you probably dont care but if you are bored like me during the covid times you can stream pretty much all of the latest movies and series on InstaFlixxer. I've been streaming with my gf recently xD
Ranger Tony I've been addicted to your videos, I just bought this game about a week ago, and it is my favorite of the year! Thanks for all the great explanations, and i'm loving the new Mic and Camera quality! Keep it up! Subscribed.
True thief/rogue was so bad in baldurs gate other then very high levels using traps. Sneak attacks were ok in neverwinter but so many other class combos were sooooo strong.
That is why I loved to play as Fighter/Thief in BG I and II as this made you be great in fight but also be able to open locks and disarm traps when needed. I need to play BG I and II EE with Half-Orc Fighter/Thief soon :)
@@zarddin Human Kensi to level 7 to 12 or 13 then rogue. Rogue eventually lets you use any device so the kensi/rogue can have bracers armor whatever super strong all the benefits of Kensi with no downside. Did a solo run with it BG1 all the way to ToB
In the original unpatched version of Baldur's Gate you could backstab anybody provided you were stealthed/invisible; you didn't have to be behind them at all.
Lovely video I would love to try a rogue in human race even if it's not the best race for it do you happen to know a good build I could use cause I am really bad at making builds tyvm
Meh I Doubt i can get eveything I want into a single UA-cam post, Why play a Rouge when Slayers are in the game? Lets ignore Sneak Attack for a moment and look at Rouge vs Slayer in other aspects Slayers have a better HD Better BaB Better Armor Pro Better Weapon Pro Better Saves (Fort + Ref not just Ref) and over-all get +10 Extra to hit and +5 Extra Damage per swing over the Rouge and +4 Extra to hit vs the right enemie becouse of the BaB we also get an extra attack if we are both just not duel wielding, The Rouge gets ... Trickery and UMD, Tell me is trickery and UMD Worth the +10-14 Extra to Hit, +5 Damage per swing +1 Extra Attack Bonus Armor Bonus Weapon Pro and a better HD? if we talk damage / Sneak Attack ok if you land every single attack vs a slayer the rogue will do more damage thanks to sneak attack but ... the Slayer is more lilly to hit his target then the rouge even the Knife Master is ... not going to compete to the Slayer if not every single attack is going to land, as a slayer you can abuse his class features and go Str Based duel Wield as you dont give a damage about Dex in that case Then suddenly the Rouge is not doing as much damage as a Slayer even the Knife Master wont do as much damage as a slayer if we are talking about say Duel wield / You do have to roll to hit coz +10-14 Extra TO HIT with the extra +5 Damage PER ATTACK and the fact your adverage weapon die on a Slayer is gonna be better then the Rouge is just going to mean that if you do miss a single attack as a Rouge the odds of a Slayer missing is nil, And thus will just have even more extra attacks land (thus more sneak attack) then the Rouge, Let me put it like this lets ignore Duel wielding lets say just 1 weapon attack 4 Attacks Slayer vs Rouge with +10 Extra to hit +4 Extra (for +14) over the Rouge due to class features means the slayer is prob going to land 1 more attack then the Rouge at least maybe even 2. 2 or even 3 Extra Attacks with 6d6 Sneak Attack adds up to 12-18d6 Extra Sneak Attack (Ignore the +15 extra damage we did thanks to class feature and the extra damage dice most likly based on weapon lets say there both using the same weapon a 12-16d6 Extra Sneak Attack will outdo your D8 Sneak Attack damage, Example lets say out of your 3 Attacks on your Rouge 1 attack missed thanks to having a lower To hit then the Slayer, so you landed 2 Attacks, you get 20d8 Sneak Attack damage = 90 damage on adverage, the Slayer gets +5 Damage per attack coz class feature so if all 4 attacks land +20 damage right there, If we say 3 attacks Land for the Slayer your doing a total of 18d6 + 15 damage from class feature for a total of 78 Damage, if all 4 attacks land then we add an extra 6d6+5 Damage for a total of 30 extra damage so 108 vs 90 damage 18 more damage Slayer vs your Knife Master, and mind you this is a Slayer using a Dagger which i dunno why, You can get more damage on adverage with other weapons your not forced into the Dagger situation as a KM vs a Slayer whos free to pick his weapons so d4 vs d8 would mean 2 extra adverage damage per attack that means 4x2=8 extra damage added on, PROVIDED of course this is without duel wielding. Not to mention the f-in Better BaB over the Rogue / Arsonis Vivi allows the Slayer to get feats quicker over both of said classes meaning builds come on line THAT much quicker Meaning i can get to that A Game THAT much faster then the other 2 classes ... WAY to many people tend to focus on 1 thing and its what makes most guides and walkthoughs stupid as shit as they suffer from tunnel vision. I have a huge wall of text as it is ... im not going to talk about every single other thing we can add into this arguement like duel wielding and such. TLDR : Extra Attacks Bonus to Hit Bonus Damage added to hit More HPS Better Armor Better Saves over-all Freedom of weapons which can mean better damage over-all ALL FOR Trickery / Use Magic Device ... WORTH IT? NOPE! and when you look at damage you have to look at stuff past the Sneak Attack (Weapons/the to hit bonus / extra attacks and the class features) Granted both classes can use the same weapon but the Slayer isnt force to.
I'm playing right now and my main is Knife Master but I'm playing with mercenaries and I also have STR Slayer (LG Deliverer) in my team. Both will fight with 2 weapons. I picked Knife Master for my main for a few reasons. Not everything is about HP and BAB but 10d8 is better than 6d6 or 7d6 with a feat. Trickery is great for main char in my opinion. 5 skill points every level vs 3 skill points every level and that with 12 INT at start + potion +2 all stats means I will have 14 INT and max out: athletics, mobility, persuasion, perception, stealth, trickery. Depends on your party UMD can also be nice as you can use wands and scrolls if you want to buff and be much stronger than Slayer but I prefer to sell scrolls and wands because my rogue is greedy. But you can use it to cast some buffs that can be only casted on yourself. You get more AC as naked with your DEX than STR Slayer will get in his armor. +1-6 AC vs light blades is a nice bonus. Debilitating injury = Bewildered -> from -2 to -8 AC for my enemy or if he have weak AC but can hit hard Disoriented -> from -2 to -8 Hit chance for my enemy Slayer gets Quarry and Improved Quarry much later and +4 to hit vs 1 enemy that also makes you spend your round casting it is not as good as -8 AC or -8 Hit chance for enemy when you hit him. DMG from DEX not STR means you have 1 stat that is giving you AC, Hit chance, DMG and you can focus on that stat while having the rest stats decent. Also looking at level 20 Master Slayer is muuuch weaker than Master Strike that rogue gets. Yeah I know many enemies can have immunity at that point but still... Master Slayer - You must use a standard action to do a single attack and enemy must do a fortitude save 10 + 1/2 slayer level + INT (xD) modifier to kill a target. So about DC 20-22? Master Strike - Each time a rogue deals sneak attack damage enemy must do a fortitude save 10 + 1/2 rogue level + DEX (!) modifier to kill a target. So about DC 30? OFC enemy after that is immune to this for 24h BUT if you are flanking people with your Slayer you need 3 x standard action to try to kill 3 enemies while rogue can use 1 round to try and kill all 3. That is why Slayer will be better using his standard attacks instead of Master Slayer while rogue can do his standard attacks and get a Master Strike as a bonus to them. Master Strike is the best lvl 20 insta death ability in game I think. And with stealth it can mean that while your team is charging enemy front line you already killed enemy summoner, necromancer or other caster :) Also important: Evasion - Let say there are 5 fireballs coming at you and let say they deal 60 dmg each. You have to pass reflex (again DEX) save. If Slayer will pass all 5 he will get hit for 150 dmg if he will fail all 5 he will be hit for 300 dmg. Rogue will have better DEX and so better save and it will be harder for a rogue to fail this save and if you pass all 5 saves you get hit by ZERO dmg and if you fail all 5 you get hit for 150 dmg. Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge - Rogue don't lose his bonus from DEX to AC and can't be flat-footed and can't be flanked. That means Slayer can do 0 sneak attack dmg vs rogue. While rogue can still do his 10d6 or 10d8 as a knife master and flank you for bonus to hit and make you flat-footed to make you lose some AC. I think both are great but Slayer is more of a run and do as much DMG as you can while rogue is more of a do DMG and also survive traps, spells and don't get hit by enemies and use skills guy. I only wonder what Slayer Talents can Slayer pick vs what Rogue Talents can rogue pick. But that I will see while I play :P
@@davidlopez6517 there are a few things you 100% have to consider whenever doing a power guide some dont apply to the comment above but ill name some that at least slightly do apply A) Simple vs Complex, something like a Str Based Fighter Two handed that just gets STR as high as possible pick up a two handed weapon and power attack feat is super simple and will CRUSH Face, something like a Wizard can crush face but is more complex, some consider simple builds 2 boring some dont, Debaitible on which is more fun, its a biased reason and they both seem to take the same complex nature over-all, But Slayer is a bit easyer you can just be a STR Based Duel wielder and exploit the Talents to go duel wielding for example, Easyer to build Possibly Slayer. B) When dos the build come online / Max out? and with what? This is something that 100% Favors the Slayer over the Rogue, Early-Mid-Late Game transistion period, some might consider end game level 20 Which is fine but most who play this game consider more realisticly level 16-17 end game which is also fine, We have to talk about both caps and the level up process Slayer has a better HD, Better Armor Pro, Better Weapon Pro, and better Saves then the rogue, In the early stages of the game Fort is arguely the best Save in the game (Early game) Just becouse of all the posion/disease and such that are around, and the amount of damage being tossed at you as well the winner in this catagory is CLEARLY the Slayer, He is tankyer is more likly to make his saves less likly to be hit not only that but a Higher BaB Then the rouge means easyer to hit targets and qualifies for some feats way earlyer then the Rogue. His Slayer Talents and such gives him extra damage and extra to hit as well making it Much easyer to hit / kill things then you first might think, His survivibility is much higher and in the early-mid game being able to hit things havea good AC and saves is more important, in the mid-late game this dosnt matter as much but you have to consider the leveling up process Slayer wins in this process hands down no real contest realy yeah at level 20 they both qualify but the Slayer in the level up process has a much easyer time then the Rogue Knifemaster vs say Slayer Deliverer is debaitible Deliverer is considerd a fucken BEAST as I Mention time and again the Higher BaB Means feats / build comes online sooner then the rogue, Higher HD Means take more hits, Better Armor Pro means in the early-mid game im less likly to be hit, Better Saves means i have less to worrie about in the early game vs Posion and disease way to many ppl only consider a build at CAP and assume X/Y/Z When they should be looking at the larger picture hell there are videos show casing just how BEASTLY a straight Slayer honestly is. The only real reason to be a rogue is the few extra skill points / roleplaying aspects Slayer is just WAY Better. Edit : There was math done and such, The Knife Master Damage output isnt as far ahead as you think in front of the Slayer for multible reasons A) The Higher BaB Gives Slayer more attacks thus more Sneak Attacks B) The Bonus to hit and damage ability gives a boost to each attack damage and to hit C) The Improve quarry and such abilitys give the Slayer a MUCH Higher chance to land all of his attacks, a Knife master is prob not going to land half as many attacks as a Slayer Why? Again the BaB Gives more Attacks and makes his attacks easyer to land, At level 20 with just class abilitys and such the Slayer has +14 Extra to hit over the Knife master/Rogue and such, Meaning even the last attack on the Slayer has just as high of a chance (1 point off) from the Knife Master BEST Attack, So the Slayers WORST Attack is just 1 point less then the Knife master BEST Attack, The Rogue can and will miss some of his attacks, The Slayer on adverage will land twice as many attacks maybe even more. I Mean this dosnt matter if we are playing easy diff or such but still soo the Damage output is higher for the Slayer then you think in all honesty just becouse of his attacks more likly to land And likly to land at earlyer levels as well Better Survivibility just period for the most part Easyer game mech if you so choose The Slayer is just insanely under-rated / Godlike.
This got a Love / Like? Neat, But yeah ppl focus WAY 2 much on one catagory and tend to suffer from Tunnel Vision, Higher BaB = More Attacks, Better to Hit, Faster Feat Progression and such, Its been proven the best pure archer out there is basicly just a Slayer, The only thing that can kinda compete is something that mass multiclassed a bunch and its ONLY at the higher levels not at the lower to mid levels. higher HD means better tanking Better Saves Can take the same feats from rogue / Ranger tree which means he can abuse certain builds just like the Ranger can but with even more benefits Better armor and Weapon Pro Slayer has been called one of the most under-rated classes and thats coz way to many ppl have tunnel vision and only focus on Sneak attack calling it the 'Better' But in truth its realy not when you consider eveything eles going for the slayer ...
@@zarddin Kinda been proven a Slayer is just the BEST Archer out there and rogue is just over-rated as WAY to many ppl focus on just the SA thinking its all that, Better BaB means quicker Feat Progression / Better feats being taken quicker, Meaning at the early-mid game Slayer is just Better his build comes online WAY quicker then the rogues or such by sevrol levels...
Rogue is still complete garbage. The only reason rogue became ok in pathfinder kingmaker is because sneak attack is incorrectly impelemented in this game (as well as many other things) and you can sneak right into the face when an opponent is just flanked. (It was correctly implemented in NWN and NWN2, so it was only 1/3 of your attacks rounded up after stealth if you initiate the combat are sneak attacks, or the target should be stunned, disabled, knocked down). But now sneak attack is also available to Slayer, Vivisec guy and to many spellcater classes. So Ranger can get 5d6 sneak attack as a spell later and get a pet, full bab and other good stuff so why need rogue. Rogue bab progression is average so you won't hit a thing on a proper difficulty. Rogues are only good as roleplaying characters coz of your character story, etc or if you need some dex weilding weapon to work.
Why play Rouge when Slayer Excist? Better HD Better Armor Better Weapon Choices Better to Hit (More attacks land thus more sneak attacks) Better Saves over-all an Extra Attack (Thus more Sneak Attack damage) an Extra damage per attack thanks to class feature AND the ability to just abuse game features and ignore Dex and still be able to duel wield coz Class Features of both Rogue + Ranger. Fuck the Rogue its Complete utter Trash Slayer is by far Better in like every single aspect, Excuse me, in eveything except not having Trickery and Use Magic Device.
This guy knows his stuff... some people are blessed with good looks.
definitely one of the top 3 pathfinder: kingmaker content creators
Thanks for the support
you probably dont care but if you are bored like me during the covid times you can stream pretty much all of the latest movies and series on InstaFlixxer. I've been streaming with my gf recently xD
@Cayson Emilio yea, I have been watching on Instaflixxer for since december myself :)
Ranger Tony I've been addicted to your videos, I just bought this game about a week ago, and it is my favorite of the year! Thanks for all the great explanations, and i'm loving the new Mic and Camera quality! Keep it up!
Subscribed.
Thanks :)
Big up rangertony. I swear you single-handedly made me decent at pathfinder kingmaker. Thanks m8
Glad I could help
A "attack of opportunity" skill based on dex that any class could take would indeed be pretty neat.
hi RangerTony. Thank you for these wonderful guides. Love from the netherlands
Your welcome. Thanks for the support 😀
Rogues and Slayer might be my favorite classes right now
Just spec a few levels in rogue and the rest in slayer. GG
for head canon sneak attack is using small blades to cut in the cracks or gaps or armor
thats why fighters cannot do it with their big on swords
True thief/rogue was so bad in baldurs gate other then very high levels using traps. Sneak attacks were ok in neverwinter but so many other class combos were sooooo strong.
That is why I loved to play as Fighter/Thief in BG I and II as this made you be great in fight but also be able to open locks and disarm traps when needed.
I need to play BG I and II EE with Half-Orc Fighter/Thief soon :)
@@zarddin Human Kensi to level 7 to 12 or 13 then rogue. Rogue eventually lets you use any device so the kensi/rogue can have bracers armor whatever super strong all the benefits of Kensi with no downside. Did a solo run with it BG1 all the way to ToB
In the original unpatched version of Baldur's Gate you could backstab anybody provided you were stealthed/invisible; you didn't have to be behind them at all.
Hey, and slayer is not better ?
Just wait and see...
I think Slayer is better if you want to be more versatile. Damage wise they are probably pretty close to one another.
Lovely video I would love to try a rogue in human race even if it's not the best race for it do you happen to know a good build I could use cause I am really bad at making builds tyvm
Have a look at my trippy sneak attack knife master rogue build. It will work as human as well
@@rangertony just made one hehe ty
Nice video.
Meh I Doubt i can get eveything I want into a single UA-cam post, Why play a Rouge when Slayers are in the game?
Lets ignore Sneak Attack for a moment and look at Rouge vs Slayer in other aspects
Slayers have a better HD Better BaB Better Armor Pro Better Weapon Pro Better Saves (Fort + Ref not just Ref) and over-all get +10 Extra to hit and +5 Extra Damage per swing over the Rouge and +4 Extra to hit vs the right enemie
becouse of the BaB we also get an extra attack if we are both just not duel wielding,
The Rouge gets ... Trickery and UMD, Tell me is trickery and UMD Worth the +10-14 Extra to Hit, +5 Damage per swing +1 Extra Attack Bonus Armor Bonus Weapon Pro and a better HD?
if we talk damage / Sneak Attack ok if you land every single attack vs a slayer the rogue will do more damage thanks to sneak attack but ... the Slayer is more lilly to hit his target then the rouge even the Knife Master is ... not going to compete to the Slayer if not every single attack is going to land, as a slayer you can abuse his class features and go Str Based duel Wield as you dont give a damage about Dex in that case Then suddenly the Rouge is not doing as much damage as a Slayer even the Knife Master wont do as much damage as a slayer if we are talking about say Duel wield / You do have to roll to hit coz +10-14 Extra TO HIT with the extra +5 Damage PER ATTACK and the fact your adverage weapon die on a Slayer is gonna be better then the Rouge is just going to mean that if you do miss a single attack as a Rouge the odds of a Slayer missing is nil, And thus will just have even more extra attacks land (thus more sneak attack) then the Rouge, Let me put it like this lets ignore Duel wielding lets say just 1 weapon attack
4 Attacks Slayer vs Rouge with +10 Extra to hit +4 Extra (for +14) over the Rouge due to class features means the slayer is prob going to land 1 more attack then the Rouge at least maybe even 2.
2 or even 3 Extra Attacks with 6d6 Sneak Attack adds up to 12-18d6 Extra Sneak Attack (Ignore the +15 extra damage we did thanks to class feature and the extra damage dice most likly based on weapon lets say there both using the same weapon a 12-16d6 Extra Sneak Attack will outdo your D8 Sneak Attack damage,
Example lets say out of your 3 Attacks on your Rouge 1 attack missed thanks to having a lower To hit then the Slayer, so you landed 2 Attacks, you get 20d8 Sneak Attack damage = 90 damage on adverage,
the Slayer gets +5 Damage per attack coz class feature so if all 4 attacks land +20 damage right there, If we say 3 attacks Land for the Slayer your doing a total of 18d6 + 15 damage from class feature for a total of 78 Damage, if all 4 attacks land then we add an extra 6d6+5 Damage for a total of 30 extra damage so 108 vs 90 damage 18 more damage Slayer vs your Knife Master,
and mind you this is a Slayer using a Dagger which i dunno why, You can get more damage on adverage with other weapons your not forced into the Dagger situation as a KM vs a Slayer whos free to pick his weapons so d4 vs d8 would mean 2 extra adverage damage per attack that means 4x2=8 extra damage added on, PROVIDED of course this is without duel wielding.
Not to mention the f-in Better BaB over the Rogue / Arsonis Vivi allows the Slayer to get feats quicker over both of said classes meaning builds come on line THAT much quicker Meaning i can get to that A Game THAT much faster then the other 2 classes ... WAY to many people tend to focus on 1 thing and its what makes most guides and walkthoughs stupid as shit as they suffer from tunnel vision.
I have a huge wall of text as it is ... im not going to talk about every single other thing we can add into this arguement like duel wielding and such.
TLDR : Extra Attacks Bonus to Hit Bonus Damage added to hit More HPS Better Armor Better Saves over-all Freedom of weapons which can mean better damage over-all ALL FOR Trickery / Use Magic Device ... WORTH IT? NOPE! and when you look at damage you have to look at stuff past the Sneak Attack (Weapons/the to hit bonus / extra attacks and the class features) Granted both classes can use the same weapon but the Slayer isnt force to.
I'm playing right now and my main is Knife Master but I'm playing with mercenaries and I also have STR Slayer (LG Deliverer) in my team. Both will fight with 2 weapons.
I picked Knife Master for my main for a few reasons.
Not everything is about HP and BAB but 10d8 is better than 6d6 or 7d6 with a feat.
Trickery is great for main char in my opinion.
5 skill points every level vs 3 skill points every level and that with 12 INT at start + potion +2 all stats means I will have 14 INT and max out: athletics, mobility, persuasion, perception, stealth, trickery.
Depends on your party UMD can also be nice as you can use wands and scrolls if you want to buff and be much stronger than Slayer but I prefer to sell scrolls and wands because my rogue is greedy. But you can use it to cast some buffs that can be only casted on yourself.
You get more AC as naked with your DEX than STR Slayer will get in his armor.
+1-6 AC vs light blades is a nice bonus.
Debilitating injury = Bewildered -> from -2 to -8 AC for my enemy or if he have weak AC but can hit hard Disoriented -> from -2 to -8 Hit chance for my enemy
Slayer gets Quarry and Improved Quarry much later and +4 to hit vs 1 enemy that also makes you spend your round casting it is not as good as -8 AC or -8 Hit chance for enemy when you hit him.
DMG from DEX not STR means you have 1 stat that is giving you AC, Hit chance, DMG and you can focus on that stat while having the rest stats decent.
Also looking at level 20 Master Slayer is muuuch weaker than Master Strike that rogue gets. Yeah I know many enemies can have immunity at that point but still...
Master Slayer - You must use a standard action to do a single attack and enemy must do a fortitude save 10 + 1/2 slayer level + INT (xD) modifier to kill a target. So about DC 20-22?
Master Strike - Each time a rogue deals sneak attack damage enemy must do a fortitude save 10 + 1/2 rogue level + DEX (!) modifier to kill a target. So about DC 30?
OFC enemy after that is immune to this for 24h BUT if you are flanking people with your Slayer you need 3 x standard action to try to kill 3 enemies while rogue can use 1 round to try and kill all 3. That is why Slayer will be better using his standard attacks instead of Master Slayer while rogue can do his standard attacks and get a Master Strike as a bonus to them.
Master Strike is the best lvl 20 insta death ability in game I think.
And with stealth it can mean that while your team is charging enemy front line you already killed enemy summoner, necromancer or other caster :)
Also important:
Evasion - Let say there are 5 fireballs coming at you and let say they deal 60 dmg each. You have to pass reflex (again DEX) save. If Slayer will pass all 5 he will get hit for 150 dmg if he will fail all 5 he will be hit for 300 dmg. Rogue will have better DEX and so better save and it will be harder for a rogue to fail this save and if you pass all 5 saves you get hit by ZERO dmg and if you fail all 5 you get hit for 150 dmg.
Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge - Rogue don't lose his bonus from DEX to AC and can't be flat-footed and can't be flanked. That means Slayer can do 0 sneak attack dmg vs rogue. While rogue can still do his 10d6 or 10d8 as a knife master and flank you for bonus to hit and make you flat-footed to make you lose some AC.
I think both are great but Slayer is more of a run and do as much DMG as you can while rogue is more of a do DMG and also survive traps, spells and don't get hit by enemies and use skills guy.
I only wonder what Slayer Talents can Slayer pick vs what Rogue Talents can rogue pick. But that I will see while I play :P
Knifemaster has a higher dose ceiling than slayer, and the debilitating sneak attacks outright kill anything that doesn't resist the stat drain
@@davidlopez6517 there are a few things you 100% have to consider whenever doing a power guide
some dont apply to the comment above but ill name some that at least slightly do apply
A) Simple vs Complex, something like a Str Based Fighter Two handed that just gets STR as high as possible pick up a two handed weapon and power attack feat is super simple and will CRUSH Face, something like a Wizard can crush face but is more complex, some consider simple builds 2 boring some dont, Debaitible on which is more fun, its a biased reason and they both seem to take the same complex nature over-all, But Slayer is a bit easyer you can just be a STR Based Duel wielder and exploit the Talents to go duel wielding for example, Easyer to build Possibly Slayer.
B) When dos the build come online / Max out? and with what? This is something that 100% Favors the Slayer over the Rogue, Early-Mid-Late Game transistion period, some might consider end game level 20 Which is fine but most who play this game consider more realisticly level 16-17 end game which is also fine, We have to talk about both caps and the level up process
Slayer has a better HD, Better Armor Pro, Better Weapon Pro, and better Saves then the rogue, In the early stages of the game Fort is arguely the best Save in the game (Early game) Just becouse of all the posion/disease and such that are around, and the amount of damage being tossed at you as well
the winner in this catagory is CLEARLY the Slayer, He is tankyer is more likly to make his saves less likly to be hit not only that but a Higher BaB Then the rouge means easyer to hit targets and qualifies for some feats way earlyer then the Rogue. His Slayer Talents and such gives him extra damage and extra to hit as well making it Much easyer to hit / kill things then you first might think, His survivibility is much higher and in the early-mid game being able to hit things havea good AC and saves is more important, in the mid-late game this dosnt matter as much but you have to consider the leveling up process
Slayer wins in this process hands down no real contest realy
yeah at level 20 they both qualify but the Slayer in the level up process has a much easyer time then the Rogue
Knifemaster vs say Slayer Deliverer is debaitible Deliverer is considerd a fucken BEAST
as I Mention time and again the Higher BaB Means feats / build comes online sooner then the rogue, Higher HD Means take more hits, Better Armor Pro means in the early-mid game im less likly to be hit, Better Saves means i have less to worrie about in the early game vs Posion and disease
way to many ppl only consider a build at CAP and assume X/Y/Z When they should be looking at the larger picture hell there are videos show casing just how BEASTLY a straight Slayer honestly is.
The only real reason to be a rogue is the few extra skill points / roleplaying aspects
Slayer is just WAY Better.
Edit : There was math done and such, The Knife Master Damage output isnt as far ahead as you think in front of the Slayer for multible reasons
A) The Higher BaB Gives Slayer more attacks thus more Sneak Attacks
B) The Bonus to hit and damage ability gives a boost to each attack damage and to hit
C) The Improve quarry and such abilitys give the Slayer a MUCH Higher chance to land all of his attacks, a Knife master is prob not going to land half as many attacks as a Slayer
Why? Again the BaB Gives more Attacks and makes his attacks easyer to land, At level 20 with just class abilitys and such the Slayer has +14 Extra to hit over the Knife master/Rogue and such, Meaning even the last attack on the Slayer has just as high of a chance (1 point off) from the Knife Master BEST Attack, So the Slayers WORST Attack is just 1 point less then the Knife master BEST Attack,
The Rogue can and will miss some of his attacks, The Slayer on adverage will land twice as many attacks maybe even more. I Mean this dosnt matter if we are playing easy diff or such but still
soo the Damage output is higher for the Slayer then you think in all honesty just becouse of his attacks more likly to land And likly to land at earlyer levels as well Better Survivibility just period for the most part Easyer game mech if you so choose
The Slayer is just insanely under-rated / Godlike.
This got a Love / Like? Neat, But yeah ppl focus WAY 2 much on one catagory and tend to suffer from Tunnel Vision, Higher BaB = More Attacks, Better to Hit, Faster Feat Progression and such, Its been proven the best pure archer out there is basicly just a Slayer, The only thing that can kinda compete is something that mass multiclassed a bunch and its ONLY at the higher levels not at the lower to mid levels.
higher HD means better tanking
Better Saves
Can take the same feats from rogue / Ranger tree which means he can abuse certain builds just like the Ranger can but with even more benefits
Better armor and Weapon Pro
Slayer has been called one of the most under-rated classes and thats coz way to many ppl have tunnel vision and only focus on Sneak attack calling it the 'Better' But in truth its realy not when you consider eveything eles going for the slayer ...
@@zarddin Kinda been proven a Slayer is just the BEST Archer out there and rogue is just over-rated as WAY to many ppl focus on just the SA thinking its all that, Better BaB means quicker Feat Progression / Better feats being taken quicker, Meaning at the early-mid game Slayer is just Better his build comes online WAY quicker then the rogues or such by sevrol levels...
Rogue is still complete garbage. The only reason rogue became ok in pathfinder kingmaker is because sneak attack is incorrectly impelemented in this game (as well as many other things) and you can sneak right into the face when an opponent is just flanked. (It was correctly implemented in NWN and NWN2, so it was only 1/3 of your attacks rounded up after stealth if you initiate the combat are sneak attacks, or the target should be stunned, disabled, knocked down). But now sneak attack is also available to Slayer, Vivisec guy and to many spellcater classes. So Ranger can get 5d6 sneak attack as a spell later and get a pet, full bab and other good stuff so why need rogue. Rogue bab progression is average so you won't hit a thing on a proper difficulty. Rogues are only good as roleplaying characters coz of your character story, etc or if you need some dex weilding weapon to work.
smells like a shitty opinion over here.
Why play Rouge when Slayer Excist? Better HD Better Armor Better Weapon Choices Better to Hit (More attacks land thus more sneak attacks) Better Saves over-all an Extra Attack (Thus more Sneak Attack damage) an Extra damage per attack thanks to class feature AND the ability to just abuse game features and ignore Dex and still be able to duel wield coz Class Features of both Rogue + Ranger.
Fuck the Rogue its Complete utter Trash Slayer is by far Better in like every single aspect, Excuse me, in eveything except not having Trickery and Use Magic Device.