excellent overview
My battery got stuck in the frame. it won't open and when I turn the key to try to open the battery there is no resistance like it should be.
And another thing to note is that at the top of the battery on the right side there is a little gap between the battery and the frame, like if it is not completely clicked in the frame.
Any suggestions/solutions? I would appreciate it.
Thanks for this and your other videos - I've been watching them religiously. I have a question. I just bought an emtb and the bike store owner told me to completely discharge the battery and completely charge it for the first 4 or so cycles. Is this a good thing to do? Bad? Or does it not make much difference? Any help appreciated. Thanks man.
Hi Peter. The full charge/discharge ideology was for the old nickel cadmium batteries. Lithium ion (which your bike undoubtably is) does not require that. It’s a common misconception.
@@mattsheldon9732 Thanks for getting back to me Matt. Good to know.
Really helpful and informative video. Thanks.
I'm very new to ebikes. If you have 10 seconds I have a quick question
sir; if someone was running 2 hub motors and their combined max current
from the controllers was 60 amps, and you used a battery with 50amp BMS
(52v 20ah), what would happen? If you ran WOT you may trip the BMS of
the battery and it come back on after a few seconds? Or something worse?
Thank you!
Best battery vid thanks
What you do if Dealer don’t sell Brand of Ebike I got
Get it from another dealer... or online from manufacture website.
@@FloNFC me OK for batteries got 2 got 2nd from Germany lot cheaper
Florian N external Haibike Yamaha batteries here in UK are £690 & £830 in Germany it £501 & £542 for 400ah & 500ah Batteries
@@paulhusky580bts Good to know, I will search one for my KTM also. :)) Thanks!
@@FloNFC Look them up ELEKTROFAHRRAD24 got Ebike batteries
How can you tell when your battery is 60% charged for storage ?
Hey guys keep up the great work! I have a challenge for you. I have an ebike but I don’t have a stand. So when it comes to lubing my chain it’s difficult because as you know you can’t peddle backwards, I don’t have holes in my chain ring to use a tool to block it, and a stick just doesn’t work for me. So, can you think of a more professional way to solve what is, I know, a common problem.
I saw a video (think it was on Rob rides channel - possibly an emtb maintenance video) where he put a long allen key into the bolt and rotated the crank back to engage with it enabling the chain to be rotated backwards.
LONDON501 Hi thanks I’ve seen that but I don’t have bolt holes in my chain ring so that hack is no use to me.
You can buy a bike stand which holds your bike by the rear triangle which allows you to turn the pedals and clean and lube the chain. I have bought one for about £7-10 from eBay and use it to stand and lube the bike away from home.
Use a shed door frame or garden gate. Open the door or gate, put a broom stick across with nails/hooks to hang it, on each side of the door frame. Set the height to hook under the front of the bike saddle. With the brrom across the doorway, It will hold your back wheel off the ground with the front wheel on the ground.
Do some ebikes really have lead based technology and nimh? Surely not
Is it right to have 30 seconds of info in-between loads of adverts. Painful
Hi Ian, these mid-roll ad breaks were auto placed, we have removed them as it's a short video. Like many other UA-cam channels, these Ads play an important role in helping support this whilst keeping everything free to watch.
Yeah they must be making a fortune!
@@embn I use ad-blocker on my laptop, friends I know use chromecast has mid breaks that really shit me off, to me CC is a bunch of shit, if I like a YT clip, I download it to the PC, then dub it to a SATA HDD to play via my DVR and CRT TV, no buffering and freeze up BS
There should be a way to discharge the battery for storage, i have fully charge my bike, but the next 12 days i cant ride because of rain, but bike keep fully charge.
Hello from the midwest USA! This a great and timely video post for me right now, as I was just wondering and trying to research the topic. Do you happen to know if the Haibike Yamaha batteries account for the partial charges in the same manner? Also, is this info stored within the BMS and available to the owner to see on the display unit on the handlebars? Thanks for all you're doing with the content you put out.
That bit was complete twaddle. A full charge cycle is always 0 to 100% on li ion packs (which every mainstream brand uses, they are the same chemistry as used in electric cars). Any manufacturer that counts a charge cycle as every time you plug in is simply trying to pull a fast one art warranty returns. I guess your only defence is to check the small print before you buy.
I think all the battery tips (including smartphones) should be part of battery firmware. It must have different modes and one of them is "safe" or "long live" mode. I'm always asking myself why it is still not implemented.
Great video Some good tips 👌
Great video with alot of good information.
if you want to keep your iPhone battery in perfect condition you should charge it at 40% and stop charging it at 80% this is the ideal range i have an iPhone 8 Plus 256gb that`s about 3 years old and still have 96% battery keeping to these rules Ive never fully de charged it though which they say i should do every few cycles on my NCM Moscow 48v.
Great eBike for Beginner
What about discussing what temperatures you can safely use ebikes in? How cold is too cold? It is minus 25°C here right now. Should I avoid riding when it get that cold?
Yes -25 C is too cold. My 2021 battery has advise on the case not to use below -10 C.
the best channel
That was really helpful. Lot of good advice. Thank you.
Speaking of "thumbs up" - I know it was over a year ago, but do you remember what put your finger into that honking big bandage?
This is why I'm getting batteries without the fancy case, just the battery with the electronics that I can stick in a bike bag. When it comes to replace it, I won't be spending as much. Just but a new battery and stick it in that bag on my frame.
But also really cause I'm poor and on a time limit to get this done, so have to get the best specs I can at the cheapest I can get them ;~;
Problem with 80% charge is 80% ride distance....that would totally suck. I have 13 amp hour(624WH) and with mid level assist I can cover up to 110km. If I had a 900WH battery, would I want to treat it like a 700?
Imagine buying a car with a 100 litre gas tank but it is recommended you only fill to 80. Having a larger heavier much more expensive high capacity battery, only to use like a much lower capacity battery does not compute.
Hopefully R&D with get us further along. Over all still love my eMTB, over 8000KM in 2 years. Battery IS degraded, but I can still get some good rides in. Looking into a new one, and keeping the old for known shorter rides, or as a back up on a real long ride. - Cheers