I did really like Vengeance; it has my fave OST in the series and I feel the best gameplay. Story wise I don't think it holds a candle to SJ and is not as good as Nocturne or Devil Survivor. 5 original had a good start and end, but rotted in the middle. V has a good first 2/3rds, then right around the summoning of Tiamat it began meandering and becoming dull, but had nice twists in the Taito area. And then the ending had the much more forced Lucifer battle when he basically had no lines in the game, they also took out the awesome scene where he convinced Abdiel to attain her dream, lessening both their necessary screen time. There's so much in the last 3rd that just didn't hit. Though the fixing of the characters, especially Tao and adding Yuko and the Qadistu giving the game a much clearer villain was great. Also Qadistu, Beelzebub and The Adversary themes slap so hard.
Not to mention the new 2 super bosses, level 150 and boss rush mode that keep scaling up to 999. (I think) and of course Demi fiend DLC is in the game by default.
Atlus community new record of actually appreciating the newest game instead waiting 5-10yrs for the "misunderstood masterpiece." I wish the ending CoV didn't just feel rushed immediately after the last Q sisters' fight, but it works.
The Cannon of Vengeance Zigs where the Cannon of Creation Zags and honestly fixes the whole product for me. Yoko, while a bit much is the catalyst for everything that improves the story in Vengeance. I also love that they included the Vanilla's DLC as part of the package since I never bought any of the DLC for Vanilla V aside from the Mitama of course which is entirely unnecessary in my books since you can find them no problem at fixed locations and Bethel Egypt's area gives you plenty of opportunities to grind for whatever you could need. Now to get 100% Completion on this sucker, I already have Creation Chaos and Vengeance Law under my belt and working on Creation Law and beating Masakado (SAVE FOR NG+ HE IS VERY VERY HARD!) then going for Neutral on Godborn, then True Neutral and finally the Vengeance Chaos route to wrap everything up. Spoilers for recommended route completion. (If you want to unlock everything and have a chance to play with them go Creation first, get Law to unlock Maria then Vengeance Chaos but enter the Empyrean Ascent as Neutral to unlock Danu and then go Chaos to unlock Inana. There you're good to go just need to beat Satan and unlock Godborn, have fun! Free tip Demi Fiend will help against Satan but not that much but yes Demi-Fiend will join you if you beat him but only in Vengeance since it has the Guest mechanic.)
Damn. That sounds upwards to 200 hrs of gameplay. Probably more. I put 50 in just the first and second maps but my roommate moved and took the copy of Vengeance with him. I'm going in on Octopath 2 then probably Persona Portable. Hopefully I can get a copy after that.
SMT VV is finally a god game, but I have to disagree on a few things. Firstly, I believe the story has shifted a lot in its themes, which the devs themselves didn't really dispute, saying quite explicitly that the perspective was shifted from Bull to Snake. While CoC reflects the anxiety at the collapse of the singular international order (and it's ever so convenient that Bethel HQ is Abrahamic and Nuwa is Chinese), CoV tackles the ideas of oppression and revolution, questioning the assumptions of underlying order that CoC took for granted. As an anecdotal example of the impact of these differences, I can easily say that I lean towards the Law ending of CoC while firmly supporting the Chaos ending of CoV. As for Innate Skills, they're actually incredibly impactful... for a small number of demons. Lahmu was on my Demi-Fiend party solely because his Innate was key to a Moonlight Frost crit build. Beelzebub demands the party to be built around his skill for efficient debuffing. As for Taito, Vengeance straight-up redeems it. With the boss level scaling no longer meaning you get flattened for daring to go from Cerberus to Zeus, Taito's openness is no longer the death sentence to game pacing that it used to be. Though I would agree that Shinjuku is #2 for me, the top spot remains with Chiyoda, where the confusing and cluttered layout synergizes wonderfully with its story significance, being a chaotic mess of a battlefield where many of the encounters you have are "friendly fire" from the Greeks and Norse running rampant in the streets. Before SMT VV I couldn't say for sure what game to recommend to anyone new to SMT. They all had pros and cons, and V wasn't even necessarily top of the pack. Vengeance changes this. Other games are better than it in certain singular aspects, but as a complete package SMT VV is finally an SMT game I can unreservedly recommend.
Awesome analysis! I agree with it all. I will say that we probably have not seen the full dimension of the innate skills mixed with the new team moves. There are broken builds that use strategize to fully debuff/buff the field; personally I look forward to making lower demons strong enough to beat bosses.
@@lordrikudouzero9119 Thing is, we're unlikely to see "the full potential" with a lot of these just because the cheeses that have already been discovered are ridiculous. When you can hold Omnipotent Succession to combo into Omagatoki: Charge and dismiss the party to have the Nahobino attack 20 times in a single turn (which is not even the final form of that combo), small things like Cybele spontaneously duping your Omnipotent Succession due to it being a charge effect are downright quaint. SMT VV is an utterly busted game, and that's not a bad thing. I didn't need the 20-hit combo to beat the Demi-fiend, I just used a party composition with one exposed Phys Resist, as well as a Lahmu to make the Moonlight Frost crit. Was it ridiculous power creep over the original release? Sure, but it was still pretty basic mechanically speaking, and it still made the fight much easier. And Accursed Poison has been around since the base release as well. The game is so broken that nothing is really "broken" anymore. You can just use whatever trick you personally find the most fun.
@@illusive-mike well when you put it that way…I always thought Omnipotent Succession was a “fake” ability; it really is god tier, 20 times is insane! Still a few weirdos like myself will try and make a unique team build viable.
@@lordrikudouzero9119 I mean, that's kinda the point of my post. Unique builds are the better way, they're just not going to get a lot of attention because you can't break the game that's already broken. When you go for the 20-hit combo you clearly aren't interested in playing the game. Meanwhile, using Cybele and having an extra OS out of nowhere just feels nice.
One of my favorite games of all time. It's literally turn-based souls(at least on Hard Mode(and up.) Doing a 1st Playthrough, Hard Mode was a blast, still playing off and on on Godborn. Game is just a blast, so hard to explain... It's like why do you keep playing Elden Ring? IDK but the challenge is just fun, it's just a blast... It's a far from perfect game but people are missing out. Should be more popular.
Bought the original for the switch and now i have to pay another 60 bucks to play the game they actually wanted to make. They delisted the original game from the store but i can't pay to upgrade it to vengeance? Atlus needs more backlash for this nonsense they've been practicing for years.
canon of vengeance in a nutshell: Law Wife vs Chaos Wife Also after finishing 2 last month I've played all the mainline games save for if... and these are my current rankings 1: Nocturne 2: 4 apocalypse 3&4 (tie): 5 Canon of Vengeance & 2 5: Strange Journey 6: 4 7: 5 Canon of Creation 8: 1
UMM howd you make thiss thumbnail its perfect! also I LOve this game !!! i just made a video on vengeance also your depicton on yoko was perfect or really any female Atlus female main character partner and ALSO THE GRAPHICS and everything is soo much better than the original its crazy this is the best version of this game!
I already loved base V, considering it tied with IV as my fav game ever. Vengeance obviously is a straight improvement, but I think its still hard to call it outright better than 4, so id say its still tied. Maybe if this was the original launch then it would rank higher. Things I like about vengeance are Tao (I already loved Tao as I compared her to Law Hero from SMT 1) and Yuzuru. Yoko obvs is a good character but I find her edginess unlikeable, but funny. A lot of the story is better, like Tao nearly killing Sahori's bullies, or you fighting Yuzuru. But then whenever they do something I like, they seem to do something I dislike. Like, Sahori's death in Vengeance felt frankly shit compared to base V. It felt like they just wanted to write her out of thr story. I feel like saving her should have been something that stayed, even if she played minimal role in the story (they lit could have had her just go to hospital and not show up and it would have been better). But also, I really like Sahori so its dissappointing she didnt get the opportunity to play more of a role in the story. I love Yuzurus death and that theres a bit more explanation for Dazai getting the magic power ,from Mastema, which does make it feel like maybe Mastema works behind the scenes in Creation. But then, the fact Dazai and Abdiel got absolutely cucked of their story is so disappointing. Theyre my favs from the OG, and now you dont even see Abdiel become Fallen she just does it off screen. Probably the most disappointing part for me is that the new nahobino form was revealed prior to launch. It ruined probably the biggest part of the story being that Aogami dies, and it was pretty obvs Tsukuyomi so it also suggested Yuzuru would die. I kept telling myself that surely they would only reveal that form if its not the only new one, and I was wrong. They spoiled an importsnt late game plot twist for no fucking reason. As for gameplay its a straight improvement, I particularly like Shinjuku area (though Chiyoda was one of my favs so its a sad loss for Vengeance route) and the demon haunts are amazing. I grew very attached to my Vouivre. I also love the option to turn off certain map icons, I turned off all the collectibles basicslly so the areas were a lot more fun to explore. The only gameplay change I dIslike, and I think was unnecessary, was the fact that Abscesses dont cloud the map anymore. I think its a stupid change that just makes it so theres less incentive to clear them, whereas previously they felt necessary.
This game is incredible, no question asked, and rivals with DeSu1 as my second favorite title in MegaTen (DeSu2 sits at the top) The gameplay is absurdly fun and the new skills just increase the freedom you have in building MC and how to approach battles. I used a hyper offensive playstyle along with items to waste bosses as quickly as I could, while other people on YT went for a more defensive comp, others ran mixed approaches and they were all viable. The details, oh my sweet god the details. I didn't expect Alice to recognize MC's change, yet she said "Why do you have that mask?", like they didn't have to put an optional conversation for a specific demon yet they did. But probably my favorite aspect, big spoilers ahead NO. NEUTRAL. ENDING! That's a huge positive as neutral is almost always the path with the most positive aspects to it (looking at you SMTIV), now that it doesn't exists, both Law and Chaos are viable options for the story, and both have their cons, probably a first for the mainline series.
I am working through Vengeance, but it is an amazing balance of everything. I think Demon Haunts are essential to that balance. I think that is what makes it so great. It is kinda a jack of all trades done to near perfection. I also didn't complete Creation, but that certainly felt rushed, and it wasn't balanced.
in my case Chiyoda is my favourite Dungeon don't care what anyone says about it, a dark and gritty Demon and Angel Warzone it doesn't get much better than that for me, doesn't help that its missing in Canon of Vengeance, Shinjuku is still an incredible replacement and i love it to death though, Shakan however is my Favourite new Dungeon of Vengeance, just can't get over how calming and atmospheric it is and the new Puzzles are chaotic and fun but yeah i recently beat Satan which took me 2 months of prep and im almost 600 hours in Vengeance, still my favourite game of all time just like OG was, along side P3, though Vengeance Story is like 10 times better than OG among other better things, the biggest addicting thing for me is the New Form and its battle theme with Omnipotent Succession, as i love to stare at Atlus' Unique Skill Animations getting to spam the same Skill 4 times as it tears apart Demons is like a dream, at some point i'll even attempt to put down Satan with an 4 time Aramasa spam Build right now im doing 4 runs of of Canon of Creation though from scratch which is lacking Omnipotent Succession, and you know playing a more lacking version of the game, but the plan is to do some Heavenly Ikuyumi Builds, one extra with Divine Arrowrain mixed in, that should give some Vengeance feel, though i actually hate Heavenly Ikuyumi's animation because Nahobino's not doing anything at the beginning animation to look at, but the lack of Omnipotent Succession might make it feel better since i don't stare at it 4 times, first Run in already complete at least with a Thalassic Calamity Build i never used in OG, still redoing these in Canon of Vengeance with Omnipotent Succession
6:48 i've seen a lot of people saying that the new endings are determined by choices you make throughout the journey, but i don't think that's 100% the case, i think you can get a different ending by choosing different dialog choises, it's a bit less obvious than the ones in Canon of Creation but i think it still works the same, i made choices not based in a single alignment but in the end i got chaos aligned, at first i got the chaos ending, then i reset it, a few different dialog choices later in the ''choosing between Tao or Yoko cutscene'' and i got the law ending
It 100% works off alignment. If you go to tokyo you can check your alignment based on which way the marker spins, you were probably neutral and were close enough in alignment to one side that you could flip between either one. Its like how in 4 its possible to be so neutral at a certain point in the game that no matter what choices you make you will only get chaos or law.
@@louish5068 hmm...i guess that makes sense, i was going for a more neutral path ( even though there is no neutral ending, didn't know at the time ) but the weird thing was that my marker was counterclockwise instead of just standing still, but it is instreting to know that going for a more neutral aligment in CoV can get you either ending, i think more people should know that, but in that case i still wonder if the dialog choices don't really influenced in some way or if really is random, because at the time i test it out it really seemed like a minor dialog choice really changed everything, or i guess i jusk got lucky
@@Guilherme_908 If you're Neutral when you go into the alignment lock, you get a special dialogue option to tilt you either way since there's no Neutral ending to be had. It's also the only way for Danu to appear in CoV, if you take Maria's quest before the alignment lock (something you can only do in CoV). But many people won't get that because there's basically no reason to track one's alignment in this game, and especially no reason to deliberately aim for Neutral.
Fr dawg, I know macca is a positive guy so this isn't so surprising, but man I did a quick literary analysis on coc and compared it to SMT 3 and wow, it was just bad. Barely any political motivations for any character(towards the end is slightly better). Most biased story in megaten...ever? Smt3 had a chaos start but even that was better handled. Characters are as wooden and bland as you can possibly make them. The story demons are so....meh, even 3 had better story demons than this. The pacing is god awful as well, feels like a persona game with an SMT coat of paint. 4 shits on coc, haven't played vengance but hopefully it's ok....if anything it'll be fun to see what changed.
@@iansantiago6526 CoV is a VAST improvement over CoC the characters are far better and the story demons are really fun and sometimes even pretty deep(miyazu and khonsu are some of my favorite characters in the series now) and the plot is pretty solid, though i feel it drops off a little bit after shinjuku
@@emperortoho That's sad to hear but hey It's a nice change of pace. I like the wizard girl of the Quaditsu, absolutely love her design. Good to hear it is indeed an improvement!!!
I can only agree. I thought nocturne was fun but i am so far going through every route on 2 different save files one starting with canon of creation and the other with canon of vengeance. This is my 3rd run of the whole game and i am still not bored. (Should i seek help?)
If I’m being honest, I will miss the re-releasing of games. It was more than added content. P4G and P5R are better than the originals, mostly for things that aren’t the extra story arc.
Also buffing Tao and nerfing Idun makes Tao and super Tao’s character seem less of punishment. You actually care about her because she wasn’t constantly benched. It’s pretty weird that making a character more functional was actually a way to save her character. She’s the proof for the Stormwind Fallacy.
I think Spencer Presley said it, but I would have liked both routes to be just one and change depending on your individual choices and gameplay. Missed opportunity ig
CoV is the same exact story but with qadistu replacing the (admittedly worthless) rando bosses like sutr and ishtar. Beelzebub and Baal are treated as different characters, have ZERO interaction or a part in the greater story at large when they're canonically more important than 99% of other demons. dlc demon (sakuya) completely breaks the game. "unique" spells from mid game (level 42 is mid game) almost required to parse super bosses, idun danu and demeter do not need to be in every boss killing party. oh and somehow after re-release this mid still has LESS demons than IV, a fucking ds game.
@@joebgreen9639 Vengeance has 276 demons and a 30gb install size, P5R has ~232 demons at 40gbs. Atlus can add more demons. Sprites in IV absolutely are animated, Shemyaza does the thug shaker.
When SMTV came out, I didn't even finish it. I just was so underwhelmed. But I'm on my 4th playthrough of Vengeance, getting all the endings and being completely obsessed. Easily my favorite SMT game now and I'd say its tied as my favorite Atlus game with Persona 4 Golden.
I heavily disagree with Yoko being a good alignment rep. She doesn’t make me feel like the chaos route was a good choice on any level. “Shes like a 14 year old edgy kid and I love her for it.” Well ok if you like that then sure, I personally was laughing when she told Tao she needs to be ready to kill bullies. Visually she looks great, and her role helps Tao a lot. I would never say she is as good of a chaos rep as Jonathan for example. Where he wants to dismantle the structure for a relatable reason. Yoko just betrays you, and then at the very end of the game does her doe eyes at the protag and expects you to have a reason?
Showing Dante in the "dont say rerelease waifu" section? Peak, deserved.
11:19 what would be cool is if magatsu rails worked sort of like rails in sonic, where you could switch between rails to get access to alternate paths
i still have the original on my switch, i wish i can just pay $20 to turn it into its Vengeance form.
They should have offered an upgrade path for original owners.
@@franciscor390 yeah
@@franciscor390 I wouldve preferred a refund
@@drachenfeIsyeah and maybe a free bj.
I agree. They should at the very least give a discount to the owners of the original...
I did really like Vengeance; it has my fave OST in the series and I feel the best gameplay. Story wise I don't think it holds a candle to SJ and is not as good as Nocturne or Devil Survivor. 5 original had a good start and end, but rotted in the middle. V has a good first 2/3rds, then right around the summoning of Tiamat it began meandering and becoming dull, but had nice twists in the Taito area. And then the ending had the much more forced Lucifer battle when he basically had no lines in the game, they also took out the awesome scene where he convinced Abdiel to attain her dream, lessening both their necessary screen time. There's so much in the last 3rd that just didn't hit. Though the fixing of the characters, especially Tao and adding Yuko and the Qadistu giving the game a much clearer villain was great.
Also Qadistu, Beelzebub and The Adversary themes slap so hard.
Not to mention the new 2 super bosses, level 150 and boss rush mode that keep scaling up to 999. (I think) and of course Demi fiend DLC is in the game by default.
And yall can be friends 😊
Atlus community new record of actually appreciating the newest game instead waiting 5-10yrs for the "misunderstood masterpiece." I wish the ending CoV didn't just feel rushed immediately after the last Q sisters' fight, but it works.
Macca put the entire family on the thumbnail. Based.
Nice catch
The Cannon of Vengeance Zigs where the Cannon of Creation Zags and honestly fixes the whole product for me. Yoko, while a bit much is the catalyst for everything that improves the story in Vengeance. I also love that they included the Vanilla's DLC as part of the package since I never bought any of the DLC for Vanilla V aside from the Mitama of course which is entirely unnecessary in my books since you can find them no problem at fixed locations and Bethel Egypt's area gives you plenty of opportunities to grind for whatever you could need. Now to get 100% Completion on this sucker, I already have Creation Chaos and Vengeance Law under my belt and working on Creation Law and beating Masakado (SAVE FOR NG+ HE IS VERY VERY HARD!) then going for Neutral on Godborn, then True Neutral and finally the Vengeance Chaos route to wrap everything up.
Spoilers for recommended route completion.
(If you want to unlock everything and have a chance to play with them go Creation first, get Law to unlock Maria then Vengeance Chaos but enter the Empyrean Ascent as Neutral to unlock Danu and then go Chaos to unlock Inana. There you're good to go just need to beat Satan and unlock Godborn, have fun! Free tip Demi Fiend will help against Satan but not that much but yes Demi-Fiend will join you if you beat him but only in Vengeance since it has the Guest mechanic.)
Damn. That sounds upwards to 200 hrs of gameplay. Probably more. I put 50 in just the first and second maps but my roommate moved and took the copy of Vengeance with him. I'm going in on Octopath 2 then probably Persona Portable. Hopefully I can get a copy after that.
SMT VV is finally a god game, but I have to disagree on a few things.
Firstly, I believe the story has shifted a lot in its themes, which the devs themselves didn't really dispute, saying quite explicitly that the perspective was shifted from Bull to Snake. While CoC reflects the anxiety at the collapse of the singular international order (and it's ever so convenient that Bethel HQ is Abrahamic and Nuwa is Chinese), CoV tackles the ideas of oppression and revolution, questioning the assumptions of underlying order that CoC took for granted. As an anecdotal example of the impact of these differences, I can easily say that I lean towards the Law ending of CoC while firmly supporting the Chaos ending of CoV.
As for Innate Skills, they're actually incredibly impactful... for a small number of demons. Lahmu was on my Demi-Fiend party solely because his Innate was key to a Moonlight Frost crit build. Beelzebub demands the party to be built around his skill for efficient debuffing.
As for Taito, Vengeance straight-up redeems it. With the boss level scaling no longer meaning you get flattened for daring to go from Cerberus to Zeus, Taito's openness is no longer the death sentence to game pacing that it used to be. Though I would agree that Shinjuku is #2 for me, the top spot remains with Chiyoda, where the confusing and cluttered layout synergizes wonderfully with its story significance, being a chaotic mess of a battlefield where many of the encounters you have are "friendly fire" from the Greeks and Norse running rampant in the streets.
Before SMT VV I couldn't say for sure what game to recommend to anyone new to SMT. They all had pros and cons, and V wasn't even necessarily top of the pack. Vengeance changes this. Other games are better than it in certain singular aspects, but as a complete package SMT VV is finally an SMT game I can unreservedly recommend.
Awesome analysis! I agree with it all. I will say that we probably have not seen the full dimension of the innate skills mixed with the new team moves. There are broken builds that use strategize to fully debuff/buff the field; personally I look forward to making lower demons strong enough to beat bosses.
@@lordrikudouzero9119 Thing is, we're unlikely to see "the full potential" with a lot of these just because the cheeses that have already been discovered are ridiculous. When you can hold Omnipotent Succession to combo into Omagatoki: Charge and dismiss the party to have the Nahobino attack 20 times in a single turn (which is not even the final form of that combo), small things like Cybele spontaneously duping your Omnipotent Succession due to it being a charge effect are downright quaint.
SMT VV is an utterly busted game, and that's not a bad thing. I didn't need the 20-hit combo to beat the Demi-fiend, I just used a party composition with one exposed Phys Resist, as well as a Lahmu to make the Moonlight Frost crit. Was it ridiculous power creep over the original release? Sure, but it was still pretty basic mechanically speaking, and it still made the fight much easier. And Accursed Poison has been around since the base release as well.
The game is so broken that nothing is really "broken" anymore. You can just use whatever trick you personally find the most fun.
@@illusive-mike well when you put it that way…I always thought Omnipotent Succession was a “fake” ability; it really is god tier, 20 times is insane! Still a few weirdos like myself will try and make a unique team build viable.
@@lordrikudouzero9119 I mean, that's kinda the point of my post. Unique builds are the better way, they're just not going to get a lot of attention because you can't break the game that's already broken. When you go for the 20-hit combo you clearly aren't interested in playing the game.
Meanwhile, using Cybele and having an extra OS out of nowhere just feels nice.
Same here on preferring CoC Law and CoV Chaos; I thought I was crazy lol.
One of my favorite games of all time. It's literally turn-based souls(at least on Hard Mode(and up.)
Doing a 1st Playthrough, Hard Mode was a blast, still playing off and on on Godborn.
Game is just a blast, so hard to explain...
It's like why do you keep playing Elden Ring? IDK but the challenge is just fun, it's just a blast...
It's a far from perfect game but people are missing out. Should be more popular.
Bought the original for the switch and now i have to pay another 60 bucks to play the game they actually wanted to make. They delisted the original game from the store but i can't pay to upgrade it to vengeance? Atlus needs more backlash for this nonsense they've been practicing for years.
Sadly many atlus fans are cock suckers
canon of vengeance in a nutshell: Law Wife vs Chaos Wife
Also after finishing 2 last month I've played all the mainline games save for if... and these are my current rankings
1: Nocturne
2: 4 apocalypse
3&4 (tie): 5 Canon of Vengeance & 2
5: Strange Journey
6: 4
7: 5 Canon of Creation
8: 1
It isn't "still" a good game, it's finally a good game because it's not trapped on an underpowered piece of garbage anymore.
UMM howd you make thiss thumbnail its perfect! also I LOve this game !!! i just made a video on vengeance also your depicton on yoko was perfect or really any female Atlus female main character partner and ALSO THE GRAPHICS and everything is soo much better than the original its crazy this is the best version of this game!
It fixed my biggest issue, demon conversation are now more complicated
I already loved base V, considering it tied with IV as my fav game ever.
Vengeance obviously is a straight improvement, but I think its still hard to call it outright better than 4, so id say its still tied. Maybe if this was the original launch then it would rank higher.
Things I like about vengeance are Tao (I already loved Tao as I compared her to Law Hero from SMT 1) and Yuzuru. Yoko obvs is a good character but I find her edginess unlikeable, but funny. A lot of the story is better, like Tao nearly killing Sahori's bullies, or you fighting Yuzuru. But then whenever they do something I like, they seem to do something I dislike. Like, Sahori's death in Vengeance felt frankly shit compared to base V. It felt like they just wanted to write her out of thr story. I feel like saving her should have been something that stayed, even if she played minimal role in the story (they lit could have had her just go to hospital and not show up and it would have been better). But also, I really like Sahori so its dissappointing she didnt get the opportunity to play more of a role in the story.
I love Yuzurus death and that theres a bit more explanation for Dazai getting the magic power ,from Mastema, which does make it feel like maybe Mastema works behind the scenes in Creation. But then, the fact Dazai and Abdiel got absolutely cucked of their story is so disappointing. Theyre my favs from the OG, and now you dont even see Abdiel become Fallen she just does it off screen.
Probably the most disappointing part for me is that the new nahobino form was revealed prior to launch. It ruined probably the biggest part of the story being that Aogami dies, and it was pretty obvs Tsukuyomi so it also suggested Yuzuru would die. I kept telling myself that surely they would only reveal that form if its not the only new one, and I was wrong. They spoiled an importsnt late game plot twist for no fucking reason.
As for gameplay its a straight improvement, I particularly like Shinjuku area (though Chiyoda was one of my favs so its a sad loss for Vengeance route) and the demon haunts are amazing. I grew very attached to my Vouivre. I also love the option to turn off certain map icons, I turned off all the collectibles basicslly so the areas were a lot more fun to explore. The only gameplay change I dIslike, and I think was unnecessary, was the fact that Abscesses dont cloud the map anymore. I think its a stupid change that just makes it so theres less incentive to clear them, whereas previously they felt necessary.
Great video really appreciated the no spiilers
shoutout brazli i love vengeance
Come to Daat
Come to empyrean
Macca finished the SMT:VV just in time for Metaphor to be released! Yay!
А вы знали, что новая версия Нахо-хихо кричит "Гойда!", когда выигрывает. Нахо - *НАШ* 🇷🇺🐻
Smt 5 Vengeance is my favorite rpg. The music, art direction, gameplay, story made it a treat to play. Now if we could get cross save feature.
I'm on my first play through still. It's awesome! I got the physical copy cuz the case is cool.
can you put a scheduled video for two years from now so i can set a reminder
This game is incredible, no question asked, and rivals with DeSu1 as my second favorite title in MegaTen (DeSu2 sits at the top)
The gameplay is absurdly fun and the new skills just increase the freedom you have in building MC and how to approach battles. I used a hyper offensive playstyle along with items to waste bosses as quickly as I could, while other people on YT went for a more defensive comp, others ran mixed approaches and they were all viable.
The details, oh my sweet god the details. I didn't expect Alice to recognize MC's change, yet she said "Why do you have that mask?", like they didn't have to put an optional conversation for a specific demon yet they did.
But probably my favorite aspect, big spoilers ahead
NO. NEUTRAL. ENDING! That's a huge positive as neutral is almost always the path with the most positive aspects to it (looking at you SMTIV), now that it doesn't exists, both Law and Chaos are viable options for the story, and both have their cons, probably a first for the mainline series.
I am working through Vengeance, but it is an amazing balance of everything. I think Demon Haunts are essential to that balance. I think that is what makes it so great. It is kinda a jack of all trades done to near perfection. I also didn't complete Creation, but that certainly felt rushed, and it wasn't balanced.
Ye SMTVV is on my top 10 favorite mainline smt
Dante best girl 💜
8:40
I LOVE THIS SCENE!!!!
I was like "Wait... my drip... WHERE'S MY DRIP!?!?!?"
Where's ATLUS USAWEST Macca?! What have you done to him?
in my case Chiyoda is my favourite Dungeon don't care what anyone says about it, a dark and gritty Demon and Angel Warzone it doesn't get much better than that for me, doesn't help that its missing in Canon of Vengeance, Shinjuku is still an incredible replacement and i love it to death though, Shakan however is my Favourite new Dungeon of Vengeance, just can't get over how calming and atmospheric it is and the new Puzzles are chaotic and fun
but yeah i recently beat Satan which took me 2 months of prep and im almost 600 hours in Vengeance, still my favourite game of all time just like OG was, along side P3, though Vengeance Story is like 10 times better than OG among other better things, the biggest addicting thing for me is the New Form and its battle theme with Omnipotent Succession, as i love to stare at Atlus' Unique Skill Animations getting to spam the same Skill 4 times as it tears apart Demons is like a dream, at some point i'll even attempt to put down Satan with an 4 time Aramasa spam Build
right now im doing 4 runs of of Canon of Creation though from scratch which is lacking Omnipotent Succession, and you know playing a more lacking version of the game, but the plan is to do some Heavenly Ikuyumi Builds, one extra with Divine Arrowrain mixed in, that should give some Vengeance feel, though i actually hate Heavenly Ikuyumi's animation because Nahobino's not doing anything at the beginning animation to look at, but the lack of Omnipotent Succession might make it feel better since i don't stare at it 4 times, first Run in already complete at least with a Thalassic Calamity Build i never used in OG, still redoing these in Canon of Vengeance with Omnipotent Succession
Shout out to Brazil
6:48 i've seen a lot of people saying that the new endings are determined by choices you make throughout the journey, but i don't think that's 100% the case, i think you can get a different ending by choosing different dialog choises, it's a bit less obvious than the ones in Canon of Creation but i think it still works the same, i made choices not based in a single alignment but in the end i got chaos aligned, at first i got the chaos ending, then i reset it, a few different dialog choices later in the ''choosing between Tao or Yoko cutscene'' and i got the law ending
It 100% works off alignment. If you go to tokyo you can check your alignment based on which way the marker spins, you were probably neutral and were close enough in alignment to one side that you could flip between either one.
Its like how in 4 its possible to be so neutral at a certain point in the game that no matter what choices you make you will only get chaos or law.
@@louish5068 hmm...i guess that makes sense, i was going for a more neutral path ( even though there is no neutral ending, didn't know at the time ) but the weird thing was that my marker was counterclockwise instead of just standing still, but it is instreting to know that going for a more neutral aligment in CoV can get you either ending, i think more people should know that, but in that case i still wonder if the dialog choices don't really influenced in some way or if really is random, because at the time i test it out it really seemed like a minor dialog choice really changed everything, or i guess i jusk got lucky
@@Guilherme_908 If you're Neutral when you go into the alignment lock, you get a special dialogue option to tilt you either way since there's no Neutral ending to be had. It's also the only way for Danu to appear in CoV, if you take Maria's quest before the alignment lock (something you can only do in CoV). But many people won't get that because there's basically no reason to track one's alignment in this game, and especially no reason to deliberately aim for Neutral.
100% with you!
I'm just glad SMT is still so cool! god review
I always find funny when people says that CoV has a much better story than CoC as if CoC had any story at all. The double of 0 is still 0...
Fr dawg, I know macca is a positive guy so this isn't so surprising, but man I did a quick literary analysis on coc and compared it to SMT 3 and wow, it was just bad. Barely any political motivations for any character(towards the end is slightly better). Most biased story in megaten...ever? Smt3 had a chaos start but even that was better handled. Characters are as wooden and bland as you can possibly make them. The story demons are so....meh, even 3 had better story demons than this. The pacing is god awful as well, feels like a persona game with an SMT coat of paint. 4 shits on coc, haven't played vengance but hopefully it's ok....if anything it'll be fun to see what changed.
@@iansantiago6526 CoV is a VAST improvement over CoC
the characters are far better and the story demons are really fun and sometimes even pretty deep(miyazu and khonsu are some of my favorite characters in the series now) and the plot is pretty solid, though i feel it drops off a little bit after shinjuku
@@emperortoho That's sad to hear but hey It's a nice change of pace. I like the wizard girl of the Quaditsu, absolutely love her design. Good to hear it is indeed an improvement!!!
I can only agree. I thought nocturne was fun but i am so far going through every route on 2 different save files one starting with canon of creation and the other with canon of vengeance. This is my 3rd run of the whole game and i am still not bored. (Should i seek help?)
It's back to SHOUNEN
yes
Of course it's a God Game! There are Gods in it!
If I’m being honest, I will miss the re-releasing of games.
It was more than added content. P4G and P5R are better than the originals, mostly for things that aren’t the extra story arc.
I am still playing the game.....on my 8th play through.
Also buffing Tao and nerfing Idun makes Tao and super Tao’s character seem less of punishment. You actually care about her because she wasn’t constantly benched.
It’s pretty weird that making a character more functional was actually a way to save her character. She’s the proof for the Stormwind Fallacy.
I think Spencer Presley said it, but I would have liked both routes to be just one and change depending on your individual choices and gameplay. Missed opportunity ig
They really fixed everything wrong with the story by adding yuri, god bless.
CoV is the same exact story but with qadistu replacing the (admittedly worthless) rando bosses like sutr and ishtar.
Beelzebub and Baal are treated as different characters, have ZERO interaction or a part in the greater story at large when they're canonically more important than 99% of other demons.
dlc demon (sakuya) completely breaks the game.
"unique" spells from mid game (level 42 is mid game) almost required to parse super bosses, idun danu and demeter do not need to be in every boss killing party.
oh and somehow after re-release this mid still has LESS demons than IV, a fucking ds game.
That's cause IV used unanimated 2D sprites compared to V fully 3D models that all scale in different sizes in the over-world.
@@joebgreen9639 Vengeance has 276 demons and a 30gb install size, P5R has ~232 demons at 40gbs.
Atlus can add more demons. Sprites in IV absolutely are animated, Shemyaza does the thug shaker.
beat the game and am almost at 100% completion but godborn is a mffff
When SMTV came out, I didn't even finish it. I just was so underwhelmed. But I'm on my 4th playthrough of Vengeance, getting all the endings and being completely obsessed. Easily my favorite SMT game now and I'd say its tied as my favorite Atlus game with Persona 4 Golden.
I heavily disagree with Yoko being a good alignment rep.
She doesn’t make me feel like the chaos route was a good choice on any level.
“Shes like a 14 year old edgy kid and I love her for it.” Well ok if you like that then sure, I personally was laughing when she told Tao she needs to be ready to kill bullies.
Visually she looks great, and her role helps Tao a lot. I would never say she is as good of a chaos rep as Jonathan for example. Where he wants to dismantle the structure for a relatable reason. Yoko just betrays you, and then at the very end of the game does her doe eyes at the protag and expects you to have a reason?
The problem with the base game is that it tried way to hard to be like nocturne.
I think you meant Walter, not Jonathan
@@maverick5169 i mean jonathan does start to become a chaos rep until the lilith incident lmao
Ehh
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Fallen off
So I paid for a BETA!? 🥲 this is why ima wait for Metaphor to get the Re-Refantazio version in 3 years lmao