Honestly at this point just remove scorch from the Vulcan and replace it with something else entirely. Chaff clear giant ahould not be able to win against dedicated anti-ubit single target bots like Sabers, Marks, Balls and so on.
@@chesh05 I proposed an idea to Bearlike, rework the Vulcan so it's shooting pattern ressembles the stormcaller : multishots with splash and add a high spread with distance. The idea is that it would make the Vulcan really effective at close range as all the "projectiles" will hit on the same spot so it will destroy crawlers, and it will be less effective vs ranged single targets as only one "projectile" would hit the unit and the rest will scatter around it, so it will still chaff clear a bit while being locked on a single target but won't be a giant killer. Bearlike's answer : "it would be too complicated to understand for players", I disagreed, every game with a flamethrower designed it that way. A flamethrower should have poor accuracy and high spread. It should be devastating at short range and unreliable (at least for single targets) at long range.
maybe they could deal less damage, but also slow units as they got burned? would take more time to kill chaw but still would kill it without killing bigger units. So slowing chaw + mid units/ killing chaw but not enough dmg for semi/big ones - seems like interesting solution.
Otherwise it would be easy to get the stats right but i think items on the vulcan are very hard to balance since both health and damage items make it super strong. Hard to say what would be the best approach. I think giants in this game are supposed to fill multiple roles and provide utility. That's why they are expensive and hard to get into
I'd make scorch an "added flat" damage tech rather than % increase. That way the tech doesn't scale at all with levels, and so with items. Still good against chaff, not as exponentially strong with items/levels vs tanky units.
"Loose formation is bad" Excuse me? It assassinates arcs, sledges, etc. , basically anything relying on splash to chaff clear, it makes your chaff more durable (as some crawlers will be further delayed) and with only two packs of crawlers you can actually get to a Vulcan (without loose formation 3 packs of crawlers won't be even close to close the gap). It makes acid crawlers more reliable and the ONLY downside of loose formation is vs tight replicating crawlers, else it's a "I want to double my chaff capacity" button.
nobody in high mmr are building any units its good against. Except typhoon sometimes. I don't think its a good click vs long range vulcans and if you play close range the enemy just replicates you
I think it's a pretty dumb tech and shouldn't even be in the game. It outright nullifies any of the units you mentioned but against others it does absolutely nothing. I feel like techs shouldn't be that polarizing. The second you see the tech on enemy Crawlers you can forget about building Sledges. A whole archetype gone because of one tech. (and Arclights too but they were already mega niche, but still). Even just the existence of it and the implication that the opponent could click the button warps entire matches. I don't think that's healthy for the game.
I think it's like marksman anti air. If you don't have it, your opponent is allowed to build or keep their starting tarantula or arc light. So yeah, you never click it in practice but if you have it on your card you stop some niche plays from your opponent.
@@TheDolmant Yeah that's how I see it too. It's mostly psychological warfare but when your opponent doesn't take your "bluff" then you can actually punish them pretty badly.
I do not understand why people think Vulcans are OP... The moment a opponent start bring out Fortresses, with shields, Scorch does nothing to them until the shields drop. While your Vulcan is locked on to the chaff in the shield, so even when the shield drops, it still needs a bit more time to disable the shield. Worst of all, when those Fortresses level and so do the shields. The only real counter to that is melters with range, and by that time you deep into multiple giant investment each with tech, vs your opponent single gigant+1tech (aka, he has economy to disrupt your melters with for instance wasps). Anyway, every game is different but Vulcan focused games are not a good way to win as people counter with emp storms, emp snipers, shield, etc...
Just hit 1500 MMR for the first time, thank you again for the excellent videos and commentary!
dev: _farseer weakness: is that its missiles can be intercepted_
farseer missiles: have infinite hp and speed
Holy moly
all i can see is opponent either having shit comps or doing far worse job clearing chaff than needed to get on vulcans
yes you need a lot to kill the vulcans and then you lack in some other area like chaff clear
Honestly at this point just remove scorch from the Vulcan and replace it with something else entirely. Chaff clear giant ahould not be able to win against dedicated anti-ubit single target bots like Sabers, Marks, Balls and so on.
The problem with that, is that if you remove Scorch, they can lose to Level 3 Crawlers. They can't even do their job as a dedicated Chaff killer.
@@chesh05 I proposed an idea to Bearlike, rework the Vulcan so it's shooting pattern ressembles the stormcaller : multishots with splash and add a high spread with distance.
The idea is that it would make the Vulcan really effective at close range as all the "projectiles" will hit on the same spot so it will destroy crawlers, and it will be less effective vs ranged single targets as only one "projectile" would hit the unit and the rest will scatter around it, so it will still chaff clear a bit while being locked on a single target but won't be a giant killer.
Bearlike's answer : "it would be too complicated to understand for players", I disagreed, every game with a flamethrower designed it that way. A flamethrower should have poor accuracy and high spread. It should be devastating at short range and unreliable (at least for single targets) at long range.
maybe they could deal less damage, but also slow units as they got burned? would take more time to kill chaw but still would kill it without killing bigger units. So slowing chaw + mid units/ killing chaw but not enough dmg for semi/big ones - seems like interesting solution.
Otherwise it would be easy to get the stats right but i think items on the vulcan are very hard to balance since both health and damage items make it super strong. Hard to say what would be the best approach. I think giants in this game are supposed to fill multiple roles and provide utility. That's why they are expensive and hard to get into
I'd make scorch an "added flat" damage tech rather than % increase. That way the tech doesn't scale at all with levels, and so with items. Still good against chaff, not as exponentially strong with items/levels vs tanky units.
Can't like the video... 69 likes.
"Loose formation is bad" Excuse me? It assassinates arcs, sledges, etc. , basically anything relying on splash to chaff clear, it makes your chaff more durable (as some crawlers will be further delayed) and with only two packs of crawlers you can actually get to a Vulcan (without loose formation 3 packs of crawlers won't be even close to close the gap).
It makes acid crawlers more reliable and the ONLY downside of loose formation is vs tight replicating crawlers, else it's a "I want to double my chaff capacity" button.
nobody in high mmr are building any units its good against. Except typhoon sometimes. I don't think its a good click vs long range vulcans and if you play close range the enemy just replicates you
I think it's a pretty dumb tech and shouldn't even be in the game. It outright nullifies any of the units you mentioned but against others it does absolutely nothing. I feel like techs shouldn't be that polarizing. The second you see the tech on enemy Crawlers you can forget about building Sledges. A whole archetype gone because of one tech. (and Arclights too but they were already mega niche, but still). Even just the existence of it and the implication that the opponent could click the button warps entire matches. I don't think that's healthy for the game.
@@SurreyEZ I tested it vs long range Vulcan, in aggro 2 horizontal packs are enough
I think it's like marksman anti air. If you don't have it, your opponent is allowed to build or keep their starting tarantula or arc light.
So yeah, you never click it in practice but if you have it on your card you stop some niche plays from your opponent.
@@TheDolmant Yeah that's how I see it too. It's mostly psychological warfare but when your opponent doesn't take your "bluff" then you can actually punish them pretty badly.
I do not understand why people think Vulcans are OP... The moment a opponent start bring out Fortresses, with shields, Scorch does nothing to them until the shields drop. While your Vulcan is locked on to the chaff in the shield, so even when the shield drops, it still needs a bit more time to disable the shield. Worst of all, when those Fortresses level and so do the shields. The only real counter to that is melters with range, and by that time you deep into multiple giant investment each with tech, vs your opponent single gigant+1tech (aka, he has economy to disrupt your melters with for instance wasps). Anyway, every game is different but Vulcan focused games are not a good way to win as people counter with emp storms, emp snipers, shield, etc...