Persona Users vs. Demon Summoners (ft. Fither)
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
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Despite being part of the same franchise, Persona and Megami Tensei are very different from one-another in many ways, with gameplay being one of them. In Persona, the summoners become their Personas, while in other Megami Tensei games, they summon their demons. In this video I'm joined by long-time MegaTen UA-camr Fither to discuss the differences between the two, who would win in a fight, and which one we'd rather be. Be sure to check out Fither's channel above!
Persona Users: Has friends
Demon Summoners: "All my friends are dead."
persona 2: i miss my friends
Persona Users: What happened to them?
Demon Users: We killed them.
Push me to the edge
@@dracodancer3262 you were supposed to reply "They got kicked in the head"
@@MarvelousAdmirer445 Persona:Why?
Demon user:They disagreed with us
Yu: This is my best friend Yosuke. He’s a bit of a klutz but he’s a good guy at heart and a good friend.
Demi fiend: This is my best friend, Beelzebub. He’s a giant fly, he’s chill. You've probably heard of him in the Bible.
Beelzebib, satan and lucifer are diffrent beings
They’re three dicks on a bench
They’re three dicks on a beeeench
There’s Beelzi, Sat’ and Luc’
And they’re three dicks on a bench
The dicks!
Not Satan, but the embodiment of Chaos.
@@tchelikdabril9628 satan is law:/
@@swagtajm1418 I know that, I'm referring Beelzebub as the embodiment of Chaos cus he is.
Getting a demon
-Hey I'll join you for a life stone
-Hey thanks, we will be a great team
-Here take this as a token of our friendship
*obtained life stone*
Getting a persona
-I am thou, thou art I
*room starts to go to 500 degrease*
😂🤣
Retendo ikr
Getting a material in P1 or P2?
- Oh this is fun
-Oh I like you
- I like you a lot
- Here, let me give you this! *a useless item*
Well, fuck...I don’t have enough to produce A PERSONA, (or you didn’t give me A CARD to help me make a persona) gotta go again
In P1 - Yay! I got their card. Wait...I didn’t get a card to fuse you to get a Persona? FUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
Second battle:
Yay! I like you, here’s my card!
*Card isn’t compatable to first card or gives a really shit persona*. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!
The way i see it:
Demon Summoners = Pokemon Trainers
Persona Users = Stand Users
Pretty much.
......demon summoners have their own stats though.... and they're frigging strong on their own too.... like Abel (blue haired Demon Summoner guy), can literally become the second Messiah in one of his endings.
STANDO POWAAA
@@OwenKufta OH MY GOD
@@unnamedtheanonymous763 So Pokemon Trainers that are willing to do some of the work themselves.
“The Smt 1 protagonist really doesn’t have that many impressive showings”, I think that’s why he’s my favorite because he’s literally just some guy when it comes to his journey
I think space marine is just a little funnier because he is literally guy with gun and beats freaking aleph, a being that killed god
They may not be impressive _compared_ to the others' but "some guy" doesn't just go to fight Asura with a sword.
The smt 1 guy is just a dude who fused his dog and got his mom killed
@@yugimumoto1 I don't remember the dog killing the mom...
@@denkerbosu3551 I don't think he was saying the dog did but just what feats the character has. A demon killed his mom and became a look alike so you have to kill it and you fuse the dog with a demon to make a powerful Cerberus.
The Demi-Feind has Dante from the Devil May Cry series.
Jacob Whitehead god like
Or Raidou
leonard Raidou is amazing as well but Dante hit me like Raidou did for different reasons either of them were the topping on top, something that wasn’t needed but intriguing all the same .
@@BrownProductions23 i want both of them in the same game. If Nocturne will get a HD remaster they should put both.
Instant win
Casuals: PQ2 is the best SMT Crossover
Me, an intellectual:
Persona isn't an SMT game.
It's SMI
Just browsing the store... SMI?
Just browsing the store... SMI?
Shin Megami Tense Q The diamond Relam
@@EverydayYounglife Only 3-5 aren't really.
Persona users: I can summon beings from the sea of my soul to fight
Demon Summoners: I have recruited and trained multiple demons to fight at my side
Space Marine: I got a gun
that's why i love space marine, he doesn't need to be an edgy half-demon tattoed exhibitionist, edgier midget Godslayer or any of that fancy shit, he just needs a gun to kick ass and make even the mightiest gods tremble before him.
Ghost Ryder All you need are four Demonica and you're set.
Persona 2 character: I got a gun too!
Jorge Rafael Sánchez guzmán True, but there's three problems.
They aren't the top of their class in military academy
They aren't equipped with their own personalized Demonica
They aren't American
Space Marine=Doom Guy
Door-kun: I'm about to do what's called a pro gamer move.
*dies*
Makoto really does achieve the dream. He comes in, steals everyones heart, becomes the leader of a clandestine organization, fucks a hot girl, saves the World & dies while he's still pretty. Legend
@@Fanimati0n fucks like 10 hot girls*
@@chronica6457 and is also engaged to a 5 year old girl......WAIT
Do you mean the great seal
The long awaited crossover has happened. I hope they read Doujins together next time
Whats a doujin
Nuno30318 do you really want to know?
Nuno30318 uh oh you’re too pure
@@misurie hm nvm,i googled..
@@nunothedude can we get an F for our fallen soldier
Am I the only person that finds it hilariously flaccid that while in Persona 3 4 and 5 the Velvet Room is this big reveal, but in Persona 2 (and maybe 1 idk yet) it's just there in the mall when you're on your way to get weapons from a Ramen shop?
The weapon shop locations are always fun. I always enjoy buying weapons from the police station in P3
P3: the room is an elevator to represent your always being on the move
P4: it's a limo in the fog, bc you're lost
P5: it's a prison, you're trapped by fate
P2: it's a Hot Topic, bcos you're edgy lmao
@@tobequitefranco actually in both 1 and 2 the velvet room is a Twin Peaks reference
Faulty Videos hm how exactly ?
Faulty Videos yeah you’re right lol never watch twin peaks but persona is definitely alluding to it
Demifiend solos.
ft. Dante from Devil May Cry
@super sonic batty smasher you do realize he was also using much weaker skills and demons than what are available in Nocturne, right? And you can imply from both the fact that he can kill you if he just kinda feels like it, and how it just plays random encounter music, Atma Avatars are just another basic enemy to him.
@super sonic batty smasher Ah, so a being who killed Kagutsuchi (a god who basically maintains the entire Amala network) is weak? Nice joke buddy. This feat alone places him as a multiversal character in terms of destructive potential, which far exceeds anything the Persona users are capable of.
@super sonic batty smasher give him freikugel and endgame demons and serph would cry under a table...
super sonic batty smasher Yeah no
Demifiend isn’t even the strongest of the demon summoners here. Megaten 2 guy and Abel both wash him in a fight
"They've got to have a miracle happen in order to win"
Shiiiit the theme of the each persona game is them pulling off a miracle at the worst possible moment haha
I think that's just how jrpg's work in general
Persona games and basically most Jrpgs in general nowadays is effectively this "Let's use the Power of Friendship to kill God" while in SMT you have to fight for your life because you don't have any friends (And if you do they turn traitor because they're a bunch of ********)
@@MrRay568 lol 4 apocalypse
@@BIackViper Anarchy ending is kind of an exception though
@@MrRay568 p4 golden had it right. Adachi is an isolated person vs chad yu and his firends. The duality of those characters was amazing if you look back at their reasoning. At least I think this theme fit 4 the most
I want a megaten fighting game with all these silent weirdos
Man, I would love a fighting game with Demi-Fiend in. Dude is a total badass
Ando Commando Same idk why they haven’t done it already when they got P4A as a good base for this
@@nolanstrife7350 Not only Demi-Fiend. I truly want Flynn, Nanashi, Kazuya, the SJ soldier and so on... fighting each other. They all have so different weapons and powers it would be very interesting.
Featuring Dante From the Devil May Cry Series
Nagito
I don't know why people keep bringing up the "Lucifer was testing demifiend" thing. Why would lucifer hold back on his strongest weapon? He's come this far and if he can't fight Lucifer at full power how could he fight YHVH?
And that's why in smt 4 time-line demi fiend was killed by lucifer
I think
@@SterneStarfrost pretty sure he just went to apocalypse right before fighting Lucifer
@@SterneStarfrost i think that what he meant is that he was facing Lucifer when he was teleported, and he thought he had died
@@SterneStarfrost i think that what he meant is that he was facing Lucifer when he was teleported, and he thought he had died
Right?! The whole point of that testing was to see if he was able to stand by Lucifer's side against God, or if he would be just another minion. In the end we see the demi fiend LEADING a demon army, so Lucifer definitely recognizes him as an equal
"The dude only killed archangels and higher demons, maybe lucifer is afraid of him, he ain't that special"
"I've killed God!"
"Get in line..."
Now archangels are just level 16 so I’m not sure what Lucifer was afraid of
@@Avada_ontop Levels in game can not be used to scale things. I think Thor has twice the levels in Strange Journey compared to Devil Survivor 2. What happens in cut scenes and battles with only one outcome is canon. Gore is more powerful than the main character in the beginning of the game since Main = 1 and Gore = 10. Jimenez is also stronger than the main character for part of Strange Journey since he starts out as a level 30 the first time you see him fight. The Angel Mastema from Strange Journey looses to the main character from SMT4 so Main SMT4 > Mastema. The main character of Strange Journey eventually rivals Mastema as well so it would be a good fight Strange Journey versus SMT4 main.
How different games handle the protagonist learning magic is interesting as well
Demi-fiend: I eat bugs
Serph: I pay for them #capitalism
Devil survivor guy™: I kill demons for their magic
Flynn: Jack Frost shoves his tongue down my ear
Commander Shepard: G U N
I love the apace marine, strongest protag and its all because GUN
SMT 1 guy and Aleph: Lol whats magic
@@funninoriginal6054 wow just WOW you made me laugh very hard
Flynn doe
@@heroponriki518 you right he did solo Odin but it was a fake and it wasn't even Flynn but if he had his back against he could with the help of some demons
Persona Protag: "Alright I got my Sword, My persona, My friends I'm ready to rock and roll!"
Strange Journey Protag: Rolls up with an assault rifle, combat knife and thicc ass demon waifus.
Not inaccurate
I think this is indicative of the differences between mainline/spinoffs and Persona.
Mainline/spinoffs are triumphs of the individual to assert their will on the future and Persona is unlocking the potential of relationships and groups to accomplish the impossible (in the worlds of Persona).
Also, Abel w/Holy Dance wins.
Holy Dance and Dual Shadow
Seriously those "Elemental Dance" skills in Devil Survivir are stupidly busted
@@dantemustdie00 I kinda want them to come back.
Dance skills are used so often in these games that you dont even need a Devil Survivor: Dancing All (Blank), you just need to play those
@@funninoriginal6054 Either that, or the DeSu dancing games work in a combat system into their rhythm game. Each verse counts as a turn, and before the start of each turn, you select the elemental dance you'll be using, buffs you wanna use, your partner demon, etc. The skill doesn't activate until your current combo finishes, a bigger combo equals more damage. Certain skills give you multiplier bonuses or combo saves (keeps it going even if you fuck up) or damage boosts. During the enemy's turn, a remixed version of the song plays and you have to play well to avoid taking damage. If an enemy is defeated before the song is over, a new one appears. Defeat one enemy per turn to take on the stage's boss.
I dunno, I'm just spitballing ideas here. I know you were joking, but it was fun to think about how this theoretical spin-off would actually work.
My boy demi-fiend will friekugel pierce all of persona users.
Do you remember which magatama gives friekugel?
@@shashix6551 its Kailash, chief
@@friday8651 I need to enter tower of kagutsuchi to get Kailash don't I? I wanted to complete my physical build while doing the labyrinth of Amala this time. Already beat Beelzebub so it should not be a problem though.
@@shashix6551 Yep. You can get it there iirc. Good luck sniping fools with your laser beam of death.
Ah yeah, you can't forget about skills that have physical pierce capabilities
*Retcon Comment*
Persona Users: "I fight for my friends!"
Demon Summoners: "All my friends are dead!"
Atma Avatars: "I eat my friends!"
@Walker Farnsworth Ye.
What's ike's persona?
@@philiphunt-bull5817 The Goddess Yune
@@menacingbanjo5113 What about Surtr instead? The Ragnell can create fire as well xd
Aleph and space marine solo everyone.
Aleph and space marine both need companions to get the job done, Demi-Fiend only needs his demons.
Space Matine is problemly the most normal guy around, and he SOMEHOW defeated Sheikanah which is literately a female Yaldabaoth, as well as a ton of Tyant's with nothing but guns and a advanced battle suit.
@@dantemustdie00 science is the true power, such is the philosophy of a japanese prodigy with white spiky hair and a nazi cyborg.
@@leninthebeaniesouhacker.2459 Sekai Ichiii
If we go with the redux version of the space marine, then he would be super op since he just deals with the Schwarzwelt by himself for centuries and is basically becomes dr.manhattan.
one thing about Abel is that no matter the route he HAVE to became King of Bel so yes, God is scared of him even when he try to make it seem like "if you do anything stupid you are dead" Abel just brush it off like "I wanna enjoy the rest of my fricking summer, dude"
Also naoya states that I'll "return soon" from my fight with yhvh at the end of the overlord route. and i dont how nice people think he is but he wasnt just gonna let me leave heaven alive so its kinda obvious that i was at the very least winning against him so abel>yhvh
only endung where you don't become king is Yuzu's since Jezebel leaves amane aftet Belberith stops God's judgement.
I haven't even finished a SMT or Persona game and I know Demi-fiend would flatten at least three of the Persona protags.
Man's fighting demons and gods shirtless and in shorts. He's a menace.
Plot-wise, yes, Demi-Fiend is stronger. As for gameplay wise...I feel like Demi-Fiend would be hard, but not impossible to beat
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 This is a lore discussion, though.
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 How strong Demi-Fiend is in a non gameplay sense is, as best as I know, virtually impossible to determine bar via trying to scale him to other people. Which, putting aside scaling is not necessarily or hardly the best or most, ah, reliable way to do things, its still the best you can get, because as far as I'm aware (and I'm hardly a SMT buff, mind you) he does virtually nothing impressive in an environmental sense in Nocturne. Its all based around who and what he fights and beats, and what THEY do.
And again, that's...still not really very helpful, either, unfortunately.
@@papapalps2415 demi-fiend fights beings that are beyond the concept of dimensions (3D, 4D) so he would be outerverse level
However the same can be said for every MegaTen protagonist so demi-fiend isnt going to 1v3 persona MCs and win
@@papapalps2415 Devil fiend in smt 5 says hi
"That's his full name. 'Akira-Ren-Joker'."
No, you heathens. His name is clearly 'Chair-kun'. Can't you see Door-kun shaking his head disappointedly?
No, his name is XxHaremf*cker49xX
@@Azure-Flame-Bee man of culture.
He forgot a 2
Incorrect, his name is Harry Mobus
I thought it was Haremfucker69
The virgin Persona users VS The Chad Demon Summoners
Lightning but Yu is the ultimate Chad
I mean you're not really wrong lol
I mean, if there's anything the Persona users aren't it's Virgins. At least the modern trio of protagonists.
I'm pretty sure Tatsuya is strong than the modern trio persona
@@kue_m I did say modern trio though
>2:15 AM over in my country
>Nyarly uploads
>ft. Fither
*record scratch* it, I'm staying up!
Edgy eBoys VS True Edgelords
For "Edgy Boys" most of them are happy people
StormDracoX Yeah. Good for them (^:
Soooooo no winners? 😂🤣
@@StormDracoX how lame, happiness is for the birds. Me and my boys don't play edge, we live it. My mom kicked me out of the house at 28 and now I carry myself expressing this ultimate betrayal. Me and Demifiend chilling in suffering together. Both of our world's were destroyed nahmean.
Screams in persona 3
It doesn't matter who you are, the space marine always wins
with the power of freedom!
Redux space marine is actually a madman. Defeats Mem Aleph, female YHVH, and then becomes immortal to solo the schwartzwelt ever 100 years or so.
That guy is practically SMT's Doomslayer I was baffled by the SMT history section that this guy was a protagonist he's so much of a left field from usual MC's
@@tonyinfinite5174 he is American not Japanese
@@hee-ho2473 Doom Slayer from Space there is no America in his point in time same thing for Space marine SMT one he's from a Holocaust Japan as a nation doesn't exist neither can be catigorized with ethnic background
I was wondering when you two would collaberate. Your channels cover mostly the same ground
Also, if Persona 4 is the only game to feature the reincarnation of the goddess, Izanami, does that mean that Person 4 is the only True Goddess Reincarnation game? Checkmate, SMT elitists.
Hoonter of hoonters Persona 3 had Nyx
SMT IV Apocalypse actually had a sidequest involving Izanami, you can even get her as a demon afterwards.
Actually, Izanami is the Goddess itself. "Reincarnation" refers to the plot of the first Megami Tensei games, in which Izanami reincarnates on Nakajima's girlfriend whose name I don't remember now, Nakajima being the protagonist of the first game of the series, Megami Tensei for the NES, before the SHIN Megami Tensei series began on SNES. So, this first game is the only to have portrayed Izanami, the Goddess, reincarnated somehow. In that way, Persona 4 could be called Persona 4 feat. Megami haha
@Kaidoku123 and the god of america is def jam fight for new york.
@@LucasAllanAlmeida persona 4 featuring izanami from the goddess May cry series
What about Nanashi? He is a bit too op just because he's Dagda's godslayer. He technically can't even die, it's canon that dagda would just keep reviving him. If Nanashi and Flynn teamed up since they are both messiah's they would absolutely annihilate the persona users.
Yeah, lore wise nanashi is really darn strong, but dagda gotta stay hidden in the shadow realm.
He's way too broken man lmao
As they said, too OP
Yeah Nanashi and Flynn may be too much.
Shit, who knows what Masakado's katana could do to a Persona if strucked, might actually temporarily kill a persona.
DMD00 in no instance did we ever see a persona even getting injured in the games so genuinely have no idea what you’re smoking
Raidou’s unseen ultimate technique of summoning 8 demons at once? Like Gouto told him not to use it against Demi-Fiend at the end of their fight.
People seem to forget that raidou can summon 8 demons at once
Yeah, kind of sad seeing people call Raidou weak because he can't use magic. He's one of the few protagonists to actually fight Lucifer's real form.
@@marlongomezacevedo2170 mah guy the lucifer raidou fought is fodder campered to the one in noucturn
@@invisibleair2156 Even the intro of the soulless army tells You that he can do that lol
Woah it's my Megami Tensei bois together!
Persona are just nothing to real demon lol
Persona 1 and 2 is fighting demons...
@@nerothewateruser8030 So is 3, 4 and 5. Shadows are technically demons themselves.
It’s been so long since there’s been SMT V news, that Atlus support literally had to say on Reddit that the game is still in development
Oh god thank you for saying this, I'd honestly given up!
Guess what
Long hair man waifu is here
Well an SMT protag can die in a fight but his demons can still do stuff and even resurrect the summoner during the fight. So a Persona Protag would need to team wipe to really win against a devil summoner.
Just remember, it only applies for Flynn and Nanashi (since if the protag dies in any other game, it will be game over)
Abel: I can summon two demons at a time.
SMT 1 Guy and Nakajima being able to summon 5: You gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers.
Also Abel: And I have a demon that can't die unless you use a specific item, and an almighty move that can hit up to 5 times, doing 500 damage or so each time
Abel: "Also, apparently God is scared of me."
SMT1 dude and Nakajima: "Say WHAT!?"
@@thomasthecoolkid7228 Nanashi and Last Bible Protagonist(who actually fought the axiom/great will): Alright bet
@@thomasthecoolkid7228 MT2 guy:meh
Demi-Fiend: 3. I can summon 3.
> *Uses Raido and Demi-fiend*
>Me: Holy shit, the Persona users are frikking dead.
Edit: Holy hell, Abel too? that's too one sided tbh.
Raidou*
@@jaderabbit898 He means Raido, the one from the other reality (the one with the scar).
Neo Foxxy I know. But why mention him when the video uses Raidou and Demi-Fiend?
@@jaderabbit898 i dont see why not lul
The cool part is the persona/devil summoner universe is after the good nocturne ending so this means an adult Demi fiend is walking around Shibuya as a normal everyday person
I'm just saying...
Raidou beat a Warship after hacking away at it for about 20 minutes with a katana
All of them vs. Space Marine.
I'm the 39th like
I dont think that the imperium can fight against the power of persona and social links. They don't know the power of friendship because they are xenophobes
@@MrRandomstuff9 smt space marine
Merciless Mode yeah I didn’t know that he existed when I made that comment. But my point still does stand
@@MrRandomstuff9 i mean smt space marine oneshots all owrsona users at once
I like how, to make it fair, you left out space marine
Not that it was fair anyway lol
Thinking back on this Abel is a much bigger threat than they gave him credit for. Because outside of being a contendor against YHWH he has access to the *entire* demon army. All of the other Demon summoners have a limit for how many Demons they can pull out over the course of the fight, Abel has no such limit as far as we are aware.
Respecc
No one ever mentionned Door-kun being able to summon 2 personas at once completely on his own using skills like Cadenza or the infamous Armagedon. There's also the fact that Door-Kun didnt immediately die after using the great seal and could keep fighting after using it. I don't think it would have tipped the scales really but it does make him a league ahead of the other persona protags.
Tatsuya > door kun
@@dokkanbattleplayer2921 your crazy bro
@@lazyness4439 Just facts My dude Tatsuya claps door kun
@@dokkanbattleplayer2921 I do love Door-kun but Tatsuya did beat Nyarltothep's ass iirc
People also forgetting that his ultimate persona isn't from the world arcana (the usually strongest one), but from the universe arcana (alternative to the world that's even more powerful). I'd say that Nyx withstanding the universe arcana and not being obliterated but just sealed just shows how impressive she actually was.
Tatsuya fought Kandori one-on-one. Tatsuya went solo on a crusade straight up murdering the Chinese mafia on a cruise ship. Tatsuya has a lot more in common with a devil summoner AND is very accustomed to fighting uphill battles on his own. To say he's barely on the level on a nerd that has a few demons and a gun is selling him short when he's actually faced straight up mechs with machine guns.
@Daddly Lou Gerera he also almost entered kadath mandala
Well, considering that personas are just a persons subconscious manifested as an "image" of a demon not an actual demon, and that most final bosses in persona are normal demons for the other games, I'd say persona users are WAY outclassed in this. Like, just look at Demi-Fiend (BTW, Lucifer was going all out and trying to kill The Demi-fiend, in the DLC for SMT4Apacolypse you meet a Demi-fiend from a timeline where he fails, and he specifically mentions Lucifer killing him. So in the canon timeline he is stronger than Lucifer) or Raidou, both are multiversal in both strength and defense, and the Demi-Fiend canonically has masakados wich makes him immune to everything but almighty, guns, and earth. You could throw almost EVERY persona user against the demon summoners, hell just against the Demi-Fiend no assists, and they'd still be having a rough time, none of them have access to earth skills, very few almighty, and most of them don't have guns, P3 and P4 cant tough him out side of almighty. And when you factor in demons, Demi has a Megidolaon Pixie at full power, Raidou has dozens at his disposal.
This is just WAY one sided, your pitching an imitation of a god against the actual god. It basically goes like this:
Joker: Behold my Persona, an image of the great Satanael. Now face my power, COSMIC FLARE!
Demi-Fiend: *null*
Joker: ...
Demi-Fiend: Oh, cute. I knew Satanael. The real Satanael. I killed him.
Joker: Oh... Uh.. Um... Say, how bout I give you a few thousand Yen and we call it a draw?
Demi-Fiend: Yen? What the fuck is that gonna do for me? How much Macca do you have?
Joker: W-what's mac-
Demi-fiend: *freikugal*
Joker: *99,999 damage, dead, utterly destroyed*
Here's a shorter way to say this.
Abel: Holy Dance
GG Persona users.
Merkabah to persona users: "filth." *shalt not resists continent.*
P3mc can, at the absolute least, seal one of them off. His abilities make him gain a phyrric victory against whoever he fights.
P4mc has myraid truths, which i beleive is an almighty attack that (technically) oneshots a god tier enemy. P5 also has a similar power. Both of them can manifest energy enough to put fear into velvet attendants, who are no pushovers themselves. Their strength comes from all of humanity.
Would they lose? No doubt. Even their best is barely enough to push the top summoners to their limits, but they're not so weak as to be outright killed by the more "normal" summoners, as their top levels, (for at least 3-5) are pretty much manifestations of humanities will.
P2 protag might be able to stop time, so him winning might actually be possible depending on how we factor in the time hax.
P1 and p2 have earth element attacks
Tech Mark Cool
"Quick Maki, use tera"
*Maki uses tera*
*Demi-Fiend takes 1000 damage*
*Demi-Fiends HP: 22,000/23,000*
*Demi-Fiend uses Gaea Rage*
*P1&P2 casts all take 9999 damage*
*P1&P2 cast dies*
Also demi fiend has Dante. I think once he's out that's even more of a gg situation.
Demi-fiend also gets raidou in the Japanese version.
Don't forget the fact that Dante is superior to Mido who's on par with Stephen.
I'd think it's pretty one-sided. Just imagine Abel using Lucifer plus an almost invincible Metatron, that would be pretty scary
Or just summoning beldr with no weaknesses
Or using a Michael with repel phys in nocturne.
Or uses Holy Dance, which is P5 Myriad Truths on super steroids
I think you kinda forgot that in Persona 1 and Persona 2 it's stablished you can summon your Persona at any given time. P3 and so on characters can't summon their Personas at will unless they went to train their concentration or so (i don't really remember). But yeah, i think demon summoners could wipe the floor with Persona users
Close.
In p3, 4 and 5, gods are creating places which are effectively made up of the collective unconcious which makes it easier to summon. There is nothing to suggest that they CANT summon outside of that, but its implied that its so much harder and not believed possible by the characters
@@nelosparda4798 like i said the characters dont think they can. But in reality, they probably could. Its just so much harder that they dont even realise it is possible.
The only modern persona series that could summon their persona outside designated time/place are that damned trinity soul.
in p3, you can summon personas outside the dark hour, and it is possible to do so without an evoker, albeit difficult. in p4 and p5, you can't summon them outside of the tv world and metaverse.
@@satriorama4118 you forget P3MC/Door-kun can summon his personas outside
Evidence being he summons a persona if you choose to kill Ryoji and it happens before Dark Hour
Oh no... If only they had someone that could stop time. *Stares at Tatsuya*
SMT protags are immune to time stop due to fighting higher dimensional beings and creatures that transcend time
@@Wounded_Asclepius :0 so its the same Type of Persona as Apollo!
Tatsuya stopping time is super ironic considering his seiyuu is known for voicing DIO
@@paperluigi6132 Yeah!
@@Wounded_Asclepius wtf thats op
Every party has one guy casting Mediarhan every turn
I think the fact that P1 and 2 characters accomplished such feats without the power of the Wild Card makes them much more impressive, because they have much less ressources to work with and options available to them, which is why I honestly think Tatsuya is by far the strongest Persona protagonist, and probably the strongest Persona user in the series, because he accomplishes more in his duology than Earring boy
I prefer the way Personas are handled in P1 and P2, every party member effectively being 'diet wildcards'.
man dont you see, kandoris persona was nyatholept or something and i beat him, i beat nyx, which minato died for, and i beat pandora a god that can litteraly create DIMENSIONS, and you guys think im weak. how sad
@@naoyatoudou1039 you right but idk Tatsuya seems a bit more powerful
The Wild Card was only introduced in P3, before that the power to use multiple Personas isn't a Special Power, any of your Party Members can use multiple Personas
All I'm saying is.... fusion spells
To give some perspective on whether or not Lucifer used his full power against Demi-fiend. Just think “would Demi-fiend have been any use against the great will if he couldn’t defeat Lucifer at his full strength”
For real. Lucifer NEEDED to make sure demi fiend was stronger than him. Otherwise what's the point? I swear those guys are dumb
In any way he defitively used his entire power and the power of god against the nahobino and demi fiend was able to stand his ground against the nahobino pretty well even if he would likely be defeated if the battle went on long enough
As someone who did a max ambrosia run of the snow queen quest, I believe it's canon. I mean it literally goes into the sebec route at the end of it
Abel's Drain+Holy Dance+Victory Cry will wipe the floor solo here.
I've always just thought it was obvious that demon summoners were stronger in general cause there for the most part more physically able and can pretty much use multiple personas at the same time plus all the skills and shit themselves.
Raidou can summon 8 demons at the same time, imagine using 8 personas at a time
Assuming everyone can metagame their sides...
- Makoto can use Armageddon as a solo fusion spell.
Yu and Joker (joker especially) would use min-maxed perfect Yoshitsune's which have AOE nukes while also resisting pretty much everything.
Tatsuya would be screwed unless we let him fusion with Naoya to do Dashing Strike's.
That said, still pretty sure the Devil Summoners win because we can take them to extremes as well.
This is not going to sound with sense but smt protags have extremer extremes
Tatsuya can stop time wtf
Screwd is the most unlikely thing that he would be
@The Axiom oh i didnt know about that
So thanks for the info
Megaten 2 Hero,Aleph,Nanashi and Space Marine: "You rang rang?"
They're just waiting to be used in a vs debate but people won't because they're too op
@@kingedgelord4726 true if aleph replaced kazuya and nanashi nekojima they wouldn't beat them barely but fucking absolutely
@@kingedgelord4726 I hate that on Vs Battle wiki they fucking lowball them so hard saying "SMTs verse isn't complex enough to have megaversals or Outerversals" when simple demons have claimed being outside of reality and the laws of time and space. But they'll have no problem making Demon Bane Outerversal just because of how much Lovecraft is wanked on that wiki, it's a shame really.
@@phillemon7664 Vs Battle Wiki is okay for getting a basic idea of someone's powers and abilities.
...But factual and debate wise? *Looking at shit like every single Casltevania character being Multiverse level or Goku vs Alessi or Jimmy Hopkins vs a fucking T-rex.* ...I wouldn't recommend it.
@@opadrip yeah, still wondering how every Persona users are solar system lvl - Universal. I can get behind that Minato/Makoto, Tatsuya and Maya are universal but frickin everyone? Bruh
This is just the kind of thing I was hoping someone would make.
SMT Strange Journey protag is the most OP demon summoner
Until SMT 5 comes out
@@mrnukes797 tms 2 is what's gonna change it big time
I dont think Space Marine is losing his title any time soon
Why is he the most OP? I haven't played Strange Journey. All I know is that he's a marine.
@@_Koyomi_ ua-cam.com/video/t7s43QKcCZI/v-deo.html
I found P5 this July and I haven’t been captivated by a franchise like Persona in a couple years. It’s how I found Nylary! Needless to say, I’ve started investing serious time in SMT with Nocturne being the game to break me in. And as much as I love my boi Joker, my other boi Demi-fiend would body the Persona crew with his Godslaying Focus+Pierce+Freikugel/Deadly Fury tripleta.
Ft. Dante from the devil may cry series
As Long as Demi Fiend starts using Gaea Rage, The match will already be over.
Especially if he also has the Pierce and Focus skill.
Yeah but makoto can use armagedon ( and tatsua though he needs another person)
What about infinity?
Ooooh didn't know that but if infinity can defend against megilodaon...
@Makoto Yuki makoto struggled against nyx a regular enemy for demifiend????
I’m just saying, if Abel can survive Megidoloadyne, he can survive a lot more.
respecc
They all can given the right stats
raidou and demi-fiend after their games they became multiversal travellers , demi with amala network and raidou has the arakana corridor, raidou is one of lucifer sparks ( mesiahs that can fight YHVH ) this guy can use masakado's katana and fight as equal with futsunushi (manga feat) the mother f god of sword fighting, and he can summon the final boss mecha god abomination of the first game, the dude is pretty powerful, he is toe to toe with abel and demi-fiend
PS: raidou also learn pierce and he also has physical almight ( nocturne chronicles maniax )
The Amala Network is only in Nocturne, Otherwise all of SMT is it which his has big problems if consider things like TDE
@@raikasha8152 to be fair, almost every ending is cannon, some endings get more games on the timeline, and then we have the multiverse, it's kind complicated, smt timeline is a mess, let's just let it be, and have fun with this stuff
@@TheGreatLords I mean I can but it's still very incorrect to say so. That theory implies a wide thing about the SMT multiverse that's contradicted by the cycle Kagutsuchi makes and stuff. Get what I mean?
@@raikasha8152 it is implied that every timeline in smt is in amala, the cutcsene in nocturn when the youg lady in black are telling some information, the visual key to this is like every dot in that explanation is a universe
@@TheGreatLords You're correct about the dot thing but it dosen't imply that at all. The Lady in Black A.K.A Lucifer explicity says that the point of Kagutsuchi is to empower a human to make their on Reason. Which involves gathering Magatsuhi and summoning a powerful demon god like Baal and using them to remake the universe. If all the games were in Nocturne every setting in every game would always involve getting reason bearers and ect. Along with the light of Kagutsuchi being present but he never makes any appearance in other games
If Aleph, Flynn and Nanashi were here then this would be an absolute slam, not just that but Demifiend and Raidou (who was holding back on Demi) alone can just slam these guys, Tatsu is the only one I can see facing against only one of those guys
Time stop is a very balance skill, isn't It?
@@Noahs_Chair not just that but the feats he’s shown to do are stronger then every protag in persona (I’m of the belief of it aint shown it ain’t canon so go to the end of the line in terms of strength makoto universe is the same card as the world just from another deck)
Well, Nyx is technically the mother of both Philemon and Nyarlathotep as she created the collective unconscious, and while just being described as an alien, how she is and the fact that she seems to exist in a different realm just makes her an eldritch god, and while Universe Arcana Makoto/Minato couldn't kill her, he technically defeated her as Nyx couldn't do shit to him, and he even managed to stay alive after using all of his life energy just by sheer determination. So I would argue that Universe Arcana Makoto/Minato and Tatsuya are on a similar level of power.
@@theeaglemaster388 Nyx is mindless, Nyx is also weaker then the collective
@@theeaglemaster388 Erebus is the real problem in persona 3,and is on the same level as nyx, and is only a small fraction of Nyarlathotep
Also imagine summoning beldr without weakness.
Abel summons him and the devil summoners walk away laughing as the persona users spend hours hacking away at the Norse fuckface
@@NEETKitten Meanwhile Makoto asks them if he can go have a drink with them because he is a Messiah himself in a sense. Abel begrudgingly allows it, and Hibiki is probably ecstatic
The real question is who would win 20 year old male Caroline or fake juns dad
Devil Survivor was my first SMT game and the idea that the protag is just on par with a being that could kill god and can be resistant to just about everything, and do a lot of damage. The guy just seems so OP.
And maybe this just sounds really dumb but at what point do we get the most busted possible protagonist? Devil Survivor 3 where the protag gets a Persona, can summon demons, and becomes the King of Bel. Might as well make "Reflect most" instead of "anti-most" once you kill every deity.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 but i do kill god, thats the best part and after absorbing beldrs powers, i have null all at least
@@thekingofbel6511 Isn't it more just suggested we are going to kill god rather than we did or did I just mess up along the way?
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 oh no, its just so heavily implied that naoya, the the most intelligent person in the game, tells atsuro and yuzu "abel is almost done with battle against god and will return home" and someone as shook as yhvh was back when the first weaker original bel showed up, yhvh has more than enough reasons to kill abel right there, so in a death match that naoya basically states that he's winning.
@@thekingofbel6511 Fair enough. I do really wish we got that boss fight though or a $10-$15 DLC sequel where it showed what the siege on Heaven and killing god was actually like. I don't want a whole game but I wanted to actually fight and kill God myself. Just a few fights, a couple new demons, and some more dialogue with a final option on what to do with the world.
Humanity is finally free from God, but you are no longer human at this point... You are the world's saviour but have the power to be its unholy ruler. I will trust the writers for what the options should be but I would like an ending where we use our powers to hide our identity or change our appearance and go back to living a normal-ish life with Atsuro and Yuzu, halting demons from interfering with earth.
Persona users: beat evil with power of friendship
Demon summoners: decide their own fates by their own hand
only counting mainline it's already a unfair fight because of Aleph, Tadano and Nanashi and putting the other spin-offs in it's a massacre, Seraph and Abel are simply too op for the Persona users to handle
Tatsuya: Nova Kaiser!
Apollo: Great. Now everyone has stopped except for me. Now what?
Abel and demi-fiend still moving: went from a slaughter to target practice
But doesn't Tatsuya have time stopping abilities? Would that help at all?
He could at least get some of the demon slayers with some Nova Kaisers
also hes voice by dio
Space Marine fought Yggdrasil who had time manipulation and it did jack to him, so not really.
@Order & Chaos Thank god that never happened to me
@Order & Chaos i know this is over a year old... But I can still hear the Beast Eyes...
Persona users: Have a giant demon with a gun, Jesus 2.0, Chad glasses, the man who reseted the universe and earrings.
Demon summoners: Demi-fiend
Welp good try persona users😂😂
Did u forgot about Futaba's position hack and final guard?
Also don't forget about unstoppable, OP and impossible to defeat....
Mitsuru's marin karin
you forget Kazuya Minegishi the King of Bel who conquered heaven
@@JustCheppo from devil survivor? LMAO yeah mainline smt is broken af
@@tumaien4188 yeah even tho they said the game didn't explicitly said it overclock clearly stated on its ending that he is returning after conquering heaven
Wouldn't persona users just become demon summoners in the SMT universe anyways?
Persona Users: Let's Go
Hitoshura/Demifiend: Gaea Rage
batle is over
Yeah, you'd need Repel Phys (Pierce doesn't stop Repel)
7:52
Smt1&Nakajima-can sumon up to 5 at once
Demi-Fiend can sumon 3at once
Raidou can sumon 2 at once despite what the opening shows
And Able can sumon 2 at once
So that's a max of 22 dudes in the Demon Summoner party
And then we talk about how Abel and Demi are, without demon help at the end of their games, Lucifer level lowballed
just 22 dudes chilling, 5 feet apart cuz they're not gay
Final Raidou can Summon 8 demons in same time xd not forget
"Well to make it fair" means the persona users have no chance without in-universe handicaps.
I have rewatched/listened to this video nine times. NINE. *TIMES.*
Persona Users win P1 Boy with the Earring has a move called Spin Kick
Spin kick is best
Fucking spin kick, best move
Demifiend: nulls all.
@@mirraisnow6050 you must be fun at parties
@@cringekid3993 Smirk
Now that I think about it Atlus could make his own smash style of game lmao
I'll be honest "Abel" or "the king of bel" its effectivly stated that he's winning the war. He also gained the ability to summon as many demons as he wants at the end of the metaton fight, Including the likes of the other bels. He also no longer needs the summoning program if that counts for anything.
Why does everyone sleep on the Snow Queen Quest? Well besides diffulculty of course. Freaking Nyx appears there as the "Night Queen" final boss for crying out loud! Who of which the Persona 1 crew actually defeat then are im0lied to continue to do the SEBEC Questline right after.
So you're putting Izanagi incarnation, Adam incarnation, the japanese version of an Ubermensch, the King of Bel, and the sexier Summoner in History... against a bunch of teenagers who play with masks. Interesting.
I wouldn't consider Kazuya that weak, he can summon very powerful demons as the rest. It could be his speciality since the rest of them can cast spells and stuff like that.
Yeah, Kazuya is probably one of the stronger protags, and ironically the most chill from what I have seen, and the only one to keep some of his friends. As for his offensive capabilities...just...Holy Dance. Imagine P5 Myriad Truths, but it does way more damage and can hit up to FIVE times. And mind you, Myriad Truths is the most broken P5 skill ever
Demon Summoners no doubt, but I need to hear the debate. Lol
So I'd like to talk about a few things, such as numbers, and a forgotten, but rediculous, advantage team Devil Summoners has:
For simplicity, I will refer to the hero and heroine of SMT 1 by their canon names of Kazuya and Yuka. Also TBH the real number crunching is on the summoner side due to the various numbers, since Persona is at least consistent.
1) Just the characters in the list and their personas/demons: It becomes 5 persona users vs 5 summoners, alongside 13 demons (2 from Abel, 3 from Demi-Fiend, 1 from Raidou, 4 from Akemi Nakajima, and 3 from the SMT 1 Protagonist). This is not counting backup demons, just the max number of entities that can be in the fight at any given moment, so technically due to backup, the summoners have WAY more than 18 bodies on their side. This scenario is stacked in the Summoner's favor, since at the very least both Abel and Demi-Fiend are on par with their demons power-wise, if not beyond them.
2) If both sides had a full party, as they would have in most combat scenarios, we would instead have 20 persona users (5 groups of 4), up against 11 summoners (Any 4 from Abel's group, as well as Demi-Fiend, Raidou, Akemi Nakajima and Yumiko Shirasagi from Megami Tensei Famicom, Kazuya, Yuka, and either the LAW or CHAOS protagonist from SMT 1), and 17 demons (8 from Abel's group, 3 from Demi-Fiend, 1 from Raidou, 4 from Akemi, and 3 from SMT 1). So in this context, the fight has a number distribution of 20 vs 28 at any given moment, but that, again, doesn't count backup demons, or backup party members.
So basically it's either 5vs18, or 20vs28. If you aren't counting demons, it's either 5v5 or 20v11.
I'd say personally that under option 1, the summoners have a clear advantage, and would sweep, especially since none of the figures on the summoner's side would have to deal with multiple opponents at once, whereas the persona users would.
Under option 2, the fight is far more even, though the summoners definitely still have a clear numbers advantage. The Persona users would have a number of advantages thanks to having a full team, such as outnumbering the summoners themselves almost 2 to 1, and their own support moves that they have the protagonists of 4 and 5 would also have some backup if a party member went down.
As I mentioned at the start of this comment, the biggest, most ridiculous advantage that the summoners have, is Abel's comp, and it's frankly hilariously OP Harmonizer feature. To those that don't know, the Harmonizer changes the frequency of the user and the user's opponent, causing you to deal more damage, and the opponent to deal less, this is why, even as a normal human with no magic at the start of the game, Abel could punch demons into submission. He basically has the ability to make his opponents weaker at any given moment. It also affects ALL allies in its range, such as when it's proximity to Haru made it affect her enough that she survived multiple hits from powerful demons with no serious injury. Anyone the user views as an ally becomes stronger, and tougher, while anyone viewed as hostile becomes easier to damage. In Devil Survivor, the only reason this didn't work on other people you fought, is because they also had comps, with the same OP harmonizer, and they canceled out one another. When you beat someone else and broke their comp, they didn't keep fighting, because they knew that they *literally could not harm you anymore*. Even guns were only effective for the SDF members when they had a comp canceling the harmonize feature. Since only Abel has a comp with the Harmonize feature, the entire Demon Summoner group has a massive buff right from the start.
well...that Harmonize deal is utter bullshit, to which I will want to ask is it technological in nature?
Though not really assured I wonder if Oracle could technically try to hack it with Al-Azib if Necronomicon or Prometheus didn't have enough power to do so. Cause if she could hack it maybe she would reverse it's features? Not certain if that would tip the scales enough, but it certainly would level the playing field a bit more
abel doesnt use his comp after he beats metatron
The main thing that makes demon summoners edge out persona users is the fact that they beat and make demons like beelzebub or satan submit to their will.
Abel and demi fiend are definitely the strongest out of the group however raidou has taken on demons like Lucifer as well. Dunno if lucifer recognizes his feat but its still something.
Kazuya has a more busted version of P5 Myriad Truths, while Demi-Fiend can one-shot anyone from the Persoma cast with a Freikugel or Gaea Rage, assumimg they do not have Endure on them
I think Tatsuya, despite being my favourite from the Persona protag bunch is (ironically) the 2nd strongest, he inherits his Persona power from Philemon himself and along with his team sends literal crawling chaos back to where he belongs, however.. Door-kun (Unlike Naoya for whom you said could be argued as "universal") is quite literally The Universe Arcana, if he had time to develop his ability further he'd be in my opinion some equivalent of a God (regardless of the implications that he's the Persona universe's "Messiah", all puns intended) or as Igor in Persona 2 EP puts it "a Persona Master" such as Chandraputra (Maki was stated to be halfway on becoming one, Tatsuya was noted as an extremely talented Persona user capable of embarking on the path of a Persona Master).
the main Difference between them are.
Persona users, are natural/talented.
Devil summoners, are the Expert/Trained.
Persona users gain strength reflected by their persona. they gain skills naturally and becomes stronger passively when they are just living their lives. the relationships becomes their strength.
Demon summoners are trained. they requires tools and with it funding. more so when summoning off their own alignment. they are more vulnerable(with exceptions) than persona users. but they can summon multiple demons.
Space marine, Abel, and Demifiend would like a word
All 3 are without help as strong as messiah
@@V2ULTRAKill even in their failed forms that Stephen saves are called messiah.
The problem is the persona universe exist probably because hitoshura managed to not fuck himself in the normal ending.
I can imagine if he still wandering as normal human living his life in persona universe, keeping everything in secret.
So, in short:
Persona users are like the X-men
Devil summoners are like the Avengers
@@V2ULTRAKill space marine has a suit that let's him act like a demon.
Abel absorbs the powers of Bell. Giving him powers of a demon.
Demi fiend, is pretty much a Demi fiend.
Space marine and Abel had tools to set out their beginnings.
And in Abel's case the tool also act as his defence, aka the harmonizer. And his medium for summoning.
In devil survivor they clearly display what happens to regular folks compared to summoners. When facing demons.
Persona user has a inate defence reflecting their persona.
While summoners has things like the deamon suit, and the harmonizer. It is something any civilian can use. No special requirements.
@@shinronvaynex5900 while true the power level of these summoners is on a completely different power level
We are talking YHVH level fighters when even others with the same tools were fodder level.
Space marine was stronger than every other demonica user in that game by far so there is the personal element paired with the tools
And end of game chaos route Abel no longer needs tools, he us just innately yhvh level
The answer is the atma avatars.
Nah, the awnser is the jack line of demons, they're too stronk and thicc.
Atma avatars are a bit risky.
Jack frost wins...no questions allowed
@@martil.5642 mothman is a preety close match to him tho
Hee ho?
This is a really interesting discussion. Makes me want to play more of the SMT meta series.
YES!! ITS FINALLY HAPPENED!! THE CROSSOVER I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR
This’ll be interesting
Tatsuya makes a fighter jet impression, and shocks SMT 1 protag causing him to miss... the ultimate plan.
construction equipment
The protagonist of devil survivor really takes up a lot of space.😂
ha
You don't even have to know about SMT to know that the persona users get washed.
This feels like a spite match.
*Edit note
Also Fither sucks at scaling persona characters. He's 100% not a credible source to find out how strong these characters are.
And no. The great seal doesn't kill people for god's sake.
Would it even work
@@yodagaming5905
If you're talking about the great seal, it only works against NYX and Erebus.
Just by happy Nyarly didnt throw in Space Marine to dick the persona users harder
Please read Devil Survivor 2 doujins with Fither for the next video.
The problem is that no one can face Yu and his Chad power without falling for him
13:17 yeah the final boss of the third semester literally overrides reality with his own cognition so he is at least on the same level as Yoadabouth maybe even stronger
My interpretation of how Satanael works is that Satanael is sorta constantly changing in strength depending on how much the people of the world believe in change and free will, do it ranges from “OP Yaldabaoth destroying monster” and “Pretty good.”
Just bring all 5 Mesiahs, and the persona users are screwed!
P3mc is just immune as he gets a messiah himself, so he just chills out with them while everyone else just dies
Raidou beat Lucifer 3 times and at full strength, even lucifers Angel form, that’s a huge accomplishment,especially considering that Lucifer even hinted that he would need him later (aka SMT 3)
welp, we must remember that Igor is the servant of Philemon. thus we can assume that philemon is somewhere between yaldaboth and Igor in power.
EDIT: also halfway through i noticed you forgot about Raidou, and how Raidou is trained.... to kill demons AND people.....
The guy is a trained soldier, that must be valueble as a skill.
Makes me wish for a Persona Arena X Megatensei team Fighting game
I always considered Avatar Tuners as a physical version of a Personal Users, since they both use internal power source. This sets them apart from Demon Tamers, who are physical/external and completely opposite of Persona Users.