Clarifying my GOAT stance...
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2023
- In answering a recent Mailbag comment, I left more questions than answers. So I'm back to discuss Rafael Nadal's claim that Novak Djokovic would have been "frustrated" if he didn't win the slam race. And I clarify my opinion on the generations of Rod Laver, Bjorn Borg and Pete Sampras. In this video, you'll get a definitive statement on my current stance on GOAT status. Plus, I'll address media bias.
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Shanghai Preview and Beijing content coming in the next couple days! Just trying to figure out how to time everything right with this unconventional mid-week final.
Very true Gill , you are probably one of the more objective tennis commentators out there . Keep up a good work
What you are seing I love Fed not Novak.😅
It was so hard for you to say to obvious..... Weak
Nadal literally destroyed his body to get to 22. Novak was willing to skip grand slams to not get the vaccine. Who is the more frustrated here?
Pretty obvious. Dopal of course
You didn't watch the video, the fact that Nadal wants to give 100% is not related to wanting records. He's processed oriented as Gill said, it's about giving his best. I'm a huge novak fan, but he has always said he chases records, it's not news. They have different motivations, but they both gave it their all and this whole debate is useless.
@@gdultim848 if hes that process oriented y dont he skips many masters compared to slams
@@shreerambhat1442 he skipped many masters so I don't know what you're talking about.
The fact is while Federer was holding all the records he was considered to be undisputed GOAT. Now that Novak is holding them there is a need to discuss al sort of things like playing style, impact on tennis, generational differences, different eras etc. It is disguisting.
Back in time tennis record was broken from Roger Federer and he overpass SAMPRAS record... everyone agree that he is tennis GOAT position... today NOVAK DJOKOVIC is UNDISPUTED tennis GOAT and FEDAL fans talking about older tennis generation 😂😂😂😂😂😂
And they say we are toxic fans 😂😂😂
None of the 3 legends spoke about goat, only the press and fans without giving an exact definition of this term. For some it is a number, for others a recognition of the public, for others an attitude, for others a style of play.....There are several kind of goat depending on each one, wanting to attribute this term to a number is like saying the biggest cake is the best, ridiculous.
@@cdauga ridiculous or not ridiculous NOVAK DJOKOVIC is unstoppable force and still counting.. UNDISPUTED tennis GOAT 400 40 25
You're right he got the biggest numbers, doesn't mean anything else.
Both Federer and Nadal didn't congratulate Djokovic for his 24th Grand Slam title in the US Open, which caught the attention of many people in social media and news outlets.
Roger had just congratulated Coco Gauff for her title, so he deliberately chose not to say anything about Novak's victory. Nadal also avoided it, and in his Movistar interview showed why: he was salty about losing the Grand Slam race and could not just congratulate his competitor Nole on such a great achievement, instead claiming it was an "obsession" in contrast to his "healthy" approach.
Just as every mistake by Novak was pointed out by the media, we should also criticize when Roger or Rafa make mistakes or questionable statements, if we're being honest.
They already congratulated him after 23. Do they need to do it every time and after every bowel movement ? Novak fans treat him like a god which is very scary
I feel sorry for FEDAL pain 😂😂😂.. they stolen from NOVAK so many weeks number one and grand slam title .. they try really hard to stop him.. ejected from U.S. open.. cancelled Wimbledon 2020.. and erase points from Wimbledon 2021... deported from Australia 2022.. but nothing help 😂😂NOVAK DJOKOVIC is unstoppable force and still counting 400 40 25 GOAT position sealed
@@yussepig6629 Nope, not after every bowel movement. Only after every Grand Slam win, since they congratulate GS winners.
@@kilepesic4027 Coco is a part of Federer's sports agency which makes her. part of his 'team' in a way. It was unexpected for her to win. She wasn't the favorite. However he picked Novak to win the US Open. I think acknowledging Djokovic becoming the alltime GS leader when he won the French this year was fine. But I know that some Novak fans will expect it after every GS win. Do you have reciepts of Novak commenting on every GS win that Federer had when he was ahead? I doubt it. At this point why not focus on the positive which is Novak's achievement. It seems that some of Novak's fans aren't at peace and are always looking for problems where there isn't any. Enjoy this historic moment of The GOAT instead of focusing on what you feel is a slight. Just my opinion.
@@yussepig6629 Yes, in the sports world you congrats to your sports college whenever he achieves something great. It means being cultured and polite. But sometimes jealousy and envy destroy decency.
If Novak is so obsessed with GS titles, why was he willing to give up GS titles rather than taking the Covid vaccine?
Also it's not just GS titles, it's big titles generally, his best (2015) season, it's weeks at number 1 and the calibre of player he beat along the way.
Improvements in sport science and the passage of time makes it hard/impossible to compare across generations but we can certainly compare Novak to Nadal who's less than 12 months older.
Anyone who was happy to crown Nadal the goat at any point but not Novak is not worth taking seriously at all.
True
True
Because he holds to the principle that he is master of his own body, and makes his own decisions about his health, particularly as an elite athlete. He has sacrificed a lot to hold to that principle.
And why would Nadal play under the pain blocking shots if he doesn't care that much?
And why would we believe Nadal or Novak saying, maybe it's better to look what they do?
That’s a really powerful point. Nadal pushes through crippling injury to play but Novak places respect for his body above even slams he’s statistically very likely to win. That doesn’t make him more “intense” about tennis or being GOAT.
Nadal is really coming off bitter & like sour grapes.
Yep, I agree with that comment: GOAT label was invented for Federer... when he lost it, it became a "debate.". 😅
I think the reason why Novak fans watch you is that you talk about tennis without bias.we love someone to analyse it. The tennis media is so awful that we only expect them to at least respect Djokovic. You read dailymail , mike dickson write : its sad that djokovic at 36 is the best . Which sport treat its best like this with hate?
Did he really say that in Dailymail? That sounds profoundly awful. Djokovic is the king, whether they like it or not
Mike dickson is just vile with a capital D!
But some of you Novak fans are truly lunatics. I mean, have you seen tennis twitter? People there don’t live in the real world and it’s among the most toxic fandoms I’ve ever seen. And I like novak
Ok but it's the dailymail though...
@@Smileater , Yes he did, and Spanish after Novak lost Wimbledon to Alcaraz,it was gross. So you can see humanity declining .
thank you Gill. this video is why you’re on track to be among the GOATs in sports media. uncommonly clear, fair and responsive.
Really like and agree with this comment about Gill. The very best.
Thank you Gill. Novak certainly is the standard of tennis excellence. I love Novak’s holistic approach to tennis.
He is a genetic superior athlete that doesn’t come around that often. How privileged we are to watch him and listen to him and have him among us.
I have pure respect for Novak, his achievements and his principles.
And a fighter. Novak has had to find solutions time after time. One of the important reasons he is so dominant is because of his anti-inflammatory diet which is overlooked. It allows him to compete at a much older age compared to his youthful rivals. To be willing to change his whole life approach including diet is a testament to his intelligence. Which in my opinion it is intelligence that is his greatest attribute.
Actually, we don't watch you in Serbia because of Novak but because your analyses are spot on, you know tennis and you are intelligent and well-spoken. We probably did start to watch you through "Big Three" mainly but right now it is whole different story, we watch you for tennis. Same with, for example, people watching Steve Flink (although you still need to catch up with him) and some other guys. Just don't downplay your analyses, they are very good. About Djokovic or not, in Serbia or not.
I second that!
You expect anyone to believe that Serbians are not following Djoko because he is Serbian? You have a career in comedy awaiting
@@BOZ_11fedalista still coping 😂😂😂
@@BOZ_11it's like I love Usain Bolt because he's Jamaican and my parents are Jamaican. I like Errol Spence the boxer because he's half Jamaican. That's normal and expected.
I was extremely happy for Jude Bellingham because he's from my hometown of Birmingham UK.
@@MrBjorn6 I know, national pride comes into it. These particular Serbians will lie and tell you it's not. They will all disappear once Djoko retires.
I look at it this way. Rod Laver has an arena with his name on it. He was the GOAT of his era and is still considered the greatest player from his generation. Nothing will ever change that. Today Novak is the undisputed tennis GOAT by virtually every metric under the sun, and if we can’t even acknowledge that, then tennis records are nothing more than salad dressing with little incentive for current or future players to chase anything. Right now Novak is the standard for excellence. That is also his biggest disadvantage. He does not know what he is chasing. He is creating his own path, much like the precious goats before him.
Hopefully you consider Margaret Court goat too.
@@whisper2441Ofc not, different sports.
@@zvikazvizdic4313 Huh? It's the exact same sport don't be so silly lol : ) Both 'sports' have the same rules, scoring system, equipment, same 4 grand slam tournaments etc etc. Do people who post here even know what tennis is? Jeesus.
You are not too smart,are you?@@whisper2441
@whisper2441 not different sport but definitely different divisions. It is like comparing a lightweight boxer with a heavyweight one.
The fact that Novak was able to surpass the records of Roger and Rafa while both of them still played the game is in itself testament to his domination in this past decade. The bias is real and it will never go away. But in a couple of years when Novak retires, he'll make sure that no one dares to debate on this topic ever again!
Rafa was'nt playing when Novak won the French and he was out for around 4 years because of injuries. Novak is TBE but his biased fans are far behind him.
@@sybersecurity277with that logic, should we not doing Rafa winning AO because Novak didn't play?
@@ogivignjevic Nadal missed much more Slams. However 2 slams on clay instead of hard and 1/3 of the Master 1000 would have done it, too ;)
@@sybersecurity277 sour grapes again. Nadal is a clay specialist. Novak is a better tennis player overall.
@@ankurshukla6399 No "saur grapes", just facts. 14:3 in Clay slams. The rest is maths. With Nadal beeing in 5 AO finals, 5 Wimbledon finals and winning 4 US Opens the "just good clay" version isn't true either. He had more success in Wimbledon than Stefan Edberg. No problem with Nole winning the race, hope he plays for another 5 years and wins 30.
The interviewer NEVER metioned Novak. So its not crazy that people are upset about the CLEAR slight by Nadal. Its not the first time that he has done this either. He is clearly sour ajd for a guy that is not even in the number 2 spot, its just hilarious.
Nadal is pretty clearly ahead of Federer. 24-16 H2H, 22-20 slams. Don’t let your saltiness get in the way of facts
@@SJ-di5zu No, He is lot behind Federer ( What about weeks at world no.1 and ATP finals)
@@SJ-di5zu Dont let your saltyness get in the way of the fact that Nadal is a clay specialist. I am a Novak fan so I could not care less who is better between fedal but the fact is that Nadal has no where near the weeks at #1 and has 0 ATP finals. That he because he is not consistent and cant beat the best players off of clay. 70% of Nadals accomplishments came on clay, an accomplishment that gets diminished being that Novak has been his only competition due to the fact that players hate clay. Federer is better than Nadal and it isnt close. Even Sampras has a case over Nadal. Nadal is the greatest clay player ever and that is it.
@@SJ-di5zulet's pour that salt weakdal fan 😆😆😆
@JoeV03 Nadal literally had a better h2h than novak at the US Open and has multiple US Open AUS Open and Wimbledon titles, yet he's a "clay specialist"?
I would just love that Novak comes to a conference and responds to these Rafa words like this: "I live it in a more intense way? I don't remember me chasing 23rd slam in USO instead of being with my wife who was in a dangerous labor 1500Km away. Nor do I remember numbing my foot with painkillers to win 22nd slam. I do remember choosing not to participate in 2 or more slams but instead go with my principles..."
Where was novak when his wife gave birth u stupid ?? Guess what he was playing a tournament somewhere in the world so say the same words for your guy to or else u are just proving that u are nothing but a hater.
@@rupakdewangan8117 Not an argument. Dopal has destroyed his body to beat Novak and it still wasn't enough.
I would love too but Novak is too gracious to make such salty comment, especially towards Nadal that he respects tremendously
Unfortunately the reciprocal is not true
REALLY! Have you forgotten how Djokovic tried to get into Australia without a vaccine despite CLAIMING he was prepared to miss big tournaments! Behave! You Djokovic fans constant rewrite history!
@@DaveOwen-vn6ie you are going to that road again? :) he had a valid exemption and was convinced by AO that he had the right to enter and participate. He was ready to miss like he missed many tournaments before and after that. Time has passed and we see now how stupid and unfair was that decision made by their minister.
I dont agree that Novak is goal oriented. He could be more goal oriented than Rafa, but him missing out on multiple Grand Slams because of vaccine shows that he is not fully goal oriented.
No, it just means that he has several goals which happened to collide this time.
They are all GOAT oriented in their dreams and ambitions. Not just three of them, all of them. The only difference is that three of them have a case, others don't. It is hilarious to believe that great champions don't have a drive to win more than anybody else, to break records and end up in history books, it is part of their champions identity. These stories on different criteria for the GOAT "position" are pointless, they appeared only after it became clear that Novak will have the best numbers and tennis mainstream doesn't like that. It happened before, not on this scale but nonetheless, when Lendl was overcoming with numbers The Great Story about Borg and Mac rivalry. It is just so stupid and not necessary, sport should always embrace its biggest champions.
Gill said it right in one very simple sentence - it is either Novak or GOAT doesn't exist. I agree with that. For a sport that evolve so much in so many aspects GOAT debate is futile so I incline to think that GOAT can't be accurately measured game wise. In case we look at it through sheer numbers it is Novak. There is no doubt in that because numbers tell their story outside of any human debate based on preferences, sympathies and hyperbolic arguments. It is that simple.
He might be goal oriented and has principles at the same time. They are all goal oriented otherwise they wouldn't work so hard to achieve them in tennis.
@@UrosKovacevic91 And him returning to the game despite initial impulse to end it all, shows that he is goal oriented still and/or doesn't give up easily. And that he loves a game a lot, cause the reason he returned was he realized he loved the game too much. All that proves that he is also process oriented and goal oriented...
Your argument is not logical! Djoker made it his goal to win the most slams, but was prepared to lose this race over the covid vaccine because he felt strongly enough that he would not take it no matter what. How many slams did he actually miss out on being able to play because of it? Two slams is the answer. As things turned out Djoker was denied the chance to play in Australia last year where he was sensationally deported & the 2022 US Open. Nevertheless, for much of Djoker's career he wanted to win the slam race & was open about it. This isn't a crime by the way. Rafa admitted that it was his goal to break Roger's slam record too, but suffered so many injuries in his career that I suspect that it shaped his more philosophical attitude to the race. In the end Rafa was just happy to compete & play tennis. How many slams has Rafa missed winning due to injury over the years? Rafa could not play, or had to withdraw from close to 16 slams over the course of his career dating back to 2004. Rafa has lost this race due to injury not because he is an inferior player. Djoker has been way more fortunate with injury because he has looked after his body so well & he doesn't suffer from Mueller Weiss syndrome like Rafa, but he also won this race because Generation next have just not being good enough to beat him in slams, except for Carlos Alcaraz. In a sense it is irrelevant why Djoker won this race & obviously one of the reasons he did win it was because he is tremendous player who wanted this record & he has earned it.
Hi , nadal took a dig at novak , he didnt say he is the best , correct translation is this:
Rafa:"I'm not frustrated for a simple reason:always tried my best to get the best possible result"
JMC:"U can't be frustrated with 22 GS?"
Rafa:"It's possible.E.g.,Novak lives this in a more intense way & would've likely been frustrated if he hadn't got it & maybe that's why he's got it"
This is correct. And I’m frustrated to see several commentators don’t spend the time to watch the interview and see what happened. Nadal brought Djokovic to his comment out of nowhere which clearly seem to be an attempt to put Djoko down. Bringing Djokovic was totally not necessary and not even asked. Djoko lives rent free in Nadals mind, clearly.
@thebluecap Novak is literally Rafa's biggest rival in the Goat race, and the question was asked about GS, so including Novak in it is not a surprise that should have him shunned by the tennis community
@@malekat8539 I disagree that Nadal had to talk about Djokovic. The interviewer said: “you cannot be frustrated with 22 GS”. Normal answer would be: “Yes, I’m not frustrated but proud on what I achieved”. That would end the question.
@@thebluecap The response Rafa made was nothing to be going head over heels for. He said he wasn't and used Novak as an example. Nothing more. Nothing less
@@malekat8539 You trust Rafa’s intentions were good and I think they were not and that’s alright, I’m fine with disagreeing, we all can interpret the situation in different ways. 😊
Gill Is the undisputed 🐐 of tennis analysts 👍
Do you think you could break up tennis history in the open era into fairly distinct periods based on 🎾 ttechnology, courts, things like that, and then come up with 🐐 for each?
Jason at Tennis unleashed is better
@@jonathanstirling7167 I think we should count how many majors they each have and weeks at number 1.. 🤣🤣
My issue with this debate has always been that where was this discussion when Federer was at the top surpassing Sampras, and when Nadal surpassed him last year? Exactly IT DIDN'T EXIST. They all crowned them the GOAT without question based on GS numbers only. BUT NOW....NOW that the Djokorabbit has the gun it's about "influence" and "popularity" "my GOAT" "3 GOATS" "what about women?" and other excuses. That's why the novak fans start to call them out. It's complete BS and a tired attempt to muddy what was straightforward from day 1. You get the slams you're the GOAT - simple. Nobody said ppl had to like the guy, just accept REALITY.
I love this. Only thing which felt left out was Nadal's resentment of Novak. Nadal wasn't all happy and singing praises for Novak. His body language showed his frustration which he put it on novak, and hid behind how he himself has a "healthy" mindset about it in contrast to novak's "obsession." Just sour grapes and should be called as such.
I can see you not wanting to get caught up with the riled up fans from each side and salute the effort to go and explain your stance. Good work as always!
Sometimes I thought why Rafa's fans are so toxic then I see Rafa behaviour,then no wonder !
The opposition between "healthy ambition" and Novak's "obsession" cannot be more clead as where Nadal stands on this.
Backhanded compliments are insults.
Also it wouldn't have been a big deal if Novak hadn't already shown that he is okay with not being the GOAT, he already proved that he can live on without winning another slam when he refused the vax. He even said it in an interview earlier that year that he would be satisfied with his career if he ended behind Nadal in slam count. His words and deeds prove that the opposite of what Rafa said is true.
What Nadal said was a complete projection and nothing else.
That's why context matters a lot in this case.
One of the greatest tennis videos I've ever seen. Very honest, intelligent, clear, insighful. Congratulations, dear Gill. 🙏🏼👏🏼
As always, he decided to swim between truth and lies. He should be a politician.
@@mlrd2687what else would you expect from a liberal?
Imagine if novak comes out and in an interview says "rafa only won as many slams because he was physically well developed in his teens and that novak cudnt win more slams only due to his gluten intolerance and slow physical development"
I bet this very same gill would call novak a salty loser. This kid doesn't have the spine to call a spade a spade. Can't blame Gill trying to cover up rafa's mess bcoz he is working for the same establishment's media.
Great point dude, Gill is part of the media establishment.
I agree with you. Although I like Gill and his analysis he disappointed me in his comment about Rafa's reaction in that interview... Gill must call spade the spade if he wants to do his 'job' or hobby on the highest level. Rafa was salty - but Gill couldn't say it. Still he is among the first ones to fairly brake away from establishment media he is surrounded with.
Sorry Guru, but i wont stand for this Gill GOAT slander. Gill has been the epitome of unbiassed commentary for the last 3 years i’ve been watching him he has been completely unpartisan and simply says it like it is. So if the roles were reversed he would say the same thing about Novak as he did about Rafa.
Good point Gill. Novak can speak for himself- he is very good at it - very articulate. . Let's move on
He is indeed brilliant explaining his ideas and point of view
If Nadal was in Novaks situation...there would be nothing to clarify... This proves that Djokovic is not judged equally, but he us judged like he is some kind of second rate human beign
He doesn't need to speak for himself or even others to speak for him. As a great tennis player once said, if if if doesn't exist... Doesn't matter if he would be frustrated or not ;)
Still, if Gill wants to make good points - he must call spade a spade. Isn't that what he do on his platform anyway?!?
Considering the trajectory of Novak’s achievements, I think that the likeliest outcome is that by the time he retires he will have separated himself enough from the rest, that it will be close to impossible to argue that he is not the “GOAT” (with any objectivity, at least); even if the circumstances that would have made these achievements more difficult for players from previous eras are taken into consideration. Like, if Novak ends up with 28+ slams (which now seems like a very real possibility IMO), twice the number that Sampras won; it would be very hard to argue that Sampras could have accomplished the same had he been born in the late 80s like Novak.
Why by the time he retires? He's already ahead of everyone. He's the GOAT. Simple.
Roger needed +1 (17) for the goat title. Novak needs 6+. And 500 weeks at no1. Aint that the hypocrisy
@@Pejatube Relax, no serious tennis fans/analysts ever considered Federer goat, that was all marketing bs. I have Novak as goat now, his only real rival is Laver who not only won 2 calendar slams but 200 titles overall. Alcaraz wouldn't need 25 slams to be considered greater than Novak, he could do it with say 15 slams if it includes 2 calendar slams, certainly 3 would be a strong argument.
@@Whatreally123 Yes, but if his numbers are so big it would be hard to argue past greats would also have won 28+ slams. If I was Novak with 24 slams I'd be very happy - he's the goat on top of the mountain : )
@@Whatreally123calm down, I never said he wasn't.
If you include the players from the previous generations it can be more complicated only if you are 20-30 year young. I'm 49 and I can assure you, there has never been a player like Novak. I remember 84 and John Mcenroe. He was brutally good.. But that was just to short... Sampras was bad, really bad on clay... Roger ruled only from 2004-2009... Nadal had 2 great seasons 2010 and 2013. Novak actually is favorite in every tournament since 2011...thats unique..
Djokovic got beat down in 2012, 2013 and 2014 and was not favourite in those years for the most part then started taking over in 2015 when fed got old and Nadal got hurt
@@98TheJackInTheBox yes federer fans started complaining about Roger being past his prime when he was only 27. You can't do that. Novak was indeed struggling in those years but he was literally a #1 favorite by the bookies everywhere . Even at the RG, he was very close behind Rafa. It was like Rafa 1.6, novak 1.8 and then everybody else at 10 to 1... By the way in 2014 Novak was by far the best player on the tour.
@@Sasha402 in 2014 a different player won each slam.....how is he the best when he only won one of em
@@98TheJackInTheBox in 2014 Novak was named player of the year by the Atp. He won wimbledon and it took an otherworldly Stan to eliminate him at the AO. Novak won Atp finals that year and was holding an indoor record with 31 wins in a row. He won b2b I.W and Miami, also Rome, Beijing, Paris... His streak of 14 straight gs semis came to an end that year.
@@Sasha402 he went life and death with fed in that Wimbledon final man if he's the so called best he would have destroyed fed 6-2 6-2 6-2
Good video Gill, but regarding Nadal's movistar statements, the video of how he said it (bodylanguage + tone) is important as well, he was clearly bitter and irritated by the way he expressed himself there, + no mention of Novak in the question/statement from the interviewer.
This wasn't the first time either, Nadal has previously (2021) said that Novak is "obsessed but not in a negative way" and in the same paragraph says that he has a "healthy ambition" in contrast to Novak's obsession.. clearly implying that whatever Novak has is a unhealthy obsession or/and amibtion (contrast).
Rafa maybe has stated how he focuses on the process, but the simple reason behind that is him being able to achieve the most that way and play his best tennis, Rafa wouldn't keep playing if he couldn't compete for titles and win them, he said so himself.
His coaches and people who are close such as Lopez + Ferrer have also said many times how goal-oriented he is and how many goals he has regarding titles etc, he just doesn't speak much about it himself. Rafa has also personally said that he wants the most grand-slams and wouldn't want Djokovic to end up with it.
Everything speaks for Nadal being obsessed and he is just projecting it onto Novak as a coping mechanism. Simply because he can't deal with the fact that Novak, someone who isn't obsessed (or less obsessed than Nadal) was able to achieve more than him. So he projects all this onto Novak, it simply can't be that someone less obsessed achieves more than him.. there is the coping mechanism. It would explain why Nadal came up with such bitter statements against Novak and mentioned most of them when the question didn't even propose such an outcome.
In addition, Nadal's claims of being "super-satisfied" and always having to point out how satisfied he is because he gave it his all blabla, how many times has he said that? Why does he feel the need to? He wasn't accused of the opposite in these interviews.. I'm sure if you met Nadal at a cocktail party, without knowing who he is, he would say "I'm super comfortable and fine with my career and not having the GS record". Really, he is a broken record by now!
Their actions speak for themselves, Novak can be described as the one having a healthy ambition/ambitions.. and Nadal clearly the obsessed fella.
Novak didn't take the jab and was fine with missing the ATP tour including grand-slams, not only at the time, but in the future as well. One of Novak's reasons to play less on the tour nowadays is so that he can spend more time with his family, specifically his kids and wife. Not something that an obsessed person would do..
And Nadal? How many times did he say he is willing to die for tennis, to compete at the highest level and for titles? I can count two in memory, 2016 and 2022 ATP Finals.. numbing his foot and abusing medicine to compete and win another RG, competing at the USO while his wife faces pregnancy complication.
There are more examples of this, and they all showcase who the obsessed one is, and who the one with the healthy ambition is. To end this, here a response from Novak regarding Nadal's "obsessed with records" claim.
“Personally, I do not feel that I am obsessed with anything in life; what I feel is passion and huge desire. I am going towards achieving my goals and I have never had a problem verbalizing it. Maybe someone cannot say something and then stick to it, but I never found it hard to say: ‘I want to break that record or reach a certain goal’. I do not know why would that be a bad thing, not just in terms of records, but anything, politics in tennis for instance.”
Ever since I was a young player, I did not fear voicing my goals: I wanted to be number one and to win Slams. Of course, those goals are growing - when you fulfil one, another one appears. It is my path, and it is unique, just like Rafa’s.” - Novak Djokovic
Excellent post. very thoughtful
“I just keep winning.” Novak at 36 is still improving fine details in the process of winning. Without the processes there are no continued winning. Go Novak😊. Even when Novak was deported from Australia and Nadal won the grand slam, Novak congratulated Nadal. Novak has a big heart! Go Novak😊
Thank you very much!
One of the best comment that I've read so far
*"Djokovic is also more successful because he has had a level of fitness/physique that has allowed him to play more than me."*
Nadal could've just said "a better level of fitness and physique". But no. He somehow had to imply that if he had "play more" he would have been better. He's as bitter as his uncle.
It's disappointing from him to say the least.
People who deny the big amount of bitterness in this interview are sorry but delusional
Great comment, i agree 100%.
I agree with you. Nor Nadal, nor Federer would have EVER been boys dreaming with be #2 or #3 in the world, OF COURSE THEY DREAM WITH #1, and they have LOST. Just accept it and move on! But of course, they are still in the “denial stage” of their loss stages.
To be goat you have to dominate the field across generation. Number does not lie. Goatovic is about to get 400 weeks as # 1. This number alone is enough to be goat. End of the debate. No need to mention he got the most prize money and the most major tittles. Laver, Borg, Sampras and Federer are all goats of their times but none of them even come close to 400 weeks as # 1. 💯👍 🐐👑👽 24🏆
400 40 25 that's is GOAT numbers
What irritates Nadal is what also irritates Federer, and it's the reason they cannot bring themselves to congratulate SPONTANEOUSLY and GENUINELY Novak: they are company men, the choice of the establishment.
In fact any topics that could potentially be controversial (Wimbledon ban on Russian & Belarusian players, Peng Shuai case, earnings of low ranking players,...) they stayed away from so they could remain “loved” by mainstream medias and public opinions 🙄🤦🏽♂️
*They did everything they were asked, they always follow political and social narratives whatever they are. In their view, THEY should be the ones to be considered the GOAT.*
Novak did it on his terms, giving a middle finger to the matrix. His refuses to be an establishment pawn. And in spite of trying to bring Novak down, keeping him out of tournaments, tarnishing his name because he wouldn't "just get the damn shot", he beat them all, not just on the court, but in life. He never bent the knee, and showed what true greatness is.
*This is also why many Fedal fans are so salty towards Djokovic : because their own idols are* 🤷♂️
Federer
*"That's the way he grew up playing, slapping shots when down, so it's probably normal for him. I have always believed more in hard work"*
Nadal
*"Novak is more obsessed about this. For him, it would have been a greater frustration not to achieve it."*
I invite everyone to look carefully at their face and body language when they said these words, it's even more meaningful
Nadal and Federer don't like Novak, and are clearly jealous of his achievements . They should just zip it, instead of throwing shades at him. 🤦♂️
Agreed, and I might add that while Nole stood up for his rights as a human being, Rafa was pushing the opposite.
Mickael, THIS is internet's best comment! Thank you for saying it so eloquently!
Best comment ever! Nole will not bend the knee to the establishment. Federer and Nadal are bought and paid for.
"I am not frustrated" said a frustrated finger pointing salty excuse giving rafa 🤷♂️
Rafa said that his ambition is 'healthier' than Novak's (and even labelled it as an obsession), and that Novak is gonna be disappointed if he doesn't get the most GS and big titles. It makes Rafa sound kinda bitter. And then he added his injury woes; it almost seems like he's a bit angry that it didn't go as he expected.
Trying to condition the mind of the fans about yours and a rival's intentions is disingenuous. He wants to make it seem like he isn't trying when he very much is. Even Roger wanted to pass Pete in no. of GS. And of course, Novak very much wants to hold on to the record.
It's getting close to the end of their era, and seeing Novak turn out to be the most successful in pretty much all metrics have got to be eating at them (media and fans of the other 2). But they were the ones who started counting.
"It's not an insult" -disingenuous nole haters
Please, we should not forget that Nole stated publicly on BBC that his principles and self respect are more important than any tennis achivments.
and he supported it with his decisions...
Gill, not sure why you need to sugar coat what Nadal said. He clearly said his ambition is a healthy ambition while Djokovic has an insane obsession . It was totally uncalled for, when the reporter didn't even ask him about Djokovic. It clearly shows how much Nadal is frustrated and how badly he wants it. After he won 21st slam, he clearly said "this is not going to be enough".
I believe that if Carlitos wins one GS more than Novak he will instantly be crowned as GOAT without question. When it comes to Novak it looks like every smashed racket voids one GS title.
Eat with your mom
Hahaha, you're right.
Ifs dumb philosophy....if my grandma would not aged....she would not passaway
So many ifs we saw. Just check your lovely belly whether she bred with Goran.
@bojanpalink5471 butthurt carlitaost fan aren't we?
24 record slams ✅
Only man to win in the open era4 slams in a row ✅
Most slam finals 36 out of 72 slams played with the best succes percentage✅
Only man to get the triple career slam ✅
Most weeks at no.1 391 ✅
Most year end no1s 7 ✅
Most masters 1000 , 39 ✅
Most points accumulated in one season 16585✅
Only man to win all masters not once but twice ✅
Record equaling ATP WTFINALS 6 times ✅
Most top 10 wins ✅
Longest winning streak 43 matches ✅
Only player to beat Nadal 2 times at RG
Beat Nadal in 7 consecutive finals
Beat ROGER in 3 Wimbledon finals
Winning h2h against both Roger and Rafa
It is pointless to add the ,, one of ‘’ before ,,the GOAT’’ , he is the GOAT stats and number back that up .
If anyone is gonna make an argument for Nole having weak competition i hope they also remember when Federer in his supposed strong era beat a Baghdatis ranked 54 in the 06 AO final , a Safin ranked ranked 86 in the 04 AO final or a Philippousis ranked 48 in the 03 Wimbledon final !!!
At this point, there's really no argument for anyone else.
Ummm why so insecure
? Laver won 4 Slams in a row in the Open Era
@@naysayer1238yep
Novax fans IE Serbians are toxic (ic) people
@@punns643hey kid just give the phone back to your mummy 😂😂
Thanks gill for honest and broadest analogy of the tennis goat debate...
Mr Gill Gross.. the reason us Serbs watch you is because of all the analytical tennis UA-camrs.. you speak with the smartest.. most sensible and unbiased viewpoint.
Your technical analysis is highly regarded and your depth of knowledge regarding many lower ranked players is also excellent.
Kudos to you and love from Serbia !
Federer was signing insane, lucrative sponsorships at the nadir of his carrier.
Why?
Because his sponsors thought that he will retire as the GOAT and that they will be able to "milk" his name for years, if not decades, to come.
Now, when Djokovic stomped all RF records, the investors went into a panic mode and started PAYING various media outlet to shift the narrative and preserve by any means Federer's GOAT status or keep him in the conversation.
Thats when all the media started shilling for Federer and started saying how its not just about records, but elegance, grace and personality and public image.
If Federer is not a GOAT these people lose some serious money.
True.
Yup. And they spent millions investing in the Fedal rivalry talking about "the artist v the fighter. Which side are you on?" crap. Djokovic's emergence and subsequent dominance ruined everything for them.
The problem with Nadal's statement is that he is being hypocritical as he is perfectly willing to destroy his own body to gain more GS titles, so he doesn't have a health ambition. If Djokovic was in Nadal's shoes with crippling injuries left and right he would have retired years ago. To Djokovic, health is more important than any title. Nadal doesn't have anything to prove and nothing more to achieve so it is obvious that he is extremely frustrated about his lack of goat status.
Masterful video Gill. Awesome job. To me (I’m a massive Rafa fan) the GOAT debate has been settled for a while now and it’s clearly Novak. I honestly don’t know how is it possible to argue against it. I get that Novak is not as likeable as Federer due to his on court behavior at times, but his records are really heads and shoulders above anyone else.
Nadal always wants to paint himself in the good light and then contrast it with something bad from Djokovic. He is a 'normal guy', with healthy competition, and Novak is frustrated, obsessed maniac?? Not to mention he clarified his stance further a bit later, which wasn't that flattering either. It's not about GOAT race anymore, it's just sad how one the greats is that salty and tries to be ahead in any way possible, but it is what it is.
If Nadal said "I tried all in my power, but the overall result is not in my favour" Id have nothing but the deepest respect for him and that would somewhat keep him in goat debate in my mind.
Instead, what he was doing and saying, especially since 2022, made him a sore loser, or even something worse.
Oh Gill, you are one hell of an amazing guy! You are rare in this world! Keep it up! Greetings from Serbia!
I really like some of your points of view, it really gives me a new perspective on some things.
Few things that I would like to add:
Novak Djokovic went through something that no athlete should ever go through. No matter how strong we believe he is, he is a human being.
From the beginning of his career, he was forced to be the bad guy.
I don't think there is a single athlete in the world who has been through so much hate and disrespect as Novak Djokovic. And despite that, he managed to become the best tennis player of all time.
People recognize that, and that is why he is so loved and respected all over the world. That's why he will be remembered as the greatest of all time.
He is a true champion, not just in tennis, but in life. He is always supporting his colleagues, he is supporting good behavior, he is supporting the right values, which is something that is very rare in today's world.
There was a lot of champions who were the best in their sport, but Novak is league of his own. He is a living legend!
Thank you so much Gill for this video you clarified everything that was a bit cloudy in the mailbag one, and completely agree with your GOAT stance its Novak or its no-one!!
12:56 Exactly! Djokovic. PEERIOD!
.
As long as we have Time, then there must be GOAT (greatest of all time). It cannot be there is no goat. Sure there is. However, that is changeable...over time. If someone else surpassed Djokovic legacy, then he becomes the GOAT. Till then, long live the GOAT!
Gill: Finishing strong! Well done. Glad you included that fan comment from Godzy2011 which was correct on every point. It encapsulated why so many Novak fans are fed up. Anybody who has spent time in junior tennis with their kid knows that tennis is in fact a rich and privileged sport. Great to see an outsider at the top of Mount Olympus.
Well if Nadal did not want more grand slams why did he play while so injured and while his wife was in hospital before their child's birth . Nadal has always been jealous of Novak.
Tennis fans are so soft. Nadal just praised Djokovic’s drive and motivation. That’s it. There’s no need to start crying about it. He even called Djokovic the GOAT at the end but it’s always the negative with y’all.
@@SJ-di5zuwhy are you so defensive? 😂 . Nadal got exposed to his fake persona in that interview because his bitterness and jealousy got the better out of him - and he knows it, that is why his PR team rushed (1 day later) to make a statement to save his face again. You're just a hypocrite fedalista just like your beloved fedals. Both are fake 😂
When did he say he didn't want more grand slams?
Don’t listen to this person they rag on Nadal any chance they get. Just another typical Novak fan.
@@SJ-di5zu Please stop making lame excuses
When Federer led the field in Grand Slams for many years, Nadal never said:
"Roger's the best, by numbers, by titles."
The Spaniard used to say many times back then
*"Roger is the great of all time, FULL STOP."*
But of course with Novak he find it so hard to accept that Djokovic is the best that he has to add that qualifier, you know why?
This is indeed a fake world full of prejudice, a fake compliment with backhanded. 🤦♂️
He is so jealous and bitter towards Novak.
If you take this as congratulating genuinely Djokovic we must live in different universe.
If Nadal thought Djokovic was the greatest, he’d say he’s the greatest, period.
By adding “in terms of numbers and titles” he implies that according to others criteria, Djokovic is not the GOAT in his eyes…please read between the lines before commenting.
Really enjoy the balance you bring to your analysis..I spent years rooting against Rafa because I was Roger fan. And then rooting against Novak for the same reason 😂. Nowadays I am at peace with it, I feel very fond of Rafa and will miss him when he retires. Not sure I will ever be 'fond' of Novak but there is no denying that, on pretty much every measure, he is the GOAT. But of course fandom is not really rational and no one will ever represent the magic that Federer did for me - when he played his last match at Laver Cup last year, I sobbed. But I don't have to resent Djokovic for what he has achieved.
I'm fan of Djokovic or not but atleast I should have integrity to accept his greatness and qualities on and off court...But blind fedal fans behaving same like their null idols
djokovic is the best ever and i like him as a person
Yes!
Interesting...
I've always seen the Big 3 as kind of brother rivalry. The eldest (Federer) yielding the power, more accountable and putting an emphasis on traditional achievement.
The middle (Nadal) having a stronger sense of not belonging and more agreeable and easygoing in life.
The youngest (Djokovic) as the rule challenger, more creative, and persistent knowing that he can wear down his siblings through persistence and creativity.
As such, may be I'm biased towards hearing their comments in this light. Where in real life Djokovic is the eldest of three brothers. So he brings in those traits too. No wonder he is the greatest! 🐐
It will be cool to see how Djokovic ends his career. Hopefully it is like Sampras after a win and not like Lendl after years of 1R and 2R losses.
Go Djokov1c! 😉👍
Lmao Djoko will never be playing tennis long losing like that! Lol At very most he will retire when he feels like he is stuck at QF or SF of another grand slam and cannot advance to another final anymore to even finish as a runner-up! But he won't be a punching bag for every average joe like Lendl was back in early 90's! Lmao
He will retire from tennis by still being decent top-8 player capable of consistently reaching QFs and SFs!…This is what i think...
Novak has been playing against scrubs the past three years. His main rival now is 20 years old!
@@steviejohnson378:Haha, Djokov1c holds all these records, because he’s been able to do it in the pressure situation against the best players in the world time over time again since 2011, not just the last 3 years!
Nadal has also beaten the same players over the last 3 years too for big titles - so are you going to diminish Nadal's records? That's crazy...
How about taking away Federer's 18 wins against Hewitt? Or is that ok as Hewitt was the legitimate youngest ever World #1.😜
C'mon, just enjoy tennis and respect every players' records for what they are.
Usain Bolt doesn't have to be the most handsome or the most popular...it's just that his results are undeniable.
Well he’s popular and loved though, doesn’t hit balls at throats and shout like a psycho all the time
I don't remember that anyone talk about old tennis generation when Roger Federer overpass SAMPRAS tennis history books record... in that time federer was absolutely tennis GOAT.. today NOVAK NOVAK DJOKOVIC is unstoppable force and still counting and UNDISPUTED tennis GOAT and people talk about old tennis generation 😂😂😂😂😂
Even though you bring up all the old players to the goat debate , one thing that they can't claim is the Most weeks at No 1.
Because, even tho medical advances,Raquet technologies whatever but tye conditions are same for all of the players of that generation. That means being No 1 is the most important thing to prove who is the GoAT!
And I’d counter that by saying that the fact players wouldn’t be regular champions across all surfaces due to much larger delta between them, some not even playing in all majors (eg Borg at the AusOpen) would seriously skew the weeks at #1 number as well from 1990 backwards.
@@DandanGallagher He played at Australia one when he was 17yo. and lost to the eventual winner.
He only played in the Aussie Open once because a lot of the top players skipped it back then. He was a four time US Open finalist, losing to Connors twice and McEnroe twice.
And one more thing is that "If he'd play he would have won it " mentality is absolutely wrong!
Nobody, really nobody is debating Novak's GOAT status anymore. I just can't understand why so many Novak fans are so insecure about his GOAT status, they see the slightest comment about him in a negative way and feel the urge to defend him.
@@durgaprasadsamantula699 not sure I get your point. Like I said, Borg who has a serious case on claiming the Goat status could never beat the weeks at #1 record precisely because he skipped the AusOpen and also played in an era where the success you had either on clay, hard courts or grass was very far from indicating you’d be successful in other surfaces like you see in the Big 3 numbers which are insane anyway you look at it.
@@mireafelder8194 Are you sure?
You better be looking comment session of every goat debate video!
Nadal talked a few seconds later in the movistar + interview about his "sane ambition" implying without the shadow of a doubt that Novak's was insane... Is that insulting? I let you decide...
Trouble is in that, if Federer or Nadal had the moste GS this debate would not even existe...
Great video Gill. Thanks. Only one thing: Novak fans aren’t only from Serbia. We are from all over. 🇬🇷
Hmmm. So he plays through a serious foot injury at RG where he was the favorite to win, but won't play through an abdominal tear at Wimbledon where he likely would have lost to Djokovic. That does not scream "love of the process and competition", but more so winning as many slams as possible.
I like this take a lot. If there is a GOAT you have to go by the stats and it has to be Novak. But Sampras and other greats had completely different circumstances and competition.
Djokovic is the BOAT. That's it.
I hate it so much when people asterisk Novak being the GOAT with "if you go by stats". So disrespectful.
i really dont understand, how anyone can argue agianst Djkovic being the GOAT, i mean this guy Resume is impeccable, dont tell me about the endorsements, popularity, tennis style, those things have nothing to do with GOAT debate. Dimitrov plays beautiful tennis too, is he the GOAT? Naomi Osaka has more endorsements than Serena over the last few years, is she the women's GOAT than Serena?
‘Impeccable’ ? 7-11 to Nadal, zero Olympics? Only 1 Slam during the great Federe-Nadal rivalry of 2005-2010? Hmmm
Funny and also sad thing is, now that you have given people the choice of either Novak being the GOAT or not having any GOAT at all, majority of people will vote for the latter... It's just too traumatic for them to accept Novak as the GOAT over their favorite ones.
from serbia: let us just be thankful that we saw three tennis giants playing at the highest level for a decade......
Thank you
Naming a single GOAT is dismissive towards past champions - this is EXACTLY what Novak said when he was asked this. And he said that these past champions paved the road for the future ones, set examples, and left a basis of knowledge and experience to take from. So it's more like a journey or evolution where new generations ARE SUPPOSED to exceed and outgrow the previous ones, and Novak is not only fine with that, he is happy with that. Respect that man so much!
Agree, very polite answer and that's why he chose to answer that question. Now, I would like to hear his answer regarding who is the best of the big 3! Which is what Gill, very courageously, chose to give
@@zy9662 In a way, he did answer that - he said I always feel like I'm the best, I think I need that in order to succeed.
OFC there was a plethora of "HE IS SO ARROGANT" comments there, but people are just stupid.
I admire Rafa on the court. And his career.I really do. But his comments against Novak at the AO, and now, are simply impolite, at best.
Hi Gill. I think that racquet, surfaces etc is not an important topic. At all. Players of each era have the same conditions at the same period. U need to adapt the game to the current situation. And by that, Novak is the most versitile player of big3. And as u said, numbers do talk…. However, keep up the good work.
You’re missing an important point: it’s easier to be successful on all three surfaces when the differences between them all get reduced. Hence, it’s easier for a player today to win in clay if he’s a fast court specialist than it was before the 90s for example
Gill, just to clarify on my own question about BYEs. I don't like BYEs either. But I prefer this new idea with very limited numbers to the usual format where players who aren't even close to form are getting free matches. I agree with yout points in the Mailbag answers as well. Anyway, i don't think BYEs even help that often for players who have a decent rank but are on a bad run of form. We'll see how Pavlyuchenkova does against Mirra after her Performance BYE, but I would favour Mirra after 3 matches already to be more ready than her opponent who has been waiting some days to play again. Thanks!
Thank you Gill for this amazing analysis . I want to give my contribution to this great debate . The professional circuit was born in the 1927 , but the majors pro were played by a handful of big players , the draw was consisting of 4 ,8,12 players or 16 max (in few circumstances) . This system changed in 1968 when the grand slam became open to the professional players ,this means that from the structure point of view , the slam were definitely demoted due to the fact that the best players were playing into the professional circuit .Moreover the best players played with a small draw whereas today not only the slam draw is made of 128 players , but players from all over the world can compete like Russians, Serbian, Chinese, furthermore tennis became more popular and opened and not circumscribed to few people like in the past . Today the draw are much more competitive, the best 200 can give more troubles . The speed of tennis is more physical and mental, players hit the ball stronger and with more control so rallies are more demanding.
Gill has explicitly made clear in this video that Novak is synonymous with GOAT.
Interesting take on the eras comparisons Gill, particularly re: Sampras/Borg/Laver. But to continue that theme, you repeatedly said 7 years though, is that not a major gap?
Are Federer and Djokovic really the same generation?
By years, it's already significant, but by how the game is played, it's huge. For context, luxilon poly strings only came out after Federer turned pro, that says alot.
Novak achieved the most, but to me Federer is the only one who could bridge the old school and modern games, and succeed across both.
Excellent points! I think that Federer's former goatiness was easier to identify for a broader public (crushing Sampras' numbers compared to "3 guys have about 20 GS") and more "advanced" stats might not have been available or been well-discussed a few years ago. For example I think the head-to-heads are quite meaningful and the "won all masters 1000 three times" and similar filling-out-the-scorecard records in Djokovic's favour have been brought up only more recently.
Really good video Gill: yes before the 00s, it was much harder to win all slams, and to have a career past 30yo. This is a good case for Sampras, who had 14slams, most year end number one, and weeks at 1. Very true how Fed was annointed GOAT very easily right when he reached 15 majors, but now that Nole has all the records, you hear about other factors like "impact on sport"....GOAT conversation can be subject to personal opinion, but in this case, everything is so clearly on novak's side that making a case against him is futile
Records are records. If you talk about who’s the most humble champion, who’s the most brandable tennis player, who has the most eye-catching game style, then you aren’t talking about the Greatest tennis player of all time, you are talking about something else. GOAT - means the most slams, masters, The most weak number 1s, diversity in winning across surfaces like 3+ slams in all GS and the better H2Hs. Others like “He’s not the goat because he isn’t humble, he’s not the goat cuz he breaks rackets” are irrelevant!
Hello, Gill! Really enjoying your content for years. I also recommend your channel to bunch of my friends and family. Great stuff. Also , thank you for mentioning Serbia. Greetings from Belgrade, cheers...
I really enjoyed every second of your video. Thank you for pointing out some important facts. It is nice you are protecting Rafa with his salty reaction and obviously revealing his own frustration as he started nodding on the interviewers claim "you can´t be frustrated at 22 GS, Rafa"... And actually, I am enjoying this theatre still denying what is a matter of fact when you take records as a serious standard (what is professional sport about than success = records?). I am enjoying the media to make itself foolish more and more the more records he is going to brake in the next (how many...?) years.... Let´s enjoy it by knowing the real answer. Cheers bro.
As always very precise, clear and objective by Gill, i couldn't praise your profesionalism enough.
On the subject....it anoys me that in other sports(colective sports mostly) where the GOAT debates exist there are mostly several players mainly playing in different eras,or 2 of them at least but who never met each other.Other thing is those are team sports (basketball,football etc...) where not all is done by that one player...he might be the best,but is not alone in success.But,the debates are still active,and the numbers are pretty much the main standard for determing who is better(even those are team sports as i said).And now,in tennis, you have 3 guys who are in their own tier above all the other legends of the sport,playing against each other for entire cariers,and in individual sport where every on-court execution depends only on you and is directly affected by the oponent you are facing....it could not be clearer and easier to determine the GOAT in any sport than this....and yet, there are still 'options' of 'we have 3 GOATs' and 'there is no GOAT' etc...
My view is that Djokovic, Nadal and Federer can be compared against each other, and against Sampras and Agassi, but that none of those legends can be properly compared against players from earlier eras.
Grand slam counting only became a big deal from the 90s, so solely or mainly judging players like Borg and Connors based on the number of grand slam titles that they won is pretty much useless. Also when they were in their primes, grand slams didn't pay out the most money, numerous other tournaments including quite a few invitational ones paid out more. And regarding Laver, after he won his grand slam in 1969, his focus understandably switched to trying to earn as much money as possible before he retired, again with many other tournaments paying out more money than the grand slams. So I think it's impossible to compare eras like that, with ones from the 90s onwards when grand slam counting became the be all and end all and when grand slams ramped up their prize money relative to other tournaments.
Laver was super talented but just wasnt born with the athleticism to play toe to toe against the big 3 if he was born again in their era
Gill, you are the undisputed tennis analyst! Compared to you, the mainstream sports media are poor amateurs.
Hello from Serbia Gill.
I apreciate your content very much, top stuff each and every time.
As a die hard Novak fan, I must say that I am personaly closer to your tier ranking system then calling someone undesputable GOAT. Big 3 + few more (Sampras, Laver, Borg) are all Tier1, no question about it. What does GOAT even means, is there an established criteria for this? No, so it will always be subjectified by every fan as he pleases. Novak is the most succesfull player without any doubt and as it seems now, he is most likely going to increase his numbers. I agree with you Gill, answer to the GOAT debate can only be either "it is Novak", or "there is no GOAT". I am personaly kind of leaning to the second one, but man it is very satisfying that my man Novak holds all the important records. For me, that is more then enough.
And yes, it is unfair that Roger was aknowledged as the GOAT while he held all the records, but again, Gill is a spot on as usual when he says that Roger was always the Darling of media all over the world, and it was very easy and very popular to make such a claim. He is, no doubt the GOAT in popularity. Novak never has been, nor he will ever be as popular as Roger, i really dont have a problem with that, as long he is given the respect he deserves. The truth is that there are a lot of toxic stuff out there on all sides. That is why Gill and his chanel are signs of reason and professional coverage of the sport.
Well done Gill.
Hi Gill, your content is one of the best in the category. Congrats on this. This os also the reason why many in Serbia follow you.
I have to make a small comment....The interview NADAL gave to Movistar Plus Channel- who BTW SPONSORS his Academy - went like this: The interviewer DID NOT ASK anything about NOVAK indeed he said: I do not think you (Nadal) can not be frustrated about having 22GS...NADAL answered visibly frustrated and without any class: Yes, it is possible to frustrated, NOVAK FOR EXAMPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN FRUSTRATED IF HE DID NOT ACHIVE WHAT HE DID. THAT IS MAYBE A REASON WHY HE ACHIVED IT.
This is 100% accurate translation - I speak fluently Spanish.
Suddenly just a day after this classless words of Rafa, the media is bombarded with his interview to AS tabloid, where he says what you said about the numbers...
It was amazing to see how difficult it started to find this interview on UA-cam.
Even if you type Rafael Nadal Movistar interview you get AS INTERVIEW as some of the first search results.
Media is corrupt, media does unfavour Novak.
You really believe having most grand slams didn't matter to Nadal? Come on..
The whole idea of there is no one goat, there are 3 is just this 'let's give johny a participation trophy' thinking. No, there are people who are better than others and there are people who are better than all the others and in tennis we have an objective way of determining the best player....and that is Novak Djokovic. -- Sincerely, a Fed fan
Federer is the best, Rafa too, Novak is the GOAT. That's it.
So why is he 7-11 to Nadal in Slam h2h and Olympics ? And he couldn't compete at all during the Federer Nadal rivalry 2005-2010.
Stop with your absolutism
Hi Gill, just to follow up on this video. I think its safe to say that the big3 era is by far the strongest era in tennis so far. Having said that, it makes sense that the best player of that era has to be the best of all time. So Novak is the goat so far at least, until another one breaks his records. Another thing is that Nadal sounded very salty when he commented on Djokovic and his frustration. Also he did concede the goat title but he did it by saying that numbers are behind Novak but personal preference is still open. Honestly it feels bitter.
Very interesting and insightful analysis, as usual. I agree the whole GOAT conversation is problematic, for the reasons you cite - modern day players have advantages that enable them to rack up more impressive career stats than players of earlier generations. I recall that Djokovic himself in a press conference declined to claim that title, saying he thought it would be disrespectful to great champions of earlier eras.
I like the idea of thinking in terms of tiers, rather than ranked lists. Would be very interested to hear your thoughts on what players, at least those who played in the Open era, deserved to be in the top A+ tier. To my mind it would of course be the Big Three, as well the three mentioned above - Laver, Borg and Sampras. Then who would be on the second tier? That would probably include Connors, MacEnroe, Lendl, Agassi, Rosewall, and perhaps a few others.
Thank you for being pure real, this is great.
Very good points, all you have said about the all time GOAT. Yet another you can include. Till end of 70s and most probably 80s very few nations were serious about the sport. For more than 85% of the population of our planet did not even know the basic rules. Anglo-Saxons, plus 4-5 nations in Europe with aristocratic "classes" and that's it. The exceptions of Nastase, Villas, Navratilova, Lendl, Ashe (as Afro-American) are only verifying this.
This proves that overall competition now is much harder and the accomplishments of big-3 are out of this world.
U said it for me!
@@xuanli2897 Thx a lot
Different eras have different environments...like racquet technology, physiologists, medicine, and bla bla..... but you have to compete in the same Era ... and the environment will be the same for your competitors as well... the only thing that may affect comparison of different eras is the level of competition (weak era or strong era).... and by no means any one can say that Novak has won 24 gs in weak Era...
Eh what rafa said is completly ok to me. But i think he doesn't like the fact that djokovic has more gs than him, i remember watching a clip where djokovic or rafa said their rivlary ruined a friendship they had, and he shouldn't be happy the man is a competitor.
All said and done, Rafa shouldn’t have spoken for djokovic. That’s plain salty, no ?
As a Novak supporter (I'm not a fan of anyone except of my kids :) ) I would just add to your comments that the whole tennis community is missing the very essence of tennis because of the GOAT debate. We've all enjoyed the great matches between the big 3, and they've gave us something extraordinary, the unbelievable shots that defied the physics, the tension, the dilemma of who will overcome the tough match moments especially overcoming the self crises during the match and the unpredictive outcome of their each H2H. My thoughts regarding the GOAT debate itself is that is actually hurting the sport because of the rivalry between the fans, so the players and the whole tennis community was involved within the subject by the press and the media. It would be much nicer imho that everyone recognizes Novak's results, but since it's not the case, it's not worth of it to push the subject in order to change someone's opinion because it doesn't make any sense. For me, Novak is the GOAT, for someone else it is Rafael or Roger, and that is perfectly ok. I would rather talk about the influence of the big 3 on today's tennis game as we are introduced with the new generation of players. I mean, look how the game itself evolved and how the game is changing and developing into something completely different from what we have seen in the '80s, '90s or even 2000s. I am so happy about this and I enjoy the tennis (r)evolution.
Most slams (and finals and semis)
Most masters (and finals and semis)
Most big titles
Most weeks @#1
Most YE #1
Triple career slam
Double golden masters (triple with another Monte Carlo)
Best season ever
Highest ELO rating
Highest YE ELO rating
Highest win %
- Most matches vs top 5, top 10 and top 20
- Played in the toughest era
- Had the toughest draws on average throughout his career
Titled GOAT (or at least BOAT) by most tennis greats
What is there more to say?
Nadal is at least as goal oriented as Djokovic. He is just serving the same story (I really cant believe how anyone buys it) to put pressure of etc. Djokovic is more inteligent and has taken time to actually think about his body, and how to make it work the best. Nadal literally went to a "win or die" mission every time, his body took a lot, but now, there are more and more consiquences to such decision.
Let's make it simple. Djokovic lives rent free in Nadal's head. The interviewer did not even mentioned the GOAT in the first place. That just tells you how nadal's bitterness and jealousy level is 😂
Nadal lives rent free on Novak fans heads 🤭
@@yussepig6629 Novak lives rent free on Nadal fans heads 🤭
Don’t you find it funny that surprisingly people start to say that records are not the only thing just when Novak became number one?
Nadal's comment shows how frustrated he is... at the moment
Since Novak has been my favorite layer for a decade, I'll say it loud and proud "Novak is The GOAT, unequivocally!" But I get your nuance. As far as Nadal, I feel you're a bit of a Nadal apologist, over the years Nadal has made several comments indicating Novak has more titles and records just bc he wants it more. Based on Nadal's actions he seems to want to be top dog just as much, he just may not be as honest as Novak has been.
You got me thinking now. Depends on Criteria. I remember Sampras on his day firing on all cylinders was basically unplayable. But he list drive, motivation and in my mind never had that timeless champions mentality of Nadal and Djokovic, especially Djokovic who is top or near top of EVERY criteria/ category we evaluate to decide GOAT. We have the stats, why complicate things, we have data showing that 8j every respect no matter how you slice it Djok takes it
I agree entirely that Novak is the GOAT. No other possibility holds any common sense or logical weight to my way of thinking. So I make the following comment not to undermine my own argument but because the question has always nagged at me. Is there a distinction to be drawn between the "best ever" and the "greatest ever"? "Best ever" covers pretty objective criteria. but "greatest ever" does that as well, but would also include intangibles such as contribution to the sport, capturing the public's imagination, aesthetic purity, heart, etc. It just seems to me that "greatest" is a bigger, more dimensional umbrella than "best," and its complexities should be taken into account. Overall, I far prefer Gill's "tier" system actually--but I'm just suggesting that "best" and "greatest" may not be the same thing.
Djokovic fans are fully aware of your "greatest" argument, which is why they have full-time jobs on social media 'promoting' everything Djokovic and fabricating stories about both Federer and Nadal. Even Alcaraz has become a target.
Ahhh, the human dynamics & drama of goals and processes. What we say versus how we behave or act? Biases, preferences, speaking for what/how others think or behave. Accusations...insults....respectful....contextual....blah...blah...blah.... End of the day - it's all just perspectives and everyone has one and we are all entitled to one. Numbers favour Novak. By all metrics, Nole is the GOAT as of 2023. Federer and Nadal and Djokovic are all GOATS! Thanx Gill. Cheers, Milan
Your original response was very clear. But Bonus viedo always welcome!
There is no GOAT debate in tennis at all .. Novak is one and only GOAT no matter who likes it or not ...its a fact based on records ,numbers and stats which is the only thing that matters in sport .. sport is a competition , athletes compete for the trophies ..period .. ,
As for comparing other legends of the sport through different Eras ... It may be hard to compare them as players but its not hard to compare their results ... Every player played the best he could in his time and given circumstances ... Each one of them had their own circumstances and problems to deal with .. . If someone could win more he would do it in his time .. if Laver could win 24 GS he would , if Sampras could do it ,he would .. if Borg could do it, he would, if Federer could do it ,he would ....
Every player had his own path and battles ... Novak overcame his battles starting from health issues in early career matches , all the way through hostile crowds , biased media , beating 2 other biggest rivals , prison ,deportation and bans in the last 3 years , he overcame everything and is still at the top with 36 yo dominating 3-4 generations in a row ....
Thats his circumstances in his career that he needed to deal with .. now tell me , what player in the history of the game had this kind of problems and difficulties ? NO ONE EVER
1 more thing .. todays tennis is much more physical , non of those old legends would stand a chance today ... On the other hand , we all know Novak has the best adapting skills to any surfaces,any oponent .... He would certainly adapt very well in Lavers Era too ,just Like he is changing his game now and adapting now to Alcaraz and Younger gens
Personally I do think that the Big 3 are the 3 greatest players of all time. There was a set of circumstances that aided in their dominance, but I think the main reason was the presence of the other two simultaneously that pushed these guys to higher and higher heights. Until Federer there was never anyone in the open era to rack up slams at that rate and to play so consistently across 3 surfaces. This means that the bar was already astronautically high for the other 2 to catch up to him.
What about the significant age gap between Federer and the other 2? And what of the talk of Federer's peak being stronger?
I am older and so much more moved by the tennis of the past. Pete Sampras was terrifying on fast courts with the equipment of the day.
Mcenroe in 84 was just unbelievable.
Djokovic's longevity is unbelievable. He's the most mentally tough player ever.
Nadal is not quite retired. It's not over. I do look at all of this somewhat romantically.
But Pete Sampras on the faster grass of yore vs Djokovic using the older equipment with smaller sweet spots...
That's not an easy answer to me.
5 years is a significant age gap lol If anything, it allows Federer more time to play without prime Djokovic and Nadal, who are 1 year apart. The fact that Federer failed to do so can't be explained by anything other than his inferiority. And how in hell was Federer's peak stronger?
Sampras was indeed a monster on faster grass, but ooooops, that doesn't just affect Djokovic baby. If you question Djokovic's ability to counter him then and there, don't forget to question Federer's ability too.
@@keithwatson7434 I'm not trying to take anything away from Djokovic. His leverage and balance and movement and shots on the stretch are surely revolutionary. But I don't think those things were possible with the older raquets and strings. I'll admit, I'm partial to aggressive tennis.
Federer getting double matchpoint on Djokovic in that 2019 Wimbledon Final was incredible accomplishment. But he didn't close.
I was never a huge fan, but Djokovic is an absolute monster. I was moved by those successive backhands he hit at 4-5 in the second set tiebreaker against Medvedev in that US Open Final. And it's clear that he's a great man.
@@michaelgarza8271 Those shots Djokovic makes on the stretch are exactly the shots that are most reliable across courts and technologies because it is about movement! What are you talking about? Serve and volley can get and kind of is out of date, big spinning shots can be hard with old rackets, but great movements never fail!
and it is not surprising that many people from Serbia follow your channel.. you respect the champions wherever they come from, avoiding biases, (which every sports journalist would have to clear up with himself first if he addresses the whole world in english), and no one after the clip leaves in a rebus in the sense of "what is this story, did we watch the same match?"...