The Top-10, Top-10 Forehands | Mailbag
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- On this week's Mailbag, Gill Gross answers your comments, including: how did Roger Federer win five US Opens in a row considering the unpredictable nature of the event in recent times, does Daniil Medvedev have a chance at beating Carlos Alcaraz on a very fast court, ranking the forehands of ATP top-10 players, which slam is Andrey Rublev's best chance to make his first semifinal, what is the status of Novak Djokovic's motivation, should something like ELO ratings be used instead of the current ranking system, who will get the US Open 4-seed, what are the most aesthetically pleasing shots, what are tips for attending the US Open, will Alexander Zverev win a slam, what is Chris Eubanks's ceiling, Jack Draper evaluation, struggles for Ben Shelton and Sebastian Korda and the future of analytics in tennis.
00:00 Intro
01:03 Federer's USO Streak
03:51 Medvedev's Alcaraz Issue
06:30 Top-10 Forehands
12:11 Rublev's Best Slam
14:14 Djokovic Motivation
18:54 ELO Rankings
21:48 US Open 4th Seed
25:10 Aesthetic Shots
27:50 US Open Tips
31:25 Zverev Slam Chances
34:55 Chris Eubanks
37:17 Jack Draper
38:45 Korda and Shelton
40:40 Tennis Analytics
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Okay, I see people aren’t understanding the prompt. This was NOT the top-10 forehands on tour. This was ranking the current ATP top-10 in order of forehand effectiveness.
thanks of clarifying this. Therefore I can agree with Rune's 9th position
"Ranking the Top 10's forehands" is a clearer title.
I was going to say: No Rafa!!! But now I get it.
Hello Gill. Can you comment on next mailbag Federer nerves compared to Novak and Rafa please? Did you know that Fed played 13 final set tiebreak matches in his carrer and managed to win ONLY 1, against Ljubicic in Rotterdam final in ‘05. Thanks. Ivan.
Okay. Medvedev forehand is bad bcos it causes 0 damages. Rublev is just better. You're mistaken their over game consistency for forehand consistency. We are not talking about defense
Thank you Gill for answering my question. 😊
A couple more I’d add to “aesthetic shots”:
Nadal’s banana forehand is so satisfying. The way it curves back into the court like it’s magnetized is fun to watch.
I’d also add Alcaraz’s run around forehand off a sitter ball on the deuce side. The way he backpedals around it, lines it up with one arm on the racket, other arm out for torque, stops, and just unleashes a triple digit forehand either inside out or inside in. Every time he’s lining it up, I get ready as if I’m watching LeBron (or prime Blake Griffin) about to finish a fast break dunk.
Those little Muhammad Ali-esque steps he takes around the ball... I'm pretty sure I'm straight, but that's some of the sexiest shit I've seen another guy do.
@@dec2721 We were all straight until Alcaraz added 15 pounds of muscle, beat Djokovic, and got a fade
Not satisfying, you should say terrifying.
I don't think we will ever see Federer's like in terms of sheer beauty of his game. I get what Gill is saying about Sinner's forehand. I really enjoy it when he unleashes it, infact I really appreciate his groundstrokes on both sides, there is something wonderously creamy smooth and powerful about them. But inbetween strokes he is indeed like Bambi on ice, and although he is very quick, his movement isn't quite comfortable, as if he hasn't quite grown into his body..it's a strange combination. Love the kid though.
there's something wrong with his diet. very skinny for a early 20-something man. Despite that, he can clearly hit the ball hard, but he looks like a giraffe with his limbs splaying everywhere when he runs. just odd
@@BOZ_11 I expect he will fill out..yes he is a little giraffe like 🙂
Federer who? You mean the beauty of such elegance at skipping the roland garros 3 times AFRAID to lose to Nadal? Federer was not injured or ill, he is simply a coward
@@rogerreverence4737 Fed's clay win rate is basically the same as Mats Wilander, and Fed had stiffer opposition than Mats
@@rogerreverence4737 what does that have to do with the aesthetics of the shot making which was the point under discussion. It just seems like a poor excuse for an unwarranted attack.
I totally agree, delpo’s forehand was beautiful and one of a kind. Such a elegant and simple take back, but still so deadly. And certainly the best part is the sound he generates from contact
Haha he had a long take back
Hi Gill,
This is off topic. I should have sent this comment earlier, The Alcaraz’ win at Wimbledon amazed me. I thought….in the last 30 years, Sampras, Federer and Djokovic collectively have won 22 of the last 30 Wimbledons! The other eight were Rafa (2) Murray (2), Hewitt, Ivanisevic, & Krajicek. That’s why to me it is such a big deal that Alcaraz won! I’m older so I remember a lot of those wins. I know you’ve probably already thought of all the stats, but isn’t it amazing? I had to get that off my chest!
Charles
I think Rublev’s chance to get past QF is mostly dependent on his draw and his mentality, not on the event- this year he lost both his QF appearances to Djokovic, which he can’t feel too bad about. But last year his two QF losses were to Cilic at the French and Tiafoe at the USO, both of which he went into the favorite. All 4 of these were at different Grand Slams.
I think he’s a lot mentally stronger now than he was last year, and if he had that kind of draw luck again he would be much more likely to capitalize on it. But with Alcaraz in full form and Djokovic unrestricted by travel, who knows if he’ll have those opportunities again.
What a stupid comment
Mailbag is my favourite part of this channel. Surpasses post match and other videos for me
These mailbags are great. Excellent participation from community and of course, great insights from Gil
I love Korda's groundstrokes. They look so smooth and effortless
The way you ranked the top 10 forehands so accurately on the fly was brilliant! Could see an amazing balanced brain superbly enGROSSed for a valuable ten seconds to start with.
2:55 Oops, Gill the Goat confirming the weak era argument
Great commentary, as always! I'd add to the list of aesthetic shots (if we include retired players) Nalbandian's groundstrokes, especially the backhand. I've once seen him live up close, and it was a thing of beauty.
ELO isn't lacking objectively compared to the current system, it just focuses on a slightly different goal than the ATP/WTA rankings. In terms of objectively ranking skill level, it is better than ATP/WTA rankings. Neither option is perfect, both are reliant on parameters set by people defining the system.
However, ATP/WTA rankings are better for the sport since it more naturally adapts to the (intended) significance of the tournament and enables finals, SFs, etc. to be given far greater reward.
Thank you very much for answering my question, Gill. It’s greatly appreciated. Enjoy your vacay! ☀️
The Zverev question was well answered. He broke through as the potential next big thing in 2017, six years later he has reached one major final and has one top 10 win at a major, you would have to lean towards no at this stage. He hasn't exactly been knocking on the door.
Josh exactly
On point with the forehand ranking. I would put Wawrinka's backhand as a stunner as well. Such a free flowing devastating stroke.
Ranking before i watch yours, will edit with thoughts after i watch:
1. Alcaraz
2. Stefanos
3. Djokovic
4. Rublev
5. Ruud
6. Sinner
7. Fritz
8. Rune
9. Medvedev
10. Tiafoe
edit: we placed rublev differently, 4-6 are quite close, I just looked at Rublev's as more consistent and less error prone and boosted him above even though it's not as big a weapon as Ruud/Sinner. And then we placed Medvedev differently, I put him lower, you put higher, we kinda reversed our reasonings there. But reasonably close, I think I lean towards your Medvedev ranking cause he doesnt miss it much
I agree with more of this than Gills but I think ruud is even lower. No way his forehand is that destructive. Rublev is consistent and distructive
I think sinner should be above rublev and ruud in terms of forehands. Ruud and Rublev will lose to Sinner most of the time when trading forehands. They just can't handle his power and will have forced errors. The top three is not debatable. They are clearly better.
@@ngoduy3110 fine, I can accept sinner above rublev but any of the others (outside the top 3). So still disagree with gills 7th ranking for him
@@ngoduy3110 it's a trade off between consistency and ability to hit through court and produced forced winners, hard to choose. Rublev almost never misses his and places it well, but he cant straight up overpower people as well as Jannik can. I think it's pretty clear we can put these guys in tiers as following:
tier 1: carlos/stef
tier 2: novak
tier 3: rublev, ruud, sinner
tier 4: fritz, rune, medvedev
tier 5: tiafoe
players within each tier are pretty close and the tradeoffs are often consistency/defense for power.
Love the aesthetic shots question. I’d add Musetti’s backhand, even the sound of it is satisfying. Shapo’s signature jumping down the line bh/fh. Also Novak’s forehand return of serve where he steps in and whips the ball cross court, hitting the line w ridiculous angle
Zverev has won 2 times the ATP Finals and Olympic Gold. To me, that's enough proof that he can win a GS. Also, he played the US Open final in 2020. Together with Daniil, at 20 ATP ttiles each, the two more accomplished players after the big three.
In that USO final in 2020, he had a two-set-and-a-break lead, and managed to choke it away. People have always said Zverev's nerve management is his biggest problem, and unless he works on it I don't see how he can get over the hurdle in GS semis and finals, as Gill said.
The ability is definitely there, it's just whether he can show up mentally at the key points or not.
A lol
Almost exactly a year ago the Top 10’s top 10 FH question was asked as well. Boy is it a very different list this time around
Nice video mate 👍 I'm from the UK and I enjoyed your premier league analogy 😂 keep up the good work
Yeah! I thought they made a lot of sense. You know more about football than you think, Gill!
Gill you scared the shit out of me! I turn on my car my phone is connected to car speakers and all i hear is Gills voice booming, almost caused an accident mate. Love your content ❤
Regarding the benefits of analytics for tennis fans -
For the hardcore fans, i feel like better analytics will improve tennis discussions. Even though there aren’t positions to compare in tennis, there are traits (eg forehands, serves, etc) to compare. Looking at the bigger picture, even though tennis is a results based sport, sometimes people dont agree with the rankings (most notably ruud). Analytics can help prove or disprove if a player has the quality to justify their ranking
Goffin!! Love it. Love watching his smooth game.
Was Berrettini forehand mentioned?
Hey, Gill, really love your content, I feel like you are the only one who provides such in depth analysis of tennis matches, Anyway while watching this video, I feel like you have gotten a lot slimmer, or am I the only one misperceiving things
Hi bill . i would mention beretini's forehand
WTA vs ATP forehand. Top WTA forehands need some love too! Graf, Serena, etc. 25:38 Serena's serve, duh! Everyone else looks awkward by comparison.
Zverev had his one Slam on his racquet (x3 in that final), and he gave it to his friend Thiem, which made me happy for good guy Dominic. Emotionally-weak now has to face Djokaraz(vedev)...😨
Yes, it will be very difficult for Zverev to win a slam at this point. Zverev actually had two chances at winning a slam. USO 2020(should have won, but choked) and FO 2022(may have went all the way if not for the injury).
About Zverev winning a GS, the right question isn’t CAN he win a GS but WILL he do it one day?
My top 10 forehands, based particularly on recent form:
1) Alcaraz
2) Sinner (or Djokovic)
3) Djokovic (or Sinner)
4) Rublev
5) Tsitsipas
6) Ruud
7) Rune
8) Fritz
9) Medvedev
10) Tiafoe
First question - Gill was so polite to say that Fed was actually a weak era champ! 😂🎉
re: aesthetic shot; I think one of the more uniquely powerful and effective shots in the game, that I think is also great to watch, is JJ Wolf's ad-side slice serve. Nothing really like it on the tour.
Hey @Gill, I would be interested to know where would u rank the forehands of the following players if they were still in the top 10, Rafa, Fed, Thiem and Zverev. I feel Rafa and Fed would be top 2 and Prime Thiem top 5. While Zverev would be last 😂
Gill looks like he's been hitting the gym!! :)
Thanks!
Thank you!
My Nole always motivated 🃏🐐💪🏆
I like that the Tour's ranking system just takes the bare facts- who won more points on Tour over the year.
But I dont like that we discarded grass seedings. This was a very bad move.
I'd like the science/data to determine seedings - at least at the Slams as long as all 4 use the same data sets
Alcaraz's dropshot is one of a kind 😊
Rafa's forehand. Though he likes Roger's forehand.
His fh is to often short.
Zverev can do it, he won gold. I heard he’s been coming off an injury. His personal life might have an effect on his performance.
Chris Eubanks continues to move up. He could train up all his weaknesses. By the way, Gill, I also predicted a top rank of 8. But now that I re-evaluate, I see a timeline where Chris Eubanks and his team key in on all his weaknesses, and improve his skill and technique in each of these areas. Much like Djokovic, who has modified several aspects of his game through the years.
Last time I saw this kind of rise was with Karatsev’s sudden rise and success over several months back in like 2020 or 2021. I wish Karatsev and his team great success.
I don’t know why, but I feel Eubanks and his team have the potential for consistent long term success.
Korda has put together beautiful tennis many times in these past years. He should ask his uncle Taprek for help (or his uncle Cam)
after a few years more almost all the players will have match up issues with alcaraz😂
Don’t need a few years, just a few months. This guy improves and learns in real time
@@rublo1agreed but i want his serve to improve and should use the slice more against players like sinner or zverev
Sinners Forehand is a weakness under pressure. For sure he can hit powerfull shots, but against the topplayers its not consistend enough. His backhand is way better.
Berrittini forehand you missed
No Berrittini forehand in the top 10? 🤔
I think after Wimbledon it’s safe to say Chris eubanks should have a top 10 forehand easily but I can see the argument for consistency MAYBE
Check pinned comment
Gill Gross : You missed one. Roger Federer won 5 Wimbledons in a row & went to a 6th Wimby Final in a Row in 2008 losing to Rafa in an epic battle - a match dubbed the Greatest Tennis Match of All Time! Roger had mononucleosis in 2008 which RF did not advertise!
Federer of course won 5 US Ooens in a row like you pointed out & was in a 6th straight USO Final in 2009 - a yr in which Roger won Roland Garros, Wimbledon & was in the Finals of both Aussie Open & of course USO.
Music exactly
I’ll put Wu Yibing’s forehand in the top 10
100% Gil on Sascha
Sinner forehand was strong and powerful 💪💪💪💪💪
In the top 10 forehands you forgot Berretini who in my opinion has a better fh than djokovic and in my opinion a guy like Jarry has a better fh than tiafoe ,medvedev and holger
He only ranked the forehands of the current top 10..
With Zverev I’m equally torn. First off, I fully agree that the Hamburg title is being so overrated. He didn’t even face anyone in the top 50, so how good could he have possibly looked? This is just like when a top player breezes through his first 3 rounds at majors; like cool, but you didn’t play anyone who can actually push you.
But at the same time, Zverev’s peak level in best of 3 has shown he can basically beat anybody. He’s beaten Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic in huge matches, particularly Djokovic who he beat at the finals of the ATP Finals, semifinals at Turin, and the semifinals of the Olympics. Zverev also has improved significantly in best of 5 after making his first SF at AO2020, and had a very consistent set of 2 years at the slam level. In 2021 he took two tight losses to Djokovic at the hard court majors, a 5-set loss to Tsitsipas at the RG semifinals, and lost in 5 to Felix at Wimbledon. None of these are bad losses. And we all know how RG22 went. Even this year, he’s shown he still has it at the grand slam level by making the semis at RG.
But then this is meaningless if he can’t get himself over the finish line. Will he always choke on the final stages? That’s what makes this question so interesting; you have a guy who has shown clear potential of a grand slam winning level and has practically won everything on tour except for it, but he keeps losing tight matches in the late stages. You’ve gotta think something will come together for him to win at some point, but will he be able to convert these opportunities?
I think this will stay a fascinating question forever. If you’ve been watching tennis since 2016/17, then you have to be a “see it to believe it” guy by now, like Gill is. I understand a new fan sees his talent and loves what they see, but the rest of us have gone through seeing him choke in the QFs for 3-4 years straight, or exhaust himself by going 5 sets with fringe top 100 players. Then we saw him improve, but still have high profile chokes, just in the SFs and Finals now instead of earlier. It’s been such a rollercoaster ride. We also can’t discount what these allegations can do to his career. At some point, the ATP has gotta suspend him, right?
SJ exactly but best of 3 and best of 5 is too different things imho to maintain the level I give him a better shot to win Olympics next year then a slam even tho he could win but I’m gil prove to me u can do it
@@colethomas903 He has shown he can play at a high level in best of 5 though. 2020-22 were very good and generally he was only losing to great players at slams like Djokovic, Thiem, Tsitsipas, and Nadal. And all of these losses were very close. Plus this year he played at a pretty great level at RG until the SF.
He’s gonna keep making some semifinals and finals. At some point, it feels like he’s gotta convert one of these opportunities, right? Like I’d be pretty shocked if Zverev didn’t at least make the QF at the USO this year if not the semis, depending on the draw. I feel like the semis will be Alcaraz, Djokovic, Medvedev, and then a spot for either Sinner or Zverev,
SJ I agree my only thing is like gil I need to see it before I believe that he can do I believe in him before many times and got burnt I would love to see him win a major I do 100% with you draw is huge for him at the USO he want to meet Djokovic more then the other 2
yeah but where's berrettini in top10 forehands?!
Berrettini is not in the top 10
no berretini?
Look at the pinned comment
You're mistaken consistency with defense and over all game consistency. No one has a terrific forehand that is not consistent with the shot. What about Beretini, he can hit consistent forehand all night but his over all game is not consistent same for rublev but that's not what we are talking about. Forehand is about the damage. Damage has to range the highest. Medvedev has a bad forehand lemme say, so you can understand what we mean by forehand.
Gill, I think Eubanks has a top 5 forehand
Check pinned comment
But,but but, Gill!
His body not declining?
What about the "long list of injuries" Novak carried into & broadcast at Wimby??
You're suggesting that was all BS?😯🤭
GOATdals fearhand makes Weakvaks knees tremble😂 I wonder in little Carlos maes him shake too now 😂
Where is your Claydal 😂😂💉💉💊
This dude has come up
Goatdull has taken more than a week's vac.
@@zetristan4525 yes he take all kind of medicine legal and maybe illegal but now he is 136 on the world
Ruud & Tsitsipas ahead of Rublev wrt to best forehands? No. And yeah, I agree that a "big" forehand as a weapon isn't the most important factor to determine an elite forehand - the other factors should definitely have equal or higher consideration.. And still taking that into account, you're overestimating Ruud & Tsi in comparison to Rublev (especially this year).. You & your other podcast bros just continue to underrate Rublev overall - you can't seem to move past outdated narratives.. it's a shame. To each his own, I guess🤷🏽♀️
Nolet's forehand is the best 💪💪💪
Is that French, or NextGen version?
Angel wrong
Wawrinka is 38 years old. I think that Djokovich wants to win at least 25 Grand Slams which is possible and Alcaraz will be his motivation.
Angles we see Stan at 38 don’t mean anything for Djokovic lol
@@colethomas903 what? I said that Djokovic will play and have motivation because he wants to win more Grand Slams and he will.
Angles what I meant is bringing Stan up and his age doesn’t effect what Djokovic can or will do that is all
@@colethomas903 who said it does?
I think Rune at 9 on the list of forehands is criminally underrating it. If you look it up carefully, his technique is wonderful, better than the guys above him but maybe djokovic and alcaraz. So there is no reason why at some point it won’t be a weapon like his backhand. I think its just that given the importance of the forehand on the skillset it means you gotta have a plan (will you be aggressive ? Will you be more inclined to counterpunch). And at the moment rune is still testing his limits. He can unload big even with a short compact swing, he can defend, he can turn into a wall, his return can be phenomenal but his strategy with it is erratic. I would love you to remake this list in a year because I think Rune will be higher
It’s not, it’s erratic. Yes at some point it will get better, but now he is not top in the top 10, that was Gills point.
@@rublo1 if we’re ranking the stroke in itself, it’s not. Just look at rune’s forehand when he has a clear plan in mind, for example under pressure. He just locks down, is his forehand erratic under pressure ? Or even back in indoors last year, when he committed to an aggressive - stick to the baseline and take time away - strategy. Was it erratic? No. It’s about rune learning info and experience on himself, just like his return will improve not because the stroke will get better (you can see at times how absurdly good it can be) but because his strategy will improve.
@@davidmonnier6477 well we’re not? Didn’t you listen to gill when he said it’s also about consistency and stability when it comes to this ranking, we’re not just talking about lethality or technique
@@rublo1 I know his forehand can be erratic and inconsistent but I also think it’s unfair to attribute it to the stroke (which is the subject of the ranking) when it’s a matter of tactics and strategies. If in a year Gil makes that list again and rune jumps up it won’t mean that the stroke itself improved but that rune’s use. Of it did which isn’t a stroke progression in itself
@@davidmonnier6477 think you’re missing the point, he’s not attributing it to the stroke. This ranking is literally based on who has the best combination of lethality, consistency, and technique/stroke in the top 10 NOW. It can change at any point, as he said, when these players improve. And yes, consistency is part of strategy/tactics/clear decision making, which rune lacks currently
Did I miss Rafa on the top 10 forehand question? Last I checked he is not retired.
Check pinned comment
Fh - Berrettini???? Fh??? Kind of top 6 yes? Why not if not..
?
Check pinned comment
@@GillGross got it, agreed
No Berettini was criminal act
Read the pinned comment. He’s not a top-10 player.
I only like question about how many more slams my Nole will win 🃏🐐🏆
Joker wants to be the GOAT. Yes, he wants more slams. Why? Because Alcaraz will pass 22.
Medvedev's forehand is easily the worst in the top 10 IMO.
Top 10 forehands ever
1 lendl
2 sampras
3 moose
4 gonzo
5 agassi
6 fed
7 rafa
8 djokovic
9 connors
10 becker
11 santoro
are you on crack ? rafa had no serve no net play early on in his career and beat federer in wimbledon . the rafa forehand is clearly the single best weapon in tennis history. lendl and sampras and roger all had great serves to set up their forehands. also novaks forehand is nowhere near top 10.
@@justusbeweel1109 don't forget the us open where Rafa served 140mph. Rafa's bh is the most underrated shot ever - he has a top 3 bh ever. Rafa's fh lands short in the court too much in too many big matches
@@thenbaplayoffs2020you don’t get it, Rafa is the only guy that can land his forehand short without it getting punished consistently . Look at the period between 2005-2009 . Rafa was so raw. He had his legs and his forehand . No net game , no serve and he still beat almost everyone, even Federer on grass and in Australia. When it’s on it’s the best shot in tennis history . The uso2010 is irrelevant because the serve was bad again after that tournament . Your list is super disrespectful and listing big serve guys on the top of your list just shows that you have very little knowledge
Federer should won US 2009, 2011, 2015.
Along with Aus open 2009, Wimbledon 08, 14 and 19. Blew away 7 slams at least easily. Maybe also FO 11.
Should coud wishes
If if if
In that case Wawrinka should have won AO 2017
@@tnuyx9405 he wasn't in the finals!
I reckon Novak against Alcaraz will go the same way Fed and Nadal went against Novak once Novak starting beating them, they'll wither and cower away in his shadow -
🤓
It’ll be fun to see you be wrong
Once Again Gill giving Alcaraz too much credit. Saying Carlos has the best FH in the top 10 is an INSANE clame. Carlos can make some winners from a +1 position although he makes TONS of U Errors.
Best forehand in the world is Nole,s by a big margin. Second is Stef. Carlos has one of the WORST FH in the tour due to his poor reliability and tons of errors.
I understand that Gill being half spaniard always favours Carlos but claiming he has a better FH than Nole is a bit too much. What is next ? Rafa serving better than Isner ? Lets be serious.
Ask chessmaster Medvedev whose forehand he'd rather face.
Alcaraz is might be the best player currently, along with Djokovic, but I don't see Alcaraz's forehand as the best. Djokovic, Sinner, Berrettini, Alcaraz , Rublev
You’re just a crazy nole fan, clearly
@@rublo1 let me guess, and you are just a crazy Alcaraz fan?🤣
@@Nat-le4um im an alcaraz fan, but I’m not crazy. I think both him and Novak are top 3 in forehands. What’s crazy nole vibes is calling alcaraz the worst forehand on tour and calling gill too biased. Keep hating guys
h3llo artists of the world. I think anime x fed/nadal/djoker with respective slick characterizations + their "powers" would be ~a love supreme~ boon to future...somaticizers/movers/shakers. thank the rock for gill // wo@t wo@t