Quest 3 and Quest 2 - Best AGES for VR, and WHY (It's NOT what you expect!)
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- Опубліковано 13 січ 2024
- Quest 3, Quest 2, Valve Index, Vive Owners - all of you - this affects everyone to a degree, and with VR making such a splash again right now with the Quest 3 release a couple months ago, the UEVR mod bringing a ton of games into play for VR players on PC VR, we should have this debate about who VR is "best" for. First off, Virtual Reality truly is for everyone. I'm NOT saying to exclude anyone! Absolutely not, but being someone who is a bit older, and who has been through the Atari 2600 era, the Apple II era, the Sega Genesis era, even the Panasonic 3DO era (anyone remember that one), I have a lot of experience in this area. Let's Virtual our Reality! Let the comments fly - I want to know what YOU think...
#vr, #virtualreality, #quest3, #valveindex, #meta, #vrheadset, #vrheadsets, #vrisdead, #vrisnotdead, #quest2, #vrgaming, #jollyjulian, #vrmods, #debate, #pcvr, #mobilevr, #standalonevr
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Additional Music by: Jolly Julian - Ігри
I'm 69 years old and agree with you . I have always been a tech guy since I was in my 20's. I recently sold my Quest 2 and bought a Quest 3. I'm loving it. I enjoy flight sims, and games like Moss. One thing you forgot to mention is that younger people have always had things like smart phones and tablets. They may take technology like VR for granted more than us seniors. I can remember growing up with black and white TV and rotary phones. Witnessing advances in technology over the years has been awesome. I refuse to be one of those old people who feel left behind as far as technology is concerned.
Oh, great point! 100% agree - that is another great reason, the fact that we don't take technology like this for granted to the degree that people who have grown up with devices that would have been mind-blowing to us at their age, does probably have people take for granted VR a big sometimes. Oh, and I LOVE MS Flight sim so much! My rig barely runs it, but I've done a lot of tinkering to get it to be usable. LOVE it - one of my favorite things! And MOSS was amazing. I haven't done book 2 yet, but I plan to. Thanks for the comment!
Hello! As a teenager, I've been into VR since the age of 10 when I first got to see the GearVR, and have been in love since. My dad got the Quest 1 when I was 11, not because I bugged him, but because he was in love with it too after trying his friend's Quest. I find it very weird that somebody that never showed any interest in technology, games, or the idea of VR, could get sucked in enough to pay that amount. He has more interest in it than I do, and this video helps me understand a lot more. I could show my parents video games for hours and they would be sleeping, but put them in VR and they see the same thing in it I do. It is so nice to find something that everyone equally thinks is amazing. I think that this video shows so many reasons as to why VR is so amazing for adults too, but as a teenager, VR doesn't seem like a gimmick even for someone with less experience in life. I think that more adults should try it because of just how amazing of an experience it is, of course, I wouldn't say that it is "wasted" on younger people, but I totally see how amazing this would be for somebody who sees it as more than just a screen in a box. Also, more of a direct opinion, but I totally think social and voice chat-related VR games should not be for kids at all, I can't wait for the day that I can try VRChat, but I really don't think it's smart for younger people, even a teenager.
Sorry if my wording is confusing, hard to put my thoughts into words here lol
A fantastic comment all around - love it! Your connection to VR is great, and I love how much you enjoyed and appreciated it immediately. And then your dad got into it as well. I'm glad the video helped to see part of why it might have impacted your father so much, but I also appreciate how much it impacted YOU. I agree that VR is now wasted on the young. Not wasted at all. It is so different for each person, and people of all ages can enjoy it and connect with it very much. Wasted on the young probably is not the right way to word it. However, noticing people who are older get so much into what might not have brought them in as much in a traditional display or flat-screen fashion, is wonderful - I agree! You put your thoughts into words perfectly - really resonated! A good voice for the "younger" people using VR for sure!
A fun video with a unique perspective. Makes me wish that there were more mature users on VRchat. Much of the time in Quest public rooms I turn my volume off so that I don't have to listen to the insane screeching of pre-teens who just got a headset for Christmas. On average I have found there to be more mature users on PC only VRchat sites as it takes money and resources younger users don't tend to have. I am 70 and my first VR experience was with the Quest 3 which I bought when it first came out. My favorite apps so far are Eleven table tennis, Holofit for my concept 2 rowing machine, VRchat, Racketnx, Walkabout Mini Golf, Wander and Puzzling places.
Completely understand where you're coming from when it comes to VRChat! While I always LOVE the enthusiasm people have for VR (always a good thing), sometimes the screeching gets to be a bit much. And yes, I agree, PCVR tends to skew a little older as a general rule, so less of that issue there. And great choices for games! RacketNX is a good workout (and very fun), and I've almost bought PUZZLING PLACES a few times - looks like such a great chill puzzle game. I played the demo and did enjoy it. I'll have to try Wander - as I love GOOGLE EARTH in VR. Sadly GE can only be done in PCVR. Keep enjoying the VR world, my friend!
I'm in my late 40's here. Agree with your debate. Another item is we are from a generation of gamers who have experienced a longer transformation of the gaming industry. We started with the days of pong, so we may appreciate the tech of VR probably a lot more then someone who started gaming with a PS3 or PS4.
A great point, and someone else made a similar observation in the comments as well - couldn't agree more! That evolution from Atari 2600 and Apple II (my early gaming experiences) to where we are now.... amazing! And PONG!!! Oh, how we thought that was the coolest thing ever - and it was! Great point, and keep enjoying this great gaming (and experience) world we have!
45 here, started with oculus developer kit, the first one, DK2 after that, original htc viva, and now playing with quest 3, the progress is incredible, MQ3 is a fantastic device
I had a similar growth in VR, but my first headset was a VIVE PRO. I paid so much for that thing, but I wanted what was "best" at the moment I discovered HOME-BASED VR was a thing. I also had an Oculus Rift, Rift S, Valve Index, Quest 1, Quest 2, and now the Quest 3. I don't usually get this sucked into things, but something about VR captured my imagination in a huge way. Thanks for sharing, and so glad you're loving the Q3 as much as I am!
I'm almost 40 and my son is 16, and we play VR all the time together. I've been around the tech scene since the early days of the Apple 3 computer. And I think it depends on THE GAMES rather than VR itself. But I DO AGREE that it's better aimed at us older folks who were actually around during the FIRST go around with "VR" and remember things like the MASSIVE VR units at fairs and stuff that had you stuck inside a ring thing with a headset the size of a VCR on your head or the failed attempts at home units like the "Virtual Boy" or old school 3D glasses. Because we can actually appreciate modern VR all the more and is the same reason why older people tend to enjoy the modern version of 3D more. Whereas the younger generation might look at VR as more of a "fad" than anything else. Something that isn't up to the same quality as console or PC games and so they don't take it serious or aren't interested in the games as we have YET to see a TRULY immersive, FULL TRIPLE A game title built from the ground up for VR (Other than a few like Half Life Alyx).
I like what you said here for sure - the nostalgia and comparing of current VR to old VR (first gen a while back) as well as comparing the games we grew up on flat, being brought into VR (and us being "brought into" those games! Great points here, and I agree a lot depends on the games themselves. For me, no question, if a game comes out both flat and in VR, I will ALWAYS pick the VR version, UNLESS it's TERRIBLY optimized. I would argue we've had what I would consider truly immersive triple-A games in VR. You mentioned one - HALF-LIFE ALYX, totally agree. I also feel WALKING DEAD SAINTS AND SINNERS would fit that bill. And, if you could great VR MODS for PC, I would put Subnautica and Alien Isolation on that list, as well as many of the Resident Evil games, but again, those are VR MODS, but boy, are they amazing! Thanks for the comment, and glad you and your son get to enjoy VR together! The family who VRs together, stays together! :)
Just gonna leave this here that I was here before the channel hit 500 subs.
Still gonna be here till it hits 100k and beyond 😮
Love that! You are one of the earliest viewers, and I appreciate that so much! Haven't been doing this long, but been loving VR for a good 7+ years now, and so glad to connect and share with people like yourself. Thanks again, and boy, would love to be able to reach 100k VR enthusiasts at some point. Here's to VR continuing to grow!
I think the main problem is that our pcs arent powerfull enough yet for what you pay for to be able to full dive into vr on a budget and nice video 💪🏼
Good point, and can't argue with that at all. Doing VR through PC requires more power than flat-screen for sure. Having to render everything twice, to begin with. However, depending on the game or experience, I have an old computer here that I've used as a 2nd computer for friends, that is running an older 1080ti graphics card, and it's a very old CPU, and it will run certain things quite well in VR! I'm even surprised sometimes. However, for the BEST results, and highest resolution, the better the PC and GPU, the better for sure. Not a "cheap" hobby, but a great one, and the standalone capabilities of the Quest 2 and 3 are also VERY good on their own. So, can always start with that, and if people love it enough, can upgrade their PC to open up that whole other world. Hope that helps, and thanks for the compliment about the video. Appreciate it!
I think those of us over 40 probably remember the promise of VR in the late '80s and early '90s, and having lived through so much improvement in tech are probably a little more forgiving of some of the early VR jank and growing pains, while also being more appreciative of the immersion.
Although that said I also have a friend of a similar age that loves video games, but thinks that 3D graphics are a gimmick that gets in the way of tighter game play, and feels the same about VR.
Also, while I have no motion sickness issues myself, amongst people I've shown VR (including my parents), the kids have had less issues with motion sickness than the older adults.
Purely anecdotal, but that's been my experience.
A great comment, thank you so much. We do have a lot of recollection and context for the promise of virtual reality over the decades. For me, it really didn't even dawn on me this was much of a thing until about 7 or 8 years ago. I missed the whole beginning craze that started kind of in the 90s or so. Didn't last long obviously. That was the virtual boy era, I suppose. Your point about your friend who feels that 3D and VR is a bit of a gimmick that gets in the way of tighter gameplay, I can understand that sentiment. There is, I'm sure, for the developers, a balancing act between implementing the immersion aspects of virtual reality, and not having it interfere with gameplay, rather enhance it. I think the games and experiences that do this the best are the ones people will remember. For me, Half-Life ALYX is one of those, as is walking Dead saints and sinners. Both of those games use the immersion of virtual reality, the connection to our controllers and our personalities, and integrate them into wonderful gameplay that feels very organic and gets me coming back time and time again.as for the motion sickness potentially happening more with people who are a little bit older, that does make sense. As we get older, the fluid in our ears hardens a bit, and can change the way we perceive balance a little bit and movement. Maybe that's part of what's impacting it, I'm not sure. Lots of science to be studied. Thanks again for the comments, and keep enjoying vr!
@@jollyjulian Thanks for the content!
I didn't see any Virtual Boys back when they were released, but the local Arcade got a couple of the Dactyl Nightmare machines with massive helmets and thick steel cables. I only played a couple of times because they weren't great (nor was the Lawnmower man movie featuring virtual reality from around the same time) and cost a lot. There's a faithful reproduction for the Quest people can check out for the history/nostalgia. The machines were mostly spectacles used to draw people in, like the Sega Time Traveler "hologram" game or the rotating Afterburner deluxe cabinet.
I was a big fan of scifi from Gibson, Stephenson, Effinger etc Cyberpunk which foreshadowed the development of the internet and online virtual "cyberspace", so as crude as it was '90s VR hinted at a future I'd already imagined for some time.
After disappearing and being written off as a '90s fad, I'm glad to see VR come back when the technology is really capable of delivering on the idea.
Wish I could make subtitles to show this vídeo to some foreign friends, even though some benefits of going VR can only be understood when experienced, I gotta say you have a closer point than I could even make.
Not going into the fact that younger audiences already have enough content tailor made for them, I can agree with the brain and physical exercise, I'm forever in love with puzzles of all kinds and being able to experience something like The Room or Please Don't Touch Anything being INSIDE the game is truly unlike any 2D experience out there. No other media could achieve the same depth of empathy like putting you in someone else's shoes like you see in A Fisherman's Tale or even the interaction between player and character like you get playing Moss (I still gotta try the second game, btw).
I think I might transcribe your whole video for these guys anyway, hat's off for managing to bring this subject so clearly, cheers.
Oh, that is very kind of you to say, and I love that you felt this could be helpful to some of your non-English-speaking friends. Yes, I wonder how easy / hard it is to make foreign subtitles for things these days... Oh, and I LOVED the Room VR so much. To this day, one of my fondest VR experiences ever! And A Fisherman's Tale - so wonderful. And, of course, MOSS. I loved that experience so much, and cared about little Quill a lot more than I thought I would! Thank you again so much, and if you do transcribe this, let me know how you did it, and how time consuming it was. Appreciate you much!
@@jollyjulian Quick update: as a test for what you asked and also my own skills, I have set myself to start transcribing this video last night, and even with some random delays like getting messages while typing... It took me about 3 hours to finish the text, now aligning each sentence with the video is a whole different story.
About how I do it, usually I start it as a notepad file, just typing a few words for each line to keep the subtitles short. If I am adding the subtitles to a video, there is another program that I use to create the time stamps for the .srt file, it is free but I have to fetch it on my older hard drive as I can't recall the name and I am on a new machine. Anyway, I plan to show this to my work buddies this week, I think they will relate to the subject even though most of them are still on the fence about getting a headset thenselves.
Always thought virtual reality is best for people definitely in their late 30s or even better late 40s. Anyone who lived through Atari and video game boom era of the 80s. Basically anyone who experienced TRON originally in theaters. Lol. Virtual Reality is something that I always longed for through my 80s childhood, to be in the video game. I always thought VR would just a dream and it would never really exist in our real reality. So glad I lived long enough to experience it. Lol
Couldn't agree with you more! YES YES YES. Living at a time where I've seen a world with NO computers in our homes, through the computer boom, consoles, and now VR - so awesome! Appreciate the comment!
Another well constructed video Julian. Keep up the good work.
Very kind of you - thank you much! This one took a longer time to edit and create than I expected, but I really wanted to play with things a little more graphically and such. Really enjoying sharing VR thoughts with people like you who are as into this as I am!
hahaha, forever young man! I loved when I came across a guy in mini golf that was a 60-year-old dude an, I'm like dang does it hurt your head or anything. He said it was great an he loved VR.
Love this! I know, the wide range of ages I run into in VR seems so much broader than even regular "flat" gaming. Might not actually be the case, but it seems like it. And my father LOVES playing Minigolf with me on a regular basis, and he's 76 years old! Keep VR-ing, my friend, and thanks for the comment!
I find my young boy is very fussy with vr on quest 3. He can't appreciate it as much I me.
Yeah, so interesting how differently VR hits different people. I guess that can be said about just about anything, but perhaps because VR is such a "physical" thing - attached to our face, simulating depth and scale and movement - each person tends to have a different visceral response. Maybe that's part of it?
kids shouldnt be in vrchat
Not at all - you are right. Please keep your kids away from VRChat. A lot of lovely people in there, but also.... a lot of ...... not.
I disagree entirely. Honestly I kinda doubt the point of VR vs just using a screen. People always make points about tracking for things like Beat Saber, but we had things like that already with the Wii, you can have full control of things with a screen just like in VR, it's just not as immersive. I also doubt we'll ever fully get over the problems with motion sickness just because it's an inherent trait of people. We can reduce the effect but you can never get rid of it.
The best selling point of VR to me is just that it's got depth, but we could also just bring back 3D displays. The illness people got from them was mainly caused by TVs having bad response times so that should be basically gone today. Plus even if you can't share a 3D TV using eye tracking for the effect, you already couldn't share a VR headset with anyone.
I've still yet to play anything I think VR just made better. To me the display in front of me is always clearer with a higher frame rate. And VR requires driving 2 displays as high res as my one display so it will always run worse too. VR is that tech that sounds so great on the surface but in reality is incredibly flawed.
I like this - a healthy debate is started! I completely get where you're coming from, and the points you make about clarity and frame-rate in typical display gaming vs VR gaming is true. They are better, and probably will be for a long time. As VR gets better and better, so will display tech, however, when do we reach the point where the eye can't really distinguish any more "resolution" then we are being served? At that point, things may level out between the two as far as quality. I think what's fascinating (and not at all surprising) is the fact that each person is going to have a different experience in VR. With flat-screens, we all get the same thing. Yes, some people prefer high-res to great contrast, curved screens to flat, etc, but there aren't that many things to take into consideration overall. With VR, it's different, because we wear it. So, getting comfort, reducing effects of motion-sickness, longevity of playtime - those all vary with each person. However, I do believe there's MUCH MUCH more to the immersion factor of VR than just 3D. I own a 3D TV. I have for many years. I've even played 3D games on a "flat screen" simulated in VR - and neither of these things are even close to the experience of FULL VR (for me). Again, not knocking how you feel about it - each person will be different, but I'm willing to bet that, in the right experience, and the right headset, you would experience more immersion than ever possible with a flat-screen experience. Just posing that as possible - if not now, in the future. 3D is only a small part of it. Scale, motion of head-movement, the controllers / hand-tracking mimicking the experience of reaching out and grabbing real things in the real world in front of you, the 3D spatial audio - all these things are MASSIVE, and just as important (if not more, in some ways), than the mere 3D itself. Okay, that's all for now - tag, you're it! Thank you again for posing an alternative to my theory here, and I look forward to commenting more, if you're up for it!
@jollyjulian well we do already know what indistinguishable resolution is. For a display 8ft away like a normal TV, at the size of 45 inches 8K will not only be emaculate, but will also eliminate aliasing effects. Basically no purpose in antialising anymore at that point.
For VR you more have to contend with the human eye exactly. The eye's resolution is impacted by distance so the same resolution father or smaller will make it look sharper. The eye instead is resolution in degrees of view, this is why ppi is often used, but the distance is also significant. The human eye is calculated to be about 32 mega pixels in quality but of that about 8-16 of those are just in 10° of your center of vision. That means if a display is close to your eye the display would need to be somewhere around 10-16K.
I'm not even sure why you brought up spacial audio. Virtual surround sound has been a thing for decades, windows even comes with DTS and Windows Sonics by default and you can pay a license for Atmos too; it's not really anything new. I will say that binaural audio is incredibly impressive, but it's massively under utilized. I only know of like 5 games that actually support binaural audio even though it objectively is superior to the alternatives. It quite literally uses a simulated human ear to record how audio is recieced by our ears. That being said, none of this is exclusive to VR. Plus I will say that these virtual surround systems in general do tend to give an unnatural feel to the audio as a side effect of trying to add directionality.
And the issues I see with VR as immersive over just a 3D TV are you now have something on your head that actually adds weight, the field of view is never as good as real life, the lenses either distort or color shift at the edges (even the beyond does it), and the fact that our eyes struggle to counter the movements of the headsets in motion like it does in real life. Just walk in a straight line and notice how your eyes correct out nearly all vibration. Do the same in VR and it stands out.
The impact of higher frame rates is also far more necessary in VR due to the small movements our heads and bodies make. At lower refresh rates these small movements show as more obvious stutters that the last point also struggles with. On a flat screen the effects of 90-120fps is pretty minimal, but in VR it has far more impact.