Nutrition and diet is a religion in the US. Very dogmatic stuff. Meanwhile, we continue to pump our society full of sugar (which is clearly toxic) and easily-digestible carbs.
This is the most unproductive discussion I've ever watched on JRE. The two guys are fighting with each other like children and taking it personally. I'm not an expert in this subject, am here to learn, not to get more confused.
I was fat for 15 years. Tried cutting calories and exercise. I would get so hungry and tired that I couldn't take it and then quit. After reading Why we get fat, I cut out carbs. I lost 75lbs in 8 months without feeling overly hungry or tired and now 2 years later I'm still at 165 lean and fit. All I do is watch my carb intake and cut back if I put on a couple pounds. I'm not saying that cutting calories won't work. But cutting carbs worked much better for me.
@@bernardobaptista9685 That is technically true, but it kind of misses the point. If you were a financial advisor and someone asked you "How does one get rich?" and your response was "well, you just have to make more money than you lose" that person would probably think you were a fraud. Sure, that is technically how one becomes wealthier. But it is not actually advice, when you think about. What investments need to be made? How much money am I making right this moment, and could that change down the line? Etc, etc. Similarly, it is true that you must take in fewer calories than one expends in order to lose weight. But again, how does one actually go about this in such a way that is achievable and sustainable? Does one simply cut calories but keep eating what they were eating before? Or does the entire composition of the diet change? Are there certain foods that create an unfavorable hormonal environment within the body that increase cravings? On the other hand, are there foods one can eat that create a hormonal environment that lessen cravings? Taubes himself says it best: "Calories in, calories out is a tautology, not an explanation"
@@ultimate8550 Yeah this is true and I think the general answer from the fitness community is to eat calorie dense foods (ie foods that are filling but low in calories). It just so happens that cutting carbs means you will probably increase fat, which tends to be more satiating with fewer calories, however it's certainly equally doable to just swap to lower calorie versions of food and be more aware of how filling the food that you are eating is. Gary Taubes can try and complicate it as much as he wants, but ultimately good vs bad calories for weight loss doesn't exist, it's just filling vs not filling.
@@jacobdejongh9042 You might be able to lose weight in the short term by simply cutting calories and not changing the composition of your diet...The question is, will that be sustainable over the long term? And will you lose weight that you actually want to lose ( losing mostly fat-good vs losing mostly muscle mass-bad). Your body has all sorts of compensatory mechanisms that may make it harder to lose weight over time when you simply cut calories without paying attention to nutrient composition. So in that sense, yes there are good calories and bad calories.
This man saved my life. Literally. I was dying of diabetes and hypertension. Because of GT, I lost over 60 pounds and my vital numbers have improved drastically. I've never taken any diabetic or bp meds.
Joe buddy, great topic for a debate... Horrific guests though... Just when I think i couldn't be more annoyed by one guy the other one speaks and I change my mind
Gary Taubes is actually a really good guest to have on this topic and his work is really interesting. The problem is when Guyenet enters the frey and turns it into an elementary school slap fight.
The debate here is the perfect analogy for what the problem with nutritional science is: as a regular person it is almost ridiculously difficult to find a healthy diet because almost everyone is telling you something different and in certain situations they tell you even completely opposite things. How on earth are you supposed to figure out what works? Nobody explains what you actually gotta monitor. Do I have to measure my blood sugar? Should I eat fat or avoid it? Are certain things only bad in combination with others? People have so many dissenting opinions finding the right way by self experiments takes you ages. How are you supposed to do that with a job and a family? Jesus, no wonder why so many people just give up on it and let themselves get fat.
I think people are simply looking too much into this. Just eat a balanced diet and get regular exercise. The exercise part is tough for most people so find an activity that you actually look forward to. Some suggestions: hiking, hunting, swimming, any team sport, racquetball, tennis, golf.
Insulin is a hormone that makes you store fat. Reduce insulin spikes in duration and number, and you will stay skinny. Ignore all other advice and you will never need to worry about gaining weight
It really honestly mostly comes down to exercise and how much you're exerting yourself. Eating healthy and minding what goes in is a big part too. But I'd like to remind people that they had pastries, bread, and pies in the middle ages too and most people weren't obese. They led more active lives though. Also, the reason why no diet science is even remotely reliable is because it is a basically impossible thing to study scientifically. There are so many compounding variables that the only way to study diet would be to conduct inhumane experiments.
How did that happen? Did you have an accident that made you immobile? Because i broke my right leg and both arms and i put about 100lb on in 16 weeks and that took me just under a year and a half to lose it.
@@howey935 i put on about 66lbs (30kgs) in 6 months, i was training and eating like a motherf**** hurt my leg had to stop training and wasnt able to stop eating.
If you are carb sensitive your body gains unreasonable amounts of weight for what you've eaten. I have seen this in myself...I can not eat carbs especially if I haven't eaten carbs for a while..then I'm extra sensitive. I react in an allergic kind of way. I ate a slice of pizza after no carbs for 3 months....I blew up like a beach ball.
There was a guy who made a movie and a book where he replaced his home cooked low/no sugar diet with a diet that was based on "lite" food products, (high in sugar). He kept his calorie intake and exercise the same, but still ended up gaining fat and his internal organs became very stressed.
I could see loads of refined sugars straining his organs but unless this guy was eating more calories than he burned, there’s no way he was gaining fat.
@@tonedowne i call b.s. i was overweight most of my life and literally lost 50 lbs over 6 months by eating nothing but mcdonalds. That was nearly 10 years ago and I'm now into fitness and healthier than ever. those 2 mcdoubles i ate during that time was only about 800 cals a day. Aint no way in hell anyone is going to gain fat from eating 800 cals a day, idc if it's straight up chocolate bars.
Are you kidding? The old uncle got his time ,but don't allow the young man talk and explain his point , which is seem you not agree with his point ! But doesn't mean he is annoying !
Vive Malasia that’s not the case. The “old uncle” did speak for a while but was just relaying information in a civil way. The “young man” was throwing in tons of insults and speaking in a very antagonist tone. He’s terrible at communicating and convincing, regardless of any facts.
Based from my BMI, I am allotted 2700 calories per day, I typically intake 1600 calories per day while im cutting. It doesn't matter what I eat, processed sugars, carbs or whatever I still lose weight when I drop to 1600. This is just my experience, others may be different, but I think if you are aware of your calorie intake, and dont eat an excess of you allotted BMI, then Im pretty sure you will generally lose weight...
exactly. it’s calories in calories out. calories is just a unit of energy. there’s no way to put on stored energy (which is fat) if you are using more than you in take regardless what type of food you eat. because all food is measured in calories. food = energy. as simple as that
@@ZadeLuna yeah you don't go back to the calories you were eating before. Infact when you reach your weight you gotta do a "reverse diet" which is where you slowly add 1-200 calories back into your diet. For him he gets to 1600 then when he reaches his desired BFP (Body Fat Percent) he'll add 200 (half LB a week) calories back into his diet for a week. See if he stayed his weight or got leaner. Then he'll add another 200 calories the next week check to see if he's staying on weight. If he then gained weight he'll cut back 100 calories and you just slowly go back to baseline.
According to Peter Attia this may be because your hormones are distributing the protein, fat and carbs correctly. For a fat/obese person the hormones aren't functioning correctly. So they may eat less calories than their daily expenditure but still maintain the weight. Also in regards to this video, I wonder if what the old guy said with more carbs comes a decrease in energy expenditure has a correlation with slowness/brain fog/sleepiness you get after eating a rich carb meal. You do not have that if you're only eating carnivore.
@@AlexVeraYTYour metabolism is not a fixed number. It adapts to caloric deficits. Protein is much more metabolically active. 250g of protein requires 300 calories to digest, for example. Not only that, it’s more satiating and your metabolism will not slow down nearly as much in a high-protein diet.
It’s been proven if your under maintenance you will lose weight regardless of what you eat. But improved body composition is different from weight loss. The people who eat a better macro split will have better body composition as they lose weight vs the person who just counts calories and eats whatever and loses weight.
To some degree yes, but not necessarily. You either lose weight as fat or muscle. Now if you want an improved body competition, you generally just need high enough protein content and to lift weights regularly in order for you to lose fat and not muscle. Between carbohydrates and fat, I don't really think it makes a difference how you split that?
Rohan Vaswani I figured the working out was implied I wasn’t just referring to people sitting down all day. And that’s why I said a better macro split moderate amounts of each macro depending on the goal. People who count calories protein is usually very low and fats and carbs significantly higher. So yes I agree but I do believe that a high protein higher carb low fat approach works better in terms of muscle composition
@@MH-yn2yg Yeah definitely high protein. How come you say high carbs and low fat? If you are in a calorie deficit your body will be burning fat regardless and so I don't think high fat would matter as you are still burning more than you intake.
Rohan Vaswani trial and error through getting myself ready for competition and all my clients I’ve prepped for shows. When you’re fat adapted I would argue against the carbs but when your body is running on carbs as the main energy source Ima always vote for higher carbs low to mod fat
Stephan is the epitome of condescension. I feel anger welling up within me when I listen to him speaking. He's one of JRE's worst podcast guests ever. If he's back on again I'm not listening.
Gary kept interrupting him, even though Stephan let him speak unimpeded when it was his turn. I can understand Stephan's attitude and I don't hold it against him, at least in this specific context.
James Murray Just feel thankful you didn't sit through the entire two and a half hour podcast. It was brain melting. Stephan was an insufferable jerk from start to finish.
I thing a lot of people over eat because there body is searching for micro nutrients there just not getting from shit food and if they concentrated on high nutrition food the craving for high calorie crap would sub side after two weeks
Sometimes, most people simply like to eat because there is pleasure in it. SAME REASON a guy drinks 12 beers instead of one. In America, people overeat also, “BECAUSE THEY CAN”
I've noticed this; whenever I'm feeling under the weather, or stressed etc, I find myself craving energy boosts and sweet things, which used to push me towards cakes, puddings etc, but in the last few months I've chosen fruit instead, and will allow myself however much I'm craving of that, to encourage myself to keep the healthier behaviour and get used to getting that sweet fix from better sources.
I lost 75 lbs in a year by eating healthy and lots of cardio and weight lifting. Kept my calories under 1300 a day and always took in at least 70 grams or more of protein a day. Drank copious amounts of water and also got a good night's sleep. It's possible to lose more you have to be smart and be tough on yourself. No pop or high fructose corn syrup
I'm glad you mentioned sleep. Most people ignore it, but it's one of the three big things you need to do. It's right up there with eating right and exercise.
I lost 90 in a year by walking every day for 3 miles, by having approx 1800 net calories per day, and by cutting down sugars on all days but Friday evenings and Saturday mornings. (When I would have a cheat tea / breakfast.)
@@thebesttheworst2277 same junk I usually ate, lost 65 pounds in 6 months. I run 4 miles two times a day but kept my intake to strictly 1500 calories a day. I usually eat only green. But I do snack on junk food quite regularly
I read a great article in Discover recently where they did some serious long term studies of every diet(all carbs vs. all protein vs. all fat) these diets all had the same amount of calories and I was amazed/shocked at the results they got. It really settles the debate about what diet works best once and for all.
Eric Haynes there is no clinical study that has conclusively shown any particular diet composition is superior. What has been repeatedly shown is that weight loss is associated with caloric restriction,however you want to get there diet wise.
Everyone is saying Stephan is a jerk. I'm more interested in who presented the best argument regardless of tone. It absolutely amazes me that people focus on the presentation more than the content. Stephan destoys Gary and yet everyone calls Stephan a jerk
I've cut weight 100 times. and I'm not genetically favored. obesity runs in my family. I am a muscular endomorph who has bulked to 30 percent body fat at 215 lbs with ease while trying to max bench and shit. but then cut to 146 to run a marathon. it's calories in calories out period. it's just a matter of how you want to feel. quality food will give you more energy to therefore burn more calories allowing you to eat more. shit calories will make you feel worse. burn less, therefor you think your in a calorie deficit but your burning 700 less than you thought and now your in a 200 cal surplus. and blame calories in calories out doesn't work. it does. period
I tried watching this but after 5 minutes I just couldn’t take it anymore. The way this guy talks puts me to sleep and it’s like get to the damn point!
what helps me eat well is look and analyze whatever I'm about to eat. if it's a chip I realize it's basically a slice of potato with oil and salt and will give me acne. when I look at a salad I understand that there are healthy benefits compared to fries and that's the decision you need to make.
@@JohnDoe-zg7sn animals meant to eat meat mostly, have shorter colons and more acidic stomachs for digesting the meat because it's bad to let meat sit and putrify in the gi tract for too long. Humans have longer colons and are therefore considered frugivores. Our gi tracts are better suited for vegetables and small amounts of meat. That's why we are herbivores and have been since humans were on earth. Fiber is indigestible yes but it feeds our healthy gut bacteria which is vital for our health.
@@iliaskavalis5241 Potato’s send glucose (SUGAR) into your bloodstream FASTER than consuming liquid sugar! Glucose spikes insulin and insulin resistance is the reason that Obesity is killing so many in the US.
@@1juliasana WHO TOLD YOU THAT? Do some research. Humans are omnivores and we are meant to eat anything we can just in order to survive. There is a reason that CAVE MEN did t get Cancer or Diabetes. There are actually more plants we cannot eat compared to edible plants, Many plant foods create a lot of inflammation in the body. A vegan diet caused me to lose 40 pounds and my health and metabolism is destroyed and I’m rebuilding my body with moderate amounts of grass finished beef and lamb and this is restoring what was the healthiest person ever.
You’re more wrong than imaginable. You’ve quoted the FAILED MODEL that has never worked. Insulin dependence creates metabolic issues that block fat cells and blocks glycogen from burning which prevents weight loss. The reason DIET is a multi billion dollar industry is precisely because Cals in cals out HAVE NEVER WORKED for everyone (mainly obese people) The reason you’ve heard over nd over again THAT DIETS DONT WORK? Is because Cala in Cals out is ineffective for weight loss. There is a huge reason why people in our Country are dying from being fat! And that causation is a very complicated issue which is the opposite of simple . Calling weight loss SIMPLE means you’ve not paid attention a day in your life.
@@marievonhefley9948 you cant break the laws of thermodynamics 🤡 if your in a defecit your gonna lose weight thats the only way . It is really that simple🥴
@@CarsonPell quickly, you'd have have to cut it even more because in the deficit way the body adjusts itself to lesser calories. Fixing insulin problems and eating a diet that doesn't mess with your insulin sensitivity is better than calorie cutting in the long run and to maintain muscle and weightloss and it has been demonstrated time and again.
Anytime I see these videos, I always hear calorie in vs calorie out which is correct, but they never stress the importance of what calories you are putting in. If you don’t eat enough protein, you lose muscle, if you eat a donut, it provides no value for the amount of calories, even if you are below maintenance
yea but they are quite literally saying you'll get fat if its sugar diet. when in the end its simply not true. the law of thermodynamics still stands. calories in calories out. yes it is terrible for you metabolically and sustainability probably wouldn't be great. health would be out of wack. but u wouldn't get fat like they are saying. speaking from experience aswell as being certified at the national academy of sports and medicine.
The studies don’t really account for what “low carb” really means. In the US, the avg American eats 400g of calories of sugar/carbs per day. Low carb would be less than 40g per day not the 200 or so that many studies call low carb. I guess all those folks who have dramatically improved their lives, reversed diabetes, reversed metabolic syndrome, healed various diseases all by eating low carb are just “nice stories”. Completely INSULTING!
Keto D those are just that, stories. They could be false, overstated, not accounting for variables, or any other number of things. The thing Stephan was attempting to explain is that there is no formal scientific proof for low carb diets and there are a number of studies that suggest carbs are not the culprit. Everyone has a friend, or cousin, or knows a guy who lost weight by cutting carbs, but more likely than not they just reduced caloric intake.
Gary definitely makes a better argument. Insulin resistance is very real. The type of calorie makes a big difference in our weight…anyone who understands nutrition should know this.
It's basic knowledge that the more processed a food is, the more energy (and nutrition) the body can absord from it. That's why cooking is such a big deal in human evolution. Not that strange that hyper processed food will make you gain more then very unprocessed food. This is also why I have mixed feelings about the reserach on protein vs carbohydrates vs fat, because it doesn't say how processed those foods were. How those foods were prepared/ delivered to the body. Was it whole coconut/ avocado or oil? Was it white refined carbs or fiber rich whole carbs? Was it eggs/meat or was it protein through nuts, seeds and legumes? The way the food is delivered to the body makes a big difference in how much energy the body absords from it. I don't think we have done good enough research to really put a conclusion on anything yet.
You'll ultimately lose weight, but the propotion of fat and leanmass lost can fluctuate on when & what you intake as calories and how you burn them. I.E A ketogenic fasting diet is musclesparing, a high carb diet is musclecatabolic. Short heavy weight training is musclesparing, anaerobic cardio is musclecatabolic.
Excellent discussion! Gary Taubs is brilliant and he talks on a level that is challenging to understand but he's 100% correct. And he debunks the study Stephen is referencing in great detail in his book referenced here. But you need a decent IQ and lots of science geek interest and time to understand the science behind his argument.
The PHD guy is right, you definitely gain muscle when you get fat. I gained around 50 lbs my freshman year of college, i was super skinny around 170 and I’m 6’4, and now I’m around 220. That was honestly basically all fat because i stopped working out, and i could still do the same number of push ups after gaining all that weight. When i was 170 theres was no way i could even do one push up with 50lbs on my back, but at 220 i have no problem doing 5 pushups. That shows i had to have gained a considerable amount of muscle to be able to do that, and that was with zero working out at All. Edit: its clear a few people are misinterpreting what i was saying as somehow supporting an unhealthy lifestyle. Come on, that’s ridiculous. I was just pointing out my anecdotal experience of at least maintaining the same level of muscle relative to my weight, even though i was being unhealthy. When i was 170 i could do basically the same amount of body weight exercises as i can at 220, meaning the same amount of squats or pull ups. In my opinion, Its clear the brain is aware of how much you weigh, and tries to keep your muscles up to par with your body weight. Which is exactly what the PHD guy was saying.
Listen you fat fuck, you only gain muscle if you work out or exercise the muscles accordingly. What you gained was a bunch of weight and the relative strength gains is simply a byproduct of weight gain.
3LlTE Cursing and calling me a fat fuck doesn’t make you right lmao. Calm down buddy, if a discussion about weight gets you this riled up, then you must be a very unhappy person. Its clear you didn’t even read what i wrote. Thats what i was saying you idiot, i was saying the relative strength is due to the weight gain.
@@Bolt99K Read what you wrote - "That shows i had to have gained a considerable amount of muscle to be able to do that, and that was with zero working out at All." Your statement clearly says that you gained a "considerable amount of muscle" by simply eating like a fat fuck without working out. Sorry to burst your bubble buddy, but you didn't get ANY muscle. Strength gains does not directly equate to muscle gains.
3LlTE Okay so doctors don’t even fully understand the body, so since you’re stating that so confidently, then you must fully understand the body? I was agreeing with the exact thing the guy with the damn PHD was saying. If i gained 50 lbs and no muscle, then I wouldn’t be able to move. That literally makes no sense. When you gain a fuck ton of weight, you have to gain some muscle too just to be able to move around. I edited my original comment to clarify my point, because it’s clear you’re misinterpreting what I’m saying. I’m in No means advocating or supporting being unhealthy. I
It’s All thermodynamics! It’s not possible to change that. If you cut your calories below maintenance level, you Will lose weight. I lowered my calorie intake, and ate More carbs, and protein roughly remained the same. I lost more weight than I thought I would, and this will happen with everyone (health wise permitting)will lose weight. Joe’s 2000 cal v.s. 2000 cal of different food, if your maintenance level is lower than that, you 100% will lose weight. All drawn out, lower the calories, not counting macros, you will lose weight.
My personal experience has been that restricting carbohydrates improves my blood glucose level leading to greater insulin sensitivity and a loss of weight. It may be that years of poor diet has created an inability to cope with a high carb load and that idea is supported by the fact that while I can improve my HbA1c to near normal, any return to a diet containing a greater proportion of carbohydrates leads to a degradation of insulin sensitivity and weight gain. My own hypothesis is that humans while young and healthy can consume a diet balanced in all 3 macros and provided they don't punish their liver and pancreas with years of excessive sugar and refined carbohydrate consumption will remain metabolically healthy throughout their lives. Modern diets however are so replete with junk foods that a huge proportion of people are damaging their organs and ultimately only the strictest control of carbs will enable a return to more normal weight and metabolic health. Just as we can wear out our joints over time, we can also wear out our internal organs. We can take remedial steps to cope but the damage once done is probably permanent.
Any bodybuilder will tell you this is wrong. It’s about calories in vs calories out. I lost 36 pounds, from obese to lean, eating kfc / junk food EVERY DAY. And so does every bodybuilder in the know. IIFYM.
It’s pretty simply 500 calories off your maintenance google tdee to work it out. Then 1g of protein per pound body weight multiply that by 4 = your protein calories the remaining calories spit your carbs and fats at what suits your lifestyle.
Dr. Guyenet was a complete and utterly childish in this debate. I lost a lot of respect for him in this debate. The absolute condescension in his voice for Gary Taubes was unbearable. Very smart person, but absolutely too self-righteous for me.
FYI 2700 calories is way too much for most people. All online calculators over estimate calories because they go by the average maintenance calories. If you want to get in shape (10%bf) and stay in shape you need water less calories. I'm a 28 yr old male, I'm177cmtalland weigh 77kg, I train everyday, I eat great quality food sources for bodybuilding. And my maintenance level calories to stay below 10%bf is 2,000 calories.
Yes 2700 is very high for the average person. I think the prefered amount is 1500. Also depends what you do for exercise and genetics. I play hockey and soccer regularly plus i have a physical job. Im about 5'11" and about 170 lbs. When i start having longer shifts at work i lose weight and i ingest about 5000 calories a day.
@@jasonchilds5397 I have tapered my calories to an optimal level with my be calipers, daily training and 2 week intervals. These are my optimal calories assuming I have plenty of protein, a small amount of fat and clean carbs like oats and rice and cut out all else. I will gain weight on any extra calories. I think when you are getting better sources of nutrients your total calories required is less and the quality is higher.
Insulin is the “tissue” (muscle & fat) building hormone. Carbs stimulate insulin release. Glycemic Load & Glycemic Index. There’s apps for this stuff. Cheap carbs & Junk food stimulates lots of insulin release. High load, high index. Fat and some muscle gets built.
I will say they both have a point it starts as just 1 extra coke a day but as the body adds weights the basal metabolic rate increase cause them to eat at maintance everyone wants to eat at maintence but because of poor diet choices and bad habit they continually gradually consume more and more calories
Stephan should have played it more cool because what he is saying is correct. Gary is literally the most biased person on this topic and does not look at things objectively. Look up his debate with Alan Aragon. He got torched in that one as well.
That makes no sense. Are you saying you were eating a high carb diet with exact same calorie intake as your low carb diet? There would literally now change in your weight. What im guessing you are saying is you went from an unhealthy shitty diet to a healthy one. Thats totally different.
@@nervinsidhu5663 what they're arguing about is the mechanisms, Stephan agrees you can lose (or gain) weight on a low carb diet. But Gary's model suggests 10000 kcal of butter a day would lead to no fat gain.
It's calories in vs. calories out if you want to lose WEIGHT. In order to lose FAT, you must first gain enough MUSCLE and then lose enough WEIGHT to lower your BF%.
@@_Nibi Read what I wrote again, carefully, dumbass. I figured putting certain key words in all CAPS would help you inbreds but clearly this isn't the case.
Best way to gain muscle is to eat enough to gain weight and muscle but also always fat because you can’t control that, but then you lose weight to drop body fat and look better 3LITE just doesn’t know how to structure his thought
I feel like shit and gain weight when I’m eating high carb. I start dropping quick and feel better when I cut carbs and stick to veggies protein and fruit even with the same calorie range so I’m kinda with Gary.
dude literally said we reject the studies we don't like, and by don't like we mean got the answer we don't agree with. that's not how science works bro
So, the one study Gaty cited has participants that defied the laws of physics, amd when those participants are removed, the study shows differently. I think this needs to ne fact checked.
That Stephan dude is extremely disrespectful and thinks he's smarter than everyone else. I lose fat faster on low carb diet than on high carb diet despite intaking same # of calories, as do a lot of my friends and family.
Pasta IS THE MOST POISONOUS NON FOOD that’s processed and sold as Human food. If you’ll wake up a bit and find out what has been done to the American Wheat Crop. And then understand what, why and how ROUND UP (Glycosphate Pesticide Cancer Causing)is doused onto all wheat crops prior to harvesting, then you’ll begin to comprehend that Pasta (Seminole Wheat Flour) is the most poisonous, least nutrients, insulin resistance causing, non food produced right next to GMO Corn. The reason you hear about GLUTEN? Is because that the center part of the wheat kernel and it’s not just worthless as a food/nutrient. Many people react so badly they must be hospitalized. People are dying who sprayed Glycospahte on crops and accidentally got it on their skin! And yet, you’re eating it thinking that it’s food, along with the rest of people in this Cou try unable to mentally absorb a few nutrition courses.
insulin or not, carbs or not, high fat or low fat.... man dont complicate things. calories in vs calories out. use carbs for workout energy and good fats for hormonal health etc. eat enough protein to be full and 2 restore body tissue ( protein is more satiating and burns way more calories than carbs through harder to digest for the body). move enough/train muscle and don't overeat all days of the week.. done
“It doesn’t matter what you eat.” Except for one thing: if you eat too many carbs and in particular ultra processed junk food...then you will be much hungrier and will tend to overeat.
Stephan runs me the wrong way. He gets a little petulant when talking to Gary, and it’s unnecessary. Though, Gary also isn’t playing very nice. Bottom line, this is an odd hill to die on. Who the F cares, if you want to lose weight…. Eat fewer calories.
people " beefing " over calories lol
People "beef" over everything 😂
“Beefing” over beef quality
Hahahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
First world problems
There was zero need for this to be heated...wtf
well, when a jews in a room it normally gets heated
Wow Mawk got something you want to get off ur chest there bud ?
@@mawkgrasper6580 Aren't you edgy.
Mawk Grasper I like you
Nutrition and diet is a religion in the US. Very dogmatic stuff. Meanwhile, we continue to pump our society full of sugar (which is clearly toxic) and easily-digestible carbs.
This is the most unproductive discussion I've ever watched on JRE. The two guys are fighting with each other like children and taking it personally. I'm not an expert in this subject, am here to learn, not to get more confused.
Stephan Guyenet might be right, but he is an asshole for sure.
You probably are more expert than these 2 stooges, despite titles. Wtf was this.
Really so you didn't learn anything from this wtf ??????????
stephan looks like the kinda guy who reminds the teacher to check homework
Nah not really
Yea he really does
@@morbidlyphobese8039 Agreed
LOL I bet you never had your shit ready then huh? 😂
😂
I was fat for 15 years. Tried cutting calories and exercise. I would get so hungry and tired that I couldn't take it and then quit. After reading Why we get fat, I cut out carbs. I lost 75lbs in 8 months without feeling overly hungry or tired and now 2 years later I'm still at 165 lean and fit. All I do is watch my carb intake and cut back if I put on a couple pounds. I'm not saying that cutting calories won't work. But cutting carbs worked much better for me.
You still had to be in a caloric deficit to lose those 75lb...
@@bernardobaptista9685 That is technically true, but it kind of misses the point. If you were a financial advisor and someone asked you "How does one get rich?" and your response was "well, you just have to make more money than you lose" that person would probably think you were a fraud. Sure, that is technically how one becomes wealthier. But it is not actually advice, when you think about. What investments need to be made? How much money am I making right this moment, and could that change down the line? Etc, etc.
Similarly, it is true that you must take in fewer calories than one expends in order to lose weight. But again, how does one actually go about this in such a way that is achievable and sustainable? Does one simply cut calories but keep eating what they were eating before? Or does the entire composition of the diet change? Are there certain foods that create an unfavorable hormonal environment within the body that increase cravings? On the other hand, are there foods one can eat that create a hormonal environment that lessen cravings? Taubes himself says it best: "Calories in, calories out is a tautology, not an explanation"
@@ultimate8550 great analogy
@@ultimate8550 Yeah this is true and I think the general answer from the fitness community is to eat calorie dense foods (ie foods that are filling but low in calories). It just so happens that cutting carbs means you will probably increase fat, which tends to be more satiating with fewer calories, however it's certainly equally doable to just swap to lower calorie versions of food and be more aware of how filling the food that you are eating is. Gary Taubes can try and complicate it as much as he wants, but ultimately good vs bad calories for weight loss doesn't exist, it's just filling vs not filling.
@@jacobdejongh9042 You might be able to lose weight in the short term by simply cutting calories and not changing the composition of your diet...The question is, will that be sustainable over the long term? And will you lose weight that you actually want to lose ( losing mostly fat-good vs losing mostly muscle mass-bad). Your body has all sorts of compensatory mechanisms that may make it harder to lose weight over time when you simply cut calories without paying attention to nutrient composition. So in that sense, yes there are good calories and bad calories.
This man saved my life. Literally. I was dying of diabetes and hypertension. Because of GT, I lost over 60 pounds and my vital numbers have improved drastically. I've never taken any diabetic or bp meds.
Just by following Gary's advice?
@@emiliolopez1808 He's the one who convinced me to stick with a low-carb lifestyle, so I credit him for that.
@@emiliolopez1808 Gary has writtten many great well-informed books.
You should check them out!
Somone please give Gary a glass of water.
Joe buddy, great topic for a debate... Horrific guests though... Just when I think i couldn't be more annoyed by one guy the other one speaks and I change my mind
Viktor Spanovic seemed like they both were arguing about what they “think” works with no evidence lol
Gary Taubes is actually a really good guest to have on this topic and his work is really interesting. The problem is when Guyenet enters the frey and turns it into an elementary school slap fight.
God almighty they are horrible to listen to.
@@gympho1 Guyenet cited a ton of evidence and referred to a blog post with dozens and dozens of studies.
🤣
The debate here is the perfect analogy for what the problem with nutritional science is: as a regular person it is almost ridiculously difficult to find a healthy diet because almost everyone is telling you something different and in certain situations they tell you even completely opposite things. How on earth are you supposed to figure out what works? Nobody explains what you actually gotta monitor. Do I have to measure my blood sugar? Should I eat fat or avoid it? Are certain things only bad in combination with others? People have so many dissenting opinions finding the right way by self experiments takes you ages. How are you supposed to do that with a job and a family? Jesus, no wonder why so many people just give up on it and let themselves get fat.
I think people are simply looking too much into this. Just eat a balanced diet and get regular exercise. The exercise part is tough for most people so find an activity that you actually look forward to. Some suggestions: hiking, hunting, swimming, any team sport, racquetball, tennis, golf.
Insulin is a hormone that makes you store fat. Reduce insulin spikes in duration and number, and you will stay skinny. Ignore all other advice and you will never need to worry about gaining weight
It really honestly mostly comes down to exercise and how much you're exerting yourself. Eating healthy and minding what goes in is a big part too. But I'd like to remind people that they had pastries, bread, and pies in the middle ages too and most people weren't obese. They led more active lives though.
Also, the reason why no diet science is even remotely reliable is because it is a basically impossible thing to study scientifically. There are so many compounding variables that the only way to study diet would be to conduct inhumane experiments.
Really not that fucking hard bro. Move more eat less
@@casthedemonIt mostly comes down to the amount of food you are eating.
15% protein calories per day equals no gains
spoken like a true bro!
He won’t be speaking about a person who exercises
On a 4000 calorie bulk? Moron
Thanks for explaining that blindingly obvious fact, dick head.
Watch this on 1.75 speed.
You're welcome.
Thank you sir! 😝
I think 1.5x is better
@@dr.martinlroberts1908 same
1.25 is perfect
I went with 1.25... 1.5 was good for the older guy but once Joe and the younger guy started talking seemed too fast.
Safe to say neither of these kids will ever be back on the Holy JRE
One of my favorite episodes because the arguing was hysterical.
I know. "Oh we'll get to the text books, Gary. Don't worry."(said with high amount of sarcasm) LOL
I put nearly 80lbs on in 8 months, beat that.
My Man! (Aquaman voice)
How did that happen? Did you have an accident that made you immobile? Because i broke my right leg and both arms and i put about 100lb on in 16 weeks and that took me just under a year and a half to lose it.
@@howey935 i put on about 66lbs (30kgs) in 6 months, i was training and eating like a motherf**** hurt my leg had to stop training and wasnt able to stop eating.
@@Danoliveira3 Thats called not having any self-control.
If you are carb sensitive your body gains unreasonable amounts of weight for what you've eaten. I have seen this in myself...I can not eat carbs especially if I haven't eaten carbs for a while..then I'm extra sensitive. I react in an allergic kind of way. I ate a slice of pizza after no carbs for 3 months....I blew up like a beach ball.
There was a guy who made a movie and a book where he replaced his home cooked low/no sugar diet with a diet that was based on "lite" food products, (high in sugar). He kept his calorie intake and exercise the same, but still ended up gaining fat and his internal organs became very stressed.
Interesting that makes sense just like the McDonald's guy who made the documentary he lost weight but his blood pressure and stuff got really bad
@@kody1654 wrong, it's super size me
I could see loads of refined sugars straining his organs but unless this guy was eating more calories than he burned, there’s no way he was gaining fat.
@@scrowfunk8109 If you want to check it out, I am pretty sure the movie is just called Sugar. There is a book as well.
@@tonedowne i call b.s. i was overweight most of my life and literally lost 50 lbs over 6 months by eating nothing but mcdonalds. That was nearly 10 years ago and I'm now into fitness and healthier than ever. those 2 mcdoubles i ate during that time was only about 800 cals a day. Aint no way in hell anyone is going to gain fat from eating 800 cals a day, idc if it's straight up chocolate bars.
The younger guy is so annoying, I don't even care what he's saying.
Are you kidding? The old uncle got his time ,but don't allow the young man talk and explain his point , which is seem you not agree with his point ! But doesn't mean he is annoying !
Vive Malasia that’s not the case. The “old uncle” did speak for a while but was just relaying information in a civil way. The “young man” was throwing in tons of insults and speaking in a very antagonist tone. He’s terrible at communicating and convincing, regardless of any facts.
@@search4wisdom Agreed, I don't even care about the studies, I just want him to be wrong.
@@elqsabe1 he was coming across as a twat and getting personal for some reason
Based from my BMI, I am allotted 2700 calories per day, I typically intake 1600 calories per day while im cutting. It doesn't matter what I eat, processed sugars, carbs or whatever I still lose weight when I drop to 1600. This is just my experience, others may be different, but I think if you are aware of your calorie intake, and dont eat an excess of you allotted BMI, then Im pretty sure you will generally lose weight...
exactly. it’s calories in calories out. calories is just a unit of energy. there’s no way to put on stored energy (which is fat) if you are using more than you in take regardless what type of food you eat. because all food is measured in calories. food = energy. as simple as that
@@ZadeLuna yeah you don't go back to the calories you were eating before. Infact when you reach your weight you gotta do a "reverse diet" which is where you slowly add 1-200 calories back into your diet. For him he gets to 1600 then when he reaches his desired BFP (Body Fat Percent) he'll add 200 (half LB a week) calories back into his diet for a week. See if he stayed his weight or got leaner. Then he'll add another 200 calories the next week check to see if he's staying on weight. If he then gained weight he'll cut back 100 calories and you just slowly go back to baseline.
That becuse youre statving youre self 1600 cal is what a toddler shuld be eating if u are cuting make 2000 ore more
You are starving
According to Peter Attia this may be because your hormones are distributing the protein, fat and carbs correctly. For a fat/obese person the hormones aren't functioning correctly. So they may eat less calories than their daily expenditure but still maintain the weight.
Also in regards to this video, I wonder if what the old guy said with more carbs comes a decrease in energy expenditure has a correlation with slowness/brain fog/sleepiness you get after eating a rich carb meal. You do not have that if you're only eating carnivore.
Gary’s book “why we get fat” makes so much more sense than this debate. Avoid simple processed carbs to avoid weight gain.
You can eat simple processed carbs and lose weight fam
Avoid too many calories and you lose weight
@@AlexVeraYTYour metabolism is not a fixed number. It adapts to caloric deficits.
Protein is much more metabolically active. 250g of protein requires 300 calories to digest, for example. Not only that, it’s more satiating and your metabolism will not slow down nearly as much in a high-protein diet.
12:04 such a dad move...by Joe Rogan, it was like he was helping two kids settle an argument LOL
As an obese 50 year old who has already lost 40lbs... this clip makes me want to eat a box of Krispy Kremes
Lol hope you're doing better now
@@TyroneBiggums789he became obese again sadly 😔
@@Ivantheterrible495 wait how do you know ?
@@TyroneBiggums789 I know because I made it the fuck up
@@Ivantheterrible495 yeah I figured
Watching this after eating a large chocolate bar and half a bag of jujubes
It’s been proven if your under maintenance you will lose weight regardless of what you eat. But improved body composition is different from weight loss. The people who eat a better macro split will have better body composition as they lose weight vs the person who just counts calories and eats whatever and loses weight.
To some degree yes, but not necessarily. You either lose weight as fat or muscle. Now if you want an improved body competition, you generally just need high enough protein content and to lift weights regularly in order for you to lose fat and not muscle. Between carbohydrates and fat, I don't really think it makes a difference how you split that?
Rohan Vaswani I figured the working out was implied I wasn’t just referring to people sitting down all day. And that’s why I said a better macro split moderate amounts of each macro depending on the goal. People who count calories protein is usually very low and fats and carbs significantly higher. So yes I agree but I do believe that a high protein higher carb low fat approach works better in terms of muscle composition
@@MH-yn2yg Yeah definitely high protein. How come you say high carbs and low fat? If you are in a calorie deficit your body will be burning fat regardless and so I don't think high fat would matter as you are still burning more than you intake.
Rohan Vaswani trial and error through getting myself ready for competition and all my clients I’ve prepped for shows. When you’re fat adapted I would argue against the carbs but when your body is running on carbs as the main energy source Ima always vote for higher carbs low to mod fat
The young guy was really rude about it lol
The Kevin Hall study was an 11 day study, of which, only 6days they are on the changed diet? That's way too small to show anything of worth.
thanks for this podcast, it help me fall asleep.
Stephan is the epitome of condescension. I feel anger welling up within me when I listen to him speaking. He's one of JRE's worst podcast guests ever. If he's back on again I'm not listening.
Dennis Wilson
So before that happens, thx for coming. Bye bye
luxxs I see that writing in English is not your strong suit.
Gary kept interrupting him, even though Stephan let him speak unimpeded when it was his turn.
I can understand Stephan's attitude and I don't hold it against him, at least in this specific context.
Jeez 🤣
Gary seemed to be the rude one in this. Stephen let Gary speak uninterrupted for ages but Gary wouldn't extend the same courtesy.
They are theives they stole 17 minutes of my life , it's a pissing contest who's the bigger nerd 😂😂😂
James Murray Just feel thankful you didn't sit through the entire two and a half hour podcast. It was brain melting. Stephan was an insufferable jerk from start to finish.
I thing a lot of people over eat because there body is searching for micro nutrients there just not getting from shit food and if they concentrated on high nutrition food the craving for high calorie crap would sub side after two weeks
Underrated comment. Similar to how the human body signals hunger when it needs salt.
Interesting
Sometimes, most people simply like to eat because there is pleasure in it. SAME REASON a guy drinks 12 beers instead of one.
In America, people overeat also, “BECAUSE THEY CAN”
Cool theory
I've noticed this; whenever I'm feeling under the weather, or stressed etc, I find myself craving energy boosts and sweet things, which used to push me towards cakes, puddings etc, but in the last few months I've chosen fruit instead, and will allow myself however much I'm craving of that, to encourage myself to keep the healthier behaviour and get used to getting that sweet fix from better sources.
Talking about nutrition is a big industry. Just ignore it, eat less calories, eat semi healthy food, exercise. It’s that easy
Oh, it’s even easier to get healthier by diet than you think. Gary is 100% correct and all the new data supports it.
Get these two in the Octagon Joe!!, that would be entertaining!!
I lost 50 pounds in a few months intermittent fasting daily and eating exactly one Digiorno pizza a day.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 man if it works , it works
I lost 75 lbs in a year by eating healthy and lots of cardio and weight lifting. Kept my calories under 1300 a day and always took in at least 70 grams or more of protein a day. Drank copious amounts of water and also got a good night's sleep. It's possible to lose more you have to be smart and be tough on yourself. No pop or high fructose corn syrup
I'm glad you mentioned sleep. Most people ignore it, but it's one of the three big things you need to do. It's right up there with eating right and exercise.
I lost 90 in a year by walking every day for 3 miles, by having approx 1800 net calories per day, and by cutting down sugars on all days but Friday evenings and Saturday mornings. (When I would have a cheat tea / breakfast.)
70 grams of protein? couldn’t have been powder because those farts would be unbearable lol
Give us an example of your 1400 calorie a day meals and patterns of eating please ?
@@thebesttheworst2277 same junk I usually ate, lost 65 pounds in 6 months. I run 4 miles two times a day but kept my intake to strictly 1500 calories a day. I usually eat only green. But I do snack on junk food quite regularly
This guys vocal fry is infuriating
He’s a party girl apparently
What just happened? I didn’t absorb any of that...
Like absorbing 10 calories into a fat cell?
It is already confusing and it is more confusing Cuz they talk like they are about to cry
Second guy made so much sense. Explains why really big people lose weight fast with little changes to their diet
I tossed my own poop at a window the other day..
roadtrippinsteve I fucked a squirrel once..
roadtrippinsteve you know Allison with the fake leg and big tits?
Take a shot of alcohol everytime he says hypothesis
rip... sad you died of alcohol poisoning
skippy I’m dead. This is my ghost.
Ahahahah literally
"i'm completely confused" lol
I read a great article in Discover recently where they did some serious long term studies of every diet(all carbs vs. all protein vs. all fat) these diets all had the same amount of calories and I was amazed/shocked at the results they got. It really settles the debate about what diet works best once and for all.
Eric Haynes there is no clinical study that has conclusively shown any particular diet composition is superior. What has been repeatedly shown is that weight loss is associated with caloric restriction,however you want to get there diet wise.
rob oliver A plant based diet will almost always win. I would just add a little fish here and there but that’s a difficult diet to abide by.
Joe “Gary, Gary, Gary... Please!” Rogan
Gary’s one of those professors that take 50 mins to say one sentence of course material. Dude is clueless 😂😂😂
I totally agree. The first minute of this video had my attention then he said nothing else.
This is literally causing me to lose brain cells
Everyone is saying Stephan is a jerk. I'm more interested in who presented the best argument regardless of tone. It absolutely amazes me that people focus on the presentation more than the content. Stephan destoys Gary and yet everyone calls Stephan a jerk
This is an incredible example of the dunning kruger effect in the wild.
Exactly #ThankYou
somebody can have the best argumentation and still behave like a jerk
Because tone is important in a debate. It makes you look like a social moron
I've cut weight 100 times. and I'm not genetically favored. obesity runs in my family. I am a muscular endomorph who has bulked to 30 percent body fat at 215 lbs with ease while trying to max bench and shit. but then cut to 146 to run a marathon. it's calories in calories out period. it's just a matter of how you want to feel. quality food will give you more energy to therefore burn more calories allowing you to eat more. shit calories will make you feel worse. burn less, therefor you think your in a calorie deficit but your burning 700 less than you thought and now your in a 200 cal surplus. and blame calories in calories out doesn't work. it does. period
Exactly ..I'm the same body type and made numerous transformations bulked to shred, I totally agree
People that say a calorie is a calorie are very misinformed
I tried watching this but after 5 minutes I just couldn’t take it anymore. The way this guy talks puts me to sleep and it’s like get to the damn point!
what helps me eat well is look and analyze whatever I'm about to eat. if it's a chip I realize it's basically a slice of potato with oil and salt and will give me acne. when I look at a salad I understand that there are healthy benefits compared to fries and that's the decision you need to make.
Fried potatos are not bad for you. It's all about the process and the ingredients. A salad can be worse than fried potatos.
ilias kavalis this is the most ridiculous statement I’ve seen in a long time
@@JohnDoe-zg7sn animals meant to eat meat mostly, have shorter colons and more acidic stomachs for digesting the meat because it's bad to let meat sit and putrify in the gi tract for too long. Humans have longer colons and are therefore considered frugivores. Our gi tracts are better suited for vegetables and small amounts of meat. That's why we are herbivores and have been since humans were on earth. Fiber is indigestible yes but it feeds our healthy gut bacteria which is vital for our health.
@@iliaskavalis5241 Potato’s send glucose (SUGAR) into your bloodstream FASTER than consuming liquid sugar! Glucose spikes insulin and insulin resistance is the reason that Obesity is killing so many in the US.
@@1juliasana WHO TOLD YOU THAT? Do some research. Humans are omnivores and we are meant to eat anything we can just in order to survive. There is a reason that CAVE MEN did t get Cancer or Diabetes. There are actually more plants we cannot eat compared to edible plants, Many plant foods create a lot of inflammation in the body. A vegan diet caused me to lose 40 pounds and my health and metabolism is destroyed and I’m rebuilding my body with moderate amounts of grass finished beef and lamb and this is restoring what was the healthiest person ever.
Its calories in calories out. Surplus = gain weight , defecit = lose weight , that simple
You’re more wrong than imaginable. You’ve quoted the FAILED MODEL that has never worked. Insulin dependence creates metabolic issues that block fat cells and blocks glycogen from burning which prevents weight loss. The reason DIET is a multi billion dollar industry is precisely because Cals in cals out HAVE NEVER WORKED for everyone (mainly obese people) The reason you’ve heard over nd over again THAT DIETS DONT WORK? Is because Cala in Cals out is ineffective for weight loss. There is a huge reason why people in our Country are dying from being fat! And that causation is a very complicated issue which is the opposite of simple . Calling weight loss SIMPLE means you’ve not paid attention a day in your life.
@@marievonhefley9948 you cant break the laws of thermodynamics 🤡 if your in a defecit your gonna lose weight thats the only way . It is really that simple🥴
@@CarsonPell quickly, you'd have have to cut it even more because in the deficit way the body adjusts itself to lesser calories. Fixing insulin problems and eating a diet that doesn't mess with your insulin sensitivity is better than calorie cutting in the long run and to maintain muscle and weightloss and it has been demonstrated time and again.
@@marievonhefley9948 Hmm and yet i've lost 110 pounds with CICO..........
Emojis = win
Anytime I see these videos, I always hear calorie in vs calorie out which is correct, but they never stress the importance of what calories you are putting in. If you don’t eat enough protein, you lose muscle, if you eat a donut, it provides no value for the amount of calories, even if you are below maintenance
yea but they are quite literally saying you'll get fat if its sugar diet. when in the end its simply not true. the law of thermodynamics still stands. calories in calories out. yes it is terrible for you metabolically and sustainability probably wouldn't be great. health would be out of wack. but u wouldn't get fat like they are saying. speaking from experience aswell as being certified at the national academy of sports and medicine.
The studies don’t really account for what “low carb” really means. In the US, the avg American eats 400g of calories of sugar/carbs per day. Low carb would be less than 40g per day not the 200 or so that many studies call low carb. I guess all those folks who have dramatically improved their lives, reversed diabetes, reversed metabolic syndrome, healed various diseases all by eating low carb are just “nice stories”. Completely INSULTING!
Keto D those are just that, stories. They could be false, overstated, not accounting for variables, or any other number of things. The thing Stephan was attempting to explain is that there is no formal scientific proof for low carb diets and there are a number of studies that suggest carbs are not the culprit. Everyone has a friend, or cousin, or knows a guy who lost weight by cutting carbs, but more likely than not they just reduced caloric intake.
Every time I can’t sleep i play this podcast and pass the fuck out
And they will ignore the masses of people thriving on keto/carnivore diets, who struggled for years on the "suggested" micronutrient split
Gary definitely makes a better argument. Insulin resistance is very real. The type of calorie makes a big difference in our weight…anyone who understands nutrition should know this.
It's basic knowledge that the more processed a food is, the more energy (and nutrition) the body can absord from it. That's why cooking is such a big deal in human evolution. Not that strange that hyper processed food will make you gain more then very unprocessed food.
This is also why I have mixed feelings about the reserach on protein vs carbohydrates vs fat, because it doesn't say how processed those foods were. How those foods were prepared/ delivered to the body. Was it whole coconut/ avocado or oil? Was it white refined carbs or fiber rich whole carbs? Was it eggs/meat or was it protein through nuts, seeds and legumes? The way the food is delivered to the body makes a big difference in how much energy the body absords from it.
I don't think we have done good enough research to really put a conclusion on anything yet.
when calories in are lower then calorieburnrate u lose fat its that easy, stop overanalyzing everthing, keep it simple
You'll ultimately lose weight, but the propotion of fat and leanmass lost can fluctuate on when & what you intake as calories and how you burn them. I.E
A ketogenic fasting diet is musclesparing, a high carb diet is musclecatabolic.
Short heavy weight training is musclesparing, anaerobic cardio is musclecatabolic.
5 beers a day…. Is that bad? 😶
Excellent discussion! Gary Taubs is brilliant and he talks on a level that is challenging to understand but he's 100% correct. And he debunks the study Stephen is referencing in great detail in his book referenced here. But you need a decent IQ and lots of science geek interest and time to understand the science behind his argument.
The beef was super necessary
The PHD guy is right, you definitely gain muscle when you get fat. I gained around 50 lbs my freshman year of college, i was super skinny around 170 and I’m 6’4, and now I’m around 220. That was honestly basically all fat because i stopped working out, and i could still do the same number of push ups after gaining all that weight. When i was 170 theres was no way i could even do one push up with 50lbs on my back, but at 220 i have no problem doing 5 pushups. That shows i had to have gained a considerable amount of muscle to be able to do that, and that was with zero working out at All.
Edit: its clear a few people are misinterpreting what i was saying as somehow supporting an unhealthy lifestyle. Come on, that’s ridiculous. I was just pointing out my anecdotal experience of at least maintaining the same level of muscle relative to my weight, even though i was being unhealthy. When i was 170 i could do basically the same amount of body weight exercises as i can at 220, meaning the same amount of squats or pull ups. In my opinion, Its clear the brain is aware of how much you weigh, and tries to keep your muscles up to par with your body weight. Which is exactly what the PHD guy was saying.
Listen you fat fuck, you only gain muscle if you work out or exercise the muscles accordingly. What you gained was a bunch of weight and the relative strength gains is simply a byproduct of weight gain.
My 2 year old niece can do 5 push ups , you don’t gain muscle sitting around . ~~~Science 🧪 ~~
3LlTE
Cursing and calling me a fat fuck doesn’t make you right lmao. Calm down buddy, if a discussion about weight gets you this riled up, then you must be a very unhappy person. Its clear you didn’t even read what i wrote.
Thats what i was saying you idiot, i was saying the relative strength is due to the weight gain.
@@Bolt99K Read what you wrote - "That shows i had to have gained a considerable amount of muscle to be able to do that, and that was with zero working out at All."
Your statement clearly says that you gained a "considerable amount of muscle" by simply eating like a fat fuck without working out. Sorry to burst your bubble buddy, but you didn't get ANY muscle. Strength gains does not directly equate to muscle gains.
3LlTE
Okay so doctors don’t even fully understand the body, so since you’re stating that so confidently, then you must fully understand the body?
I was agreeing with the exact thing the guy with the damn PHD was saying. If i gained 50 lbs and no muscle, then I wouldn’t be able to move. That literally makes no sense. When you gain a fuck ton of weight, you have to gain some muscle too just to be able to move around.
I edited my original comment to clarify my point, because it’s clear you’re misinterpreting what I’m saying. I’m in No means advocating or supporting being unhealthy. I
Ironically, there's a captain crunch ad underneath this video while I'm watching it, lol
His math is wrong. 10 calories a day does not equate to two pounds a year. If he can't do that math, I'm immediately a skeptic.
It’s All thermodynamics! It’s not possible to change that. If you cut your calories below maintenance level, you Will lose weight. I lowered my calorie intake, and ate More carbs, and protein roughly remained the same. I lost more weight than I thought I would, and this will happen with everyone (health wise permitting)will lose weight. Joe’s 2000 cal v.s. 2000 cal of different food, if your maintenance level is lower than that, you 100% will lose weight. All drawn out, lower the calories, not counting macros, you will lose weight.
My personal experience has been that restricting carbohydrates improves my blood glucose level leading to greater insulin sensitivity and a loss of weight. It may be that years of poor diet has created an inability to cope with a high carb load and that idea is supported by the fact that while I can improve my HbA1c to near normal, any return to a diet containing a greater proportion of carbohydrates leads to a degradation of insulin sensitivity and weight gain. My own hypothesis is that humans while young and healthy can consume a diet balanced in all 3 macros and provided they don't punish their liver and pancreas with years of excessive sugar and refined carbohydrate consumption will remain metabolically healthy throughout their lives. Modern diets however are so replete with junk foods that a huge proportion of people are damaging their organs and ultimately only the strictest control of carbs will enable a return to more normal weight and metabolic health. Just as we can wear out our joints over time, we can also wear out our internal organs. We can take remedial steps to cope but the damage once done is probably permanent.
Any bodybuilder will tell you this is wrong. It’s about calories in vs calories out. I lost 36 pounds, from obese to lean, eating kfc / junk food EVERY DAY. And so does every bodybuilder in the know. IIFYM.
Not all calories are created equal. Your Macros matter
@@lucasfernandez5987 aka your protein matters for body composition. Calories are all that matter for overall weight tho
@@thomasffrench3639yep weight and body fst
You need Dr. Warren Willey D.O. on your podcast to help ALL of us understand the correct information about what these two men are arguing about.
It's not complicated it's what you eat vs what you burn
calories in calories out
those theoretical 10 calories stored as fat are because you're in a surplus. Can't break the laws of thermodynamics
It’s pretty simply 500 calories off your maintenance google tdee to work it out. Then 1g of protein per pound body weight multiply that by 4 = your protein calories the remaining calories spit your carbs and fats at what suits your lifestyle.
Dr. Guyenet was a complete and utterly childish in this debate. I lost a lot of respect for him in this debate. The absolute condescension in his voice for Gary Taubes was unbearable. Very smart person, but absolutely too self-righteous for me.
@Azzury Street you'd have to listen to the entire 3 hours. If you did you would understand where I'm coming from.
Close your eyes you would think Owen Wilson is talking
FYI 2700 calories is way too much for most people.
All online calculators over estimate calories because they go by the average maintenance calories.
If you want to get in shape (10%bf) and stay in shape you need water less calories.
I'm a 28 yr old male, I'm177cmtalland weigh 77kg, I train everyday, I eat great quality food sources for bodybuilding. And my maintenance level calories to stay below 10%bf is 2,000 calories.
Yes 2700 is very high for the average person. I think the prefered amount is 1500. Also depends what you do for exercise and genetics. I play hockey and soccer regularly plus i have a physical job. Im about 5'11" and about 170 lbs. When i start having longer shifts at work i lose weight and i ingest about 5000 calories a day.
Clayton Mackenzie For a male over 175 pounds your caloric intake to maintain is quite low. Have you thought about reverse dieting?
@@jasonchilds5397
I have tapered my calories to an optimal level with my be calipers, daily training and 2 week intervals. These are my optimal calories assuming I have plenty of protein, a small amount of fat and clean carbs like oats and rice and cut out all else.
I will gain weight on any extra calories.
I think when you are getting better sources of nutrients your total calories required is less and the quality is higher.
Homeboy needs a drink of water
My Calories good, your Calories bad...
yes at 8:40 i am completely confused.....whf is he talking about...
Insulin is the “tissue” (muscle & fat) building hormone. Carbs stimulate insulin release. Glycemic Load & Glycemic Index. There’s apps for this stuff.
Cheap carbs & Junk food stimulates lots of insulin release. High load, high index. Fat and some muscle gets built.
13:18 - 13:50
Hahaha Gary got so butthurt here
I will say they both have a point it starts as just 1 extra coke a day but as the body adds weights the basal metabolic rate increase cause them to eat at maintance everyone wants to eat at maintence but because of poor diet choices and bad habit they continually gradually consume more and more calories
Stephan should have played it more cool because what he is saying is correct. Gary is literally the most biased person on this topic and does not look at things objectively. Look up his debate with Alan Aragon. He got torched in that one as well.
I went fromm 240 to 170-175 using what Gary preaches.
That makes no sense. Are you saying you were eating a high carb diet with exact same calorie intake as your low carb diet? There would literally now change in your weight. What im guessing you are saying is you went from an unhealthy shitty diet to a healthy one. Thats totally different.
@@nervinsidhu5663 what they're arguing about is the mechanisms, Stephan agrees you can lose (or gain) weight on a low carb diet. But Gary's model suggests 10000 kcal of butter a day would lead to no fat gain.
It's calories in vs. calories out if you want to lose WEIGHT.
In order to lose FAT, you must first gain enough MUSCLE and then lose enough WEIGHT to lower your BF%.
3LlTE so if I stop eating I won’t lose any weight because I haven’t gained the muscle first?
@@_Nibi Read what I wrote again, carefully, dumbass. I figured putting certain key words in all CAPS would help you inbreds but clearly this isn't the case.
3LlTE ok, so if I stop eating I won’t lose any fat because I haven’t built up the muscle to lose it?
Not well structured at all
Best way to gain muscle is to eat enough to gain weight and muscle but also always fat because you can’t control that, but then you lose weight to drop body fat and look better
3LITE just doesn’t know how to structure his thought
Came here to watch a scientific discussion, ended up watching a presidential debate😂
I feel like shit and gain weight when I’m eating high carb. I start dropping quick and feel better when I cut carbs and stick to veggies protein and fruit even with the same calorie range so I’m kinda with Gary.
Me too
Greg Doucette has entered the chat
Gary is a long-winded vague drone.
dude literally said we reject the studies we don't like, and by don't like we mean got the answer we don't agree with. that's not how science works bro
So, the one study Gaty cited has participants that defied the laws of physics, amd when those participants are removed, the study shows differently. I think this needs to ne fact checked.
That Stephan dude is extremely disrespectful and thinks he's smarter than everyone else. I lose fat faster on low carb diet than on high carb diet despite intaking same # of calories, as do a lot of my friends and family.
joe Rogan thinks pasta in deficit is bad for you 😂
Pasta IS THE MOST POISONOUS NON FOOD that’s processed and sold as Human food. If you’ll wake up a bit and find out what has been done to the American Wheat Crop. And then understand what, why and how ROUND UP (Glycosphate Pesticide Cancer Causing)is doused onto all wheat crops prior to harvesting, then you’ll begin to comprehend that Pasta (Seminole Wheat Flour) is the most poisonous, least nutrients, insulin resistance causing, non food produced right next to GMO Corn. The reason you hear about GLUTEN? Is because that the center part of the wheat kernel and it’s not just worthless as a food/nutrient. Many people react so badly they must be hospitalized. People are dying who sprayed Glycospahte on crops and accidentally got it on their skin! And yet, you’re eating it thinking that it’s food, along with the rest of people in this Cou try unable to mentally absorb a few nutrition courses.
insulin or not, carbs or not, high fat or low fat.... man dont complicate things. calories in vs calories out. use carbs for workout energy and good fats for hormonal health etc. eat enough protein to be full and 2 restore body tissue ( protein is more satiating and burns way more calories than carbs through harder to digest for the body). move enough/train muscle and don't overeat all days of the week.. done
One guest is a child inside a body of an adult the other sounds like he’s about to commit suicide after the show.
"Hold on Gary"
“It doesn’t matter what you eat.” Except for one thing: if you eat too many carbs and in particular ultra processed junk food...then you will be much hungrier and will tend to overeat.
Where's Dr. Rhonda Patrick?!
I’ve never been so annoyed at someone’s voice
Stephan is right. Good point.
Tense! I think the key is calorie reduction. Eat less. Move more.
That literally doesn't work
They should get in the ring
People need to learn the difference between refined and complex carbs
Without good calories I feel weak and tired so it is simple: I eat calories. I eat protein too.
But they gave different macronutrients to each group and their maintenance calorie requirements obviously stayed the same
this guy needed a glass of water my goodness
Stephan runs me the wrong way. He gets a little petulant when talking to Gary, and it’s unnecessary. Though, Gary also isn’t playing very nice. Bottom line, this is an odd hill to die on. Who the F cares, if you want to lose weight…. Eat fewer calories.
So you agree with Stephan..... Idc if he argues dirty, he's right.