BETTER alternative to a non abrasive honing rod → amzn.to/3tAEObW Affiliated link- As an amazon associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Important🛑⬇️ For further explanation on what I did test, and addressing concerns I "didnt use it correctly" See this video⬇️ ua-cam.com/video/65JzsDU_0mI/v-deo.html I address all of the Comments concerned in this video, and the linked videos. And before leaving a comment telling me i did something wrong, please watch the WHOLE video, since most of the questions are actually answered but not comprehend by them commenter who has issues. Also If any butchers want to send me a knife they have sharpened, and one that has been "steeled" for analysis under the microscope, and sharpness testing please Email me in my about page👍 This video still stand as completely accurate. I literally show pictures of what these actually do. And thats the REAL POINT of this video⬇ Also notice there wasnt any sharpness testing in this video. This isnt about whether or not these can "technically sharpen". You can technically sharpen on a rock, that doesn’t make it a good idea, or the best method. This video is about showing what these do to Your knife edge.
I don't know what you mean exactly, but ususally with Ceramic rods, you get what you pay for. Not all of them work the same.That means, that not all of them are the same quality, or grit. I like to have at least 2 different grits. one for my outdoors sharpening kit, which I want it to be low grit, effective and fast, and one very fine grit, for in home sharpneing, where I use it both to maintain my blades sharp, but also as a final stage, after sharpening on stones. I only strop a bit on newspaper, after the final passes on ceramic. that provides a scary sharp edge, that I can't even touch with my thumb, to see how sharp it is, because even the lightest touch, you feel it cuts into your skin!! @@timifaehrtfahrrad
I sharpen knives for living, since the early 90's. That's both my main job, and I also do extra work at home. What you say on this video,is all 100% spot on! I'm tired of trying to convincce people, who believe they sharpen their knives with these steel rods, that they actually do nothing! I advise them, to at least get a ceramic rod, yet they insist on steel rods,because as they say, I'm wrong ,their knives do get sharper".... How fool and "blind" have most people around the world become, is the real problem here.
As a knife enthusiast ive had so many arguments about the usefulness of these honing rods with friends that work in the food industry. Its one of those things where tradition overrides logic, they almost all refuse to use anything else
The fact is, the knives we use in restaurant kitchens are more functional after some passes on a steel like this. So in a kitchen these are practical. Kitchens aren't about science, they are about being practical and fast. Not every knife is going to be properly sharpened, and you just need to have it cut your damn prep NOW. If one of my prep cooks was taking 5 minutes to pass his knives on a stone all the time I would send him home. I also don't want some 18-year-old trying to learn to use stones at all. I've seen people who are inexperienced with stones absolutely ruin knives. Even (sometimes especially) experienced chefs. So in a high volume kitchen a steel does the job of keeping a knife cutting. And it DOES have a noticeable effect on the house knives that were sharpened by some goof with a grinding wheel who has no idea what he is doing. I'll keep upgrading my stones and keeping my personal knives as sharp as I can, but I don't expect that of everyone else.
@@inthefade what you say doesn’t make much sense. If it’s all about having functional knives, then why not just spending the same amount of effort and time using a stone instead of a honing rod and actually getting better results? And you’re talking about not wanting some to use sharpening stones but then you use honing rods to really destroy the apex on your knives!
I am so thankful that in mexico we had known those rods are shit for years and are starting to disappear They disappearing so much I haven't seen one in a store for like 10 years
@@inthefadeit's more practical for all the restaurants in my area to just have like 5 knife sets for every chef then after the day someone gets paid extra to sharpen the knifes
I have a relative that was showing off his $300 Japanese kitchen knife that he was very proud of. He demonstrated how he "sharpened" it on a steel rod, then handed the knife to me. It was literally the dullest knife I've ever handled and had a very visibly damaged and rolled edge. I tried to nicely suggest that he should sharpen it on a stone, but he was in total denial that the knife wasn't already sharp and quickly took it away from me.
What is even more funny about that is if it's a $300 Japanese kitchen knife. It is likely ran very Hard 63-65hrc or higher. That's steel hone He is using is probably only 56-58hrc Or if it's a high quality steel hone it may be ran upwards of 61ish. Point is in all likelihood the Knife steel is much harder then the steel hone. And that is what really tickles me when people say they are sharpening their knife on a steel hone and when you tell them its not "sharpening" because it can't cut the knife steel and they say "well what do you think the grooves are doing" tickles me to the core... I guess Most people don't understand that in order to cut something What's doing the cutting has to be harder then what's being cut. So when you explain that they're not sharpening they just can't fathom that and will argue with you endlessly. Using a steel hone on a very hard and very fine edge Japanese knife is doing nothing other then causing chipping at the apex every time they slap the knife to the steel rod. I see that all the time (I'm a professional free hand sharpener) on knives that people send in to have sharpend. Its Mostly Shun knives I see it the worst on or in some cases (and it makes me sick) on small batch rare and very expensive customs.. in some of the steels that shun are running up around 65hrc and shuns have notoriously thin edges and the knives I get sent literally feel like a fine tooth hacksaw and it's very easy to see exactly what they did that caused it. How its so easy to tell that they was using a steel hone and that's what did the damage is because the chipping will be the worst right near the heel of the blade/edge termination because that are doing that exact crazy stuff gorden Ramsey shows off. They are slapping the knife to the steel hardest right near the heel and it just absolutely eats those thin/fine EXTREMELY HARD cutting edges up.. it does it bad enough on soft German steels that have quite thick edge geometry but on then super thin edge geometry with super hard steels it's absolutely brutal how badly it destroys them. The average person doesn't know what a Sharp knife is, most people get a 1 dollar from the dollar store and drag their finger down the side and will say that's a sharp knife or a new 10 dollar Chicago cutlery chefs knives from box stores are "RAZOR SHARP" just sharpened some knives for a guy a couple weeks ago and one of his friends was over and using one of the chef knives I sharpened for him and was trimming fat off of a beef roast and caught the side of his hand below his thumb and he sent me a Pic of him getting 7 stitches.
That’s why I always tell people to buy standard German knifes (I’m from germany, so biased). Japanese steel is great, but you have to know what you’re doing, and most people don’t. Standard steel from Germany or US is the best for most people, easy to sharpen and easy to maintain. From my experience, owners of Japanese knifes have the dullest knifes, because they only buy it for the show. In Germany, the Shun knifes have become famous with a TV-Cook, „Tim Mälzer“. Would never buy one of these
@@EDCandLaceA honing rod doesn't intend to remove material, but aligns the edge, while fixing chips that break off due to metal fatigue. I respect you being a professional sharpener, but hardness isn't very relevant for a honing rod.
10:07. Long time knife-maker and sharpener. You are the first person Ive ever seen to call this out. You really do know what you're talking about. Subscribed
Hes doing it wrong though. Hes not leading with the edge. And it doesnt work on super steels, but soft stainless seen in scandi grine butchering and skinning knives. This is one of those things were both sides are right but fail to understand
I'm a life long knife user, kitchen and butcher knives with a pocket knife in my pocket. I keep them very sharp. Cutting up in the kitchen never is like rolling the edge against hard drawn copper pipe. That is absolutely not what a steel corrects. It restores an edge's sharpness. Not 100%, maybe 95%. Steel when an edge starts to dull and bam, sharp again. The good part is no steel is removed from the knife in restoring the edge. Using a steel I sharpen on a stone 3 or 4 times a year rather than once a week without steel. My 40 yr old knives still have virtually their whole blade. Butchers tended not to re--grove their steels, calling them "slicks." Sharpening/honing rods are abrasive sharpeners, not steels. Proper stroke on a steel is nothing like that used on honing rods here then imitated on a steel to prove the steel does nothing. Wrong, steels save knives. Follow what you will and do what you want to with your own knives.
I've been cooking for years and have been worshipping the honing steels for making kitchen work easier. This completely changed how I look at all this. Very scientific, very detailed and evident. I'm very glad I stumbled onto this channel, I feel very educated.
The worse experience is when a chef uses a honing steel rod on his knife, and proceeds to cut meat to serve me without first cleaning the steel shavings from the knife and I can see the shavings on the meat on your plate. I lost count of the number of times I had to remind the chef to clean the shaving first. And what is even worse is some of them become annoyed by the request which tells me they are totally clueless.
TBH, that makes perfect sense - they don't actually know much about knives beyond using them in the kitchen, and are not aware they are creating steel shavings when they do that. And since they've developed habits based upon that through years of education and/or on-the-job experience before they even become chefs, that is exactly what would happen. The food-service industry is one of the worst in terms of 'old, bad habits that stick around because of tradition.' A majority of formally educated chefs around the world believe strongly in 'traditional' Italian rules of cooking that reflect the attitudes of people in a very specific period of the 1890s, because a bunch of 'former' fascists decided that the only acceptable way to cook was the way *their* specific grandmas made it. The fads and superstitions of a specific decade were Locked In permanently and chefs still quote these 'rules' as gospel truth.
Oh dear god. I assure u that chef is using a polished steel that removes zero metal and also has a magnet. They would never be using even a regular cut steel on their knives
I teach sharpening at a woodworking store where I work part time. I'm constantly amazed at how many people have no idea what sharp really is. Recently sharpened a set of kitchen knives for a customer and he could not believe how well they cut. I am not a professional, just an enthusiast who enjoys sharp objects. (hmm, sounds weird out loud.) :-) I've had that discussion with people about honing steels, and as you say most don't want to believe it. I always recommend they throw it away and at least buy a ceramic rod instead.
Ah yes the woodworking sharp. I have my experience and understand the science behind it all. I have some wood chisels (just Stanley’s) and a Tormek. Sharpened my chisels to “omg I cut myself and didn’t feel it sharp”. That’s exactly what happened while trimming out a door hinge and because my chisels were always “meh” I learned a wrong technique and that’s what led to the cut and the bleeding. 🩸 Wasn’t a “need stitches” cut but I was totally blown away about 1. Sharp tools make things much easier. 2. Body parts have no business being in any way of any sharp edge. 😂. 3. Truly Sharp ends of tools should have some protection when stored and/or when you grab them you don’t cut yourself just doing that.
We‘ve got a ceramic sharpening rod. Are they doing something different? It used to be white but is now grey allover, so there’s definitely an effect on the blades, but that’s about all I know. We‘ve never sharpened our knives before. Just use them as bought, and put in the dishwasher to clean. Then the occasional rod treatment, and they cut more easily after that. 🤷♀️
A friend wanted me to sharpen his kitchen knife. He decided it was time to wash and dry it. The towell was folded in a way that gave 4 layers when he cut through all 4 and into his hand and didn't feel a thing. The next time I sharpened one, he used it to cut open a bag of chips and cut the tip of his finger off. I told him that I'm never sharpening a knife for him again and "don't ever touch any of mine!"@@johnkruton9708
@@ArDeeMee Yes, ceramic or diamond (I have both) are actually abrasive and sharpen by removing material the same way as a sharpening stone does. They're just in stick or rod shape instead of a flat stone. Ceramic is usually a very fine grit abrasive, rather than course.
After watching this video 3 times to make sure I have a complete grasp on your suppositions, tests, and results, I'd like to weigh in. First I wanted to say great video and excellent testing. Being able to see the results under the microscope was fascinating. I am a professional chef and spend a lot of time both using and maintaining knives, even going so far as to offer my sharpening services to my coworkers and friends in the restaurant industry. I use both whetstones as well as a belt grinder to accomplish my sharpening. I have also sworn by using a honing rod (never called it a sharpening rod as I knew it was non abrasive unless ceramic or coated in abrasive) for years, when knives seem to lose their sharpness after much use. Your video has made me question whether or not I should continue using a honing rod and I'd like to suppose some things that maybe you could test in future videos. 1. I use a honing rod multiple times a day depending on the volume of knife work I am doing. There are days I am making literally thousands of cuts before using a honing rod or whetstone to touch up an edge. Is it possible that your tests against the simulated cutting board were not accurately representing wear and tear on a real kitchen knife? I know this could have little bearing on the results, but am interested to see what a chef's knife apex looks like after a few hours of cutting, not just a few minutes. I'd be happy to send you two of my knives, one that was just sharpened and one that was used for an entire day of knife work, to see the edge under your microscope. 2. It is possible to have an edge that is "too" sharp for the task. Earlier in my days of sharpening I had experiences where I would attempt to cut a tomato or a lime with a mirror polished edge and would struggle, but would have no problem shaving my arm, or push cutting paper. I've since left my apex a little rough for knives that are used for general purposes and not cutting meat or fish. A mirror edge is great for cutting sashimi, not so great for making lime wedges. Is it possible that the rough apex keeps the knife sharp enough for the utility of your average kitchen without needing any further polishing? 3. Could you perform real tests using real ingredients to test the practical uses of each edge? I'd be interested to see how that rolled edge performed on a lime before and after the honing rod. Finally, I'd like to thank you for recommending a diamond plate for quick sharpening, I think I'll invest in one to keep in my knife roll and leave the honing steel at home until I've done some more research. I'm willing to let go of the honing steel, but not until I've vetted every last reason why it might be a waste of my time. Looking forward to more of your videos!
I think the reason a polished blade doesn't work well on limes is not that it's "too sharp", but rather that it is too smooth on the flanks. What happens is that the apex cuts into the skin alright, but the skin is too inflexible to allow the rest of the blade to sink in deeper, so the edge then doesn't actually do anything more then, you're just sliding along the sides of the wedge created by the initial cut. It's basically the same reason as why you can't cut wood even with an arbitrarily sharp knife. Blades that are, on paper, worse avoid this problem: the burrs and grinding marks on the sides both pull the blade down on a push stroke, and also act like microscopic sawteeth that move some material out of the way. It would be interesting whether the same effect can be achieved by sliding a proper sharp knife a couple of times over medium-grit sandpaper at a very acute angle, and thus get the best of both worls. An alternative is of course to use actual serrated knives for such tasks.
I immediately checked the comments for someone saying what you said :) One would never encounter a 'rolled edge' as was created (with much effort). Therefore the test with the honing rod was not realistic, and was certain to fail. The kitchen honing rod is used in the kitchen, for quickly reviving a sharp edge. In this respect, it is a very useful tool.
Bugger, should have read the comments before I posted, lol. A mirror edge sticks due to surface tension, so yes, a knife can be too sharp IMHO. Certainly for smashing through veggies!
When I use the steel with my kitchen knives. I push the blade, not dragging the blade. When I do this I can shave with the knife that I couldn't shave with prior to using the steel rod.
As do I. I have Asian associates from Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and China that place the end of the rod on a towel on the counter with the handle up and push the blade down the rod. I have done it this way for years, and my knives stay sharp for years before sharpening. I use Kai Shun - Sora knives.
I used to work as a fisherman and i use to do it the same way and it worked for me. The only times it dint work was if i was cuting in steel angels or other steel items. But i have to say it was working best on my Victorinox knives and not so god on the more heavy working knives.
I have been a professional fisherman for over 40 years & have found the best way to sharpen the "cheap" stainless knives that i use, As they go into the sea with somewhat regularity. Is to use a circular sharpening motion not back and forth. I have to then use a steel to get it to cut right after about gutting 60 fish. I can use the steel at least 5-10 times before I need to sharpen it on the stone. If I don't use the steel & resharpen it takes much longer & does not last any longer than the steel. The way I use the steel is always pulling the blade forwards. If I do it backwards it is not as good. I have no idea what the actual edge looks like as my eyes are not that good. But I gut over 60,000 fish a year so I can tell you the way I do it works for gutting fish! I don't bother splitting hairs with my knife as no one wants to buy them, so not sure if my sharpening method is good for that. Great video though & good close up pics.
Have you actually tried sharpening properly and removing the burr though? I'm guessing never since you mention not being able to see the blade which does require magnification for most people. Just because it works doesn't mean it's working as well as it could. I have worked in a lot of industries where "we've always done it this way" is the rule but quite often if I can get them to listen I can radically improve their system (it's what I do, solve problems). As with anything I don't know if it would be better in this specific situation which is why if I worked in fishery I would test my theories before suggesting anything.
@@_droid Because I am gutting around 300 fish a day & they all have shell in their gut, the blade goes dull after around 100 fish. It takes me around 25 mins to do that many. if I had to spend 15 min sharpening the blade each time it would add extra hrs to my day. Maybe if it was a high carbon blade it would last better. but the salt wrecks them if you have a few days off.
@@calthorp Personally I would test how long the edges lasts normally versus removing the burr (takes less than 2 min BTW). If there is no difference or the couple extra minutes sharping is longer than the gain in edge life then obviously it's not worth it. I'm a scientist though and I would normally do this for other people before even suggesting it. In the real world it doesn't really matter as long as you accomplish what you want.
I have used a butcher steel a lot for work purposes in the past. It was always with the edge leading basically trying to slice a thin piece of the steel off.
@@juho1227 Exactly, can't beleive this clown is doing it wrong (no doubt his Amazon affiliation income will be better if he can PROVE these rods are no good)
I used to cook professionally, slicing and dicing 10-12 hours per day. I would use a steel with 10 light passes about 4 times during the day. When the steel failed to bring the edge back that's when I took the knife to the stone; about once a month +/- for the 8". A mechanic doesn't use a crescent wrench for every size bolt. I had an 8" F. Dick chiefs knife (from C school) for most stuff, a 12" Gerber wide thin blade for veggies and a heavy 12" Hoffritz for, well heavy cutting like a light cleaver (or a hammer). Three knives from 3 different manufactures and never had any problems keeping a sharp edge on any of them. Of course your millage may vary. (btw, use the knife like a saw, blade length strokes and let the weight of the knife and smooth movement cut through the product. Most people push the knife straight down and crush through the product thinking that's cutting.)
Must admit, I prefer when you draw. Love the zoom details, but it's much easier to see/understand when you draw it, like you did. Thank you for making this, been wandering about honing steels for such a long time. And like your other videos, you show and answer questions in a definitive way, which is NOWHERE else on the internet! Thank you!
I was thinking about this during the video. I think the micro shots are hard to see because of the reflection and lack of context. I think a micro video would be ideal, but flipping between a few shots that have been nudged slightly might be enough.
I worked as a butcher in a meat packing plant for about 5 years, there were 200 workers on the production floor, so we had a knife room where they would use power knife grinders, we would always get our knives back with pretty big burr so you'd use that steel to break the burr at the true apex then we'd use a smooth steel to straighten and a ceramic for a fine edge
Smooth/polished steels for the win! Butchers know where it's at! This video really doesn't go into why those casual honing steels are so awful: it's because people keep buying those cheap-ass ribbed ones that tear up your edges. Polished steels are fantastic.
Agree. Worked on a kill floor. My brother was a ham boner. Number of cousins worked boning, hitching ribs, etc. Power sharpening or even stone honing always needed worked to get truly sharp. Hence we all got 10 minutes per day knife buffing pay. :D
Butchers word is gospel. Learned from machine shop foreman. Smooth rod to cycle burr decreases grain structure tighter and tighter. strain hardening it until maximum hardness achieved and burr breaks off. Very small amount of strain hardened metal remains on blade and can be lightly sharpened with solid real ceramic rod. A dozen alternating light strops on my denim, cotton bib or doubled terry cloth on counter and we surgical. Author needs to sharpen a paper clip; then flex a paper clip till it brittle breaks and sharpen the brittle break face. Yup, think of knife blade as a stacked row of broken paper clips. If you dont work knife edge w smooth hone, then you are only sharpening soft metal and haven’t reached even a fraction of blades capability in creating a sharper and significantly more durable edge.
thanks. i had been using a steel for many years until i purchased a diamond sharpening tool. never went back, but thanks for educating me on the HOW and the WHY the steel performed so poorly. i learned something new today!! -best
I think this tool needs to be contextualized. While you're working you want to spend your time cooking, not sharpening knives. This tool lets you extend the time between sharpenings. It doesn't actually make the knife's sharpness better, but "less bad", until you feel it's time to sharpen it again.
@@alextp8821with the harder steels, you also need the right technique to not damage the more fragile edges, though I suppose what would chip a more brittle steel would still dull the cheap stuff
As a professional knife sharpener I appreciate how you have approached this video and explanation of how a steel works and better alternatives. As a professional chef who can do more work with a knife in one day than a home cook will do in a year I would say that a good steel still has it's place to maintain an edge quickly and efficiently. They never have and never will sharpen a dull knife but they do keep a good edge "clean". A good test of whatever technique to maintain an edge would be to finely dice 20kg's of onions or do a few kg's of carrot julienne. Traditional European chef's knives tend not to have a fine bevel, 20 plus degrees, it's only the fairly recent uptake of Asian style knives where the bevel becomes finer and they are designed and used differently. It's a bit of a rabbit hole but boils down to the correct tool for the work required and the correct maintenance and use of the tool. Thank you for the thought provoking vid, all the best.
agreed, I'm no chef but I do use a knife a lot in a kitchen, and these steels work wonders when used correctly. I don't know how anyone ever got the idea that they sharpen knives. This video saying that steels are obsolete just goes to show how even a person with experience can be ignorant in some areas. I think chefs use knives more than anyone else on the planet, and they'll know best about this subject
@@ruki1r I think the main cause of bending and messing up the edge comes from hitting the cutting board, not cutting the vegetables. And its a death from a thousand cuts so to speak ^^
@@GA1313E yes and bone probably but as he demonstrated as well that a sharper blade can withstand the cutting board up to 500x compared to a honed only knife
Dude- that was the best demonstration of the mechanics and theory of edge, burr, and honing steel I’ve ever seen. Well done…. And thank you very much for this video!!
But he mislead you. He is using the wrong stick, the wrong way, for the wrong purpose. He is as much of a professional knife sharpener as I am a professional shitter, had I put my dump under a microscope. Its like mythbusters busting made up bullshit, so they can make a video about it. Except this guy doesnt even know how and for what o use a sharpening stick.
My mate is a chef. He says that rods are great for a fast touch-up while working in a hectic kitchen, because proper sharpening takes time he just doesn't have. His knives are beautiful and next level sharp. "I can only work as fast as my knives let me, and a sharp knife is a fast knife," he told me. He absolutely cherishes them because they're a joy to use, they keep a scalpel like edge, and they pay his bills.
I sharpened my knife properly for the first time today and now I'm watching this video while making very thin slices of a piece of paper with the knife. It's very enjoyable. Thanks for your tips!
Yup, love this channel…….finally the science to backup what I’ve been doing for years which is NEVER use a honing rod. I tried using one once years ago after I stone sharpened and stropped a kitchen knife, it actually made the knife duller. Just to be sure I repeated the sharpening a few more times after honing and got the same result. Honing took the shaving sharp edge away so I just called it BS and carried on doing what worked for me. Thank you for this!
Thank you so much for this video. Honing rods have always been a mystery to me. nobody in my kitchen could ever agree about what they actually did, and yet everyone but me had one and loved doing the speedy gonzalez with it. It's great to finally have the nerd clarification on this topic
What always gets me is that even _if_ it did anything, such speedy "sharpening" would simply serve to ruin the edge anyway. Speedy means sloppy, and sloppy means you're going to fuck up your alignment. You'd never hit a sharpening stone or a strop at light speed, but so many cooks seem to think slapping their knife against a metal rod that fast will magically fix their edge.
@@jamesruth100 You don't understand. They've done it so many times and they have such an immense amount of experience that they can do it lightning fast without any mistakes. Well, that's what they want you to think anyway.
Former Butcher here, my two cents: the KEY is to use the honing steel fairly often, every 10-20 cuts, to PREVENT the edge from rolling too much: LIGHT pressure, LEAD with the edge, do the whole blade from heel to tip in a single arcing stroke. When the edge bent excessively to one side, it was time to send the knife back to the sharpening service. At that point there was nothing we could do to fix it with a honing steel. It is probably the most difficult tool to master in a kitchen or butcher's shop, it take A LOT of practice to use it properly and only about 5% of the people I ever met could actually put it to good use, everyone else just messed up the blade. But it does have a purpose.
I'm a chef and I agree with you, for nearly 40 years I've been using steels to sharpen my knives and I still use the same knives I started out with, I've got through a few steels though! There's a big difference between someone with little knife experience making a UA-cam video and a proper professional experienced knife user. There's a reason we use steels and I'd say it's because when done properly it's fast, efficient, and doesn't damage or cause excessive wear to the blade. You need to use it properly and regularly though and I think it's something that comes with experience and not something you can do after a couple of weeks of messing around.
70 yr old son of a butcher. My old man didn't teach me much, (except what NOT to do to be a good father), but he taught me at about 12-13 how to sharpen, use & maintain knives. He was older when I was born & learned butchery in the late '20's, (1920's!), in NYC. He taught me how to create a proper edge on a blade & taught me EXACTLY what you explained re: the purpose & use of a steel. This guy is using diamond, which I use, now, & love. Diamond is akin to cheating, compared to natural stone; the surface is nearly perfectly identical, unlike a stone & it's cutting ability reduces passes by 60-70%, in my experience. When I got some diamonds, I sharpened everything w/ an edge I owned: knives, scissors, lawn mower, (I keep a knive-like edge on it... it works well), hoes, trimmers, pruners... you name it. I brought all if them to dangerous sharp in about the same time it took me to do 2-3 of them. There's things poster doesn't understand about what he's 'busting'; too old & don't have the time to waste explaining it all to him. One other thing, I, too, have amazing magnification capabilities & most people can for less than 10 bucks... buy a moderately good jeweler's loupe. I have one I use regularly, several actually, & another that's about 2x's the mag; it's good for looking at intricate stuff like end mills, taps & such, but overkill for a straight edge. A last tip I discovered/then stole from the machining world. You know how machinists 'blue' things w/ die; blue Sharpies have replaced Dykem for most purposes. I use a blue Sharpie on an edge before I sharpen it, as a visual guide for contact angulation; it helps, even 70 yr old hands that have sharpened for 50+ yrs. GeoD
Caveman line cook here. I’ve always lead with the edge with great results. I guess I’ll never start using my steel backwards, because it will ruin my edge.
@@jeffreybrown4015 There was a time in this country, pre-carbide era, when sharpening experts & shops were common. In my teens & 20's, all carpenters had 2 racks of saw blades, alternately traded w/ 'The Sharpening Guy'. In some communities, these guys did knives for slaughter houses & grocery chains; the butchers did the maintenance, but a 'new grind' wasn't done in house. Thet also did work for the average consumer. Put it all together & a man could feed his family. With the advent of carbide, the handwriting was on the wall, within a decade, a 'Sharpening Guy' was nowhere to be found. Gets me to wondering about blade users; suspect a knife gets chucked & replaced, now, instead of re-ground & re-birthed. We do live in a throw away world. I inherited my dad's knives; used them for years, they'd lived & worked a long life. They're in an attic box, somewhere, the handles got too beat for anything but a bachelor's household. My main blades are ceramic, w/ an eclectic mix of oddball fav's.
I actually find these rods helpful when used in the right application. I use mine for very light "tune ups" in between proper sharpening - not repairing edges or anything just light maintenance. I usually sharpen my kitchen knives about once a year and then use the rod after every 2nd or 3rd use. This has worked very well for me and my knives are always razor sharp, but maybe it's a placebo effect or maybe it's only working because my knives are starting off properly sharpened. Great video in any case.
Exactly, they work well to tune up a properly sharpened edge that has been slightly dulled ( rounded ). Especially on softer steel. I'm a professional carpenter / woodworker and have been sharpening everything from axes to razors for 50 years, and I think a lot of these guys kind of get lost in the weeds and overthink things.
And after sharpening with coarser India or Arkansas stones the steel would smooth and/or bend over the tops of the deep scratches and give the edge a smoother cutting “feel” for sure, and some might call that sharper than before. I always heard that the metal edge gets pushed and smeared around. I think some pro chef should come on the show and demonstrate before & after the steel use, and only after cutting real food and not just playing woodpecker with the knife (and with better quality knifes too). I respect Outdoors55’s blade making & sharpening, but don’t give a demonstration of something that you have no experience with. I think if there is something to learn about “sharpening steels” then seek out someone that makes a living with it, like chefs and butchers.
F. Dick, the German company who have made steel rods (both fluted and smooth) for 100+ years, 1) calls them sharpening steels and 2) instructs edge leading not edge trailing strokes.
@@charlesorsay2389 Yeah, from about 25 years of being in and out of various knife-centric fields, making my own, being around a lot of high volume butchers... the edge-leading use of a steel is a down & dirty way to keep the edge of softer steel stainless working blades relatively aligned, apex'd, and polished. It isn't proper sharpening, it isn't anything of the sort. But for somebody who is cutting volumes of meat all day long, yeah it'll fix imperfections from nicking bone or tough connective tissue, and extend the time between proper sharpening which is usually outsourced to a company that just uses a grinding machine. The edge leading method reduces thinning and odd burrs at the apex, especially when doing the high-speed "steeling" that these guys do, that in no way maintains any sort of consistent angle or pressure on the actual bevel.
...edge leading not edge trailing strokes... I've seen a few of his videos and I think this guy means well but I also think he's learning as he goes along while hide this fact. I have a much longer post above on this but, in a nutshell, I had a job in a chicken processing plant in 1977. I had an accident and was put on light, (knife sharpening), duty for 6 weeks. I learned a lot including how to use a steel the proper way that you mentioned above. He's trying to use a steel like a razor strop. I'll give him credit for one thing though. In my opinion, rough steels are trash, unless of course, you are trying to sharpen a hacksaw.
Thank you for the work you put into this. It is an interesting topic. I personally use a honing rod after every use of my kitchen knives, and have done so for 20+ years. The last 5 years I have ventured into sharpening and a general knife interest. I do not have a microscope to film my burrs, so I use my fingers to feel it. I suck at free hand sharpening (and have almost destroyed quality knives that way), so I use a guided system, the Work Sharp Precision adjust. It seems to do a better job than factory sharpness, and way better than any of my free hand sharpening attempts. The only free hand sharpening action I do on occasion is free hand stropping. Back to the honing rod. Both before and after I started to properly sharpen my knives, I find it extends the time between sharpenings, and when other family members (who do not hone or sharpen) have used some knives for an extended period, I can notice they are duller, and then the honing helps. Maybe I have some micro burr. Maybe I roll the edges differently from yours under use. I don’t know, but I know it improves the cutting and slicing ability of the knife. And the last point: I am obviously honing wrong. I use the honing rod by moving the knife with the edge first. Not in an edge trailing motion, like when stropping, but like I am sharpening. Maybe I create a new micro burr? I use a little pressure, and move at medium speed, being in control and covering the entire length of the blade. I alternate sides, and usually make up to 20 passes in total. I could use a stone or a strap, but they are not as readily available (stones need a stable base and the strop use compounds, etc). I do not think you mention stropping as an improved alternative to honing, either, but I may not have watched closely enough. Anyway, I like the video, and would suggest that you try to research what the kitchen knives of people with less sharpening skills than you look like when they consider them sharp, and what their actual use of the knife does to the edge, because I think both the copper pipe roll and the hammering against wood is not proven to be a proper simulation of actual use.
Yeah I never bought the "straightens the rolled edge" because a hone is essentially a file with the teeth cut longitudinal. The steel is glass hard so your stainless kitchen knife is getting cut like butter. I typically use the hone edge-forward first to literally knock off the burr, then backward to burnish the edge. My brother uses a "sharpener" from the hardware section, and all of his knives are "micro-serrated"
Well that explains why I have always felt like the steels that come with knife sets were not doing anything. The only one I have ever had that actually made the knife feel sharper was my grandfather's and it has EZE Lap diamond hone molded in the handle. An abrasive one just like you said.
In my experience, both whetstones and steels have their place. Whetstones cut the bevel and refine it. Steels “get you by” for a while before needing to return to the stones. On steels, I use edge leading passes with med/light pressure. Start out flatter than the bevel and slowly increase your angle until you start to feel it slightly begin to bite……hold that angle. Also it’s important to move the blade in both axis across the steel.
I was a professional knife sharpener in a fish plant for about 30 to 40 filleters. (unfortunately 50% of them had no idea what "sharp" meant) One filleter in particular wanted his knife "sharp enough to shave with". I decided to give him exactly what he asked for and spent about 3 seconds using my medium steel. I told him to shave his arm hairs and he was extremely impressed until he had to "saw" through his fillet. After complaining that it was the dullest knife he ever used, I spent another minute with my smooth steel. He tried shaving and complained that it wouldn't, but with 2 fingers and his thumb holding the knife, glided through the fillet with ease, commenting that it was the "sharpest" he ever used. He never asked for me to make his knives "razor sharp" again.
@@bwellman1953 New to sharpening here, could you explain why the one that cuts hair won't cut a fillet, but the one that won't cut hair will cut a fillet?
@mattjohnson9727 I'm not sure that I can. First off, "they" were both the same knife.When "shavable", it did in fact fillet a fish, but it wasn't easy. I can say that a "razor sharp" knife is the beginning of a really sharp knife, but it still needs that jagged edge smoothed. After the microscopic barbs are removed, I have said in the past (maybe mistakenly) that it's too smooth to "grab" the hair. I was/am 100% self taught, except for the part about using steels (50%).
@@mattjohnson9727 I also regularly hone straight razors. Typically they have 16-17 degree bevels. Those bevels are extremely smooth and refined to the point where they will cut a single hair when brought to the edge effortlessly. I would guess the knifes steel couldn’t take the acute bevel and it developed a burr. The burr would cut hair, but broke off on the fish. Even if it did take a nice bevel, very acute bevels are easily destroyed.
@@mattjohnson9727 he mentioned in the video, burrs can be sharp enough to cut hair but they break off easily especially when you fillet through mussel fiber, good fillet knife or any knife need the burr removed and use the apex to cut
I love your testing process and actual close up pics and video. Very clear and proves it to a point it can't be argued. I wish more content creators brought it to this level.
I've been a knife enthusiasts for years. I hand sharpen all my knives. All I know is, when I'm cutting things in the kitchen, and my knife loses its "bite" a few light "edge forward" passes on my steele brings the edge right back.
Fwiw. The knife was sharpened edge forward on the diamond stone at the end of video but the honing rod was always ran edge back so we didn’t really get an equal comparison.
@@heni63 it kind of chips the apex and creates some burr as well, only giving the impression it gets sharper. But a proper apex is in fact much much sharper (and will resist better too).
OMG! Your videos about knife sharpening is a life changer for me! It's one of those things that is so simple to implement yet makes life so much better. Thank you!
Chat got just rips the first thing a person says once and spits it at you like an essay, has nothing to do with right or wrong in its sender to your question, the steel rod he was showing is just for example too, watch the full video. Rods just mangle your edge unless your knife was in trash’s condition to begin with. You can sharpen on a brick better then those steels and anyone who fights me on that has never used the brick
This is interesting. I do use a steel in the kitchen, but I use it in an opposite motion, as if shaving metal off the steel. I have always considered the steel to be a specialized file. It stretches out the time between sitting down and doing a full sharpening - I use a synthetic double-sided oil stone for that. I do know that over time, use causes the apex to turn to where you can detect the turn with a finger nail. I use the steel to remove the turned bit. I always imagined, since I was taught to use the steel opposite to what you show, that the steel _removes_ the rolled bit, essentially filing it away. After a "several" steelings the edge may get fussy about slicing ripe tomatoes and fail to restore to a fully useful edge. It is then that I get out the stones.
I was taught by a very good butcher not to draw the knife towards me but to push the knife away, as if I wanted to shave a very thin layer of steel from the rod. It works.
@@RayCotta-d1g The "away" rule is to protect you from yourself. Pulling the knife toward the hilt _might,_ under severely adverse circumstances, lead to an accidental cut, and with a sharp knife, fingers on the floor. The position of the edge relative to the steel surface and the angle is the same in either direction. I prefer the way I was taught mainly because it's more comfortable to me. I've worked in a kitchen where we were supposed to hold the steel vertically in a dagger hold, with the tip on a counter or block. The knife was held against the steel and "cut" downward like we were trying to remove shavings from the steel. Heaven help you if the chef saw you doing it any other way.
Went into this one fearing my 1200 ceramic rod would have to go. Glad to see I haven't been imagining things. One of the challenges I'm having is figuring out if leading or trailing pulls are better. I think this kind of answered that one, too. I should be using light pulls forward to polish the apex ever so slightly.
with abrasives, direction doesn't matter, as he already showed in another (old) video ... trailing may be EASIER to go light and thus remove any burrs, tho. but under the microscope, the result should be the same (assuming the same force is applied and there's no edge rolling, that is)
I actually like Ceramic Hone Rods alot! They work the exact way for people who are used to old Steels, and they often fit into the Knife block many people have!
Very well explained ! I'll have to re watch to absorb everything thoroughly, but not on account of bad presentation...i just process slowly. I'll absolutely be referring this video to several friends immediately !
I mostly use a completely smooth polishing steel with oval cross section. It 100% works and with 5-10 light pressure passes before use it keeps my knived sharp. You can even see the difference on the edge under bright light.
Yes they work, just not how he thinks they do. A hone is not supposed to unroll an edge, they are to algin/straighten a wavy edge. He never checked how straight an edge is here, so he ignored the whole purpose of a hone by focusing on unrolling an edge, which is not the purpose of a hone.
@@acmhfmggru Yeah I usually like his content, but I'd say he missed the mark too. Maybe if he did some slicing with large chef's knives he'd understand the purpose of a hone.
Your science is correct, but here are some additional points. I never use a steel "trailing". Rather, I use it by "cutting" the steel, same as when I sharpen. This is how it is intended to be used. In my way of thinking a "honing rod" is one with an abrasive coating (diamond or ceramic) that does indeed remove metal and thus sharpen. To "sharpen" a cabinet scraper (woodworking) a burnishing rod is used to create the rolled edge that does the work. A steel is effectively a burnishing rod. If you are working in a kitchen and your knife is dulling to the point it interferes with effective cutting it is a fact that a few strokes on a steel will bring the edge back to life, ask any butcher. So you are correct that steeling is not sharpening and it is not, in the end, good for the knife. The best way isn't always the practical option when one leaves the "lab" and enters the kitchen.
Commercial guy's do it all day everyday. I personally use a oval dexter diamond steel for kitchen knives. Once a year or so I use stones. I'm not a pro. I always sharpen everything edge taking a cut out of the stones. Pioneers used river stones seemed to work for them.
Professional and experienced chef of almost 3 decades here. I have a fair level of expertise with knife sharpening. Steel honing rods do not straighten a rolled edge, they do “comb” the burr-less metal edge so all metal fibers lay in the same direction. It removes metal shavings (the grey dust) as most are magnetic. The speed of the honing is irrelevant if you have the right angle. You can do it fast if you know what you’re doing. One step that helps is “stropping” as it uses the sharpening stone to break off random burrs before honing.
I am one of those few people who still use a scythe. My dad used to sharpen it once a year on a grinding wheel, and then we used a ceramic rod a whole lot while out in the field, same technique as this rod. Like once every 5 min I was taught. I would love a video on sharpening scythes - it will be up to me now...
All I know is that a quick touch up with a steel, opposite direction to the way you demonstrated, restores the edge on my kitchen knives. How it’s working, I don’t care. I just know it works, fast and easy.
Thanks for revealing this at magnification. I'd heard arguments one way or another for many years, but visibly seeing the effects of a honing steel, contrasted against a diamond stone, solidifies my understanding of the concept.
the magnification didn't prove much except that he doesn't know how to use a steel. I never trail the blade using a steel, and my knives are sharp enough to slice tomato skins without using any pressure. I've been doing this for about 25 years. I don't even own a sharpening stone. I don't need one. I've never tried cutting paper or shaving with my knives either, because I have special tools for that.
Very interesting video, and BTW your videos are much slicker these days! It also appears that the steels create a very small burr which will then be aligned with the apex, hence a very short lasting boost to cutting performance. It would be interesting to see a properly sharpened & deburred edge after a few dozen goes on the steel. I reckon that it would produce a very small burr. Great job!
I thought the same. I believe « honing » steel rods are actually (unknowingly to most) adding a temporary burr (a rather straight, not rolled over or bent one). And that people find the knife becomes sharper because actually the burr, being irregular, acts as a sort of serrated edge. But obviously this won’t last long, as the burr is very fragile and gets removed by pieces into whatever you are cutting, aka food itself as well as the cutting boards, plates, dishes,… so you soon need another few passes on the rod to actually recreate the burr. It would be very interesting, as a sequel to this very interesting video, to try cutting (very thin tomato slices, then a paper sheet) with : 1/ a not-so-sharp blade that has had a few light honing rod passes, 2/ then, the exact same blade with the burr removed just by honing on some cardboard plate (which is a famous ultra-cheap and supposedly rather efficient way of removing a burr) 3/ the same knife after a proper fine sharpening and burr removal. My guess : on tomato, 1 and 3 would be great and 2 would suck. On a paper sheet, 1 would be irregular cut, 2 would be just dull, and only 3 would make clean, crisp, easy cuts. I would happily bet 1€ on this
Your analysis is Great! I've had some very (very) limited success, always edge first, with a steel maintaining an 'ok' blade at the 'maybe ok' stage, but by now I agree with you, and I've retired all of my lined and smooth steels in favor of diamond stones or real stones. (Maybe some of the confusion is with honing the "feather" on razor edges.) Very nice video showing why.
Hello, I want to buy the $20 S SATC Diamond Sharpening Stone, but it is out of stock. There are other options, but they look fake or really low quality. Can you please recommend another one and add a link so I can buy it. Thank you so much in advance. I truly enjoy your videos.
So, my grandfather worked in meat packing and got more money for going in early and sharpening all the knives before shift. He did use a steel, but nothing like they put in these knife blocks. He made a steel from a round file that he had completely smoothed to a point. The completely smooth tool grade steel will polish an already sharpened edge like a fine micron strop does. You can see it under a microscope. These ridged steels are worthless and destroy an edge, but smooth tool steel does "sharpen" steel until you need to refine the apex again.
Considering that we have, on occasion, had competitions in our restaurant kitchen to sharpen the back of a butter knife by using these steels I can 100% confirm that the steel does sharpen a knife. I also worked alongside a butcher who had to replace a couple of his knives every 18 months or so as he wore out his knives . . . on a steel. At 7:36 you mention there's a lack of understanding. Yes you're right, you don't understand them. Arguing over terminology does not negate the fact that a professional butcher does not use a whetstone yet has to replace a knife every year and a half, and we have on occasion turned a butter knife spine into a shaving implement, means it does, indeed, sharpen.
I thought the idea was to use it like a strop. The whole point is that it isn't abrasive, it straightens the microscopic deformations, not a huge roll like that.
None of the honing techniques shown here on the sharpening steel rod is as per the recommendation on the package my rod came in. Could this be the reason it's not working? I am happy with the results I am getting with my use of the honing steel rod.
I'm a butcher, i use these types of rods everyday. We have two models one with those striations and the other is basically smooth. The one with the striations I use only after using the stone, and the smooth one i will use a lot more, after cutting a lot of meat and after using the one with striations. The smooth one is good for maintenance of the edge, I can do heavy use of my knife without needing to taki it to stone for months
Your description is the closest in this thread to how I use a steel which I learned from a professional butcher friend decades ago. Edge leading strokes on a knife that has dulled. I can use my smooth steel to keep an edge cutting for a long time before having to remove steel and actually sharpen. I don't want to sound like the lone voice disagreeing with the prevailing opinion, but I suspect most people are using the steel incorrectly or the wrong steel for what they want, because my efforts always result in a much sharper knife very quickly. That being said I have used several different types of steels and they ALL perform differently. My smooth steel does it best over everything including ridged, ceramic and diamond steels which remove too much steel when using in the above described manner. I suspect that the smooth steel mimics a strop except it's easier and quicker.
@d1grizz smooth ones are great to keep a sharp knife. They will work fine if the blade has an edge, smooth rods will only fail if the blade is already dull. But people like to spend money on fancy rods that will only ruin their blades
Question. Why did you use edge leading strokes on the diamond stone to compare with the edge trailing strokes on the honing steel? Regardless, great video. Plus, your highly magnified stills are truly enlightening. Good work.
The honing steel straightens the edge which is bent to the side. Edge trailing strokes bend back to the original position by bending in the reverse direction. Different stones may or may not allow you to use edge leading strokes. The edge leading stroke will create less of a bur on a stone than an edge trailing stroke. If you have a coarse metal file and a piece of mild steel you can see the difference. A lawnmower blade or any thicker metal will work for this. Try to make an edge going in both directions. The bur will be visible without a magnifying lense.
BROOOOOOOOOOOOOO , YOU OPENED MY EYES . I've been wrong sooo long , about burr removal , I used to only straigten it into apex and call it a day and thoughts tahts sharpening . I also used only aluminium oxide whetstones , you just changed my point of view of everything bro. Love you.
Thank you man. Very helpful video. I was going this for a years and my knives were not sharp. Few years ago I found stone sharpening. Since then I am very happy. Yes, it takes some time to learn and develop your skills, but it worth it.
So why can I cut tomatoes thinner and easier after using my knife steel? I have been using one for over 50 years now and don't use it like you were showing. I don't drag the knife, but run it over the steel like I am cutting a strip of wood. Every test I have used indicates the knife is sharpener after using the steel than before I used the steel. Why is my results different from yours?
I also wish he had performed your way of sharpening as a test. This video felt like he was performing a david copperfield trick to highlight a belief he had without actually proving it properly. He did convince me that a diamond block is better and that gordon ramsay is a poser but that I kind of already knew. Like who would be surprised diamond sharpens the best right? In this test he purposefully sharpened the knife edge forward on the diamond block and edge backwards on the steel rod every time to prove it didn't work as well. He says he tried every way possible. Why not show it? Who knows.
Thank you for another great video. I want to add a couple things. Everyone in the world who uses these, moves in the opposite direction. It seems obvious to me that such a movement could not possibly straighten a roll, but people will steadfastly believe it anyway. I find the vast majority of unsharpening that happens to kitchen knives is just regular dulling, not rolling. I think to roll a knife you must be seriously abusing it or using a steel that is more garbage than even most $1 knives have. For a knife that is dulling, a honing rod will tear up the apex, putting micro-serrations into it. Those micro-serrations will improve the slicing ability somewhat for a short time (I think. maybe you can test it?). I think this is the benefit people are getting from using a honing steel. You can get that from using it in the direction most people use them. If you value having actually sharp knives, and have the ability to actually sharpen them, then tearing up the apex is not desirable. This is what I teach in my sharpening classes. For most people, however, they don't know how to sharpen and their knives are abysmally dull, so it probably doesn't hurt, but it's not getting them much improvement either, just wasting everyone's time and space.
This is exactly why people are perceiving A difference in sharpness after using A non abrasive hone. That is Also why they have to do it every 5 minutes and the knife has basically 0 edge Retention Because they are basically cutting on what is essentially. A fine burr or wire That rolls right over after A short amount of cutting And they see And Feel that Lip be created And that's what they're calling a Rolled edge when in reality it's just the Find wire bending over And or Pieces of the burr bending over. That is created From slamming the edge into the grooves in the hone. It's a very pointless tool it serves no True point and it's Something people think looks cool when in reality it's just further Destroying The already dull edge. However the damage that's happening is basically just creating ragged Micro serrations That are giving the illusion Of The knife cutting better.
he's just trashing it because he doesn't know how to use it. Edge LEADING is a must, and very light pressure. They act just like very fine files, and remove material and create a microbevel at the edge if done correctly.
Can you explain the use of TWO strops at 10:43 ? I haven’t seen you do that before. Apparently two different cutting compounds/grit size, but I’m dying for a longish video on the why when and how.
The first thing I notice after being a professional chef for over 20 years is that you don't use the steel correctly once. First of all, such sharpening steels are slightly magnetic at the tip and you place the blade there and then push the blade towards the handle. Secondly, in the kitchen we often use diamond-studded sharpening steels that remove material very finely. That's why it's important that every chef only sharpens his own knives and doesn't mess up the angle of his colleagues.
Professional and experienced chef of almost 3 decades here. I have a fair level of expertise with knife sharpening. Steel honing rods do not straighten a rolled edge, they do “comb” the burr-less metal edge so all metal fibers lay in the same direction. It removes metal shavings (the grey dust) as most are magnetic. The speed of the honing is irrelevant if you have the right angle. You can do it fast if you know what you’re doing. One step that helps is “stropping” as it uses the sharpening stone (or leather strap) to break off random burrs before honing. I must say I can see in the video your angles are sometimes off with the honing. It can be seen and heard.
I've worked in numerous kitchens over many years, and I can 100% confirm that they do what they're supposed to. No matter how well-sharpened the blade is, in a restaurant, that edge will wear down in a single work day, so instead of sharpening the knife every time you use it, you could realign the teeth, which is significantly faster, convenient, and easier to clean, when you have to prepare 7 different meals in 30 minutes It's also a cheap alternative when a company has 7000+ knives and locations across the country
I'm halfway through the video so far. I will continue to watch the whole video, but I have some thoughts and questions to share first: 1. How come you did not roll the sharpened edge in a way that it would naturally be rolled? People that talk about the theoretical rolled edge are doing so in the context of cutting food on a cutting board (vigorous chopping of vegetables is thought to contribute mightily to a rolled edge). 2. While initial reverse strokes are often used to make sure that an edge is "unrolled", most respected knife manufacturers recommend finishing the honing with forward strokes. This is thought to align the edge. 3. Much like with sharpening, honing is often done with progressively lighter strokes as you come to the end of your progression. 4. Honing is for high quality steel that is rated below 61 or so HRC. If the steel is of poor quality, it will not respond very well and if the steel is too hard, it will not respond very well. 5. After sharpening my Victorinox I have been able to maintain a hair shaving edge for over a year; maintaining it only with a honing rod. I've done this multiple times over the years.
haha, the princess bride part slayed me, that was so perfect lol. I have never used a "honing steel" before, now I'm glad I never wasted the money on it.
I am really happy to find your channel. After spending the several hours on your channel I still find good tips to improve my sharpening skills. Keep up the good work!
Why do you use trailing strokes on the rod but reverse it when demonstrating on the stone? I'd have thought that unrolling an edge requires pulling the knife-edge backwards along the surface?
Not sure if it makes a difference, but when I was in culinary school 15 years ago, we were taught to place the honing rod point down onto a table, and draw the knife downwards from the hilt to the tip of the rod with the knife edge facing the table. So essentially the knife would face the opposite direction to how you draw it across the rod. I feel it might make a marked difference in result, but im just assuming here.
For anyone with ears to listen, these videos on sharpening have been stellar. They are well reasoned and backed up with some ass kicking videogrpahy. Nice work, man! I'm headed to the garage tk get the DMT stone.
honing rods are super effctive, the only problem being that it seems that most north america tutorials show the wrong way of using it. European tutorials show the real use, you have to go forward the edge first like on a stone, not dragging it like he did on all the vid.
Im a butcher from Mexico, my grandpa was a butcher, then my dad is a butcher, and we have a lot of knives and long knives, here we cut the meat very thin like a cardboard or even more thin, and I can assure you that you are not using right that honing rod, you are a great sharpener I have a lot of respect for you, but this time I disagree because I had seen with my own eyes the difference between using the honing rod adequately and not
I picked up a Lansky diamond steel like 10 plus years ago and love it. Everytime I've tried using a non abrasive and everytime i used it i noticed the blade was never sharper. Now I know why. That it really cool!
I have never used a trailing movement with a knife steel, but leading with the edge like you do when sharpening. These instructions are from the steel manufacturer (Victorinox), so trailing passes with my knife steel would indeed be using it wrong. When done often, before each time using a knife, it does work to push back the sharpening interval. I don't have the time nor the will to sharpen with my water stones often.
The steel is definitely better than nothing, but nothing compared to a proper wetstone sharpening. But why do you move the knife with the edge? I move it towards the edge. I was taught that by my grandfather. Won't that to some degree reduce the burr from happening?
From my experience, you are 100% right. I think the reason for this myth is the lack of availability of wetstones in the old times in combination with education in professional cooking and butchering, knife sharpening is not included there. If you look at the books, they say „use honing rod, and if knife is dull, give it to service“. My father was a professional cook, and I never saw him really sharpen a knive on a wetstone or something, I doubt that he knew about wetstones at all. But his cooking skills were amazing, btw. For me as a experienced, but not professional cook, knive sharpening is a side job, I only do it for having sharp knives, the food and the cooking is the star of the show. But I can order these amazing wetstones in one minute online, and then they ship them from Japan to Germany in short time. Our Oldies didn’t have that option. Since I learned to sharpen my knifes on wetstone, I don’t need the honing rod anymore. But, I’m still using it sometimes, I give the knife some slaps on each side, so my family knows that something really good will come out of the kitchen. I followed your advice and ordered the shaptons 1000/2000/5000 some weeks ago. I don’t do any test like cutting paper, I test my knifes on the subject (meat, vegetables and so on). They cut like laser beams, amazing. Greetings from Germany, love your videos.
You should stroke forward with a steel and you have to have the blade at high enughangle that you are actually stroking the edge not the flanks like like it appeared you were doing. Steels doing several tings depending on the knife steel alloy and its hardness. A perfectly smooth polished steel will straighten a slightly rolled edge and will also work harden it (depending on alloy). A serrated steel can actually remove metal and can thus sharpen a softer knife if it is not too dull. In general knife steels are at their best tuning up a nearly sharp edge. Darken our knife bladw with a sharpie to make sure you are actually honing the edge and not the flanks of the edge. With practice ou can feel and hear it when you are actually working the edge and not the flanks.
I had been thinking about this. At the best case, of one could push a rolled or deflected edge back to straight, it would likely cause work hardening on the base of the roll/deflection, increasing the chance of the edge chipping. Nor does it make sense to rub a sharpened edge against anything soft, since that won't do anything other than dull (ruin) the edge. Rubbing an edge against something harder is just sharpening the blade anyway. The only conclusion I could come to is that it only takes the removal of a few microns of material to return a dull edge to a sharp edge most of the time, with little effort.
Took your advice & got the sharpening you suggested in the description. My everyday, inexpensive kitchen knives cut 100% better for a quick sharpening. The good knives are sharpened with honing stones. It's just a project to break out stones, oil & cleaning towels. while cooking. I also use this on my cheap folding knives that open shipping boxes. My son also won't learn to sharpen his knives but uses your suggested sharpening steel. Now if I can get him to buy his own. Thanks for the recommendation. Became a subscriber.
The videos you make are great and to the point. Tutorials on how to sharpen knives or calling out "knife fudd lore" - you make really great content. If only you had made these videos a decade ago, when i was still learning this stuff. It would have been so much easier. All the time spent on trial and error... Thank you! Do you have any plans on making a video about sharpening a razor? Maybe natural vs. artificial stones and the fudd lore about that?
this video is misinformation, he is not using the rod correctly. you must "slice down" the rod, running the knife edge upwards like he does will only create more burr.
I think "misinformation" is too harsh a word. I admit I was a bit surprised that Outdoors55 did not test/demonstrate that use, as he is usually 100% thorough. I am betting that it would make very little difference, either way. Also note that he specified the difference between honing steel and abrasive steel. That may account for your interpretation of 'misinformation'.
FINALLY..!!!!!! someone else with a little common sense.. I've been saying this exact thing for years and people thought I was stupid, yet they were sharpening/honing 100 times to my once...
Great video, very informative! I can't say how or when or for what reason honing steels became a thing, but I can with CERTAINTY say that for hundreds, if not thousands, of years people have known how to "properly" sharpen + polish bladed instruments and knew what a bur is, as well as a rolled edge, and the difference between them. They may not have known all the technical details of what happened at a microscopic scale, but the CERTAINLY knew on a macro scale what was going on and how to "properly" do things. To seriously assert otherwise is ignorance, born most likely from the viewpoint that because we are from the future we know better than those of the past.
@@yodawgzgaming4416 one criticism or critique is not refusing the rest. I fully agree and accept that honing steels are essentially a waste of your money provided that you know what you're doing and have a "stone" on hand. Your comment is strange to say the least.
Thank you for another informative video. I assumed many of the principals you demonstrated here already. (we all know so much about assumptions) That said I started working as a machinist in the early '90s so have some understanding about metals and burrs. You just did all the work to prove me correct for never having used a "knife steel" in my life. After reading some of your comments by tradesmen with YEARS of knife work experience I would be interested to see how much of what the believe about the steels is real and how much of it is confirmation bias. I have worked with machinist that had 40 years experience that would fight and die to defend old habits that has always been but does almost nothing.
As a classically trained chef of over 20 years I can assure you that these work and you are in fact, just using it wrong. Theres no confusion minus that on your end.
@@justaboywithoutabrain3010 sure thing buddy: 1. Bad quality sharpening stick, he cheaped out. 2. Circular sharpening stick instead of oval shaped. Circular is shit. 3. Poor hardness of sharpening stick, opposite direction he cut into it like a loser, thats what he should have microscoped all those wasted 15:00 minutes. 4. It is not meant to bend edge back! 5. It is not meant to sharpen a completely dull knife. 6. Pure bad technique just like I had when I was 12 and holding it in my hand for the first time. Its visible he never used one, thus he is NOT A PROFESSIONAL KNIFE SHARPENER. 7. No proper testing of sharpness, a hair is his standard... Ridiculous. 8. The stick is meant to sharpen the knife just enough so it feels very sharp like a razor, without actually making the edge razor sharp. 9. Razor sharp edges are brittle hence not suitable for bone and meat, rather vegetable. 10. He is using the microscope wrong, or rather you only see half the picture from the side, but not the end/above. 11. Stones and machines make thin edges that run flat/straight to the top/edge. 12. Stick + much needed human error makes a circular edge that looks like a gothic window rather than a triangle. Gothic isnt as sharp, but maintains edge after bones and is easier to maintain. 13. Stones are meant to sharpen and forget for a while. 14. Stick is meant to resharpen after every few cuts/portions. 15. ... 16. Im not payed for teaching you :/ Overall: Imagine being at a pig slaughter and you have to spend 2 minutes on "diamond stone" every 15 seconds because you just cut 2 thicker bones. Meanwhile I touch it with a stick for 5 seconds even if the knife is bloody and im back in business. THIS GUY IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL KNIFE SHARPENER.
@@MapSyncSyncwrong direction, edge should be leading. It's also not made to unroll an edge, it's meant to keep the knife sharp by using it very regularly.
Been in a meat factory before and those rods definitely do something because after you use it you knife cuts like it's brand new again after it was just cutting like it's blunt
If we could ask my Dad who sharpened dozens of razors and shop tools, or my uncle the butcher, they would have taught a class that excels anyone with a microscope. They knew how to get the edge back without removal of a bunch of metal. Dad used a leather strop for a good reason. I eventually saw the benefits of using the steels a lot and the stones a lot less. As long as the apex isn't badly damaged or extremely dull, the steels save time. They just have to be used properly, which was not described clearly IMHO. The improper way was described throughput the majority of the video. Later it was touched upon with bur removal.
I agree, as a former professional butcher I can say everybody at the slaughterhouses I worked at used steels mostly 'F Dick', a German steel with a red handle, I sharpen my knifes once a day on a bmp sharpeningmachine and maintained them with the steel during the day and that worked good for me and most of the other butchers.
@@samerson6691 You processed all day long, so once a day for you was more than most hunters process in a year. You know what you're talking about. I have some antique high carbon German steel blades that Dad gave me. They are incredible. I was just wondering what a bmp sharpener is?
@@samerson6691 PS: Sorry, I went back and reread your post. I think you were talking about the knife Giesser with a 13-14 centimeter length, not a CM as in Crucible Metallurgy. 😆 I just read about those Giessers. Sounds like they hold an edge. I have a french set the Lord gave me as a gift. I forget the brand, maybe Henkel. Will have to check. My uncle was head butcher of A&P and used some antique high carbons ...Old Hickory, Green River and forgot the other brands right now.
@@preacherman9018 and that's what it's all about, you use your old knifes and honor your ancestors. Cut your meat and do a great job. I'm concerning about loosers who kill animals and dont treat them as food or living things. *uck you. 🍀
I like how you clearly demonstrate exactly how a honing steel doesn't actually work with footage and pictures and people in the comments still insist that you're wrong and reality is wrong and that honing steels work because they feel like they do.
They don't work to do things he tried to do with them -- that no one else ever used them for. They DO do what they were meant to do, but he never addresses that at all. So... guess it's a matter of choosing which reality to ignore. That of MILLIONS of people whose careers revolve around steeling their knives all day every day -- or of one UA-camr chasing red herrings and killing a strawman with a fancy lens. C'mon, dude! NO ONE rolls an edge like that. He created an unrealistic situation. And NO ONE who sharpens knives leaves the burr on. So the video is completely beside the point. It proved nothing.
I'm a professional butcher and knife steels work I use my knife 10 hours a day 5 days, mostly six days a week, I don't have the time to perfectly remove the bur from my knife. The knife steel keeps my edge working. You don't need a knife to be that Sharp to work I've done a lot of butchery with a shaving Sharpe knife and there are tons of folks who can quickly steel a knife to success it just takes years to master. I'm not trying to be rude or Hate on you for being an "amateur" because you probably know more than me but I can promise a whole industry of people don't just use them for no reason.
Same here, he simply cant see himself. Its like a kid. The rod is great for the knives i use Everyday, almost all day. Dont blame the tool if you cant use it, find something that works for you
It is amusing that you watched the video and apparently learned nothing. People who really sharpen knives know the difference. The best part is that you could have bought a very high grit diamond stone or a strop instead of the stick and be much better off. But after all, whatever floats your boat. I know we all are not the same and see different value in time and effort.
I'm 5:00 in to this video and already yelling at my monitor. Honing steels absolutely work and you rolling over the edge of a blade on a piece of copper is in no way a practical demonstration of what a kitchen knife is subjected to or what the steel does to keep the knife sharp. Nothing you're saying is technically wrong, but it's heavily disingenuous and the entire argument of this video so far is misleading. Seriously, you purposfully ruined the edge on a piece of copper, and then selected the WRONG TOOL to fix your intentional damage, and then you acted surprised. That would be like breaking a window and then showing that windex doesn't fix the situation. The point of a steel is to re-align the microscopic fingers or teeth of metal at the very edge which get slightly bent with normal use. The steel aligns these fine imperfections in the same direction between sharpenings allowing the blade to cut effectively. Imagine a saw with the teeth bent slightly to the side in random directions, versus all aligned, but at a microscopic level.
Nice video. You should try to use the straightening rod the other way :You hold the rod with your left hand and you work your knife by lightly slicing downward the rod toward the left hand.
Thank you Sir. I will brush the dust off my wet-stone in future and keep my 80 year old bone-handled carving knife and steel set - while not using the steel.
Bro why are you dragging that edge against the steel? You're doing it wrong. You did all this effort and used the hone the wrong way. You should be cutting the edge into the steel not dragging it across it. The edge goes first starting at the heel and ending at the tip. I've done produce prep cutting cases and cases and cases of lettuce, peppers and onions day after day at multiple restaurants for years. Running your knife across the steel (blade first @ 15-20° angle) between each case definitely freshens the blade up and it is extremely noticeable. You're talking a lot about rolled edges and whatnot but the reason I'm doing is to straighten out the fibers of the steel. The microscopic teeth at the edge of the blade get crisscrossed and running them against the steel will straighten them out giving you a more effective cutting edge.
BETTER alternative to a non abrasive honing rod → amzn.to/3tAEObW
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Important🛑⬇️
For further explanation on what I did test, and addressing concerns I "didnt use it correctly" See this video⬇️
ua-cam.com/video/65JzsDU_0mI/v-deo.html
I address all of the Comments concerned in this video, and the linked videos. And before leaving a comment telling me i did something wrong, please watch the WHOLE video, since most of the questions are actually answered but not comprehend by them commenter who has issues. Also If any butchers want to send me a knife they have sharpened, and one that has been "steeled" for analysis under the microscope, and sharpness testing please Email me in my about page👍 This video still stand as completely accurate. I literally show pictures of what these actually do. And thats the REAL POINT of this video⬇
Also notice there wasnt any sharpness testing in this video. This isnt about whether or not these can "technically sharpen". You can technically sharpen on a rock, that doesn’t make it a good idea, or the best method. This video is about showing what these do to Your knife edge.
Are Ceramic honing rod like the ones from Zwilling also a good alternative?
I don't know what you mean exactly, but ususally with Ceramic rods, you get what you pay for. Not all of them work the same.That means, that not all of them are the same quality, or grit. I like to have at least 2 different grits. one for my outdoors sharpening kit, which I want it to be low grit, effective and fast, and one very fine grit, for in home sharpneing, where I use it both to maintain my blades sharp, but also as a final stage, after sharpening on stones. I only strop a bit on newspaper, after the final passes on ceramic. that provides a scary sharp edge, that I can't even touch with my thumb, to see how sharp it is, because even the lightest touch, you feel it cuts into your skin!! @@timifaehrtfahrrad
I sharpen knives for living, since the early 90's. That's both my main job, and I also do extra work at home. What you say on this video,is all 100% spot on! I'm tired of trying to convincce people, who believe they sharpen their knives with these steel rods, that they actually do nothing! I advise them, to at least get a ceramic rod, yet they insist on steel rods,because as they say, I'm wrong ,their knives do get sharper".... How fool and "blind" have most people around the world become, is the real problem here.
hey, look at my comment, sorry but you're using this rod the wrong way :p push not pull!!!!!
You always can use Knife Sharpening Honing diamond stick without any issues!!
As a knife enthusiast ive had so many arguments about the usefulness of these honing rods with friends that work in the food industry. Its one of those things where tradition overrides logic, they almost all refuse to use anything else
"a proper chef should know to take care of their knife" (proceeds to destroy it)
The fact is, the knives we use in restaurant kitchens are more functional after some passes on a steel like this. So in a kitchen these are practical. Kitchens aren't about science, they are about being practical and fast. Not every knife is going to be properly sharpened, and you just need to have it cut your damn prep NOW.
If one of my prep cooks was taking 5 minutes to pass his knives on a stone all the time I would send him home.
I also don't want some 18-year-old trying to learn to use stones at all. I've seen people who are inexperienced with stones absolutely ruin knives. Even (sometimes especially) experienced chefs.
So in a high volume kitchen a steel does the job of keeping a knife cutting. And it DOES have a noticeable effect on the house knives that were sharpened by some goof with a grinding wheel who has no idea what he is doing.
I'll keep upgrading my stones and keeping my personal knives as sharp as I can, but I don't expect that of everyone else.
@@inthefade what you say doesn’t make much sense. If it’s all about having functional knives, then why not just spending the same amount of effort and time using a stone instead of a honing rod and actually getting better results?
And you’re talking about not wanting some to use sharpening stones but then you use honing rods to really destroy the apex on your knives!
I am so thankful that in mexico we had known those rods are shit for years and are starting to disappear
They disappearing so much I haven't seen one in a store for like 10 years
@@inthefadeit's more practical for all the restaurants in my area to just have like 5 knife sets for every chef then after the day someone gets paid extra to sharpen the knifes
I have a relative that was showing off his $300 Japanese kitchen knife that he was very proud of. He demonstrated how he "sharpened" it on a steel rod, then handed the knife to me. It was literally the dullest knife I've ever handled and had a very visibly damaged and rolled edge. I tried to nicely suggest that he should sharpen it on a stone, but he was in total denial that the knife wasn't already sharp and quickly took it away from me.
People don’t buy knifes for themselves, they buy them for showing them to other people
What is even more funny about that is if it's a $300 Japanese kitchen knife.
It is likely ran very Hard 63-65hrc or higher. That's steel hone He is using is probably only 56-58hrc Or if it's a high quality steel hone it may be ran upwards of 61ish. Point is in all likelihood the Knife steel is much harder then the steel hone. And that is what really tickles me when people say they are sharpening their knife on a steel hone and when you tell them its not "sharpening" because it can't cut the knife steel and they say "well what do you think the grooves are doing" tickles me to the core... I guess Most people don't understand that in order to cut something
What's doing the cutting has to be harder then what's being cut. So when you explain that they're not sharpening they just can't fathom that and will argue with you endlessly. Using a steel hone on a very hard and very fine edge Japanese knife is doing nothing other then causing chipping at the apex every time they slap the knife to the steel rod. I see that all the time (I'm a professional free hand sharpener) on knives that people send in to have sharpend. Its Mostly Shun knives I see it the worst on or in some cases (and it makes me sick) on small batch rare and very expensive customs.. in some of the steels that shun are running up around 65hrc and shuns have notoriously thin edges and the knives I get sent literally feel like a fine tooth hacksaw and it's very easy to see exactly what they did that caused it. How its so easy to tell that they was using a steel hone and that's what did the damage is because the chipping will be the worst right near the heel of the blade/edge termination because that are doing that exact crazy stuff gorden Ramsey shows off. They are slapping the knife to the steel hardest right near the heel and it just absolutely eats those thin/fine EXTREMELY HARD cutting edges up.. it does it bad enough on soft German steels that have quite thick edge geometry but on then super thin edge geometry with super hard steels it's absolutely brutal how badly it destroys them. The average person doesn't know what a Sharp knife is, most people get a 1 dollar from the dollar store and drag their finger down the side and will say that's a sharp knife or a new 10 dollar Chicago cutlery chefs knives from box stores are "RAZOR SHARP" just sharpened some knives for a guy a couple weeks ago and one of his friends was over and using one of the chef knives I sharpened for him and was trimming fat off of a beef roast and caught the side of his hand below his thumb and he sent me a Pic of him getting 7 stitches.
That’s why I always tell people to buy standard German knifes (I’m from germany, so biased). Japanese steel is great, but you have to know what you’re doing, and most people don’t. Standard steel from Germany or US is the best for most people, easy to sharpen and easy to maintain.
From my experience, owners of Japanese knifes have the dullest knifes, because they only buy it for the show. In Germany, the Shun knifes have become famous with a TV-Cook, „Tim Mälzer“. Would never buy one of these
Very interesting
@@EDCandLaceA honing rod doesn't intend to remove material, but aligns the edge, while fixing chips that break off due to metal fatigue.
I respect you being a professional sharpener, but hardness isn't very relevant for a honing rod.
10:07. Long time knife-maker and sharpener. You are the first person Ive ever seen to call this out. You really do know what you're talking about. Subscribed
Hes doing it wrong though. Hes not leading with the edge. And it doesnt work on super steels, but soft stainless seen in scandi grine butchering and skinning knives. This is one of those things were both sides are right but fail to understand
I'm a life long knife user, kitchen and butcher knives with a pocket knife in my pocket. I keep them very sharp. Cutting up in the kitchen never is like rolling the edge against hard drawn copper pipe. That is absolutely not what a steel corrects. It restores an edge's sharpness. Not 100%, maybe 95%. Steel when an edge starts to dull and bam, sharp again. The good part is no steel is removed from the knife in restoring the edge. Using a steel I sharpen on a stone 3 or 4 times a year rather than once a week without steel. My 40 yr old knives still have virtually their whole blade. Butchers tended not to re--grove their steels, calling them "slicks." Sharpening/honing rods are abrasive sharpeners, not steels. Proper stroke on a steel is nothing like that used on honing rods here then imitated on a steel to prove the steel does nothing. Wrong, steels save knives. Follow what you will and do what you want to with your own knives.
I've been cooking for years and have been worshipping the honing steels for making kitchen work easier. This completely changed how I look at all this. Very scientific, very detailed and evident. I'm very glad I stumbled onto this channel, I feel very educated.
Why can't all people be like you? Bless you.
The worse experience is when a chef uses a honing steel rod on his knife, and proceeds to cut meat to serve me without first cleaning the steel shavings from the knife and I can see the shavings on the meat on your plate. I lost count of the number of times I had to remind the chef to clean the shaving first. And what is even worse is some of them become annoyed by the request which tells me they are totally clueless.
this is why i dont like my food to be prepared by strangers
TBH, that makes perfect sense - they don't actually know much about knives beyond using them in the kitchen, and are not aware they are creating steel shavings when they do that. And since they've developed habits based upon that through years of education and/or on-the-job experience before they even become chefs, that is exactly what would happen. The food-service industry is one of the worst in terms of 'old, bad habits that stick around because of tradition.' A majority of formally educated chefs around the world believe strongly in 'traditional' Italian rules of cooking that reflect the attitudes of people in a very specific period of the 1890s, because a bunch of 'former' fascists decided that the only acceptable way to cook was the way *their* specific grandmas made it. The fads and superstitions of a specific decade were Locked In permanently and chefs still quote these 'rules' as gospel truth.
Oh dear god. I assure u that chef is using a polished steel that removes zero metal and also has a magnet. They would never be using even a regular cut steel on their knives
Didu r
Clueless and arrogant
I teach sharpening at a woodworking store where I work part time. I'm constantly amazed at how many people have no idea what sharp really is. Recently sharpened a set of kitchen knives for a customer and he could not believe how well they cut. I am not a professional, just an enthusiast who enjoys sharp objects. (hmm, sounds weird out loud.) :-)
I've had that discussion with people about honing steels, and as you say most don't want to believe it. I always recommend they throw it away and at least buy a ceramic rod instead.
Ah yes the woodworking sharp. I have my experience and understand the science behind it all. I have some wood chisels (just Stanley’s) and a Tormek. Sharpened my chisels to “omg I cut myself and didn’t feel it sharp”. That’s exactly what happened while trimming out a door hinge and because my chisels were always “meh” I learned a wrong technique and that’s what led to the cut and the bleeding. 🩸 Wasn’t a “need stitches” cut but I was totally blown away about 1. Sharp tools make things much easier. 2. Body parts have no business being in any way of any sharp edge. 😂. 3. Truly Sharp ends of tools should have some protection when stored and/or when you grab them you don’t cut yourself just doing that.
We‘ve got a ceramic sharpening rod. Are they doing something different? It used to be white but is now grey allover, so there’s definitely an effect on the blades, but that’s about all I know.
We‘ve never sharpened our knives before. Just use them as bought, and put in the dishwasher to clean. Then the occasional rod treatment, and they cut more easily after that. 🤷♀️
@@johnkruton9708 - lol, tell stumpy nubbs - et al - not to slam his planes down (ha ha ha)
A friend wanted me to sharpen his kitchen knife. He decided it was time to wash and dry it. The towell was folded in a way that gave 4 layers when he cut through all 4 and into his hand and didn't feel a thing. The next time I sharpened one, he used it to cut open a bag of chips and cut the tip of his finger off. I told him that I'm never sharpening a knife for him again and "don't ever touch any of mine!"@@johnkruton9708
@@ArDeeMee Yes, ceramic or diamond (I have both) are actually abrasive and sharpen by removing material the same way as a sharpening stone does. They're just in stick or rod shape instead of a flat stone. Ceramic is usually a very fine grit abrasive, rather than course.
After watching this video 3 times to make sure I have a complete grasp on your suppositions, tests, and results, I'd like to weigh in.
First I wanted to say great video and excellent testing. Being able to see the results under the microscope was fascinating.
I am a professional chef and spend a lot of time both using and maintaining knives, even going so far as to offer my sharpening services to my coworkers and friends in the restaurant industry. I use both whetstones as well as a belt grinder to accomplish my sharpening. I have also sworn by using a honing rod (never called it a sharpening rod as I knew it was non abrasive unless ceramic or coated in abrasive) for years, when knives seem to lose their sharpness after much use. Your video has made me question whether or not I should continue using a honing rod and I'd like to suppose some things that maybe you could test in future videos.
1. I use a honing rod multiple times a day depending on the volume of knife work I am doing. There are days I am making literally thousands of cuts before using a honing rod or whetstone to touch up an edge. Is it possible that your tests against the simulated cutting board were not accurately representing wear and tear on a real kitchen knife? I know this could have little bearing on the results, but am interested to see what a chef's knife apex looks like after a few hours of cutting, not just a few minutes. I'd be happy to send you two of my knives, one that was just sharpened and one that was used for an entire day of knife work, to see the edge under your microscope.
2. It is possible to have an edge that is "too" sharp for the task. Earlier in my days of sharpening I had experiences where I would attempt to cut a tomato or a lime with a mirror polished edge and would struggle, but would have no problem shaving my arm, or push cutting paper. I've since left my apex a little rough for knives that are used for general purposes and not cutting meat or fish. A mirror edge is great for cutting sashimi, not so great for making lime wedges. Is it possible that the rough apex keeps the knife sharp enough for the utility of your average kitchen without needing any further polishing?
3. Could you perform real tests using real ingredients to test the practical uses of each edge? I'd be interested to see how that rolled edge performed on a lime before and after the honing rod.
Finally, I'd like to thank you for recommending a diamond plate for quick sharpening, I think I'll invest in one to keep in my knife roll and leave the honing steel at home until I've done some more research. I'm willing to let go of the honing steel, but not until I've vetted every last reason why it might be a waste of my time.
Looking forward to more of your videos!
I think the reason a polished blade doesn't work well on limes is not that it's "too sharp", but rather that it is too smooth on the flanks. What happens is that the apex cuts into the skin alright, but the skin is too inflexible to allow the rest of the blade to sink in deeper, so the edge then doesn't actually do anything more then, you're just sliding along the sides of the wedge created by the initial cut. It's basically the same reason as why you can't cut wood even with an arbitrarily sharp knife.
Blades that are, on paper, worse avoid this problem: the burrs and grinding marks on the sides both pull the blade down on a push stroke, and also act like microscopic sawteeth that move some material out of the way. It would be interesting whether the same effect can be achieved by sliding a proper sharp knife a couple of times over medium-grit sandpaper at a very acute angle, and thus get the best of both worls.
An alternative is of course to use actual serrated knives for such tasks.
leaving a rough edge I believe has the effect of making mini serrations hence the better cutting with some foods
I immediately checked the comments for someone saying what you said :)
One would never encounter a 'rolled edge' as was created (with much effort).
Therefore the test with the honing rod was not realistic, and was certain to fail.
The kitchen honing rod is used in the kitchen, for quickly reviving a sharp edge.
In this respect, it is a very useful tool.
Bugger, should have read the comments before I posted, lol. A mirror edge sticks due to surface tension, so yes, a knife can be too sharp IMHO. Certainly for smashing through veggies!
Interesting! Your #2 point reflects my comment about woodworkers.
When I use the steel with my kitchen knives. I push the blade, not dragging the blade. When I do this I can shave with the knife that I couldn't shave with prior to using the steel rod.
As do I. I have Asian associates from Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and China that place the end of the rod on a towel on the counter with the handle up and push the blade down the rod.
I have done it this way for years, and my knives stay sharp for years before sharpening. I use Kai Shun - Sora knives.
I used to work as a fisherman and i use to do it the same way and it worked for me. The only times it dint work was if i was cuting in steel angels or other steel items. But i have to say it was working best on my Victorinox knives and not so god on the more heavy working knives.
Exactly. Hes doing it backwardsm
I have been a professional fisherman for over 40 years & have found the best way to sharpen the "cheap" stainless knives that i use, As they go into the sea with somewhat regularity. Is to use a circular sharpening motion not back and forth. I have to then use a steel to get it to cut right after about gutting 60 fish. I can use the steel at least 5-10 times before I need to sharpen it on the stone. If I don't use the steel & resharpen it takes much longer & does not last any longer than the steel. The way I use the steel is always pulling the blade forwards. If I do it backwards it is not as good. I have no idea what the actual edge looks like as my eyes are not that good. But I gut over 60,000 fish a year so I can tell you the way I do it works for gutting fish! I don't bother splitting hairs with my knife as no one wants to buy them, so not sure if my sharpening method is good for that. Great video though & good close up pics.
Nothing works like simplicity, also backed by real-life experience. Nicely put.
Have you actually tried sharpening properly and removing the burr though? I'm guessing never since you mention not being able to see the blade which does require magnification for most people. Just because it works doesn't mean it's working as well as it could. I have worked in a lot of industries where "we've always done it this way" is the rule but quite often if I can get them to listen I can radically improve their system (it's what I do, solve problems). As with anything I don't know if it would be better in this specific situation which is why if I worked in fishery I would test my theories before suggesting anything.
@@_droid Because I am gutting around 300 fish a day & they all have shell in their gut, the blade goes dull after around 100 fish. It takes me around 25 mins to do that many. if I had to spend 15 min sharpening the blade each time it would add extra hrs to my day. Maybe if it was a high carbon blade it would last better. but the salt wrecks them if you have a few days off.
@@calthorp Personally I would test how long the edges lasts normally versus removing the burr (takes less than 2 min BTW). If there is no difference or the couple extra minutes sharping is longer than the gain in edge life then obviously it's not worth it. I'm a scientist though and I would normally do this for other people before even suggesting it. In the real world it doesn't really matter as long as you accomplish what you want.
@@_droid I think by sharpening with a circular motion on a wet stone it probably does not have a burr. have you tried it?
I have used a butcher steel a lot for work purposes in the past. It was always with the edge leading basically trying to slice a thin piece of the steel off.
Yup that's how it is supposed to be used
@@juho1227 Exactly, can't beleive this clown is doing it wrong (no doubt his Amazon affiliation income will be better if he can PROVE these rods are no good)
I used to cook professionally, slicing and dicing 10-12 hours per day. I would use a steel with 10 light passes about 4 times during the day. When the steel failed to bring the edge back that's when I took the knife to the stone; about once a month +/- for the 8". A mechanic doesn't use a crescent wrench for every size bolt.
I had an 8" F. Dick chiefs knife (from C school) for most stuff, a 12" Gerber wide thin blade for veggies and a heavy 12" Hoffritz for, well heavy cutting like a light cleaver (or a hammer). Three knives from 3 different manufactures and never had any problems keeping a sharp edge on any of them. Of course your millage may vary.
(btw, use the knife like a saw, blade length strokes and let the weight of the knife and smooth movement cut through the product. Most people push the knife straight down and crush through the product thinking that's cutting.)
Must admit, I prefer when you draw. Love the zoom details, but it's much easier to see/understand when you draw it, like you did.
Thank you for making this, been wandering about honing steels for such a long time. And like your other videos, you show and answer questions in a definitive way, which is NOWHERE else on the internet! Thank you!
I liked the microscope better. But maybe the drawing is required for first time explanations, when we don't know what we are looking at.
@@diox8tonyI think my ideal would be the microscope view with a little diagram to orient us to what we're looking at.
I was thinking about this during the video. I think the micro shots are hard to see because of the reflection and lack of context.
I think a micro video would be ideal, but flipping between a few shots that have been nudged slightly might be enough.
It would also help if the depth of field weren't so shallow. Something like a probe lens would give more context.@@NickTerry
I worked as a butcher in a meat packing plant for about 5 years, there were 200 workers on the production floor, so we had a knife room where they would use power knife grinders, we would always get our knives back with pretty big burr so you'd use that steel to break the burr at the true apex then we'd use a smooth steel to straighten and a ceramic for a fine edge
Smooth/polished steels for the win! Butchers know where it's at! This video really doesn't go into why those casual honing steels are so awful: it's because people keep buying those cheap-ass ribbed ones that tear up your edges. Polished steels are fantastic.
Agree. Worked on a kill floor. My brother was a ham boner. Number of cousins worked boning, hitching ribs, etc. Power sharpening or even stone honing always needed worked to get truly sharp. Hence we all got 10 minutes per day knife buffing pay. :D
Yes i still do this part time and this is how i work.
Butchers word is gospel. Learned from machine shop foreman. Smooth rod to cycle burr decreases grain structure tighter and tighter. strain hardening it until maximum hardness achieved and burr breaks off. Very small amount of strain hardened metal remains on blade and can be lightly sharpened with solid real ceramic rod. A dozen alternating light strops on my denim, cotton bib or doubled terry cloth on counter and we surgical.
Author needs to sharpen a paper clip; then flex a paper clip till it brittle breaks and sharpen the brittle break face. Yup, think of knife blade as a stacked row of broken paper clips.
If you dont work knife edge w smooth hone, then you are only sharpening soft metal and haven’t reached even a fraction of blades capability in creating a sharper and significantly more durable edge.
Totally agree. I have a technique to do the same thing better and with less loss of material, but it would be too slow for a professional environment.
thanks. i had been using a steel for many years until i purchased a diamond sharpening tool. never went back, but thanks for educating me on the HOW and the WHY the steel performed so poorly. i learned something new today!! -best
I think this tool needs to be contextualized. While you're working you want to spend your time cooking, not sharpening knives. This tool lets you extend the time between sharpenings. It doesn't actually make the knife's sharpness better, but "less bad", until you feel it's time to sharpen it again.
That's why we need a knife with good quality steel, its the best way to extend time between sharpening our knives. I know... its expensives 😂
I think the idea is that removing the burr takes the same amount of time as a honing rod
Именно. Править кромку. Не точить.
@@alextp8821with the harder steels, you also need the right technique to not damage the more fragile edges, though I suppose what would chip a more brittle steel would still dull the cheap stuff
He's too busy with his strawman argument that he's too blind to get that simple fact. 🙄🙄🙄
As a professional knife sharpener I appreciate how you have approached this video and explanation of how a steel works and better alternatives.
As a professional chef who can do more work with a knife in one day than a home cook will do in a year I would say that a good steel still has it's place to maintain an edge quickly and efficiently. They never have and never will sharpen a dull knife but they do keep a good edge "clean".
A good test of whatever technique to maintain an edge would be to finely dice 20kg's of onions or do a few kg's of carrot julienne.
Traditional European chef's knives tend not to have a fine bevel, 20 plus degrees, it's only the fairly recent uptake of Asian style knives where the bevel becomes finer and they are designed and used differently.
It's a bit of a rabbit hole but boils down to the correct tool for the work required and the correct maintenance and use of the tool.
Thank you for the thought provoking vid, all the best.
Key: to MAINTAIN an edge. Sharpen the knife, then keep it sharp with the steel.
agreed, I'm no chef but I do use a knife a lot in a kitchen, and these steels work wonders when used correctly. I don't know how anyone ever got the idea that they sharpen knives. This video saying that steels are obsolete just goes to show how even a person with experience can be ignorant in some areas. I think chefs use knives more than anyone else on the planet, and they'll know best about this subject
@@moonasha he literally cut a 2x4 it was still sharp. How would lightly cutting an onion even damage it in the slightest comparing it 1 to 1
@@ruki1r I think the main cause of bending and messing up the edge comes from hitting the cutting board, not cutting the vegetables. And its a death from a thousand cuts so to speak ^^
@@GA1313E yes and bone probably but as he demonstrated as well that a sharper blade can withstand the cutting board up to 500x compared to a honed only knife
Dude- that was the best demonstration of the mechanics and theory of edge, burr, and honing steel I’ve ever seen. Well done…. And thank you very much for this video!!
But he mislead you. He is using the wrong stick, the wrong way, for the wrong purpose.
He is as much of a professional knife sharpener as I am a professional shitter, had I put my dump under a microscope.
Its like mythbusters busting made up bullshit, so they can make a video about it. Except this guy doesnt even know how and for what o use a sharpening stick.
My mate is a chef. He says that rods are great for a fast touch-up while working in a hectic kitchen, because proper sharpening takes time he just doesn't have. His knives are beautiful and next level sharp. "I can only work as fast as my knives let me, and a sharp knife is a fast knife," he told me. He absolutely cherishes them because they're a joy to use, they keep a scalpel like edge, and they pay his bills.
Bang on!
I sharpened my knife properly for the first time today and now I'm watching this video while making very thin slices of a piece of paper with the knife. It's very enjoyable. Thanks for your tips!
Yup, love this channel…….finally the science to backup what I’ve been doing for years which is NEVER use a honing rod.
I tried using one once years ago after I stone sharpened and stropped a kitchen knife, it actually made the knife duller. Just to be sure I repeated the sharpening a few more times after honing and got the same result. Honing took the shaving sharp edge away so I just called it BS and carried on doing what worked for me.
Thank you for this!
Thank you so much for this video. Honing rods have always been a mystery to me. nobody in my kitchen could ever agree about what they actually did, and yet everyone but me had one and loved doing the speedy gonzalez with it. It's great to finally have the nerd clarification on this topic
What always gets me is that even _if_ it did anything, such speedy "sharpening" would simply serve to ruin the edge anyway. Speedy means sloppy, and sloppy means you're going to fuck up your alignment. You'd never hit a sharpening stone or a strop at light speed, but so many cooks seem to think slapping their knife against a metal rod that fast will magically fix their edge.
@@jamesruth100 You don't understand. They've done it so many times and they have such an immense amount of experience that they can do it lightning fast without any mistakes. Well, that's what they want you to think anyway.
@@treborrrrr "I can find the angle in my sleep" says the man holding a paring knife that was once a santoku.
Former Butcher here, my two cents: the KEY is to use the honing steel fairly often, every 10-20 cuts, to PREVENT the edge from rolling too much: LIGHT pressure, LEAD with the edge, do the whole blade from heel to tip in a single arcing stroke.
When the edge bent excessively to one side, it was time to send the knife back to the sharpening service. At that point there was nothing we could do to fix it with a honing steel.
It is probably the most difficult tool to master in a kitchen or butcher's shop, it take A LOT of practice to use it properly and only about 5% of the people I ever met could actually put it to good use, everyone else just messed up the blade. But it does have a purpose.
I'm a chef and I agree with you, for nearly 40 years I've been using steels to sharpen my knives and I still use the same knives I started out with, I've got through a few steels though! There's a big difference between someone with little knife experience making a UA-cam video and a proper professional experienced knife user. There's a reason we use steels and I'd say it's because when done properly it's fast, efficient, and doesn't damage or cause excessive wear to the blade. You need to use it properly and regularly though and I think it's something that comes with experience and not something you can do after a couple of weeks of messing around.
70 yr old son of a butcher. My old man didn't teach me much, (except what NOT to do to be a good father), but he taught me at about 12-13 how to sharpen, use & maintain knives.
He was older when I was born & learned butchery in the late '20's, (1920's!), in NYC.
He taught me how to create a proper edge on a blade & taught me EXACTLY what you explained re: the purpose & use of a steel.
This guy is using diamond, which I use, now, & love. Diamond is akin to cheating, compared to natural stone; the surface is nearly perfectly identical, unlike a stone & it's cutting ability reduces passes by 60-70%, in my experience.
When I got some diamonds, I sharpened everything w/ an edge I owned: knives, scissors, lawn mower, (I keep a knive-like edge on it... it works well), hoes, trimmers, pruners... you name it.
I brought all if them to dangerous sharp in about the same time it took me to do 2-3 of them.
There's things poster doesn't understand about what he's 'busting'; too old & don't have the time to waste explaining it all to him.
One other thing, I, too, have amazing magnification capabilities & most people can for less than 10 bucks... buy a moderately good jeweler's loupe.
I have one I use regularly, several actually, & another that's about 2x's the mag; it's good for looking at intricate stuff like end mills, taps & such, but overkill for a straight edge.
A last tip I discovered/then stole from the machining world. You know how machinists 'blue' things w/ die; blue Sharpies have replaced Dykem for most purposes.
I use a blue Sharpie on an edge before I sharpen it, as a visual guide for contact angulation; it helps, even 70 yr old hands that have sharpened for 50+ yrs.
GeoD
Caveman line cook here. I’ve always lead with the edge with great results. I guess I’ll never start using my steel backwards, because it will ruin my edge.
Sharpening service? A butcher that can't sharpen a knife is like a mechanic that can't use a wrench. You are benched.
@@jeffreybrown4015 There was a time in this country, pre-carbide era, when sharpening experts & shops were common. In my teens & 20's, all carpenters had 2 racks of saw blades, alternately traded w/ 'The Sharpening Guy'. In some communities, these guys did knives for slaughter houses & grocery chains; the butchers did the maintenance, but a 'new grind' wasn't done in house. Thet also did work for the average consumer. Put it all together & a man could feed his family.
With the advent of carbide, the handwriting was on the wall, within a decade, a 'Sharpening Guy' was nowhere to be found.
Gets me to wondering about blade users; suspect a knife gets chucked & replaced, now, instead of re-ground & re-birthed. We do live in a throw away world.
I inherited my dad's knives; used them for years, they'd lived & worked a long life. They're in an attic box, somewhere, the handles got too beat for anything but a bachelor's household.
My main blades are ceramic, w/ an eclectic mix of oddball fav's.
I actually find these rods helpful when used in the right application. I use mine for very light "tune ups" in between proper sharpening - not repairing edges or anything just light maintenance. I usually sharpen my kitchen knives about once a year and then use the rod after every 2nd or 3rd use. This has worked very well for me and my knives are always razor sharp, but maybe it's a placebo effect or maybe it's only working because my knives are starting off properly sharpened. Great video in any case.
You're right. Honing rods are actually great, especially for maintaining knives with a pretty soft edge.
I like hard knife steels... to sharpen my card scrapers 😜
You always can use Knife Sharpening Honing diamond stick without any issues!!
Exactly, they work well to tune up a properly sharpened edge that has been slightly dulled
( rounded ). Especially on softer steel.
I'm a professional carpenter / woodworker and have been sharpening everything from axes to razors for 50 years, and I think a lot of these guys kind of get lost in the weeds and overthink things.
And after sharpening with coarser India or Arkansas stones the steel would smooth and/or bend over the tops of the deep scratches and give the edge a smoother cutting “feel” for sure, and some might call that sharper than before. I always heard that the metal edge gets pushed and smeared around.
I think some pro chef should come on the show and demonstrate before & after the steel use, and only after cutting real food and not just playing woodpecker with the knife (and with better quality knifes too). I respect Outdoors55’s blade making & sharpening, but don’t give a demonstration of something that you have no experience with. I think if there is something to learn about “sharpening steels” then seek out someone that makes a living with it, like chefs and butchers.
F. Dick, the German company who have made steel rods (both fluted and smooth) for 100+ years, 1) calls them sharpening steels and 2) instructs edge leading not edge trailing strokes.
I agree. Edge leading works albeit temporarily but the cutting performance improves. Using tomatoes as my guide
@@charlesorsay2389 Yeah, from about 25 years of being in and out of various knife-centric fields, making my own, being around a lot of high volume butchers... the edge-leading use of a steel is a down & dirty way to keep the edge of softer steel stainless working blades relatively aligned, apex'd, and polished. It isn't proper sharpening, it isn't anything of the sort. But for somebody who is cutting volumes of meat all day long, yeah it'll fix imperfections from nicking bone or tough connective tissue, and extend the time between proper sharpening which is usually outsourced to a company that just uses a grinding machine. The edge leading method reduces thinning and odd burrs at the apex, especially when doing the high-speed "steeling" that these guys do, that in no way maintains any sort of consistent angle or pressure on the actual bevel.
...edge leading not edge trailing strokes...
I've seen a few of his videos and I think this guy means well but I also think he's learning as he goes along while hide this fact. I have a much longer post above on this but, in a nutshell, I had a job in a chicken processing plant in 1977. I had an accident and was put on light, (knife sharpening), duty for 6 weeks. I learned a lot including how to use a steel the proper way that you mentioned above. He's trying to use a steel like a razor strop. I'll give him credit for one thing though. In my opinion, rough steels are trash, unless of course, you are trying to sharpen a hacksaw.
@@jeffmccrea9347 Agreed my friend.
@@silvermediastudioOn point. A beef neck or chuck will roll an edge quick.
I use those to realign the edge. Sometimes my knives develop a curve. I use the rod to help straighten the edge out.
That is the correct way to use it.
Thank you for the work you put into this. It is an interesting topic. I personally use a honing rod after every use of my kitchen knives, and have done so for 20+ years. The last 5 years I have ventured into sharpening and a general knife interest. I do not have a microscope to film my burrs, so I use my fingers to feel it. I suck at free hand sharpening (and have almost destroyed quality knives that way), so I use a guided system, the Work Sharp Precision adjust. It seems to do a better job than factory sharpness, and way better than any of my free hand sharpening attempts. The only free hand sharpening action I do on occasion is free hand stropping.
Back to the honing rod. Both before and after I started to properly sharpen my knives, I find it extends the time between sharpenings, and when other family members (who do not hone or sharpen) have used some knives for an extended period, I can notice they are duller, and then the honing helps. Maybe I have some micro burr. Maybe I roll the edges differently from yours under use. I don’t know, but I know it improves the cutting and slicing ability of the knife.
And the last point: I am obviously honing wrong. I use the honing rod by moving the knife with the edge first. Not in an edge trailing motion, like when stropping, but like I am sharpening. Maybe I create a new micro burr? I use a little pressure, and move at medium speed, being in control and covering the entire length of the blade. I alternate sides, and usually make up to 20 passes in total. I could use a stone or a strap, but they are not as readily available (stones need a stable base and the strop use compounds, etc).
I do not think you mention stropping as an improved alternative to honing, either, but I may not have watched closely enough.
Anyway, I like the video, and would suggest that you try to research what the kitchen knives of people with less sharpening skills than you look like when they consider them sharp, and what their actual use of the knife does to the edge, because I think both the copper pipe roll and the hammering against wood is not proven to be a proper simulation of actual use.
Yeah I never bought the "straightens the rolled edge" because a hone is essentially a file with the teeth cut longitudinal. The steel is glass hard so your stainless kitchen knife is getting cut like butter. I typically use the hone edge-forward first to literally knock off the burr, then backward to burnish the edge. My brother uses a "sharpener" from the hardware section, and all of his knives are "micro-serrated"
ua-cam.com/video/65JzsDU_0mI/v-deo.html
Well that explains why I have always felt like the steels that come with knife sets were not doing anything. The only one I have ever had that actually made the knife feel sharper was my grandfather's and it has EZE Lap diamond hone molded in the handle. An abrasive one just like you said.
In my experience, both whetstones and steels have their place. Whetstones cut the bevel and refine it. Steels “get you by” for a while before needing to return to the stones. On steels, I use edge leading passes with med/light pressure. Start out flatter than the bevel and slowly increase your angle until you start to feel it slightly begin to bite……hold that angle. Also it’s important to move the blade in both axis across the steel.
I was a professional knife sharpener in a fish plant for about 30 to 40 filleters. (unfortunately 50% of them had no idea what "sharp" meant) One filleter in particular wanted his knife "sharp enough to shave with". I decided to give him exactly what he asked for and spent about 3 seconds using my medium steel. I told him to shave his arm hairs and he was extremely impressed until he had to "saw" through his fillet. After complaining that it was the dullest knife he ever used, I spent another minute with my smooth steel. He tried shaving and complained that it wouldn't, but with 2 fingers and his thumb holding the knife, glided through the fillet with ease, commenting that it was the "sharpest" he ever used. He never asked for me to make his knives "razor sharp" again.
@@bwellman1953 New to sharpening here, could you explain why the one that cuts hair won't cut a fillet, but the one that won't cut hair will cut a fillet?
@mattjohnson9727
I'm not sure that I can. First off, "they" were both the same knife.When "shavable", it did in fact fillet a fish, but it wasn't easy. I can say that a "razor sharp" knife is the beginning of a really sharp knife, but it still needs that jagged edge smoothed. After the microscopic barbs are removed, I have said in the past (maybe mistakenly) that it's too smooth to "grab" the hair. I was/am 100% self taught, except for the part about using steels (50%).
@@mattjohnson9727 I also regularly hone straight razors. Typically they have 16-17 degree bevels. Those bevels are extremely smooth and refined to the point where they will cut a single hair when brought to the edge effortlessly. I would guess the knifes steel couldn’t take the acute bevel and it developed a burr. The burr would cut hair, but broke off on the fish. Even if it did take a nice bevel, very acute bevels are easily destroyed.
@@mattjohnson9727 he mentioned in the video, burrs can be sharp enough to cut hair but they break off easily especially when you fillet through mussel fiber, good fillet knife or any knife need the burr removed and use the apex to cut
I love your testing process and actual close up pics and video. Very clear and proves it to a point it can't be argued. I wish more content creators brought it to this level.
I've been a knife enthusiasts for years. I hand sharpen all my knives. All I know is, when I'm cutting things in the kitchen, and my knife loses its "bite" a few light "edge forward" passes on my steele brings the edge right back.
Try a few passes going down the steel towards your hand. Works way better. I have never seen anyone cut themselves while using a steel properly.
Fwiw. The knife was sharpened edge forward on the diamond stone at the end of video but the honing rod was always ran edge back so we didn’t really get an equal comparison.
Yeah what said me off guard too. Everyone says to hone edge first… I’m a little confused now lol
Thank you for continuing my knife sharpening knowledge and removing all the inaccurate information ive learned through the years.
He is promoting stuff.
He makes money dissing steels.
@@fritzdrybeam haha what now?
@@orangerider2827 Great argument.
@@fritzdrybeam what are you even talking about? What steel is he dissing here? What it he promoting? A product that doesn't doesn't work?
@@orangerider2827 Look in the description. He is promoting products.
Just another grifter, on UA-cam.
Superb. Been telling folk for years that a honing steel isn’t for sharpening a knife. Thanks for this 👏🏻
Although we don't have to forget that for many people with not perfect knives this thing makes the knife sharper in a way
@@heni63 it kind of chips the apex and creates some burr as well, only giving the impression it gets sharper. But a proper apex is in fact much much sharper (and will resist better too).
Correct, it's for keeping it sharp. Use it regularly (and correctly, unlike in the video) and you'll never need a proper sharpen again.
OMG! Your videos about knife sharpening is a life changer for me! It's one of those things that is so simple to implement yet makes life so much better. Thank you!
Dude, even ChatGPT knows, to use a honing rod, you need do it edge leading
Chat got just rips the first thing a person says once and spits it at you like an essay, has nothing to do with right or wrong in its sender to your question, the steel rod he was showing is just for example too, watch the full video. Rods just mangle your edge unless your knife was in trash’s condition to begin with. You can sharpen on a brick better then those steels and anyone who fights me on that has never used the brick
yall are so cooked
This is interesting. I do use a steel in the kitchen, but I use it in an opposite motion, as if shaving metal off the steel. I have always considered the steel to be a specialized file. It stretches out the time between sitting down and doing a full sharpening - I use a synthetic double-sided oil stone for that. I do know that over time, use causes the apex to turn to where you can detect the turn with a finger nail. I use the steel to remove the turned bit. I always imagined, since I was taught to use the steel opposite to what you show, that the steel _removes_ the rolled bit, essentially filing it away. After a "several" steelings the edge may get fussy about slicing ripe tomatoes and fail to restore to a fully useful edge. It is then that I get out the stones.
I was taught by a very good butcher not to draw the knife towards me but to push the knife away, as if I wanted to shave a very thin layer of steel from the rod. It works.
@@RayCotta-d1g The "away" rule is to protect you from yourself. Pulling the knife toward the hilt _might,_ under severely adverse circumstances, lead to an accidental cut, and with a sharp knife, fingers on the floor. The position of the edge relative to the steel surface and the angle is the same in either direction. I prefer the way I was taught mainly because it's more comfortable to me. I've worked in a kitchen where we were supposed to hold the steel vertically in a dagger hold, with the tip on a counter or block. The knife was held against the steel and "cut" downward like we were trying to remove shavings from the steel. Heaven help you if the chef saw you doing it any other way.
Went into this one fearing my 1200 ceramic rod would have to go. Glad to see I haven't been imagining things. One of the challenges I'm having is figuring out if leading or trailing pulls are better. I think this kind of answered that one, too. I should be using light pulls forward to polish the apex ever so slightly.
Semi-light leading edge passes are for sharpening, light trailing edge passes are for honing and removing the burr.
with abrasives, direction doesn't matter, as he already showed in another (old) video
... trailing may be EASIER to go light and thus remove any burrs, tho. but under the microscope, the result should be the same (assuming the same force is applied and there's no edge rolling, that is)
I actually like Ceramic Hone Rods alot! They work the exact way for people who are used to old Steels, and they often fit into the Knife block many people have!
They also work with the harder Japanese knife steels too
Very well explained ! I'll have to re watch to absorb everything thoroughly, but not on account of bad presentation...i just process slowly. I'll absolutely be referring this video to several friends immediately !
I was taught to sharpen by a professional butcher, have been sharpening for years, and you just changed my whole understanding of the process. Thanks.
I mostly use a completely smooth polishing steel with oval cross section. It 100% works and with 5-10 light pressure passes before use it keeps my knived sharp. You can even see the difference on the edge under bright light.
Yes they work, just not how he thinks they do. A hone is not supposed to unroll an edge, they are to algin/straighten a wavy edge. He never checked how straight an edge is here, so he ignored the whole purpose of a hone by focusing on unrolling an edge, which is not the purpose of a hone.
@@acmhfmggru Yeah I usually like his content, but I'd say he missed the mark too. Maybe if he did some slicing with large chef's knives he'd understand the purpose of a hone.
Your science is correct, but here are some additional points.
I never use a steel "trailing". Rather, I use it by "cutting" the steel, same as when I sharpen. This is how it is intended to be used. In my way of thinking a "honing rod" is one with an abrasive coating (diamond or ceramic) that does indeed remove metal and thus sharpen.
To "sharpen" a cabinet scraper (woodworking) a burnishing rod is used to create the rolled edge that does the work. A steel is effectively a burnishing rod. If you are working in a kitchen and your knife is dulling to the point it interferes with effective cutting it is a fact that a few strokes on a steel will bring the edge back to life, ask any butcher. So you are correct that steeling is not sharpening and it is not, in the end, good for the knife. The best way isn't always the practical option when one leaves the "lab" and enters the kitchen.
I have a video coming out addessing your concernsua-cam.com/video/65JzsDU_0mI/v-deo.html
Commercial guy's do it all day everyday. I personally use a oval dexter diamond steel for kitchen knives. Once a year or so I use stones. I'm not a pro. I always sharpen everything edge taking a cut out of the stones. Pioneers used river stones seemed to work for them.
My father always dragged the blade and only used wet dry sandpaper up to 1200 grit followed by a razor strop and had really sharp knives.
@@OUTDOORS55 try doing it properly
I think he is intentionally using it wrong to make his point. Just creating you tube content.
Careful, you are turning into a Professional UA-camr now also. Production Value through the roof, plus excellent topic and explanation!!!!
Thanks I appreciate it!
Professional and experienced chef of almost 3 decades here. I have a fair level of expertise with knife sharpening.
Steel honing rods do not straighten a rolled edge, they do “comb” the burr-less metal edge so all metal fibers lay in the same direction. It removes metal shavings (the grey dust) as most are magnetic.
The speed of the honing is irrelevant if you have the right angle. You can do it fast if you know what you’re doing.
One step that helps is “stropping” as it uses the sharpening stone to break off random burrs before honing.
I am one of those few people who still use a scythe. My dad used to sharpen it once a year on a grinding wheel, and then we used a ceramic rod a whole lot while out in the field, same technique as this rod. Like once every 5 min I was taught. I would love a video on sharpening scythes - it will be up to me now...
All I know is that a quick touch up with a steel, opposite direction to the way you demonstrated, restores the edge on my kitchen knives. How it’s working, I don’t care. I just know it works, fast and easy.
Thanks for revealing this at magnification. I'd heard arguments one way or another for many years, but visibly seeing the effects of a honing steel, contrasted against a diamond stone, solidifies my understanding of the concept.
You always can use Knife Sharpening Honing diamond stick without any issues!!
the magnification didn't prove much except that he doesn't know how to use a steel.
I never trail the blade using a steel, and my knives are sharp enough to slice tomato skins without using any pressure.
I've been doing this for about 25 years. I don't even own a sharpening stone. I don't need one.
I've never tried cutting paper or shaving with my knives either, because I have special tools for that.
Very interesting video, and BTW your videos are much slicker these days! It also appears that the steels create a very small burr which will then be aligned with the apex, hence a very short lasting boost to cutting performance. It would be interesting to see a properly sharpened & deburred edge after a few dozen goes on the steel. I reckon that it would produce a very small burr.
Great job!
I thought the same. I believe « honing » steel rods are actually (unknowingly to most) adding a temporary burr (a rather straight, not rolled over or bent one). And that people find the knife becomes sharper because actually the burr, being irregular, acts as a sort of serrated edge. But obviously this won’t last long, as the burr is very fragile and gets removed by pieces into whatever you are cutting, aka food itself as well as the cutting boards, plates, dishes,… so you soon need another few passes on the rod to actually recreate the burr.
It would be very interesting, as a sequel to this very interesting video, to try cutting (very thin tomato slices, then a paper sheet) with :
1/ a not-so-sharp blade that has had a few light honing rod passes,
2/ then, the exact same blade with the burr removed just by honing on some cardboard plate (which is a famous ultra-cheap and supposedly rather efficient way of removing a burr)
3/ the same knife after a proper fine sharpening and burr removal.
My guess : on tomato, 1 and 3 would be great and 2 would suck. On a paper sheet, 1 would be irregular cut, 2 would be just dull, and only 3 would make clean, crisp, easy cuts.
I would happily bet 1€ on this
@@joso5554 now this is an interesting video idea!
Your analysis is Great! I've had some very (very) limited success, always edge first, with a steel maintaining an 'ok' blade at the 'maybe ok' stage, but by now I agree with you, and I've retired all of my lined and smooth steels in favor of diamond stones or real stones. (Maybe some of the confusion is with honing the "feather" on razor edges.) Very nice video showing why.
Hello, I want to buy the $20 S SATC Diamond Sharpening Stone, but it is out of stock. There are other options, but they look fake or really low quality. Can you please recommend another one and add a link so I can buy it. Thank you so much in advance. I truly enjoy your videos.
So, my grandfather worked in meat packing and got more money for going in early and sharpening all the knives before shift. He did use a steel, but nothing like they put in these knife blocks. He made a steel from a round file that he had completely smoothed to a point. The completely smooth tool grade steel will polish an already sharpened edge like a fine micron strop does. You can see it under a microscope. These ridged steels are worthless and destroy an edge, but smooth tool steel does "sharpen" steel until you need to refine the apex again.
Considering that we have, on occasion, had competitions in our restaurant kitchen to sharpen the back of a butter knife by using these steels I can 100% confirm that the steel does sharpen a knife. I also worked alongside a butcher who had to replace a couple of his knives every 18 months or so as he wore out his knives . . . on a steel. At 7:36 you mention there's a lack of understanding. Yes you're right, you don't understand them. Arguing over terminology does not negate the fact that a professional butcher does not use a whetstone yet has to replace a knife every year and a half, and we have on occasion turned a butter knife spine into a shaving implement, means it does, indeed, sharpen.
i do agree completely
Exactly. This bloke bought a microscope and thinks he is now a professional.
I suggest you film it and show us. Otherwise the evidence presented thus far is outdoors55 showing EVERYTHING and you telling an anecdote.
I thought the idea was to use it like a strop. The whole point is that it isn't abrasive, it straightens the microscopic deformations, not a huge roll like that.
I totally agree, Alex! I've never had a use for honing steels. Thanks for the detailed info supporting my thoughts.
None of the honing techniques shown here on the sharpening steel rod is as per the recommendation on the package my rod came in. Could this be the reason it's not working? I am happy with the results I am getting with my use of the honing steel rod.
👇
ua-cam.com/video/65JzsDU_0mI/v-deo.html
I'm a butcher, i use these types of rods everyday.
We have two models one with those striations and the other is basically smooth.
The one with the striations I use only after using the stone, and the smooth one i will use a lot more, after cutting a lot of meat and after using the one with striations.
The smooth one is good for maintenance of the edge, I can do heavy use of my knife without needing to taki it to stone for months
Your description is the closest in this thread to how I use a steel which I learned from a professional butcher friend decades ago. Edge leading strokes on a knife that has dulled. I can use my smooth steel to keep an edge cutting for a long time before having to remove steel and actually sharpen. I don't want to sound like the lone voice disagreeing with the prevailing opinion, but I suspect most people are using the steel incorrectly or the wrong steel for what they want, because my efforts always result in a much sharper knife very quickly. That being said I have used several different types of steels and they ALL perform differently. My smooth steel does it best over everything including ridged, ceramic and diamond steels which remove too much steel when using in the above described manner. I suspect that the smooth steel mimics a strop except it's easier and quicker.
@d1grizz smooth ones are great to keep a sharp knife. They will work fine if the blade has an edge, smooth rods will only fail if the blade is already dull. But people like to spend money on fancy rods that will only ruin their blades
Question. Why did you use edge leading strokes on the diamond stone to compare with the edge trailing strokes on the honing steel? Regardless, great video. Plus, your highly magnified stills are truly enlightening. Good work.
The honing steel straightens the edge which is bent to the side. Edge trailing strokes bend back to the original position by bending in the reverse direction.
Different stones may or may not allow you to use edge leading strokes. The edge leading stroke will create less of a bur on a stone than an edge trailing stroke.
If you have a coarse metal file and a piece of mild steel you can see the difference. A lawnmower blade or any thicker metal will work for this. Try to make an edge going in both directions. The bur will be visible without a magnifying lense.
BROOOOOOOOOOOOOO , YOU OPENED MY EYES . I've been wrong sooo long , about burr removal , I used to only straigten it into apex and call it a day and thoughts tahts sharpening . I also used only aluminium oxide whetstones , you just changed my point of view of everything bro. Love you.
Thank you man. Very helpful video. I was going this for a years and my knives were not sharp. Few years ago I found stone sharpening. Since then I am very happy. Yes, it takes some time to learn and develop your skills, but it worth it.
So why can I cut tomatoes thinner and easier after using my knife steel? I have been using one for over 50 years now and don't use it like you were showing. I don't drag the knife, but run it over the steel like I am cutting a strip of wood. Every test I have used indicates the knife is sharpener after using the steel than before I used the steel. Why is my results different from yours?
I also wish he had performed your way of sharpening as a test. This video felt like he was performing a david copperfield trick to highlight a belief he had without actually proving it properly. He did convince me that a diamond block is better and that gordon ramsay is a poser but that I kind of already knew. Like who would be surprised diamond sharpens the best right?
In this test he purposefully sharpened the knife edge forward on the diamond block and edge backwards on the steel rod every time to prove it didn't work as well. He says he tried every way possible. Why not show it?
Who knows.
Thank you for another great video. I want to add a couple things. Everyone in the world who uses these, moves in the opposite direction. It seems obvious to me that such a movement could not possibly straighten a roll, but people will steadfastly believe it anyway. I find the vast majority of unsharpening that happens to kitchen knives is just regular dulling, not rolling. I think to roll a knife you must be seriously abusing it or using a steel that is more garbage than even most $1 knives have. For a knife that is dulling, a honing rod will tear up the apex, putting micro-serrations into it. Those micro-serrations will improve the slicing ability somewhat for a short time (I think. maybe you can test it?). I think this is the benefit people are getting from using a honing steel. You can get that from using it in the direction most people use them. If you value having actually sharp knives, and have the ability to actually sharpen them, then tearing up the apex is not desirable. This is what I teach in my sharpening classes. For most people, however, they don't know how to sharpen and their knives are abysmally dull, so it probably doesn't hurt, but it's not getting them much improvement either, just wasting everyone's time and space.
This is exactly why people are perceiving A difference in sharpness after using A non abrasive hone. That is Also why they have to do it every 5 minutes and the knife has basically 0 edge Retention
Because they are basically cutting on what is essentially.
A fine burr or wire That rolls right over after A short amount of cutting And they see And Feel that Lip be created And that's what they're calling a Rolled edge when in reality it's just the Find wire bending over And or Pieces of the burr bending over. That is created From slamming the edge into the grooves in the hone. It's a very pointless tool it serves no True point and it's Something people think looks cool when in reality it's just further Destroying The already dull edge. However the damage that's happening is basically just creating ragged Micro serrations That are giving the illusion Of The knife cutting better.
he's just trashing it because he doesn't know how to use it. Edge LEADING is a must, and very light pressure. They act just like very fine files, and remove material and create a microbevel at the edge if done correctly.
Can you explain the use of TWO strops at 10:43 ? I haven’t seen you do that before. Apparently two different cutting compounds/grit size, but I’m dying for a longish video on the why when and how.
The same principle as using two stones. Its just a simple grit progression 🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 Microscope pics on the progression soon? And differences in sharpness and longevity?
I have watched two of your videos and so far you have thrown away my exact honing rod and my exact powered sharpener. Starting over.
Wicked outro! Also loved the info, I've always wondered about honing rods.
The first thing I notice after being a professional chef for over 20 years is that you don't use the steel correctly once. First of all, such sharpening steels are slightly magnetic at the tip and you place the blade there and then push the blade towards the handle. Secondly, in the kitchen we often use diamond-studded sharpening steels that remove material very finely. That's why it's important that every chef only sharpens his own knives and doesn't mess up the angle of his colleagues.
A fine ceramic rod would be somewhat nice, albeit I'd rather just use a strop over anything.
Was wondering about this. The one i use is diamond plated, just like the sharpening stones he seems to recommend.
Professional and experienced chef of almost 3 decades here. I have a fair level of expertise with knife sharpening.
Steel honing rods do not straighten a rolled edge, they do “comb” the burr-less metal edge so all metal fibers lay in the same direction. It removes metal shavings (the grey dust) as most are magnetic.
The speed of the honing is irrelevant if you have the right angle. You can do it fast if you know what you’re doing.
One step that helps is “stropping” as it uses the sharpening stone (or leather strap) to break off random burrs before honing.
I must say I can see in the video your angles are sometimes off with the honing. It can be seen and heard.
I've worked in numerous kitchens over many years, and I can 100% confirm that they do what they're supposed to.
No matter how well-sharpened the blade is, in a restaurant, that edge will wear down in a single work day, so instead of sharpening the knife every time you use it, you could realign the teeth, which is significantly faster, convenient, and easier to clean, when you have to prepare 7 different meals in 30 minutes
It's also a cheap alternative when a company has 7000+ knives and locations across the country
I'm halfway through the video so far. I will continue to watch the whole video, but I have some thoughts and questions to share first:
1. How come you did not roll the sharpened edge in a way that it would naturally be rolled? People that talk about the theoretical rolled edge are doing so in the context of cutting food on a cutting board (vigorous chopping of vegetables is thought to contribute mightily to a rolled edge).
2. While initial reverse strokes are often used to make sure that an edge is "unrolled", most respected knife manufacturers recommend finishing the honing with forward strokes. This is thought to align the edge.
3. Much like with sharpening, honing is often done with progressively lighter strokes as you come to the end of your progression.
4. Honing is for high quality steel that is rated below 61 or so HRC. If the steel is of poor quality, it will not respond very well and if the steel is too hard, it will not respond very well.
5. After sharpening my Victorinox I have been able to maintain a hair shaving edge for over a year; maintaining it only with a honing rod. I've done this multiple times over the years.
Can you make a tutorial on sharpening knives for push cuts
haha, the princess bride part slayed me, that was so perfect lol. I have never used a "honing steel" before, now I'm glad I never wasted the money on it.
I am really happy to find your channel. After spending the several hours on your channel I still find good tips to improve my sharpening skills. Keep up the good work!
been wanting a truly quality piece on this subject forever and outdoors55 delivers once again!
Why do you use trailing strokes on the rod but reverse it when demonstrating on the stone? I'd have thought that unrolling an edge requires pulling the knife-edge backwards along the surface?
Not sure if it makes a difference, but when I was in culinary school 15 years ago, we were taught to place the honing rod point down onto a table, and draw the knife downwards from the hilt to the tip of the rod with the knife edge facing the table. So essentially the knife would face the opposite direction to how you draw it across the rod. I feel it might make a marked difference in result, but im just assuming here.
For anyone with ears to listen, these videos on sharpening have been stellar. They are well reasoned and backed up with some ass kicking videogrpahy. Nice work, man! I'm headed to the garage tk get the DMT stone.
You should have tried with edge leading + zoomings to see if it does a difference. I always do edge leading on steel rods.
honing rods are super effctive, the only problem being that it seems that most north america tutorials show the wrong way of using it. European tutorials show the real use, you have to go forward the edge first like on a stone, not dragging it like he did on all the vid.
Im a butcher from Mexico, my grandpa was a butcher, then my dad is a butcher, and we have a lot of knives and long knives, here we cut the meat very thin like a cardboard or even more thin, and I can assure you that you are not using right that honing rod, you are a great sharpener I have a lot of respect for you, but this time I disagree because I had seen with my own eyes the difference between using the honing rod adequately and not
I picked up a Lansky diamond steel like 10 plus years ago and love it. Everytime I've tried using a non abrasive and everytime i used it i noticed the blade was never sharper. Now I know why. That it really cool!
I have never used a trailing movement with a knife steel, but leading with the edge like you do when sharpening. These instructions are from the steel manufacturer (Victorinox), so trailing passes with my knife steel would indeed be using it wrong. When done often, before each time using a knife, it does work to push back the sharpening interval. I don't have the time nor the will to sharpen with my water stones often.
The steel is definitely better than nothing, but nothing compared to a proper wetstone sharpening. But why do you move the knife with the edge? I move it towards the edge. I was taught that by my grandfather. Won't that to some degree reduce the burr from happening?
From my experience, you are 100% right. I think the reason for this myth is the lack of availability of wetstones in the old times in combination with education in professional cooking and butchering, knife sharpening is not included there. If you look at the books, they say „use honing rod, and if knife is dull, give it to service“. My father was a professional cook, and I never saw him really sharpen a knive on a wetstone or something, I doubt that he knew about wetstones at all. But his cooking skills were amazing, btw.
For me as a experienced, but not professional cook, knive sharpening is a side job, I only do it for having sharp knives, the food and the cooking is the star of the show. But I can order these amazing wetstones in one minute online, and then they ship them from Japan to Germany in short time. Our Oldies didn’t have that option.
Since I learned to sharpen my knifes on wetstone, I don’t need the honing rod anymore. But, I’m still using it sometimes, I give the knife some slaps on each side, so my family knows that something really good will come out of the kitchen.
I followed your advice and ordered the shaptons 1000/2000/5000 some weeks ago. I don’t do any test like cutting paper, I test my knifes on the subject (meat, vegetables and so on). They cut like laser beams, amazing.
Greetings from Germany, love your videos.
Thanks so much 🙏🙏👊
You should stroke forward with a steel and you have to have the blade at high enughangle that you are actually stroking the edge not the flanks like like it appeared you were doing. Steels doing several tings depending on the knife steel alloy and its hardness. A perfectly smooth polished steel will straighten a slightly rolled edge and will also work harden it (depending on alloy). A serrated steel can actually remove metal and can thus sharpen a softer knife if it is not too dull. In general knife steels are at their best tuning up a nearly sharp edge. Darken our knife bladw with a sharpie to make sure you are actually honing the edge and not the flanks of the edge. With practice ou can feel and hear it when you are actually working the edge and not the flanks.
Yes. He was also very clumsy with the steel. And he wants to speak like an expert on the topic.
Every time I've use a rod it's greatly improved the cutting ability of the knife. And I have two sharpening stones.
I had been thinking about this. At the best case, of one could push a rolled or deflected edge back to straight, it would likely cause work hardening on the base of the roll/deflection, increasing the chance of the edge chipping. Nor does it make sense to rub a sharpened edge against anything soft, since that won't do anything other than dull (ruin) the edge. Rubbing an edge against something harder is just sharpening the blade anyway. The only conclusion I could come to is that it only takes the removal of a few microns of material to return a dull edge to a sharp edge most of the time, with little effort.
Took your advice & got the sharpening you suggested in the description. My everyday, inexpensive kitchen knives cut 100% better for a quick sharpening. The good knives are sharpened with honing stones. It's just a project to break out stones, oil & cleaning towels. while cooking. I also use this on my cheap folding knives that open shipping boxes. My son also won't learn to sharpen his knives but uses your suggested sharpening steel. Now if I can get him to buy his own.
Thanks for the recommendation. Became a subscriber.
The videos you make are great and to the point. Tutorials on how to sharpen knives or calling out "knife fudd lore" - you make really great content. If only you had made these videos a decade ago, when i was still learning this stuff. It would have been so much easier. All the time spent on trial and error...
Thank you!
Do you have any plans on making a video about sharpening a razor? Maybe natural vs. artificial stones and the fudd lore about that?
Possibly!
this video is misinformation, he is not using the rod correctly. you must "slice down" the rod, running the knife edge upwards like he does will only create more burr.
I think "misinformation" is too harsh a word. I admit I was a bit surprised that Outdoors55 did not test/demonstrate that use, as he is usually 100% thorough. I am betting that it would make very little difference, either way. Also note that he specified the difference between honing steel and abrasive steel. That may account for your interpretation of 'misinformation'.
@@Mike-kr9ys no bro, this video is 100% uterly misinformation.
If he did it out of ignorance or malice, then it's not for me to judge.
@@jfonsecaesilva Check out the blog post Science of Sharp made about honing steels.
FINALLY..!!!!!! someone else with a little common sense.. I've been saying this exact thing for years and people thought I was stupid, yet they were sharpening/honing 100 times to my once...
Common sense isn't common.
Agreed.. @@0num4
Great video, very informative! I can't say how or when or for what reason honing steels became a thing, but I can with CERTAINTY say that for hundreds, if not thousands, of years people have known how to "properly" sharpen + polish bladed instruments and knew what a bur is, as well as a rolled edge, and the difference between them. They may not have known all the technical details of what happened at a microscopic scale, but the CERTAINLY knew on a macro scale what was going on and how to "properly" do things. To seriously assert otherwise is ignorance, born most likely from the viewpoint that because we are from the future we know better than those of the past.
You said "Great video, very informative!" and then proceeded to refuse to acknowledge any of the information shared in it 🥴
@@yodawgzgaming4416 one criticism or critique is not refusing the rest. I fully agree and accept that honing steels are essentially a waste of your money provided that you know what you're doing and have a "stone" on hand. Your comment is strange to say the least.
Thank you for another informative video. I assumed many of the principals you demonstrated here already. (we all know so much about assumptions) That said I started working as a machinist in the early '90s so have some understanding about metals and burrs. You just did all the work to prove me correct for never having used a "knife steel" in my life. After reading some of your comments by tradesmen with YEARS of knife work experience I would be interested to see how much of what the believe about the steels is real and how much of it is confirmation bias. I have worked with machinist that had 40 years experience that would fight and die to defend old habits that has always been but does almost nothing.
Excellent. The number of times I've had to explain the difference between 'sharpening' a knife and 'honing' a knife blade. Thanks.
your knife videos are awesome, please keep them coming. love your work
As a classically trained chef of over 20 years I can assure you that these work and you are in fact, just using it wrong.
Theres no confusion minus that on your end.
So what did he do wrong?
tell what he did wrong here?
@@justaboywithoutabrain3010 sure thing buddy:
1. Bad quality sharpening stick, he cheaped out.
2. Circular sharpening stick instead of oval shaped. Circular is shit.
3. Poor hardness of sharpening stick, opposite direction he cut into it like a loser, thats what he should have microscoped all those wasted 15:00 minutes.
4. It is not meant to bend edge back!
5. It is not meant to sharpen a completely dull knife.
6. Pure bad technique just like I had when I was 12 and holding it in my hand for the first time. Its visible he never used one, thus he is NOT A PROFESSIONAL KNIFE SHARPENER.
7. No proper testing of sharpness, a hair is his standard... Ridiculous.
8. The stick is meant to sharpen the knife just enough so it feels very sharp like a razor, without actually making the edge razor sharp.
9. Razor sharp edges are brittle hence not suitable for bone and meat, rather vegetable.
10. He is using the microscope wrong, or rather you only see half the picture from the side, but not the end/above.
11. Stones and machines make thin edges that run flat/straight to the top/edge.
12. Stick + much needed human error makes a circular edge that looks like a gothic window rather than a triangle. Gothic isnt as sharp, but maintains edge after bones and is easier to maintain.
13. Stones are meant to sharpen and forget for a while.
14. Stick is meant to resharpen after every few cuts/portions.
15. ...
16. Im not payed for teaching you :/
Overall:
Imagine being at a pig slaughter and you have to spend 2 minutes on "diamond stone" every 15 seconds because you just cut 2 thicker bones. Meanwhile I touch it with a stick for 5 seconds even if the knife is bloody and im back in business.
THIS GUY IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL KNIFE SHARPENER.
@@MapSyncSyncwrong direction, edge should be leading. It's also not made to unroll an edge, it's meant to keep the knife sharp by using it very regularly.
@@christofferrasmussen6533 Thanks.
Been in a meat factory before and those rods definitely do something because after you use it you knife cuts like it's brand new again after it was just cutting like it's blunt
Because its more surated vs actually sharp
If we could ask my Dad who sharpened dozens of razors and shop tools, or my uncle the butcher, they would have taught a class that excels anyone with a microscope. They knew how to get the edge back without removal of a bunch of metal. Dad used a leather strop for a good reason. I eventually saw the benefits of using the steels a lot and the stones a lot less. As long as the apex isn't badly damaged or extremely dull, the steels save time. They just have to be used properly, which was not described clearly IMHO. The improper way was described throughput the majority of the video. Later it was touched upon with bur removal.
I agree, as a former professional butcher I can say everybody at the slaughterhouses I worked at used steels mostly 'F Dick', a German steel with a red handle, I sharpen my knifes once a day on a bmp sharpeningmachine and maintained them with the steel during the day and that worked good for me and most of the other butchers.
@@samerson6691 You processed all day long, so once a day for you was more than most hunters process in a year. You know what you're talking about. I have some antique high carbon German steel blades that Dad gave me. They are incredible. I was just wondering what a bmp sharpener is?
@@preacherman9018 It should be TMP B-9 , a fantastic machine and I cut with Giesser 2505 wwl 13-15 cm blades, wery good knifes.
@@samerson6691 PS: Sorry, I went back and reread your post. I think you were talking about the knife Giesser with a 13-14 centimeter length, not a CM as in Crucible Metallurgy. 😆 I just read about those Giessers. Sounds like they hold an edge. I have a french set the Lord gave me as a gift. I forget the brand, maybe Henkel. Will have to check. My uncle was head butcher of A&P and used some antique high carbons ...Old Hickory, Green River and forgot the other brands right now.
@@preacherman9018 and that's what it's all about, you use your old knifes and honor your ancestors.
Cut your meat and do a great job.
I'm concerning about loosers who kill animals and dont treat them as food or living things. *uck you. 🍀
I like how you clearly demonstrate exactly how a honing steel doesn't actually work with footage and pictures and people in the comments still insist that you're wrong and reality is wrong and that honing steels work because they feel like they do.
They don't work to do things he tried to do with them -- that no one else ever used them for. They DO do what they were meant to do, but he never addresses that at all. So... guess it's a matter of choosing which reality to ignore. That of MILLIONS of people whose careers revolve around steeling their knives all day every day -- or of one UA-camr chasing red herrings and killing a strawman with a fancy lens. C'mon, dude! NO ONE rolls an edge like that. He created an unrealistic situation. And NO ONE who sharpens knives leaves the burr on. So the video is completely beside the point. It proved nothing.
Great content as usual. Thank you for all your informative and entertaining videos.
I'm a professional butcher and knife steels work I use my knife 10 hours a day 5 days, mostly six days a week, I don't have the time to perfectly remove the bur from my knife. The knife steel keeps my edge working. You don't need a knife to be that Sharp to work I've done a lot of butchery with a shaving Sharpe knife and there are tons of folks who can quickly steel a knife to success it just takes years to master. I'm not trying to be rude or Hate on you for being an "amateur" because you probably know more than me but I can promise a whole industry of people don't just use them for no reason.
Same here, he simply cant see himself. Its like a kid. The rod is great for the knives i use Everyday, almost all day. Dont blame the tool if you cant use it, find something that works for you
The point of the video went over your head.
It is amusing that you watched the video and apparently learned nothing. People who really sharpen knives know the difference.
The best part is that you could have bought a very high grit diamond stone or a strop instead of the stick and be much better off.
But after all, whatever floats your boat. I know we all are not the same and see different value in time and effort.
I'm 5:00 in to this video and already yelling at my monitor. Honing steels absolutely work and you rolling over the edge of a blade on a piece of copper is in no way a practical demonstration of what a kitchen knife is subjected to or what the steel does to keep the knife sharp. Nothing you're saying is technically wrong, but it's heavily disingenuous and the entire argument of this video so far is misleading. Seriously, you purposfully ruined the edge on a piece of copper, and then selected the WRONG TOOL to fix your intentional damage, and then you acted surprised. That would be like breaking a window and then showing that windex doesn't fix the situation. The point of a steel is to re-align the microscopic fingers or teeth of metal at the very edge which get slightly bent with normal use. The steel aligns these fine imperfections in the same direction between sharpenings allowing the blade to cut effectively. Imagine a saw with the teeth bent slightly to the side in random directions, versus all aligned, but at a microscopic level.
@@Kodack-ki2im should have watched the whole video
@OUTDOORS55 hahahah. Yes he should have
Nice video. You should try to use the straightening rod the other way :You hold the rod with your left hand and you work your knife by lightly slicing downward the rod toward the left hand.
Thank you Sir. I will brush the dust off my wet-stone in future and keep my 80 year old bone-handled carving knife and steel set - while not using the steel.
Bro why are you dragging that edge against the steel? You're doing it wrong. You did all this effort and used the hone the wrong way. You should be cutting the edge into the steel not dragging it across it. The edge goes first starting at the heel and ending at the tip.
I've done produce prep cutting cases and cases and cases of lettuce, peppers and onions day after day at multiple restaurants for years. Running your knife across the steel (blade first @ 15-20° angle) between each case definitely freshens the blade up and it is extremely noticeable.
You're talking a lot about rolled edges and whatnot but the reason I'm doing is to straighten out the fibers of the steel. The microscopic teeth at the edge of the blade get crisscrossed and running them against the steel will straighten them out giving you a more effective cutting edge.
This, also the reason it's magnetic, it's not to "pick up shavings" lol, there should be no shavings.