Yeeeeeessss. You need to do more of these :) This was great. As a novice wine drinker and frequent vivino buyer I have discovered I have some real issues with their cheaper/mid range wines. I used to order wines almost only based on grades, but I've realized the scores tend to be too high for overly sweet, oaky, simple drinking wines. I think this is because a big bulk of the grades comes from the large, uneducated easy drinkers group. Certainly something I used to be guilty of as well, but as you learn and 'evolve', your taste changes and you get bored of drinking grape juice and start to appreciate complexity. Grading a wine is understandably hard when your frame of reference is a 5/5 for a 20-30 dollar wine. So thank you and keep them coming
I find that Vivino scores sort of work like IMDB scores for movies. It depends a lot on the category. Primitivos and Zinfandels are often scored much higher compared to nebbiolos or wines from burgundy. This is not unlike how new superhero movies on IMDB are scored much more generously than, for example short-films or art-house movies. Each category have different audiences with different expectations
This is an insightful comment! Subconsciously I take certain IMDB rating more seriously than others depending on the genre I now realise. Extrapolating the nature of ratings per genre from IMDB to Vivino is a great comparison.
I find this to be especially true for horror movies since it's such a subjective genre. I feel like any horror film rated over 6.5 has a decent chance of being quite good.
I enjoy Vivino, just for the tracking of my own tastings and purchases. Often, I’ll try a wine and hate it, stare at the label so I’ll remember it, then 6 months later - hey, I recognize that, let’s get that! Vivino helps me from repeating mistakes.
I tend to use vivino more to track my own thoughts than to make purchasing decision, but it's very useful for learning the grapes in a blend which can help you figure out what to expect from it.
Konstantin I use Vivino and I like it. It has helped me expand my knowledge of wine and I can keep track of my cellar with the app. It is a great tool which can be used along with great You-tubers like yourself to educate and share with wine lovers. Thanks for all your hard work! Cheers 🍷
Vivino represents the palate of most average drinkers, and since I drink my wine often with average drinkers, Vivino serves a purpose. That said, special wines will also get good and accurate ratings on Vivino, because the people who bother to drink it and post the comments are usually serious drinkers who appreciate that wine. So, overall, I think it works on both ends.
Vivino has a great feature where they give a percentage that basically suggests my likelihood of enjoying the wine based on my previous ratings of other wines. It's great! But I mostly use it to keep track of my wine purchases and preferences. Great video though!
Great video Konstantin, enjoying your videos lately! I use Vivino a lot and I've found it a very useful tool for storing my tasting notes & tracking my cellar. In regards to the wire mesh on your Marques de Riscal, it was originally invented to prevent counterfeiting of their high-quality Rioja. It covered the bottle, thereby preventing counterfeiters from either being able to slyly remove the cork, draining out the good wine and replacing it with something else, or simply refill and re-cork a used bottle, since it was impossible to remove the netting without breaking it, and once off, the netting could not be put back on the bottle. If there was something wrong with the wire netting surrounding the bottle, chances were, that bottle was a fake. I guess they keep doing it as a nod to tradition. Cheers!
I like Vivino and use it quite often. Not so much for the score (ok, ok, a little) , but for details like grape variety, region, price and some of the descriptions. When I find myself at a store, popping a label at the Vivino app helps me figure out whether I'll drink it before dinner, with piece of meat or a vegetarian dish. It's not perfect, but it helps.
For me Vivino is a consumer platform instead of a critics one. I prefer to read the comments of friends that I know the taste to evaluate the wines . The 5 stars rating system in at best vague. Cheers! Love the channel 👏👏👏👏
Never heard of Vivino but I'm looking forward to checking it out now. Praying you and your family are safe right now. Praying for all of Germany with the damaging rain and weather.
Thanks for the post. I am totally into Riesling, so I enjoyed this episode. I shop mainly in Pfalz, Rheinhessen and Nahe, where one can find great value for money. I would love to see you tasting Portugese wines. Great things are happening there, with varieties that are truly unique. And yes, personally I don't take Vivino that serious. Some scores don't make sense.
What an awesome discovery this channel. I do basically the same, buy batches of 6 different bottles from vivino and drink them over time. I'm from northeastern Spain so the wines that you described as so concentrated are actually my cup of tea. Keep up the awesome content!
Entertaining video Konstantin! You make a good point about subjective tastes, I also tend to enjoy reds with more finesse and subtlety whereas a lot of people like bombastic and concentrated reds (and tend to rate them highly). Now do another tasting video, but with critic scores (and maybe some more high end wines)!
I really enjoy Vivino not only for the notes I can take on wines I've tried, but the system that takes those personalized ratings and then determines if I will like a wine I've never tried. Usually spot on. Also when faced with a wine menu and no familiar wines, it helps to sort out what would be enjoyable at a restaurant. Trick is not to rate everything high. 3.0 is decent, but I wouldn't buy. 3.5 is I would buy again and then goes up from there.
I use vivino quite a lot, but mainly as my public wine diary - I follow a few friends and wine critics from whom I know their individual scale and what we share and don't share in terms of taste I rarely use the overall scores though, but read through a few of the reviews to get a grip if the 'wine genre'
I did some research myself and the results are more interesting than expected. The Vivino score is subjective score and that's how it needs to be interpreted - it's ultimately skewd towards the taste of fans of particular wine. Great video!
I cross reference Cellar Tracker with Vivino - Cellar Tracker users tend to be a bit fussier/more informed, so if a wine is rated well in both, it’s likely to be at least decent.
Dear Konstantin, I am following your videos since a couple of years and I learned a lot from them. Now it is my time to pay you back. The gold plated wire around the Marques de Riscal Reserva was introduced years ago by the owners to prevent copying of their wines, simple as that. Concerning Vivino, I am a member there but I also double check their rates with other sources and experts like you. Good example in this case is the Marques de Riscal Reserva 2017 of wich I bought a case after seeing your video.
Super gutes Video! Finde es toll das du nicht nur sagst es schmeckt nach kokusnus und Schokolade, sondern dass du auch erklärst warum es so ist! Sehr gut für Leute die noch am lernen sind! 😁
I agree. Point systems are only valuable if you know the scorer's palate. If I like what that scorer likes, then those points mean something to me. If its just a general sample of people whose tastes can be all over the place, then I feel like it is a good indicator for a retail shop or a restaurant to have confidence that those wines will sell, but that's about it. Then again if the masses on Vivino collectively pan a wine (give it a low score), I feel like I would trust that.
I use Vivino a lot for taking notes of the wines i've tasted, but i don't really trust its 1-5 star rating because it feels quite limited and price-biased a lot of times. For example I just tried the other day a fumeé sauvignon blanc from France with a 3.7 rating that was so much better than most of the 3.9-4.0 white whites i've tasted. The 100 point score is way more precise. Great video, greetings from Argentina!
Vivino is a very strange place. As is the wine world. I like that it translates that craziness. And that you don't need any login to get the info. Case in point: the crazy price some wines go by. Example 1 Chateau Pétrus vs Chateau La Fleur-Pétrus vs Chateau LaFleur-Gazin This wineries sit less than 200m from each other and the vines themselves are a criss-cross pattern around a 20ha square yet the final products cost respectively (for the last vintage the 3 are available in Vivino, 2013) 3k, 384 and 80 euros. I've been moving the content of each of this bottles from one to the other and making blind tastings a couple of times per year with some friends that are highly respected somms in NYC and they keep rating the LaFleur-Gazin as the best of the three!!! And they get so happy when they realized they've chosen the Petrus bottle. For them its just "ooooooh, I knew it! This is unmistakable." Every year I promise myself I'm going to tell them about this charade but I just can't bring myself to tell them: its like telling a child there's no Santa. But this is going for 8 years now. Example 2 Porto Vintage Quinta do Noval Nacional vs Porto Vintage Quinta do Noval Silval vs Porto Vintage Quinta do Silval (Magalhães) Again. The first goes for over 1k, the second 100 and the third can be had at 50 euros, the first two are from the same winery, the third from one just 500m away from Quinta do Noval In facy: vines from Quinta do Noval go around Quinta do Silval. In Vivino Quinta do Noval Silval and Magalhães have around the same ratings than the more expensive Noval Nacional. And again, I've been mixing this 3 brands vintages for 8 years at the same gathering in NYC and every single time the Magalhães Port wins (inside a bottle of Noval Nacional, ofcourse). That's how deranged the wine market it: people will give so much value to something just because it sits on someone famous/rich and by trying to emulate that suddenly there's no connection between the intrinsic value and the market value.
You are a genius, yes wine is highly suggestive, so always recommend blind tastings when possible, but soon you are going to have to reveal or better yet, get non-somms to participate in same approach/method that don't know what to expect from a particular bottle/name. Since 1976, Stags Leap has never had to worry about selling wine. Reputation and notoriety and marketing, unfortunately go along way especially in the subjective wine industry. Doesn't have to be that way, but soooo sooo many somms say that is the way we always did it. Somm 3 documentary gave all the necessary insight into why the whole linear integer rating systems is flawed; a subjective score on top of head using integer will result in a tie every time as did here with the 90s scores
As always GREAT!! Vivino app- I’d give it 3⭐️… meh… It’s most valuable attribute for me is the “My Wines” where I can keep notes. 🍷🍷WHO WANTS TO COLAB ON A GREAT WINE TRACKING APP?!?!🍷🍷 Sorry for that, Konstantin. I just really want a great app for tracking my own wines and tasting notes. Also, I believe the wire cage on Riojas is a carryover from many years ago when unscrupulous tavern owners would buy quality Rioja wine and then refill the bottle with inferior wine and resell it as what was on the label. The producers added the cages to protect their reputations. Also a huge fan myself of Rioja in general. I think it offers tremendous value. I just loved the moment you opened the Marques de Riscal and smiled. Your remark about seeing an old friend really warmed my heart and endeared me even further to the channel. 🥂 Cheers!!
Nice video. Use Vivino mainly to track my own wines I am drinking. Some of the breakdown of the stats are also interesting such as the type of wines you drink regularly, grape varieties etc. The points scale is pretty useless as you always have someone rating against their preference, "This Sauternes is too sweet, I don't like it" etc. But when you follow people you respect their ratings it can be useful. If I see a particular person I know and respect their judgement has rated a wine well I am much more likely to purchase.
Thank you for another interesting tasting. I restarted tasting wines after a long period and I'm now using Vivino. I think the Vivino score gives you an indication but you cannot trust fully on that score. The more scores a wine has, the more the score is balanced and trustworthy. But always be carefull with the reviews because I see a lot of comments that are assigned to the wrong wine (e.g. a comment on a rosé in the comments list of a red wine of the same winery). I use Vivino to keep track of the wines that I tasted with my personal scores and notes.
Great video! I tend to use Vivino as a guideline, not gospel... it can help make quicker, but semi-informed choices when you might have 50 options for a particular varietal. Wines that are up to $10 3.5+ is potentially worth a try, $10-20 I am looking for 3.8 and above and I will read a few of the lower score reviews to see what they felt was wrong and reference top tasting notes, $20+ I look for 4.0+ and will read some of the more detailed reviews and if there are professional reviews will look at that. Cheers!
Thank you for great content. I am very much in agreement with Ben Marshall in the comments. I use it as cellar tracker and own reviews. Also the best wine SoMe I know, for a smaller group seeing and interacting with what friends drink. The stars has to be taken with a grain of salt, as it is targeting a very broad user base, perhaps favoring sweeter and more extracted wines. I look at individual comments and expert reviews to get a better idea of a wine.
Another excellent video! I had never even heard of Vivino until now. I have downloaded the app and will give it a try. Mr. Baum, I would be very grateful if you could devote a future episode to “tannins”. When I first became interested in wine decades ago I learned that tannin is a component of wine that comes from seeds and stems. Nowadays wine writers always refer to “tannins” (plural), and their often florid descriptions of a wine’s tannins make me think that they can’t be talking about the same thing.
'South East Australia' probably refers to the Murray Riverland, which is the largest producing region by litres but is usually quite irrigated and doesn't have the prestige of the Barossa or Hunter Valleys
Great video - should do another VIVNO series, but should be more concentrated on the grape/arena. 1 Rhone wine 3.6 vs 4.2 vivno score 1 Bordeaux wine 3.7 vs 4.1 vivno score and maybe taste them blind? you get the idea :)
Did you return the oxidized bottle? Or is returning wines only allowed for more dire faults such as obvious cork taint? Loved the video, interesting concept to rate popular vivino wines. Would love to see a part 2!
Vivino gave me a credit for a cork that was leaking recently, but they requested picture proof. So I'm pretty sure they would not in his case. (Worth a try though)
I don't particularly use vivino for the scoring aspect. I use it to catelogue wines that I have tried and enjoyed when I am buying them from shops that I don't typically go to or if my sommelier friends bring something obscure to dinner or something.
Great video. I use vivino and i like it. The scores on vivino is only a guide line, sweet vines ofte get high scores, so you have to look out for this. But there are many vines around the score from 3.5 to 4.0, But if you compare to many wine tasters, wich uses the 100 scale, you often see the score around 90 points. So even if you use the 100 scale, you only use the numbers from 80 to 99.
I would contend you won't find many, if any, 95-100 wines in a grocery store and how many bottles have you seen that had points on the label under 88pts? For mass produced wines, the points on the label are usually 88-91. One does see a 92, 93 or 94 every now and then, but usually they are rated too high. I have a correlation of score to price point that I use and also answers the question what would I pay for a wine. As the quality increases, the scale becomes non-linear, which is why one can not use a linear integer scoring system. A 90 score should mean the wine is worth $25.00; 89 would be $19 and the scale precision goes to the hundredths place, above 90 is when the scale changes from linear to non-linear.
The problem with the 5 star score on Vivino is that the math tends to congregate the scores near 4. A wine that’s pretty good will likely get lots of 4s but to have something above a 4 you need more people selecting 5 than 3. So 4.1 or 4.2 tells me that most people selected 4 and their were slightly more outliers at 5 than at 3. Obviously, it’s the opposite for anything less than 4. There’s not enough range in the scoring to make a real distinction, which is why it’s very hard to understand the difference between a 4.1 and a 3.9…which is exactly how Vivino wants you to feel so that a 3.9 isn’t an automatic “no sale.”
I haven’t enjoyed 19 Crimes. My red wine palate has moved away from the high alcohol California wines. I want to taste the soils, some leather, licorice and herbs. I look for this on the descriptions at Total wines. I dont want a lot of Berry, but do enjoy a bit of cherry forward on the Pinots from Oregon.
Nice presentation, as usual; on the Minuty 'M' Provence Côtes de Provence Rosé, three years ago I had the 2017, and what you call gummy-bears I call NECCO wafer. I scored the 2017 89 points.
I am a Vivino customer and IMO this is the ONLY place to buy wine. I could not be happier. I sold off a moderately large cellar of mostly great Bordeaux from great vintages based on high scores fom James Suckling and Robert Parker. I much prefer the flavors of California cabernet sauvignon based wines. For me these are the greatest wines and the greatest values in the world. Every one I bought from Vivino was a winner. No other wine from any other region in the world was so consistently pleasing to me. It matches my preferred flavor profile perfectly. My price range is 20 to 35 dollars. I value the ratings of other tasters on the site.
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine Here is just one example of countless thousands of competitors from California for my money. IMO nobody comes close to beating wines like these for QPR (quality price ratio) www.vivino.com/beau-vigne-napa-valley-cabby-cabernet-sauvignon/w/4137119?year=2017&change_ship_to_country_code=us&change_ship_to_state_code=nj&merchant_id=28108&pid=21363697&prefill_token=kgb4.3mdzX2LuN_SS30LVrXXBptJFmY7AwTv2qEFYCsxbCVmxlNas6HdIYYrKqn_knVRY81KWFSs&price_id=21363697&vid=154446737&vintage_id=154446737 Orders over $150 get free shipping in the United States. For a few dollars more they'll pack it in ice, perfect for the hot weather. You can see there is a code at the top for a $21 discount for orders over $150. They have frequent discounts and sales. They sell wines from practically everywhere. If they don't have a wine you want and can't get it they might suggest alternative sources. Everything is very well packaged, virtually no chance of damage and of course they always throw in a free sommelier's wine opener. Personally I prefer using the rabbit which is very easy to use. If there is a problem customer care is excellent.
Yes - Vivino is 95% California Cab Sauv lovers like yourself😂 I love a good CS (Buena Vista might be my fav with excellent QPR), but for a lot of us wine is a thinking experience as much as tasting so naming CA CS your be all end all is like saying you'll only read Moby Dick for the rest of your life because it's the best!😉
@@miriya99 Everyone should enjoy the pleasures in life in their own way. For me wine is purely a sensory experience. Some is very good, some are bad and most are awful. I like CalCabs because the good ones give me the most enjoyment. IMO they are very reasonably priced especially from Vivino and buying on line is very convenient. I've got over $300 worth in my cart right now. Paso Robles is also a high QPR region. I can't tell you how many times I was disappointed by Bordeaux because of the tannins. I might not have lived long enough for them to be ready to drink. A friend of mine said he had given up on Bordeaux and switched to California instead. I had to agree and did the same. I drank some memorable wines from various regions around the world but it was always hit or miss. I keep refocusing on the fact that wine merchants are in business to sell wine, I NEVER trust their opinion or advice. I learned some of their games. Suckling and Parker didn't always agree and even when they did their descriptions were so different you wouldn't know they were talking about the same wine. The consensus of opinion of other customers is the best reviewers I can find. That's why I'm invariably happy with Vivino purchases.
@@markfischer3626 For sure Californian vintners work hard to smooth out those tannins! I also love that you can be sure most will be quite good on release. And there is such a vast market for Cabs that prime land and good winemaking practices are not wasted from an economic perspective, so good QPR is def easier to come by! I agree with you that most mid range and up CA cabs will not disappoint, but personally I'd get bored if that was more than a small portion of what I drink. Nothing wrong with drinking what you know you'll like though!!
Hi Konstantin, I have binge-watched quite a few of your videos and in one of them you mentioned that you don't use Vivino or that you had not used it in the past. It would be interesting to know how do you choose which wines to buy if you have not tasted them beforehand. Do you follow some wine critics? Do you use cellar tracker? Is it more word of mouth? Perhaps a forum? Thanks in advance!
Hallo Konstantin! wie gehts es dir? i am glad to know this channels and your content. Ich bin aus Argentina and i want a video of you talking about MALBEC's wines. Dankeschön! tschuss
If you don't know what Shiraz is I should say you that it's a really really beautiful city in my country IRAN in middle east that they have been making red wine from several thousand years ago and they have a specific way to make wine that is the one and special. That's why that every wine all around the world that is made with such a way called SHIRAZ.
As a retailer of wine, Vivino has increasingly become a part of my worklife. Usually I don´t promote Vivino-scores, but my customers do. But the biggest problem, retailwise with Vivino, is that it gives customers a wrong idea of the price of a wine. Since most data on Vivino comes from the users, it is prone to many faults in what a wine cost. I´ve actually been in communication with them, after discovering a wine, retailed at $180, but on Vivino, after 234 reviews, to have an average cost of $12. They changed the price, for that vintage, but the wrong price are listed at all other vintages.
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine I´ve done it several times, though not with that wine, but several others. They should, in my opinion remove prices, on wines they don´t sell.
It would be good if you could convert your score to vivino score, or simply use vivino score. I never really understood the need for Parker’s 100 points. Like, if a wine with a score 80 is pretty shitty what would the wine with a score 10 taste like? Similarly, if you score it 90 is it more like 4.5, or 4 or below 4?
A 4.0/5.0 is an 80. Appears you liked 19 Crimes more than the other people on vivino who rated it. When you think about it, a 100 point scale is flawed. When have you seen a 10 or 25? It's rare. Maybe those are shifted to make wine vinegar. Pretty much everything is 80 and up, with some 70s occasionally, which means for all intents and purposes a 100 point scale is really a 20 or 25 point one.
I would contend less than 25 points, not even ten in reality based on following: How many times have you seen an ACTUAL 95-100 point wine in a grocery store. Most wines that have labels on them are from 88-91, yes you see 93 points but they are rated too high. The integer linear system is not precise enough and in reality, the higher quality wines go up in cost at a nonlinear rate. As is always the case as demonstrated within this video, there is always a tie even with just a handful of wines, with the linear integer method, which 90 was the best wine in this video? The scale like with Vivino not precise nor adequate to differentiate.
Great video! Vivino is such an amazing app, but it limits the user to a 1-5 score, which explains the majority of 4.0 wines. I offten what to rate a wine with 4.2 or 4.3 (i.e.) and I won't be able! 😒
Vivino reflects in its score the taste of most people, not sommeliers. Experts tend to like more sophisticated wines, often undrinkable to most people. I prefer to use Vivino's notes, which learns over time the type of wine I like, rather than sommelier recommendations, which most of the time let me down. One example is primitives. Most sommeliers hate it, but in Brazil, it's one of the best-qualified and most consumed wines. For me, good wine is the one I like, simple as that.
No comment.... Makes me laugh when people come to the restaurant where I work, pay ridiculous money for the experience and when it comes to select the wine they spend lots of time on Vivino, instead of talking to me or the team that builds the wine list.....they are pretty funny! Said that.... I have always thought is not a reliable tool, as you also experienced. The fact anyone can score, makes it a democratic tool, yes, but not an objective orientation for a consumer.... Nice to hear your opinion Teacher!
Kind of reminds me of what Michael Scott said about Wikipedia. Paraphrasing, the great thing about Wikipedia is that anybody in the world can put anything they want on it, so you know you’re getting the best information.
I've had some good luck on Vivino, but you have to watch out for large wineries like 19 crimes because they can afford to pay a marketing agency to post fake reviews. Wines with fewer than 100 reviews might be spoofed by company employees. Wines who's number of reviews is in the 100's tend to be more accurate. You should also read the reviews in order to determine whether the review is authentic. There is no perfect review site for any class of products, but with a bit of diligence you can filter out the marketing agencies.
Exactly so. The problem with averaging score systems like Vivino's is that everyone comes to the wine & rates it without saying what the context is. For all we know, when they rave about an Alcase Gewurtstraminer they might have just had a mouthful of chewing gum.. 🤣👍
I guess there are two points that are being missed. In my case I use Vivino when I am in a place with a wide selection of wines none of which I have had before (say, a good supermarket not in my neighborhood) and when there is nobody to consult and no time to do the research on the wines available. If I'm in a rush and need to grab a bottle of wine to bring with me to a friend's place, I'd much rather check some rating than no rating at all. As for the scores, from my limited experience of tasting various wines and then checking their scores, it seems that those with scores above 4.0 are usually quite good. Of course, there are always exceptions, but I would say that it's way less likely that one would end up with a horrible wine if they take a bottle with 4.0-4.2 rating as compared to a bottle with 3.3-3.5 rating. However, you need to check how many ratings there are and where the ratings are coming from. Sometimes a specific label would only be available in a single country or store chain. And if typical buyers there aren't sophisticated or experienced with wine, the scores are likely to be inflated (at least based on my experience). Overall I think that Vivino is a great tool that has helped many people discover the world of wine without feeling intimidated by the wide selection available and, as you mentioned yourself in another video, without just relying on very broad tasting notes (in this case on the bottle) that will likely not help distinguish a flawed wine from something enjoyable if you are on front of a long shelf with dozens or hundreds of bottles on it.
I’ve been following the channel for a while now, and I’d ask you what do you think about interspecies hybrids? I tried the Othelo variety wine, and it is bad, but not in the way it is most often thought of. There is a mismatch between taste and smell, the smell promises to open the sky, while the taste is modest
I use Vivino with a grain of salt. Not everyone there drinks for the same reasons or has the same tastes as I do. Often, they seem to be just chugging it without food. Occasionally one gets some precise tasting notes on there, along with some inebriated word salad, and a bit of humour. I just bought an Aussie Shiraz-Cab blend and Vivino said it was a poor match for me. Surprise-I actually loved the wine and would buy it again if it comes back! It is hard to read all the reviews in the store, but if the majority of them are poor and the ratings are really low, chances are I wont buy the wine.
Genius post, integer point system not precise enough to differentiate between wines. Of the 90 ratings in this video that were ties, which wine was the best of the same tie 90 score? As to the 19 Crimes, WASM scored the 2018, 19 Crimes Cab at 77.50; the lowest possible score in that model, basically a zero, not even worth $5 with a negative QVR score of -236.49% which is very bad. A positive QVR% means the wine is worth the price. In WASM, a decent wine should make it to 10 seconds with mouthfeel lasting in the overall development, 19 crimes barely made it to 7 seconds. Usually, any wine that doesn't make it to 6 seconds shouldn't be sold. There was zero bouquet and no structure/body. 13.5 ABV for a dry red wine, especially a Cab shouts out to me, not worth it
One of the problems I have now come across, is when you bring a bottle to a dinner with friends, and some of them will whip their phones and scan the label before even having a drop. They then pre-form an opinion of the wine before tasting. I think that's pretty rude really, and ends up subtly pushing people to bringing/buying high Vivino scoring wines for the sake of impressing friends. Wine drinking etiquette should now include banning Vivino scanning until after the event!
It's hard to not like Vivino just because of how many people use it. It's a great way to 'discover' wines but I take reviews with a grain of salt. The reviews are really weighted towards the general publics reaction to a wine and usually heavily price dependent. That isn't to say I haven't found some new favorites thanks to reviews, but even for the most conscious of wine drinkers the day to day palettes can be challenging. 99.99% of us aren't professionals, just enjoying the never ending supply of regions, estates, varietals, and winemakers. 19 crimes having decent reviews is a crime to wine though.
Blown away that 19 Crimes scores so well anywhere. They're very very average wines produced by a marketing department. No one in Australia takes them anywhere near seriously. Any wine that doesn't call out grape variety used and shows the region as a quarter of a very big country is just a joke.
WASM scored the 2018, 19 Crimes Cab at 77.50; the lowest possible score in that model, basically a zero, not even worth $5 with a negative QVR score of -236.49% which is very bad. A positive QVR% means the wine is worth the price. In WASM, a decent wine should make it to 10 seconds with mouthfeel lasting in the overall development, 19 crimes barely made it to 7 seconds. Usually, any wine that doesn't make it to 6 seconds shouldn't be sold. There was zero bouquet and no structure/body. 13.5 ABV for a dry red wine, especially a Cab shouts out to me, not worth it
I think online rating systems (Vivino, Amazon, name your favorite shopping site) are generally skewed in the positive direction. If a product is good, not great, I think folks are more likely to give it a positive review because of human nature. Nobody wants to admit they made a bad purchase. Unfortunately, reading tasting notes left by others doesn't yield much more. Read the tasting notes for a white, and you'll get green apple and citrus. A big red will result in tobacco and leather. Why? Because a lot of folks leaving those notes have read many others and that's how those wines are supposed to taste. My palette is not that refined. I simply buy what I like because it tastes good to me, not because of the tasting notes of a reviewer on the Internet.
BTW glass stoppers are rubbish. They require a plastic membrane to hold the seal effectively, which expands with time and heat causing premature oxidation. Seen too many prematurely advanced examples.
Yeeeeeessss. You need to do more of these :) This was great. As a novice wine drinker and frequent vivino buyer I have discovered I have some real issues with their cheaper/mid range wines. I used to order wines almost only based on grades, but I've realized the scores tend to be too high for overly sweet, oaky, simple drinking wines. I think this is because a big bulk of the grades comes from the large, uneducated easy drinkers group. Certainly something I used to be guilty of as well, but as you learn and 'evolve', your taste changes and you get bored of drinking grape juice and start to appreciate complexity. Grading a wine is understandably hard when your frame of reference is a 5/5 for a 20-30 dollar wine. So thank you and keep them coming
Or rating 5 stars because it's high alcohol content and they're wasted😂
Thanks for your comment - and I will keep them coming!
Of course, but Vivino is made for common people, not for Masters of wine :)
God forbid the app reflect the majority of the userbase. God forbid people be shamed for not wanting to taste a disinfected wooden floor
I find that Vivino scores sort of work like IMDB scores for movies. It depends a lot on the category. Primitivos and Zinfandels are often scored much higher compared to nebbiolos or wines from burgundy. This is not unlike how new superhero movies on IMDB are scored much more generously than, for example short-films or art-house movies. Each category have different audiences with different expectations
Thats true!
I totally agree. Maybe dessert wines and sweet wines score higher than they should. That’s another example.
This is an insightful comment! Subconsciously I take certain IMDB rating more seriously than others depending on the genre I now realise. Extrapolating the nature of ratings per genre from IMDB to Vivino is a great comparison.
I find this to be especially true for horror movies since it's such a subjective genre. I feel like any horror film rated over 6.5 has a decent chance of being quite good.
@LixTen I would recommend you to check out wing king.
I enjoy Vivino, just for the tracking of my own tastings and purchases. Often, I’ll try a wine and hate it, stare at the label so I’ll remember it, then 6 months later - hey, I recognize that, let’s get that! Vivino helps me from repeating mistakes.
Interesting!
I tend to use vivino more to track my own thoughts than to make purchasing decision, but it's very useful for learning the grapes in a blend which can help you figure out what to expect from it.
The net on the Riojas is a nod to the past. It helped prevent it to be counterfeited. Just an extra hurdle to jump. So it made/makes sense.
Dammit. You beat me to it!
Konstantin I use Vivino and I like it. It has helped me expand my knowledge of wine and I can keep track of my cellar with the app. It is a great tool which can be used along with great You-tubers like yourself to educate and share with wine lovers. Thanks for all your hard work! Cheers 🍷
Thanks for sharing! I will play around more with Vivino in the future
Vivino represents the palate of most average drinkers, and since I drink my wine often with average drinkers, Vivino serves a purpose. That said, special wines will also get good and accurate ratings on Vivino, because the people who bother to drink it and post the comments are usually serious drinkers who appreciate that wine. So, overall, I think it works on both ends.
Thanks Steve
Vivino has a great feature where they give a percentage that basically suggests my likelihood of enjoying the wine based on my previous ratings of other wines. It's great! But I mostly use it to keep track of my wine purchases and preferences. Great video though!
For years when I go to a grocery store that 19 Crimes grab my attention with its eye catching label. Ty for saving my liver and money.
It’s lovely wine, ignore this guy. I know loads of people who drink and love 19 crimes including myself.
Great video Konstantin, enjoying your videos lately! I use Vivino a lot and I've found it a very useful tool for storing my tasting notes & tracking my cellar. In regards to the wire mesh on your Marques de Riscal, it was originally invented to prevent counterfeiting of their high-quality Rioja. It covered the bottle, thereby preventing counterfeiters from either being able to slyly remove the cork, draining out the good wine and replacing it with something else, or simply refill and re-cork a used bottle, since it was impossible to remove the netting without breaking it, and once off, the netting could not be put back on the bottle. If there was something wrong with the wire netting surrounding the bottle, chances were, that bottle was a fake. I guess they keep doing it as a nod to tradition. Cheers!
Thanks!
I like Vivino and use it quite often. Not so much for the score (ok, ok, a little) , but for details like grape variety, region, price and some of the descriptions. When I find myself at a store, popping a label at the Vivino app helps me figure out whether I'll drink it before dinner, with piece of meat or a vegetarian dish. It's not perfect, but it helps.
For me Vivino is a consumer platform instead of a critics one. I prefer to read the comments of friends that I know the taste to evaluate the wines . The 5 stars rating system in at best vague. Cheers! Love the channel 👏👏👏👏
Thank you!
Really nice work Konstantin! You make me want to remix for a US edition with wines we're used to seeing in the US market. :) :)
Thanks Madeline! Sounds good.
Do it!
Never heard of Vivino but I'm looking forward to checking it out now.
Praying you and your family are safe right now. Praying for all of Germany with the damaging rain and weather.
Thank you very much. We were not touched by the floods but the Ahr and some other regions have suffered terrible damage.
This mirrors my own experience to almost 100% and reassures me that my own ratings are about correct.
Thanks for the post. I am totally into Riesling, so I enjoyed this episode. I shop mainly in Pfalz, Rheinhessen and Nahe, where one can find great value for money. I would love to see you tasting Portugese wines. Great things are happening there, with varieties that are truly unique. And yes, personally I don't take Vivino that serious. Some scores don't make sense.
Thanks for sharing!
The wire cages "mallas" on Rioja bottles were used to ensure authenticity when wine fraud was a problem in Rioja.
thanks!
What an awesome discovery this channel. I do basically the same, buy batches of 6 different bottles from vivino and drink them over time. I'm from northeastern Spain so the wines that you described as so concentrated are actually my cup of tea. Keep up the awesome content!
Thank you!
Entertaining video Konstantin! You make a good point about subjective tastes, I also tend to enjoy reds with more finesse and subtlety whereas a lot of people like bombastic and concentrated reds (and tend to rate them highly).
Now do another tasting video, but with critic scores (and maybe some more high end wines)!
That is also coming up - I promise!
I'm Spanish and a classic rioja lover,prefer viña ardanza over marques de riscal at same prices,love your content Konstantin,cheers!
In my local market in US, Ardanza is a bit more expensive than Riscal. I like both wines, sure wish I could buy Ardanza at Riscal prices!
@@mondarinvino107 I see,in Spain is more or less the same price,great wines both,you can't go wrong.
LOVE Vina Ardanza
@@titanmalt5509 In a famous Spanish online seller, Viña Ardanza costs around 20 euros and Marques de Riscal under 15.
Your comment about knowing who rated the wines is on point!! I see many wines for sale with high ratings and have no clue who did the tasting!!
I really enjoy Vivino not only for the notes I can take on wines I've tried, but the system that takes those personalized ratings and then determines if I will like a wine I've never tried. Usually spot on. Also when faced with a wine menu and no familiar wines, it helps to sort out what would be enjoyable at a restaurant. Trick is not to rate everything high. 3.0 is decent, but I wouldn't buy. 3.5 is I would buy again and then goes up from there.
Thanks for sharing!
I use vivino quite a lot, but mainly as my public wine diary - I follow a few friends and wine critics from whom I know their individual scale and what we share and don't share in terms of taste
I rarely use the overall scores though, but read through a few of the reviews to get a grip if the 'wine genre'
I did some research myself and the results are more interesting than expected. The Vivino score is subjective score and that's how it needs to be interpreted - it's ultimately skewd towards the taste of fans of particular wine. Great video!
Thank you!
as usual, excellent idea for a wine video. keep them coming!
Thanks, will do!
I cross reference Cellar Tracker with Vivino - Cellar Tracker users tend to be a bit fussier/more informed, so if a wine is rated well in both, it’s likely to be at least decent.
Sadly, cellar tracker looks like a website from 2005
So you are saying I should do a comparison video between CT and Vivino?!
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine that could be fun
Dear Konstantin, I am following your videos since a couple of years and I learned a lot from them. Now it is my time to pay you back. The gold plated wire around the Marques de Riscal Reserva was introduced years ago by the owners to prevent copying of their wines, simple as that. Concerning Vivino, I am a member there but I also double check their rates with other sources and experts like you. Good example in this case is the Marques de Riscal Reserva 2017 of wich I bought a case after seeing your video.
Super gutes Video! Finde es toll das du nicht nur sagst es schmeckt nach kokusnus und Schokolade, sondern dass du auch erklärst warum es so ist! Sehr gut für Leute die noch am lernen sind! 😁
Danke!
I agree. Point systems are only valuable if you know the scorer's palate. If I like what that scorer likes, then those points mean something to me. If its just a general sample of people whose tastes can be all over the place, then I feel like it is a good indicator for a retail shop or a restaurant to have confidence that those wines will sell, but that's about it. Then again if the masses on Vivino collectively pan a wine (give it a low score), I feel like I would trust that.
Let's put your last comment to the test :)
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine how so? Taste test of low scoring wines? I will if you do. :)
I use Vivino a lot for taking notes of the wines i've tasted, but i don't really trust its 1-5 star rating because it feels quite limited and price-biased a lot of times. For example I just tried the other day a fumeé sauvignon blanc from France with a 3.7 rating that was so much better than most of the 3.9-4.0 white whites i've tasted. The 100 point score is way more precise. Great video, greetings from Argentina!
Thank you!
Luckily I currently live in Spain and I have seen that Rioja, but have never tried it. Now I will very soon, thanks to your video.
Vivino is a very strange place. As is the wine world. I like that it translates that craziness. And that you don't need any login to get the info.
Case in point: the crazy price some wines go by.
Example 1
Chateau Pétrus vs Chateau La Fleur-Pétrus vs Chateau LaFleur-Gazin
This wineries sit less than 200m from each other and the vines themselves are a criss-cross pattern around a 20ha square yet the final products cost respectively (for the last vintage the 3 are available in Vivino, 2013) 3k, 384 and 80 euros.
I've been moving the content of each of this bottles from one to the other and making blind tastings a couple of times per year with some friends that are highly respected somms in NYC and they keep rating the LaFleur-Gazin as the best of the three!!! And they get so happy when they realized they've chosen the Petrus bottle. For them its just "ooooooh, I knew it! This is unmistakable."
Every year I promise myself I'm going to tell them about this charade but I just can't bring myself to tell them: its like telling a child there's no Santa. But this is going for 8 years now.
Example 2
Porto Vintage Quinta do Noval Nacional vs Porto Vintage Quinta do Noval Silval vs Porto Vintage Quinta do Silval (Magalhães)
Again. The first goes for over 1k, the second 100 and the third can be had at 50 euros, the first two are from the same winery, the third from one just 500m away from Quinta do Noval In facy: vines from Quinta do Noval go around Quinta do Silval. In Vivino Quinta do Noval Silval and Magalhães have around the same ratings than the more expensive Noval Nacional. And again, I've been mixing this 3 brands vintages for 8 years at the same gathering in NYC and every single time the Magalhães Port wins (inside a bottle of Noval Nacional, ofcourse).
That's how deranged the wine market it: people will give so much value to something just because it sits on someone famous/rich and by trying to emulate that suddenly there's no connection between the intrinsic value and the market value.
You are hilarious, please invite me to your parties😂
Interesting experiments!
You are a genius, yes wine is highly suggestive, so always recommend blind tastings when possible, but soon you are going to have to reveal or better yet, get non-somms to participate in same approach/method that don't know what to expect from a particular bottle/name. Since 1976, Stags Leap has never had to worry about selling wine. Reputation and notoriety and marketing, unfortunately go along way especially in the subjective wine industry. Doesn't have to be that way, but soooo sooo many somms say that is the way we always did it. Somm 3 documentary gave all the necessary insight into why the whole linear integer rating systems is flawed; a subjective score on top of head using integer will result in a tie every time as did here with the 90s scores
Enlightening comments. I Use Vivino often to research wines but will not rely on the ratings as much going forward.
As always GREAT!! Vivino app- I’d give it 3⭐️… meh… It’s most valuable attribute for me is the “My Wines” where I can keep notes. 🍷🍷WHO WANTS TO COLAB ON A GREAT WINE TRACKING APP?!?!🍷🍷 Sorry for that, Konstantin. I just really want a great app for tracking my own wines and tasting notes.
Also, I believe the wire cage on Riojas is a carryover from many years ago when unscrupulous tavern owners would buy quality Rioja wine and then refill the bottle with inferior wine and resell it as what was on the label. The producers added the cages to protect their reputations. Also a huge fan myself of Rioja in general. I think it offers tremendous value. I just loved the moment you opened the Marques de Riscal and smiled. Your remark about seeing an old friend really warmed my heart and endeared me even further to the channel. 🥂 Cheers!!
Nice video. Use Vivino mainly to track my own wines I am drinking. Some of the breakdown of the stats are also interesting such as the type of wines you drink regularly, grape varieties etc. The points scale is pretty useless as you always have someone rating against their preference, "This Sauternes is too sweet, I don't like it" etc. But when you follow people you respect their ratings it can be useful. If I see a particular person I know and respect their judgement has rated a wine well I am much more likely to purchase.
Thank you for another interesting tasting. I restarted tasting wines after a long period and I'm now using Vivino. I think the Vivino score gives you an indication but you cannot trust fully on that score. The more scores a wine has, the more the score is balanced and trustworthy. But always be carefull with the reviews because I see a lot of comments that are assigned to the wrong wine (e.g. a comment on a rosé in the comments list of a red wine of the same winery).
I use Vivino to keep track of the wines that I tasted with my personal scores and notes.
Great video! I tend to use Vivino as a guideline, not gospel... it can help make quicker, but semi-informed choices when you might have 50 options for a particular varietal. Wines that are up to $10 3.5+ is potentially worth a try, $10-20 I am looking for 3.8 and above and I will read a few of the lower score reviews to see what they felt was wrong and reference top tasting notes, $20+ I look for 4.0+ and will read some of the more detailed reviews and if there are professional reviews will look at that. Cheers!
Thank you! And thanks for sharing.
I have the same conclusion as yours so strongly agree with you! Cheers!
Thank you for great content. I am very much in agreement with Ben Marshall in the comments. I use it as cellar tracker and own reviews. Also the best wine SoMe I know, for a smaller group seeing and interacting with what friends drink. The stars has to be taken with a grain of salt, as it is targeting a very broad user base, perhaps favoring sweeter and more extracted wines. I look at individual comments and expert reviews to get a better idea of a wine.
Thanks for sharing!
Another excellent video! I had never even heard of Vivino until now. I have downloaded the app and will give it a try. Mr. Baum, I would be very grateful if you could devote a future episode to “tannins”. When I first became interested in wine decades ago I learned that tannin is a component of wine that comes from seeds and stems. Nowadays wine writers always refer to “tannins” (plural), and their often florid descriptions of a wine’s tannins make me think that they can’t be talking about the same thing.
Tannins also come from skins and oak.
Interesting topic for sure!
I don't drink wine but I still found this interesting. I really enjoy it when people find products that are good but not expensive.
Thanks!
'South East Australia' probably refers to the Murray Riverland, which is the largest producing region by litres but is usually quite irrigated and doesn't have the prestige of the Barossa or Hunter Valleys
Great video - should do another VIVNO series, but should be more concentrated on the grape/arena.
1 Rhone wine 3.6 vs 4.2 vivno score
1 Bordeaux wine 3.7 vs 4.1 vivno score
and maybe taste them blind?
you get the idea :)
Thanks for the suggestion. More vivino vids to come!
Did you return the oxidized bottle? Or is returning wines only allowed for more dire faults such as obvious cork taint? Loved the video, interesting concept to rate popular vivino wines. Would love to see a part 2!
Vivino gave me a credit for a cork that was leaking recently, but they requested picture proof. So I'm pretty sure they would not in his case. (Worth a try though)
Thanks! No, I did not in this case... More coming for sure!
Scary label animation on the 19 Crimes!!!
I don't particularly use vivino for the scoring aspect. I use it to catelogue wines that I have tried and enjoyed when I am buying them from shops that I don't typically go to or if my sommelier friends bring something obscure to dinner or something.
Great video. I use vivino and i like it. The scores on vivino is only a guide line, sweet vines ofte get high scores, so you have to look out for this. But there are many vines around the score from 3.5 to 4.0, But if you compare to many wine tasters, wich uses the 100 scale, you often see the score around 90 points. So even if you use the 100 scale, you only use the numbers from 80 to 99.
I would contend you won't find many, if any, 95-100 wines in a grocery store and how many bottles have you seen that had points on the label under 88pts? For mass produced wines, the points on the label are usually 88-91. One does see a 92, 93 or 94 every now and then, but usually they are rated too high. I have a correlation of score to price point that I use and also answers the question what would I pay for a wine. As the quality increases, the scale becomes non-linear, which is why one can not use a linear integer scoring system. A 90 score should mean the wine is worth $25.00; 89 would be $19 and the scale precision goes to the hundredths place, above 90 is when the scale changes from linear to non-linear.
Vivino.... Hmmm.... I don't know the tasters and their palates. So it is fun to go through the TN's there, just for fun.
The problem with the 5 star score on Vivino is that the math tends to congregate the scores near 4. A wine that’s pretty good will likely get lots of 4s but to have something above a 4 you need more people selecting 5 than 3. So 4.1 or 4.2 tells me that most people selected 4 and their were slightly more outliers at 5 than at 3. Obviously, it’s the opposite for anything less than 4. There’s not enough range in the scoring to make a real distinction, which is why it’s very hard to understand the difference between a 4.1 and a 3.9…which is exactly how Vivino wants you to feel so that a 3.9 isn’t an automatic “no sale.”
Spoken like a mathematician!
You should try more of Chris Ringlands Wines. The Alto Moncayo from spain and Dimchurch from Australia are amazing.
I haven’t enjoyed 19 Crimes. My red wine palate has moved away from the high alcohol California wines. I want to taste the soils, some leather, licorice and herbs. I look for this on the descriptions at Total wines. I dont want a lot of Berry, but do enjoy a bit of cherry forward on the Pinots from Oregon.
Im more into beer, but listening to you is very pleasing. I guess youre German? Anyways, very nice channel. You got a abo :)
Thanks, another good video, as to Vivino is a tool that gives some basic reference
Nice presentation, as usual; on the Minuty 'M' Provence Côtes de Provence Rosé, three years ago I had the 2017, and what you call gummy-bears I call NECCO wafer. I scored the 2017 89 points.
Feel free to taste some Dão or Douro Touriga Nacional. Or Baga from Bairrada.
I love portuguese wine :-)
@@davidtanasi243 let's not make a lot of noise... ;) :)
@@davidtanasi243 or the prices could go up and they are really fine comparing quality from other areas.
@@sf6bhkvm I agree, they are very underpriced. Let‘s hope it stays that way :)
I am a Vivino customer and IMO this is the ONLY place to buy wine. I could not be happier.
I sold off a moderately large cellar of mostly great Bordeaux from great vintages based on high scores fom James Suckling and Robert Parker. I much prefer the flavors of California cabernet sauvignon based wines. For me these are the greatest wines and the greatest values in the world. Every one I bought from Vivino was a winner. No other wine from any other region in the world was so consistently pleasing to me. It matches my preferred flavor profile perfectly. My price range is 20 to 35 dollars. I value the ratings of other tasters on the site.
Thanks for sharing you experiences!
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine Here is just one example of countless thousands of competitors from California for my money. IMO nobody comes close to beating wines like these for QPR (quality price ratio)
www.vivino.com/beau-vigne-napa-valley-cabby-cabernet-sauvignon/w/4137119?year=2017&change_ship_to_country_code=us&change_ship_to_state_code=nj&merchant_id=28108&pid=21363697&prefill_token=kgb4.3mdzX2LuN_SS30LVrXXBptJFmY7AwTv2qEFYCsxbCVmxlNas6HdIYYrKqn_knVRY81KWFSs&price_id=21363697&vid=154446737&vintage_id=154446737
Orders over $150 get free shipping in the United States. For a few dollars more they'll pack it in ice, perfect for the hot weather. You can see there is a code at the top for a $21 discount for orders over $150. They have frequent discounts and sales. They sell wines from practically everywhere. If they don't have a wine you want and can't get it they might suggest alternative sources. Everything is very well packaged, virtually no chance of damage and of course they always throw in a free sommelier's wine opener. Personally I prefer using the rabbit which is very easy to use. If there is a problem customer care is excellent.
Yes - Vivino is 95% California Cab Sauv lovers like yourself😂 I love a good CS (Buena Vista might be my fav with excellent QPR), but for a lot of us wine is a thinking experience as much as tasting so naming CA CS your be all end all is like saying you'll only read Moby Dick for the rest of your life because it's the best!😉
@@miriya99 Everyone should enjoy the pleasures in life in their own way. For me wine is purely a sensory experience. Some is very good, some are bad and most are awful. I like CalCabs because the good ones give me the most enjoyment. IMO they are very reasonably priced especially from Vivino and buying on line is very convenient. I've got over $300 worth in my cart right now. Paso Robles is also a high QPR region. I can't tell you how many times I was disappointed by Bordeaux because of the tannins. I might not have lived long enough for them to be ready to drink. A friend of mine said he had given up on Bordeaux and switched to California instead. I had to agree and did the same. I drank some memorable wines from various regions around the world but it was always hit or miss. I keep refocusing on the fact that wine merchants are in business to sell wine, I NEVER trust their opinion or advice. I learned some of their games. Suckling and Parker didn't always agree and even when they did their descriptions were so different you wouldn't know they were talking about the same wine. The consensus of opinion of other customers is the best reviewers I can find. That's why I'm invariably happy with Vivino purchases.
@@markfischer3626 For sure Californian vintners work hard to smooth out those tannins! I also love that you can be sure most will be quite good on release. And there is such a vast market for Cabs that prime land and good winemaking practices are not wasted from an economic perspective, so good QPR is def easier to come by! I agree with you that most mid range and up CA cabs will not disappoint, but personally I'd get bored if that was more than a small portion of what I drink. Nothing wrong with drinking what you know you'll like though!!
Nice greetings from Austria! 🥰 I love our wine culture!!! ✌✌🇦🇹🇦🇹🏝🏝
I love the wines from Tement .. good as German or France Sauvigon Blanc
Cheers!
Hi Konstantin, I have binge-watched quite a few of your videos and in one of them you mentioned that you don't use Vivino or that you had not used it in the past. It would be interesting to know how do you choose which wines to buy if you have not tasted them beforehand. Do you follow some wine critics? Do you use cellar tracker? Is it more word of mouth? Perhaps a forum? Thanks in advance!
Hallo Konstantin! wie gehts es dir? i am glad to know this channels and your content. Ich bin aus Argentina and i want a video of you talking about MALBEC's wines. Dankeschön! tschuss
the zarihs is a really good example of campo de borja. super heavy, high alcohol yet really good and also afordable wines.
If you don't know what Shiraz is I should say you that it's a really really beautiful city in my country IRAN in middle east that they have been making red wine from several thousand years ago and they have a specific way to make wine that is the one and special. That's why that every wine all around the world that is made with such a way called SHIRAZ.
Love your videos, keep up the good work
As a retailer of wine, Vivino has increasingly become a part of my worklife.
Usually I don´t promote Vivino-scores, but my customers do. But the biggest problem, retailwise with Vivino, is that it gives customers a wrong idea of the price of a wine. Since most data on Vivino comes from the users, it is prone to many faults in what a wine cost. I´ve actually been in communication with them, after discovering a wine, retailed at $180, but on Vivino, after 234 reviews, to have an average cost of $12. They changed the price, for that vintage, but the wrong price are listed at all other vintages.
Interesting and pretty annoying if you have to explain that to a customer.
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine I´ve done it several times, though not with that wine, but several others.
They should, in my opinion remove prices, on
wines they don´t sell.
Vivino is the tripadvisor of the wine world
great concept for a video, would like to see more
Thanks! Will do!
It would be good if you could convert your score to vivino score, or simply use vivino score. I never really understood the need for Parker’s 100 points. Like, if a wine with a score 80 is pretty shitty what would the wine with a score 10 taste like? Similarly, if you score it 90 is it more like 4.5, or 4 or below 4?
A 4.0/5.0 is an 80. Appears you liked 19 Crimes more than the other people on vivino who rated it. When you think about it, a 100 point scale is flawed. When have you seen a 10 or 25? It's rare. Maybe those are shifted to make wine vinegar. Pretty much everything is 80 and up, with some 70s occasionally, which means for all intents and purposes a 100 point scale is really a 20 or 25 point one.
I think I have to do another video on Scores.
I would contend less than 25 points, not even ten in reality based on following: How many times have you seen an ACTUAL 95-100 point wine in a grocery store. Most wines that have labels on them are from 88-91, yes you see 93 points but they are rated too high. The integer linear system is not precise enough and in reality, the higher quality wines go up in cost at a nonlinear rate. As is always the case as demonstrated within this video, there is always a tie even with just a handful of wines, with the linear integer method, which 90 was the best wine in this video? The scale like with Vivino not precise nor adequate to differentiate.
I use Vivino when I buy wine, since I’m not a professional it gives me a baseline rating that’s fairly accurate.
Thank
Great video! Vivino is such an amazing app, but it limits the user to a 1-5 score, which explains the majority of 4.0 wines. I offten what to rate a wine with 4.2 or 4.3 (i.e.) and I won't be able! 😒
Thanks for the info!
Vivino reflects in its score the taste of most people, not sommeliers.
Experts tend to like more sophisticated wines, often undrinkable to most people.
I prefer to use Vivino's notes, which learns over time the type of wine I like, rather than sommelier recommendations, which most of the time let me down.
One example is primitives. Most sommeliers hate it, but in Brazil, it's one of the best-qualified and most consumed wines.
For me, good wine is the one I like, simple as that.
The net on rioja wine was used historically as a counterfeiting measure and prevent fraud. Now its purely decorative.
Thanks!
No comment.... Makes me laugh when people come to the restaurant where I work, pay ridiculous money for the experience and when it comes to select the wine they spend lots of time on Vivino, instead of talking to me or the team that builds the wine list.....they are pretty funny!
Said that....
I have always thought is not a reliable tool, as you also experienced.
The fact anyone can score, makes it a democratic tool, yes, but not an objective orientation for a consumer....
Nice to hear your opinion Teacher!
Thank you!
Kind of reminds me of what Michael Scott said about Wikipedia. Paraphrasing, the great thing about Wikipedia is that anybody in the world can put anything they want on it, so you know you’re getting the best information.
Hi
can you make a video of blind tasting or tasting tips about the world of wine?
I've had some good luck on Vivino, but you have to watch out for large wineries like 19 crimes because they can afford to pay a marketing agency to post fake reviews. Wines with fewer than 100 reviews might be spoofed by company employees. Wines who's number of reviews is in the 100's tend to be more accurate. You should also read the reviews in order to determine whether the review is authentic. There is no perfect review site for any class of products, but with a bit of diligence you can filter out the marketing agencies.
Others may disagree (and have!) but I'm not a big fan of petrol notes in Riesling. To me it means the wine is getting a little long in the tooth.
Hi, where can I buy the glass bottle stoppers?
They come with the bottle from Tement
Exactly so. The problem with averaging score systems like Vivino's is that everyone comes to the wine & rates it without saying what the context is. For all we know, when they rave about an Alcase Gewurtstraminer they might have just had a mouthful of chewing gum.. 🤣👍
I guess there are two points that are being missed. In my case I use Vivino when I am in a place with a wide selection of wines none of which I have had before (say, a good supermarket not in my neighborhood) and when there is nobody to consult and no time to do the research on the wines available. If I'm in a rush and need to grab a bottle of wine to bring with me to a friend's place, I'd much rather check some rating than no rating at all.
As for the scores, from my limited experience of tasting various wines and then checking their scores, it seems that those with scores above 4.0 are usually quite good. Of course, there are always exceptions, but I would say that it's way less likely that one would end up with a horrible wine if they take a bottle with 4.0-4.2 rating as compared to a bottle with 3.3-3.5 rating. However, you need to check how many ratings there are and where the ratings are coming from. Sometimes a specific label would only be available in a single country or store chain. And if typical buyers there aren't sophisticated or experienced with wine, the scores are likely to be inflated (at least based on my experience).
Overall I think that Vivino is a great tool that has helped many people discover the world of wine without feeling intimidated by the wide selection available and, as you mentioned yourself in another video, without just relying on very broad tasting notes (in this case on the bottle) that will likely not help distinguish a flawed wine from something enjoyable if you are on front of a long shelf with dozens or hundreds of bottles on it.
100 points from me mate
I’ve been following the channel for a while now, and I’d ask you what do you think about interspecies hybrids? I tried the Othelo variety wine, and it is bad, but not in the way it is most often thought of. There is a mismatch between taste and smell, the smell promises to open the sky, while the taste is modest
Hybrids are an interesting topic I might make a video on!
VINO IS FROM SLOVENIJA AND ONLY SLOVENIJA, AND THE SLOVENIAN VINES ARE THE BEST IN WORLD! VIVINO IS BULŠIT
YOU HAVE TO TASTE! SROLY
I would like to taste more slovenian wines.
Very enjoyable many thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
I use Vivino with a grain of salt. Not everyone there drinks for the same reasons or has the same tastes as I do. Often, they seem to be just chugging it without food. Occasionally one gets some precise tasting notes on there, along with some inebriated word salad, and a bit of humour. I just bought an Aussie Shiraz-Cab blend and Vivino said it was a poor match for me. Surprise-I actually loved the wine and would buy it again if it comes back! It is hard to read all the reviews in the store, but if the majority of them are poor and the ratings are really low, chances are I wont buy the wine.
what wine should i force my children (5y and 3y) to drink=
Please try and review the Tavernello
Hi, I would like to know wether you would like to make a review on Chilean wines?
Do you know anything about the amount of pesticides allowed in Argentinian wine producing regions ?
Not really - but my understanding is that they do not require much as it is very dry
Problem is that you can't score between 4 and 5. Digits should be allowed, but aren't.
Genius post, integer point system not precise enough to differentiate between wines. Of the 90 ratings in this video that were ties, which wine was the best of the same tie 90 score? As to the 19 Crimes, WASM scored the 2018, 19 Crimes Cab at 77.50; the lowest possible score in that model, basically a zero, not even worth $5 with a negative QVR score of -236.49% which is very bad. A positive QVR% means the wine is worth the price. In WASM, a decent wine should make it to 10 seconds with mouthfeel lasting in the overall development, 19 crimes barely made it to 7 seconds. Usually, any wine that doesn't make it to 6 seconds shouldn't be sold. There was zero bouquet and no structure/body. 13.5 ABV for a dry red wine, especially a Cab shouts out to me, not worth it
Welches Glas benutzt er da?
One of the problems I have now come across, is when you bring a bottle to a dinner with friends, and some of them will whip their phones and scan the label before even having a drop. They then pre-form an opinion of the wine before tasting. I think that's pretty rude really, and ends up subtly pushing people to bringing/buying high Vivino scoring wines for the sake of impressing friends.
Wine drinking etiquette should now include banning Vivino scanning until after the event!
It's hard to not like Vivino just because of how many people use it. It's a great way to 'discover' wines but I take reviews with a grain of salt. The reviews are really weighted towards the general publics reaction to a wine and usually heavily price dependent. That isn't to say I haven't found some new favorites thanks to reviews, but even for the most conscious of wine drinkers the day to day palettes can be challenging. 99.99% of us aren't professionals, just enjoying the never ending supply of regions, estates, varietals, and winemakers.
19 crimes having decent reviews is a crime to wine though.
Blown away that 19 Crimes scores so well anywhere. They're very very average wines produced by a marketing department. No one in Australia takes them anywhere near seriously. Any wine that doesn't call out grape variety used and shows the region as a quarter of a very big country is just a joke.
WASM scored the 2018, 19 Crimes Cab at 77.50; the lowest possible score in that model, basically a zero, not even worth $5 with a negative QVR score of -236.49% which is very bad. A positive QVR% means the wine is worth the price. In WASM, a decent wine should make it to 10 seconds with mouthfeel lasting in the overall development, 19 crimes barely made it to 7 seconds. Usually, any wine that doesn't make it to 6 seconds shouldn't be sold. There was zero bouquet and no structure/body. 13.5 ABV for a dry red wine, especially a Cab shouts out to me, not worth it
Nice Video! Will you be more active on Vivino now? :) Because i follow you now :D
Yes I will
Scoring wine is like scoring art. It’s meaningless because it is so subjective. I enjoyed your video however. Wish you all the best.
Same to you!
To me that last wine, the Banished, looks suspiciously dark in a fakey kind of way. Perhaps, too much mega purple?
I think online rating systems (Vivino, Amazon, name your favorite shopping site) are generally skewed in the positive direction. If a product is good, not great, I think folks are more likely to give it a positive review because of human nature. Nobody wants to admit they made a bad purchase. Unfortunately, reading tasting notes left by others doesn't yield much more. Read the tasting notes for a white, and you'll get green apple and citrus. A big red will result in tobacco and leather. Why? Because a lot of folks leaving those notes have read many others and that's how those wines are supposed to taste. My palette is not that refined. I simply buy what I like because it tastes good to me, not because of the tasting notes of a reviewer on the Internet.
Thanks for sharing
BTW glass stoppers are rubbish. They require a plastic membrane to hold the seal effectively, which expands with time and heat causing premature oxidation. Seen too many prematurely advanced examples.
Hi, would you like to make a review on Chilean wines?