The EPIC Shogun Series FINALE! - Angry Review
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- Опубліковано 23 кві 2024
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AngryJoe, OtherJoe & Alex Review the Second Half & the EPIC Finale to FX's Shogun! Quite simple some of the BEST Television made, easily the BEST SHOW of the Year!
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"No translator." That line, that moment. I was in tears 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Definitely that was devastating
That and the boat scene, Cosmos nailed it
@@uSnatchios*Cosmo. 😅
But you are right.
"Presence is felt most keenly in absence" -Kiku
@@Charge183IF Close enough! haha
“Why would I tell a dead man the future.” Hard ass line from Toranaga!
Apparently It was a call back to a line that was said previously. I totally missed it.
Yabishige said it first but this line affirmed to him that Toranaga always knew he was disloyal and that's why they smiled at eachother before he died.
Right after telling him what would happen in the following months
Loved that line and whole scene.
but then that smirk to Yabu before the final slash kinda confirms it. i think he was glad he was able to unburden all of this to yabushige.
Yabushige grinning at Toranaga just before he was about to second him was epic. He realised it was always Toranaga's intention to become Shogun.
he also realized omi was the spy
@@sabel5209 Muraji was the spy.
Also, Toranaga once promised Yabu that he would let him in on the next plan during the night ambush in the forest. For Yabu to look back at his second, it takes courage to stare at death in the face. To see the blade slash toward your neck in lieu of looking away.
It was his in his secret heart all along
@@ronin1648 In the season opener, Big T talked about the secret heart. Trust no one, he told his son. He was more or less projecting, and telegraphing to viewers as a narrative and historic foreshadowing.
That last conversation between toranaga and yabushige was the highlight. It brought everything together.
Yabushige was us forreal 😂
Even though I was expecting it by that point late in the episode, just hearing toranaga tell yabushige, “bruh, crimson sky is done already..”.was a great moment
So they told us instead of showing us? Clever.. isn’t Angry Joe always bitching about this kind of story telling?
@@SPERanger and i realized the show tricked us. Remember episode 9 was called Crimson sky the finale wasnt. Brilliant way of telling us without outright saying it.
@@TheLegendaryHero. well show dont tell encompasses words as well as actions and thoughts rather than explicit exposition. Plus he is telling us what already happened for most of it. Its completely natural for him to be saying this as its in his character. Also its in the context of explaining his actions to another character who in that scene is essentially an audience surrogate. So its a clever way of show dont tell.
It really takes masterful writers and directors to make me sad about the death of a character who started the series by boiling a human being to death.
Toranaga sacrificed all of his loyal servants throughout the whole series to become Shogun. Ruthless
For a greater good
Unintentionally the most dishonourable and wicked person.
@@aceplatini859 I'd say necessary amd wicked sure. But what did he do to be called dishonourable ?
real life Toranaga was even more vile. literally tricked and murdered a defenseless lady in yodo-dono.
His plan seems to depend entirely on Lady Ochiba being so moved by Mariko's death, she'd break with Ishido. He put all his chips on the power of childhood friendship.
Historical fun facts: As we know, Toranada was based on Tokugawa Ieyasu. One epic historical story from this period is about Torii Mototada, who was a gifted general of Tokugawa. When Tokugawa returned to Edo (Eastern Capital), Toyotomi Hideyori (son of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, who was successor to Oda Nobunaga) ordered Ishida Mitsunari to march east towards Edo with 40,000 soliders laying waste to everything in their way. Tokugawa then ordered Mototada to perform a rear action to halt the advance and secure time for Tokugawa's forces to reach his powerbase in Edo. Mototada peformed a Japanese equivalent of the "300" and Leonidas. Mototada held Fushimi Castle in Kyoto, which served as a choke point, with 1800 men against Ishida's 40,000. They held the castle for 12 days before the remaining 10 samurai, Mototada included, committed seppuku. During this conflict, Mototada's 1800 killed several thousand of Ishida's army. Ishida's army then continued to Edo following a scorched earth policy as they advanced.
In those 12 days, Tokugawa managed to gather an army of near 90,000 and then attacked Ishida's army. This was the Battle of Sekigahara. In this battle, like hinted at in the show with Ochiba/The Heir's army, one of the major daimyos, Kobayakawa Hideaki, and his force was technically on Toyotomi/Ishida's side but had agreed to switch sides and join Tokugawa. His switching of sides is often credited as one of the major events that Tokugawa the battle.
Tokugawa and his Shogunate then went on to rule Japan, as a unified nation, for 260 years.
That is one of the battles in Shogun 2 Total War I think.
Total war shogun! ❤
Ironically a lot of the clans that lost in the battle of sekigahara would eventually join the emperor to help defeat the Tokugawa shogunate 200 years later, marking the end of the shoguns rule.
@faytforever8263 that's because they knew they couldn't remain isolationist forever in the "modern" world. They would have to embrace nationalism and get rid of the feudal system that dominated for centuries. The amazing part to me was that Japan went from a feudal society with horses and swords to a fully fledged modern international powerhouse that defeated Russia all around 100 years. Japan wholly embraced modern Western methods and synthesized it with their innate Eastern traditions.
@ash072 To be fair to the Russia they're leadership during that war was very questionable, but yes, I agree that the way they were able to modernize so quickly and effectively was very impressive.
Goes to show you don’t need 24+ episodes series to tell a good story.
This is literally the equivalent to a 24+ season. All the episodes are almost a fcking hour long.
@@imsentinelprime9279 No. Many shows' episodes are ~an hour long; that's pretty standard. Just because some shows are 20 minutes long because they're made to fit a 30-minute cable slot with ads (or whatever reason) doesn't make longer shows bad in any way.
@@imsentinelprime9279 wrong
@AngelicHunk did I ever fcking say that longer shows are bad?. Stop putting words in my mouth man.
@@imsentinelprime9279 I'm not being provocative. Yes, your harsh, drastic wording implied some kind of absurdity about the show's length (and absurdity is usually bad) - as if shows that are an hour long are somewhat ridiculous because of it. It also didn't help that you seemed eager to contradict the point of the original comment: that the show is *good* within its limited span. If you think the show is good, then great, but then I don't see what your original reply contributed since hour-long shows are normal.
"This is >*literally*< the equivalent to a 24+ season.": a contradiction, with a hyperbolic "literally" for emphasis.
"All the episodes are almost a >*fcking*< hour long.": an obscenity for emphasis and to describe the shows length.
the way yabushige died, i thought he was a coward, but he went straight for the stab like it was nothing, what a badass, i kinda felt sorry for him tho he was just being played by torinaga,
Toranaga gave him many chances to be 100% loyal, however he never fully trusted him. And rightfully so, he did exactly as Toranaga expected, which is to go around his back and do weasel sh*t. Yabu tried to play both Toranaga and Ishido, and ultimately killed himself ironically.
“No translator”
“Let your hands be the last to hold her”.
😢😢😢
Love how the end reveals that Toranaga was a political savage and basically used everyone of his vassals to get to his true goal which was to be Shogun. I mean it was hinted way back in the flashback with the previous leader and thats how you know this show is a ten when they can foreshadow and connect the opening of the show to the end of the season.
While I don't disagree with what you're saying, you know this is based on a book. So everything was already written, so of course they can foreshadow everything that's coming lol
Yes he was one step ahead when it came to the strategy. But he also had a lot of luck that is not in his control. Few examples that I can remember is Blackthorne showing up, eventually leading to him being saved during the earthquake. Also the son dying accidentally, giving him 40 days more time to plan. etc.
That's why he didn't claim to "control the wind" rather used the cards dealt to him, in that sense he's a genius and master mind.
@@Blackd0nuts you know people usually write the whole script before filming right? So even if it wasn't based on a book they can foreshadow it because they the direction they want the story to go. Most things aren't like marvel movies where they film act 2 without knowing what happens in act 3.
when did he become shogun? nothing happens… are you kidding me? the show is just a giant cock tease
“Let your hands be the last to hold her.” - Fuji
When a line like that comes back around from the beginning of the show to the finale of the show then you know that’s when the show was given great passion to. Emotional scene and yes that’s what I was okay with. I didn’t need big big action for a finale. Sorry to those who did want it but that’s wasn’t the story.
I loved that scene. And no, I'm not crying (sniff).
a big finale ending where 40,000 men die medieval style was the story, so don't read history softy
"Let your hands be the last to hold her" - Fuji
Beautiful words either way. One of many heart string moments in this amazing series.
Your quote feels like a curse lol.
The correct one is:
_“let your hands be the last to hold her”_
Ohhhh I forgot that Mariko made that same comment to Fuji about her son. I totally missed that but now that you bring it up, it makes total sense. Great writing
Ladies of the willow world. What is not as clear from the series as opposed to the book is that the Madame gives Torenaga intel on what's happening at court and that Lady Ochiba might change allegiances.
Oh, wow. That would have been a cool thing to see in the series. Thanks for that info! 😊
Toranaga's son I noticed didn't just slip on a rock, he stepped on the guy's robe and he yanked it up pulling his foot with it which caused him to slip and hit his head.
I want a season 2 buddy comedy, set in an alternate universe where Yabushige and John have their own adventures in London and everyone was looking forward to Crimson sky when Crimson sky is just Mariko all along..its brilliant
Last Episode the silence from the grieving just looking at their facial expressions spoke a thousand words. Truly gripping it touches your soul.
Sanada better be in the Ghost of Tsushima movie (perfect to play the uncle). Chad Stahelski is directing, Sanada was in John Wick 4.....it's bound to happen!
I really hope this show gets recognized at the Emmy’s. It deserves it.
I know this show is meant to be about the characters, but I would have loved to see the battle of sekigahara.
I said the same exact things. It would be a crime if this series didn’t win at least 20 Emmy Awards! 😜 Seriously though, I agree that a season 2 focusing on the Battle of Sekigahara would have been so good! Watch everything play out and witness the total victory and what happens afterwards. Wouldn’t the announcement of a season 2 “epilogue” be a nice surprise for the fans of the show? That would be legendary!😮
I actually appreciate that they more or less gave us the same epilogue in the show as the book. They didn't try to "improve" the book, and stuck with the ending they had.
The faithfulness to the source material, which is a well earned masterpiece warrants untold praise. Even moreso, there faithfulness to capturing feudal Japan may be some of the best work ever made (though in my honest opinion, only Clavell's third best book - he was just that fucking good).
I cried so much throughout this series. Personal issues and BS. This show was a needed reprieve and honestly has helped me keep going. Constantly referring to living and pushing through is an underlying theme that i didnt know i needed.
I know its dumb, but damn i would watch a spinoff of john and yabushige traveling old school england/engaging in random historical events.
It felt like an experience watching this week to week. Not being spoiled and just enjoying the ride. Top 10 show all-time for me.
I would have actually liked to have seen the battle of sekigahara. It’s one of the most important battles in Japanese history. But I guess it would have been too expensive and taken too much time.
It’s not in the book nor in the original mini-series but I hear ya. It woulda been cool.
That battle takes place like 15 years after this. I think this was a good ending for this series. He tried the whole time to win without war and he did
I'd like to see Blackthorn's cannon regiment show up on the battlefield to strike a critical blow. 😂 Nothing fancy, just a minute long shot of the battle from birds eye view and cannon balls taking out Ishido's generals. No sound, or dialogue just music then transition back to Toronaga's conversation.
@@slanderpop8771 The Siege of Osaka takes place 15 years after this, not Sekigahara.
@@LizardSporkthat would be cool, but I guess the point is that blackthorn is not important at all, he would not change the course of the battle whether he is there or not
Did you guys catch where in episode 1, Yabushige faces the ocean, after realizing he was going to drown, he was willing to take his own life to fight fate. In the final episode, he faces the sea accepting his fate with Toranaga as his second.
That was his chance to be eaten by hungry fish and he wasted that good death :(
I got my 75 yeard old mom to watch this with me when I visited, and for context, she has a chip on her shoulder about asian countries due to her father fighting in ww2 and Korea, plus she doesn't like foreign films in-general. After the first episode I asked do you want to watch something else, she said "oh I thought we were watching more?" She was HOOKED till the very end when we both shouted "WHAT?" at the ending, wanting for it to keep going. That should tell you just how good and powerful this show is.
Mariko is the best character of the show, hands down !
Hiroyuki Sanada was also in the MCU. He played the guy who fought Hawkeye in Tokyo in "Avengers: Endgame".
Hes in many more than that. He's also Scorpion from Mortal Kombat, He's in the last samurai, he's in Rush Hour 3, John Wick 4, Life, etc
He also played in Wolverine movie 2 I believe.
He's been in the film and show businessses since the 60's here in Japan 🗾 The number of films and shows he's been in exceeds almost every actor from the U.S. aside from a handful of individuals like De Niro and Eastwood
lol... he's famous. Been in tons of stuff..
He was also in Last Samurai
Battles can be nice, but overall, it's the story that counts. And this show respected the history of 1600 Feudal Japan. The characters were well written, well acted, and the story was engaging and enthralled me. Amazing what can happen when you base your TV series on a completed piece of work like Shogun by James Clavell. It respected the work of Clavell's book right up to the ending. I will be rewatching this series again. Also, concerning Game of Thrones, I've been rereading the books which includes all five main books, as well as Fire & Blood as well as A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. The show sucks compared to the books, period. Yes, even the first few good seasons, but they changed SO much from the books and I enjoy the story from the book SO much more on my second reading of these books. Shogun beats the PANTS off of the HBO GoT show hands down. Amazing show! I've even gone back and watch the OG TV series from 1980. I was 14 back then, and FX's show is so much better. The 1980 show, while still good, is kind of cringy to watch. It seems to be a bit silly at times too. But then, it was made for TV back then. Kudos to FX on this TV show. The best TV show I've seen in ages since, Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.
Lol the Anjin having blue contacts (sometimes comical looking) and straight hair (his irl hair is curly and his eyes are dark brown) makes no sense whatsoever.
I found the ending a bit anti-climactic BUT when immediately reflecting as I watched I feel that fit, the whole purpose of the plan was to not have a battle, and the fact that we didn't get a battle means more depth is given to Toronaga's plan.
Unlike the end of some, like GoT. The ending didn't betray anything that lead up to it.
I think Blackthorns continued behavior is less of him being a lord (Hatamoto) and more being a foreigner. As Toronaga says at the end, he keeps him around because he makes him laugh, basically an awkward pet that is so strange in how it acts its entertaining.
I agree, it was cool to piece together how it would all turn out after the fact. I couldn't focus at work the entire next day because I kept thinking about it lol
Yabushige is what an old proverb would say " dog that tried to bite two piece of meat would end up losing both" , by playing for both side thats what seal his fate, also prob my fave character in the series because as human we dealt with the card we got.
Yo Alex is a real one for mentioning band of brothers. That show was great!
Another 10/10 show!
the most beautiful work of Television art that I've seen in a long time (since Better Call Saul)
best show of 2024 hands down. I feel so honored to have lived through this experience
Ultimately people give Toranaga more credit than I believe he'd give himself, there's hints towards this throughout the series. An example is his clear sign of relief after receiving the poem confirming the Heir's army was on their side or the story of him as a young lad cutting the head in one blow when in reality it was 9.
Even at the end, he says I don't control the wind, I simply study it. He plans and adjusts where needed in a way he thinks will work, but he's not a God, others will do that job for him, they will mystify him.
I'm bump about with how gore the show was is that they didn't show Ishido's fate from the book. He's put into earth with only his head sticking out with a bamboo saw attached next to it and a shogun order for everyone passing next to it to cut at the most famous neck in the land. The last sentence of the book is: Ishido survived 3 days and died
"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence. Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
From someone who hasn't read the books I was a bit bummed out that there wasn't an epic battle in the final episode. It just felt like it was leading up to that. It was still a fantastic series though and the acting from all those involved was amazing!
A movie or 2 part would solidify a 10/10
Yabushige did everything he could to avoid death, ironically still met his end
He bet on the wrong guy
Yabushige thought he could play both sides, but he didn't realize Toranaga was moving the whole board.
@@Heartracer actually he was betting on anyone, he'd be willing to bet on Toronaga if he knew stuff but he isn't really trustworthy, and even after all his time with him, he still doesn't know that Toronaga always has something up his sleeve
Some days, some nights; some live, some die; in the way of the samurai; some fight, some bleed; sun up to sun down; the sons of a battlecry...
I see you have great taste
A person of culture
How dare you give it only 10/10! I demand you give it 11 or 12! 😂
54:00 if you go back and watch carefully you can see Toranaga greasing up the rock his son slipped on with *_ACME Slippery Grease™_*
As much as a big battle would probably be quite enjoyable, the reality is the war was already won the moment Mariko died, making any battle particularly pointless.
Read the book as a kid 20 yrs ago saw the original series from the 80*s too and still to this day is my favorite book !
Was always my favorite book as well, now second after the entire Outlander series. Still, such an excellent read. One of the few books I've read multiple times.
Shogun just proves that you don’t need a Dragon 🐉 to win a war
Holy crap I just realized I have that book after seeing Alex holding it. My grandfather had given it to me years ago. Gonna have to read it now.
I had friends tell me that they enjoyed Fallout more than Shogun. _I offered to second for them at sunset._ They declined for some reason.
Both are pretty top tier Television, I think at this point it's just a matter of preference as to which you enjoy more
There's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has to like the same thing. If you liked both, then you can enjoy the many varieties offered in life. Nothing is more annoying than a stickler that looks down upon someone else simply because they did not enjoy the same thing as you.
So you went back and forth they commit seppuku you become shogun
Nothing wrong with enjoying both for different reasons.
they are great in their own way. Like apple and oranges
First series where when it cut to a different story/timeline I wanted to SEE IT ALL, EVERY PLOT LINE, EVERYTHING. And damn, that LOVE story HIT!
Disappointed there ain't gonna be a season two wished they would of showed how he took control and some big battles. but it does make sense to leave it there has he has already really won.
Based on a book. Made in 1980 tv show. Then a remake. First: am glad there's no stupid woke black gay, Trans idiots in it. And if they were part of the extras, good for them for not showing it. Second: They could definitely make a season two and just take on another book, or Japanese history that continues the story somehow. Much like the video game Ghost of Tsushima, make that into a TV show... How Kool would that be??
fingers crossed that they will adopt another book by James Clavell, he has a whole "asian series" with different countries and time periods. Haven't read them, but if they are anything like shogun then i want it
@@KevinUchihaOG I want Gaijin, we would have the start of the "Toranaga" Shogunate and then the end of it 200 years later.
@@jdpc9391 They need to do Taipan first, alot of events and characters in Taipan have an impact on the events of Gaijin. Also a Hong Kong setting after the Opium war sounds sick.
@@thitran1362 I have yet to read Taipan. I need to read the rest of his books... I'm just a sucker for anything Japanese/samurai.
The son dying was the most ridiculous scene of TV in recent memory!
When they made such a big deal about "Edo" i had to google it and obviously, today Edo is...
Tokyo
The real life Toranaga, after becoming Shogun, went on to build the Imperial Palace that's still being used by emperors to this day.
@@mickeyveach3612 real life toranaga got punished by the taiko and sent to edo. back when edo was nothing and just plains. funny that made him avoid getting bankrupt by the korean war and made him rich.
It's actually crazy how you can rewatch the show and see how much toranaga has Blackthorn on strings like a puppet. Everything he does is to get his loyalty, to even when he planned for Blackthorn to go behind his back. It's crazy how the ending completely recontextualizes his actions.
This show was like what BG3 was for gaming last year
Spoilers warning for the final episode:
Even though not getting an epic battle at the end was kinda anti-climactic but it actually makes sense for the show, since it was more of a political/bureaucratic chess game & character driven series.
Last Samurai is a masterpiece, I will not tolerate any slander towards it outside of historical inaccuracies. In terms of story telling, emotion, scope, musical score, battles, etc... it's an absolute banger.
Agreed 😊
Yes but if you even have a basic knowledge of Japanese history and customs its a BS fest and you have to stop your brain complaining all the time. Just alone the nonsense that he wont use guns (because he will not dishonour himself) while the Japanese at this point in time were using guns for over 300 years.
Agree I love that movie
It's in my top 10..it's an amazing film.... When I hear someone say it's crap and is a white savior film I assume they either haven't seen it or missed the point of it 😂
I'm not a Tom Cruise fan.
This is the kind of show I'm glad I watched one episode per week. It lingered in my mind all the way until the next one.
Bro I'm gonna miss Shogun Tuesdays
Felt so betrayed by toranaga at the end 😂. He was introduced as an honorable guy who was being set up because of his name. In the end he proved to be just as bad or worse than the other regents, sacrificing everything (including his son) for his selfish ambitions. Was actually rooting for the regents at that point lol.
Anyways, great show
its for greater good. because of his sacrifice Japan DID live in peaceful period for 400 years.
He did what was necessary though. As cruel and savage as it seems, it was all for the greater good of Japan. That's why his followers, were 100% loyal to him. And the alternative would be Ishido which would probably sell Japan to the Portuguese.
@@tenzintsenpey5274*250 years, Japan was certainly not being peaceful by the 300-ish mark
@@Nolaris3 you get the gist. 250 years is not a short period of year. It all changed after the Meiji restoration. I'm pretty sure if the restoration didn't happen, it will last longer.
He and his clan were already marked for death by the regents. Don't forget, he was to be impeached, which meant certain death. That would result in his clan dying or being discarded. Considering Mariko's fate and how she was treated, I don't think the regents would have allowed the people loyal to Toranaga live in peace. So Toranaga had to play the game, not just for the future of Japan, but for his clan's survival.
Mariko is literally the PERFECT example of a non BS obnoxious strong female character, she's intelligent and mentally fortified. Most importantly the show makes it clear that if those guys blocking her from leaving Osaka really wanted to kill her they could have easily, unlike all the movies and shows that have women beating up men.
Eugh, “not woke” is such a telling way to describe it. Thought we left you cats back in 2015.
@@italianwaffle5592 Uh, what
Everytime I hear the word "woke" used by anyone, in this context or another, tells me all I need to know about that person.
@@italianwaffle5592 da hell?
Better than the Blue Eye Samurai heroine for sure…
Series was so good that, i am intrigued about the book.
Blackthorne finally found the freedom to be free of himself
At odds with the times in wars with no lords...
@@cooleycollege01a freelancer, a battlecry of a hawk make a dove fly and a tear dry
Wonder why a lone wolf dont run with the clan. @@MrVince329
The footwear are fine for this time, we can see many japanese people wear them in a lot of paintings from this period, what is NOT historically okay is the way that they get rid of the blood on the sword, the flick of the blade is not a thing before the kenjutsu get changed into a more spiritual/artistic form, but it's cooler than just using a piece of cloth.
I loved that show like I loved the book and the first one. It's interesting to see the three of them and then compare with what we know about Japanese history, martial arts and how these are shown in video games, anime, series and movies. I'd really enjoy a show about the Shinsengumi.
There is a saying in Japanese history classes: “Nobunaga made the mochi, Toyotomi pummelled it, and Tokugawa ate it.” Tokugawa’s patience, strategy and luck made him the Shogun who ushered in the Edo period when Japan began its isolation policy. The novel is loosely based on historical characters and events, with plenty of creative license taken on the characters’ motivation and dialogue. Check out Metatron’s channel for historical analysis and comparison between the novel, the original 80s series and this new one. Fascinating!
No translator
“There’s also a dubbed version on Hulu, so if you’re an idiot you can watch that.”
How can you say something so controversial yet so brave?
this is how show runners correctly used women empowerment without treating the audience dumb
Great ending to a great series. Will be rewatching this show. Loved everything about it. Bravo to every single person that worked on this show.
The best scene for me in the finale was between Toranaga and Yabushige. I took Toranaga smile as a yes to Yabushige question about wanting to be Shugun.
Book recommendations on feudal Japan: Taiko by Eiji Yoshikawa, Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa, Across the Nightingale Floor (series) by Liam Hearn, The Tokaido Rod by Lucia St. Clair, and the Shike series by Robert Shea.
I read these to sate my hunger for feudal Japan stories after I read Shogun.
I grew up a huge fan of the 80s miniseries, because of that I was very unsure of what I would think of it. At first my bias made me grumble at the start, but by the end I was completely sold on it, fantastic series and for people who aren’t familiar with the material they get a great adaptation that fans of the book and old show will appreciate. Completely accurate? No, but the old mini-series wasn’t either; I’d compare this series to the Lord of the Rings trilogy as great series that was a great adaptation of a particular focus of the story. The 80s miniseries was focused on Blackthorne as an outsider for an audience of outsiders that opened a doorway to a culture that an American audience probably wasn’t ready to really look into due to recent past history. This series is for the people now accustomed to the culture but perhaps don’t know this particular story. I highly recommend watching the miniseries in addition to this if you need more, for the very least to see John Rhys Davies’ in his biggest role at the time that helped him get Indiana Jones and eventually the Lord of the Rings. With the caveat that it was more 80s TV melodrama than today’s historical epic. I would like to see what this crew would do with later books in Clavell’s Asian Saga, never read them myself, I’ve heard King Rat, at least is very good, going to start listening to the audiobooks of the series now I think.
dead give away for the old man in bed scene was a dream, when his grandkids asked him if it was true the sword was given to him by savages. at this point Blackthorne no longer considers the japanese savages.
Also, he was holding Marikas cross necklace in the dream, when in fact he placed it in the ocean with fujis relative ashes
How could you not put this at 11/10? Unsubscribing, disliking, unwatching, reporting, blocking, suing,
"VELCROING THEIR SHOES" omg what a diss
This is probably one of the best shows to come out recently
You all need to review The Blue Eye Samurai next.
Isn't that just a cartoon?
Long Overdue
Review a six-month-old show? I doubt they will.
@@FrozzenK It's for adults, and is pretty solid.
@@ProjectMathesar They did it with Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Joe reviewed it 11 months after it released
39:50 Toranaga's son actually slipped on the long, white gown above the rock, to which the back-stabbing bro responded, where's the beauty in this death? A callback to the convo they had earlier about the beauty of dying for a cause.
That was one of the dumbest scenes in the show. The actual death Tokugawa's eldest son is far more interesting.
You guys also don't realize the actor that played Yabushige also played Raiden in the 2021 MK movie. (Tadanobu Asano)
27:11 I think it’s hilarious that Joe wasn’t even exaggerating, that guy went all out during the kabuki scene
I still believe Sopranos and Better Call Saul gripped me harder but this had me super invested the whole way through
10/10 you can say that again.
I thought the dubbed version was still the actors speaking, all of the actors in this show are bilingual, so its still them speaking
I agree with AJ about the last episode in that they should've shown a little bit more of the final battle along the lines of the prologue scene in LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring, where Galadriel narrates the first war against Sauron where we actually see the elves and humans fighting Sauron and we see Isildur defeat Sauron. Just another 2 or 3 minutes of actual fighting would've gone a long way to satisfy a lot of fans looking for some action.
The battle in the book is told in one 5 sentence paragraph in the epilogue. So, they actually show more of it lol. What I'm bump about with how gore the show was is that they didn't show Ishido's fate from the book. He's put into earth with only his head sticking out with a bamboo saw attached next to it and an shogun order for everyone passing next to it to saw a bit of his neck. The last sentence of the book is: He survived 3 days and died
@@jdpc9391 Thats fine. You can flesh it out a bit more for dramatic effect. Show the armies clash, then during the fighting show Ishido shocked as the Heir's armies don't join the battle. Then show Kiyama and Ohno notice this and them also turn their back on Ishido. It would only only be another 1 or 2 minutes of extra scenes. It worked so well in Fellowship of the Ring why not use it here. The real life Ishido figure gets double-crossed during the actual battle as well.
@@joninosaka Yeah, i would have like to see the battle too but, thing is, It's not in the book for a reason. The war is an impending doom during all the book. I remember on my first read, i was like, shit will go down soon... 100 pages later, Shit will go down soon... The war is a looming threat but in the book, the story isn't less focus about Toranaga. You only get his point of view in the last 2 pages. The ending is suppose to show that he's a bastard like all the other great lord, Saying he doesn't want to be shogun the entire book until you realize this is the only thing he wants. He way more ruthless in the book and old show when you finally see his plan at the end. What they don't tell you in the book is that, his real life counter part killed the heir. He wasn't gonna become Shogun to protect the heir until he's ready to rule... His family ruled for 200 years.
There are several types of traditional theater in Japan, but the one in the show is Noh and is quite different and older than Kabuki.
as a long time Clavell fan, it sure was nice to get a modern adaptation that just nailed it in every way
They should make a series like this of The Kouga Ninja Scrolls. That’s another very famous novel set in Japan
It’s not the typical war tv series where the under dog will actually win the war in the end. Toranaga did not just win the war, I mean he prevented it, saving thousand of lives. He brought peace in the realm. Toranaga is a master politician.
Now, go watch Tokyo Vice
Plans within plans like no other.
Toranaga used Hiromatsu's planned Seppuku to force Yabushige to break his loyalty to him.
And the effect of Mariko's sacrifice grew 10 fold because of it.
glad to see (and hear) you got the names right this time! on the play its called Noh, not kabuki. whats the difference? i have to 'peel the layers' again. love the show
Also, Toranada, has many sons. Toranada needed time. It is not direclty told to the audience but it can be surmised that Toranada ordered his son to attack his brother knowing his son would fail, most likely expected to be cut down. However, death was the expectation because the result allowed Toranada 49 days of mourning. As noted later, this gave him time to gather his power. He also had to create and play the part of a defeated man so his surrender would be UNQUESTIONED... he needed all the lords to see him as weak as possible, which he specifically tells Mariko before he sends her off to fulfilly her duty - aka she is Crimson Sky (her death ordered to be at dawn, when the sky is red). His son and his top general was sufficient reason for any lord to believe his surrender to be truthful when in fact he was just buying time.
Hmmm nah I think Yoshii was just incompetent. As savage as Toranaga was, that's still his son. Remember when the uncle told him to commit seppuku and Toranaga stepped in to say "don't accept it." Also it made him physically and emotionally sick for like a month. There's also the scene where he thanks him for his sacrifice and which bought him the 40 days time, showing that he did care and love his son.
@@soapa4279 There is no doubt he cared for and loved his son. However, his son has his duty and he ordered his son to die for the house and for Japan, in service of his lord. He didn't want his son to commit seppuku because his son committing seppuku would be different than his son failing in an assassination attempt - the former being an admission of guilt/surrender for Toranaga's house. He could explain off the brash response of his son attempting to kill his uncle but he could not explain off his son choosing to admit and accept the seppuku order... there is subtlely in culture at play here, politics.
As far as being sick, most of that was a ploy, again to further his act of being completely broken - it was all a show, hence the scenes of Noh theater and his admission to Mariko before he sent her away that he needed them to believe his fall was complete. It was a ruse and one he needed to have in order to sway those in Osaka to his side and against Ishida, more specifically, to help sway Ochiba.
@@ash072 Yeah very good points. I only think that as a whole Toranaga did not plan out every single thing, rather he knew how to take advantage of situations given to him. And he used those to plot out his next 2-3 moves. When Yabu said to him "How does it feel to control the wind?" and Toranaga says "I don't control the wind. I only study it"
That's just why I don't think un-aliving his son was part of his plan. But it just happened to play out that way.
@@soapa4279 Well we need to see who roused Toranaga son to action it was Omi, but in the last scene Toranaga tells Yabushige about why tell a dead man future - the same words Yabushige said to Omi so that can imply that Omi was Toranaga spy all along and did his bidding.
@@basilhanas8453 OoOoOoh I didn't think about that. That makes sense, definitely some 4D chess with Omi.
Watching this show on Tuesdays with my girlfriend became a weekly tradition, such a great experience
Thank you guys for making this video in 17th century portuguese!! 😉
I don't want season 2, the story is complete. BUT I do want this team to make another show.
James Clavell made other novels about Japan. They may choose to adapt those in the future.
True as sad as it is. No need to dragged like another show for like 3-5 season and main plot is lost
@@ash072 what the other novels about? Stories?
@@snowshock8958 He has an entire Asian series. Most take place in China, but he has another one called Gai-jin that takes place in Japan at the end of the Shogunate in 1862.
@@ash072 cool I did not know about this. I will go search more about it.
Gai-jin? Isn’t it like foreigner?
This show had better visual, better action scene and better scene showing the politics. Basically, every scene between only the Japanese are better, but the old show was way closer to how the book is told. The book is basically a journey you take with John at discovering Japan of the Sengoku Jidai. All the scene that are in both shows are better in the old show when John Blackthorne is in the scene. This show was great, but for me, the old one is the best book to TV series ever made (it's not perfect, there are changes too but what is there is so close to the book!). Really, if you loved this show, watch the old one, they complete each other at telling almost everything that is in the book. This new one was a great show, the old one is one of the greatest ever!
As a guy who read the book 5 times
This shows the pros:
Are way more Japanese characters (the five members of the council aren't in the old show). Great Japanese political scene.
-Yabushige (Kasigi Yabu in the book): He's not as accurate to the book as in the old show but he's actually better than the character in the book (he's the only one who is for me).
-Visual and badass action scene.
The music is great (but I prefer the more "traditional music of the old show, I can sing them but I can't really remember any theme from this one.
My biggest con:
Blackthorne: Almost every scene with him is less good than in the book and old show. They changed so much about him, about what he does, they removed almost all his best moments of "taking back control over his life". I could go for an hour explaining how they remove all his agency in the story. The Teki Scene when he first meets Toranaga is one of the scenes I hated the most in this show. The entire "unless you win" moment (which actually happens in this scene and is the first moment Toranaga laughs and loses a bit of his rudeness) was so underwhelming in this show. The map moment was better than in the old show but way less than in the book. In the book, he is never asked to draw the map. He does it to gain "control" over the moment. He realizes that the Japanese know nothing of the world and have been lied to by the Portuguese and take the opportunity. It's the thing with the book Blackthorne, He fucking bright and uses every thing he can to his advantage. The relationship between Mariko and John is a far cry from the one in the book here too. And we skipped Mariko's funeral, Blackthorne missed it?? In the book he's there and he's also blind at that moment.
But an even bigger con than Blackthorne for me was Rodrigues, The Spanish pilot. He's one if not the best characters of the book and he's the best character in the old show, played by John (Gimly) Rhys-Davies! He's doing it to perfection. The Rodrigues in this show was the most Secondary forgettable character ever and he and Blackthorne are supposed to become Friendnemies. Apart from saving their life one after the other in this show, they had no chemistry together... REALLY, watch the old show if you want to see the best character in the entire book played perfectly!
Great video reaction gents. Loved watching the glowing review on this show!
Glad I could make it long enough to see Alex book, before getting trigger with a double tinnitus.. I personally decided to rip mine appart in two after ~600 pages.. was hard to read the interior of the right pages ^^
Yabushige and Buntaro are the definition of a nuanced characters. Played to perfection.
Consider that the actor playing Toranaga also helps produce the series.
the mama-san (Gyoko in the book, Gin in the show) actually had a more pivotal role in the book as she gave Toranaga 3 secrets that he used to great effect to eventually win
A LOT of people are going to say it was bad bc no final battle for sure
It was bad for no conclusion, the show was about the characters and told us nothing about what happens to them.
Absolutely amazing series. I only hope this leads to them adapting some of the great stories from japan. I would love to see a series based on something like Zaitochi, Miyamoto Musashi or maybe Seven Samurai or Yojimbo.
Actually Buntaro's father tells him he will live knowing what it is like to be DENIED death. Like he has done to Mariko.
The novel has ended, but Japanese history is going to be interesting from now on. It would be a shame to end the Shogun series without seeing the battles with Ishido's army (Battle of Sekigahara), Ochiba who defected to Toranaga and led the unification of Japan, and later Toranaga's (Autumn Siege) (Winter Siege) where Ochiba and her son attacked Osaka Castle. They should definitely make a season 2.
I also would hae loved to see some more conclussion to the show, like why did Blackthorne returned to England or some footage of him building Toranaga's ships
I dont even mind not seeing a big climactic battle between armies. Thats not what this story was about. Its about the characters. Mariko did something no army could do. Not showing the battle gives marikos sacrifice more impact.
No it saves hulu money
@@lethalexponent6they were adapting the book. The battle wasn’t in the book. The looming battle was always just set dressing; it wasn’t the point.
@2yoyoyo1Unplugged at least house of the dragon plans on paying off the build up that's the difference between good tension building and lazy production
It quite was literally about winning the battle lmfao what?
@@BabyGollum The battle wasnt in the novel either. Says enough about the story it wanted to tell
Yeah I wish we could have seen the battle and the fleet Anjin builds
I think we all needed to be reminded what writing, acting, and cinematic excellence looks like. It feels like we have been wandering in the desert and finally we have come to a fresh spring.