It’s amazing how little work and pressure that needed to get sharp. You definitely opened my eyes to how hard I’m actually pushing when I use a rod / strop I’m even gonna lighten up on the worksharp system I have. Thanks for the info
Keep in mind that I'm deburring here, which requires very light pressure. It's okay to use a bit of pressure when you're removing material in the early stages 👍 good luck!
Strop......thanks for feedback. Deburring is and can be very frustrating. Much written and said about how to do it but for me, you have addressed it exceptionally well ...thanks.
Very informative video! It was difficult to see the light trick to visualize the burr. If you ever have time a short to teach this technique would be very helpful.
Thank you! I have experienced this very issue a few times. It has always been in the same spot on the belly. I got really confused because I know I had fully apexed along the whole edge because the burr was noticeable. As I progressed through the grits, reducing the burr, and doing the final deburr on the strop, the knife would be very sharp, except that area. Now I have the explanation, thanks to you. I just tried the flashlight trick on a newly sharpened knife and could see a tiny barely noticeable burr. I obviously have a flaw in my technique when it comes to that area of the edge that I have to correct. Excellent tip! Subscribed!
I've been able to get knives consistently shaving sharp for awhile now. But only sometimes have I gotten them tree-topping sharp or (comfortable) face shaving sharp without extreme angles and high grits. This might be the reason. Added to my favorites to try later. Thanks!
I never expected that it could be fixed with just a few strokes. I bet that I have this problem as well. I got some blades that just feel dull despite putting a lot of effort in them and one I somehow messed up in a weird way. It feels like a glass shard and will cut through things with ease, but it doesn't keep the edge. Yes, I know, I bet that my sharpening angle wasn't consistent...
Yes this sounds exactly like a burr which has been lined up with the apex, it will feel SUPER sharp for one cut, but it immediately rolls over after that cut or during that cut and dulls immediately. Sometimes when the burr rolls over or gets torn off it can also damage your underlying apex. You really want to minimise this burr as much as physically possible before attempting a cut. Good luck!
@@stroppystuff641 Thanks. I had wondered how the edge can be so thin when I'm not pressing it flat on the stone... I guess it's partially the steel to blame. It's too soft and apparently prone to burrs. I got another blade made of softer steel (looks like true medieval steel) which is really easy to sharpen and doesn't have this problem. The really high quality blades are much harder to sharpen, but keep their edge once I finished.
@@edi9892 a quick microbevel is a very good trick for dealing with stubborn burrs on softer steels. Increase your angle by a couple degrees and do an ultra light edge leading pass on either side, if stropping then strop at the normal angle afterwards.
Wow, that's exactly where I'm stuck right now. Im deburring on a 1m felt wheel (T8) and land exactly where your starting point was. Able to cut cig paper, but still catchy and just around 120 bess. And I always was wondering how on earth there could still be a burr after deburring on the felt wheel on a guided system. Thank for the knowledge you share
I actually found this out on my own when I first started stropping. I thought I broke the secret knife code no one talks about. Really changed my sharpening game up
Btw I'm happy you're talking about it because it was really discouraging thinking I was rounding my apex with the strop or other mistakes when really I had a burr to get rid of. I hope guys new to sharpening find you
I did the same thing. That’s the best way to learn though. It really sinks in when you figure it out yourself rather than just being taught how to do it.
Interesting video. Coming from a woodworking background, where you almost always get a burr on a chisel or plane blade, I was expecting to at least feel a burr when sharpening my knives, so good to know I'm not doing something wrong when I can't feel it.
My last stone is an ultra fine ceramic (forget the grit). I constantly swap sides until all stone marks are gone from the edge and I can't catch a burr with light. Then a quick strop and I have an ultra fine edge that lasts.
I found this video and I watched it I m kinda new to sharpening and you just made me that much better over night well 2 nights that how long it took for me to get them spyderco triangle stones in front Amazon. I bought all 3 med, fine, and UF I went back to the past 2 knifes I put an edge on and holly shit I was amazed just wanted to say thank you verry much for this video cause this help out enormously. You deff have a new sub thanks againg bro.
Thanks! I'm glad you managed to find the video useful and are now having some success! The spyderco rods are great tools, the UF in particular is great for removing burr and they can all be used to add a quick microbevel if needed. Good luck
I learned how to strop years ago when my eyesight was still good enough to regularly use straight razors to shave with. That carried over to regular knives quite well.
Unfortunately you were taught incorrectly. If you tear the burr off before it's small enough you'll damage the underlying apex and sacrifice keenness. If you cut anything before the burr has been sufficiently minimised you risk it tearing off or being smooshed into the apex below it. It will be sharper than WITH a burr, but nothing compared to a correctly deburred knife.
@@Jmon808 depends on the level of sharpness that you're looking for at the end of the day. If you're mass sharpening knives for a kitchen then you might want to cut some corners. If you're sharpening for hobby /enjoyment then might as well do the best possible job 👍
I can’t seem to get any bite in my blades after sharpening. I can rub my 3 fingers back and fourth doing the Murray carter 3 finger test and I can really put pressure. Seems that no matter what I do I can’t get it to “bite” into my skin or a tomato peel. Although I could shave my arm or face no problem. I use a 1000/6000 king stone and have used the edge pro apex and I get great edges just no bite. I tried stripping less and stropping back wards on my 6k stone instead of a leather and still no use.. yet Murray carter and others seem to have no problem getting bite even with polish. Any tips?
In my opinion this "bite" that people get from a super high finish polish is just ultimate keenness and I believe you're rounding over your edge just a little too much. You can also get this biting property from a toothy blade, which will require you to progress no more than around 1k or so.
Good information with some ideas I'll try. I'm what I'd call a journeyman sharpener at this point and I sometimes wonder how much edge geometry and type of steel are factors. It's probably partly the relative amount of experience, but I'm usually happy with the results I get on kitchen knives, but have a harder time with the thicker blades. And I have to think the softer, tougher steels will have that reflected in a burr that's a bit harder to remove, and susceptible to reformation if you use too much pressure.
You're absolutely right, geometry plays an enormous role in cutting performance, especially in edge retention. There's a ton of charts that can be seen on knife steel nerds that demonstrate all of this. Steel also plays a large role as some just sharpen beautifully for example Rex 45 has an incredibly crisp burr removal.
@@stroppystuff641 As a complete newb, I have a new carbon Morakniv Companion and a new Buck 112 slim. Upon watching your video, I began a closer examination of their edges. What I found is a canal running between the two sides of the blade that I can slide my thumbnail in, down the entire length. What could that be? A Double burr? :) Thank you!
@@stroppystuff641 Yes, it goes along the entire apex. After I asked the question, was able to get a series of 3 lenses (including my eyeglasses) working together under bright light and the appearance is as if there are 2 parallel burrs.
@@thankmelater1254 this is something which people have observed in the past and talked about online however I've never experienced it myself. I'd suggest trying to deburr it and see what happens
Flashlight is another trick no one talks about that also changed my sharpening game. Sometimes a strop won’t deburr well for me and a few light strokes (steeper angle) on a wooden dowel then to a strop makes all the difference for me.
The flashlight trick is crucial to my personal sharpening process. I feel as though many of the high level sharpeners are beyond needing this trick and many many beginner and intermediate sharpeners don't even realise that a small burr can exist or have an effect on sharpness. There are then the heathens who drag through cork or wood to tear the burr off. I suggest this trick to everyone, it's game changing
If youtube algos' had their stuff together, I'd have seen your channel way sooner. Top notch stuff! I was taught by "carving a path's" vid' on tool sharpening that all burs can (and should) be removed by a good strop. Is that not the case? Love the flashlight trick. Thanks! Got a sub' from me.
Thanks for the support! Glad you found the video helpful.A burr can absolutely be removed by a strop but it all depends on your goals. For example if you want a coarse 400 grit edge then the burr will likely be too jagged and large to remove on a strop, it will also require loads of stropping and it will also scratch and damage the leather (if you're stropping with leather). My approach is always to deburr as much as possible (within reason) on the stones and then strop afterwards to remove any stubborn remnants and to further refine the apex.
I recall an old Cliff Stamp video where her said very very light strokes on ceramic improved edge retention. Not sure he knew why. But perhaps it was the removal of the difficult to see/feel bur?
I use the ceramic quite a lot, especially for a quick job. It was suggested to me by a friend who learned it from Cliff Stamp before I had come across his videos. I believe Cliff knew a lot about burr removal so it's possible he was onto something additional. Possibly a micro bevel making it a keener apex etc. Such a complex topic and so hard to test and prove anything without SEM images.
@@stroppystuff641 Yes. He was ahead of his time and quite the contrarian. Used a ceramic today to remove a bur. I’ve also used basswood strops- ones I made for the KME- also do a pretty good job.
@@tonycanniffe2360 I think when cliff was talking about light passes on ceramic it was more about light pressure control and it's effects on edge finish. He definitely knew about burr removal, as his while plateau sharpening approach was about having to minimize burr formation at the root.
I saw that video. He was excellent. I think his point was to show the importance of metal fadige during sharpening. The lighter the pressure while using a honing rod the better the edge retention. I stopped using round honing rods after that because they apply too much pressure comparing to straight hones.
Jewelers loupe helped tons with this. K390 is a great example of steel that I always get a tiny stubborn burr on. I’ve found deburring my wharncliffe k390 delica is harder than my k390 endela. I suspect it has to do with the flat shape, but I’m not sure.
@@stroppystuff641 honestly that’s likely what’s going on. I’ll kill the edge a few times and report back. You’ve used the heck out of your delica, I love to see it. It makes me actually care about your opinion if that makes sense.
Amazing info! Quick question, would you recommend I get the Spyderco sharpening rod for assisting with the de-burring process? I’m currently de-burring on a 1200 grit diamond and strop. Thanks for being such a great educator and business owner in the sharpening community! God bless you!
Thanks for the support and feedback! The spyderco UF is good because it's very very easy to deburr on in comparison to other stones. The rod is also nice because it's so cheap. If you enjoy sharpening as a hobby etc I think buying a UF rod is a good idea, there will always be times you can use it or experiment with it etc, but I wouldn't say it's a requirement to own one
Very well made video review!! Thank you for sharing ♥️!! I've been trying to learn, it's definitely harder than it looks!! Thank you thank you!!♥️♥️♥️🤗
Everyone should have a magnification device that is 40-90x. Even if you only have a 10 or 20x cheap jeweler’s on loupe you can see so much more and don’t have to do all that guessing. It makes a huge difference in your sharpening!
Can a burr whittle hair because I used a flash light on my knife edge thier was light reflecting except it was extremely faint, which leans me to believe it just the serrations.
Really interesting, just found your channel and subscribed. I always have trouble sharpening, seems a constant issue! :( I'll have a look at the website to see what you do there. Thanks - Gray
Is it possible to deburr to that level with a diamond plate if you're gentle and thorough, or do you believe the UF ceramic to be crucial following the atoma?
@@Aerzon1v1 hard to say. I've cut rizla before straight off an Atoma but it was very difficult and the edge was not as clean. In my opinion it just makes sense to move to a high grit for deburr
@stroppystuff641 I will incorporate this step in my minimalist system. I apex and minimize burr on an atoma 400, then follow that with a couple of light, raised angle passes on a Spyderco UF, and then strop on leather with your 1 micron Stroppy Stuff compound. I use my knives on very abrasive materials at work and can dull an edge fast. I can dull any Spyderco factory edge in 2 days. I'm trying to make as simple of a progression as possible. I don't enjoy overly busy setups with 6 stones and 4 strops. I appreciate the video on more complete deburring. And here I was thinking of giving away my Spyderco UF ceramic stone.....
@@Aerzon1v1 when I want a quick edge I usually sharpen on an Atoma 600 and then give it a quick deburr on something fine like the UF and maybe a strop too. I also dislike complicated progressions with 5+ stones. I personally never use more than 3 stones even when going crazy
I've started using your 1 micron compound on a little 1"x6" stiff leather strop. It works quickly to make the edge keener following the stones, It's what stropping should be like. The DMT pastes I was using before seem rather weak by comparison. Do you have any experience or opinions regarding the Venev resin bonded diamond waterstones?
Yes at the same angle. If you're using a particularly bad knife like a cheap kitchen "stainless steel" then you will be forced to increase bevel angle and create a micro bevel to knock the burr off. The worse the steel the more aggressive you will need to be with the angle
so what if u were sharpening on a 600 grit diamond stone, after burr is formed on both sides progress to ultra fine 3-6k stone to just deburr? or would you raise a new burr on the higher stone?
Coming in a little late, but if that's your progression, then minimize the burr as much as possible with edge leading strokes right on the 600, and then move to your 3000.
Has this delica been reprofiled or is it just an older model? Shape looks really flat compared to mine, but it also is missing some markings like the spyderco logo
My dad had ( in those days ) the mandatory 2 grades of stone ( grit) 3 grades of emery paper on wooden handles then a leather strop with a bit of oil. Yes he was once a butcher. I have enough vintage to have learnt all that but have recently wimped out and gone over to the dark side of V blocks or electric sharpeners. The Smiths ceremic V handle does a good job of final swipe after initial heavier cut. Lazy...yes , quick...yes !😎👍
I check the edge with a fingernail rather trying to feel the burr. Scratch the blade pulling your nail off the edge of the blade. You can feel a slight catch where the burr is present.
This works with a large enough burr, but it's possible to have a burr much smaller than one which can be detected by feel. It's also possible that the burr is pushed to the other side when touching it with your nail.
Great video. I am struggling with getting the burr off S90v. That stuff is so tough, leather strop does nothing. I’m going to give the ceramic stone a try. Otherwise, do you have any recommendations for sharpening the “super steels”?
I'd always suggest trying to deburr on the stones. Go for edge leading passes on a high grit stone (very light). Failing that trying a loaded strop, not bare leather.
There's always something new to learn about knife sharpening! What are your thoughts on using a steel? I find that a combination of steeling and stropping gets my edges to the sharpness that I'm looking for, but neither the steel nor the strop will do it alone. Isn't a burr just another name for a curled-over edge that can be aligned with a steel?
It's a common misunderstanding that steeling primarily "realigns" a damaged apex. First off, an aligned burr will last less than a single cut before it rolls over again or breaks away. Secondly steeling is usually used on chefs knives which are primarily used for slice cuts and therefore become dull from abrasion and micro chipping rather than rolling edges. In the case of rolls a steel will usually shear off the roll. Steeling primarily will apply a microbevel to a knife which is a very viable way of maintaining between sharpening. Micro bevels can be used to increase keenness to a dulling apex.
This is not my experience at all, at least with kitchen knives. After my wife (a trained cook) uses them I can often see damage (little roll or kinks/waves) on the edge. Using a mirror smooth polishing steel lets me push things back straight. Nothing is worn, broken or cut off and under a loupe everything looks like it did before and the knife is razor sharp again. Sometimes I will lightly use a very fine steel instead first if the damage is greater. The last time the knives were fully professionally sharpened was 2018 and with near daily home use they still shave hair. I have only needed to sharpen one knife, a small paring knife that she sonetimes abuses, for the first time last week since 2018. The point being under magnification I can see that the polishing steel does push the edge straight again. There might be some burnishing effect too. It obviously won't take any other damage out such as nicks etc. those call for a trip to the stones. I also usd the polishing steel on my 420HC knives with good results. Don't use on knives above 60rc such as Japanese knives though as they are too hard and you can cause damage instead but below 59 things seem to work.
@@stroppystuff641 yeah I know I literally pass the blade edge over the buffing wheel 2 times with minimal pressure just till I can feel that the burr is wither removed or so small I can't see/feel with my finger tips and the blade becomes alot sharper. But your video was really helpful. I need to build up my sharpening stones/set I'm using the lansky and can only get to 1000grit atm so I try do the best I can with what I have.
@@waynewhittal806 One cheap and effective way to get a 6K result is using Brown polishing paste on strop or soft wood. Grit may vary with manufacturer, 6K is for Pasta Jacaré. Another option is low grit diamond compound, something around 3-4 micron, result is probably faster than with brown polishing compound.
I found a ceramic rod takes the burr right off from my experiences anyways . Cpl swipes and it’s gone . I was having an issue with the burr and a u inform apex u til I got a magnifier loopy thingy with the light
The difference between the light reflection of a micro bevel and a burr is stark. Also in this instance performance increased dramatically which proves the burr assumption. You can also use magnification to check the apex or a number of other methods
@@stroppystuff641 after the brief pass on each side, if I see burr I always go back to the stone. It's merely an easy and underused method of burr detection.
@@stroppystuff641 absolutely. I try to spread the word as many people take a pass on a strop and don't even notice the surface of the leather being roughed up due to the burr. The answer is right in front of their eyes.
You can see when I first shine the light there is a line of steel which is reflecting the light differently than the rest of the bevel. This reflected light is coming from a tiny tiny flap of steel which is the burr, I need to abrade this away until the light reflection is uniform.
@@stroppystuff641 thanks for the explanation that will make things a lot easier for me when I sharpen! Is there any particular angle you should angle the flash light?
@@stevestory8483 No problem, I hope it helps! Start by shining the light down on top of the spine and then either angle the knife away or move the tail of the light towards you (so it's shining at a different angle). Just play with this until you find the burr, it's quite obvious once you see it, if you're really struggling to find it, there probably isn't a burr. It's hard to miss.
Dragging the blade across your thumbnail is a quick way to feel a burr on a blade. If it glides across, it has a burr, if it feels a bit rough when sliding across your nail it likely has a good edge.
@@stroppystuff641 Thank you you make excellent videos! I misunderstood, as that was the way my granddad taught me back in the 1960s to do before stropping. [unrelated story...] Once when I was a child, I had my right hand caught in a nylon rope twisted under tension. He hewas thankfully at the time been sharpening one of his knives, a Marbles Gladstone®. He ran out of the house sliced the 1 inch diameter rope with one slash and saved my hand. I now have the same knife and will never forget this experience.
@@Thestargazer56 thank you :) Good thing he was quick to save you! The nail technique is certainly viable to do, so you don't need to change what you're doing, but if you're going for ultimate performance it's missing a bit of accuracy :)
@@stroppystuff641 When I get my knives together to sharpen them my arms and legs look like I have mange from all the bald spots from shaving, testing my efficacy.
Extra sharp nice ! I stop Extra sharpening my knives only because for me and my edc good enough if my knives can cut par-cord in one swip ok let's rock 🪨 !
Try cutting one piece of cardboard and test it again. Most people don't give a you know what about the 158 down to 58 sharpness. Won't know the difference.
It's k390 my man. A single piece of card isn't going to dull it much. Also a keener apex will maintain sharpness longer. A burr tearing off will damage the underlying apex and thus make it dull faster
Yeah you go for a full polished edge and deburr on the strops. Great for a bushcrafter/wood working knife, not so awesome for an EDC where you want a bit of tooth
I would say it is possible you didn't deburr the knife on that rod but only straightened the burr. I would bet that you could get the same result if you just pulled the knife through a piece of wood and then took it to the strop.
Pulling a burr through a block of wood will tear the burr off and damage the underlying apex, fatiguing the steel and making it less keen. I micro beveled on the rod and it absolutely removed a large amount of burr
@@stroppystuff641 If your edge is so fragile that you can't pull it through a piece of soft wood, it's effectively useless to me. You're sharpening as a hobby, not for useability.
@@twatmunro You're missing the point. If you pull the knife though the wood BEFORE you deburr then the burr will be torn off, damaging the apex. If you pull the knife through the wood AFTER you deburr then it will not sustain any damage. And that is why it's important to do this properly as it will ensure a more durable edge.
@@stroppystuff641 thanks for this. Was recommended in the past to use pine wood or some soft type of wood for deburring, but will definitely get a ceramic honing rod in the future.
@@fallenstudent1103 you can do the same thing on your finishing stone, a rod isn't a requirement and I actually use it less these days. Having said that, the spyderco UF rod is an excellent tool for the job
Correctly deburring vastly improves longevity. As the edge becomes abraded it gets thicker thus less keen. If the burr is torn off it can take some apex with it (making it thicker faster) or it can even slam into the apex
3 and a half minutes to say "there is a burr, you just can't see it" - I keep going in the hope there is some use in here...but try to be more concise please, it will help you get more subscribers
Thank you for the feedback. This is a detailed video on a detailed topic. I want to provide as much information as possible because people still ask questions even after I talk for 20 minutes. If you want a shorter less informative video then outdoor55 has some. Also btw, by the 29 second mark I've described that the cause is burr.
Hi. I watch outdoor55 and he is awesome. I wasnt trying to offend you or criticise you, though. In fact, just now i am watching another video you made. I am just saying that it is important to get to the point rapidly in youtube videos. Today’s consumers have a very short attention span and if the intro is too bloated they are likely to switch to other content. Just my 2 cents, you do not need to agree, it is your channel
Which diamond paste grit should i get for my strop? I will only have one strop leather. 1 micron? 0.5 micron? I am new at this and just bought the work sharp ken onion with grinding attachment
@@giacomotognoni9865 I know it wasn't a criticism and I appreciate the feedback. I don't make videos to be a content creator. I make videos so that I can link them to my customers when they have difficulties. These are the most informative videos I can make and it means that they're probably boring for most people, but they answer the questions which people ask me.
It’s amazing how little work and pressure that needed to get sharp. You definitely opened my eyes to how hard I’m actually pushing when I use a rod / strop I’m even gonna lighten up on the worksharp system I have. Thanks for the info
Keep in mind that I'm deburring here, which requires very light pressure. It's okay to use a bit of pressure when you're removing material in the early stages 👍 good luck!
The like button is not sufficient enough for the depth of *love* I have for this video and the information you just passed on.
Cheers
Thanks man! really appreciate it :)
Strop......thanks for feedback. Deburring is and can be very frustrating. Much written and said about how to do it but for me, you have addressed it exceptionally well ...thanks.
I'm glad you found it helpful 👍
This is a new trick in my arsenal! I’m not push cutting paper towels yet but really close. Thank you for the trick it really helped!
Very informative video! It was difficult to see the light trick to visualize the burr. If you ever have time a short to teach this technique would be very helpful.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll try and schedule in that video shortly for you
Thank you! I have experienced this very issue a few times. It has always been in the same spot on the belly. I got really confused because I know I had fully apexed along the whole edge because the burr was noticeable. As I progressed through the grits, reducing the burr, and doing the final deburr on the strop, the knife would be very sharp, except that area. Now I have the explanation, thanks to you. I just tried the flashlight trick on a newly sharpened knife and could see a tiny barely noticeable burr. I obviously have a flaw in my technique when it comes to that area of the edge that I have to correct. Excellent tip! Subscribed!
I'm glad this tip helped you figure it out! Good work 👍
I've been able to get knives consistently shaving sharp for awhile now. But only sometimes have I gotten them tree-topping sharp or (comfortable) face shaving sharp without extreme angles and high grits.
This might be the reason. Added to my favorites to try later. Thanks!
This was the game changer that got me to tree topping so hopefully it will be for you too!
What is tree topping?
@@geetr-weezerd you swipe thru hair and the knife cuts it
I never expected that it could be fixed with just a few strokes. I bet that I have this problem as well. I got some blades that just feel dull despite putting a lot of effort in them and one I somehow messed up in a weird way. It feels like a glass shard and will cut through things with ease, but it doesn't keep the edge. Yes, I know, I bet that my sharpening angle wasn't consistent...
Yes this sounds exactly like a burr which has been lined up with the apex, it will feel SUPER sharp for one cut, but it immediately rolls over after that cut or during that cut and dulls immediately. Sometimes when the burr rolls over or gets torn off it can also damage your underlying apex. You really want to minimise this burr as much as physically possible before attempting a cut. Good luck!
@@stroppystuff641 Thanks. I had wondered how the edge can be so thin when I'm not pressing it flat on the stone... I guess it's partially the steel to blame. It's too soft and apparently prone to burrs. I got another blade made of softer steel (looks like true medieval steel) which is really easy to sharpen and doesn't have this problem. The really high quality blades are much harder to sharpen, but keep their edge once I finished.
@@edi9892 a quick microbevel is a very good trick for dealing with stubborn burrs on softer steels. Increase your angle by a couple degrees and do an ultra light edge leading pass on either side, if stropping then strop at the normal angle afterwards.
How to microbevel, with ceramic rod ?
Wow, that's exactly where I'm stuck right now. Im deburring on a 1m felt wheel (T8) and land exactly where your starting point was. Able to cut cig paper, but still catchy and just around 120 bess. And I always was wondering how on earth there could still be a burr after deburring on the felt wheel on a guided system. Thank for the knowledge you share
Thanks for the advice. I'm not good at sharpening but i'm slowly getting better. This will definitely help. I love learning. Cheers from Mont-Real.
Learning about the burr is game changing. If you make sure to remove it you'll be very happy with your results! Good luck
I actually found this out on my own when I first started stropping. I thought I broke the secret knife code no one talks about. Really changed my sharpening game up
Btw I'm happy you're talking about it because it was really discouraging thinking I was rounding my apex with the strop or other mistakes when really I had a burr to get rid of. I hope guys new to sharpening find you
I did the same thing. That’s the best way to learn though. It really sinks in when you figure it out yourself rather than just being taught how to do it.
You are my saviour. I sharpened my knife a few times now but was never quite satisfied with the end result. I'm pretty sure THIS was the reason.
That's awesome, glad it helped you out! So many people miss this step
Very useful information.
I bought the same sharpness tester. It has improved my sharpening.
Interesting video. Coming from a woodworking background, where you almost always get a burr on a chisel or plane blade, I was expecting to at least feel a burr when sharpening my knives, so good to know I'm not doing something wrong when I can't feel it.
Super, thanks a lot. FYI i just watched your video on 6 micron grit vs 1 vs 0.25 and found it very informative
Awesome! Glad you found it useful
My last stone is an ultra fine ceramic (forget the grit). I constantly swap sides until all stone marks are gone from the edge and I can't catch a burr with light. Then a quick strop and I have an ultra fine edge that lasts.
I found this video and I watched it I m kinda new to sharpening and you just made me that much better over night well 2 nights that how long it took for me to get them spyderco triangle stones in front Amazon. I bought all 3 med, fine, and UF I went back to the past 2 knifes I put an edge on and holly shit I was amazed just wanted to say thank you verry much for this video cause this help out enormously. You deff have a new sub thanks againg bro.
Thanks! I'm glad you managed to find the video useful and are now having some success! The spyderco rods are great tools, the UF in particular is great for removing burr and they can all be used to add a quick microbevel if needed. Good luck
I learned how to strop years ago when my eyesight was still good enough to regularly use straight razors to shave with. That carried over to regular knives quite well.
Very helpful as someone learning
I was taught to use a cork from. Pull the knife through a few light strokes and the cork removes the burr.
Unfortunately you were taught incorrectly. If you tear the burr off before it's small enough you'll damage the underlying apex and sacrifice keenness. If you cut anything before the burr has been sufficiently minimised you risk it tearing off or being smooshed into the apex below it. It will be sharper than WITH a burr, but nothing compared to a correctly deburred knife.
@@stroppystuff641 interesting! . Good to know thank you for this info! I was taught from a student of Jon Broida over at Japanese knife imports.
@@Jmon808 depends on the level of sharpness that you're looking for at the end of the day. If you're mass sharpening knives for a kitchen then you might want to cut some corners. If you're sharpening for hobby /enjoyment then might as well do the best possible job 👍
Lot learned again... thank you!
This was a very informative, thank you. However I could not really see the burr via the flashlight in the video but I understand the concept.
I can’t seem to get any bite in my blades after sharpening. I can rub my 3 fingers back and fourth doing the Murray carter 3 finger test and I can really put pressure. Seems that no matter what I do I can’t get it to “bite” into my skin or a tomato peel. Although I could shave my arm or face no problem. I use a 1000/6000 king stone and have used the edge pro apex and I get great edges just no bite. I tried stripping less and stropping back wards on my 6k stone instead of a leather and still no use.. yet Murray carter and others seem to have no problem getting bite even with polish. Any tips?
In my opinion this "bite" that people get from a super high finish polish is just ultimate keenness and I believe you're rounding over your edge just a little too much. You can also get this biting property from a toothy blade, which will require you to progress no more than around 1k or so.
Good information with some ideas I'll try. I'm what I'd call a journeyman sharpener at this point and I sometimes wonder how much edge geometry and type of steel are factors. It's probably partly the relative amount of experience, but I'm usually happy with the results I get on kitchen knives, but have a harder time with the thicker blades. And I have to think the softer, tougher steels will have that reflected in a burr that's a bit harder to remove, and susceptible to reformation if you use too much pressure.
You're absolutely right, geometry plays an enormous role in cutting performance, especially in edge retention. There's a ton of charts that can be seen on knife steel nerds that demonstrate all of this. Steel also plays a large role as some just sharpen beautifully for example Rex 45 has an incredibly crisp burr removal.
@@stroppystuff641 As a complete newb, I have a new carbon Morakniv Companion and a new Buck 112 slim. Upon watching your video, I began a closer examination of their edges. What I found is a canal running between the two sides of the blade that I can slide my thumbnail in, down the entire length. What could that be? A Double burr? :) Thank you!
@@thankmelater1254 I'm not sure I can visualise what you're describing, are you saying it goes along the whole apex?
@@stroppystuff641 Yes, it goes along the entire apex. After I asked the question, was able to get a series of 3 lenses (including my eyeglasses) working together under bright light and the appearance is as if there are 2 parallel burrs.
@@thankmelater1254 this is something which people have observed in the past and talked about online however I've never experienced it myself. I'd suggest trying to deburr it and see what happens
Just come a cross this video.... Awesome.. I was having this exact problem... You have a new subscriber many thanks
Thanks man! I hope it helped you out
Flashlight is another trick no one talks about that also changed my sharpening game.
Sometimes a strop won’t deburr well for me and a few light strokes (steeper angle) on a wooden dowel then to a strop makes all the difference for me.
The flashlight trick is crucial to my personal sharpening process. I feel as though many of the high level sharpeners are beyond needing this trick and many many beginner and intermediate sharpeners don't even realise that a small burr can exist or have an effect on sharpness. There are then the heathens who drag through cork or wood to tear the burr off. I suggest this trick to everyone, it's game changing
@@stroppystuff641 ha yep. Personally I can’t feel the burr when it starts to get really small. So easy to detect with the light though
If youtube algos' had their stuff together, I'd have seen your channel way sooner. Top notch stuff! I was taught by "carving a path's" vid' on tool sharpening that all burs can (and should) be removed by a good strop. Is that not the case? Love the flashlight trick. Thanks! Got a sub' from me.
Thanks for the support! Glad you found the video helpful.A burr can absolutely be removed by a strop but it all depends on your goals. For example if you want a coarse 400 grit edge then the burr will likely be too jagged and large to remove on a strop, it will also require loads of stropping and it will also scratch and damage the leather (if you're stropping with leather). My approach is always to deburr as much as possible (within reason) on the stones and then strop afterwards to remove any stubborn remnants and to further refine the apex.
@@stroppystuff641 Thank you. I'm pretty new to sharpening. I do strop with leather. I'll give the stones a try.
Wish I had seen this ages ago. I eventually figured it out, it can be very frustrating.
At least you managed to figure it out eventually! Good work
I recall an old Cliff Stamp video where her said very very light strokes on ceramic improved edge retention. Not sure he knew why. But perhaps it was the removal of the difficult to see/feel bur?
I use the ceramic quite a lot, especially for a quick job. It was suggested to me by a friend who learned it from Cliff Stamp before I had come across his videos. I believe Cliff knew a lot about burr removal so it's possible he was onto something additional. Possibly a micro bevel making it a keener apex etc. Such a complex topic and so hard to test and prove anything without SEM images.
@@stroppystuff641 Yes. He was ahead of his time and quite the contrarian. Used a ceramic today to remove a bur. I’ve also used basswood strops- ones I made for the KME- also do a pretty good job.
@@tonycanniffe2360 basswood strops are also a game changer! Punishing if you can't hold an angle but the feedback is 👌and the resulting edge is great.
@@tonycanniffe2360 I think when cliff was talking about light passes on ceramic it was more about light pressure control and it's effects on edge finish. He definitely knew about burr removal, as his while plateau sharpening approach was about having to minimize burr formation at the root.
I saw that video. He was excellent. I think his point was to show the importance of metal fadige during sharpening.
The lighter the pressure while using a honing rod the better the edge retention.
I stopped using round honing rods after that because they apply too much pressure comparing to straight hones.
Jewelers loupe helped tons with this. K390 is a great example of steel that I always get a tiny stubborn burr on.
I’ve found deburring my wharncliffe k390 delica is harder than my k390 endela. I suspect it has to do with the flat shape, but I’m not sure.
Have you sharpened the Wharncliffe less? I'm wondering if it's a bit of burned steel which you haven't gone through yet
@@stroppystuff641 honestly that’s likely what’s going on. I’ll kill the edge a few times and report back. You’ve used the heck out of your delica, I love to see it. It makes me actually care about your opinion if that makes sense.
@@lindboknifeandtool yeah it has seen some serious abuse 😂 it was my test knife before I got my hands on some mules.
Amazing info!
Quick question, would you recommend I get the Spyderco sharpening rod for assisting with the de-burring process? I’m currently de-burring on a 1200 grit diamond and strop.
Thanks for being such a great educator and business owner in the sharpening community! God bless you!
Thanks for the support and feedback!
The spyderco UF is good because it's very very easy to deburr on in comparison to other stones. The rod is also nice because it's so cheap. If you enjoy sharpening as a hobby etc I think buying a UF rod is a good idea, there will always be times you can use it or experiment with it etc, but I wouldn't say it's a requirement to own one
Very well made video review!! Thank you for sharing ♥️!! I've been trying to learn, it's definitely harder than it looks!!
Thank you thank you!!♥️♥️♥️🤗
Everyone should have a magnification device that is 40-90x. Even if you only have a 10 or 20x cheap jeweler’s on loupe you can see so much more and don’t have to do all that guessing. It makes a huge difference in your sharpening!
Can a burr whittle hair because I used a flash light on my knife edge thier was light reflecting except it was extremely faint, which leans me to believe it just the serrations.
What is the equipment that you used to check the sharpness?
Thank you for the informative video, I will use this in the future.
I'm glad you like it 👍 thanks for the feedback
Really interesting, just found your channel and subscribed.
I always have trouble sharpening, seems a constant issue! :(
I'll have a look at the website to see what you do there.
Thanks - Gray
Thanks for the feedback! Hopefully you'll have a bit more luck with some of these tips
On the strength of this video I subscribed to your channel. Very impressive, I must say ! 🤗☺️✌️🖖👋🇬🇧
Thank you! :)
Is it possible to deburr to that level with a diamond plate if you're gentle and thorough, or do you believe the UF ceramic to be crucial following the atoma?
@@Aerzon1v1 hard to say. I've cut rizla before straight off an Atoma but it was very difficult and the edge was not as clean. In my opinion it just makes sense to move to a high grit for deburr
@stroppystuff641 I will incorporate this step in my minimalist system. I apex and minimize burr on an atoma 400, then follow that with a couple of light, raised angle passes on a Spyderco UF, and then strop on leather with your 1 micron Stroppy Stuff compound.
I use my knives on very abrasive materials at work and can dull an edge fast. I can dull any Spyderco factory edge in 2 days. I'm trying to make as simple of a progression as possible. I don't enjoy overly busy setups with 6 stones and 4 strops. I appreciate the video on more complete deburring. And here I was thinking of giving away my Spyderco UF ceramic stone.....
@@Aerzon1v1 when I want a quick edge I usually sharpen on an Atoma 600 and then give it a quick deburr on something fine like the UF and maybe a strop too. I also dislike complicated progressions with 5+ stones. I personally never use more than 3 stones even when going crazy
I've started using your 1 micron compound on a little 1"x6" stiff leather strop. It works quickly to make the edge keener following the stones, It's what stropping should be like. The DMT pastes I was using before seem rather weak by comparison.
Do you have any experience or opinions regarding the Venev resin bonded diamond waterstones?
@@Aerzon1v1 the Venev stones are good although they're getting more expensive these days
Are you attempting to freehand on both the ceramic and leather at the same angle as you sharpened? Great video, by the way, thanks!
Yes at the same angle. If you're using a particularly bad knife like a cheap kitchen "stainless steel" then you will be forced to increase bevel angle and create a micro bevel to knock the burr off. The worse the steel the more aggressive you will need to be with the angle
Really appreciate your answer. Thanks!@@stroppystuff641
so what if u were sharpening on a 600 grit diamond stone, after burr is formed on both sides progress to ultra fine 3-6k stone to just deburr? or would you raise a new burr on the higher stone?
Coming in a little late, but if that's your progression, then minimize the burr as much as possible with edge leading strokes right on the 600, and then move to your 3000.
Calluses? Those hands look as soft as mine do. I work in a bank. Those must be paper pusher calluses. LOL!
A jewlers loupe is a good tool to have. You can get cheap ones under $10.
Indeed
Has this delica been reprofiled or is it just an older model? Shape looks really flat compared to mine, but it also is missing some markings like the spyderco logo
My dad had ( in those days ) the mandatory 2 grades of stone ( grit) 3 grades of emery paper on wooden handles then a leather strop with a bit of oil. Yes he was once a butcher. I have enough vintage to have learnt all that but have recently wimped out and gone over to the dark side of V blocks or electric sharpeners. The Smiths ceremic V handle does a good job of final swipe after initial heavier cut. Lazy...yes , quick...yes !😎👍
Dumb question but on your strop are you using the smooth side or the rough side of the leather?
Grain side, which is smooth side 👍
I check the edge with a fingernail rather trying to feel the burr. Scratch the blade pulling your nail off the edge of the blade. You can feel a slight catch where the burr is present.
This works with a large enough burr, but it's possible to have a burr much smaller than one which can be detected by feel. It's also possible that the burr is pushed to the other side when touching it with your nail.
Great video. I am struggling with getting the burr off S90v. That stuff is so tough, leather strop does nothing. I’m going to give the ceramic stone a try. Otherwise, do you have any recommendations for sharpening the “super steels”?
I'd always suggest trying to deburr on the stones. Go for edge leading passes on a high grit stone (very light). Failing that trying a loaded strop, not bare leather.
There's always something new to learn about knife sharpening! What are your thoughts on using a steel? I find that a combination of steeling and stropping gets my edges to the sharpness that I'm looking for, but neither the steel nor the strop will do it alone. Isn't a burr just another name for a curled-over edge that can be aligned with a steel?
It's a common misunderstanding that steeling primarily "realigns" a damaged apex. First off, an aligned burr will last less than a single cut before it rolls over again or breaks away. Secondly steeling is usually used on chefs knives which are primarily used for slice cuts and therefore become dull from abrasion and micro chipping rather than rolling edges. In the case of rolls a steel will usually shear off the roll. Steeling primarily will apply a microbevel to a knife which is a very viable way of maintaining between sharpening. Micro bevels can be used to increase keenness to a dulling apex.
@@stroppystuff641 Thanks for the reply. I'll watch more of your videos and see how I can incorporate this information into my own sharpening.
@@stroppystuff641 this guy knows his stuff. Do you happen to read ScienceOfSharp articles, by any chance?
@@ilikewaffles3689 I live and breathe the word of Todd 👍
This is not my experience at all, at least with kitchen knives. After my wife (a trained cook) uses them I can often see damage (little roll or kinks/waves) on the edge. Using a mirror smooth polishing steel lets me push things back straight. Nothing is worn, broken or cut off and under a loupe everything looks like it did before and the knife is razor sharp again. Sometimes I will lightly use a very fine steel instead first if the damage is greater. The last time the knives were fully professionally sharpened was 2018 and with near daily home use they still shave hair. I have only needed to sharpen one knife, a small paring knife that she sonetimes abuses, for the first time last week since 2018.
The point being under magnification I can see that the polishing steel does push the edge straight again. There might be some burnishing effect too. It obviously won't take any other damage out such as nicks etc. those call for a trip to the stones.
I also usd the polishing steel on my 420HC knives with good results. Don't use on knives above 60rc such as Japanese knives though as they are too hard and you can cause damage instead but below 59 things seem to work.
I found that a buffing wheel works quiet well with taking the burr off my blades to make them extremely sharp
You've got to be careful of rounding and the apex and burning the steel but whatever works 👍
@@stroppystuff641 yeah I know I literally pass the blade edge over the buffing wheel 2 times with minimal pressure just till I can feel that the burr is wither removed or so small I can't see/feel with my finger tips and the blade becomes alot sharper. But your video was really helpful. I need to build up my sharpening stones/set I'm using the lansky and can only get to 1000grit atm so I try do the best I can with what I have.
@@waynewhittal806 absolutely, do the best you can with the tools you've got. High end stones are a luxury not a necessity :)
@@waynewhittal806 One cheap and effective way to get a 6K result is using Brown polishing paste on strop or soft wood. Grit may vary with manufacturer, 6K is for Pasta Jacaré.
Another option is low grit diamond compound, something around 3-4 micron, result is probably faster than with brown polishing compound.
1:55 I see nothing maybe mark it to draw attention to location?
I found a ceramic rod takes the burr right off from my experiences anyways . Cpl swipes and it’s gone . I was having an issue with the burr and a u inform apex u til I got a magnifier loopy thingy with the light
My only thought is: how to know you removed the burr, not only realigned it.
I'm not saying you did anything wrong, I'm just thinking out loud.
I've never been able to sharpen a knife to the point where I get a burr.
do you check your edge with a flashlight after each time you cut something?
I check the edge when I'm sharpening
Do you have a video about that device on your scale?
It's a sharpness tester, I don't have a video on it at the moment. It just measures the amount of force required to cut the wire 👍
wow that delica's looking strange in its proportions and silhouette - i imagine it's been sharpened a crazy number of times.
Yeah it just gets abused for experiments 😂
Isn't there a chance of mistaking a micro-bevel for a burr?
The difference between the light reflection of a micro bevel and a burr is stark. Also in this instance performance increased dramatically which proves the burr assumption. You can also use magnification to check the apex or a number of other methods
@@stroppystuff641 Hi, thank you for the reply. Can you do a video on that?
One brief pass per side on a leather strop will tell you if a burr is present, as well as how pronounced it is.
Even if you are stropping then you still benefit from removing the burr before hitting the strops.
@@stroppystuff641 after the brief pass on each side, if I see burr I always go back to the stone. It's merely an easy and underused method of burr detection.
@@oceanwaves83 yeah whatever works best for you to get the best edges 👍 interesting to hear different techniques
@@stroppystuff641 absolutely. I try to spread the word as many people take a pass on a strop and don't even notice the surface of the leather being roughed up due to the burr. The answer is right in front of their eyes.
Like a light saber now
What are you looking for with the flash light to show you there’s a burr
You can see when I first shine the light there is a line of steel which is reflecting the light differently than the rest of the bevel. This reflected light is coming from a tiny tiny flap of steel which is the burr, I need to abrade this away until the light reflection is uniform.
@@stroppystuff641 thanks for the explanation that will make things a lot easier for me when I sharpen! Is there any particular angle you should angle the flash light?
@@stevestory8483 No problem, I hope it helps! Start by shining the light down on top of the spine and then either angle the knife away or move the tail of the light towards you (so it's shining at a different angle). Just play with this until you find the burr, it's quite obvious once you see it, if you're really struggling to find it, there probably isn't a burr. It's hard to miss.
@@stroppystuff641 thanks I appreciate the help
I sharpen my knives when they cannot cut all the way through a cigarette paper...??? I use croc sticks... i carbide one ceramic...
Dragging the blade across your thumbnail is a quick way to feel a burr on a blade. If it glides across, it has a burr, if it feels a bit rough when sliding across your nail it likely has a good edge.
You can't detect a foil this way, but yes you can feel a sizable burr
@@stroppystuff641 Thank you you make excellent videos! I misunderstood, as that was the way my granddad taught me back in the 1960s to do before stropping. [unrelated story...] Once when I was a child, I had my right hand caught in a nylon rope twisted under tension. He hewas thankfully at the time been sharpening one of his knives, a Marbles Gladstone®. He ran out of the house sliced the 1 inch diameter rope with one slash and saved my hand. I now have the same knife and will never forget this experience.
@@Thestargazer56 thank you :) Good thing he was quick to save you! The nail technique is certainly viable to do, so you don't need to change what you're doing, but if you're going for ultimate performance it's missing a bit of accuracy :)
@@stroppystuff641 When I get my knives together to sharpen them my arms and legs look like I have mange from all the bald spots from shaving, testing my efficacy.
Nice 👍
Thanks 👍
Extra sharp nice ! I stop Extra sharpening my knives only because for me and my edc good enough if my knives can cut par-cord in one swip ok let's rock 🪨 !
You do know the old methods
I had a great teacher :)
Well done cut that zig zag paper 😂. That’s what I thought it was. Where is my mind?
If my blade cuts paper towels cleanly after stripping, that’s good enough for me
That's great, sounds like you don't need to learn anything more about sharpening, good work man 👍
Try cutting one piece of cardboard and test it again. Most people don't give a you know what about the 158 down to 58 sharpness. Won't know the difference.
It's k390 my man. A single piece of card isn't going to dull it much. Also a keener apex will maintain sharpness longer. A burr tearing off will damage the underlying apex and thus make it dull faster
I don't even deburr, I just monke + strop (stroppystuff and jende)
Yeah you go for a full polished edge and deburr on the strops. Great for a bushcrafter/wood working knife, not so awesome for an EDC where you want a bit of tooth
Now I feel stupid I should have watched first , haha.
I would say it is possible you didn't deburr the knife on that rod but only straightened the burr. I would bet that you could get the same result if you just pulled the knife through a piece of wood and then took it to the strop.
Pulling a burr through a block of wood will tear the burr off and damage the underlying apex, fatiguing the steel and making it less keen. I micro beveled on the rod and it absolutely removed a large amount of burr
@@stroppystuff641 If your edge is so fragile that you can't pull it through a piece of soft wood, it's effectively useless to me. You're sharpening as a hobby, not for useability.
@@twatmunro You're missing the point. If you pull the knife though the wood BEFORE you deburr then the burr will be torn off, damaging the apex. If you pull the knife through the wood AFTER you deburr then it will not sustain any damage. And that is why it's important to do this properly as it will ensure a more durable edge.
@@stroppystuff641 thanks for this. Was recommended in the past to use pine wood or some soft type of wood for deburring, but will definitely get a ceramic honing rod in the future.
@@fallenstudent1103 you can do the same thing on your finishing stone, a rod isn't a requirement and I actually use it less these days. Having said that, the spyderco UF rod is an excellent tool for the job
Who doesn't love a sharp knife?
But... 1 minute of cutting something of substance and you will be right back up to 165.
Correctly deburring vastly improves longevity. As the edge becomes abraded it gets thicker thus less keen. If the burr is torn off it can take some apex with it (making it thicker faster) or it can even slam into the apex
that delica looks weird
It's the sharpening guinea pig, it takes all the abuse.
If you want to remove the burr then throw another log on the fire or get under the covers. Burr!
3 and a half minutes to say "there is a burr, you just can't see it" - I keep going in the hope there is some use in here...but try to be more concise please, it will help you get more subscribers
Thank you for the feedback. This is a detailed video on a detailed topic. I want to provide as much information as possible because people still ask questions even after I talk for 20 minutes. If you want a shorter less informative video then outdoor55 has some. Also btw, by the 29 second mark I've described that the cause is burr.
Hi. I watch outdoor55 and he is awesome. I wasnt trying to offend you or criticise you, though. In fact, just now i am watching another video you made. I am just saying that it is important to get to the point rapidly in youtube videos. Today’s consumers have a very short attention span and if the intro is too bloated they are likely to switch to other content. Just my 2 cents, you do not need to agree, it is your channel
Which diamond paste grit should i get for my strop? I will only have one strop leather. 1 micron? 0.5 micron? I am new at this and just bought the work sharp ken onion with grinding attachment
@@giacomotognoni9865 I know it wasn't a criticism and I appreciate the feedback. I don't make videos to be a content creator. I make videos so that I can link them to my customers when they have difficulties. These are the most informative videos I can make and it means that they're probably boring for most people, but they answer the questions which people ask me.
@@giacomotognoni9865 both 1um and 0.5um are excellent for an all purpose compound. I usually suggest 1um to newer people.