What grit stropping compound should you get?
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- Опубліковано 14 бер 2024
- PLEASE KEEP IN MIND!
If you are a new sharpener you are certainly not getting 100~ straight off the stone so you WILL see an improvement from using 6um after sharpening. For an example of how sharp this knife was please see the values I extracted from the Bess sharpness scale below.
250-350 = New High end cutlery edges
150-200 = Utility Razor blade
25-75 = double edge razor blade
Factory new Spyderco usually test around 140-170 for me.
Summary of my thoughts
6um is great for maintaining a dulling blade & mirroring.
Sub 1um is great for pushing for ultimate sharpness.
Finally a video that demonstrates this specifically! This has been bothering me for a while now, people seem to think 6 or 9 micron is going to improve their edges, then get disappointed when the results are not as expected. These results you are showing here, are exactly my findings as well, hence why I would always recommend 1 micron to a beginner. I personally have no use for anything below 1 micron when it comes to sharpening, just like you said.
@@lars43771 what about a 4 micron
Best video on this I've seen so far, great job
Thanks for the video!!! I finally understood so many stuff about this.
Awesome video!
This shows my experience with this as well! I can't believe so many recommend blasting that edge with 6um.
Very good demonstration and explanation. The conclusions are bang on and I think this is very useful info for beginners and experienced people that might have been misled by folklore.
It is too bad that you have to navigate through a lot of bad information that's out there to finally find good and useful info based on facts and real world experience rather than outdated or plain wrong "stories".
Thank you.
Very informative. Thank you for taking the time to produce this test.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for this, informative as always. This confirms my latest findings (I’m still very much perfecting my sharpening and stropping techniques). Thank you for my latest order, I’m really impressed with the strops and the compounds are now my benchmark for quality 🖖🏻
Thanks! Very kind words and I appreciate the support
Excellent video.
Glad you liked it!
Dude absolutely amazing video. This proves what my gut feeling has been all along but I was never able to prove it to myself. Thanks for just improving my mental health 😅. Great stuff Max!!
No problem, I'm glad you enjoyed it! The topic had been bugging me and my sharpening bros too. We keep reading total bs on the forums and I had to try and put some testing out there to fight it
No wonder! Thank you!
Super interessting!
Many THX for showing us your results and conclusion 👍
I've got the best results when I use the blue belgian (approx 6000 grit) without stropping.
BR from 🇦🇹
I bought some 6 micron gunny juice awhile back because 1 micron wasn't in stock. I was shocked when my knives were duller after using the 6. I thought I was off on my angle or something. I bought 1 micron stroppy stuff last week and have been really happy with the results. I really appreciate this video, and I will try the .25 micron next.
That's great news man! I'm glad you're having some success now you're experiencing the correct size compound for edge refinement 👍
Thank you for your video. I am glad that I have seen a very well known cuttlery store here in Brazil has been promoting through their videos that a coarse, cheap #400 stone with proper deburring finished on a strop loaded with 0.5micron cromium dioxide compound (cheap and widely known around here) is the best and most cost effective entry level solution for beginners before trying fancier stuff (if needed at all). As I understood from one of your final comments you would tend do agree. Also, leaving some serrated edge goes very well with Brazilians' most important get together activity, the barbecue.
Yes I would say that a 400 grit stone and a single strop would be the most cost effective entry method, however 400 grit stone can be very hard to minimise the burr on so it would require more skill, but very possible 👍
I like the 4 and 1 those are the only 2 i use and it works great for the things i use my knives for. I recommend your products to everyone that buys one of my strops.
That's great! 4um is another good alternative for edge maintenance in use between sharpening 👍
@@stroppystuff641 i use the 4 as a finisher on my satin toothy edges and as an edge maintainer and a 4,1,.25 for my mirror edges. I love your products and the only compound ill use.
Do you have a link to your strops, donal2912?
I been using 1 and .5 and i love my results .5 seams too just shine it up a little more then the 1 but the 1 seems too make the sharpest edges
@@joshbeck289 ive got the Venev f1200-f2000 grit stone now and with it you dont even need to strop. The f1200 is around 15,000-17,000 and the f2000 is 17,000-21,000 grit.
Superb video, thank you,, there is so much BS around about sharpening and stropping, it's a breath of fresh air to see actual results backed up by actual testing,,.. I've never used anything more aggressive than 2 micron, and after watching this I'm glad,, 👍,,
I love a toothy edge especially on my S110v blades, so I think I'll be investing in some 0.25 m compound soon,,
All the best my friend,, 👌
John. 👍
Thank you for all the support! I'm glad the video was helpful, good to see you're already on the right track too!
Thanks for your video. I am new to knife sharpening but I think I might know why a lot of people are using 6 micron compound, there is a video about stropping from Outdoor55 from a few months ago "What Does a Strop Actually do?...". between 3:30 and 7:00 in his video he says he is using a 6 micron diamond compound and shows how he gets an extremely sharp edge with just that and a 400 grit stone, with a stropping focus on microscopic burr removal after doing regular burr removal on the 400 grit stone. As a viewer interested in sharpening, I recommend seeing it if you haven't yet.
I was surprised that your tests showed a decrease in sharpness after stropping with 6 micron, and wonder if this could be because of ending on a higher grit stone before stropping? I've seen online that a 6 micron compound is similar to a 2000 grit stone, so it would make sense to me that the sharpness would decrease if you went from a 3000+ grit stone to a 6 micron compound.
You clearly make some very very sharp knives so I would like to hear your thoughts. Thank you again for the video and sharing your what you have learned and tested
EXCELLENT
2.22k subscribers 2.2k views UA-cam’s doing you pretty good mate
Really helpfull video on a topic within sharpening i find very interesting, thanks for making it.
Nice to see people still make such videos.
Some questions:
1. Whats your opinion on stropping on basswood/balsa?
2. How realistic is it to recover an edge with stropping? (Ofc not a damaged one, just abraded.) And does 6um vs 1um make a noticable difference?
For example in carving it would be neat to most efficiently maintain a decent sharpness over the period of it takes, without resharpening, which im alr doing but im wondering what um might be most efficient.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Stropping on bass/balsa is excellent. I prefer it over leather.
Stropping to maintain is very possible in my opinion, as long as you do it regularly. If you let the blade go dull then it's just faster to use stones. Carving is the perfect use case for strops, regularly stropping. 1um and 6um combo would be great in this instance
Thanks! This is very useful information. so where does something like tormek paste fit into this? I believe it's 3 micron. I would assume it's going to have similar results as the 6? I have many questions!?
Thanks for the support! I imagine the 3um will land somewhere between the 1 and the 6. Keep in mind the edge I had fresh off the stones was very sharp! So lots of jobs would have seen an improvement off the 6
Did you describe the stones you used before stropping ? Excellent video
I think it was 1200 jis electroplated diamond and spyderco UF to assist with deburr
Great video! What 1-3 stones/grits would you recommend for sharpening Elmax (DBK knife), and would you recommend finishing with the 1 micron? Thanks so much!
He and I would both recommend that you sell me that DBK knife and find another knife to enjoy. I, I mean YOU (O_o), would be much happier I think.
Thanks for the info bud. What spydie kitchen knife is that.
I think it's just called Spyderco Utility kitchen knife
Very helpfull video!
Glad it was helpful!
Would you recommend me to go with a 1um or something finer like a 0.5um or 0.25um compound? I'm looking for something to take that last bit of burr off and maintain a nice toothy edge. I don't have a Bess scale so I can't say exactly how sharp I can get, but I can get very nice hair popping edge off stones alone, but can't quite cut through a paper towel cleanly yet. Great content as always, cheers!
1um is always a good recommendation in my opinion, especially for someone asking the question, they're probably at the stage where they couldn't quite make the most out of 0.25 yet. Although 0.5 would also be a good option.
If you're unsure then get 1um, you won't be disappointed. Thanks for the support!
What stones did you use?
@@alfredopampanga9356 king 300, shapton pro 1000, and then the shapton pro 2000
Nice testing! One way you can improve the results is to take 5 measurements then throw out the high and low scores. That’s how I was taught.
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I thought I should have done that too but I didn't want the Reddit guys to think I was hiding results 😂
What is the stone grit that you've been sharpening the knife on, before stropping ? And also what JIS grit would you compare these microns to ?
1200 electroplated and then UF deburr
Thanks for this video, this topic need to be clarified for beginners like me!
Does it depend of the steel?
I always struggle to get a clean edge on coarse stones with 110V an S90V… Can you deburr 110V or S90V on the stone on a coarse grit? Minimise burr on the stone and make a progression 6-1-0.25 is viable option?
Pressure is key with every steel, but especially with S90V and s110v. I can get a completely deburred, hair popping edge with either straight off a 200 grit stone.
Edit: you should never rely on strops for deburring. All deburring should be done on the stones.
@@CNYKnifeNut Yeah i know that, but with 110V and S90V i never achieve that clean hair splitting edge.. The majority of the burr is gone on the stone but i can clearly feel there is something still here… Maybe the root of the burr? Dont know…
Coarser stones are harder to deburr, it's much easier to deburr on a finer stone, something that cuts slow enough that you don't accidentally create a new burr. That sounds like a fine progression. Nothing wrong with using a strop to help you deburr
@@4d4mkocould you have a burnt edge or perhaps a little more retained austenite? What brands are you using? Iirc Spyderco is the only one using s110v, most s110v from Spyderco is 61-62rc, older models may have been burned more than the newer models. For s90v spyderco usa maxed out at 59rc and only in the past few years are now 60 to 63. A burnt edge may cause debu r issues with s90v until at least 3 sharpenings in.
@@tacticalcenter8658 yes Spyderco and Maxace, i have a custom Opinel in S90V at 62-63HRC it is a little bit better but still far away of M390 for example of what i can achieve in term of sharpness…
Why are you doing uneven passes? Like im watching you do 8 strokes on one side, then 4 on the other, then 1, then a few on the other. Wouldn't you get better results doing even strokes per side or alternernating strokes?
Figures , I JUST PAID 40.00 FOR 6 MICRON Because what yoi just said i seen everyone using 6 , Grrrr So do you think the 6 mic would be better on harder steel like a 62 R ? I'm new sharpening with a strop , GREAT video for me , Thx You
If you're new 6um will be great, I think people like 6um because they're bad at burr minimisation on the stones and 6um really helps them.
I use the green Veritas stropping compound. (Almost all of my knives are softer carbon steel knives.) They claim that the grit size is either .5 or 1 micron. (I can't recall which.) When I come off the 6000 grit waterstone, I don't have a mirror polish, but after a little while on the green stuff it develops a mirror polish after a couple of passes. When you strop. it doesn't leave much steel on the strop, does it? I keep meaning to try your stroppy stuff, but every time I look at your site, you're always out of whatever the grade I'm looking for is. I will get around to it though. This is real food for thought. I guess I'll pick up both 6 micron and 1 micron because I can see using both.
Hmm the strops can load with steel quite fast depending on how much diamond you loaded them with and how large your bevel is, but I manage to strop a lot before they're fully loaded with steel. If you're in the US Gritomatic stocks them too btw. Thanks for the support!
Great video!
I have a question/suggestion:
For my use in day to day EDC, something like 150 bess is absolutely fine. What has given me the best results in the past were CroOx, mother's billet paste, and 12 micron diamond. But those "best results" are situational to use; CroOx is best for a comfortable shave that's not too aggressive (feels smooth and soft, the opposite of toothy), Mother's Billet made for fine HHT curling results yet aggressive edges that were great for potato chip bags but terrible for shaving as it'd bite into the skin, and 12 micron diamond seems nice for bringing back an edge from dull and quick deburring. My experience with diamond stropping compounds is pretty limited, I've tried a bunch of pastes and found them completely disappointing until I tried some 12 micron stuff. For EDC/Outdoors use 12 micron gives me a very serviceable edge and seems to produce that edge from dull pretty quick! Now the question: Does grit size matter in regards to edge restoration speed? I'd surely opt for .25 micron if it worked just as fast as 12 micron. I don't know if it's grit size or density of abrasive that matters more. On my previous stropping compounds I've used (croox, mother's billet, mother's mag, a bunch of disappointing pastes that did nothing, extra fine valve grinding compound, etc.) it doesn't seem to matter until it's too coarse to produce a good edge. Thanks!
So if I was planning to stop on the stones at around 6k would I be able to get away with just getting a 3M,2/1.5M and a .5M or are those too high or grit progressions
Stopping at 6k a 0.5 um compound would be fine
@@stroppystuff641 sweet thank you for the response man, hope you have a good one!
Thank you for this video after chatting with me yesterday, I appreciate it bery much.
What does 1um work out as as grit level?
Thanks again,
John.
1 micron would be about 12000 jis
@@lars43771 thank you, how does jis compare to grit?
@@JohnJez There are different grit classification systems. Japanese manufacturers like Naniwa and Shapton use Jis. Venev uses Fepa. You can find conversion tables online. That should get you in the ballpark.
@@lars43771 May sound like a silly question, have you got any recommendation of which website for the conversation tables, I've been trying to research but it seems to be confusing me more to be truthful.
@@JohnJezthe Gritomatic chart has the most info, it can be a bit hard to look at however. The fine-tools one is simpler with less standards.
I just recently picked up a Hapstone RS with some high dollar venevs. If i stop at 1200 which microns would you suggest for some nice mirrors?
1um will get you a nice mirror under indoor lighting. 0.25 will get a near flawless mirror under sunlight. I would first try going from f1200 to 1um and if that takes too long then add 4um to the mix.
So at most you want 4,1 and 0.25 and at least you want 1um
@stroppystuff641 appreciate you a ton, you're the best ❤️
@@Hunnisloot Thanks for the support!
What compound would you recommend for daily strop to maintain sharpness between sharpenings?
Depends how much you let your blade dull during use. 1um for me, maybe 6um for those guys who let their blades dull past the point of being able to cut paper etc
@@stroppystuff641 Cool, thanks! Will go with 1 then. I've got a good set of sharpening stones (up to 10k grit) for woodworking already, was just looking for a strop to have in the kitchen to be able to maintain the knife without having to get out the stones.
@@michael.knight good choice!
Do you think going from off the stone and progressing through 6, 1, 0.25 would make a difference, or would it just be a waste of time?
It depends how well you finish off the stone. Personally I skip 6 and use that for maintenance. Some people don't finish well on the stone and would benefit from 6
@@stroppystuff641I never really thought of it like that before. I've seen people explain it but I never really made as much sense as it did just now. Maybe it's kind of a hard topic to explain but this time it really made sense.
What grit stone did the knife come off ? Reason for asking is that I am wanting to buy some of your diamond stroping compound and been trying to research which one, ask 5 people and you will get 5 different answers as to what micron diamond compound to buy, in my case I would be coming off 1000 grit or a medium spyderco benchstone, I know you love the 1 micron stuff but is that not a massive jump in "grit" when coming off a relatively low grit stone, I am still learning and at the moment am just using the green waxy stuff but wanting to try some diamond compounds, suppose the fact the 1 micron 5ml bottles being out of stock tells its own story, was thinking about 4 micron cheers.
A lot of this stuff is personal preference and technique, however it is impossible for 6um to get an edge as sharp as 1um could.
The Spyderco medium is quite a slow stone, so it's quite good to deburr on. I wouldn't worry about any jump in grits in this situation and I would still suggest the 1um. Worse case scenario you need to do a couple more passes on the 1um to make up for finishing on a 1k stone.
I'll have more stock early next week if that changes your mind btw.
@@stroppystuff641 Thanks taking the time to reply, thats one bottle of your 1 micron stuff sold when it comes in next week, the other stone I have is the trend 300/1000, dont like the 1000 grit side and think it has some courser grit contamination so mainly use the syderco stone, are you a believer in strop progressions ?
@@mcbombadier I forgot to mention I deburred it on a Spyderco UF but I sharpened it on a 1200jis plate.
I think a strop progression can be good depending on your technique and skill. 1 & 0.25 um will be best for most people IMO for edge refinement.
Some people will be fine jumping straight to 0.25um.
@@stroppystuff641 Think will take a punt on the 1 micron compound, stropping is something I find quite satisfying and therapeutic so a few more passes never hurt anyone, next week it's back in stock you say? Cheers
@@mcbombadier yeah Monday after I finish bottling and labelling
I think the biggest flaw here is not saying what grit the finishing stones were. Alex's recommendation for beginners was 400 or 320 grit diamond plate and 6 micron strop, a decent combo and 1 micron might be overreaching for beginners that can't get the burr deleted on that stone. Sure, a pro can probably make a 36 grit sandpaper blade shave, by avoiding all burrs, but a beginner likely cant.
I deburred on a Spyderco UF which I mentioned in the video, but I talk quite a lot so I can see why you missed it, I need to get better with that. A high concentration 1um will absolutely blast off burr fragments in no time, I've put a lot of time into testing the products I sell and so has my team of testers.
But as I mentioned in the description I do think that beginners will see an improvement by using 6um compared to just using the stone, however they're handicapping sharpness when they could just use 1um which is more than capable of cleaning up the edge.
What if I only have one strop. Which should I use.
1um as a beginner is the best bet, regardless of which stone you finished with.
Any 0.5 micron? Thanks *Edit: Found it!
Yeah 0.5 is great, very good option to go to straight off the stone if you minimise burr well
Sup dude any update about the vitrified stones?
Turnaround on prototypes takes a long time unfortunately. Still a couple months until my next batch is ready :(
@@stroppystuff641 no worries pretty excited about it since you price things accordingly
@@S7ORM3Xthey are worth looking forward to! My impressions on the prototypes are very high.
What grit stone are you coming off of? Of course an edge stropped 6um compound will be less sharp when coming from a 4000+ grit stone while an edge stropped with a 1um compound will be sharper coming from a 4000+ grit stone.
1200 JIS Atoma
Hah. I’ve not been much for mirrors and found starting at 1um worked best for me and could never explain why. Shows I’m not crazy. I never use a tester and just go by feel so not very scientific
To be fair, I think you're talking at cross purposes here. Jared was talking about the best one-and-done compound for a novice freehand sharpener looking to get a decent working edge. That's going to be someone who is not going to be able to come close to 100 BESS straight off the stone(s). More likely the straight-from-stone score would be closer to 300 BESS. In that case, going straight to 1 micron would be a bit of stretch. Going to 6 micron might allow the sharpener to get the score down into the 150-200 BESS range pretty quickly (better than factory in most cases), and I think that a lot of folks who aren't pursuing ultimate sharpness are going to be happy with that.
I'm not talking about Jerad, he's a bro and I agree with most of what he says. Also I agree with your comment, thanks for the feedback. It's hard for me to convey everything in a video because I'm not very good at the whole content creation thing 😂
Okay, my bad. But Jared is the only one I'm aware of who has made several videos recommending 6 and 9 micron compounds. I suppose he's not the only one.@@stroppystuff641
@@BladeLabMiamiI think it’s Outdoors55
@@lars43771 It prob is but he was using a double sided stone I think up to 1000 grit before progressing to 6 micron and 1 micron strop he wasnt progressing through multiple stones first .
@@davidpyper82 you still don’t need 6 micron to deburr your edges off a 1000 grit stone however. If you can’t do it with one micron, you can’t do it with 6 either. You need to go back to the stone and try again. It also defeats the purpose on finishing off a coarse stone in my opinion. All that aggressiveness you create in draw cuts, will be stropped right off with 6um compound.
This is because the youtubers are telling everyone to get 6um. Nothing more nothing less.
If I wanted only 1 strop compound which micron would you go with. I Work up to a 1200 grit diamond stone and finish on a Spyderco fine ceramic.
@@Aa-ron22 1um for most people. More advanced sharpeners would do well at 0.5 or 0.25
@@stroppystuff641 which side of the strap would you recommend for your compound the rough side of the leather or the smooth
@@Aa-ron22 smooth side (grain side) is my favourite. It absorbs less compound, is smoother for a nicer draw, less chance of edge roll over on the fibers etc. however you can get satisfactory edges off coarse side too (flesh side)
@@stroppystuff641 I would buy your strop, but it’s never in stock lol
@@Aa-ron22 sorry I can't make them fast enough 😂 I make a batch of 20 and they all sell out on the same day. I bought 2 new hides of leather so I'll be making more this week
I'd like to watch the video being cited.
I don't want to have his 300k + subs come and burn me 😂
@@stroppystuff641 well, I dont follow him, so must not be that good at all.
Just found it. Neeves knives live a few days ago. I think he was saying if you use course like 400grit give or take, to use a 6 micron. I dont follow him.
@@tacticalcenter8658 not Neeves
@@stroppystuff641 oh interesting. Cause he recommended the same grits you mentioned here. Hmm... Then I dunno.
Boy, it looks like with the 6 micron compound you are pushing harder and at a higher angle than the 1 micron compound. Maybe it’s just me.
It's just you, I have no reason to fake these results
I disagree with these very subjective and quite biased conclusions here. but on a side note, stropping in general and especially with much courser grits than newbs would suspect is not just a common crutch of many folks and especially the wanna be gurus that newbs worship, even though you never see these gurus show results straight off the stones... Stropping on course grits is basically their hidden weapon they dont tell the newbs about. Id love to see a so and so video where he doesn't need to erroneously use 30 different stones just to sharpen a not very dull knife, then needs 800 different strops to get the edge hair whittling. i've never seen the guy show his results off the stones even once and I imagine that because they're not very good, and based on what I see in the videos in terms of Teknique that isn't a surprise. All these kiddies out here think you need 30 stone progressions just to get a tool sharp. the razor bros are even worse than the knife bros honestly.
Who are you talking about? This feels very specific
Outdoors55 has a dedicated video with just one stone and a strop, and in some other videos he does it too.
Idk looks like ypur overstepping to me. Also I've seen a channel that showed to strop non burr side first. Counter intuitive I know but true. He's an Australian guy here on yt
What would you consider is over stropping?
As you could see from the video more stropping continued to increase the sharpness of the blade, displayed by the lower bess score.
I’m assuming you are talking about Vadim, the owner of Knife Grinders Australia. In his last video’s before he passed on, he stopped doing this. He figured out it did not make a difference.
@@lars43771That's super sad he passed. He instilled a lot of knowledge to the sharpness world though. Cliff Stamp and Vadim both were no-nonsense sharpeners.
Well as a chef of 30+ years that has been sharpening knives most of my adult life I can tell you that anyone that says that a 6 micron loaded strop will dull an edge clearly doesn't know what they're talking about, a 6 micron edge is approx 3300 grit equivalent which is sharper than most knives on the market. I know you said that you've been stropping for a long time and don't wish to call you out on your technique but your' stropping is terrible (sorry but it is). It's alright wanting to get the lowest possible number but the lower the number the less that edge is going to hold up for a practical purpose (ie filleting meat/fish) and that is speaking from experience. Finally I understand that using a 0.25 micron stropping is all the rage but with that edge you'll get halfway through a task in the kitchen before the edge would require stropping again to get the edge back.
No edge beyond 3000 grit is going to perform in the real world other than showing off, if I'm brutally honest 800-1000 grit (approx 20 micron) edge will consistently outlast and still perform better in the field. I understand this is your business and this "Holy Grail" of edge sharpness is what you sell but if you're going to get people to test for you they need to be testing for something other than an aesthetic mirror edge.
Anyway all the best from Yorkshire from someone that does use a sharp edge all day everyday.
Sorry man but you're talking nonsense. I appreciate the feedback and opinion on the video but it's so wrong I don't know where to start.
1. I said 6um strop will dull a stone finished edge sharpened by someone who doesn't suck. it's very likely a 6um strop would actually improve your edge. This edge was rated between double edge razor and utility razor fresh off the stones. You're probably struggling to get baseball bat sharpness.
2. Comparison of stropping compound to "grit" is nonsense. You've not specified the grit rating or substrate. 3300 what?? JIS, mesh, ANSI, fepa-f?????
3. I get HHT5 with my "bad stropping technique"
4. after stropping all the burr off, a 0.25um finished edge will not degrade any faster than a 6um finished edge. Neither of them have tooth remaining anyway so no mechanical advantage.
If you're going to come in and tell someone your truth, at least make sure it's partly correct.
Saw the same thing. The main point of stopping is not to sharpen the blade further but to clean up the edge and eliminate the burr. A good clean edge in properly alloyed steel will last quite a while.