The Steeling Fallacy
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Steels are great when used in the correct circumstance. I am not suggesting you ALWAYS sharpen your kitchen knives on a steel, only when you don't have the time or desire to sharpen on a stone.
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I like how the voice over is serious, but the video samples (at the dulling) are somewhat humorous to me.
10/10 synergy
haha I had to mute the video when I was cutting banana onto the plate because I couldn't stop laughing.
It's very important to know how to use a product before you judge it's performance.
This was a good example and your dulling method was funny.
Keep posting good stuff! 👌
Glad you found it entertaining 🤣it was a mixture of edge cringe and laughter for me
Short and to the point! Nice to see this in UA-cam format as well. Todd had good luck with it. Dr. Vadim mentioned as well that it works great for butchers and chefs, and definitely keeps the knives cutting for longer.
thanks for the support! Cliff also mentions these in his ultra light grinding video. He compares the edge retention of a smooth burnishing rod vs a ceramic. Would have been nice if he also compared a ridged steel.
@@stroppystuff641I like the way you use the steel, would feel more natural for me as well.
@@lars43771 yeah I tried alternating sides, it was faster but I couldn't keep my angle or more surprisingly my pressure consistent
We’re about to see a rash of knife steeling videos but I’ll remember the original! Great explanation and demonstration!
I'm sure it won't be long until we see some others figure out how to use them 🤣
Great stuff! As a professional chef I do take issue with a couple of things. I don't find ceramic hones to be all that fragile, but if you do find yourself breaking them then try a DMT Ceramic hone. It's aluminum with a layer of ceramic over it. In feel and effect it's pretty much like any other ceramic but it's impossible to break in normal use. My issue with ridged steel hones is that all my knives are Japanese with a minimum hardness of 62-ish hrc; these really end to chip out if steeled on a ribbed steel rod. IMO, the best tools for a working chef are a ceramic hone and a leather strop...ideally doped with Stroppy Stuff, of course.😘🔥🙌
@@robbabcock_ thanks for the feedback! Regarding hard steels, I used this same honing steel on 67hrc s390 in the other video and that also gave me an edge I consider usable 👍
@@stroppystuff641 What kind of knife? I suppose that might be practical for a folder or EDC knife but Japanese kitchen knives are V E R Y thin behind the edge. Examining them under high magnification (meaning an affordable digital scope or jeweler's loupe) reveals a bit of chipping when a ribbed steel is used, but I suppose that depends a lot on the individual knife, the individual steel/hone and individual doing the honing! I really like a glass hone for harder knives but IIRC only one company ever made a ribbed glass hone and they don't offer them anymore. If I ever break mine I'm hosed!
@@robbabcock_ A shard from KKnives Switzerland. Sub 10thou bte
I keep a honing steel in my kitchen. It keeps my kitchen knives going a bit longer between sharpening on stones.
Outstanding content. The microscope doesn't lie. I sharpened my chef's knives (Victorinox and Wusthof, home use) two or three years ago and my F. Dick Dickoron steel has kept them going ever since. I use a technique I learned from another UA-camr: alternating strokes, three trailing followed by three leading per side. 30 seconds from less than perfect to shaving. Wish I could find that video again, so I could give credit.
Thank you for the video, like you have said, I have only seen people saying using a steel does not work, even though a chef friend of mine loves using them, and now I can see why. Thanks. I hope adding likes and comments will help others see this video before it is stolen by others like you have predicted haha, but at least other knife sharpeners will know more thanks to you.
Great video. I’ve gotten into this argument against literally dozens of “experts” in one post before on a Discord server. It was very frustrating. I received so much flak because I stated that I usually recommend a beginner who just purchased a nice kitchen knife to pick up a good coarse stone and a metal hone. Every single person either believed that steeling is just a myth perpetuated by old times and it was just placebo (crazy, I know) or that it is actually just creating foil edges and thus will force you to steel constantly to keep a sharp edge. There was even some science of sharp post they kept referencing that “debunked” steeling. Glad you showed how this is certainly not the case via the wood block.
I use Wusthofs and I resharpen them maybe once every other month and steel them after every use. They stay hair popping sharp. Once I can’t steel them back to shaving sharp, I’ll sharpen them with 800/1000 grit stone and strop them back to scary sharp.
Yeah I couldn't believe how well steels work. I've never used one other than when I was a kid. I had assumed they were garbage because that's what all the new gen sharpeners say "outdated thing of the past". I'll be keeping this in my kitchen for sure.
Well said and I concur 💯
Great video! Love the dry sarcastic wit. Below I listed a ton of questions and quoted several things Dr. Kraichuk has said in the comments section of various articles. It's a little dense. I would love for you to do a video on practical edge maintenance and sharpening routine for various scenarious (home cook, professional cook, edc, bushcrafter, camping, hunting, etc.) i’m limited in the number of characters I can write so please see my follow up comments for a continuation.
Awesome video as always. Kindly keep up the great work regardless if someone else tries to copy you
Thank you!
I reset the edges on my kitchen knives with waterstones every few weeks but a steel keeps them in order between.
Another killer video. Well done and thank you for clearing up so much confusion and misinformation on this.
Yeah… if you have to. The service line can be a chaotic place. X50crmov and a steel rod are acceptable in this environment specifically. Not ideal for other circumstances
Yeah worked the meatworks for years , hygienic protocols don’t allow leather , they supply stones in a room where the stones stay , all you have is a steel on a chain at your waiste while you work , with no time outside of your breaks to go sharpen knives .Ceramic steels are good but break easily as everything around you is stainless steel, you bump you break it.
That's really interesting, I've even heard some people say only glass cutting boards are allowed in their kitchens because of hygiene issues, not even plastic!
@@stroppystuff641 I would dread to think of that , i boned beef sides came through every 35 secs (chain system),3 knives in a stainless knife pouch on waist and a fdick steel got you through most days ,unless bulls or dirty old cow came down, our slicers used plastic cutting boards on stainless benches .yes there are better ways to sharpen but not in that environment
@@barrylilley6392 really interesting to get some more insider knowledge on the environment thanks for sharing! The idea of having a stone setup in somewhere like that is just crazy. Microbevel are for sure going to be one of the strongest options
@@stroppystuff641 rephrase “ bring the edge back “ not really “sharpening” just get it better
Are you referencing my video? If not who's videos are you referencing?
Your video you where right these steel rods actually jagger the edges rather than sharpen it I agree with you
Fight!
@@slipperysteve2513 haha
I'd like to assume that this isn't directed @OUTDOORS55 since the man just seems so willing to learn even while trying to educate. His vid going back on not buying a double sided diamond stone as an ex.. Just now finally got one of my own a few days back. But, if it is actually about you, I agree w/@slipperysteve2513. Let them fight!! With microscopic, no cuts in footage, real factual shit.
In the words of @themotoroilgeek Science Instead of Speculation.
Hi Alex, I prefer not to mention names as the main focus of my content is demonstrating what I believe to be correct, rather than naming any individuals. Having said that there are numerous videos and forum posts perpetuating the belief that ridged steels don't abrade.
How hard is too hard to use a knife steel on? I assume if the knife is harder than the knife steel it might not work well.
Chef style knives are often not excessively hard so a large portion of times this won't cause an issue. A steel softer than a knife would still be able to burnish it and smooth burnishing steels are even a thing which exists. Having said that you'd certainly have more trouble and spend longer to revive a knife harder than the steel.
Concise and to the point as usual. I’d just like to add that I recently bought a strop and some compound from you and I was expecting great things…. well it exceeded my expectations! Without doubt the best stropping products on the market! Amazing work mate….
Thank's so much man that means a lot! I was worrying half way through that sentence I thought you were going to say you hated it 🤣
@@stroppystuff641 Building the suspense!! 😂
for a 58 hrc knife what high grit stone grit do you recommend to do touchups on ?
Good work mate, by the way just try some polish steel(steel with no groves) that's even better
I've got a ceramic (made by wusthof) and a regular steel. Neither do anything that I can detect. The ceramic just doesn't take off enough metal to make a significant difference. Nor does the ridged steel. If I worked in a kitchen and had to use a steel, I'd be using a diamond steel.
👍
Outdoors55 did one against steels. I lul'd
I mean, I'm going to go back and look at the footage again. I've got nothing against either man. Been subbed to @stroppystuff641 longer than @OUTDOORS55 and I'm down for whatever works in a pinch. I totally agree that in a kitchen during a shift, a steel is going to be the go-to. Hits solid common sense that one. Same thing with any not at the sharpening station scenario. But, will that be the best edge?
@@citizenatlrge ive subbed to outdoors55 since he started. Doesnt mean he knows everything.
@@tacticalcenter8658 of course not. i can't imagine that anyone does.
@@citizenatlrgeit won't be the best edge but it's certainly better than nothing. It really surprised me how sharp they get though and it's not a super fragile edge either, it doesn't just fall off in 2 cuts.
@@citizenatlrge -- @OUTDOORS55 shows exactly what happens by showing you the edge under a microscope before and after. He doesn't deny you can use it to get the knife back into a state where it'll cut paper -- he shows it doing precisely that. His only point that I can tell is that it's not a substitute for sharpening.
So long as the knife steel is significantly softer than the honing steel. The carbide content matters. HAP 40 at 63HRC won’t steel with a rod at the same HRC.
The content is good but not very scientific or rigorous. The soft paring knife is one thing, and for all the knives at 56-59 HRC it’ll work, but high hardness and high carbide knife steel will require a ceramic rod to get the same results.
The limited nature of your testing could easily turn into propagation of incomplete, if not totally inaccurate, information.
If someone takes the vid for stitching, I hope it’s to complete the missing information.
Nice bit of showing when those steel rods do work!
👍🏼🙏🏼🖖🏻
I also steeled 67hrc s390 if you check my other video. Worked just as well :)
@@stroppystuff641 what steel is that rod made of 😂. I’m trying to understand the physics. S390 at that hardness is being substantially abraded by a steel rod at lower hardness?? Is there edit cuts in the video?
Do you have a scientific explanation or just a claim? An edited video isn’t conclusive or convincing to me. Given the carbide level in the European version of T15 was either not at that HRC or something else is likely the answer.
Again, how does softer steel abrade a harder one?
Please don’t tell me to believe my eyes, that’s not evidence. As someone educated in the hard sciences, when you talk about getting genuine and good information and research out, I take it seriously. What you’ve done isn’t good science.
I’ll even watch the video and comment about whatever I find unscientific or misleading. Simply claiming it isn’t scientific nor is an edited UA-cam video.
@@adoseofdrew s390 is a Bohler PM steel. High carbide, high hardness
@@stroppystuff641 t15 analogue if memory serves correctly I believe 👍🏼🙏🏼🖖🏻
@@stroppystuff641 I liked the video. It raises other questions but a well done demonstration!
I just tried steeling one of my knives this way and it works great! Great video.
Good stuff thanks, DMT whetstone along with a no name diamond steel serviced me well, nobody's got time for that or can afford a set of good stones...
Norton aluminum oxide combination oilstone now in my home, picking up another diamond stone...
Great video with a good perspective.
Thanks take care
Great video,, thanks,, a while back I bought a Starrett chef's knife, and a Starrett Steel, the result is a very happy bunny, who wishes he'd bought a great Steel like this, years ago for chefs knives,,
I also give the Opinel paring knives a good rub, now and again,, result,,
All the best my friend,,
Thanks for the support John; great to see you've been having success with the honing steels too. They get too much bad reputation in my opinion
I did actually read that post on steeling a while back, and he does go into details on why and how it works. Iirc it causes adhesive wear, not abrasive. Functionally for a knife user its not different enough to notice, but I dont think its a myth that a straight steel rod doesnt abrade. But yes, everything has its place, just like knives that are "dishwasher safe". They are, just not your dishwasher, they are "safe" for industrial dishwashers but the ones we have at home will mess it up for sure.
In the article titled, "The Honing Progression", he says this in the comments:
Comment 1
"I think most people would be happy with the edge from a honing rod, provided they thin their knives down to 12-15 degrees per side. Stropping can obviously produce a keener edge, but I personally don’t find it lasts long enough to be worth the effort. If I had to pick one “finishing stone” for kitchen knives it would probably be the DMT Extra Fine."
Comment 2
The Spyderco stones and sharpmaker ceramic do not grind, they only burnish to remove metal by adhesive wear, and are essentially equivalent to a honing rod. I do think most people would be quite satisfied with those edges.
In the comments of the article titled "Carbides In S110V - Part3/3" he says this about micro-bevel angle and stropping angle:
"I think you need to keep the sharpening angle below 15 dps so that the increase in angle near the apex from micro-bevelling and stropping stays below 20 dps. I’m currently experimenting with 15V by sharpening just below 15 dps, micro-bevelling at 16dps and then using the diamond/leather strop to bring the apex up to 20dps."
Great video, steels are very under appreciated for being such a simple and effective option!
Sense at last. Thank you
It's nice to see others agree with this one, I don't know why it's such a hot topic
Hey; nice video. Steels are not all created equal, which one did you used in your demo?
Those of us who know, don't say a steel doesn't work, but that it leaves too coarse of an edge. When I was a chef and a butcher, I used a strop too keep my edges intact, but frankly in a kitchen environment, my edges could last a whole shift. A a butcher, I stopped every few hours and that kept me razor sharp. Another note is to not use a steel on a Japanese knife, as it destroys the edge.