Is Weekly Shonen Jump DYING?!
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- Hello and welcome ladies and gentlemen, today I'm grabbing a video by Fornever World and using it as a starting point to a very important conversation... Is Shonen Jump dying?
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Fornever World video: • SHONEN JUMP NEEDS TO L...
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An excellent, level-headed assessment of the situation that Jump is going through now. I agree with you, Jump is going to be fine.
Great response Crash! I don't really see this as just a response to Fornever but also the Jump fandom as a whole, the notion that "Jump will die" has always bothered me since its such an absurd claim when you look at how big the magazine is! Everything you brought up just paints such a clear picture of where the magazine is and Jumps lifecycle as a whole, like when you mentioned the 1994-1996 period where Jump lost some of its bigger heavy hitters only to get some of the most celebrated and recognizable Jump manga in the coming few years!
If one day Jump does cease its physical publication and merge its library online it'll be a sad day because I love what Jump is and how its structured. But like you said you believe it has at least a couple decades left in it, and I definitely agree!
Thank you! Yeah, I used Fornever as an example, but if this wasn't a common thought among the community, I wouldn't feel the need to address it.
Yeah, Fornev is exactly known for his well thought out, rational takes. Frequently takes meotionally charged positions, especially lately concerning both manga AND non-manga/anime related topics. Its hard to take him seriously sometimes.
One piece being in break for a month had taught me that the magazine will be fine when it ends. I read every series published in jump and honestly the last month was fine with out one piece. Sakamoto Days is about to do alot of heavy lifting haha.
Sakamoto Days is one of my fav Jump series of all time, tbh.
I don’t think Jump is dying, I just think it’s going thru a change, from being known for having these big action series,to the newer stuff which is less action pack. Overall only time will tell
Yeah, there's definitely a change happening right now!
amazing video, very well put! I agree with pretty much everything you brought up.
I think we're at that point where a bunch of the current roster is just waiting their turn to get an anime.
As you mentioned, people always forget that Demon Slayer and Jujutsu Kaisen didn't become the huge megahits they are today until they get their anime adaptations.
And looking at the most recent Undead Unluck anime PV, I have faith that one is gonna go pretty well. Anyways, great video, Crash!
I'm really hoping UU does well, it definitely deserves it!
And thank you!
I’m so happy that I learned about these more correct information, or I might have believed him. He’s also one of the people who are just salty about series that he likes that got cancelled, without actually observing reasons like lack of promotion in ToC that indicate lower popularity. Also great point about Boruto and DBS being volume sellers as opposed to magazine sellers, because yeah, people are probably more likely not to buy Shonen Jump for Boruto or Dragon Ball Super.
I think everyone gets salty about series they like getting cancelled. Jump robbed me my Agravity Boys and I still ressent them for it. But I understand why the series got cancelled, and that's the main difference here.
Fornever is someone who clearly lacks the research needed to make these claims. There is a next generation coming up that is quite diverse with Akane, Sakamoto Days, Elusive Samurai, Blue Box and Yozakura Family who cater to a wide variety of tastes.
However, the classic adventure action longrunning series akin to Black Clover, One Piece and Hunter x Hunter are seriously missing from the magazine atm. It's not a problem for now since OP has almost a decade left until it wraps up and both the anime adaptations of the series I mentioned before as well as Jujutsu Kaisen, Spy x Family, Demon Slayer and potentially Dandadan soon will keep making TONS of money for some years to come.
However, the changed landscape of the manga industry overall, the dominance of isekai and RPG-trope dominated series in the high fantasy realm as well as a different approach towards work-life-balance make it hard for new series in the style of the late 90s to mid 00s action-adventure vein to pop up. Boruto and Dragonball Super are nothing but glorified fanfics stuck in the past of their respective franchises though - they just repeat the same expected plot beats like new transformations, Sasuke style edginess, etc. endlessly and offer no new impetus that could revitalize larger demographics. Ruri Dragon was the single breakout hit that broke through the 100k volume 1 barrier, but its author's health makes the future uncertain.
As you mentioned the decline of print media is another big factor, but as I outlined above Shueisha is doing fine with its digital offering as the Fujimoto squad seems to deliver in spades so far.
I think the correct option would be to be both more bold and more ruthless in their greenlit phase again. No more 20-30 chapters for obvious duds like Tokyo Demon Bride and Doron Dororon; thriving to create more unique and striking settings should be the top priority with titles Do Retry being a good first step - not in terms of quality and popularity (clearly Do Retry is failing there), but in terms of daring to be different by combining a gritty post-WW2 setting with martial arts! That's fresh, that might attract a ton of new readers! It could also just as easily backfire (very likely for the series atm), but at least it's not as boring to witness as the slow death of another mediocre manga like we have had too much of recently.
I love what you said. Personally it pains me to read that these isekia rpg works are STILL pervasively domininating comics and anime and even webtoons. And I'm so tired of it. This has been going on for well over a decade, are oversatuated with interchangeable boatload of them, all with generic aesthetics, and mostly low quality. Give battle shonen credit, there never felt like a million of them at any point in time and all looked very unique from eachother. This is biased as I never liked isekai, particularly the "modern" kind. People are enjoying it so I'm not begging for it die I just hate that this genre is eating away at every industry of comics because honestly its appealing to most boring low common denominator viewer with no life who just games. Feels like the opposite of innovative. And people act like its fresh but we've been seeing the same crap since I was barely a teen and now I'm well into my 20s. It can get a rest please?
I couldn't agree with you more that DBS is a glorified fanfic lol. I say this as a massive Dragon Ball fan.
@@paintbrush3554 My problem with the modern RPG inspired isekai is that being a NEET stuck in generic Dragon Quest land with overpowered "skills" is the very antithesis to adventure. There is no excitement when you know the hero can oneshot almost everyone (usually while stupid RPG exposition explains that he has the SUPER COOL LVL 99 INSTANTWIN skill), every female character will turn into a harem member eventually (Shoutout to crap like Sword Art Online and Mushuko Tensei) and that every "new, unique" culture they encounter will be copypasted from DQ 1-5 with a some added Japanese pandering like onsen. What's there to discover? Another way for a female elf slave loli to become harem member 12? Another starting RPG town with that famous circular city design that has a river in the middle, an adventurer's guild and an obviously corrupt local aristocrat that keeps the elf girl enslaved, but that the MC will free with his awesome, godlike powers? It's so obvious that it puts me to sleep just writing about it.
Meanwhile, actually creative fantasy series like Magus of the Library, Drifting Dragons, Soara and the Monster's House, etc. are barely known by most people - or by these hype UA-camrs.
@@TheShadowOfNidhoeggr This is literally so true. Its been the main reason I can't get into isekai. It would be more interesting if we had a unique protagonist with some interesting skills thrown into a new world. If we are watching this crazy fantasy world, I don't want to see it from the lense of the most boring person in the room who has no personal connection or understanding of said world. Which is the premise of most isekai. I'm also not a fan of harems, they're shallow and too unrealistic to be entertaining for me.
Like you said, these series get so big that people don't pay attention to better stories. The industry then thinks we don't want those series but want the repetitive shit instead. Hype culture really needs to be balanced out with more in depth looks at media.
I don't consume Isekai, but I'm enjoying this discussion
Great vid and outlook, summed up everything perfectly imo. It’s gonna be sad when it all goes digital but it will happen eventually, that’s definitely end game for this era. The biggest question is when will the switch happen and how will it be handled, but we don’t have to worry about that yet lol
No, I think we definitely still have a decade or so at least left.
Sick azz thumbnail and well spoken Crash 🎉
Thanks!!
One of The biggest problems with the english speaking manga reading community is that they rarely do proper research and often have a very limited perspective on not only manga but global comics as a whole (american,european, asian, and latin american). Not shocking that they are so Jump/battle shonen focused when they also tend to think American/US comics are only superheroes from Marvel and DC. Franco-Belgian comics and Italian comics would blow their minds haha
Good video! 🥳 Yes even I who don't keep up with Jump news (mostly do it through you) have seen people freaking out. And LOL of course physical media in general is dying, no need to call upon the mangapocalypse just yet 😂
Cue people with "THE MANGAPOCALYPSE IS NIGH!" signs in the street
Got to love rational and calm analysis of data without a bias.
That's what I'm here for!
I think dying is too strong a word but it does need to start putting stuff into place for other series to thrive and live on to make/continue the magazines success. LIke OP is the only series right now that has plenty of shelf life ahead of it to me, but once it truly ends, it will be sad, to say the least but other series are there hopefully by then to lessen the blow of such a legendary manga.
The end of One Piece is definitelty going to be a big, big hit for the magazine... and manga culture in general. But I don't think it will KILL Shonen Jump.
@MangaCrash Yeah, me either, but so many titles coming to an end in the next year or so while I love Akane Banashi and Sakamoto Days among some others it's going to take a lot more than those in the long run to sustain the magazine but agree with you in the video plus there's so much in the future that can happen
Well said
Thank you for making this video to show people shonen jump isnt dying its just changing and just like you showed wsj went thro the same thing in the pre 2k era and then got big hits after a decline this is why i have faith that atleast for right now shonen jump is far from dying out.
Yeah, we just got to wait and see. Big things are yet to come!
When One Piece ends I’m officially done with Shonen Jump I’m only going to read the older titles
I'm betting there's going to be a new cool battle shonen out by then.
That said, there's tons of cool stuff in the backlog, so I can't blame you
You are right there is a format evolution that is changing the way manga/comics are consumed. Needs a rethinking by publishers.
Yeah, I think things like Jump Plus, Bookwalker and manga reading apps are all things in the right direction.
I think when people say that jump is dying as the stuff you stated in the video and on top of jump not giving these new series enough time to create an audience or by the time it does it too late.
hey man great video, lots of solid points! i think the crux of forneverworlds points is that the shonen jump we know, being an action focused magazine, is dying. the sales of the rookie series and the vets will definitely keep the company afloat, but will it be the same action focused batlle manga driven magazine in 5-10 years? doesnt look like it. Thoghts?
Thank you!!
I think there's always going to be an action series leading Shonen Jump. My bet right now is that it'll be Sakamoto Days after MHA and Black Clover ends, depending on how UU's anime is recieved too.
I think we wont have the BIG BOY SHONENS, like I call them. Manga that run for more than 400 chapters, but the ones leading will most likely still be action series, just shorter ones.
@@MangaCrash understandable. I think it looks like jump is focusing more on family friendly titles like spy fam/Ruri dragon (I know it’s on hiatus but the sales definitely didn’t go unnoticed). The lack of big boy shonen imo will have a very noticeable gap in the magazines line up
I definitely wouldn't say that it's dying. However, a lot has to change in order for it to NOT die at some point. It's no surprise that weekly Shonen jump has been very slow with solid new series and all of the older gems are slowly disappearing. I'm hoping they figure things out, but then again who knows
I don't think they've been slower, as much as they took a huge blow with series leaving at the same time. In a couple of years some of the series we're dissmissing now will be much bigger names.
@@MangaCrash I don't think that's automatic, though. It relies on the idea that if we e.g. had seen the first 30-40 chapters of One Piece without context we wouldn't have gotten the sense that it was something special. Sure, we wouldn't have realized its potential depth, but OP, or Naruto, or Bleach, or MHA... they were all already clearly good by that point. Right now the only things I could claim are really good on Jump among the under 100 chapters new series are Akane-Banashi and the new MMA series. Undead Unluck is getting an anime and the manga seems already on its final arc (though I guess it'll go on for a while longer). Turnover has always been a thing, but with the tendency to do shorter series that we see now the balance has changed.
@@HaganeNoGijutsushi Maybe so for the series that are lower than 100 chapters. But we have a good amount between 100-200 chapters that will only now get more popular and they are pretty damn good already.
@@MangaCrash yeah but they won't last 700 chapters; they'll get somewhat popular just in time to end, like Dr. Stone, or Mashle.
@@HaganeNoGijutsushi They'll keep it up for a couple of years after they get popular, but they won't be 700 or likely even 400 chapters, no.
However, I'll argue that's enough to let other manga to start and become popular afterwards, and so on and so fort.
I don't think we'll have many more BIG Shonens, but I don't think that means Jump will die.
If jump survived the end of slam dunk then it can survive the end of one piece really.
This just makes me remember the end of naruto were people were killing the magazine too.
I think every time a big series ends people get worried about the magazine.
I feel like people in the west don’t realize how big Slam Dunk is. Which makes sense, because anime fans are a bunch of nerds who don’t like sports.
I think the issue is people expect that things like Blue Box and The Elusive Samurai picking up much slack. Non Shonen battle manga just don’t get that much of a boost in sales from anime. The only one I think will do well is Sakamoto Days, other than that, I don’t see too many of the newer series cracking 2 million units a year.
The thing that for Jump to be individually dying is that you need something to be true, that Shonen Jump is losing sales to the competition. Otherwise if everyone is losing sales it means the entire manga industry is losing sakes and Jump is still number one. The other thing is that if your average Jump series has a lower sales average but the total sales of manga is not decreasing it means that sales are spread out among a bigger amount of series or that the sales are concentrated more on Demon Slayer tier hits. Still in both these cases Jump would still be winning over the rest because they have the most and biggest of those concentrated hits and their low selling series still do better than the competition in other magazines.
Exactly.
There's really no competition to Jump right now in terms of popularity and sales.
Quality may be another conversations, but a very subjective one.
I hope forneverworld isn't in roger's manga of the year stream this year because it obvious he hardly reads any manga.
If WSJ is dying then every other manga magazine is already dead lol. It's moments like this when I get so tired of the english-speaking manga community being so Jump-focused.
Yup, by the time Jump dies, manga magazines as a whole will be in a very bad place.
Comic magazine/anthologies have more or less died in other countries save for a few titles like 2000 ad in the UK or Linus in Italy . It is shocking to me that Japan has had so many mangazines survive into the present day. Gotta hand it ti the slow moving nature of certain industries over there
I think Japan's culture with anthology comics is just really strong, so it keeps it alive while physical manga is a thing.
Besides, I don't know how it is everywhere else in the world, but I'm pretty sure the cheap prices of these magazines pay a big role in keeping them alive.
@@MangaCrash the cheapness definitely plays a major factor. Even in the collected volumes. The cheapness makes them an easy buy for most people.
I think the industry has changed sales most important the big three began slow would be cancelled today
Nice, calling out fornever for his awful take. It's funny he has that mentality when jump was running long before any of the big series today came along.
still can't believe samurai 8 turned out as badly as it did tbh. samurai in space!?? couldn't ask for a better premise and yet
Oh man, I get you! I need that premise done well!!
Yes.
Thanks!
Also, no idea why you think all the magazines will merge. Why would they? Each magazine has different audiences. If I read a Shonen jump manga, I expect to read something battle, or battle adjacent. Jump plus is more experimental, with series that are unconventional.
I didn't meant that they would merge. Rather that, if all goes digital, there will be less separation. Weekly Shonen Jump can already be found in it's entirely digitally with Jump +.
My main point is that, if there's no physical release, there's less pressure for a specific branch to deliver mega hits.
Also, Weekly Shonen Jump was never just Battle Shonen and action related. It always had just as much gag titles, and it always had a couple romance and sports manga running too.
Your expectations are just based on the most popular titles the magazine has and not the actual total of it's contents
@@MangaCrash I never said just. My main point is that the vast majority of Shonen jump titles are battle Shonen, or battle Shonen adjacent series like sports series. To say there are an equal amount of comedies to sports and battle shonens is ridiculous. Even now there are really only 2 comedies. And yeah, there are some romance, but the bulk of the series, and the vast majority of the sales come from battle Shonen, and battle Shonen adjacent series.
@@MangaCrash Also, why would there be no pressure to have mega hits. That is literally the goal of everything. No company just wants success, they want massive success.
I think it's funny people say jump about to die cause MHA BC JJK OP are apparently gonna end its hilarious as fuck cause jump was actually in exact same spot in 90s and guess what its alive
If your looking for a bunch of new manga series to review, might I recommend those from Saturday AM? I think youll really enjoy Apple Black for example 🙂
I can't lie... I'm caught up with a good chunk of the magazine and I only like ichinose and my hero academia. From a quality standpoint it's dead and buried.
That's fair. That's always going to be heavily subjective.
Personally I think Ichinose has been losing quality as it goes on, meanwhile I enjoy reading Sakamoto Days, Witch Watch, Blue Box, Akane-Banashi, Roboco, Undead Unluck, Yozakura Family, Black Clover, One Piece as well as MHA... So while not all of the magazine is perfect, I think it definitely has a good chunk of quality titles.
@@MangaCrash Yeah it could definitely be worse, what's doing it for me are the new titles. Aside from ichinose (which I agree has been dipping in quality) nothing else among the last year has been even decent. I still need to catch up on the magazine though because aside from mha and jjk I'm not caught up with any of the longer titles (dropped undead unluck early on).
Relax man we arent going anywhere you dont have to talk so fast
I try not to :')
that why im not reading manga i read comics that it now
You can read both
Jump wont die but jump as we knew it is on life support rn. Half the animes that are ending currently I don't consider classic. One piece is the last long running weekly shonen. And after one piece. I think that form of shonen will be dead. But we will still get shonen as it is a whole demographic not a genre