Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
The Danger of Denying Works (w/ Pat Abendroth) | Theocast
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 гру 2022
- On today's episode, Jon and Justin are again joined by Pat Abendroth, pastor of Omaha Bible Church and cohost of The Pactum. In the second of two conversations on the covenant of works, the guys consider the implications of the covenant works. Does it really matter if one affirms the covenant of works? What are the dangers of denying it? In particular, the guys focus on how an understanding of the covenant of works relates to our understanding of the work of Christ, the gospel, and assurance of salvation.
Semper Reformanda: Jon and Justin talk with Pat Abendroth about the wreckage produced by a denial of a covenant of works/covenant of grace framework. We see this wreckage all around us in our day.
SUPPORT Theocast:
theocast.org/g...
FACEBOOK:
Theocast: / theocast.org
TWITTER:
Theocast: / theocast_org
Jon Moffitt: / jonmoffitt
Justin Perdue: / justin_perdue
INSTAGRAM:
Theocast: http: / theocast_org
RELATED VIDEOS & RESOURCES
Our teaching series on covenant theology: theocast.org/i...
Our episodes on the implications of the covenant theology: theocast.org/u...
Our episode "I Just Believe the Bible": theocast.org/i...
The Pactum Podcast: www.thepactum....
I thank God for you two. I see the faithfulness of God before me that He still sends workers in His harvest all glory to Christ!
Content has changed many lives. Jon and Justin, please give each other more lights for Christmas 🎄 😮
These two episodes were so good to listen to.
Q: Do Christians ever need to examine themselves?
Yes! They are in unrepentant sin
Can you explain the Calvinistic interpretation of: Not that I have already grasped it all or have already become perfect, but I press on if I may also take hold of that for which I was even taken hold of by Christ Jesus. Brothers and sisters, I do not regard myself as having taken hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Therefore, all who are mature, let’s have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that to you as well; however, let’s keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.
Excellent. Thank you so much.
Great discussion and explanation.
Thank you, Brothers, this was excellent!!!
Thanks!
Great show brothers, keep up the great work to proclaim rest in Christ!
Thanks!!!
Another great episode! As always, the guardrails of confessionalism protects us from the inconsistencies of biblicism and pietism.
Regarding why people feel the need to say "but don't forget works!"
It is, with certainty, a response and reaction to progressive Christianity in our culture. Sometimes it is even explicitly so. That's why it surged in popularity in the last 50 years- as a popular response to the sexual revolution and its dastardly consequences.
Progressive christianity (an oxymoron perhaps) is frustrating. But we cannot therefore make the gospel into a gospel of works. The burden is easy, the yoke is light.
Works are NOT works of the true standard of the law, for Christian living but works of being profitable and godly fulfilment with the help of grace. . Respectfully . .
God required Man to Love HIM with all His mind sole spirit in the Mosaic covenent to put everyone under disobidience so only Jesus would be capable of doing that and setting it aside!
In new Reality pass the cross, we are Loved By God and we become Objects of Love and assistence from the Spirit so that the New creation spiritual being would get all the nutritions and sustenance from the Source..
The part I don't understand is these "fruit-checkers" will send people to hell so easily. Let's say someone is smoking cigarettes and swearing.. someone might say they are unsaved. But what if a week ago they were a heroine addict and just got saved? That's why looking at our works,,, never WORKS! Our inward work sometimes isn't obvious to others. Also, people have a different opinion of what Christians should look like based on their idea of a good Christian.
Respectfully, I want to share this quote from the late Herman Hoeksema who authored, Reformed Dogmatics. After very close scrutiny he came to the conclusion that this notion of CofW was an erroneous view. These (from pgs. 308-312) summarise his carefully developed analysis and arguments. However, this does not mean that Adam did not stand in a covenant with God. He most certainly did!
1) It finds no support in the Word of God, but is an unwarranted deduction from God’s command to Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
2) The covenant of works postulates a period of probation for Adam, at the end of which he would have received eternal and heavenly life, but this is impossible for man except through Christ (I Cor. 15:47). Also the concept of Adam’s entering eternal life in heaven has imbedded in it the idea of merit, a notion abhorrent to Reformed theology (Luke 17:10; Rom. 11:35).
3) This view raises other problems: How long was the probationary period? Would Adam have entered heaven with all his posterity? What would then happen to the earthly creation in which Adam was prophet, priest and king?
4) The covenant of works makes the covenant between God and Adam something incidental to Adam’s creation, for it was added to Adam after his creation. What was Adam’s relationship to God prior to this covenant?
5) If one looks at the whole concept from the viewpoint of God’s sovereignty and wisdom, His original intention in establishing a covenant of works with Adam ended in failure and God found it necessary to resort to another plan to accomplish salvation...
"Adam was a covenant breaker and the entire human race broke God’s covenant in Adam. But God sovereignly and wisely, for the sake of the realization of His own purpose, moved Adam aside to make room for the second Adam, our Lord Jesus Christ. In Him, God’s grace is fully revealed and the riches of God’s covenant, greater than they ever could be in the first paradise, are lavished on the elect church for whom Christ died, the head of the true human race."
(This came from an article found on prca website and offered a far more better explanation
good stuff
From Gods reality
He says there is OLD and New
two covenents
Jeremiah 31:31-34
Acts 8
Hebrew 8
"" the covenant or the Will of a dying Man"""
The ultimate will of the Father to His Son!!!
The Son as Moses was given chance to stand aside and from Him a new humanity would be made....
But the Son decided to fight
Win
Over come
Isayah 49:25 the Tyrant and free the fallen spiritually dead humanity
The Son chooses to battle the Enemy, To go into the House of the strong, take the weapon away which was the Writings against us as the Law was impowering those debts"" Jesus took the weapon away nailed the debts to the cross
Over came
Let the captives free
And left Us A Will and anyone who Chooses to Kiss the Son, believe on to the works of the Son will be adopted into Gods Family by becoming a Child....
Err co err with Jesus
We all are Jesuses booty
He Battled for Us
All
The whole world
Was freeed from Sins and debts
But only those who choose to Believe ...
Surrender
To Grace
Mercy
"""""" Gospel"""""""""
This Gospel is now Empowered
Has Enough Energy bestowed upon it
To resurrect Spiritual humanity
.......
New reality
Post
Cross
The will
Becomes Active After the Death
Of the testator
New reality is simple
Beautiful
""" trust""" believe the Finished work of Jesus
Rest- abide on the Wine- the choice wine that produced the two fruites the father was looking for
1. Justice
2. Righteousness
Isayah 5:1-7
Jesus became that choice vine
And shilo binds His ass and young ass to His choice wine
Jesus produced these two fruites
And we Rest in His finished work
Aftet He said
"""" it is Finished"" paid for"""
What was finished was
Danial 9:24
ZacharaY 3:9
Leviticus 23:11
And much more
Now the new reality consists of
No more sins
No more confemnation
No more guild
No more fear
Live
Love
Be loved by Your God
And allow Him to Feed you from His spirit
As the Fruit of the spirit feeds you first
You are fed by Him
Loved by Jesus
Helped by the Helper
""" now you get to be The Belowed of God"""""
You do not love God as the demand or law or criteria
You are loved by him
The LAW never promised Nothing Spiritual! It delt with flesh, to condemn- letters written on stone as service of condemnation of Flesh for Wanting to Live according to the Knowledge of Good evil to Be like God!!
The law if anyone would to obey all at all times would maximum grant you what????
Deuteronomy 28
Fleshly benefits
But the curses ohh read the curses
The law was given to:
Reveal sin
Multiply sin
Make sin more sinful
To show shadows foreshadowings like Peter seeing clean and unclean animals " God said" what i have Clensed- meaning now all are clensed forgiven
Because Exodus 32:20 and 13:13 was fulfilled because God gave ransom to purchase the unclean animals whos life was worthless unless a ransom was paid
But even that only provided " clensing of sins" 2 corinth 5:19
All world is Forgiven- purchased out! But now people have to Choose to Believe the Gospel to recieve the Gift of the holly spirit... freely
Redemption by blood
Romans 5:6-10
But salvation- restorartion of life through the holly spirit which Adam LOST when He Disbelieved God
God was dealing with 2 problems
1. Sin
2. Everlasting death
Adam Had Glory! Spirit of God Breath of God was in Adam making Him a living sole....
"" all fell short of Glory!!"""
God wants to restore Glory...
Death of Jesus forgave desteoyed all sins of all people making all Be Forgiven past present future
So that..
After you accept the Goos news realizing the bad news first ofcourse...
The spirit of God is restored into YOU
And There remains no more sin which could Kill you again as accorrding to the Law of Sin and death given to Adam, if you sin again you would die..
Thats why Jesus had to forgive all people
So that after they get Resurected through faith , by the power of the Gospel, now no one will ever die spiritually again
Because
There is no more sins.........
God holds no more sins against people
Now the gosple is the criteria
You obey to believe tge finished work
Yoy rest in Jesus
Or You remain to Be dead but forgiven and you will go to hell because The Gospel who ever Declines the Gift of Holly spirit will stay Dead!!!!
The law prophets the Book of the Law moses prophets all
Was dealing with Issue of Flesh
"" can the Flesh Live according to the knowledge of Good and evill and Become Gods"""satanic lie
God helped humanity
He revealed all that is good and evil
And allowed them to try it out, to live according to the " tree of knowledge" the law
To show all that it is imposible because no one could be
GOD or as Perfect as God
So the Law was tempruary from moses to until the coming of the seed Jesus
You hear the words...
Its tempruary from Moses when transgression multiplied until the coming of the seed to whom the promises were made....
As law all of it was weak... it was weak because of us
Jesus fulfilled it
Set it aside
Replaced it by something Greater
"""" grace""""
God made a covenent with Him self
As He couldnt swear by no one higher he Goes into a covenent with Him self and fulfills both sides in Him self.....
Also doing what law demanded
1. Total obidience
2. Death
He obeyed and died on our behalf as with Him all we died through agreeing with the law that we are siners, we died to the law...
Our nature adams flesh was cut away by that death...
And allowed us New Us to be born...
Now we have nothing to do
With NO law
Moses
Noone
We are Free under the Mount of Zion the mother of all Free Children of God, and those who are under Sinai are slaves to the Flesh
Law is for Flesh for Descendent s of Adam earthly...
Law never had no promises for the spiritual being
Jesus Brough a new reality that Deals gives Spiritual Reality
And
Now we can be loved by Our God
And the Fire of His breath will not consume US
As He dwells in Us forever
Please recommend the best Bible translations that are accurate.
ESV
Brothers, the Mosaic Law was NEVER considered to be a covenant of works; such a notion is read into the scriptures - because this particular law given to Israel and was never expected to be obeyed entirely concerning God for the sinner would have had to obey the entire law to be made right with God and obtain eternal life. Even the Law written upon the heart of sinful man could never be obeyed fully nor lead to life. The Law simply pointed out our sin and was a tutor that led to Christ and His righteousness. The Law is not of Faith. Man is justified by grace through Faith; even apart from the Mosaic Law such as Adam was. Adam NEVER belonged to nor was under the Mosaic Law as to live by it. The Law was given to the unrighteous. Pre-fall; Adam was without sin - so why in the world would he be obligated to obey such a Covenant? The command of the Lord to Adam was also pre-fall and before his eyes were open to both good and evil. You are conflating the Law given to Israel with the unique command given to Adam in the Garden. There is no such thing as a "covenant of works".
Was Demas saved ?
I am sad to see bright fellows who are stumbling because of their own theological history! Because they are not able to see straight because of all the " grids" theological non sense which was made up by their rabbi and the rabbi before them... and they keep quoting
All the works of the previous
And hundred of years ago some yahoo had it wrong now these guys are suffering..
That is what happens when simplicity of The Gospel evades you
And when you try to make a living by being a teacher of the blind
Blind lead blind
Brothers, the Law (bad news) should precede the Gospel or pave the way for the (good news) of the Gospel. The Law was given to a rebellious people (1 timothy 1:8-11). Furthermore, even the Law that's written upon man's heart is in regards to those born after Adam and after the fall; his posterity. Pre-fall Adam was not in need for neither bad news or good news - he was created upright and already in good standing and enjoyed fellowship with God. So why would Adam be under a covenant or obligated to obey any Covenant such as the Mosaic Law that's associated with sin and rebellion if he had not disobeyed God and was not found to be in sin in the garden pre-fall as of yet? There is no such thing as a "covenant of works" regarding Adam.
I haven't watched the video, but my understanding is that Adam was not under any covenant except, '"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat". That was his covenant of works. It wasn't 'keep the law and live' but 'don't do this one thing and live' As long as he didn't do that one thing, things were good. To maintain his relationship with God, this one thing was required of him.
Under the law, in order to be justified by it, one must keep it without fail. One mistake and it's all over. As a born again beleiver, it's all faith. Romans 4:5 - "And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness," source:BibleGateway
Adam didn't need any type of justification from God before he disobeyed; he was already in right standing before God. God's command to him was simply a command not a "covenant". If Adam disobeyed (which he did) then there was consequences resulting from his disobedience to God's command, not covenant. Adam was judged in regards to his disobedience to God's "unique" command toward Adam alone (romans 5:14). Adam's transgression is not like the transgression of those born after him because the command God gave Adam to obey apart from any sin was ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than the command God gave Israel while they were deep in sin. God's command towards Adam did not point out his sin (for there was none) unlike the purpose of the Mosaic Law; Adam had no sin prior to his fall. There is NO covenant mentioned in the scriptures at all in regards to Adam; this teaching is unbilical. The consequences that came to Adam regarding his disobedience was not a result of his so called "works" but rather his disobedience involving that one unique command. We can't disobey God in the same manner that Adam did regarding the Tree of Life. Gentiles disobey God regarding the Law that's written on their hearts and Israel disobey God concerning the Law written on tablets of stone. Nonetheless, Adam was neither under a Law written on his heart OR the Law written on stone tablets because this Law came for all those born from Adam and after his fall in light of those after Adam possessing the knowledge of good and evil. After the fall; every human being can rightly be condemned due to mere "works" of the flesh apart from Christ righteousness. However, the command from God to Adam to "keep" the Garden was a "work" not carried out in sinful flesh but from a nature that had not been tainted by sin as of yet. Therefore it wasn't Adam's "works" that brought about God's judgment upon Adam but simply deviation from what God had plainly spoken to Adam by way of command. Unless you want to attribute "eating" and "listening to his wife" ( genesis 3:11 and 3:17) as a work but that would be a stretch. Point being, there was no "covenant of works" that was involved for Adam didn't disobey regarding any "works" but rather simply "eating" from a tree that was forbidden and "listening" to his wife.
@@BornTwyce4 I can see what you're saying to some extent, but something was required of Adam to stay in right relationship with God. Something was required of those under the law. If one placed themselves under the law, they were obliged to keep it in its entirety. That was not the point though, the point was to show you your need of the promised Messiah. Anyway, point being, God's 'covenant' with Adam was 'don't do this one thing and live'