Battling My Car Instead Of The Competition! Is It Me Or The Race Car?
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- This was my fifth race with the new metric frame street stock and this joker is really giving me a hard time. I returned close to my original setup and thought we had a good car for the night but boy of boy was I wrong. This race Car would not turn at all after cranking in some more bite and made for a long night.
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In my opinion Jay, I feel it would be helpful to allow the car to roll over more onto the right rear, and get your bite that way. You will only continue to get a terrible push with that much left rear bite into the car. I would generally run between 50 to 100 pounds of static left rear bite, and the more you can get the car to roll over onto the right rear, you will get all the bite you need that way.
Keep up the good work Buddy
I agree, I want to explore all the options to figure out whats best for this car with me driving, ones things for sure. . . it ain't that!
Keep up the struggle videos, you're the only one I've found that shows the details.
Thank Kyle, just try to be completely honest in everything even when it sucks!
Also, if you move your added weights up to your waist or shoulder height, it will change your role center a bit and allow your car to roll over onto that right rear which is where you want the bike to come from. ✌️
I agree, however raising the ballast even more would require it to be above the deck which is not allowed.
Keep up with the content even through the struggle, look forward to it 👍
Well its all struggle right now!
Personally, when you were mad you were driving on the RR, it looked like you were hustling it pretty good to me.
I was forcing it for sure but it was requiring me to pound on it soo hard to get it to rotate in that it was blowing right through the middle. So more work is needed!
@DIRTRACELIFE what did the feedback tell you from spring rates and weight transfer while you were on the edge, and how could you have made it better? I'll tune in for your next show to find out. Look, you do a great job. Stay with it.
I would remove the chain.
Same here
Think the same thing. We can't run chains here in GA.
Pretty convinced adding bite while keeping the chain short is what did it. If I had unhooked that chain she would have been a completely different animal.
@DIRTRACELIFE Not sure what part of TN you are from or how far it ohld be but would love to have you at Winder Barrow Speedway one night here in northeast GA. Check it out on here. You would be considered modified street class.
I don’t have a chain on any corner of my car and I’m trying the soft spring bound up on the Lr my shock is my limiter and at full droop I’m binding a 16” inch 150 about an inch an 5/8’s I figure somewhere around 262 lbs of load and , at ride height the 16” 150 measures 10 inches without me in it… RR IM RUNNING A 225 13” spring… haven’t scaled it in awhile so I couldn’t give you any numbers shock is a pop up in LR and a hold down on the RF I run my Lr trailing arm in the bottom hole .. prior to that I was on. A 16” 250 with no load at full droop and a 13” 150 on the RR.. my bite was 365 we run AR’s I’m two rounds dialed from all rear brake I haven’t touched that since changing set ups it works for me either way I don’t have a problem with turning either set up feature time I’m trying to get as close to zero rear stagger as possible 1/2 to a 1/4 inch.. front I can’t tell the difference in stagger but I’m usually around an inch… dry slick she just sticks I’m on a 583 gear on a 4/10th’s mile and at this point I’m just out motored but it sure is fun hoping to just give you some ideas
If it were me id put a 1000lb LF spring and loosen the slack on the LF chain. And a 225 right rear spring. Again. 140 lbs. Bite. Lighter LF will help pin the car looser on corner entry without washing out. Lighter RR will help pin the car off the center and exit and the reduced bite will help keep it under control under acceleration. Anything over 150 lbs bite is just a waste of time right now. If its still a bit tight off just throw in more rear stagger or put a 1/4 or 1/2 inch spacer in the right rear for dry conditions. Another thing to remember focus on corner entry first! If you cant get in, you are definetely not coming off! Springs tell ya where to go, shocks tell ya when to go
Not arguing with any of this Brad
Hi my name is Waylon and I hope my comments and advice didn't upset you! I'm a fan of yours and watched every step of your build! Very impressed on everything you do! Make your car fast at your favorite track and then you know how fast your car is! Changes are less needed and less drastic at others
Not at all Waylon and your feedback is very appreciated sir.
More bite makes it tighter. With that setup you have to drive it like that.
Agree. More static crossweight (bite) adds understeer in all phases. It would have made more sense to have left the bite alone and softened both front springs equally.
I don’t know who said it. It’s never as bad as it seems or as good as it seems. Keep at it and you’ll figure it out.
It sure showed me that this is true cause buddy it got TIGHT!
@@DIRTRACELIFEdid you check the stagger when you got off the track like maybe the left rear grew and gave you reverse stagger possibly ???
Maybe try stiffening both back springs a little, the stiffer springs will loosen the rear overall. Don't stop putting out videos every week, we look forward to every one of your videos!
Appreciate it bud
The last few laps when you were driving it harder, is how you should be driving it. Now get the RR to plant and the rear to rotate (not over rotate) on throttle.
You have to choose your style of driving, coast into the corner or drive it into the corner... completely different setups are needed to keep lap times low.
When you said you were adding more LR, i said "nooooo". 🤷♂️
I don't mind an aggressive entry if I can make it stick but that was not sticking at all. Ideally I want to roll the car in but I am still not there yet on getting one that will roll in but have some decent drive off.
@DIRTRACELIFE Facts! The rear is definitely out-working/overloading the front.
I'm still leaning towards Frame heights/front and rear roll centers as well as spring rates/preloads.
I can't remember what your front spring rates are, but I wouldn't hesitate to toss in a softer rf spring...
You might trade a little drive, but you should be able to make it up with keeping the momentum through the corners. Nowadays, everything is based on Corner speeds... faster corners equates to faster straights.
Loosen the LF chain 1-1/2" to 2" to allow it onto the rf and rr faster
I hate you didn’t have a good run Jason. I think most of us would watch whatever you put out so don’t stop with the weekly stuff(as long as you have time to put it out). I know a lot of ppl have already said it but I feel like you should try more slack in that lr chain and let it eat buddy.
Agreed Scott, my gut is telling me that a tight LR chain plus significantly more bite is what led to the situation.
Keep at it mate. If you aint struggling you aint learning
100% agree and those who say they never struggle .. . are lyin
Here for the ride Jason, wanna see your success and struggles brother
Well it sure all struggle right now! but sunny days will come soon enough ;)
I would not run the "backward" spring combo until the car proves it needs to be entry tight. Swap front springs to free entry. I know the popular set up is heavy lf spring but that isn't what the car is telling you.
I can see your point with that much cross it would have acted better it the springs were swapped around
I have the same problem. Goes in tight bit then snapps loose and does instant donut burnouts., however going in hard and jab kick the brake, forcing sideways sometimes I can catch it right and have a good lap but my lack of seat time can't keep it up. On my best night battling with a former driver of previous owner of my car,( he was shocked) the right tie rod fell out and straight to the wall in turn 1 I go, and the car got even worst. The moment you push on the loud pedal, instant donut burnout, now it very broken and my sponsorless butt can't buy parts. Hope you find the problem and share it. I was gonna try reverse tire stagger if my last wreck didn't happen. Even got my own scales(old style Rebco) now to work thru this when I get the car back together.
Oh also a tip for future beginner info video t(refresh if you do one) use the scale to weight yourself then add exercise weights or what ever you can use as a stand in so you can stay outside the car while scaling.
Thats a dang good point on scaling with weight of a driver. I have enough extra to do that for Rachel's car but not for me.
I wasn't sure. I know that when a car is tight that's a good place to start. My experience though is asphalt and we run about 3 inches. I should say I do because I like my car a little looser. Lol, I watch your videos alot you are an awesome person! Ty
Thank you for watching Tracey, and thanks for the tip as well.
I forgot about the chains. I say unhook them and let that car work 🤷♂️🤣
If I had unhooked that LR I think I would have been 100 times better off
Man you need to drive like you're pissed off all the time in any stock car. I bet those lap times wernt too bad towards the end of the race. Car is definitely too tight coming in. Ive been there. Do the Jay Neil setup. Put the LR dummy spring in, remove all shocks. Set your ride heights and go back to 60-80lbs of bite. Thats always got me back in the ballpark.
I know you are right on this Ryan. Back to the baseline
@@DIRTRACELIFE I was about to say the same thing as my buddy Ryan, we need to see aggravated Jason more often behind the wheel haha. BTW this is something I struggle with myself at times as well. 😆
What I want is a car that is free and fast. I hate the idea of a car that is so tight you have to cowboy it all the time. Its makes it very hard to do much with it in traffic or anything. I dont mind beating on it like a rented mule but its sure not ideal. . .
Idk how relatable might try taking the LF chain off when you got a lot of lr in the car, in my mod I put the LF chain on my car and it had quite a bit lr bite in the car and it made it wayyy to traction tight just like yours had to drive the heck out of it to turn couldn’t roll it in, might try it! Keep up the awesome vids man!
Will do sir
I had a comment and this proves it! I'm back at a different track and decided to make more adjustment from the last track! Jason make it work great on one track before you chase another! I'm seeing this with 30 years of late model success under my belt
I hear ya bud
Any content is good content
I hear ya Junior, but man, I feel like a beat mule right now
Jason you need to get “aggravated “ more often. You were flying after that 😂
That’s hard on parts tho way the track was
It pissed me off for sure and I was just sick of it. I'm fine with being aggressive with one on entry but the dang thing has to be able to stick is the hard part of that. Not there yet
From one Camaro guy to another, you can not drive a metric car like you do a Camaro. I liked to keep my Camaro under me mostly unless it was really hammer down and I needed it tail out. I have recently switched to from a Camaro to a metric and, the metric requires a different driving style, more tail out entering and through the middle. It may be more driving style (mentally) that needs changed a little, rather then the setup. First part of the feature the car was under you and when you got mad, you made the car go tail out, and it was faster. Just my opinion and experience, hope it helps.
Yep, you are right about this. Part oof it is me and I got mad enough to "show me" what the car would act like if pushed on hard. I have to fix the setup to get it turning but then also drive it more aggressively to make the setup work
Metric cars like to roll over on the front right spring. I feel like the chain is holding the car from moving around like it wants to… you gotta hike that gals dress up and let her eat!! When you were driving it mad is the best she’s looked to me. I said it before, I feel like you’re trying to drive it like a leaf spring car, they’re nothing like each other. Those metric cars wanna be on the edge, wild man style. Watch all the fast metric car, they have a lot of separation. Good luck Jason!!
100% spot on
Swap front springs.
I can see your point with that much cross it would have acted better it the springs were swapped around
Jason, I’ve been out of it a while, and not up on what the latest is, but seems like that’s a heck of a lot of bite. That would make it extremely tight and not want to turn wouldn’t it ?
Normally it would loosen entry but I think with the chain where I had it caused the scenario.
I may be wrong but I think you have too much left rear bite making it push
Oh, I don't think you are wrong at all, i think it was too much LR and the chain way to short working together to casue that nightmare
Have you thought about setting the front end up square as a starting point, same springs,same shocks, same castor, no anti dive split, just different camber and toe adjustment.
Some of that yes but not all. Same springs and same antidive is possible
I'd.love to see set up videos
Well we are sure going back the drawing board on setup so that's coming
Do you still have the initial 3° rr trailing arm angle? Is it passing through 0° during travel? I've worked on several g-body frame chassis that had the same problem as your car seems to have. Increasing the rr angle to 5° or more sure helped. That trailing arm has a lot of influence on wheelbase and rr load. It may be worth testing at some point.
Do you have image stabilization (hypersmooth) turned on while filming from in the car on track?
Yes, the camera had stability on (otherwise its a shaky mess) And yes I still have it at 3 degrees and can drop it a hole to add a few more degrees as well. Could be a possibility.
@DIRTRACELIFE Thanks, I thought it seemed to smooth out bumps in the track and was changing angle with the dash/hood as you entered the banking. I was having difficulty figuring out how much roll you had by the video, and I was trying to figure out your approximate dynamic control arm angles and spring compression/ extension.
Start back at the baseline setup if you can (my arrogant opinion, lol).
You're doing great. Thanks for sharing your videos and experiences.
Lose the chain and use a hold up shock let it hike like a latemodel
I think the LR chain being too tight was the culprit so I going to have to agree with you here bud
More left it’s going to push
For sure on entry with that chain to tight
Move your rear ballast higher in the rear
Remove LR chain
In my 2cents, when springs and shocks do nothing, Its a chassis fundamental issue,
Look at something as simple as getting some lead higher than the cars cg and see what that does.
I agree with what you are seeing. I think the LR chain bound it and caused the scenario.
So you changed your mind for the 1050 RF spring?
I was trying to reverse course and get back closer to where I started.
I would personally put 40lbs to 60lbs of weight on the right rear at fuel cell top height.
Thats where that extra 40 went but maybe even more is called for
@@DIRTRACELIFE I agree bud, some heat to feature offset tinkering, all offsets to driver side for feature n passenger side qualifying and heats.
She will tighten up a good bit in feature but the right rear drive off will be better with that 40 above cell n right to rear. Lol
You will get better center off in the corners
What about more stagger?
More would have helped I am sure. It had about 1.25" though which should have been enough
Didn’t you put more left rear in it
I did .... Quite a bit more. Learned alot about the relationship between left rear bite and a left rear chain because of it too!
Limiter chains really weren’t a thing when I was into st stocks.. so I have no idea what they do… there was a guy running 200lbs of RR tho that was basically unbeatable
I am pretty convinced I had the LR chain too tight that led to this.
In my opinion, it needs more LR to RF weight transfer on landing and less off throttle time.
I agree with this
The left front spring might haft to go up in lbs .
I am pretty sure I ruined the setup when I left the LR chain too tight.
@@DIRTRACELIFE go back to to the beginning and start over , make the car do what you want . Remember have fun 👍
Have it all apart in the shop now. Back to Square one... this time> fix tha dang driver LOL
Are your shocks new or dynode
Jay went through all my shocks and reworked them for this new car. 5 races old.
When you let off and on the gas Jason it’s upsetting the car the more you can stay in the gas a man handle it you will get a lot faster car want never be perfect just find a corner that’s good and work from there I never found a car that worked both ends
Thats true, they are never perfect
Put some more stagger in it and take the bike back down to 170 pounds
I'm thinking all the way back to 125lbs to be honest. More bite was not the answer at all
@@DIRTRACELIFE taking a bite out not it’s not gonna let you be so tight off putting stagger in it. It’s gonna help you turn the car getting in the corner and then you’re gonna have your drive off.
Loading that left like he did is not gonna let the car unload
I think (and just my worthless 2¢) you’re still fighting a lateral and longitudinal load transfer issue. The LR chain limiter could be not letting the load get to the front tires causing that push or not getting enough lateral load to plant the right side. Also could be in your spring or shock package. I’m fighting this same issue just slightly different so I feel your pain man
I think so too, the LR chain too tight is was what did me in
They prep that track for dune buggies or what?😂
Sure seemed like it
Brother I hear everything you say but Two things I would say ok! Number 1 you race different tracks and never master a single one! Second if the setup i pretty close, learn to drive it! I raced for 30 years in the late model class and driver adjustment is top of the list! We made a lot of changes but so many reasons why they don't work! Set up is 50 percent but driver adjustment is just as important! ! 5 laps on a setup goes from good to bad! Make your car and your driving work at one track first! Also race a track that's not a plowed corn field! Master 1 track then your adjustment may not be a mystery! Your not making your car work anywhere ok ! You won't until it's working somewhere ok
Very reasonable advice
How much rake do you have
About 3 degrees when I ran this race
@@DIRTRACELIFE 2-1/2-3” is what you need
@@DIRTRACELIFEput it at 3”
You just have a bad case of the new car blues !
It's got me aggravated right now for sure. Going to get there though
too much cross keep it up
Yeah more Cross was a definite fail :(
Thing is plowing like a dump truck
No, I can turn a dump truck, hell this thing would not turn at all
Where is your brake bias? All rear or??
Street Stocks are fastest when you never have to turn left !!
I was all over the place trying to work with it but at the end when I said screw it and just slammed it in on the gas I was full rear with the RF turned off
Full rear and 3 wheel you’re definitely tight! We’re fighting the same issue ! I’m going to add some trail in the RR, add rear steer.
Oh and keep up the videos, love the tech talk on race cars! Great YT channel !
You have way too much left rear bite in the car, when you added more it made it worse and it's just going to push.... Try getting down to maximum 100 lb left rear bite.... I'm glad you went back to your original setup. 👍
Keep the faith brother....
Now I am seeing some of this, I am stubborn but eventually it sinks in
I think you are doing to much you need seat time get the car close and drive that thing you are gonna win soon for sure
I agree, Just me being forced to drive it completely different showed me the car does have more options and I need to get back to where I started and drive the car differently.
Watched some of the BSB stuff, some things I agree with, but some things he says make no sence to me.
Its tricky and I am still not hitting it right. But I am learning from every mistake
Dude you are adjusting TOO MUCH on the car. You are adjusting yourself into a bad set up. I agree with another poster. The chain on the left rear is holding the car from fully transferring to RF. Plus, cut the brake pedal off. If you want to drive a jig car, move up.
I agree with some of what you said. Not sure about the jig car thing, I want to master the league I am in now. I'm a long ways from there and going through this initial pain is going to look like crap. I think skipping over the mistakes and learning process in the videos is the wrong move for me. And yes, if I can figure out how to get the car to stick and hold an aggressive entry then I will happily skip the brake pedal :)
Looks way too tight.
Ya think! LOL Yeah, that suck was a disaster
@@DIRTRACELIFE When you first tested the new car, it handled so good... I bet it's something simple when you find it.
The travel to every track in the country I'll make my car fast don't work! Make it as fast as you can at one place then the change's aren't so drastic
I understand your sentiment but i don't have that luxury. I am limited on time and none of the tracks run regular schedules every week. Yes, its MUCH harder to sort out a car with all the added chaos but the alternative is to just sit at home.
Last thing! If your changing all this stuff chasing your local track every week it's they different! Find another track cause you'll never win
That track is a disaster, that I agree with. Hell I am going to take this whole car apart just to see what I bent and broke.
Jason don't get mad at me but get the car very fast on 1 track and then you know what your fast car feels like! Not on 4 different tracks I feel like the car does this!!! BS
Not mad at all and appreciate your feedback. If it's honest and genuine it welcome here bud.