I can't speak for anyone else but when I first heard of persona i thought that shin megami tensi was simply the original Japanese title not the translation and shin megami tensi being Essentially nonsense to most English speakers meant changing it to persona. Of course I corrected this like 15 minutes later when I googled it but it's not that far fetched
I believed this for quite a good few years when my only exposure to MegaTen was Two Best Friends Play Persona 4. I wouldn't realize my mistake until Did You Know Gaming did a video on Shin Megami Tensei.
They don't just strive to be very different rpgs they also succeed in it. Honestly everyone who is pissed that smt is not like persona and vice versa didn't looked into what they are buying. Another thing that pisses me off is the constant war among persona and smt fans, i love both games very much and encourage people to try everything out these franchises have to offer, what you will find are almost exclusively brilliant and unique games across the board since day 1.
I think the "war" you're describing is manifesting itself more due to people talking about it on forums and UA-cam comments. If things get more quiet you'll realize a vast minority of dweebs are actually vocal about their preference of one series over the other.
Yeah, that war is stupid. Like, the entire megaten franchise is about gameplay diversity. You want a slow turn based RPG with heavy turn management? Play SMT 3, 4, Apocalypse and 5 You want a game with a more social simulation focused gameplay and fast turn based battles? Play Persona 3, 4 and 5 You want dungeon crawling? Play Persona Q, Q2, Strange Journey, SMT 1, SMT 2, SMT If or Persona 2 You want a more tactical game where having the right demon in the right position to defeat your enemies? Play Persona 1 or Devil Survivor You want an action game? Play Raidou Kuzunoha or Makken X
Persona isn’t even the only game series that has done that when branching out from MegaTen. It’s the most extreme example, sure, but every game series that has branched out from SMT is unique in their own right. Devil Summoner has a focus on time, whether it’s the first half being about a cyberpunk future or the action RPG Raidou games being about Tradition vs New Morals/technology. The Digital Devil Saga games which have a focus on Hindu mythology and play like a more traditional RPG. Each series that branched out of MegTen is supposed to be different, either through gameplay, themes, story, or all three. Otherwise, why even branch out in the first place?
The genuine truth is that they're NOT actually that different, whether mechanically or thematically. ALL these games touch on similar religious and philosophical subject matter and content, and attempting to classify SMT as just "DARK" and Persona as "POWER OF FRIENDSHIP" is baseless and reductive. Both, as well as many other MegaTen spinoff projects still hearken to the overarching franchise theme of examining the relationship between science and superstition, modernity and mysticism, and technology with tradition. Anyone still trying to pit the two franchises together is stuck in fanwars of decades past, anyone with a brain is able to recognize the significant overlap they have.
I used to be a "Typical Persona 5 fan" Then I played the games Then I played Mainline And I loved it How I got there was putting myself in the headspace of "I'm going to judge this for what it is rather than what I want or prefer it to be" SMT isnt and hopefully never will be Persona, and that's a good thing. Try both, but enjoy what you enjoy
Same here. I was a persona fan at first and I got introduced to the mainline SMT series. Didn't really know exactly what it was so I gave a few a shot. I realized that I'm not a huge fan of the first person dungeon-crawler games like SMT 1, Strange Journey, etc. but I did quite enjoy Nocturne and SMT V. I wouldn't have been able to start liking these series if I was gatekept. And sure, I asked stupid questions that came naturally to SMT veterans but I just don't see the point in gatekeeping something you like, you should want more people to start liking what you like.
The problem with mainline is that the alignment is obsolete and that the characters are less characters The demons are more likeable than the humans but apart from that I enjoy weird dungeons and despise anything like Tartarus a mystery dungeon that is monotonous I prefer mementos because you can traverse it faster
Nah, gate keeping is the way to go. Too late to gate keep persona. Persona community use to be good until a massive wave of normies ruined it with their weird propaganda and comments.
“Gatekeeping sucks and there’s no reason to do it!” Tell that to any elitist of any franchise and you’ll probably be laughed at, wedgee’d, and kicked down a flight of stairs.
to be honest there are idiots out there makes dumb takes that isn't even about the game the are talking and make mistakes on what the game their playing is about. I believe gatekeeping is necessary for the more toxic outsiders who need to be called out.
And those who have seen IN NAME ONLY "fanfics" in action. When they use the names, but it otherwise has 0% relation to the source. Not even a flanderization.
another claim I hate is "classic Persona is SMT-lite" it never made sense to me and always seemed like modern fans who haven't actually played them saying that because they don't have life sim stuff
Weirdly enough I loved persona 2's story but didn't like the gameplay? Idk fusing personas felt awkward to the point where I didn't do it much and all the attacks felt like they took way too long. Still loved the story but I never beat it due to the gameplay feeling sluggish and more tedious to me compared to other personas.
Classic Persona and mainline SMT are very different. Sure they're more similar than new Persona but some people forget how different those games really are.
@@whawhawhawhaaaa yeah ever since SMT if... It was never about ideological wars like mainline but rather more personal reasons (since Hazama being bullied was the catalist for the events of that game)
Though SMT if... Does count as mainline gameplay wise, story wise (the little there is) was always meant to be different and separate from the rest, which then lead to Devil Summoner and obviously, Persona
I instantly tuned out conversations about SMT V when the person I was talking to made a Persona comparison. I grew up with both so I knew what to expect going in, and as far as that goes, SMT V was a great mainline entry. Persona isn't a mainline entry, and that fact seems to elude a lot of fans...don't get me wrong, Persona is still great.
The thing I like about persona and SMT is that although they are very different on the surface, you can tell they were made by the same people and share a very similar feeling at their core. While SMT can be more “dark,” you can still see that sense of humor and casualty with some of the interactions between demons and other people. While persona can definitely be more light and casual, it can still carry that heavy atmosphere of SMT with the music and settings. I love both series equally I never can understand why people can’t just respect others who like and dislike either of the series.
I first played persona 5 and then played simultaneously Persona 4 and nocturne and both games I loved, but nocturne made me really think about how I wanted my world to be, I got so amazed by the themes and storytelling that I got in love with mainline smt
My friend showed me Nocturne a long time ago and I wanted to try it out. He recommended me to try Persona 3 FES since at the time it was coming out and was the updated version of P3 so I tried it. Fell in love with Persona 3 and then I moved on to Nocturne once I got my own copy. The small differences were there, but I still loved and enjoyed it for what it was and it took me to one of my favorite games, Digital Devil Saga in which in my opinion, had both great game play and story. I agree that they are different kinds of RPGs with one focusing on story and the other with game play which is something for anyone to enjoy! (also please play digital devil saga if someone in the comments haven't yet!)
DDS1 and 2 are masterpieces imho. I started with P3 FES as you did, and even though I adored that game, those 2 I mentioned before take the crown. Hope they get a proper remaster so that more people get to experience them :p
I enjoyed watching Persona 5 being played, and heard SMT was good so I gave it a shot. I bounced off of it because I couldn't get a hook to keep playing. I'm not the biggest rpg fan but I wanted to at least try it. I think it's the flair in Persona that people like, and I think the new Soul Hackers might have that. Just another opinion.
Something I've said to explain the difference is that Persona is to SMT like Kingdom Hearts is to Final Fantasy. It's not the most accurate statement, but it gets the surface level idea across. You got semi linked series with some basic shared elements, Persona has Jack Frost and KH has Cloud, but past that they are very different games with very different intentions in design and philosophy
This is a really nice video that expresses my feelings on the subject pretty well. A lot of the time, persona fans and smt fans feel like enemies that love to battle over stupid stuff. As someone who's played both SMT and Persona and still slightly prefers persona, it's nice to hear someone go for a neutral take that both series have positives and negatives in gameplay and fanbases instead of bashing one side.
Oh boy that IGN article drama was really annoying all the way around. The article was really bad with the call out towards the smt community and the constant comparisons to persona 5. However all that harassment she got that wasn't on the article was really uncalled for.
Yes, thank you. As someone who likes both but prefers Persona, I've been preaching this for so long. Persona and SMT are very different and that's a good thing. Although, I haven't seen much gatekeeping. I've actually seen it the exact opposite, where SMT fans berate Persona fans for daring to be interested in the "inferior" series and to "go play a real shen megoomi tensay game".
For me, the themes present in smt and persona are interesting enough for me to want to play them regardless of how difficult they are for me. I have interests in folklore, psychology, and philosophy and both series tackle either psychology or philosophy with folklore tying them together with the demons. I haven’t finished any of the games yet (despite being interested in them for 4 years oops) but I’ve consumed enough content about them that I definitely call myself a fan? (Idc about spoilers bc if they’re going to ruin a game for me, the game wasn’t for me anyways) Ig I don’t really have a point in writing this dhdhdhf But I definitely don’t understand why people would gatekeep them I’d rather have more people to talk to about niche video games?? Why scare them away like that sjdjdh
I personally really like Smt games been focused more on exploration and these more esoteric, symbolic storyline, really helped them differentiate from the persona series. If anything, I feel like smt v maybe didn't distant itself enough from Persona in the beginning, because of the high school setting at first and teen protagonists leading many newcomers to think it would be comparable with Persona. Smt 4's samurais and the Sci fi setting of Strange journey did a better job distancing themselves from the other series, and take advantage of smt's greater freedom for storytelling
I ended up buying SMT V because I really liked P4G and P5R when I played both in 2020. I ended up really liking SMT V as well, although, I will say, I don't really want to go back and try the older titles. My favorite thing about SMT V were the sprawling environments and locations, the ruined city was truly amazing to see. I've heard the other games focus a lot more on dungeon crawling, which were my least favorite moments in all of SMT V.
as someone that did start from persona 4 to smt 4. it took me like a year to fully appreciate the game. weirdly enough I was trippin on acid and I just had the urge to beat the game since I got the white ending. I was blown away and wanted more philosophical stories.
as someone who just found SMTV due to the recent release of vengeance i have to say, it is pretty damn nice how different yet how similar they feel. combat too. one is for the story focused people and one is for the combat focused people but *both* games provide those experiences, just at a different ratio it's genius honestly and i really hope that this means SMT6 will happen after P6. and then we have metaphor coming. i found this company at a good time 😆
You’re incredibly right. I started with Persona 3 and Persona 5, and while I loved the slice-of-life story and ar style (moreso P5, I thought P3 was just okay), I loved the gameplay and combat just as much. So when I went into mainline with SMT IV, Nocturne, V, and now Strange Journey, I found myself loving it just as much. I think at this point I like more mainline games, but I still enjoy Persona 5 just as much as I did when I first played Megami Tensei games. Great video man! I don’t get why people take video games and whatnot as a personal offense either, hopefully people become more welcoming
I got into megaten in early 2018 after watching Etika play Persona 5, I thought it looked cool so I bought it, I now physically own and have played all of the persona games and the majority of SMT games, if I'm not a real smt fan because I started with persona 5 then I don't know if i wanna be one... Devil Survivor 1, SMT 3 and 4 best games btw, no im not taking questions at this time.
Basing your opinion on if you're a fan of smt or not off of a couple gatekeepers in the smt community is very odd and honestly dumb. You can be a fan of both while not liking the fan base. Like I love star wars, and sometimes enjoy a good marvel movie, but I deeply hate the fan bases to both of them.
I have a friend who tries to defend gatekeeping as defending your hobbies from being destroyed. It just sounds like making an excuse to exclude people they don't like. No one has the authority to destroy a franchise or hobby other than the people actually producing it. Like 343 butchering Halo by making every new game a dumpster fire.
My Favorite SMT related games are Majin Tensei 1&2 It's hard to talk about those cause people barely even know they exist. I love both SMT main line, persona, digital devil saga... But my god the OSTs for Majin Tensei 1&2 definitely sold me, on top of the fact I adore TTRPG combat. The only ones I've had trouble getting into at all is the Last Bible series 🤷
Honestly, once you're a fair bit into the game, I don't really see much of a difference in difficulty, at least with the recent games. It's just that mechanics like the Turn Press system and Smirk punish you a LOT more than anything in the Persona games. Once you got your elemental damage covered and know the weaknesses of what you're fighting, it's really not any harder than Persona combat.
@@mypc1877 kinda reminds me of people complaining about how easy the new pokemon games are when the earlier ones weren't exactly hard. At least that is the vibe I get from it. I have only been able to play persona 5 and strikers so far due to technology and time restrictions. So I have no real idea on how accurate that comparison is.
I got into the Megaten games because of UA-cam. Years ago I watched a let’s play of P4G, when I had no means to play games, and at the start of the pandemic I hacked my 3DS and got into the series. These games revolutionized how I thought about my favorite genre in RPGs. I started with SMT IV and since then I have beaten SMT III HD, SMT IV, SMT IVA, SMT V, P3FES, P4G, P5, and I’m currently playing Soul Hackers. When I’m in the mood for a tough as nails RPG I’ll pop in an SMT. When I want to sit back, relax, and talk about the characters and story beats with my wife I’ll play Persona. I feel that loads of people are too toxic about these series in general. The overall SMT play a real Megaten, or the Persona port begging and waifu conflicts. I just want to play good games and everyone can feel free to play what they like. Just don’t spoil other people’s fun because you prefer one over the other.
So in terms of gameplay, it’s similar but instead of using demons as a Persona to increase your stats, they’re party members and it’s kinda like Pokémon?
Loved this vid! I feel that the distinction between gatekeeping and fair criticism was something that really needed to be brought to the community’s attention. As for topics to cover next, I’d like to hear you talk about which megaten games (including persona) you think most deserve a remake/remaster and why. I mean, the correct answer is DDS 1 & 2 but still
I agree that the last three Persona games are much easier then mainline SMT. Though the first 2(technically 3) are not as easy....especially the Snow Queen route in the first one.
P1 and P2IS are actually incredibly easy, even more than 3 and 4, people just don't know what exactly about them is broken. In P1, Nuclear skills deal an insane amount of damage. In P2IS, TEC-based Fusion Spells deal an insane amount of damage. The only reason anyone finds SQQ hard is probably because everyone tries to go for Thanatos Tower first to get all 5 Ultimate Persona totems. Which honestly doesn't seem sensible to me, since most of the Ultimates are kinda trash and aren't even necessary. The only one of the classic trilogy I'd even say is "hard" is P2EP, but using buffs is pretty much one of the easiest and best things you can do to win a fight.
@@everettwatsonrazorearcwolf6553 I'm not even talking about PSP IS, I played PS1 IS and while it isn't as baby easy as PSP, it's still easier than EP aside from maybe the final boss Also: P1 PSP didn't nerf the enemies, some enemies had some minor stat changes but most of them aren't nerfs, not to mention buffs, Tetrakarn, and Makarakarn were nerfed on P1 PSP
The people you are talking about in this video are just like the douchebags who are terrorizing Allegra Clark over being cast as Mitsuru in P3 Remake and accusing her of being trans when she isn't.
i started with persoma 3 a couple years and i told myself i probably wouldnt like smt cause its too serious. i finally tried out smt 5 when it came out and loved it and now im 65 hours into smt4. i really love the themes and the unique atmosphere in each, cant wait to play the other games in this series. both persona and smt are amazing in their own ways
Great video agree with all your points. I also think that these unfair criticisms coming from persona fans trying out mainline for the first time puts off people from mainline for the wrong reasons. I've seen critiques saying the story is straight up bad (not just different), or that the combat is bad because its harder and these critiques must be putting off persona fans or even fans of neither from trying out the series. I think a really bad critique ive heard of smt is yahtzee's zero punctuation on smt v, and his videos get millions of views (more than mainline even sells)
@@athorem and praise of v's story comes from a wide range of people too. Its a divisive aspect and story is a very subjective thing. I think Vs story is either you love it or hate it and its easily 50/50 on that, but negative opinions are always just shared more. I could write for ages about why I love Vs story and many other people could too while criticisms usually dont look deep enough into it.
@@louish5068 From what I see it's usually people like it or they're indifferent to it, you're one of the very few who I see praise the story, even fewer use the word 'love'. There are a lot of positive reviews for this game, but the vast majority of them either gloss over the story or criticize it
That feeling I get when ignorant people think Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth is like Persona. The artist is the same guy that did Devil Survivor’s art, for Christ sake.
The one thing I would add is that while the Persona games are easy compared to the mainline Shin Megami Tensei series, they're fairly difficult compared to, say, most Final Fantasy or dragon quest games.
SMT Nocturne was my second SMT game whereas Persona 5 Royal was my first, and I wasn't disappointed by Nocturne at all. It's hard as hell, but I still love it. While I have not started hating P5R, I can understand the frustration so many mainline SMT fans are feeling, because any and all publications never give SMT recognition for anything other than Persona in the same way they never give Capcom recognition for anything other than Resident Evil and Street Fighter. But that's not to say that those who prefer mainline SMT Persona are anywhere near perfect, as they are very picky about mainline SMT games also such as calling the original Megami Tensei on the Famicom "mid" for no good reason whatsoever. And because of how Persona 5 is hogging the spotlight from other SMT games, I am fearful it will start to end up like Street Fighter II, and not in a good way.
Relative to a lot of JRPG, RPGs, and Video Games, Persona deals with a lot of dark subject matter that's very real in peoples actual lives, but it given a lot of space to breathe, ultimately making it approch ke and not just a pure downer. Something like Mainline is primarily about dark subject matter, and feels no obligation to give you any room to breathe. In other words Persona is pretty dark, but it might not seem that way when contrasted with SMT, which is definitely darker
@@spudsbuchlaw kinda what I'm asking. 2 specifically there was little time to breath,light moments. No dating,socializing It was atmospheric the whole ride
@@argoth231 Persona 2 like all other smt games of the time were based on late 90s anime like EVA, Cowboy Bebop, Gundam Wing, and Trigun when it came to their tone as that's what was popular at the time. occult and slice of life became more popular in the 00s hence why mainline dropped the cyberpunk and went all in on the occult and persona became a slice of life Sim similar in tone to many of the popular shows of the time. this is why soul hackers 2 looks nothing like SH1 as it's not 1996 any more and what was popular cyberpunk back then isn't what's popular now -_- Persona 2's dark tone is a product of its time as it was inspired by all the apocalypse themed and noire anime that were airing at the time of its development
Even though the series are mostly different and have somewhat similarities with demons. I like to think about the Shin Megami Tensei If and it’s connection to persona and how persona has bloomed.
they are sibling series similar to Fire Emblem and Advance wars or Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts they share similar concepts but use them in very different ways. In SMT and Persona case SMT is gameplay focused, Persona is Character focused
I think for fans that started out with Persona.. maybe a more transitional approach to the rest of the SMT franchise may help with the experience and in understanding what both game franchide try to convey... I'll take myself as an example for instance my first tittle was Persona 3 and then Persona 3 FES, and it obviously left me hooked, craving another gane that game similar experiences I came upon DDS, while keeping the more apocalyptic setting while maintaining focus still on the characters (which now I see as a perfect combo of main SMT and Persona) and then moving onto Nocturne, and subsequently falling more in love and with main SMT
I played both SMTV and persona 5. Although ppl compare the games they're not wrong about SMTV being inferior to Persona 5. SMTV was challenging, but it did not have a good story or characters on its own merit. It was a mess tbh. It's true, it really didn't have heart.
Agreed. That's the issue with the fans trying to shut down Persona comparisons. We've gotten to the point where SMT fans will say the opinion that P5 > SMT V is invalid because "noo you can't compare the two", but then they'll quietly accept it when someone says SMT V > P5. It's just shielding the game from legitimate criticism. If SMT V was actually a way better game than Persona 5, they wouldn't have to shut down the comparisons between the two.
I don't blame anyone who compares persona 5 with smt 5, for 1 reason: The marketing for SMT 5 was trying to be persona so hard, that when the game was out, people noticed that they were nothing alike and got angry, I already knew smt was nothing like persona and the trailers made me believe that this time they would ve more similar. The fact that SMT5 had a dogshit story also didn't helped its case, the game marketed its human characters and those didn't appear at all. To me SMT5 is really persona without a heart because atlus tried to sell it as something closer to a persona game than it actually is
Have you ever done a challenge run video? Not a stream, but like a nicely edited hour or so long video like nyarly. Your presentation style is much better in my opinion, you should have numbers like his.
Persona focuses on characters and storytelling. Mainline SMT focuses on mechanics and ideologies. In persona, the idea that you HAVE the power to change the world thought your actions and values is always present. In SMT, your personal struggles and actions are irrelevant in the majour context of the world events unfolding before your eyes up until the end, where most is already lost or decided. I absolutely ADORE both approaches and I hope there will be many many entries from both series in the future. :)
I like both series but for different reason. The character elements of SMT aren’t usually the highlight as much as the turn based combat isn’t the highlight of persona. Persona makes it so you want the current dungeon to be over so you can get to the next story beat while I’m often irritated by story in SMT and just want to be back fusing demons and fighting.
SMT actually has a story and lore deeper than persona's. It just uses the surroundings to tell a big chunk of story instead of textboxes and cutscenes.
I remember I hated Strange Journey the first time I played it because I was expecting a Turn Management Focused Gameplay similar to Nocturne, Persona or Devil Survivor. I had to give it a second chance and ended up liking it as a Dungeon Crawling game with more focus on Demons and Items management (still a bit too grindy for my liking)
I actually found persona 4 golden really difficult since I was really underlevelled and when I got to shadow yukiko I had to play on very easy for the next few dungeons since I was about level 7 at shadow yukiko.
atlus literally makes both games so idk what the issue even is lmao i've played both series and love them both but there are very obvious similarities and differences. "social links"(or npc affection) and the very same looking monsters and monster abilities/weaknesses are a big similarity.
@@mateusgreenwood1096 stop being a childish idiot. i said social links and the very obvious same looking monsters are the big similarity's. i understand nuance is hard for a small brain to understand, but at least try.
Persona 3 Portable was my first Persona/SMT related game. I only found out about it from XPlay review, and lesser UA-cam channel reviews back in the day. Went on to try it, beat it and it was my new favorite game for a while. I didn’t know what “Shin Megami Tensei” even meant, but I did figure it was the Japanese name for the Persona series. Eventually I realized what it meant, went on to beat P4G, P5R, SMT3 HD, SMT4, SMT4 A, SMTV, SMT DDS, SMT DDS 2, went on to play Soul Hackers 1, Devil Survivor 3DS 1&2. Am going to buy Soul Hackers 2. Even finally bought/played TMS FE Enchore Switch version. The Persona vs SMT arguments are stupid. Why limit yourself to one or the other? They both have their ups and downs. Yeah, it sucks that SMT can be lacking storywise, but often times Persona can have too much story and too much life sim. crap.
I may have not gotten around to trying smt (blame pokemon for that one 🤣) but even I know that comparing smt to persona is like comparing persona to Pokémon… completely different franchises that although have some small similarities with mechanics (typing in Pokémon is the same as the whole weekness thing without the knock downs, just gotta remember which is which) but other than the very basics that link a lot of jrpg’s there approach’s and even topics covered a drastically different. For example the last main line Pokémon was essentially the fossil fuels issue translated into a Pokémon story, where as 5 tackles an hell of alot of societal issues with a focus on Japans cultural impact on how those issues come to be (it’s actually fascinating if you wanna research into that stuff) about as polar opposite as you can get and that’s just themes alone. I assume the same goes for smt v persona.
I’m terrified by how incredibly HARDCORE SMT games must be if Persona games are considered “more casual.” Holy fucking shit, there’s so much to do in those games and so many things to juggle and I often forget things that wind up being important side activities to complete if you want to be strong enough for a boss and they just totally make my Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest experiences seem simplistic. But god DAMN, that has to mean those are ALSO more casual-centric game franchises! So… Playing SMT must be like trying to run a fucking tabletop RPG.
I don't really agree with Persona being different from SMT. It's literally part of it. Yes, it's focused on dating sim elements more than anything, but as far as RPG battle mechanics go, they're the same games. Personas and Demons are functionally the same.
you can make this video basically every year and it will still be relevant unfortunately not being a dick is really difficult when thats what alot of people characterize themselves as.
As a person who started by playing p3p and just loved the dungeon crawling ,the moment they Let me Advance in that tower i Made It as far as i could and the go down all the way back to floor 1 and go up again in a single night ,then i played smt 1 and i loved it
I remember getting into arguments with some people over the IGN article. They basically didn't see the difference between the ones calling out the bad review and those being assholes like calling her names. I showed them examples of people just saying why she is wrong and they were like she is getting gaslighted when she agreed that one of her takes were bad...
I recently got into persona and am working my way back to the original trilogy to try and get into mainline smt. Consider the fact that I like the dungeon crawling and demon fusing the most I'd say I'm on the right track.
The way I got into smt as a persona fan was first playing both versions of 4 (apocalypse being easier, and a little more persona like) and then playing strange journey. After that the other games aren't too hard although I haven't gotten the chance to play nocturne, and have been told it's harder.
i tried both smt V and p V, and tbh the social aspect of persona wasnt my cup of tea :c but the ominous- dark and existentialism of SMT V grabed me by the balls and took me to a journey ill never forget, im used to jrpgs being about charecters, this one was about religion, philosophies, culture and politics, and it was so cool B) maybe ill try PV and like it at some point? maybe~ at the moment, i prefer the tough creepy atmospheric dungeon crawler
I recommend SMT to my sister who's been interested in persona as I wasn't aware of all the differences, I will be correcting this mistake, I will also go on record to say I've not played persona
I wouldn't say the series are totally different as many people do. I'd say it's *significantly* different. There are lots of similarities, but the differences? They're quite significant and worth exploring. But that doesn't mean they're apples and oranges.
"People thought that Shin Megami Tensei was the Japanese title for The Persona Series" Me who has never played a persona (but interested) game but a bit of Soul Hackers: Uum...no they are part of the same franchise. Shin Megami Tensei translates to Shin=New Megami = Goddess (?) Tensei = Reincarnation (?) Persona was what the spin off series was also called in Japan. The only assumption I made was that because the SMT subtitle was dropped on Persona 5 title cover, they (Atlus and Sega) realized that the Persona series has just evolved into it's own thing separate from SMT despite any similarities. Veteran fans of either series can and are encouraged to correct me on this presumption.
My thoughts on this: Persona 4 Golden is the best Persona game while SMT V is the best SMT game. And between the two, it is about what the player prefers (for the characters P4G is superior, for the gameplay clearly SMT V). For me, it is SMT V all day every day 24/7/365.
I made the "mistake" of playing SMT first. While persona isnt a bad game, im not really into the whole social thing. Its very bizarre to me as a classic rpg player. I went from SMT vengeance to SMT 3 HD remaster, then finally got around to playing P3 reload, and yeah...its just weird. Im only like level 11 though so hopefully it picks up. Im sort of bored just doing social stuff and running the same dungeon over and over again.
There are many reasons to gatekeep Those who fail to Gatekeep one day Be a gate kept themselves. You shouldn't want your favorites whatever To be blindly consumed by everyone. Because everyone doesn't have the franchise Concern at heart. Look at the amount of people who don't even play persona five That make massive demands In changes to keater to them
I've been a persona fan since p5 came out, since then I've played and completed p5r, p5s, p4g, and p3 fes. Recently I played nocturne for the first time and it was quite good imo, but part of me lacked some sense of satisfaction in completing it. Like, none of the endings I could've gotten didn't really resonate with me at all, and due to the fact that I named all the characters dumb things as a meme, I feel like I just softened any impactful moments for the sake of the funny. I do prefer the persona series over smt at the moment, maybe I'll play another smt game for another comparison at some point, maybe my opinion will become more evenly split if I do?
when i fist got into Megaten I played P4G on Steam and wanted more from Atlus. as I was looking into the community I found certain youtubers gatekeeping and critcizing fans for playing Persona before smt. I also always heard the term *play a real shin megami tensei game* I even showed interest into Nocturne and one Megaten had a knee jerk reaction to what I said and told me to not expect the game to be like Persona. Thankfully I found some other cool megaten youtbers who were supportive of new fans coming in and were encouraging me to play the game. I had fun with Nocturne. I'm glad it worked out but I really do hope the gatekeeping stops with Megaten fans becase if it weren't for the nice ones I probably would have just been another bitter Persona fan and not fuck with the wider megaten community or the games.
I absolutely do not agree with the notion that Persona is casual in terms of difficulty. If we're talking about Persona 3 and 4 then yes the re-releases made them easier, but if we look at them from a perspective of other RPGs for a moment you can see that most RPGs are easier than Persona by a long shot. I wouldn't say Persona is a hardcore series. I would place it in the middle and place SMT in it's own category. SMT is kind of isolated in the sense that it commits RPG sins on the regular and does not care. Things that are not really present during many of the NES or SNES RPGs I've played, but are negatively associated with RPGs, are things I've noticed are in basically every SMT game I've ever played. I also wouldn't say that SMT is necessarily hard most of the time. Sure, on Hard battles can be a bit more ball busting since you're subject to RNG, but I think the main thing keeping me from playing Nocturne wasn't the difficulty but the long stretches of no developments, no direction, and unrelentingly frequent random encounters that make FF3's encounter rate look good by comparison. I'll admit to dropping the game years ago. Maybe it gets harder, but I remember distinctly beating one or two of the more notorious bosses and going "Wait, that's it?"
There's a difference between one person sending you 50.000 message which is harassement and 50.000 people sending you 1 message, harassement this days don't mean anything last time i asked someone "did you really did that ? " and the person responded "stop harassing me " lol it was the only and last time i ever talked to it i just downloaded the P5R for PC i've done P3/P3P and i've always been thinking that SMT was a totally different game it feels hardcore in the customization and gameplay it seem really less forgiving than persona which is more laid back enjoy the story kind of game, good vid' !
who thought that "Shin megami tensei" translated to "persona" ? i need names
To these people's credit, "Biohazard" doesn't exactly translate to "Resident Evil"
I can't speak for anyone else but when I first heard of persona i thought that shin megami tensi was simply the original Japanese title not the translation and shin megami tensi being Essentially nonsense to most English speakers meant changing it to persona. Of course I corrected this like 15 minutes later when I googled it but it's not that far fetched
most sane true goddess reincarnation fan
Persona: Persona. Makes sense lmao.
I believed this for quite a good few years when my only exposure to MegaTen was Two Best Friends Play Persona 4. I wouldn't realize my mistake until Did You Know Gaming did a video on Shin Megami Tensei.
They don't just strive to be very different rpgs they also succeed in it. Honestly everyone who is pissed that smt is not like persona and vice versa didn't looked into what they are buying. Another thing that pisses me off is the constant war among persona and smt fans, i love both games very much and encourage people to try everything out these franchises have to offer, what you will find are almost exclusively brilliant and unique games across the board since day 1.
I think the "war" you're describing is manifesting itself more due to people talking about it on forums and UA-cam comments. If things get more quiet you'll realize a vast minority of dweebs are actually vocal about their preference of one series over the other.
Yeah, that war is stupid. Like, the entire megaten franchise is about gameplay diversity.
You want a slow turn based RPG with heavy turn management? Play SMT 3, 4, Apocalypse and 5
You want a game with a more social simulation focused gameplay and fast turn based battles? Play Persona 3, 4 and 5
You want dungeon crawling? Play Persona Q, Q2, Strange Journey, SMT 1, SMT 2, SMT If or Persona 2
You want a more tactical game where having the right demon in the right position to defeat your enemies? Play Persona 1 or Devil Survivor
You want an action game? Play Raidou Kuzunoha or Makken X
I love both Persona and SMT
I started with Vanilla P5 and then got into SMT a couple years later and absolutely loved it
Persona isn’t even the only game series that has done that when branching out from MegaTen. It’s the most extreme example, sure, but every game series that has branched out from SMT is unique in their own right. Devil Summoner has a focus on time, whether it’s the first half being about a cyberpunk future or the action RPG Raidou games being about Tradition vs New Morals/technology. The Digital Devil Saga games which have a focus on Hindu mythology and play like a more traditional RPG. Each series that branched out of MegTen is supposed to be different, either through gameplay, themes, story, or all three. Otherwise, why even branch out in the first place?
The genuine truth is that they're NOT actually that different, whether mechanically or thematically. ALL these games touch on similar religious and philosophical subject matter and content, and attempting to classify SMT as just "DARK" and Persona as "POWER OF FRIENDSHIP" is baseless and reductive. Both, as well as many other MegaTen spinoff projects still hearken to the overarching franchise theme of examining the relationship between science and superstition, modernity and mysticism, and technology with tradition. Anyone still trying to pit the two franchises together is stuck in fanwars of decades past, anyone with a brain is able to recognize the significant overlap they have.
I used to be a "Typical Persona 5 fan"
Then I played the games
Then I played Mainline
And I loved it
How I got there was putting myself in the headspace of "I'm going to judge this for what it is rather than what I want or prefer it to be"
SMT isnt and hopefully never will be Persona, and that's a good thing. Try both, but enjoy what you enjoy
Me too. Until I played Persona 3 and Nocturne Hd. Now I strive to play as much megaten as possible.
Same here. I was a persona fan at first and I got introduced to the mainline SMT series. Didn't really know exactly what it was so I gave a few a shot. I realized that I'm not a huge fan of the first person dungeon-crawler games like SMT 1, Strange Journey, etc. but I did quite enjoy Nocturne and SMT V. I wouldn't have been able to start liking these series if I was gatekept. And sure, I asked stupid questions that came naturally to SMT veterans but I just don't see the point in gatekeeping something you like, you should want more people to start liking what you like.
Go play Majin Tensei if you get a chance and lemme know what you think.
It's easily some of my favorite games and the osts are fire
The problem with mainline is that the alignment is obsolete and that the characters are less characters
The demons are more likeable than the humans but apart from that I enjoy weird dungeons and despise anything like Tartarus a mystery dungeon that is monotonous I prefer mementos because you can traverse it faster
@@haruhisuzumiya6650 what do you mean by the “alignment is obsolete”? The endings are way more important in smt than persona.
"Don't be a dick" is a lesson some people have a hard time understanding...
SimplyDad maybe counts?
@@lucas1892 Don't watch his channel to know.
Nah, gate keeping is the way to go. Too late to gate keep persona. Persona community use to be good until a massive wave of normies ruined it with their weird propaganda and comments.
The reason is because people justify it in their head that's okay so long as the person is socially unaccepted.
We all know SMT stands for:
S Persona 3
M Persona 4
T Persona 5
Also, the secret name for every numbered SMT game is Persona # Without Heart
Lmao 🤣
You wound me.
Damn your right!
S - Shin
M - Megami
T - Tensei
That's what it means....do this again and i'll use Freikugel + Gaea Rage on you
“Gatekeeping sucks and there’s no reason to do it!”
Tell that to any elitist of any franchise and you’ll probably be laughed at, wedgee’d, and kicked down a flight of stairs.
This is Macca's way of saying he likes to take the chaos route.
@@zg-it liking a reply over the original comment? bro
I love gatekeeping to idiots who only played nocturne hd and think they know how the series is « supposed » to be. Story never mattered🤓
to be honest there are idiots out there makes dumb takes that isn't even about the game the are talking and make mistakes on what the game their playing is about. I believe gatekeeping is necessary for the more toxic outsiders who need to be called out.
And those who have seen IN NAME ONLY "fanfics" in action.
When they use the names, but it otherwise has 0% relation to the source. Not even a flanderization.
I could feel the frustration throughout this vid, I wholeheartedly agree with what you said.
another claim I hate is "classic Persona is SMT-lite" it never made sense to me and always seemed like modern fans who haven't actually played them saying that because they don't have life sim stuff
@@oldman1340 same
Weirdly enough I loved persona 2's story but didn't like the gameplay? Idk fusing personas felt awkward to the point where I didn't do it much and all the attacks felt like they took way too long. Still loved the story but I never beat it due to the gameplay feeling sluggish and more tedious to me compared to other personas.
Classic Persona and mainline SMT are very different. Sure they're more similar than new Persona but some people forget how different those games really are.
@@whawhawhawhaaaa yeah ever since SMT if... It was never about ideological wars like mainline but rather more personal reasons (since Hazama being bullied was the catalist for the events of that game)
Though SMT if... Does count as mainline gameplay wise, story wise (the little there is) was always meant to be different and separate from the rest, which then lead to Devil Summoner and obviously, Persona
I instantly tuned out conversations about SMT V when the person I was talking to made a Persona comparison. I grew up with both so I knew what to expect going in, and as far as that goes, SMT V was a great mainline entry. Persona isn't a mainline entry, and that fact seems to elude a lot of fans...don't get me wrong, Persona is still great.
i just wish smt v had an engaging story that was more than exposition dumps but at least the gameplay is absolutely fire
The thing I like about persona and SMT is that although they are very different on the surface, you can tell they were made by the same people and share a very similar feeling at their core. While SMT can be more “dark,” you can still see that sense of humor and casualty with some of the interactions between demons and other people. While persona can definitely be more light and casual, it can still carry that heavy atmosphere of SMT with the music and settings. I love both series equally I never can understand why people can’t just respect others who like and dislike either of the series.
I keep saying this:
Don't fuck with us MegaMan Fans.
We gatekeep you for liking Mighty Number 9.
Speaking of which, did you know that Inafune just got into NFTs?
@@Hawkatana Yeah, two days ago.
I mean the game wasn't good, but it was at least as if not more fun then x7.
@@bestaround3323 You're not wrong-
I only played starforce dragon on my ds as a kid and the megaman 11 demo and honestly, based franchise, I should play more
I first played persona 5 and then played simultaneously Persona 4 and nocturne and both games I loved, but nocturne made me really think about how I wanted my world to be, I got so amazed by the themes and storytelling that I got in love with mainline smt
My friend showed me Nocturne a long time ago and I wanted to try it out. He recommended me to try Persona 3 FES since at the time it was coming out and was the updated version of P3 so I tried it. Fell in love with Persona 3 and then I moved on to Nocturne once I got my own copy. The small differences were there, but I still loved and enjoyed it for what it was and it took me to one of my favorite games, Digital Devil Saga in which in my opinion, had both great game play and story. I agree that they are different kinds of RPGs with one focusing on story and the other with game play which is something for anyone to enjoy! (also please play digital devil saga if someone in the comments haven't yet!)
DDS1 and 2 are masterpieces imho. I started with P3 FES as you did, and even though I adored that game, those 2 I mentioned before take the crown. Hope they get a proper remaster so that more people get to experience them :p
I enjoyed watching Persona 5 being played, and heard SMT was good so I gave it a shot. I bounced off of it because I couldn't get a hook to keep playing. I'm not the biggest rpg fan but I wanted to at least try it. I think it's the flair in Persona that people like, and I think the new Soul Hackers might have that. Just another opinion.
Something I've said to explain the difference is that Persona is to SMT like Kingdom Hearts is to Final Fantasy. It's not the most accurate statement, but it gets the surface level idea across. You got semi linked series with some basic shared elements, Persona has Jack Frost and KH has Cloud, but past that they are very different games with very different intentions in design and philosophy
As a fan of all 4, I agree with you
@@everettwatsonrazorearcwolf6553 same
This is a really nice video that expresses my feelings on the subject pretty well. A lot of the time, persona fans and smt fans feel like enemies that love to battle over stupid stuff. As someone who's played both SMT and Persona and still slightly prefers persona, it's nice to hear someone go for a neutral take that both series have positives and negatives in gameplay and fanbases instead of bashing one side.
Oh boy that IGN article drama was really annoying all the way around. The article was really bad with the call out towards the smt community and the constant comparisons to persona 5. However all that harassment she got that wasn't on the article was really uncalled for.
ign reviewers aren't real
@@angellara7040 on gawd man.
Yes, thank you. As someone who likes both but prefers Persona, I've been preaching this for so long. Persona and SMT are very different and that's a good thing.
Although, I haven't seen much gatekeeping. I've actually seen it the exact opposite, where SMT fans berate Persona fans for daring to be interested in the "inferior" series and to "go play a real shen megoomi tensay game".
Thats exactly what puts some persona fans off and is a kind of gatekeeping.
Everytime i hear the comparison i just think about the SMT V IGN review.
For me, the themes present in smt and persona are interesting enough for me to want to play them regardless of how difficult they are for me.
I have interests in folklore, psychology, and philosophy and both series tackle either psychology or philosophy with folklore tying them together with the demons.
I haven’t finished any of the games yet (despite being interested in them for 4 years oops) but I’ve consumed enough content about them that I definitely call myself a fan? (Idc about spoilers bc if they’re going to ruin a game for me, the game wasn’t for me anyways)
Ig I don’t really have a point in writing this dhdhdhf
But I definitely don’t understand why people would gatekeep them
I’d rather have more people to talk to about niche video games?? Why scare them away like that sjdjdh
Based take about spoilers
I personally really like Smt games been focused more on exploration and these more esoteric, symbolic storyline, really helped them differentiate from the persona series. If anything, I feel like smt v maybe didn't distant itself enough from Persona in the beginning, because of the high school setting at first and teen protagonists leading many newcomers to think it would be comparable with Persona. Smt 4's samurais and the Sci fi setting of Strange journey did a better job distancing themselves from the other series, and take advantage of smt's greater freedom for storytelling
I ended up buying SMT V because I really liked P4G and P5R when I played both in 2020. I ended up really liking SMT V as well, although, I will say, I don't really want to go back and try the older titles. My favorite thing about SMT V were the sprawling environments and locations, the ruined city was truly amazing to see. I've heard the other games focus a lot more on dungeon crawling, which were my least favorite moments in all of SMT V.
i see you on coneys videos sometimes, good to know you like megaten too!
@@christinablixthenningsson3529 I'm not even that big of an JRPG guy, Atlus games just hit different.
@@averypatrick5279Catherine is so good.
as someone that did start from persona 4 to smt 4. it took me like a year to fully appreciate the game.
weirdly enough I was trippin on acid and I just had the urge to beat the game since I got the white ending. I was blown away and wanted more philosophical stories.
as someone who just found SMTV due to the recent release of vengeance i have to say, it is pretty damn nice how different yet how similar they feel. combat too. one is for the story focused people and one is for the combat focused people but *both* games provide those experiences, just at a different ratio
it's genius honestly and i really hope that this means SMT6 will happen after P6. and then we have metaphor coming. i found this company at a good time 😆
You’re incredibly right. I started with Persona 3 and Persona 5, and while I loved the slice-of-life story and ar style (moreso P5, I thought P3 was just okay), I loved the gameplay and combat just as much. So when I went into mainline with SMT IV, Nocturne, V, and now Strange Journey, I found myself loving it just as much. I think at this point I like more mainline games, but I still enjoy Persona 5 just as much as I did when I first played Megami Tensei games.
Great video man! I don’t get why people take video games and whatnot as a personal offense either, hopefully people become more welcoming
I got into megaten in early 2018 after watching Etika play Persona 5, I thought it looked cool so I bought it, I now physically own and have played all of the persona games and the majority of SMT games, if I'm not a real smt fan because I started with persona 5 then I don't know if i wanna be one...
Devil Survivor 1, SMT 3 and 4 best games btw, no im not taking questions at this time.
Basing your opinion on if you're a fan of smt or not off of a couple gatekeepers in the smt community is very odd and honestly dumb. You can be a fan of both while not liking the fan base. Like I love star wars, and sometimes enjoy a good marvel movie, but I deeply hate the fan bases to both of them.
the fact you had to make this video is wild
I have a friend who tries to defend gatekeeping as defending your hobbies from being destroyed. It just sounds like making an excuse to exclude people they don't like. No one has the authority to destroy a franchise or hobby other than the people actually producing it. Like 343 butchering Halo by making every new game a dumpster fire.
I used to know a guy like that too. Gatekeeping is stupid, and people who gatekeep can fuck off.
My Favorite SMT related games are Majin Tensei 1&2
It's hard to talk about those cause people barely even know they exist.
I love both SMT main line, persona, digital devil saga...
But my god the OSTs for Majin Tensei 1&2 definitely sold me, on top of the fact I adore TTRPG combat.
The only ones I've had trouble getting into at all is the Last Bible series 🤷
Honestly, once you're a fair bit into the game, I don't really see much of a difference in difficulty, at least with the recent games.
It's just that mechanics like the Turn Press system and Smirk punish you a LOT more than anything in the Persona games.
Once you got your elemental damage covered and know the weaknesses of what you're fighting, it's really not any harder than Persona combat.
To be fair, the older mainline games weren't that hard to begin with.
@@mypc1877 kinda reminds me of people complaining about how easy the new pokemon games are when the earlier ones weren't exactly hard. At least that is the vibe I get from it. I have only been able to play persona 5 and strikers so far due to technology and time restrictions. So I have no real idea on how accurate that comparison is.
I got into the Megaten games because of UA-cam. Years ago I watched a let’s play of P4G, when I had no means to play games, and at the start of the pandemic I hacked my 3DS and got into the series. These games revolutionized how I thought about my favorite genre in RPGs. I started with SMT IV and since then I have beaten SMT III HD, SMT IV, SMT IVA, SMT V, P3FES, P4G, P5, and I’m currently playing Soul Hackers.
When I’m in the mood for a tough as nails RPG I’ll pop in an SMT. When I want to sit back, relax, and talk about the characters and story beats with my wife I’ll play Persona.
I feel that loads of people are too toxic about these series in general. The overall SMT play a real Megaten, or the Persona port begging and waifu conflicts. I just want to play good games and everyone can feel free to play what they like. Just don’t spoil other people’s fun because you prefer one over the other.
So in terms of gameplay, it’s similar but instead of using demons as a Persona to increase your stats, they’re party members and it’s kinda like Pokémon?
Loved this vid! I feel that the distinction between gatekeeping and fair criticism was something that really needed to be brought to the community’s attention. As for topics to cover next, I’d like to hear you talk about which megaten games (including persona) you think most deserve a remake/remaster and why.
I mean, the correct answer is DDS 1 & 2 but still
I agree that the last three Persona games are much easier then mainline SMT. Though the first 2(technically 3) are not as easy....especially the Snow Queen route in the first one.
Don’t remind me of the Snow Queen Quest
P1 and P2IS are actually incredibly easy, even more than 3 and 4, people just don't know what exactly about them is broken. In P1, Nuclear skills deal an insane amount of damage. In P2IS, TEC-based Fusion Spells deal an insane amount of damage.
The only reason anyone finds SQQ hard is probably because everyone tries to go for Thanatos Tower first to get all 5 Ultimate Persona totems. Which honestly doesn't seem sensible to me, since most of the Ultimates are kinda trash and aren't even necessary.
The only one of the classic trilogy I'd even say is "hard" is P2EP, but using buffs is pretty much one of the easiest and best things you can do to win a fight.
@@TGAM2005 Well, the Remastered Versions of IS and 1 nerfed the enemies pretty hard because PS1 IS is very similar in difficulty to EP
@@everettwatsonrazorearcwolf6553 I'm not even talking about PSP IS, I played PS1 IS and while it isn't as baby easy as PSP, it's still easier than EP aside from maybe the final boss
Also: P1 PSP didn't nerf the enemies, some enemies had some minor stat changes but most of them aren't nerfs, not to mention buffs, Tetrakarn, and Makarakarn were nerfed on P1 PSP
@@TGAM2005 Ah, fair enough
The people you are talking about in this video are just like the douchebags who are terrorizing Allegra Clark over being cast as Mitsuru in P3 Remake and accusing her of being trans when she isn't.
i started with persoma 3 a couple years and i told myself i probably wouldnt like smt cause its too serious. i finally tried out smt 5 when it came out and loved it and now im 65 hours into smt4. i really love the themes and the unique atmosphere in each, cant wait to play the other games in this series. both persona and smt are amazing in their own ways
I’ve beat persona 3-5 and I’m really interested in trying smt so this video was super useful 👍
Great video agree with all your points.
I also think that these unfair criticisms coming from persona fans trying out mainline for the first time puts off people from mainline for the wrong reasons. I've seen critiques saying the story is straight up bad (not just different), or that the combat is bad because its harder and these critiques must be putting off persona fans or even fans of neither from trying out the series. I think a really bad critique ive heard of smt is yahtzee's zero punctuation on smt v, and his videos get millions of views (more than mainline even sells)
Ask SMT fans what they think about SMT V's story.
@@athorem smt fans are wrong about v's story
@@louish5068 I disagree, and criticism of V's story comes from smt fans, persona fans, fans of neither and fans of both
@@athorem and praise of v's story comes from a wide range of people too. Its a divisive aspect and story is a very subjective thing. I think Vs story is either you love it or hate it and its easily 50/50 on that, but negative opinions are always just shared more. I could write for ages about why I love Vs story and many other people could too while criticisms usually dont look deep enough into it.
@@louish5068 From what I see it's usually people like it or they're indifferent to it, you're one of the very few who I see praise the story, even fewer use the word 'love'. There are a lot of positive reviews for this game, but the vast majority of them either gloss over the story or criticize it
That feeling I get when ignorant people think Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth is like Persona.
The artist is the same guy that did Devil Survivor’s art, for Christ sake.
to be more acurate it's diet Soul Hackers and I love it!!!
@@demi-fiendoftime3825
…or DDS.
Digital Devil:Digital Monster
Theming.
The one thing I would add is that while the Persona games are easy compared to the mainline Shin Megami Tensei series, they're fairly difficult compared to, say, most Final Fantasy or dragon quest games.
When it isn't slathered in poison marsh, I love the Tokyo map. Well okay maybe "love" is too strong a word.
I grew up with Dragon Quest.
Just carry dis-poison lol.
SMT Nocturne was my second SMT game whereas Persona 5 Royal was my first, and I wasn't disappointed by Nocturne at all. It's hard as hell, but I still love it. While I have not started hating P5R, I can understand the frustration so many mainline SMT fans are feeling, because any and all publications never give SMT recognition for anything other than Persona in the same way they never give Capcom recognition for anything other than Resident Evil and Street Fighter. But that's not to say that those who prefer mainline SMT Persona are anywhere near perfect, as they are very picky about mainline SMT games also such as calling the original Megami Tensei on the Famicom "mid" for no good reason whatsoever. And because of how Persona 5 is hogging the spotlight from other SMT games, I am fearful it will start to end up like Street Fighter II, and not in a good way.
“Persona games aren’t hard games”
Me stuck on Madarame on hard in my very first play through…
😅
One thing I'd like to hear
Is what you think of the tone the persona series has.
I feel 2 was dark then things got lighter as the series went on.
Relative to a lot of JRPG, RPGs, and Video Games, Persona deals with a lot of dark subject matter that's very real in peoples actual lives, but it given a lot of space to breathe, ultimately making it approch ke and not just a pure downer.
Something like Mainline is primarily about dark subject matter, and feels no obligation to give you any room to breathe.
In other words Persona is pretty dark, but it might not seem that way when contrasted with SMT, which is definitely darker
@@spudsbuchlaw kinda what I'm asking.
2 specifically there was little time to breath,light moments.
No dating,socializing
It was atmospheric the whole ride
@@argoth231 Persona 2 like all other smt games of the time were based on late 90s anime like EVA, Cowboy Bebop, Gundam Wing, and Trigun when it came to their tone as that's what was popular at the time.
occult and slice of life became more popular in the 00s hence why mainline dropped the cyberpunk and went all in on the occult and persona became a slice of life Sim similar in tone to many of the popular shows of the time. this is why soul hackers 2 looks nothing like SH1 as it's not 1996 any more and what was popular cyberpunk back then isn't what's popular now -_- Persona 2's dark tone is a product of its time as it was inspired by all the apocalypse themed and noire anime that were airing at the time of its development
Even though the series are mostly different and have somewhat similarities with demons. I like to think about the Shin Megami Tensei If and it’s connection to persona and how persona has bloomed.
Don't forget that smt if... and persona are also connected to Devil Summoner which is cool
Since I come from Persona, Persona 2 (and 2 again) I was kinda let down with the new series. Looking for a DS so I can play Strange Journey as I type.
I love both smt and persona. I think both series bring something unique to the table and are both valuable in their own right
I fell in love with SMT V head first recently. Now, I don't know if I'll like Persona, since it looks kind of "the power of frienship" compared to SMT
As soon as you said gatekeeping sucks I got a Magic the Gathering ad. Is youtube trying to tell me something?
Agree with everything you said, point blank. Awesome vid, Mac!
they are sibling series similar to Fire Emblem and Advance wars or Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts they share similar concepts but use them in very different ways. In SMT and Persona case SMT is gameplay focused, Persona is Character focused
Banger vid
I think for fans that started out with Persona.. maybe a more transitional approach to the rest of the SMT franchise may help with the experience and in understanding what both game franchide try to convey... I'll take myself as an example for instance my first tittle was Persona 3 and then Persona 3 FES, and it obviously left me hooked, craving another gane that game similar experiences I came upon DDS, while keeping the more apocalyptic setting while maintaining focus still on the characters (which now I see as a perfect combo of main SMT and Persona) and then moving onto Nocturne, and subsequently falling more in love and with main SMT
I played both SMTV and persona 5. Although ppl compare the games they're not wrong about SMTV being inferior to Persona 5. SMTV was challenging, but it did not have a good story or characters on its own merit. It was a mess tbh. It's true, it really didn't have heart.
Agreed. That's the issue with the fans trying to shut down Persona comparisons. We've gotten to the point where SMT fans will say the opinion that P5 > SMT V is invalid because "noo you can't compare the two", but then they'll quietly accept it when someone says SMT V > P5. It's just shielding the game from legitimate criticism. If SMT V was actually a way better game than Persona 5, they wouldn't have to shut down the comparisons between the two.
I agree I played both games smt v is lacking when it comes to story and endings but I do like the gameplay more than persona 5’s
I don't blame anyone who compares persona 5 with smt 5, for 1 reason: The marketing for SMT 5 was trying to be persona so hard, that when the game was out, people noticed that they were nothing alike and got angry, I already knew smt was nothing like persona and the trailers made me believe that this time they would ve more similar.
The fact that SMT5 had a dogshit story also didn't helped its case, the game marketed its human characters and those didn't appear at all.
To me SMT5 is really persona without a heart because atlus tried to sell it as something closer to a persona game than it actually is
SMT fandom to persona fandom: u took everything from us
Persona fandom to SMT fandom: i dont even know Who u are
Have you ever done a challenge run video? Not a stream, but like a nicely edited hour or so long video like nyarly. Your presentation style is much better in my opinion, you should have numbers like his.
Persona focuses on characters and storytelling. Mainline SMT focuses on mechanics and ideologies.
In persona, the idea that you HAVE the power to change the world thought your actions and values is always present. In SMT, your personal struggles and actions are irrelevant in the majour context of the world events unfolding before your eyes up until the end, where most is already lost or decided.
I absolutely ADORE both approaches and I hope there will be many many entries from both series in the future. :)
I like both series but for different reason. The character elements of SMT aren’t usually the highlight as much as the turn based combat isn’t the highlight of persona. Persona makes it so you want the current dungeon to be over so you can get to the next story beat while I’m often irritated by story in SMT and just want to be back fusing demons and fighting.
SMT actually has a story and lore deeper than persona's. It just uses the surroundings to tell a big chunk of story instead of textboxes and cutscenes.
I liked this a lot, helped me appreciate both series more. You should Talk about the alignment system and what your favorite one to do is.
I remember I hated Strange Journey the first time I played it because I was expecting a Turn Management Focused Gameplay similar to Nocturne, Persona or Devil Survivor.
I had to give it a second chance and ended up liking it as a Dungeon Crawling game with more focus on Demons and Items management (still a bit too grindy for my liking)
Love these videos!
Petition to separate Persona series from Shin Megami Tensei series and not keep it as a spinoff series
I actually found persona 4 golden really difficult since I was really underlevelled and when I got to shadow yukiko I had to play on very easy for the next few dungeons since I was about level 7 at shadow yukiko.
atlus literally makes both games so idk what the issue even is lmao
i've played both series and love them both but there are very obvious similarities and differences.
"social links"(or npc affection) and the very same looking monsters and monster abilities/weaknesses are a big similarity.
That's like saying Fallout 4 is the same as Morrowind or Elden Ring is Armored Core. It's stupid.
@@mateusgreenwood1096 stop being a childish idiot. i said social links and the very obvious same looking monsters are the big similarity's. i understand nuance is hard for a small brain to understand, but at least try.
My favorite SMT spinoff is Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth Hacker’s Memory
Persona 3 Portable was my first Persona/SMT related game.
I only found out about it from XPlay review, and lesser UA-cam channel reviews back in the day.
Went on to try it, beat it and it was my new favorite game for a while.
I didn’t know what “Shin Megami Tensei” even meant, but I did figure it was the Japanese name for the Persona series.
Eventually I realized what it meant, went on to beat P4G, P5R, SMT3 HD, SMT4, SMT4 A, SMTV, SMT DDS, SMT DDS 2, went on to play Soul Hackers 1, Devil Survivor 3DS 1&2. Am going to buy Soul Hackers 2. Even finally bought/played TMS FE Enchore Switch version.
The Persona vs SMT arguments are stupid. Why limit yourself to one or the other? They both have their ups and downs.
Yeah, it sucks that SMT can be lacking storywise, but often times Persona can have too much story and too much life sim. crap.
I may have not gotten around to trying smt (blame pokemon for that one 🤣) but even I know that comparing smt to persona is like comparing persona to Pokémon… completely different franchises that although have some small similarities with mechanics (typing in Pokémon is the same as the whole weekness thing without the knock downs, just gotta remember which is which) but other than the very basics that link a lot of jrpg’s there approach’s and even topics covered a drastically different. For example the last main line Pokémon was essentially the fossil fuels issue translated into a Pokémon story, where as 5 tackles an hell of alot of societal issues with a focus on Japans cultural impact on how those issues come to be (it’s actually fascinating if you wanna research into that stuff) about as polar opposite as you can get and that’s just themes alone. I assume the same goes for smt v persona.
I’m terrified by how incredibly HARDCORE SMT games must be if Persona games are considered “more casual.” Holy fucking shit, there’s so much to do in those games and so many things to juggle and I often forget things that wind up being important side activities to complete if you want to be strong enough for a boss and they just totally make my Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest experiences seem simplistic. But god DAMN, that has to mean those are ALSO more casual-centric game franchises! So… Playing SMT must be like trying to run a fucking tabletop RPG.
Not related to the vid but whatever happened to project re:fantasy? It's been years since the game was announced.
I don't really agree with Persona being different from SMT. It's literally part of it. Yes, it's focused on dating sim elements more than anything, but as far as RPG battle mechanics go, they're the same games. Personas and Demons are functionally the same.
SMTV is basically just grinding mementos no stop with a couple cutscenes at the end lol
you can make this video basically every year and it will still be relevant unfortunately not being a dick is really difficult when thats what alot of people characterize themselves as.
As a person who started by playing p3p and just loved the dungeon crawling ,the moment they Let me Advance in that tower i Made It as far as i could and the go down all the way back to floor 1 and go up again in a single night ,then i played smt 1 and i loved it
I remember getting into arguments with some people over the IGN article. They basically didn't see the difference between the ones calling out the bad review and those being assholes like calling her names. I showed them examples of people just saying why she is wrong and they were like she is getting gaslighted when she agreed that one of her takes were bad...
I recently got into persona and am working my way back to the original trilogy to try and get into mainline smt. Consider the fact that I like the dungeon crawling and demon fusing the most I'd say I'm on the right track.
The way I got into smt as a persona fan was first playing both versions of 4 (apocalypse being easier, and a little more persona like) and then playing strange journey. After that the other games aren't too hard although I haven't gotten the chance to play nocturne, and have been told it's harder.
i tried both smt V and p V, and tbh the social aspect of persona wasnt my cup of tea :c but the ominous- dark and existentialism of SMT V grabed me by the balls and took me to a journey ill never forget, im used to jrpgs being about charecters, this one was about religion, philosophies, culture and politics, and it was so cool B)
maybe ill try PV and like it at some point? maybe~ at the moment, i prefer the tough creepy atmospheric dungeon crawler
I dunno. I find higher levels of difficultly in Persona to be very difficult and yet in SMT, it's the opposite.
I recommend SMT to my sister who's been interested in persona as I wasn't aware of all the differences, I will be correcting this mistake, I will also go on record to say I've not played persona
Honestly the only truly difficult persona game is 3. Only fes version
Say 1, but then realize it isn't difficulty but just plain jank
I played both series and I love both of them!
Just what I signed up to this channel for: good opinions.
I wouldn't say the series are totally different as many people do. I'd say it's *significantly* different. There are lots of similarities, but the differences? They're quite significant and worth exploring. But that doesn't mean they're apples and oranges.
"People thought that Shin Megami Tensei was the Japanese title for The Persona Series"
Me who has never played a persona (but interested) game but a bit of Soul Hackers: Uum...no they are part of the same franchise. Shin Megami Tensei translates to
Shin=New
Megami = Goddess (?)
Tensei = Reincarnation (?)
Persona was what the spin off series was also called in Japan.
The only assumption I made was that because the SMT subtitle was dropped on Persona 5 title cover, they (Atlus and Sega) realized that the Persona series has just evolved into it's own thing separate from SMT despite any similarities. Veteran fans of either series can and are encouraged to correct me on this presumption.
Should be done with Nocturne this week. Then I'm going to play the 3DS's titles and buy 5 after.
My thoughts on this: Persona 4 Golden is the best Persona game while SMT V is the best SMT game. And between the two, it is about what the player prefers (for the characters P4G is superior, for the gameplay clearly SMT V). For me, it is SMT V all day every day 24/7/365.
I started with p4 and played nocturne second. Nocturne is now one of my favorite games of all time.
What are your thoughts on certain people saying that SMT V is bad because it tries too hard to be SMT III?
I made the "mistake" of playing SMT first. While persona isnt a bad game, im not really into the whole social thing. Its very bizarre to me as a classic rpg player. I went from SMT vengeance to SMT 3 HD remaster, then finally got around to playing P3 reload, and yeah...its just weird. Im only like level 11 though so hopefully it picks up. Im sort of bored just doing social stuff and running the same dungeon over and over again.
There are many reasons to gatekeep Those who fail to Gatekeep one day Be a gate kept themselves.
You shouldn't want your favorites whatever To be blindly consumed by everyone. Because everyone doesn't have the franchise Concern at heart.
Look at the amount of people who don't even play persona five That make massive demands In changes to keater to them
The less popular sequel to Too Much Water; Not Enough Persona.
Imma just say this, anybody who says "play a real SMT game" have likely never played a real SMT game.
I've been a persona fan since p5 came out, since then I've played and completed p5r, p5s, p4g, and p3 fes. Recently I played nocturne for the first time and it was quite good imo, but part of me lacked some sense of satisfaction in completing it. Like, none of the endings I could've gotten didn't really resonate with me at all, and due to the fact that I named all the characters dumb things as a meme, I feel like I just softened any impactful moments for the sake of the funny. I do prefer the persona series over smt at the moment, maybe I'll play another smt game for another comparison at some point, maybe my opinion will become more evenly split if I do?
when i fist got into Megaten I played P4G on Steam and wanted more from Atlus. as I was looking into the community I found certain youtubers gatekeeping and critcizing fans for playing Persona before smt. I also always heard the term *play a real shin megami tensei game* I even showed interest into Nocturne and one Megaten had a knee jerk reaction to what I said and told me to not expect the game to be like Persona. Thankfully I found some other cool megaten youtbers who were supportive of new fans coming in and were encouraging me to play the game. I had fun with Nocturne. I'm glad it worked out but I really do hope the gatekeeping stops with Megaten fans becase if it weren't for the nice ones I probably would have just been another bitter Persona fan and not fuck with the wider megaten community or the games.
Perfect video
I absolutely do not agree with the notion that Persona is casual in terms of difficulty. If we're talking about Persona 3 and 4 then yes the re-releases made them easier, but if we look at them from a perspective of other RPGs for a moment you can see that most RPGs are easier than Persona by a long shot. I wouldn't say Persona is a hardcore series. I would place it in the middle and place SMT in it's own category. SMT is kind of isolated in the sense that it commits RPG sins on the regular and does not care. Things that are not really present during many of the NES or SNES RPGs I've played, but are negatively associated with RPGs, are things I've noticed are in basically every SMT game I've ever played. I also wouldn't say that SMT is necessarily hard most of the time. Sure, on Hard battles can be a bit more ball busting since you're subject to RNG, but I think the main thing keeping me from playing Nocturne wasn't the difficulty but the long stretches of no developments, no direction, and unrelentingly frequent random encounters that make FF3's encounter rate look good by comparison. I'll admit to dropping the game years ago. Maybe it gets harder, but I remember distinctly beating one or two of the more notorious bosses and going "Wait, that's it?"
Good video, I liked the message.
good video. too much asides about topics like gatekeeping and community references that were truly besides the point.
There's a difference between one person sending you 50.000 message which is harassement and 50.000 people sending you 1 message, harassement this days don't mean anything
last time i asked someone "did you really did that ? " and the person responded "stop harassing me " lol it was the only and last time i ever talked to it
i just downloaded the P5R for PC i've done P3/P3P and i've always been thinking that SMT was a totally different game it feels hardcore in the customization and gameplay it seem really less forgiving than persona which is more laid back enjoy the story kind of game, good vid' !