Another fellow Canadian here from Langley, BC! Have an M48 in 8MM….missed out on all the Russian capture K98’s. They had boxes of them for $499 not long ago….now $1500 and up!
Forgotten Weapons isn’t really a hunter I don’t think but a Forgotten Weapons-Ron Spomer podcast episode collaboration is a THING that we NEED!!!!😅 Their mutual knowledge of SO much firearms history in my opinion would make a FANTASTIC podcast!!!
I used to hunt with an 8mm Mauser for deer and elk in the early and mid-70s. The 8mm had a short barrel and was great for dark timber when hunting both animals.
Hi Ron, I believe that the prevailing wisdom among blacktail hunters up here in the Pacific Northwest is that there is tons to eat for deer due to our milder temperatures and abundant rain. This is often proposed for one of the reasons that blacktail deer are so private and challenging to pattern. It's because they can afford to live large periods of their lives in very small areas due to the abundant food supplies.
i agree. i live in PNW as well. there are 3 separate groups of blacktail that only wander the 75 acres behind my house. i see them all daily. There is so much to eat, they never leave
I live in the Willamette Valley of Oregon. I do a lot of scouting. Blacktail are private by nature already. The bucks get that way to an extreme as they age and I have yet to scout a buck that doesn't dramatically change his patterns from spring to summer to fall, and winter. The bucks tend to change their patterns going to and from forage for no apparent reason.
The 8x68S was developed in the 30's and is a Magnum cartridge with a bigger (rim- and beltless) base diameter, it's performance is above .300 Winchester Magnum. 8x60S and 8x64S have same base diameter as 8x57IS and were used also for hunting purposes. And all this 8mm, except the 8x68S were out too in the .318 diameter, that was that civilian thing after WW1. They are stamped without "S", 8x57I, 8x57IR (rimmed), 8x60 and so on. So if you have an old german civilian hunting rifle, it is important you check your bore diameter. In hunting course they tell sometimes "S" stands for stark "strong", that's wrong, but a good way to remember which one is the bigger bullet diameter.
The JS designation is the.323 dia. which is dangerous to shoot in in the older.318dia. bore. Anyone that picks up an 8mm needs to verify the bore before shooting!!
Yes, WE do 8mm Rem mag & the 325WSM these are USA caliber and they are very powerful they just didn't take off because of the metric sizing but will handle any game animal in AMERICA and most African game, I use it and works great just alittle tough to find at times. Aim small good hunting and GOD bless.
I have a 8mm magnum and it is a fantastic rifle. Only problem is that it is impossible to find any bullets for it. I'm down to my last 4 cartridges. I've been lucky enough to drop the last 4 moose I got with 1 bullet. I am looking for some help or any suggestions on what I can do to acquire bullets or is it possible to use a different bullet in my barrel. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated thanks
@scottbrunette8366 I have a question: Do you use factory ammunition or hand load ? I can help you with bullets if you hand load, they are .323 195 grn Hornady IL bullets they are a good bullet and just pay the current price. I can let you have a box of 100. Just let me know, and we can work something out. Aim small good hunting GOD bless.
Hallo Ron I have a South African reloading manual before me the 8×68 is a real powerhouse 170 grain bullet going at 3087 feet per second and 200 grain at 2956 feet per second and 220 grain at 2809 feet per second I did pick up a 8×60 cassing at our shooting range I think that's the way they got past the restrictions on the 8×57 I have seen advertisements for 8×64 Brennecke ammo that should also be a good one greeting from South Africa
I had a 8mm/338. Not sure if it had a wildcat name, but you could use 375 H&H or 8mmRem brass and fire form it. It was no problem to throw 250 grain bullet over 3000 ft./s. It was an animal, but it would shake your feelings loose so I got rid of it. I wish I had it back. It had an Ackley style type shoulder on it to.
@@capt.america6296 I did a 338 x 8 mm mag and velocity was very close to a 340 WBY , recoil was substantial . Got about 3000 fps from a 225 gr bullet !
I have an 8X57 JS Sporterized and an 8mm Rem Mag. I handload for both but the factory ammo is pretty good. The 8mm RM is a horse, I have killed 2 Nilgai and a couple of deer with it no problems. The 8x57 is a sweet rifle, perfect deer or black bear rifle. I know the 325WM was popular for a while.
Remington made a Model 700 Classic in 2003-04 chambered in 7.92x57mm. I hunted with surplus 8mm Mausers for many many years. I still use my Remington Mod 700 in 8mm Mauser, not exclusively, but several times each season. It will bring home the venison as reliably as anything.
Hi Ron, you can better compare the 8x68s with the 300WM. It is actually a true magnum without a belt. It is waaay more powerful (over 4000J up to 5000J @ the muzzle) than a 30-06 and was originally designed for hunting plains game in old German colonies in West Africa where it is still popular today. Especially for reloaders an interesting cartridge. Kind regards from Switzerland and thank you for your highly appreciated content
Of course it depends on bullet weight. Here are the loads I currently use. 30/06 = 4208J. 300 win mag = 5345J 338 win mag = 5437J Hope this helps. I use 338 win mag too so I included it as well.
Hello, Indeed 8x68s is a true magnum without a belt 👍🏻 Here in Romania is used for the big wild boars, mountain goats and other big games. I have 8x68s from Steyr and is amazing..
Mr. Spomer, you mentioned the 7mm coming up. A lot of information on the older 7mm Brenneke (7x64 and 7x65R) is based on the 100+ year old design information, but looking at this cartridge, using modern powders and long-for-caliber, high-BC bullets, really shows how much of a genius Mr. Brenneke was - same for modern loadings of the 280 AI. All of them are in my very humble opinion, great rounds for hunting. Again, thank you for providing high quality and interesting content for us hunters and shooters. Best, /Soren
Like to see a 8mm compared to the 30-06 video. I own a k98 in the 8mm. It's a great rifle and the history behind that mod 98 from 1939 makes it even better shooting it. Especially since it's still in its military configuration!
Lots of GIs brought back K98s and couldn't find ammo for them. They had them rechambered in 8mm.'06. which was slightly ballistically superior to the .30'06.
34:00 we have reached the point in history where it is no longer acceptable to "sporterize" antique arms such as the K98 and others(technically in the C&R class of arms). If you want one sporterized, you can buy the sporterized ones on the cheap, because historians and collectors don't care about them. Some are really well done, others the hack saw marks are obvious. Either way, if you want to chop down the stock, or shorten the barrel, or drill and tap it for a scope, or bed the action, then get one that's already been sporterized, and save the original historical pieces for future generations.
Thanks for explaining the use of an adjustable sling to control length of pull. That's exactly how I manage it. Regarding, 40 caliber ammo, seems to the the .41 caliber is the closest substitute. The first .41 caliber round was developed in 1863.
I have been hunting with 8mm mauser for a while now. Best cartridge I've ever used for whitetail. I've never have had one run off when shot. They always drop dead where they are.
Interesting comments on the 8x57. I have owned a couple of 8x57 Mauser and taken quite a few deer with them. I have settled on a sporterised G33/40 8mm K98 carbine. These were originally issued to paratroopers and alpine troops and were made in the Brno factory in Czechoslovakia. The barrel is mint, outstanding accuracy, powerful and a pleasure to shoot. I was really lucky to pick it up 2nd hand at a bargain price. Mint barrel. Sure it’s not as fancy or flat shooting as my 3006AI custom but its still very good and handy for me. I use Normal 196 grain Vulcan ammo in it and it does fine. Great penetration and wound channel.
I've been using 8x57 mauser CZ 550 for many years. I've killed so many pigs that l can't remember the amount. I got the best results Norma Vulkan and Sierra Game King bullet.
I bought a 300 SAUM in 2005 (If I remember correctly). I got that over the 300 WSM because the Remington came in the Model Seven Magnum. Yes, I lost a little velocity with that 22 in barrel, but it exceeded the .30-06 and the WSM was in a 24” barrel. It is one of my favorite rifles. With a lighter 150gr bullet its very effective on dropping a deer very quickly with a lung shot. I hunt in Eastern North Carolina and in the early part of the season, if you do not drop them where they stand, or get a very good blood trail, the deer will be in very thick cover in 2 or 3 steps. If I was doing it all over again I would get the 300 WSM so I could have (almost) .300 Win Mag ballistics in a short action rifle.
I wouldn’t mind hearing more about old and obscure cartridges such as the .256 Newton. The history of how we got to where we are today regarding all products, especially those gun related, I find very interesting.
I think your intelligence, knowledge and urbane verbal capacity make your show absolutely unique. I always feel better educated from all the above plus your experience. Keep at it, if not as frequent offerings. You make me wish I had you guide me several decades ago.
Cupro nickel bullets were made / used by some countries years ago in mostly military type of ammo / calibers, and it did not seem to be detrimental to the bore of a rifle.
I harvested a couple moose with the 8mm rem mag, when i had the rifle i was using the 220 grain hornady at 2850 fps, long gone are the days of punishing my shoulder, but it was more than anything in this part of Canada
That's so great that you mentioned the hasty sling! I'm a former US Marine, and that's what we were taught to use. We used it in every shooting position with the M-16 A1 and the A2. I was in the Marine Corp in the early 80's. I can't imagine not using the Hasty Sling. It helps to stabilize the rifle so much, especially in the off-hand position. I've sent messages to Ian on Forgotten Weapons a couple of times trying to convince him to use the Hasty Sling. He just acts like a sling is only useful as a carrying strap. He hangs out with those Army guys too much. They're not taught to use the Hasty Sling. If you have the sling adjusted just right, namely if it adjusted perfectly for carrying the rifle on your shoulder, it'll be perfect for using as a Hasty Sling. Of course if you have it adjusted for using it on your bare arm, it will be different if you're wearing a jacket in cold weather. You have to re-adjust it for that. There's a former Marine that demonstrates how to use the Hasty Sling on UA-cam. Just search Hasty Sling. There's some on there that's not correct. The guy I saw doing it right had a AR-15 and says during the video that he was a Marine. He's showing how to use the sling beside his garage.
Hi Ron, the concern for nickel fouling might be its chemical resistance. Acid that destroys nickel will also destroy steel. Probably still not worth thinking about
I live in Germany and shoot my father-in-law's sporterized 8x57JS Mauser 98, and after decades of shooting .308 Win in the US, have come to really like the cartridge for boar, red deer, and roe deer. In fact, when my son obtained his German hunting license, we bought a modern Mauser M12 chambered for the same. We also have a Sauer & Sohn Drilling, which has two side-by side 16-gauge barrels up (one with a .22 Hornet insert), and a 7x57R under; this gun is a great all 'rounder.
As Ron stated, the WSM cartridges have slightly larger cases and tend to shoot factory ammo slightly faster (one article says 50 - 60fps) than the RSAUM cartridges. It is important to note that in 2002, when they were introduced, laser rangefinders were still uncommon and hunters preferred lighter bullets and flatter trajectory to 500 yards over the heavier, higher BC bullets used today. Many factory loads were only 150 to 165 grains. The RSAUM's shorter case allows longer, higher-bc bullets in a typical short action (2.86" OAL), so it can catch up and pass the WSM at longer range. The RSAUM series also has the more modern "match-style" chamber with a length of closely-toleranced freebore that tend to align bullets better with the bore. This is used on virtually all recent cartridges because it tends to provide overall better accuracy and be less picky at to which loads shoot accurately. The 300 SAUM chamber design gains even more in a longer action since it allow the bullet to be loaded much farther out of the case, gaining back some powder capacity and putting the shank of the bullet into the tight freebore to help align the bullet, as is done with modern precision cartridges like the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.8 Western, and the 6.5mm, 7mm, and 300 PRC cartridges. FWIW, when Winchester updated the 270 WSM into the longer-ranged 6.8 Western, it changed the chamber geometry to one very similar to the SAUM series.
My great grandfather had a 98 Mauser, in 8mm. Stamped on the top of it is the year 1942, four digit serial number as well, 7624, it has the German army eagle with the world in its claws. My grand father had it given to him and he handed it down to me. I have taken deer, bull moose and wolf with it. I have mostly 170 gr but have stepped up to a hand load of 200 gr nosler partitions. I shot a deer (buck) this past week with it and it was the only animal that went 20 yards and fell over dead. Everything else dropped in its tracks! My grandmother hunted as well and she knew this weapon well, i can still hear her saying to me, “when you hit something with that gun they just fall over”, lol, miss my grandparents they introduced me to hunting and trapping along with my dad. My favourite weapon of all!
Hey Ron, I had a interesting experience with hornady leverevolution ammo in a marlin 336w back in 2014. I shot a deer in the spine high and the gun wouldn't cycle through the next round... the deer suffered for some minutes before I got it freed up. Later I was able to replicate what had happened... the fort tip had wedged between the rim of the round in front and the magazine tube wall and bound er up so tight that the cartridge wouldn't pull out of the tube and the lifter was hung in place. All in all it was a real mess so I switched to old fashioned flat nose and never had that problem again. I do owe something to that experience though because I started playing with reloading the flat nose stuff afterwards and now I reload for many, many different guns and cartridges.
For the 40, I agree. There was the .401 WSL, which is a .406 bullet. I have a .351 WSL which is just a short 350 legend. Oh, and over 100 years older. Heheheh. I also have 3 8x57mms. 1 is made as a .323, the other 2 were made as .318 during WW I. One of those had the neck reamed and an expander button pulled through to make the barrel .323. The other has had the neck reamed but no expansion of the barrel. The two .318s were WW I rifles converted into sporting rifles with custom claw mount scopes and engraving as well as carved stocks. Really beautiful K98 reworks. They also hit deer like Thors hammer.
I hunted bench leg black tails in the 50’s and 60’s with my father in oregon and haven’t heard that name since then. Some back then would call them mule deer bench leg!
I often carried a Remington 700 in 8 mm Rem mag on my guide brown bear and Yukon moose hunts and loaded using Barns TSX 185 grain bullets it was just as deadly as a 340 Weatherby mag.
Where do you get your bullets from? I have a 8mm magnum custom barrel on a Browning synthetic x-bolt stock. Beautiful gun. Just wish I could find bullets for it
The civil replacement for the 8x57 was the 8x60. Both the 8x64 and 8x68 are a bit older. Brenneke did the 8X64 in the first world war and RWS did the 8x68 and 6.5x68 in the 1930ties. The 8x68 has only been available in the S version 0.323 bullets. The 8x68 nearly matches the 8 mm Rem. Magnum in performance, especially with heavy bullets, with a quite a bit smaller case capacity.
I see the 6×68 keeps getting compared to the 300 win mag but instead should be compared to the 8mm rem mag and the 325WSM, the 8mm rem mag and the 8mm × 68 have more power because of powder capacity and the 7mm STW came from the 8mm rem mag but my favorite is the 325WSM because of it's efficiency and I have most of the other one's as well one doesn't kill any faster than the other. Aim small good hunting,GOD bless.
So because of our tough East Coast whitetail deer the West Coast at least got some type of deer that was not there before. Yes our white tails are pretty frisky but we will accept a big thank you from all you West Coasters.
I know this thread is getting old, but definitely not stale. I love the 8mm family of cartridges. I have an 8x57 that is flat amazing on smaller bears, elk, and similar size game at closer ranges. The 8mm Rem Mag will take anything in North America and probably anywhere else if you load it right. The 160gr Barnes TTSX at 3700fps is a grenade!!!! I here a lot of people curse the 325 wsm, but I also normally hear them have some caveat. Out to 400 yards, it works great on whitetail, elk, mule deer, red stag, moose and a lot of other game. The 300 is more flexible, especially on smaller game, but if you have a 325, the hardest part is probably buying ammo if you don't reload. Otherwise, keep it!
I’ve taken at least 60 blacktailed deer and when I first read about the genetic study revealing the Blacktail are whitetail/mule hybrid I was not surprised because of the backtails flighty behavior. Behaviorally they are more like a whitetail than a mule deer. We were always told that Blacktailed deer were a subspecies of mule deer. We still buy a mule deer tag for hunting Blacktail here. They should have their own tag called the grey ghost species tag!
Up towards forks the Olympic Northwest alongthe Olympics.They brought Meal deer back In the 30s and bread, the meal deer and black tail to make the black tails bigger and the racks bigger. So I have shot several half breeds up in the olympic northwest towards Forks
Spire points CAN ignite a primer in the tube. Have actually seen it happen. Neighbor loaded his lever with spire points. Swore he'd done it for years. What he was actually doing was loading three and chambering one - i.e. only two in the tube. His reasoning was that's all he needed because if he'd missed twice, he didn't need to keep wasting ammo. One day, don't know why, but one day he fully loaded up. First shot and the tube exploded. He survived with all his body parts, but spent some time in the hospital. Very, very memorable for me as a second grader. So, "pooh-poohers" aside, it REALLY is a possibility with spire points. I've seen it. For 40 caliber, you have the old 38-40 WCF, which is a 401 diameter bullet. Doesn't utilize 50K psi, but it exists, and just like the 44-40, was once considered a good deer cartridge within its range limits. Steve's question is valid. For the cases, the only real disadvantage is fewer reloads. The nickel makes the cases a bit harder, and you will get split necks sooner than all brass. Underwood claims a better plating process which "fixes" that, but I don't know about that part. As for the bullets themselves, again valid. Federal has come out with their "Punch" series of calibers, and the BULLETS are also nickel plated. Performance is quite good, so this might catch on. However, what Steve is probably thinking of is the old "cupronickel" bullets, which DID, indeed, foul barrels. That's why things switched to guilding metal jackets. Still, those were mostly copper, so any copper removing cleaning method works. Don't know about Federal's nickel bullets, but they are different from the old cupronickel.
Hi Ron, big fan of your work have been addicted to these videos, very educational. Om from Victoria, Australia and I know you’ve done some travelling for your hunts. What I’m wondering is have you hunted the big old Sambar deer that we mainly have here in Victoria. If so would love to hear your general thoughts. Thankyou!
Ron, if you'd like to aswage the 8mil fellas, may I suggest covering the Remington 8mm magnum? Seems like a nice 8mm big game cartridge that never took off. It has some solid numbers behind it. Edit: looks like you did cover it.
Right, the big 8 was, or had the potential, to be a great cartridge. Sure it had a limited market back in 1978 (?) when it hit the market. I think Remington missed the market by only offering a 180gr and 220gr bullets. With a heavier bullet, 240gr-260gr, it would've smoked the 338 Win and hung with the 340 Weatherby. Sadly it's another case of Big Green getting bored with a fine cartridge and allowing it to whither on the vine.
*Easiest way to add length of pull for keeping thumb out of nose...... slip on or lace on recoil pads. The doubled up recoil pad system will feel different...and allow more compression of the rubber which allows more scope and rifle action travel to rear & toward eyebrow. So, with your magnums...scope to face can be a real possibility. Softer felt recoil with extra thick recoil pads... allows a longer recoil stroke... Thus, scope to face might happen. Keep that in mind when choosing iron sights or scope. Longer eye relief to keep the scope out of your head.... might be a good idea.*
Comparing cartridges, for the most popular I go to Nosler Load Data, Print out the ones you like and compare. Cartridges of the World covers most but some whithout the shematics. I don't go to SAMMI often to compare. To many meassurements
Hi, Ron. I recall reading some Elmer Keith books back in the day. He was apparently immune to recoil in any fashion, as some of his wildcat loads proved... but he was real hot on. 33 caliber slugs in a number of rifles he had built, I believe one was known as a .33-375 OKH rifle...gotta find his "Rifle Shooting" books again... Elmer and the ".44 Associates" pushed for the .44 Magnum, from the .44 Spl. cartridge, and he loved the bigger "mid - bore " rifle rounds as well...
Winchester silver tip 64gr 223 has a nickel plated jacket with a black polymer tip seated in normal brass. It is a great contrast to copper seated into nickel brass.
I bought an M48 Mauser for $190.00 at a gun show. Looked to be an unissued rifle. I was wanting a K98 but I bought the M48 because it was available. One of the nicest shooting rifles I've had the pleasure to to shoot. I've shot very tight 5 shot groups with 147gr , 196gr Surplus and lellier& bellot 196gr hunting ammo. Evert part was machined and the numbers match. I never imagined this gun would be such a great experience. With newer bullet designs, who knows what it is capable of ?
That's a steal nowadays for a clean M48. I paid that much for mine and it is not pretty. The Turks loaded 8mm pretty hot when those rifles were issued. It's been known to blow up machine guns. I'd wager some +p ammo would really wake up the cartridge if needed.
That chain reaction explosion has also happened with some 12ga shotgun slugs that had a pointy tip that protruded past the shell. They have been discontinued.
I've got an 8mm K98 from 1944 that was my grandfather's. It has all matching serial numbers but (unfortunately) was sporterized a long time ago. I've never harvested a deer with it, but many, many feral hogs.
Me, too. Mine was sporterized while they were still $49.95 in hardware stores. I've killed many feral hogs with mine. My grandfather bought it right after the war. He said he paid $12.00 for it.
Two subspecies of white-tailed deer are found in Oregon. There are populations of the Columbian white-tailed deer in the Umpqua River Basin near Roseburg and on a series of Columbia River islands in Oregon and Washington, and on the Oregon and Washington mainlands along the lower Columbia River. The other whitetail in Oregon is the Northwest whitetail that are found in Northeastern Oregon, particularly in Union, Wallowa, and Umatilla counties. These also occasionally interbreed with Mule Deer.
If you want a serious factory load for the 8x57 Mauser, try the Sellier & Bellot 196 grain load. From my 23.7" Husqvarna 1640, I measured 2600 fps with my Garmin chronograph. This velocity was measured in summertime. In cold weather, I am still seeing well over 2550 fps.
In regards to nickel jacketed bullets. The one I run into is the Turkish 8mm Mauser ammo. That ammo has a copper-nickle jacketed Bullet. The jacket is 80% Nickel and 15% copper and 5% other. Turkish model 1903 Mausers are notorious for having worn out barrels from shooting their nickel jacketed bullets. However Turkey, like many other thrifty countries, would use their rifles until the bullets shot sideways before decommissioning them. The Model 1903 Mausers were used heavily in World War I and World War II.
Ron, Remington chambered a 700 in 8mm . I saw one I didn't have enough cash on me at the time I regret not putting it on plastic. I did use an old Czech 98/22 hunting on a South Dakota West River deer hunt in Lyman county. I was fortunate to harvest a mature whitetail doe. There were two other hunters that seen me shoot this old Mil Surpl with open sights they couldn't believe it.
Hi there Ron. Like your content thanx a mil. On the 8x68a, bit of useless info, we did a chrono test with the powder we get here is South Africa, somchem S365 being a slow burner for the stuff like 338WM ect and we got a respectable 2940fps on a 26in barrel with a 180gr RWS bullet. So u can do the math on that energy. Pretty underestimated cartridge but damn a great gun. So it stacks up well with a 300WM. Thanks again for the videos. Always greatly!
We have plenty of Muleys in central British Columbia. I drilled one through lengthwise with my 8mm-06 this fall. Unfortunately the aggressive Whitetails push them out of some areas. They're both good eating!
Ron! You are wrong! Or close... I may be alone, but I'm interested in cartridges I've never heard of like the 2 56 Newton. Pull it into the mix and maybe someone will be interested in resurrecting it! Good show!
My 73-year-old dad called me up and wanted me to leave you a comment that the 9.3x57 and 8x57 Mauser aren't the same and can't share ammo. We're from the Black Hills (he said you used to live in SD) and he's a big fan of your show. It would make his day if you commented back! :) Thanks, Ron!
G.K.USA. I own 3 98k rifles and enjoy shooting theantm. I mounted a 3×9 scope on one of them using a cantilever mount. I did not want to alter the rifle in any way that would reduce it's value. I took the rifle to a 100 yard. Using Mitchell's Mausers match ammo, and Norma hot huntig loads. I shot the match ammo first. I shot.a 3 shot, 1" group. I could not bring myself to risk ruining the group by going for a 5 shot group. Then I tried the Norma 165 gr. Hunting load. I got another 1"group. 3 shots again. I still have that target after 19 years.
You've never come across a sporterized 8mm mauser? My dad has one that his dad brought bad from the war. I hear there were quite a few brought back and sporterizing them was a common thing. Unfortunately, this one's been sporterized, so it has a new stock and not the original bolt, but it's a cool gun, took my first two or three deer with it (before I inherited a 243)
Then there are a few wildcats, all on 06 brass,8mmo6,the ackley imp,then 8mm gibbs which i have,a very potent cart but most difficultcult to fire form,thank you very much for your videos
The fact that length of pull changes with wearing more clothes like an insulated jacket ,,is one piece of knowledge that is only learned by experience,,if a man is less than six foot tall and has on a thick jacket he never would need more than 13 and a half inches of pull on a rifle.
40 caliber is probably the 2nd most popular bullet size for muzzleloaders. 40 caliber in a sabot is used for 45 cal smokepoles. There's at least some bullet development.
Hi Ron I regularly write comments back to you on your different topics..I think you are a excellent gunwriter and are very knowledgeable and articulate in your views and the way you present them.however , I feel that you and most gunwriters have given the 8x57 a very cold shoulder.yes the cartridge was used against our troops in ww1 and ww2. This is not a reason to dislike or hate a cartridge. Handloaded to a safe maximum with a 200 gr Speer sp it is much more than a 308 with a 180 gr bullet.this diminutive cartridge is really the only 8mm magnum
Thanks Dino. Yes, the 8x57mm is a fine cartridge roughly on par with the 30-06, to which it is the parent, really. We largely copied from the 8x57 to make our 30-06. The 7x57 Mauser likely springs from it, too. But I don't give it the cold shoulder so much as ignore it altogether. But not out of any negative feelings toward it. It's just not a chambering I often stumble across. Few US made rifles are chambered in it. Anyone who finds it convenient to own and use an 8x57 Mauser should do so and enjoy. It will handle all game. I do not, agree, however, that it is an 8mm Magnum, let alone the only one. As one of the original 8mms dating back to 1888, it is the standard. Significantly higher velocity 8mms (.325" diameter bullets) like the 325 WSM and 8mm Rem Mag. would be considered true magnums (if there is such a thing.)
Thank you for replying. I've been roasted more than once for my view on the 8x57 and the 270 win which I also feel was a beltless magnum. When 1st released it smoked 3145 fps with a 130 gr bullet. Love old rifles .my longest shot on a elk was 285 paces with a peep sighted Yugoslavian mauser.200 gr Speer sp at 2489 fps.full penetration and drt.
Nice to hear the 256 Newton mentioned. He was quite a guy. The other thing he designed for Savage was the 250 Savage, i am pretty sure. Named the 250-3000 because it was the first mass commercial cartridge to achieve 3000 fps (but only with an 87 gr bullet). See, marketing hype is nothing new. I enjoy learning about vintage cartridges that in many cases were ahead of their time. The 280 Ross comes to mind in the same breath as the 256. I love the 8x57. Mine is the M48 Yugo Mauser. Got it in 2002 or 2003 i think, for 175. Very good condition, nice stock. I actually had that some years before i got an -06. Felt vaguely un-American. Lol. But i did already have 2 308's, a 30-30, and other stuff, so i was okay. Hard to beat, esp if u handload to its normal potential. Most factory ammo is downloaded in deference to old rifles and the . 318 bores that are still around. There is about half a thimble full of difference between it and -06 if you look at loading manuals. It is about as ubiquitous in Europe as the -06 is here. It always surprised me how many other countries used it as a military cartridge right after WW2, even in semiautos like the Hakim. I would think everybody would want to forget anything German. I guess that goes to show how good a cartridge it is. The only domestic rifle i can think of ever chambered for it is the Rem 700 Classic, only for 1 year of course. Wouldn't mind having one in any number of chamberings. The 6.5x55 would be nice (circa 1993, i think), so it could also be loaded to full ballistics. The lengthened 41 Mag is an interesting idea, similar to the 444 Marlin. Probably never happen, since we have the 444 and the 45-70. But it would be fun. Bullets up to 250 gr at good velocity. A friend of mine picked up a 6.5-06 a few months ago that has "ACKLEY" stamped on it. Not sure if Ackley built the rifle, or if it is an AI chamber. Don't think he has done any load development yet. Should be a good shooter though. Only wildcat i have is a 357 Herrett barrel for my Contender. Haven't done anything with it yet, but i plan some silhouette. I may get my 22 Hornet barrel reamed to K-Hornet at some point. Another wildcat that is interesting is 6.5 JDJ. Can't think of any wildcats in repeaters that i might want, but who knows. That is half the fun.
I recall that a lot of bullets from the latter part of the 19th century & the early part of the 20th century were made with "Cupronickel" jackets (a Copper/Nickel Alloy?). But I believe they were replaced by pure Copper because barrel fouling became a problem as velocities increased. I would think that implies that Cupronickel is softer than pure Copper.
I'm off topic, but you say to clean the gilding metal from the rifle barrel for best accuracy when shooting copper bullets. Most recommended solvents are for copper and carbon. Help!
I've got a sweet shooting CZ Brno M21 in 8x57 that loves to harvest game up here in Canada.
Best Rifle ever made.
Glad to hear that!
Greetings from Czech Republic 😊
Another fellow Canadian here from Langley, BC! Have an M48 in 8MM….missed out on all the Russian capture K98’s. They had boxes of them for $499 not long ago….now $1500 and up!
A hunting buddy took a big bull moose in NewBrunswick Canada this fall with that exact rifle /caliber . Great round
8x57 Zastava.
Old, cheap and works.
Military ammo, even.
Forgotten Weapons isn’t really a hunter I don’t think but a Forgotten Weapons-Ron Spomer podcast episode collaboration is a THING that we NEED!!!!😅 Their mutual knowledge of SO much firearms history in my opinion would make a FANTASTIC podcast!!!
I used to hunt with an 8mm Mauser for deer and elk in the early and mid-70s. The 8mm had a short barrel and was great for dark timber when hunting both animals.
I love my 8x57 rifle.❤️🐗🐗🐗🔥🔥🔥
Hi Ron,
I believe that the prevailing wisdom among blacktail hunters up here in the Pacific Northwest is that there is tons to eat for deer due to our milder temperatures and abundant rain. This is often proposed for one of the reasons that blacktail deer are so private and challenging to pattern. It's because they can afford to live large periods of their lives in very small areas due to the abundant food supplies.
i agree. i live in PNW as well. there are 3 separate groups of blacktail that only wander the 75 acres behind my house. i see them all daily. There is so much to eat, they never leave
I live in the Willamette Valley of Oregon. I do a lot of scouting. Blacktail are private by nature already. The bucks get that way to an extreme as they age and I have yet to scout a buck that doesn't dramatically change his patterns from spring to summer to fall, and winter.
The bucks tend to change their patterns going to and from forage for no apparent reason.
The 8x68S was developed in the 30's and is a Magnum cartridge with a bigger (rim- and beltless) base diameter, it's performance is above .300 Winchester Magnum. 8x60S and 8x64S have same base diameter as 8x57IS and were used also for hunting purposes.
And all this 8mm, except the 8x68S were out too in the .318 diameter, that was that civilian thing after WW1. They are stamped without "S", 8x57I, 8x57IR (rimmed), 8x60 and so on. So if you have an old german civilian hunting rifle, it is important you check your bore diameter.
In hunting course they tell sometimes "S" stands for stark "strong", that's wrong, but a good way to remember which one is the bigger bullet diameter.
I was hust gonna say mostly the same.
Good post man! ❤
Techincal !
Let's not forget 8mm js and the 8mm jrs shoots the 323 diameter bullet. Great rifle, great cartridge.
The JS designation is the.323 dia. which is dangerous to shoot in in the older.318dia. bore. Anyone that picks up an 8mm needs to verify the bore before shooting!!
The worst part about your videos is having to wait for the next one. Can't get enough!!!
Yes, WE do 8mm Rem mag & the 325WSM these are USA caliber and they are very powerful they just didn't take off because of the metric sizing but will handle any game animal in AMERICA and most African game, I use it and works great just alittle tough to find at times.
Aim small good hunting and GOD bless.
I have a 8mm magnum and it is a fantastic rifle. Only problem is that it is impossible to find any bullets for it. I'm down to my last 4 cartridges. I've been lucky enough to drop the last 4 moose I got with 1 bullet. I am looking for some help or any suggestions on what I can do to acquire bullets or is it possible to use a different bullet in my barrel. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated thanks
@scottbrunette8366 I have a question: Do you use factory ammunition or hand load ? I can help you with bullets if you hand load, they are .323 195 grn Hornady IL bullets they are a good bullet and just pay the current price. I can let you have a box of 100. Just let me know, and we can work something out. Aim small good hunting GOD bless.
Hallo Ron I have a South African reloading manual before me the 8×68 is a real powerhouse 170 grain bullet going at 3087 feet per second and 200 grain at 2956 feet per second and 220 grain at 2809 feet per second I did pick up a 8×60 cassing at our shooting range I think that's the way they got past the restrictions on the 8×57 I have seen advertisements for 8×64 Brennecke ammo that should also be a good one greeting from South Africa
The 8mm REM mag is one of Bodingtons favorite cartridges ! It’s the parent cartridge of the 7 STW a great cartridge !……. Thanks Ron .
I had a 8mm/338. Not sure if it had a wildcat name, but you could use 375 H&H or 8mmRem brass and fire form it. It was no problem to throw 250 grain bullet over 3000 ft./s. It was an animal, but it would shake your feelings loose so I got rid of it. I wish I had it back. It had an Ackley style type shoulder on it to.
@@capt.america6296 I did a 338 x 8 mm mag and velocity was very close to a 340 WBY , recoil was substantial . Got about 3000 fps from a 225 gr bullet !
The 28 inch barrel on his 8MM Rem Mag is too long.
@@craigleibbrand7761 I have a 29 inch barrel on my 7 STW with a brake , not long at all !…..
I have an 8X57 JS Sporterized and an 8mm Rem Mag. I handload for both but the factory ammo is pretty good. The 8mm RM is a horse, I have killed 2 Nilgai and a couple of deer with it no problems. The 8x57 is a sweet rifle, perfect deer or black bear rifle. I know the 325WM was popular for a while.
That 325 is liked in Alaska
@@billhatcher2984 I like my 325 wsm really well here in Wa as well.
Remington made a Model 700 Classic in 2003-04 chambered in 7.92x57mm. I hunted with surplus 8mm Mausers for many many years. I still use my Remington Mod 700 in 8mm Mauser, not exclusively, but several times each season. It will bring home the venison as reliably as anything.
Try norma oryx 196 grain.
@@robertpetersson5655 I've had more success with Hornady 150gr spitzers over the last 45 years.
I recommend Norma Tipstrike,Vulkan and Sierra Game King.
the 170 gr Speer has performed well in my 8x57
Hi Ron,
you can better compare the 8x68s with the 300WM. It is actually a true magnum without a belt. It is waaay more powerful (over 4000J up to 5000J @ the muzzle) than a 30-06 and was originally designed for hunting plains game in old German colonies in West Africa where it is still popular today. Especially for reloaders an interesting cartridge.
Kind regards from Switzerland and thank you for your highly appreciated content
Of course it depends on bullet weight. Here are the loads I currently use.
30/06 = 4208J.
300 win mag = 5345J
338 win mag = 5437J
Hope this helps. I use 338 win mag too so I included it as well.
Hello,
Indeed 8x68s is a true magnum without a belt 👍🏻
Here in Romania is used for the big wild boars, mountain goats and other big games.
I have 8x68s from Steyr and is amazing..
Mr. Spomer, you mentioned the 7mm coming up. A lot of information on the older 7mm Brenneke (7x64 and 7x65R) is based on the 100+ year old design information, but looking at this cartridge, using modern powders and long-for-caliber, high-BC bullets, really shows how much of a genius Mr. Brenneke was - same for modern loadings of the 280 AI. All of them are in my very humble opinion, great rounds for hunting. Again, thank you for providing high quality and interesting content for us hunters and shooters.
Best,
/Soren
Dont forget 9,3x64 brenneke. The original 375 ruger.
wow another Brenneke adherent.cool.7x64 is my favorite. one day I will pick up a 8x64s
Like to see a 8mm compared to the 30-06 video. I own a k98 in the 8mm. It's a great rifle and the history behind that mod 98 from 1939 makes it even better shooting it. Especially since it's still in its military configuration!
You’re a lot smarter than you give yourself credit for. Love the channel love the videos.
Lots of GIs brought back K98s and couldn't find ammo for them. They had them rechambered in 8mm.'06. which was slightly ballistically superior to the .30'06.
34:00 we have reached the point in history where it is no longer acceptable to "sporterize" antique arms such as the K98 and others(technically in the C&R class of arms). If you want one sporterized, you can buy the sporterized ones on the cheap, because historians and collectors don't care about them. Some are really well done, others the hack saw marks are obvious. Either way, if you want to chop down the stock, or shorten the barrel, or drill and tap it for a scope, or bed the action, then get one that's already been sporterized, and save the original historical pieces for future generations.
Nonsense
I have several 8MM Mausers. Can't go wrong,.
Thanks for explaining the use of an adjustable sling to control length of pull. That's exactly how I manage it. Regarding, 40 caliber ammo, seems to the the .41 caliber is the closest substitute. The first .41 caliber round was developed in 1863.
I have been hunting with 8mm mauser for a while now. Best cartridge I've ever used for whitetail. I've never have had one run off when shot. They always drop dead where they are.
Love 8mm. Own 2. Many hakims and mod. 48s came into the us back in the 90s. Tons of ammo as well.
The 8x68S is on par with the 300 Win Mag. It packs way more punch than the 30 06
No. The 8x68S is superior to the .300WinMag.
8x68s is faster and stronger then the 300wm, 🔥🔥
Until you try to buy ammo for it hahaha
@@AustrianJagerFrom what I've seen they shoot similar weight bullets at similar speeds. But the equivalent 30 cal bullets have better BCs and SDs!
Interesting comments on the 8x57. I have owned a couple of 8x57 Mauser and taken quite a few deer with them. I have settled on a sporterised G33/40 8mm K98 carbine. These were originally issued to paratroopers and alpine troops and were made in the Brno factory in Czechoslovakia. The barrel is mint, outstanding accuracy, powerful and a pleasure to shoot. I was really lucky to pick it up 2nd hand at a bargain price. Mint barrel. Sure it’s not as fancy or flat shooting as my 3006AI custom but its still very good and handy for me. I use Normal 196 grain Vulcan ammo in it and it does fine. Great penetration and wound channel.
I've been using 8x57 mauser CZ 550 for many years.
I've killed so many pigs that l can't remember the amount.
I got the best results Norma Vulkan and Sierra Game King bullet.
I bought a 300 SAUM in 2005 (If I remember correctly). I got that over the 300 WSM because the Remington came in the Model Seven Magnum. Yes, I lost a little velocity with that 22 in barrel, but it exceeded the .30-06 and the WSM was in a 24” barrel. It is one of my favorite rifles. With a lighter 150gr bullet its very effective on dropping a deer very quickly with a lung shot. I hunt in Eastern North Carolina and in the early part of the season, if you do not drop them where they stand, or get a very good blood trail, the deer will be in very thick cover in 2 or 3 steps. If I was doing it all over again I would get the 300 WSM so I could have (almost) .300 Win Mag ballistics in a short action rifle.
8x57IS, 8x57IRS, 8x68S are phantastic cartridges!
I wouldn’t mind hearing more about old and obscure cartridges such as the .256 Newton. The history of how we got to where we are today regarding all products, especially those gun related, I find very interesting.
THANKS, RON! YOU ARE THE BEST!
I think your intelligence, knowledge and urbane verbal capacity make your show absolutely unique. I always feel better educated from all the above plus your experience. Keep at it, if not as frequent offerings. You make me wish I had you guide me several decades ago.
Cupro nickel bullets were made / used by some countries years ago in mostly military type of ammo / calibers, and it did not seem to be detrimental to the bore of a rifle.
I harvested a couple moose with the 8mm rem mag, when i had the rifle i was using the 220 grain hornady at 2850 fps, long gone are the days of punishing my shoulder, but it was more than anything in this part of Canada
That's so great that you mentioned the hasty sling! I'm a former US Marine, and that's what we were taught to use. We used it in every shooting position with the M-16 A1 and the A2. I was in the Marine Corp in the early 80's.
I can't imagine not using the Hasty Sling. It helps to stabilize the rifle so much, especially in the off-hand position. I've sent messages to Ian on Forgotten Weapons a couple of times trying to convince him to use the Hasty Sling. He just acts like a sling is only useful as a carrying strap. He hangs out with those Army guys too much. They're not taught to use the Hasty Sling.
If you have the sling adjusted just right, namely if it adjusted perfectly for carrying the rifle on your shoulder, it'll be perfect for using as a Hasty Sling. Of course if you have it adjusted for using it on your bare arm, it will be different if you're wearing a jacket in cold weather. You have to re-adjust it for that.
There's a former Marine that demonstrates how to use the Hasty Sling on UA-cam. Just search Hasty Sling. There's some on there that's not correct. The guy I saw doing it right had a AR-15 and says during the video that he was a Marine. He's showing how to use the sling beside his garage.
Awesome, thanks Ron
Hi Ron, the concern for nickel fouling might be its chemical resistance. Acid that destroys nickel will also destroy steel. Probably still not worth thinking about
I live in Germany and shoot my father-in-law's sporterized 8x57JS Mauser 98, and after decades of shooting .308 Win in the US, have come to really like the cartridge for boar, red deer, and roe deer. In fact, when my son obtained his German hunting license, we bought a modern Mauser M12 chambered for the same. We also have a Sauer & Sohn Drilling, which has two side-by side 16-gauge barrels up (one with a .22 Hornet insert), and a 7x57R under; this gun is a great all 'rounder.
I lived in western Oregon for a while and this is my first time hearing about a bench legged deer. 😂
As Ron stated, the WSM cartridges have slightly larger cases and tend to shoot factory ammo slightly faster (one article says 50 - 60fps) than the RSAUM cartridges. It is important to note that in 2002, when they were introduced, laser rangefinders were still uncommon and hunters preferred lighter bullets and flatter trajectory to 500 yards over the heavier, higher BC bullets used today. Many factory loads were only 150 to 165 grains. The RSAUM's shorter case allows longer, higher-bc bullets in a typical short action (2.86" OAL), so it can catch up and pass the WSM at longer range. The RSAUM series also has the more modern "match-style" chamber with a length of closely-toleranced freebore that tend to align bullets better with the bore. This is used on virtually all recent cartridges because it tends to provide overall better accuracy and be less picky at to which loads shoot accurately. The 300 SAUM chamber design gains even more in a longer action since it allow the bullet to be loaded much farther out of the case, gaining back some powder capacity and putting the shank of the bullet into the tight freebore to help align the bullet, as is done with modern precision cartridges like the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.8 Western, and the 6.5mm, 7mm, and 300 PRC cartridges.
FWIW, when Winchester updated the 270 WSM into the longer-ranged 6.8 Western, it changed the chamber geometry to one very similar to the SAUM series.
My great grandfather had a 98 Mauser, in 8mm. Stamped on the top of it is the year 1942, four digit serial number as well, 7624, it has the German army eagle with the world in its claws. My grand father had it given to him and he handed it down to me. I have taken deer, bull moose and wolf with it. I have mostly 170 gr but have stepped up to a hand load of 200 gr nosler partitions. I shot a deer (buck) this past week with it and it was the only animal that went 20 yards and fell over dead. Everything else dropped in its tracks! My grandmother hunted as well and she knew this weapon well, i can still hear her saying to me, “when you hit something with that gun they just fall over”, lol, miss my grandparents they introduced me to hunting and trapping along with my dad. My favourite weapon of all!
I came here for 8mm story and it is on the end of this episode......
And not much of one. I think we deserve another about the 7.92x57 Mauser.
Yes, Cartridges of the World is still available. I love my copy!
Ron when do you gonna talk about the 8,5x55 blaser?
.325 WSM should have made more converts...but it just didn't happen
As for nickel plated ammunition in the automotive world we use nickel to break in Motors. It’s a very good metallic lubricant.
Hey Ron, I had a interesting experience with hornady leverevolution ammo in a marlin 336w back in 2014. I shot a deer in the spine high and the gun wouldn't cycle through the next round... the deer suffered for some minutes before I got it freed up. Later I was able to replicate what had happened... the fort tip had wedged between the rim of the round in front and the magazine tube wall and bound er up so tight that the cartridge wouldn't pull out of the tube and the lifter was hung in place. All in all it was a real mess so I switched to old fashioned flat nose and never had that problem again. I do owe something to that experience though because I started playing with reloading the flat nose stuff afterwards and now I reload for many, many different guns and cartridges.
For the 40, I agree. There was the .401 WSL, which is a .406 bullet. I have a .351 WSL which is just a short 350 legend. Oh, and over 100 years older. Heheheh. I also have 3 8x57mms. 1 is made as a .323, the other 2 were made as .318 during WW I. One of those had the neck reamed and an expander button pulled through to make the barrel .323. The other has had the neck reamed but no expansion of the barrel. The two .318s were WW I rifles converted into sporting rifles with custom claw mount scopes and engraving as well as carved stocks. Really beautiful K98 reworks. They also hit deer like Thors hammer.
The Remington tubular magazines were made to set each bullet point off of the primer. You do not need polymer for them.
I hunted bench leg black tails in the 50’s and 60’s with my father in oregon and haven’t heard that name since then. Some back then would call them mule deer bench leg!
Remington model 14 pump action had a twisted magazine to prevent the tips from resting on the primers.
I got custom 8 rem mag with 28 inch barrel those are very underrated
I often carried a Remington 700 in 8 mm Rem mag on my guide brown bear and Yukon moose hunts and loaded using Barns TSX 185 grain bullets it was just as deadly as a 340 Weatherby mag.
Where do you get your bullets from? I have a 8mm magnum custom barrel on a Browning synthetic x-bolt stock. Beautiful gun. Just wish I could find bullets for it
Mostly midway but I stocked up years ago before everything was so crazy
The civil replacement for the 8x57 was the 8x60. Both the 8x64 and 8x68 are a bit older. Brenneke did the 8X64 in the first world war and RWS did the 8x68 and 6.5x68 in the 1930ties. The 8x68 has only been available in the S version 0.323 bullets.
The 8x68 nearly matches the 8 mm Rem. Magnum in performance, especially with heavy bullets, with a quite a bit smaller case capacity.
I see the 6×68 keeps getting compared to the 300 win mag but instead should be compared to the 8mm rem mag and the 325WSM, the 8mm rem mag and the 8mm × 68 have more power because of powder capacity and the 7mm STW came from the 8mm rem mag but my favorite is the 325WSM because of it's efficiency and I have most of the other one's as well one doesn't kill any faster than the other. Aim small good hunting,GOD bless.
You want to see a slick 325 WSM rifle I build to sell AR 10 uppers in all of the WSM cartridges and have then also in 375 WSM AR 10 uppers
So because of our tough East Coast whitetail deer the West Coast at least got some type of deer that was not there before. Yes our white tails are pretty frisky but we will accept a big thank you from all you West Coasters.
my best friend in high school in the late 60s hunted with a surplus K98. i'll tell you it hit elk pretty dang hard
I know this thread is getting old, but definitely not stale. I love the 8mm family of cartridges. I have an 8x57 that is flat amazing on smaller bears, elk, and similar size game at closer ranges. The 8mm Rem Mag will take anything in North America and probably anywhere else if you load it right. The 160gr Barnes TTSX at 3700fps is a grenade!!!! I here a lot of people curse the 325 wsm, but I also normally hear them have some caveat. Out to 400 yards, it works great on whitetail, elk, mule deer, red stag, moose and a lot of other game. The 300 is more flexible, especially on smaller game, but if you have a 325, the hardest part is probably buying ammo if you don't reload. Otherwise, keep it!
Love my 7&8 Mauser
I’ve taken at least 60 blacktailed deer and when I first read about the genetic study revealing the Blacktail are whitetail/mule hybrid I was not surprised because of the backtails flighty behavior. Behaviorally they are more like a whitetail than a mule deer. We were always told that Blacktailed deer were a subspecies of mule deer. We still buy a mule deer tag for hunting Blacktail here. They should have their own tag called the grey ghost species tag!
Up towards forks the Olympic Northwest alongthe Olympics.They brought Meal deer back In the 30s and bread, the meal deer and black tail to make the black tails bigger and the racks bigger. So I have shot several half breeds up in the olympic northwest towards Forks
Spire points CAN ignite a primer in the tube. Have actually seen it happen. Neighbor loaded his lever with spire points. Swore he'd done it for years. What he was actually doing was loading three and chambering one - i.e. only two in the tube. His reasoning was that's all he needed because if he'd missed twice, he didn't need to keep wasting ammo. One day, don't know why, but one day he fully loaded up. First shot and the tube exploded. He survived with all his body parts, but spent some time in the hospital. Very, very memorable for me as a second grader. So, "pooh-poohers" aside, it REALLY is a possibility with spire points. I've seen it.
For 40 caliber, you have the old 38-40 WCF, which is a 401 diameter bullet. Doesn't utilize 50K psi, but it exists, and just like the 44-40, was once considered a good deer cartridge within its range limits.
Steve's question is valid. For the cases, the only real disadvantage is fewer reloads. The nickel makes the cases a bit harder, and you will get split necks sooner than all brass. Underwood claims a better plating process which "fixes" that, but I don't know about that part. As for the bullets themselves, again valid. Federal has come out with their "Punch" series of calibers, and the BULLETS are also nickel plated. Performance is quite good, so this might catch on. However, what Steve is probably thinking of is the old "cupronickel" bullets, which DID, indeed, foul barrels. That's why things switched to guilding metal jackets. Still, those were mostly copper, so any copper removing cleaning method works. Don't know about Federal's nickel bullets, but they are different from the old cupronickel.
I hate to inform you but the 7mm and 8mm question was answered many years ago with the 7x57mm and 8x57mm😊
the main .40 rifle i can think of is the .408 cheytac
Hi Ron, big fan of your work have been addicted to these videos, very educational. Om from Victoria, Australia and I know you’ve done some travelling for your hunts. What I’m wondering is have you hunted the big old Sambar deer that we mainly have here in Victoria. If so would love to hear your general thoughts. Thankyou!
Ron, if you'd like to aswage the 8mil fellas, may I suggest covering the Remington 8mm magnum? Seems like a nice 8mm big game cartridge that never took off. It has some solid numbers behind it.
Edit: looks like you did cover it.
Right, the big 8 was, or had the potential, to be a great cartridge. Sure it had a limited market back in 1978 (?) when it hit the market. I think Remington missed the market by only offering a 180gr and 220gr bullets. With a heavier bullet, 240gr-260gr, it would've smoked the 338 Win and hung with the 340 Weatherby. Sadly it's another case of Big Green getting bored with a fine cartridge and allowing it to whither on the vine.
*Easiest way to add length of pull for keeping thumb out of nose...... slip on or lace on recoil pads. The doubled up recoil pad system will feel different...and allow more compression of the rubber which allows more scope and rifle action travel to rear & toward eyebrow. So, with your magnums...scope to face can be a real possibility. Softer felt recoil with extra thick recoil pads... allows a longer recoil stroke... Thus, scope to face might happen. Keep that in mind when choosing iron sights or scope. Longer eye relief to keep the scope out of your head.... might be a good idea.*
Comparing cartridges, for the most popular I go to Nosler Load Data, Print out the ones you like and compare. Cartridges of the World covers most but some whithout the shematics. I don't go to SAMMI often to compare. To many meassurements
Do you remember to include in the book 7x33 Sako??
It will surely be an interesting book...
Some people are violently allergic to nickel. My wife is.
I'll be darned I've never heard of that allergy. I've seen kids get bad red ears from fake silver earrings. Maybe it's the nickel?
Deer is allergic too, i have seen it 🧐
Hi, Ron. I recall reading some Elmer Keith books back in the day. He was apparently immune to recoil in any fashion, as some of his wildcat loads proved... but he was real hot on. 33 caliber slugs in a number of rifles he had built, I believe one was known as a .33-375 OKH rifle...gotta find his "Rifle Shooting" books again... Elmer and the ".44 Associates" pushed for the .44 Magnum, from the .44 Spl. cartridge, and he loved the bigger "mid - bore " rifle rounds as well...
Winchester silver tip 64gr 223 has a nickel plated jacket with a black polymer tip seated in normal brass. It is a great contrast to copper seated into nickel brass.
Hi Ron. The 8x68S out performs the 30-06 and I will put it in the line of 375h&h
I bought an M48 Mauser for $190.00 at a gun show. Looked to be an unissued rifle. I was wanting a K98 but I bought the M48 because it was available. One of the nicest shooting rifles I've had the pleasure to to shoot. I've shot very tight 5 shot groups with 147gr , 196gr Surplus and lellier& bellot 196gr hunting ammo. Evert part was machined and the numbers match. I never imagined this gun would be such a great experience. With newer bullet designs, who knows what it is capable of ?
I also have a numbers matching m48. Receiver machining is a bit rough but action is still pretty slick. Shoots lik we a house afire!
That's a steal nowadays for a clean M48. I paid that much for mine and it is not pretty. The Turks loaded 8mm pretty hot when those rifles were issued. It's been known to blow up machine guns. I'd wager some +p ammo would really wake up the cartridge if needed.
That chain reaction explosion has also happened with some 12ga shotgun slugs that had a pointy tip that protruded past the shell. They have been discontinued.
I've got an 8mm K98 from 1944 that was my grandfather's. It has all matching serial numbers but (unfortunately) was sporterized a long time ago.
I've never harvested a deer with it, but many, many feral hogs.
Me, too. Mine was sporterized while they were still $49.95 in hardware stores. I've killed many feral hogs with mine. My grandfather bought it right after the war. He said he paid $12.00 for it.
Two subspecies of white-tailed deer are found in Oregon. There are populations of the Columbian white-tailed deer in the Umpqua River
Basin near Roseburg and on a series of Columbia River islands in Oregon and Washington, and on the Oregon
and Washington mainlands along the lower Columbia River. The other whitetail in Oregon is the Northwest whitetail that are found in Northeastern Oregon, particularly in Union, Wallowa, and Umatilla counties. These also occasionally interbreed with Mule Deer.
If you want a serious factory load for the 8x57 Mauser, try the Sellier & Bellot 196 grain load. From my 23.7" Husqvarna 1640, I measured 2600 fps with my Garmin chronograph. This velocity was measured in summertime. In cold weather, I am still seeing well over 2550 fps.
In regards to nickel jacketed bullets. The one I run into is the Turkish 8mm Mauser ammo. That ammo has a copper-nickle jacketed Bullet. The jacket is 80% Nickel and 15% copper and 5% other. Turkish model 1903 Mausers are notorious for having worn out barrels from shooting their nickel jacketed bullets. However Turkey, like many other thrifty countries, would use their rifles until the bullets shot sideways before decommissioning them. The Model 1903 Mausers were used heavily in World War I and World War II.
Ron, Remington chambered a 700 in 8mm . I saw one I didn't have enough cash on me at the time I regret not putting it on plastic. I did use an old Czech 98/22 hunting on a South Dakota West River deer hunt in Lyman county. I was fortunate to harvest a mature whitetail doe. There were two other hunters that seen me shoot this old Mil Surpl with open sights they couldn't believe it.
Hi there Ron. Like your content thanx a mil. On the 8x68a, bit of useless info, we did a chrono test with the powder we get here is South Africa, somchem S365 being a slow burner for the stuff like 338WM ect and we got a respectable 2940fps on a 26in barrel with a 180gr RWS bullet. So u can do the math on that energy. Pretty underestimated cartridge but damn a great gun. So it stacks up well with a 300WM.
Thanks again for the videos. Always greatly!
I hunted with a sporterized 8x57 in high school and loved it.
We have plenty of Muleys in central British Columbia. I drilled one through lengthwise with my 8mm-06 this fall. Unfortunately the aggressive Whitetails push them out of some areas. They're both good eating!
Ron! You are wrong! Or close... I may be alone, but I'm interested in cartridges I've never heard of like the 2 56 Newton. Pull it into the mix and maybe someone will be interested in resurrecting it! Good show!
Get a Husqvarna 640 in 8x57. A truly great rifle
LOL, glad ya got your shoulder back..lol
My 73-year-old dad called me up and wanted me to leave you a comment that the 9.3x57 and 8x57 Mauser aren't the same and can't share ammo. We're from the Black Hills (he said you used to live in SD) and he's a big fan of your show. It would make his day if you commented back! :) Thanks, Ron!
Check out the .40 great lakes cartridge. New but a lot of potential for 40 caliber.
G.K.USA. I own 3 98k rifles and enjoy shooting theantm. I mounted a 3×9 scope on one of them using a cantilever mount. I did not want to alter the rifle in any way that would reduce it's value. I took the rifle to a 100 yard. Using Mitchell's Mausers match ammo, and Norma hot huntig loads. I shot the match ammo first. I shot.a 3 shot, 1" group. I could not bring myself to risk ruining the group by going for a 5 shot group. Then I tried the Norma 165 gr. Hunting load. I got another 1"group. 3 shots again. I still have that target after 19 years.
Hi Ron, the 8.68, is between the 300 win mag and the 338 lapua, you can see data at RWS
Not even close
The 8mm produces less energy then the 300 win mag 3900 ftlbs and less than a 338 win mag 4000 ftbs the 338 lapua produces 6609J or 4800 ftlbs
My goodness the 338 lapua is something else. Ha oh wow.
@@northerntier87 yeah 340 Weatherby territory for sure.
We have a special sub species of white tail deer in Oregon. Called Colombian whitetail
Ah yes, really high up the mountain.
You've never come across a sporterized 8mm mauser? My dad has one that his dad brought bad from the war. I hear there were quite a few brought back and sporterizing them was a common thing. Unfortunately, this one's been sporterized, so it has a new stock and not the original bolt, but it's a cool gun, took my first two or three deer with it (before I inherited a 243)
Then there are a few wildcats, all on 06 brass,8mmo6,the ackley imp,then 8mm gibbs which i have,a very potent cart but most difficultcult to fire form,thank you very much for your videos
Dan Wesson came up with a stretched .41 mag they called the .414 Supermag.
I have found that missing prairie dogs with a pistol was more fun than long shooting with a rifle
The fact that length of pull changes with wearing more clothes like an insulated jacket ,,is one piece of knowledge that is only learned by experience,,if a man is less than six foot tall and has on a thick jacket he never would need more than 13 and a half inches of pull on a rifle.
40 caliber is probably the 2nd most popular bullet size for muzzleloaders. 40 caliber in a sabot is used for 45 cal smokepoles. There's at least some bullet development.
the new cz 600 lux comes in 8x57 on the cz website , i haven't seen any in stores
Hi Ron I regularly write comments back to you on your different topics..I think you are a excellent gunwriter and are very knowledgeable and articulate in your views and the way you present them.however , I feel that you and most gunwriters have given the 8x57 a very cold shoulder.yes the cartridge was used against our troops in ww1 and ww2. This is not a reason to dislike or hate a cartridge. Handloaded to a safe maximum with a 200 gr Speer sp it is much more than a 308 with a 180 gr bullet.this diminutive cartridge is really the only 8mm magnum
Thanks Dino. Yes, the 8x57mm is a fine cartridge roughly on par with the 30-06, to which it is the parent, really. We largely copied from the 8x57 to make our 30-06. The 7x57 Mauser likely springs from it, too. But I don't give it the cold shoulder so much as ignore it altogether. But not out of any negative feelings toward it. It's just not a chambering I often stumble across. Few US made rifles are chambered in it. Anyone who finds it convenient to own and use an 8x57 Mauser should do so and enjoy. It will handle all game. I do not, agree, however, that it is an 8mm Magnum, let alone the only one. As one of the original 8mms dating back to 1888, it is the standard. Significantly higher velocity 8mms (.325" diameter bullets) like the 325 WSM and 8mm Rem Mag. would be considered true magnums (if there is such a thing.)
Thank you for replying. I've been roasted more than once for my view on the 8x57 and the 270 win which I also feel was a beltless magnum. When 1st released it smoked 3145 fps with a 130 gr bullet. Love old rifles .my longest shot on a elk was 285 paces with a peep sighted Yugoslavian mauser.200 gr Speer sp at 2489 fps.full penetration and drt.
Nice to hear the 256 Newton mentioned. He was quite a guy. The other thing he designed for Savage was the 250 Savage, i am pretty sure. Named the 250-3000 because it was the first mass commercial cartridge to achieve 3000 fps (but only with an 87 gr bullet). See, marketing hype is nothing new. I enjoy learning about vintage cartridges that in many cases were ahead of their time. The 280 Ross comes to mind in the same breath as the 256.
I love the 8x57. Mine is the M48 Yugo Mauser. Got it in 2002 or 2003 i think, for 175. Very good condition, nice stock. I actually had that some years before i got an -06. Felt vaguely un-American. Lol. But i did already have 2 308's, a 30-30, and other stuff, so i was okay. Hard to beat, esp if u handload to its normal potential. Most factory ammo is downloaded in deference to old rifles and the . 318 bores that are still around. There is about half a thimble full of difference between it and -06 if you look at loading manuals. It is about as ubiquitous in Europe as the -06 is here. It always surprised me how many other countries used it as a military cartridge right after WW2, even in semiautos like the Hakim. I would think everybody would want to forget anything German. I guess that goes to show how good a cartridge it is.
The only domestic rifle i can think of ever chambered for it is the Rem 700 Classic, only for 1 year of course. Wouldn't mind having one in any number of chamberings. The 6.5x55 would be nice (circa 1993, i think), so it could also be loaded to full ballistics.
The lengthened 41 Mag is an interesting idea, similar to the 444 Marlin. Probably never happen, since we have the 444 and the 45-70. But it would be fun. Bullets up to 250 gr at good velocity. A friend of mine picked up a 6.5-06 a few months ago that has "ACKLEY" stamped on it. Not sure if Ackley built the rifle, or if it is an AI chamber. Don't think he has done any load development yet. Should be a good shooter though. Only wildcat i have is a 357 Herrett barrel for my Contender. Haven't done anything with it yet, but i plan some silhouette. I may get my 22 Hornet barrel reamed to K-Hornet at some point. Another wildcat that is interesting is 6.5 JDJ. Can't think of any wildcats in repeaters that i might want, but who knows. That is half the fun.
401 Winchester Self Loader, BOOM!
Tula, sells bulk 223 rem in stell cases eith bimetal bullet jackets. (Can attrackt magnet) but looks nickle coated
I recall that a lot of bullets from the latter part of the 19th century & the early part of the 20th century were made with "Cupronickel" jackets (a Copper/Nickel Alloy?). But I believe they were replaced by pure Copper because barrel fouling became a problem as velocities increased. I would think that implies that Cupronickel is softer than pure Copper.
I'm off topic, but you say to clean the gilding metal from the rifle barrel for best accuracy when shooting copper bullets. Most recommended solvents are for copper and carbon. Help!
Gilding metal is 95% copper and 5% zinc. Copper solvents remove it.
Thank you! I am a oregon boy/64 years old . I have harvested a bench leg myself. They are a real thing.