What Do "Knife Sharpening" Honing Steels Actually Do?
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- Опубліковано 3 тра 2024
- What do "knife sharpening" honing steels actually do? They Are NOT knife sharpeners! Today we look at what they do under a microscope to finally find out. Knife sharpening under a microscope.
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CHAPTERS
00:00 INTRO What is a knife steel honing rod and what are they for?
01:00 What a properly sharpened knife looks like under magnification.
02:19 What we have been told about honing rods
02:58 What is a TRUE rolled edge
04:02 Attempting to straighten a TRUE rolled edge
05:10 Attempt number 2
06:13 I can’t believe what this thing Does to a rolled edge!
06:55 Some theory as to why a honing rod screws up your edges
07:29 YOU’RE WRONG ABOUT HONING RODS!
07:44 THE MAIN ISSURE HERE
08:44 Chopping board test…. but you’re still wrong
09:48 With a properly sharpened knife these are useless
10:39 Chopping board test with a properly sharpened knife
11:26 Why these were invented and a GOOD alternative
13:20 My advice if you have these and what to do with them
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Important🛑⬇️
For further explanation on what I did test, and addressing concerns I "didnt use it correctly" See this video⬇️
ua-cam.com/video/65JzsDU_0mI/v-deo.html
I address all of the Comments concerned in this video, and the linked videos. And before leaving a comment telling me i did something wrong, please watch the WHOLE video, since most of the questions are actually answered but not comprehend by them commenter who has issues. Also If any butchers want to send me a knife they have sharpened, and one that has been "steeled" for analysis under the microscope, and sharpness testing please Email me in my about page👍 This video still stand as completely accurate. I literally show pictures of what these actually do. And thats the REAL POINT of this video⬇
Also notice there wasnt any sharpness testing in this video. This isnt about whether or not these can "technically sharpen". You can technically sharpen on a rock, that doesn’t make it a good idea, or the best method. This video is about showing what these do to Your knife edge.
Are Ceramic honing rod like the ones from Zwilling also a good alternative?
I don't know what you mean exactly, but ususally with Ceramic rods, you get what you pay for. Not all of them work the same.That means, that not all of them are the same quality, or grit. I like to have at least 2 different grits. one for my outdoors sharpening kit, which I want it to be low grit, effective and fast, and one very fine grit, for in home sharpneing, where I use it both to maintain my blades sharp, but also as a final stage, after sharpening on stones. I only strop a bit on newspaper, after the final passes on ceramic. that provides a scary sharp edge, that I can't even touch with my thumb, to see how sharp it is, because even the lightest touch, you feel it cuts into your skin!! @@paulgray31590
I sharpen knives for living, since the early 90's. That's both my main job, and I also do extra work at home. What you say on this video,is all 100% spot on! I'm tired of trying to convincce people, who believe they sharpen their knives with these steel rods, that they actually do nothing! I advise them, to at least get a ceramic rod, yet they insist on steel rods,because as they say, I'm wrong ,their knives do get sharper".... How fool and "blind" have most people around the world become, is the real problem here.
hey, look at my comment, sorry but you're using this rod the wrong way :p push not pull!!!!!
You always can use Knife Sharpening Honing diamond stick without any issues!!
As a knife enthusiast ive had so many arguments about the usefulness of these honing rods with friends that work in the food industry. Its one of those things where tradition overrides logic, they almost all refuse to use anything else
"a proper chef should know to take care of their knife" (proceeds to destroy it)
The fact is, the knives we use in restaurant kitchens are more functional after some passes on a steel like this. So in a kitchen these are practical. Kitchens aren't about science, they are about being practical and fast. Not every knife is going to be properly sharpened, and you just need to have it cut your damn prep NOW.
If one of my prep cooks was taking 5 minutes to pass his knives on a stone all the time I would send him home.
I also don't want some 18-year-old trying to learn to use stones at all. I've seen people who are inexperienced with stones absolutely ruin knives. Even (sometimes especially) experienced chefs.
So in a high volume kitchen a steel does the job of keeping a knife cutting. And it DOES have a noticeable effect on the house knives that were sharpened by some goof with a grinding wheel who has no idea what he is doing.
I'll keep upgrading my stones and keeping my personal knives as sharp as I can, but I don't expect that of everyone else.
@@inthefade what you say doesn’t make much sense. If it’s all about having functional knives, then why not just spending the same amount of effort and time using a stone instead of a honing rod and actually getting better results?
And you’re talking about not wanting some to use sharpening stones but then you use honing rods to really destroy the apex on your knives!
I am so thankful that in mexico we had known those rods are shit for years and are starting to disappear
They disappearing so much I haven't seen one in a store for like 10 years
@@inthefadeit's more practical for all the restaurants in my area to just have like 5 knife sets for every chef then after the day someone gets paid extra to sharpen the knifes
I have a relative that was showing off his $300 Japanese kitchen knife that he was very proud of. He demonstrated how he "sharpened" it on a steel rod, then handed the knife to me. It was literally the dullest knife I've ever handled and had a very visibly damaged and rolled edge. I tried to nicely suggest that he should sharpen it on a stone, but he was in total denial that the knife wasn't already sharp and quickly took it away from me.
People don’t buy knifes for themselves, they buy them for showing them to other people
What is even more funny about that is if it's a $300 Japanese kitchen knife.
It is likely ran very Hard 63-65hrc or higher. That's steel hone He is using is probably only 56-58hrc Or if it's a high quality steel hone it may be ran upwards of 61ish. Point is in all likelihood the Knife steel is much harder then the steel hone. And that is what really tickles me when people say they are sharpening their knife on a steel hone and when you tell them its not "sharpening" because it can't cut the knife steel and they say "well what do you think the grooves are doing" tickles me to the core... I guess Most people don't understand that in order to cut something
What's doing the cutting has to be harder then what's being cut. So when you explain that they're not sharpening they just can't fathom that and will argue with you endlessly. Using a steel hone on a very hard and very fine edge Japanese knife is doing nothing other then causing chipping at the apex every time they slap the knife to the steel rod. I see that all the time (I'm a professional free hand sharpener) on knives that people send in to have sharpend. Its Mostly Shun knives I see it the worst on or in some cases (and it makes me sick) on small batch rare and very expensive customs.. in some of the steels that shun are running up around 65hrc and shuns have notoriously thin edges and the knives I get sent literally feel like a fine tooth hacksaw and it's very easy to see exactly what they did that caused it. How its so easy to tell that they was using a steel hone and that's what did the damage is because the chipping will be the worst right near the heel of the blade/edge termination because that are doing that exact crazy stuff gorden Ramsey shows off. They are slapping the knife to the steel hardest right near the heel and it just absolutely eats those thin/fine EXTREMELY HARD cutting edges up.. it does it bad enough on soft German steels that have quite thick edge geometry but on then super thin edge geometry with super hard steels it's absolutely brutal how badly it destroys them. The average person doesn't know what a Sharp knife is, most people get a 1 dollar from the dollar store and drag their finger down the side and will say that's a sharp knife or a new 10 dollar Chicago cutlery chefs knives from box stores are "RAZOR SHARP" just sharpened some knives for a guy a couple weeks ago and one of his friends was over and using one of the chef knives I sharpened for him and was trimming fat off of a beef roast and caught the side of his hand below his thumb and he sent me a Pic of him getting 7 stitches.
That’s why I always tell people to buy standard German knifes (I’m from germany, so biased). Japanese steel is great, but you have to know what you’re doing, and most people don’t. Standard steel from Germany or US is the best for most people, easy to sharpen and easy to maintain.
From my experience, owners of Japanese knifes have the dullest knifes, because they only buy it for the show. In Germany, the Shun knifes have become famous with a TV-Cook, „Tim Mälzer“. Would never buy one of these
Very interesting
@@EDCandLaceA honing rod doesn't intend to remove material, but aligns the edge, while fixing chips that break off due to metal fatigue.
I respect you being a professional sharpener, but hardness isn't very relevant for a honing rod.
After watching this video 3 times to make sure I have a complete grasp on your suppositions, tests, and results, I'd like to weigh in.
First I wanted to say great video and excellent testing. Being able to see the results under the microscope was fascinating.
I am a professional chef and spend a lot of time both using and maintaining knives, even going so far as to offer my sharpening services to my coworkers and friends in the restaurant industry. I use both whetstones as well as a belt grinder to accomplish my sharpening. I have also sworn by using a honing rod (never called it a sharpening rod as I knew it was non abrasive unless ceramic or coated in abrasive) for years, when knives seem to lose their sharpness after much use. Your video has made me question whether or not I should continue using a honing rod and I'd like to suppose some things that maybe you could test in future videos.
1. I use a honing rod multiple times a day depending on the volume of knife work I am doing. There are days I am making literally thousands of cuts before using a honing rod or whetstone to touch up an edge. Is it possible that your tests against the simulated cutting board were not accurately representing wear and tear on a real kitchen knife? I know this could have little bearing on the results, but am interested to see what a chef's knife apex looks like after a few hours of cutting, not just a few minutes. I'd be happy to send you two of my knives, one that was just sharpened and one that was used for an entire day of knife work, to see the edge under your microscope.
2. It is possible to have an edge that is "too" sharp for the task. Earlier in my days of sharpening I had experiences where I would attempt to cut a tomato or a lime with a mirror polished edge and would struggle, but would have no problem shaving my arm, or push cutting paper. I've since left my apex a little rough for knives that are used for general purposes and not cutting meat or fish. A mirror edge is great for cutting sashimi, not so great for making lime wedges. Is it possible that the rough apex keeps the knife sharp enough for the utility of your average kitchen without needing any further polishing?
3. Could you perform real tests using real ingredients to test the practical uses of each edge? I'd be interested to see how that rolled edge performed on a lime before and after the honing rod.
Finally, I'd like to thank you for recommending a diamond plate for quick sharpening, I think I'll invest in one to keep in my knife roll and leave the honing steel at home until I've done some more research. I'm willing to let go of the honing steel, but not until I've vetted every last reason why it might be a waste of my time.
Looking forward to more of your videos!
I think the reason a polished blade doesn't work well on limes is not that it's "too sharp", but rather that it is too smooth on the flanks. What happens is that the apex cuts into the skin alright, but the skin is too inflexible to allow the rest of the blade to sink in deeper, so the edge then doesn't actually do anything more then, you're just sliding along the sides of the wedge created by the initial cut. It's basically the same reason as why you can't cut wood even with an arbitrarily sharp knife.
Blades that are, on paper, worse avoid this problem: the burrs and grinding marks on the sides both pull the blade down on a push stroke, and also act like microscopic sawteeth that move some material out of the way. It would be interesting whether the same effect can be achieved by sliding a proper sharp knife a couple of times over medium-grit sandpaper at a very acute angle, and thus get the best of both worls.
An alternative is of course to use actual serrated knives for such tasks.
leaving a rough edge I believe has the effect of making mini serrations hence the better cutting with some foods
I immediately checked the comments for someone saying what you said :)
One would never encounter a 'rolled edge' as was created (with much effort).
Therefore the test with the honing rod was not realistic, and was certain to fail.
The kitchen honing rod is used in the kitchen, for quickly reviving a sharp edge.
In this respect, it is a very useful tool.
Bugger, should have read the comments before I posted, lol. A mirror edge sticks due to surface tension, so yes, a knife can be too sharp IMHO. Certainly for smashing through veggies!
Interesting! Your #2 point reflects my comment about woodworkers.
I worked as a butcher in a meat packing plant for about 5 years, there were 200 workers on the production floor, so we had a knife room where they would use power knife grinders, we would always get our knives back with pretty big burr so you'd use that steel to break the burr at the true apex then we'd use a smooth steel to straighten and a ceramic for a fine edge
Smooth/polished steels for the win! Butchers know where it's at! This video really doesn't go into why those casual honing steels are so awful: it's because people keep buying those cheap-ass ribbed ones that tear up your edges. Polished steels are fantastic.
Agree. Worked on a kill floor. My brother was a ham boner. Number of cousins worked boning, hitching ribs, etc. Power sharpening or even stone honing always needed worked to get truly sharp. Hence we all got 10 minutes per day knife buffing pay. :D
Yes i still do this part time and this is how i work.
Butchers word is gospel. Learned from machine shop foreman. Smooth rod to cycle burr decreases grain structure tighter and tighter. strain hardening it until maximum hardness achieved and burr breaks off. Very small amount of strain hardened metal remains on blade and can be lightly sharpened with solid real ceramic rod. A dozen alternating light strops on my denim, cotton bib or doubled terry cloth on counter and we surgical.
Author needs to sharpen a paper clip; then flex a paper clip till it brittle breaks and sharpen the brittle break face. Yup, think of knife blade as a stacked row of broken paper clips.
If you dont work knife edge w smooth hone, then you are only sharpening soft metal and haven’t reached even a fraction of blades capability in creating a sharper and significantly more durable edge.
Totally agree. I have a technique to do the same thing better and with less loss of material, but it would be too slow for a professional environment.
I teach sharpening at a woodworking store where I work part time. I'm constantly amazed at how many people have no idea what sharp really is. Recently sharpened a set of kitchen knives for a customer and he could not believe how well they cut. I am not a professional, just an enthusiast who enjoys sharp objects. (hmm, sounds weird out loud.) :-)
I've had that discussion with people about honing steels, and as you say most don't want to believe it. I always recommend they throw it away and at least buy a ceramic rod instead.
Ah yes the woodworking sharp. I have my experience and understand the science behind it all. I have some wood chisels (just Stanley’s) and a Tormek. Sharpened my chisels to “omg I cut myself and didn’t feel it sharp”. That’s exactly what happened while trimming out a door hinge and because my chisels were always “meh” I learned a wrong technique and that’s what led to the cut and the bleeding. 🩸 Wasn’t a “need stitches” cut but I was totally blown away about 1. Sharp tools make things much easier. 2. Body parts have no business being in any way of any sharp edge. 😂. 3. Truly Sharp ends of tools should have some protection when stored and/or when you grab them you don’t cut yourself just doing that.
We‘ve got a ceramic sharpening rod. Are they doing something different? It used to be white but is now grey allover, so there’s definitely an effect on the blades, but that’s about all I know.
We‘ve never sharpened our knives before. Just use them as bought, and put in the dishwasher to clean. Then the occasional rod treatment, and they cut more easily after that. 🤷♀️
@@johnkruton9708 - lol, tell stumpy nubbs - et al - not to slam his planes down (ha ha ha)
A friend wanted me to sharpen his kitchen knife. He decided it was time to wash and dry it. The towell was folded in a way that gave 4 layers when he cut through all 4 and into his hand and didn't feel a thing. The next time I sharpened one, he used it to cut open a bag of chips and cut the tip of his finger off. I told him that I'm never sharpening a knife for him again and "don't ever touch any of mine!"@@johnkruton9708
@@ArDeeMee Yes, ceramic or diamond (I have both) are actually abrasive and sharpen by removing material the same way as a sharpening stone does. They're just in stick or rod shape instead of a flat stone. Ceramic is usually a very fine grit abrasive, rather than course.
This is interesting. I do use a steel in the kitchen, but I use it in an opposite motion, as if shaving metal off the steel. I have always considered the steel to be a specialized file. It stretches out the time between sitting down and doing a full sharpening - I use a synthetic double-sided oil stone for that. I do know that over time, use causes the apex to turn to where you can detect the turn with a finger nail. I use the steel to remove the turned bit. I always imagined, since I was taught to use the steel opposite to what you show, that the steel _removes_ the rolled bit, essentially filing it away. After a "several" steelings the edge may get fussy about slicing ripe tomatoes and fail to restore to a fully useful edge. It is then that I get out the stones.
I was taught by a very good butcher not to draw the knife towards me but to push the knife away, as if I wanted to shave a very thin layer of steel from the rod. It works.
@@user-zd5gb6tm9j The "away" rule is to protect you from yourself. Pulling the knife toward the hilt _might,_ under severely adverse circumstances, lead to an accidental cut, and with a sharp knife, fingers on the floor. The position of the edge relative to the steel surface and the angle is the same in either direction. I prefer the way I was taught mainly because it's more comfortable to me. I've worked in a kitchen where we were supposed to hold the steel vertically in a dagger hold, with the tip on a counter or block. The knife was held against the steel and "cut" downward like we were trying to remove shavings from the steel. Heaven help you if the chef saw you doing it any other way.
Former Butcher here, my two cents: the KEY is to use the honing steel fairly often, every 10-20 cuts, to PREVENT the edge from rolling too much: LIGHT pressure, LEAD with the edge, do the whole blade from heel to tip in a single arcing stroke.
When the edge bent excessively to one side, it was time to send the knife back to the sharpening service. At that point there was nothing we could do to fix it with a honing steel.
It is probably the most difficult tool to master in a kitchen or butcher's shop, it take A LOT of practice to use it properly and only about 5% of the people I ever met could actually put it to good use, everyone else just messed up the blade. But it does have a purpose.
I'm a chef and I agree with you, for nearly 40 years I've been using steels to sharpen my knives and I still use the same knives I started out with, I've got through a few steels though! There's a big difference between someone with little knife experience making a UA-cam video and a proper professional experienced knife user. There's a reason we use steels and I'd say it's because when done properly it's fast, efficient, and doesn't damage or cause excessive wear to the blade. You need to use it properly and regularly though and I think it's something that comes with experience and not something you can do after a couple of weeks of messing around.
70 yr old son of a butcher. My old man didn't teach me much, (except what NOT to do to be a good father), but he taught me at about 12-13 how to sharpen, use & maintain knives.
He was older when I was born & learned butchery in the late '20's, (1920's!), in NYC.
He taught me how to create a proper edge on a blade & taught me EXACTLY what you explained re: the purpose & use of a steel.
This guy is using diamond, which I use, now, & love. Diamond is akin to cheating, compared to natural stone; the surface is nearly perfectly identical, unlike a stone & it's cutting ability reduces passes by 60-70%, in my experience.
When I got some diamonds, I sharpened everything w/ an edge I owned: knives, scissors, lawn mower, (I keep a knive-like edge on it... it works well), hoes, trimmers, pruners... you name it.
I brought all if them to dangerous sharp in about the same time it took me to do 2-3 of them.
There's things poster doesn't understand about what he's 'busting'; too old & don't have the time to waste explaining it all to him.
One other thing, I, too, have amazing magnification capabilities & most people can for less than 10 bucks... buy a moderately good jeweler's loupe.
I have one I use regularly, several actually, & another that's about 2x's the mag; it's good for looking at intricate stuff like end mills, taps & such, but overkill for a straight edge.
A last tip I discovered/then stole from the machining world. You know how machinists 'blue' things w/ die; blue Sharpies have replaced Dykem for most purposes.
I use a blue Sharpie on an edge before I sharpen it, as a visual guide for contact angulation; it helps, even 70 yr old hands that have sharpened for 50+ yrs.
GeoD
Caveman line cook here. I’ve always lead with the edge with great results. I guess I’ll never start using my steel backwards, because it will ruin my edge.
Sharpening service? A butcher that can't sharpen a knife is like a mechanic that can't use a wrench. You are benched.
@@jeffreybrown4015 There was a time in this country, pre-carbide era, when sharpening experts & shops were common. In my teens & 20's, all carpenters had 2 racks of saw blades, alternately traded w/ 'The Sharpening Guy'. In some communities, these guys did knives for slaughter houses & grocery chains; the butchers did the maintenance, but a 'new grind' wasn't done in house. Thet also did work for the average consumer. Put it all together & a man could feed his family.
With the advent of carbide, the handwriting was on the wall, within a decade, a 'Sharpening Guy' was nowhere to be found.
Gets me to wondering about blade users; suspect a knife gets chucked & replaced, now, instead of re-ground & re-birthed. We do live in a throw away world.
I inherited my dad's knives; used them for years, they'd lived & worked a long life. They're in an attic box, somewhere, the handles got too beat for anything but a bachelor's household.
My main blades are ceramic, w/ an eclectic mix of oddball fav's.
I'm halfway through the video so far. I will continue to watch the whole video, but I have some thoughts and questions to share first:
1. How come you did not roll the sharpened edge in a way that it would naturally be rolled? People that talk about the theoretical rolled edge are doing so in the context of cutting food on a cutting board (vigorous chopping of vegetables is thought to contribute mightily to a rolled edge).
2. While initial reverse strokes are often used to make sure that an edge is "unrolled", most respected knife manufacturers recommend finishing the honing with forward strokes. This is thought to align the edge.
3. Much like with sharpening, honing is often done with progressively lighter strokes as you come to the end of your progression.
4. Honing is for high quality steel that is rated below 61 or so HRC. If the steel is of poor quality, it will not respond very well and if the steel is too hard, it will not respond very well.
5. After sharpening my Victorinox I have been able to maintain a hair shaving edge for over a year; maintaining it only with a honing rod. I've done this multiple times over the years.
After finishing the video, I still disagree with your premise. You are a very smart man and I understand the reasons that you have for the things that you believe. The problem is that you're not doing real world testing and everything that you're concluding is based on a belief that you hold rather than real-world experience. There are thousands and thousands of people just like me who maintain a hair shaving sharp edge on their kitchen knives with a honing rod. I love your videos brother and I hope you keep making them, but this one was a bit of a miss.
Thanks, he doesn't even know how to use the tool...
Yeah. I think you have fooled yourself into thinking you are doing something that actually works.
It wasn't a miss at all. Cutting is applying enough force to a small enough area that the molecules below elongate to the point of breakage, at which point the cutting implement passes through. A burr will still cut through food in the kitchen, but it's way weaker than a proper edge. Another video of his shows him grinding the edge off a knife completely and cutting through ingredients no problem. Kitchen knives are typically thin, meaning they'll produce very little drag and keep enough momentum to snap through their medium uninterrupted. Properly sharpening your stones with today's materials (diamond stone, and a proper strop with abrasive compound) will give you the same or better edge and will last exponentially longer than the steel. Vitreous materials take 3-4x longer to reach the same results, which is probably why chefs have preferred steels for so long.
Great video as usual, ive made a few videos about this and one i did broke the internet, i swear people were coming out of the wood work very angry lol. your video said and showed everything perfectly, thank you for all the hard work Alex one of these days you need to come on a live with me i think it would be a good time
Lets do it!!!
@@OUTDOORS55 I think in past people left the burr as some "tooth" to the blade for cutting soft skinned veg. Essentially a poor man's substitute for a sharp knife. Many I have seen have no grooves just a smooth rod
That would be glorious
You always can use Knife Sharpening Honing diamond stick without any issues!!
dude you're a scammer that tells folks to buy overly cost rebranded alibaba junk off amazon affiliate links as 3x the cost. and the "advice" you give is often full of errors and inconsistencies that you don't notice or don't care enough to learn better. why are knife bros basically the most annoying mofos out thete.
I actually like Ceramic Hone Rods alot! They work the exact way for people who are used to old Steels, and they often fit into the Knife block many people have!
They also work with the harder Japanese knife steels too
As a professional knife sharpener I appreciate how you have approached this video and explanation of how a steel works and better alternatives.
As a professional chef who can do more work with a knife in one day than a home cook will do in a year I would say that a good steel still has it's place to maintain an edge quickly and efficiently. They never have and never will sharpen a dull knife but they do keep a good edge "clean".
A good test of whatever technique to maintain an edge would be to finely dice 20kg's of onions or do a few kg's of carrot julienne.
Traditional European chef's knives tend not to have a fine bevel, 20 plus degrees, it's only the fairly recent uptake of Asian style knives where the bevel becomes finer and they are designed and used differently.
It's a bit of a rabbit hole but boils down to the correct tool for the work required and the correct maintenance and use of the tool.
Thank you for the thought provoking vid, all the best.
Key: to MAINTAIN an edge. Sharpen the knife, then keep it sharp with the steel.
agreed, I'm no chef but I do use a knife a lot in a kitchen, and these steels work wonders when used correctly. I don't know how anyone ever got the idea that they sharpen knives. This video saying that steels are obsolete just goes to show how even a person with experience can be ignorant in some areas. I think chefs use knives more than anyone else on the planet, and they'll know best about this subject
@@moonasha he literally cut a 2x4 it was still sharp. How would lightly cutting an onion even damage it in the slightest comparing it 1 to 1
@@ruki1r I think the main cause of bending and messing up the edge comes from hitting the cutting board, not cutting the vegetables. And its a death from a thousand cuts so to speak ^^
@@GA1313E yes and bone probably but as he demonstrated as well that a sharper blade can withstand the cutting board up to 500x compared to a honed only knife
I actually find these rods helpful when used in the right application. I use mine for very light "tune ups" in between proper sharpening - not repairing edges or anything just light maintenance. I usually sharpen my kitchen knives about once a year and then use the rod after every 2nd or 3rd use. This has worked very well for me and my knives are always razor sharp, but maybe it's a placebo effect or maybe it's only working because my knives are starting off properly sharpened. Great video in any case.
You're right. Honing rods are actually great, especially for maintaining knives with a pretty soft edge.
I like hard knife steels... to sharpen my card scrapers 😜
You always can use Knife Sharpening Honing diamond stick without any issues!!
Exactly, they work well to tune up a properly sharpened edge that has been slightly dulled
( rounded ). Especially on softer steel.
I'm a professional carpenter / woodworker and have been sharpening everything from axes to razors for 50 years, and I think a lot of these guys kind of get lost in the weeds and overthink things.
And after sharpening with coarser India or Arkansas stones the steel would smooth and/or bend over the tops of the deep scratches and give the edge a smoother cutting “feel” for sure, and some might call that sharper than before. I always heard that the metal edge gets pushed and smeared around.
I think some pro chef should come on the show and demonstrate before & after the steel use, and only after cutting real food and not just playing woodpecker with the knife (and with better quality knifes too). I respect Outdoors55’s blade making & sharpening, but don’t give a demonstration of something that you have no experience with. I think if there is something to learn about “sharpening steels” then seek out someone that makes a living with it, like chefs and butchers.
Dude- that was the best demonstration of the mechanics and theory of edge, burr, and honing steel I’ve ever seen. Well done…. And thank you very much for this video!!
Can I just take a second to thank you for taking into the time and effort to improve your equipment, investing into that fancy magnification, which makes your videos even better and even more useful ?
Thank you !
Funny, though, the fancy magnification to show the rolled edge was almost unnecessary. His studio lighting made it jump right out at 4:03 when he held the knife up in front of himself!
Thank you for continuing my knife sharpening knowledge and removing all the inaccurate information ive learned through the years.
I have used knife steels my entire life in the charcuterie community. I have a set of 3 traditional German steels, course, medium, fine and was taught to use them in the early 1960's working in a 3rd generation German owned butcher shop and locker plant. I was taught to use a leading edge stroke to restore the edge as needed when, lets say, deboning 1000 lbs. of pork butts to make sausage, for example. A few quick strokes were taken every 10 of 15 minutes as needed to restore the edge; very quick and painless. Our simple carbon steel knives were usually sharpened only once a day on average and knowing how to use a steel kept a sharp edge thru the long days. I've never in all my life seen a trailing edge stroke used nor such an extremely course knife steel. Go work in a packing plant for a few years, youngster, and there you will learn what's really happening in the meat cutting world.
You are exactly correct. I worked in a butcher shop for several years back in the days of sawdust and wooden cutting surfaces (it wasn't until the Carter administration when plastic was introduced - the the industry was forced into using it - much to the detriment of the health of the consumer). Our video here is an example of the "perfect being the enemy of the good." If you're working in a packing plant environment, a steady pace is essential to productivity. Using the steel periodically as needed will assist you in keeping that professional pace. There's work to be done. The microscopic images are cool to look at, but they're over the top and unnecessary to understanding why a professional meat cutter would need to use a honing steel.
Exactly I worked in a lamb boning hall for 7 years, I still own my German Dick Multi-Cut steel. Sharpen my boning knife in the morning and keep it sharp throughout the day. We were doing on average 4000 lamb a day.
Steels don't sharpen knives, they keep them sharp is the old motto.
Maybe understanding adhesive wear would shed a light here. Most people just understand the abrasive wear, while adhesive wear is rather unknown. Check the wikipedia regarding "honing steel", and check also the link as the source of information.
"There is some evidence of softened metal being redistributed; however, a micro-bevel is unquestionably formed through metal removal."
Watch his video where he tests knives on meat and food related items. He explains how kitchen knives can seem seem sharp even with a squared off edge due to edge geometry. He shows why people have different ideas of "sharpness" based on what they tend to cut.
10:06 - if I understood him correctly, removing the burr properly will give hundreds if not thousand times better edge retention (i.e. the edge will stay sharp for a lot longer).
This video is arguing that steel honing rods do not remove the burr properly, it merely straightens it out for a bit.
All I know is that a quick touch up with a steel, opposite direction to the way you demonstrated, restores the edge on my kitchen knives. How it’s working, I don’t care. I just know it works, fast and easy.
You should stroke forward with a steel and you have to have the blade at high enughangle that you are actually stroking the edge not the flanks like like it appeared you were doing. Steels doing several tings depending on the knife steel alloy and its hardness. A perfectly smooth polished steel will straighten a slightly rolled edge and will also work harden it (depending on alloy). A serrated steel can actually remove metal and can thus sharpen a softer knife if it is not too dull. In general knife steels are at their best tuning up a nearly sharp edge. Darken our knife bladw with a sharpie to make sure you are actually honing the edge and not the flanks of the edge. With practice ou can feel and hear it when you are actually working the edge and not the flanks.
Yes. He was also very clumsy with the steel. And he wants to speak like an expert on the topic.
Every time I've use a rod it's greatly improved the cutting ability of the knife. And I have two sharpening stones.
Great video you did a outstanding job explaining this topic ive always been skeptical of those steel rods this video confirmed my suspicion and taught me a few things thanks man keep it up 🤙🤙
Wonderful video & must have taken a lot of work. Really appreciate providing actual evidence rather than just information.
They work very well, i am a chef and these rods are a must in any kitchen.
Trust me they really do something, i can keep a knife sharp for years in a professional kitchen setting with these.
I use them edge leading though.
I don't think you understand how happy I am to have found this channel. A light in the darkness that is the knife maintenance and sharpening community. Thank you for your work!!! I recommend it to everyone I know.
I totally agree, Alex! I've never had a use for honing steels. Thanks for the detailed info supporting my thoughts.
thanks. i had been using a steel for many years until i purchased a diamond sharpening tool. never went back, but thanks for educating me on the HOW and the WHY the steel performed so poorly. i learned something new today!! -best
Must admit, I prefer when you draw. Love the zoom details, but it's much easier to see/understand when you draw it, like you did.
Thank you for making this, been wandering about honing steels for such a long time. And like your other videos, you show and answer questions in a definitive way, which is NOWHERE else on the internet! Thank you!
I liked the microscope better. But maybe the drawing is required for first time explanations, when we don't know what we are looking at.
@@diox8tonyI think my ideal would be the microscope view with a little diagram to orient us to what we're looking at.
I was thinking about this during the video. I think the micro shots are hard to see because of the reflection and lack of context.
I think a micro video would be ideal, but flipping between a few shots that have been nudged slightly might be enough.
It would also help if the depth of field weren't so shallow. Something like a probe lens would give more context.@@NickTerry
In my experience, both whetstones and steels have their place. Whetstones cut the bevel and refine it. Steels “get you by” for a while before needing to return to the stones. On steels, I use edge leading passes with med/light pressure. Start out flatter than the bevel and slowly increase your angle until you start to feel it slightly begin to bite……hold that angle. Also it’s important to move the blade in both axis across the steel.
I was a professional knife sharpener in a fish plant for about 30 to 40 filleters. (unfortunately 50% of them had no idea what "sharp" meant) One filleter in particular wanted his knife "sharp enough to shave with". I decided to give him exactly what he asked for and spent about 3 seconds using my medium steel. I told him to shave his arm hairs and he was extremely impressed until he had to "saw" through his fillet. After complaining that it was the dullest knife he ever used, I spent another minute with my smooth steel. He tried shaving and complained that it wouldn't, but with 2 fingers and his thumb holding the knife, glided through the fillet with ease, commenting that it was the "sharpest" he ever used. He never asked for me to make his knives "razor sharp" again.
@@bobwellman9717 New to sharpening here, could you explain why the one that cuts hair won't cut a fillet, but the one that won't cut hair will cut a fillet?
@mattjohnson9727
I'm not sure that I can. First off, "they" were both the same knife.When "shavable", it did in fact fillet a fish, but it wasn't easy. I can say that a "razor sharp" knife is the beginning of a really sharp knife, but it still needs that jagged edge smoothed. After the microscopic barbs are removed, I have said in the past (maybe mistakenly) that it's too smooth to "grab" the hair. I was/am 100% self taught, except for the part about using steels (50%).
@@mattjohnson9727 I also regularly hone straight razors. Typically they have 16-17 degree bevels. Those bevels are extremely smooth and refined to the point where they will cut a single hair when brought to the edge effortlessly. I would guess the knifes steel couldn’t take the acute bevel and it developed a burr. The burr would cut hair, but broke off on the fish. Even if it did take a nice bevel, very acute bevels are easily destroyed.
@@mattjohnson9727 he mentioned in the video, burrs can be sharp enough to cut hair but they break off easily especially when you fillet through mussel fiber, good fillet knife or any knife need the burr removed and use the apex to cut
Thank you so much for this video! I have wondered this for years as well, and have tried to find the answer with no luck. this all makes perfect sense, thank you.
I've been using a polished steel rod with good effect for light "straightening" of a highly polished edge. I would be interested in your take on this type of steel. Thank you for the great videos! Keep them coming!
These most certainly have their place in high volume, high production food processing environments. When you simply dont have the time to form a true apex and just need something razor sharp in 30 seconds off of a belt sander, these things are an absolute god send. I take any soft steel victorinox knife and within seconds its razor sharp and with the help of a solid honing steel, it can help me hold the edge through 5 beef carcasses before i need to take it back to be apexed again. And im genuinely confused as to why, but i swear with practice, swiping fast works well. Enjoyed the video, but i genuinely think these still hold a solid place in the processing world or for people who need a quick fix
I'm that honing rod guy - and love to look like I know what I'm doing in the kitchen. And yes often have success w/it - no doubt because like you say I still had a burr on the edge. ..but I CAN learn and you converted me with this vid! Christmas for me was the sharpening attachment for my Ameribrade grinder - I run it backwards and slow and then finish on the diamond stone and strop(please do NOT ruin this for me!). I pledge to henceforth make the burr, remove the burr, properly sharpen my knives and leave that rod safely in my knife block. You're a good man Charlie Brown - thanks A LOT for this vid. You kinda ROCK. :)
This video clears up so much confusion. THANK YOU!
OMG! Your videos about knife sharpening is a life changer for me! It's one of those things that is so simple to implement yet makes life so much better. Thank you!
I usually use a honing rod when the knife doesn't feel quite sharp all the way and after using it 2 or 3 times i just sharpen the blade properly.
I feel like it helps when you have tiny "nicks" in the blade to get rid of the displaced metal. Whatever it does, the blade feels sharper afterwards.
It's mangling the edge and giving you a ton of jagged burrs, which makes the knife "seem" sharper than it was before, but it's very short-lived and actually does more longterm damage to the edge. Ask me how I know.
Quite possible. Still sharpens fine on a stone afterwards tho. @@dirtyketchup
Thank you so much for this video. Honing rods have always been a mystery to me. nobody in my kitchen could ever agree about what they actually did, and yet everyone but me had one and loved doing the speedy gonzalez with it. It's great to finally have the nerd clarification on this topic
What always gets me is that even _if_ it did anything, such speedy "sharpening" would simply serve to ruin the edge anyway. Speedy means sloppy, and sloppy means you're going to fuck up your alignment. You'd never hit a sharpening stone or a strop at light speed, but so many cooks seem to think slapping their knife against a metal rod that fast will magically fix their edge.
@@jamesruth100 You don't understand. They've done it so many times and they have such an immense amount of experience that they can do it lightning fast without any mistakes. Well, that's what they want you to think anyway.
@@treborrrrr "I can find the angle in my sleep" says the man holding a paring knife that was once a santoku.
Wicked outro! Also loved the info, I've always wondered about honing rods.
Another enlightening video on how and what to get your knives sharp. A picture speaks a thousand words and Alex's pictures speak volumes. And Yes! I have a steel honing rod and yes it will make the knife cut somewhat better, but nothing compares to sharpening it to a proper apex, and then getting rid if that pesky burr. I now use a leather strop on wood with diamond paste to refresh my edges in the kitchen. Does an excellent job and it also removes any burr I might have missed in the first go around . Cheers for sharing, however for a number of people this is going to fall on deaf ears..for others, enlightenment! ☀️Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦 MikeR.
But why are you using it backwards?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you're less likely to bang the edge on it. seems smart
I am really happy to find your channel. After spending the several hours on your channel I still find good tips to improve my sharpening skills. Keep up the good work!
Great post Alex. I will be showing this to some people I know. You have explained soething that I failed miserably to get over to them on several occaisions. Thank you.
Man i wish i knew/seen this yrs back! Always felt like knife steel felt lackluster using. Then got a diamond steel n felt way better. Great vid and channel
Considering that we have, on occasion, had competitions in our restaurant kitchen to sharpen the back of a butter knife by using these steels I can 100% confirm that the steel does sharpen a knife. I also worked alongside a butcher who had to replace a couple of his knives every 18 months or so as he wore out his knives . . . on a steel. At 7:36 you mention there's a lack of understanding. Yes you're right, you don't understand them. Arguing over terminology does not negate the fact that a professional butcher does not use a whetstone yet has to replace a knife every year and a half, and we have on occasion turned a butter knife spine into a shaving implement, means it does, indeed, sharpen.
i do agree completely
Went into this one fearing my 1200 ceramic rod would have to go. Glad to see I haven't been imagining things. One of the challenges I'm having is figuring out if leading or trailing pulls are better. I think this kind of answered that one, too. I should be using light pulls forward to polish the apex ever so slightly.
Semi-light leading edge passes are for sharpening, light trailing edge passes are for honing and removing the burr.
with abrasives, direction doesn't matter, as he already showed in another (old) video
... trailing may be EASIER to go light and thus remove any burrs, tho. but under the microscope, the result should be the same (assuming the same force is applied and there's no edge rolling, that is)
I have learnt so much from your knife sharpening video's! thankyou and keep them coming
Hi, Alex! You are the Best without exception. Happy NEW YEAR to You and Yours--always....
Great content as usual. Thank you for all your informative and entertaining videos.
My mate is a chef. He says that rods are great for a fast touch-up while working in a hectic kitchen, because proper sharpening takes time he just doesn't have. His knives are beautiful and next level sharp. "I can only work as fast as my knives let me, and a sharp knife is a fast knife," he told me. He absolutely cherishes them because they're a joy to use, they keep a scalpel like edge, and they pay his bills.
Thank you for this! I had no idea it was meant for fixing a rolled edge! All this time I've been using it to remove the burr left by my pull-thru knife sharpener!
High quality production, a very classy video and equally classy content to match.
Thanks.
I have used sharpening steels for about fifty years. They can bring a knife from dull to shaving sharp. I was taught to slice the blade along the steel with the edge leading. I’ve worked in a fish processing factory and saw sharpening steels being used constantly. Steels were also used in meat processing. While I’ve heard it said that a steel is used to merely straighten the edge and that no metal is removed from the blade, I know for sure that a steel can remove steel shavings from the blade. A magnetic steel will collect shavings and if you check the edge with a magnifier before and after sharpening you may see a difference in the scratch pattern. A processing worker once told me that a steel is not doing a proper job unless you can feel it bite into the blade.. Some steels may be of such poor quality as to be regarded as useless, and some people may not use a steel to the best advantage, but good steels in the hands of good operators help to keep a blade sharp and fish or meat moving down the line.
This is exactly why an abrasive rod is a much better option. The idea is to use something of an abrasive quality to remove/ minimize the burr, and keep an acute apex despite some dulling while in use. Its a much better option for modern harder knife steels. A honing steel would need to be harder than the knife steel for any material to be removed. The knife in this video was a $1 knife at 50hrc and is about the softest knife available. And a non abrasive honing rod is still not up to the task. While yes the knife may feel sharper it will be short lived
As I explained in this video 👇
You're Sharpening Your Knives Wrong - How To Make Any Knife 1000x Better
ua-cam.com/video/sW0bd3Rt_QY/v-deo.html
@@OUTDOORS55 I've got a selection of abrasive rods and I even splashed out on a 'diamond' steel. They are all useful. However I generally revert to using a sharpening steel when processing fish and game because it works for me. And sharpening steels have been used by thousands of processing workers in dozens of processing plants around my country for many decades. They are still in use... but I have to say that the processing knives (many of them made by Victory Knives in New Zealand) seem to have a slightly softer steel and thinner blades than some that seem to be popular with some folks nowadays. While a perfectly sharpened knife made from a special steel with optimum geometry might cut better for a few more minutes or even hours, it will eventually have to be sharpened again. This can take time, and of course not every processing worker is.... or even aspires to be.... a sharpening expert. I was a maintenance engineer at a fish processing plant, and eventually became involved with purchasing. I bought a lot of knives, steels and stones to be used in the factory which had hundreds of staff. The processing department tried various sharpening ideas but they seemed to revert back to long sharpening steels with protective rubber washers (because the forward blade strokes were alternated on the top and bottom of the steel and the end of the stroke was right down at the handle of the steel). They had electric, water-cooled rotary knife grinders to use when the edge needed thinning, however a lot of work was done on two types of bench stone... a grey silicon carbide (or maybe aluminium oxide) stone with a 'medium' grit.... and some red, fairly soft, fine Japanese water stones for the second stage. The guys and gals using these knives, steels and stones were practical people making the best of the time and materials that were available to them, and their knives were very sharp indeed. Best wishes....
I wonder if you are creating a saw tooth pattern with the steel. Having it bite in and all.
Classic boomer obstinance in the face of reality
I've used steels for many years in professional kitchens. Never thought about it in any great detail. I've always thought about it as maintaining an edge rather than sharpening. If you don't use it often it will not bring back a dull knife. I can absolutely tell the difference when slicing something like a tomato or to get much thinner slices or better bite into an onion for example. It absolutely does have a positive affect on the knifes performance. You still need to properly sharpen your knives from time to time.
Unless you're a sushi guy steals do the job just fine.
You are supposed to draw the edge INTO the steel not away. Why does everyone think it is away?
No, you sharpen into the edge.
You correct by drawing the blade away from the edge.
Thank you! Very informative you just solidified what I always suspected. Never had any luck with honing steel, then I learned how to sharpen on diamond stones. No comparison
WOW!
The amount of valuable information in this video is mind-boggling. 🤯
I always thought those rods were for straightening rolled edges!
I love the way Alex always brings the receipts when stating information he has learned through a well documented, scientific process of experimentation, data collection, and THEN drawing his conclusion.
For you skeptics in the comments that rely on "theories" from other so-called experts, forget everything they told you and listen to Alex.
IMHO, Alex is the world's foremost expert in the field of knife sharpening!
I have been taking his advice for several years, and I can finally put a decent edge on a knife, after many years of frustration.
THANK YOU ALEX!!!
You rock, bro!
:)
BTW, I love the production quality of your recent vids!
And, as always, your grest sense of humor adds to the entertainment value, and always leaves me in tears! 😅
I mostly use a completely smooth polishing steel with oval cross section. It 100% works and with 5-10 light pressure passes before use it keeps my knived sharp. You can even see the difference on the edge under bright light.
Yes they work, just not how he thinks they do. A hone is not supposed to unroll an edge, they are to algin/straighten a wavy edge. He never checked how straight an edge is here, so he ignored the whole purpose of a hone by focusing on unrolling an edge, which is not the purpose of a hone.
@@acmhfmggru Yeah I usually like his content, but I'd say he missed the mark too. Maybe if he did some slicing with large chef's knives he'd understand the purpose of a hone.
been wanting a truly quality piece on this subject forever and outdoors55 delivers once again!
I've had several ordinary steel rods for sharpening, and could'nt get a decent sharp knife. Then I got a ceramic one and my kitchen totally changed.
These days I have sharp knives, and just now I know why! Thanks a lot
Very good explanation and only confirms what I was always taught... honing is NOT sharpening. I DO use a ceramic rod to touch up edges if needed on the spot, but there's no substitute for simply maintaining the apex with properly sharpening a blade in the first place when it's time to do so. I don't think most people actually realize what "sharp" actually means, lol. The first time my daughter-in-law used my knives in the kitchen she was flabbergasted...
Superb. Been telling folk for years that a honing steel isn’t for sharpening a knife. Thanks for this 👏🏻
Although we don't have to forget that for many people with not perfect knives this thing makes the knife sharper in a way
@@heni63 it kind of chips the apex and creates some burr as well, only giving the impression it gets sharper. But a proper apex is in fact much much sharper (and will resist better too).
Thanks for revealing this at magnification. I'd heard arguments one way or another for many years, but visibly seeing the effects of a honing steel, contrasted against a diamond stone, solidifies my understanding of the concept.
You always can use Knife Sharpening Honing diamond stick without any issues!!
the magnification didn't prove much except that he doesn't know how to use a steel.
I never trail the blade using a steel, and my knives are sharp enough to slice tomato skins without using any pressure.
I've been doing this for about 25 years. I don't even own a sharpening stone. I don't need one.
I've never tried cutting paper or shaving with my knives either, because I have special tools for that.
EXCELLENT content.
And the studio looked good. Always enjoy your work Alex, take care, good luck with the snow this weekend. 👍👍🔪
Wow! I've used a butchers steel since the late 1960's when I was working as an apprentice meat cutter. With out using microscopic equipment one would have not known. Fortunately I only used the steel on my kitchen knives and not my EDC knives. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us. I'm never too old to learn something new. Thanks brother!
Hi. I've worked in a slaughterhouse for over 26 years and we still to this day use honing steels. As far as I know you misunderstand how to use these. We sharpen our knifes on machines (belt or stone), then we remove the burr on a polishing disc with some polishing compound. Then we use the honing steel dragging the knife towards us, edge first, with very low pressure on the knife.
We do this to maybe 4 or 5 knifes because we have to switch constantly to sterilize the knifes while in use. These knifes will normally be used all day in a tough environment and get dull after some use. (like cutting into bones, hide, sinew and other things)
When they get dull we use the honing steel to get the knife sharp again and it works! But you need to learn how to sharpen the knife and how to "hone" it on the steel, how often and how much pressure. If you are good you sharpen your knifes perhaps 2 times a day. (use them for 7 to 10 hours, butchering pigs, lambs and cows) We would get nothing done if 35 people were to sharpen their knives 15 times each day. The cutters also use honing steels and the best process about 1 cow an hour.
To sharpen your knife is always best if you can. When you don't have the time or opportunity to do so you can get the knife back to about 90-95% sharpness in 10 seconds! This is very useful when you do a lot of work with the knife and it would take too much time to go and sharpen it.
Hope this was coherent and understandable!
All the best from Norway
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Thank you for the work you put into this. It is an interesting topic. I personally use a honing rod after every use of my kitchen knives, and have done so for 20+ years. The last 5 years I have ventured into sharpening and a general knife interest. I do not have a microscope to film my burrs, so I use my fingers to feel it. I suck at free hand sharpening (and have almost destroyed quality knives that way), so I use a guided system, the Work Sharp Precision adjust. It seems to do a better job than factory sharpness, and way better than any of my free hand sharpening attempts. The only free hand sharpening action I do on occasion is free hand stropping.
Back to the honing rod. Both before and after I started to properly sharpen my knives, I find it extends the time between sharpenings, and when other family members (who do not hone or sharpen) have used some knives for an extended period, I can notice they are duller, and then the honing helps. Maybe I have some micro burr. Maybe I roll the edges differently from yours under use. I don’t know, but I know it improves the cutting and slicing ability of the knife.
And the last point: I am obviously honing wrong. I use the honing rod by moving the knife with the edge first. Not in an edge trailing motion, like when stropping, but like I am sharpening. Maybe I create a new micro burr? I use a little pressure, and move at medium speed, being in control and covering the entire length of the blade. I alternate sides, and usually make up to 20 passes in total. I could use a stone or a strap, but they are not as readily available (stones need a stable base and the strop use compounds, etc).
I do not think you mention stropping as an improved alternative to honing, either, but I may not have watched closely enough.
Anyway, I like the video, and would suggest that you try to research what the kitchen knives of people with less sharpening skills than you look like when they consider them sharp, and what their actual use of the knife does to the edge, because I think both the copper pipe roll and the hammering against wood is not proven to be a proper simulation of actual use.
Yeah I never bought the "straightens the rolled edge" because a hone is essentially a file with the teeth cut longitudinal. The steel is glass hard so your stainless kitchen knife is getting cut like butter. I typically use the hone edge-forward first to literally knock off the burr, then backward to burnish the edge. My brother uses a "sharpener" from the hardware section, and all of his knives are "micro-serrated"
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I have used a butcher steel a lot for work purposes in the past. It was always with the edge leading basically trying to slice a thin piece of the steel off.
ty for these informative videos. always learning something new
I needed that video for so long.
Tank you.
Well that explains why I have always felt like the steels that come with knife sets were not doing anything. The only one I have ever had that actually made the knife feel sharper was my grandfather's and it has EZE Lap diamond hone molded in the handle. An abrasive one just like you said.
Careful, you are turning into a Professional UA-camr now also. Production Value through the roof, plus excellent topic and explanation!!!!
Thanks I appreciate it!
For quick hand-held honing I would use an abrasive rod (either round or oval) over cradling the suggested $20 diamond stone in the hand. With a rod your stabilizing hand is no where near the blade during use. Cradling the stone as shown in the video has the stabilizing hand in the path that the knife is traveling. Even with the trailing edge technique, if part of the stabilizing hand is above the surface of the stone it will bump the knife up reducing the effectiveness. And on the return stroke if the knife isn't lifted high enough you may fillet your hand. Safest to keep the supporting hand clear of the working zone. If you are drawing the knife edge first across the stone, any part of the hand above the surface of the stone will be filleted.
A very good explanation that makes perfect sense. Probably why I never used one of these rods.
Awesome video... I have used those "honing" rods for years on a Longline fishing boats.
During my time on boats I have never heard anyone refer to this an honing rod. We call it "steel-ing" the knife (not English speaking country).
We used to sharpen our knifes on a bench grinder sharpener.
During fishing and trying to keep up, we just dont have time to jump over to the grinder.
So we use the rod to keep the knife cutting if we cut into a hook or even rock. Dull knife is a dangerous knife.
but never to sharpen :), just to keep us going a bit longer before we need to sharpen it again.
You always can use Knife Sharpening Honing diamond stick without any issues!!
You are a master of knife related techniques. I have learned from you more than any of the other UA-camr channels combined. Thank you for another excellent video.
Awesome explanation. I appreciate the visuals and advice on what to do instead
Thank you for another informative video. I assumed many of the principals you demonstrated here already. (we all know so much about assumptions) That said I started working as a machinist in the early '90s so have some understanding about metals and burrs. You just did all the work to prove me correct for never having used a "knife steel" in my life. After reading some of your comments by tradesmen with YEARS of knife work experience I would be interested to see how much of what the believe about the steels is real and how much of it is confirmation bias. I have worked with machinist that had 40 years experience that would fight and die to defend old habits that has always been but does almost nothing.
Just because the edge looks a certain way doesnt mean it's not functional, polished edges can sometimes be counter productive for certain applications when you're hitting bones all the time at the meatworks your perfect edge wont last long at all, thats where the hone comes in. With respect I can tell you have very little experience using a steel by how sloppy and slow you looked. As someone who worked in a butchery i can tell you these are essential. No one has time to go do a full sharpen when you're on company time processing beasts, thats what the mornings are for, even if you have a great edge i doubt it'll last longer than 1 hour of hard work processing a grade. They are still used in every major plant in New Zealand for a reason. If it was true your claim thay the steel is irrelevant then why would so many million dollar processing plants require these for their workers. Such a weird take
might not look pretty in a microscope and i probably wouldn't shave my beard with it, but as long as it cuts onions well with little effort it's good enough for me.
true, time is money.
Very interesting video, and BTW your videos are much slicker these days! It also appears that the steels create a very small burr which will then be aligned with the apex, hence a very short lasting boost to cutting performance. It would be interesting to see a properly sharpened & deburred edge after a few dozen goes on the steel. I reckon that it would produce a very small burr.
Great job!
I thought the same. I believe « honing » steel rods are actually (unknowingly to most) adding a temporary burr (a rather straight, not rolled over or bent one). And that people find the knife becomes sharper because actually the burr, being irregular, acts as a sort of serrated edge. But obviously this won’t last long, as the burr is very fragile and gets removed by pieces into whatever you are cutting, aka food itself as well as the cutting boards, plates, dishes,… so you soon need another few passes on the rod to actually recreate the burr.
It would be very interesting, as a sequel to this very interesting video, to try cutting (very thin tomato slices, then a paper sheet) with :
1/ a not-so-sharp blade that has had a few light honing rod passes,
2/ then, the exact same blade with the burr removed just by honing on some cardboard plate (which is a famous ultra-cheap and supposedly rather efficient way of removing a burr)
3/ the same knife after a proper fine sharpening and burr removal.
My guess : on tomato, 1 and 3 would be great and 2 would suck. On a paper sheet, 1 would be irregular cut, 2 would be just dull, and only 3 would make clean, crisp, easy cuts.
I would happily bet 1€ on this
@@joso5554 now this is an interesting video idea!
Love the detail you can show in the videos now. Really helps tell the story.
I am one of those few people who still use a scythe. My dad used to sharpen it once a year on a grinding wheel, and then we used a ceramic rod a whole lot while out in the field, same technique as this rod. Like once every 5 min I was taught. I would love a video on sharpening scythes - it will be up to me now...
For anyone with ears to listen, these videos on sharpening have been stellar. They are well reasoned and backed up with some ass kicking videogrpahy. Nice work, man! I'm headed to the garage tk get the DMT stone.
Good sharpening needs different types of stones, a bit of water and a lot of love. Maybe leather in the end of the process. Every other way is for ignorants disrespecting their blades
I sharpened my knife properly for the first time today and now I'm watching this video while making very thin slices of a piece of paper with the knife. It's very enjoyable. Thanks for your tips!
I’ve learned so much from your channel, thank you for all your content.
So would ceramic rods still be reasonably effective for touching up edges on the fly?
Question. Why did you use edge leading strokes on the diamond stone to compare with the edge trailing strokes on the honing steel? Regardless, great video. Plus, your highly magnified stills are truly enlightening. Good work.
The honing steel straightens the edge which is bent to the side. Edge trailing strokes bend back to the original position by bending in the reverse direction.
Different stones may or may not allow you to use edge leading strokes. The edge leading stroke will create less of a bur on a stone than an edge trailing stroke.
If you have a coarse metal file and a piece of mild steel you can see the difference. A lawnmower blade or any thicker metal will work for this. Try to make an edge going in both directions. The bur will be visible without a magnifying lense.
FINALLY..!!!!!! someone else with a little common sense.. I've been saying this exact thing for years and people thought I was stupid, yet they were sharpening/honing 100 times to my once...
Common sense isn't common.
Agreed.. @@0num4
Great video. I have learned something new today, Big thanx!
Excellent. The number of times I've had to explain the difference between 'sharpening' a knife and 'honing' a knife blade. Thanks.
Can you explain the use of TWO strops at 10:43 ? I haven’t seen you do that before. Apparently two different cutting compounds/grit size, but I’m dying for a longish video on the why when and how.
The same principle as using two stones. Its just a simple grit progression 🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 Microscope pics on the progression soon? And differences in sharpness and longevity?
From my experience, you are 100% right. I think the reason for this myth is the lack of availability of wetstones in the old times in combination with education in professional cooking and butchering, knife sharpening is not included there. If you look at the books, they say „use honing rod, and if knife is dull, give it to service“. My father was a professional cook, and I never saw him really sharpen a knive on a wetstone or something, I doubt that he knew about wetstones at all. But his cooking skills were amazing, btw.
For me as a experienced, but not professional cook, knive sharpening is a side job, I only do it for having sharp knives, the food and the cooking is the star of the show. But I can order these amazing wetstones in one minute online, and then they ship them from Japan to Germany in short time. Our Oldies didn’t have that option.
Since I learned to sharpen my knifes on wetstone, I don’t need the honing rod anymore. But, I’m still using it sometimes, I give the knife some slaps on each side, so my family knows that something really good will come out of the kitchen.
I followed your advice and ordered the shaptons 1000/2000/5000 some weeks ago. I don’t do any test like cutting paper, I test my knifes on the subject (meat, vegetables and so on). They cut like laser beams, amazing.
Greetings from Germany, love your videos.
Thanks so much 🙏🙏👊
Love your video. Respect the evidence-based approach. So educational!
Thanks for clearing this up. I stopped using the chef steel that came with my knife set a long time ago because it just didn't do anything good. I did the same steps of trying it in as many different techniques as I could dream up and knife just didn't get sharper.
THANK YOU !! FINALLY SOMEONE SAYS IT !!✔✔😎😎
haha, the princess bride part slayed me, that was so perfect lol. I have never used a "honing steel" before, now I'm glad I never wasted the money on it.
This was very educational, thanks for the video! I didn't know what a burr was, so I looked it up; the video made more sense to me after that.
The microscopic views were exceptionally helpful. More consistent lighting between shots may have been helpful though.
I must admit, I have one of these (non abrasive), and never got great results.
And now I know why....
Thanks for explaining this so well!! 🙏
your knife videos are awesome, please keep them coming. love your work
Thank you for another great video. I want to add a couple things. Everyone in the world who uses these, moves in the opposite direction. It seems obvious to me that such a movement could not possibly straighten a roll, but people will steadfastly believe it anyway. I find the vast majority of unsharpening that happens to kitchen knives is just regular dulling, not rolling. I think to roll a knife you must be seriously abusing it or using a steel that is more garbage than even most $1 knives have. For a knife that is dulling, a honing rod will tear up the apex, putting micro-serrations into it. Those micro-serrations will improve the slicing ability somewhat for a short time (I think. maybe you can test it?). I think this is the benefit people are getting from using a honing steel. You can get that from using it in the direction most people use them. If you value having actually sharp knives, and have the ability to actually sharpen them, then tearing up the apex is not desirable. This is what I teach in my sharpening classes. For most people, however, they don't know how to sharpen and their knives are abysmally dull, so it probably doesn't hurt, but it's not getting them much improvement either, just wasting everyone's time and space.
This is exactly why people are perceiving A difference in sharpness after using A non abrasive hone. That is Also why they have to do it every 5 minutes and the knife has basically 0 edge Retention
Because they are basically cutting on what is essentially.
A fine burr or wire That rolls right over after A short amount of cutting And they see And Feel that Lip be created And that's what they're calling a Rolled edge when in reality it's just the Find wire bending over And or Pieces of the burr bending over. That is created From slamming the edge into the grooves in the hone. It's a very pointless tool it serves no True point and it's Something people think looks cool when in reality it's just further Destroying The already dull edge. However the damage that's happening is basically just creating ragged Micro serrations That are giving the illusion Of The knife cutting better.
he's just trashing it because he doesn't know how to use it. Edge LEADING is a must, and very light pressure. They act just like very fine files, and remove material and create a microbevel at the edge if done correctly.
I learned a lot from this video. I've always had the question how to use a honing steel: Pull the blade over it backwards, or push it forwards. I see you pulling it backwards and that makes sense if you want to remove the burr (or if it could, unroll the edge). It seems like the people who do it really fast push it instead of pulling...
In the comparison between the diamond stone you say, its the exact same motion, but its not. You push the blade forward over the diamond stone and you pull it over the honing rod.
Not even that interested in sharpening, but your videos are so well done, perfect camera shots and explainations, cheers!
I love science Alex!
I always thought that the steel was used to "clean up" an edge that had just been sharpened on a stone (or pull through sharpener). I never really thought about what "clean up" actually meant, or was actually doing. Thanks for the info.
love your content, I always learn something new