Honda NC750X - "Half A Car Engine" Fact or Fiction?
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- Опубліковано 10 кві 2023
- Following on from the model history, walkaround and ultimate review of the Honda NC700S / NC700X / NC750S / NC750X / DCT I did last month, I wanted to take a look at the discussion about whether the NC750X engine really is based on one of Honda's car engines, or is it just a myth?
#OnTheDrive #bikingchap #Honda #NC750X #NC750S #dct
Kevin Ash on the NC700X - www.ashonbikes.com/content/ho...
Full review and buyers guide: • Honda NC750X Ultimate ...
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Thank you! - Авто та транспорт
This is fascinating! I love all the details!
Thank you :) It's a tough one to judge when starting out, some people just want the overview, others like a real 'deep dive!
I’ve had an old Honda Nighthawk fora while now and I’m looking to upgrade to this bike. Thanks for the info!
Try and get a test ride if at all possible but they're a great, economical and dependable bike!
I personally think that the fact is that the engine did use the car divisions knowledge and experience in the development and design of the NC engine, but basically that's as far as it goes, and thus, taken literally the half a car engine is a myth 👍🏻
Hi Kevin, that's what I've tried to draw out in the video basically that the two arguments that a) there's no connection to the Jazz engine and b) it's half a car engine, are both wide of the mark. A few components are the same, some are very similar, most are completely different. That said I think we'd struggle to find any other current bike engine that shared anything at all with a current car engine!
Great explanation Mr. Biking Chap. I suspect that the higher revving power in the Jazz/Fit is due to the VTEC valve train that boosts the power after 4,000 rpm. I love my 2016 Honda Fit and look forward to buying a 2021 or newer Honda NC 750X DCT. I have a 2006 Honda Silverwing 600cc (Scooter on Steroids) and love the twist n go.
Thanks David, appreciate the comment. The Jazz my partner had had the earlier engine and I'm pretty sure (though I'm happy to be corrected) that it wasn't VVT) I think you'll enjoy the NC, for real world riding, they're a great package :)
Nice pretty cool and unusual research.
Totally opposite to “look on this line, it’s pretty new style choice…”😂
I enjoyed video!
Hey @yevhennahornyi3786 thanks for your kind words, I’m trying to offer up something a little different. :)
Funnily enough in a later article Kevin Ash repeated the myth himself as though it was gospel, that is how well the myth was perpetuated.
Funny old world isn’t it? Like so many urban myths there’s an element of truth in it but no, it’s not ‘half a car engine’
that was a very informative look at whats been a long running topic of conversation whatever the truth is its a great engine i love mine loads of grunt
@arthurdunga345 thank you for your kind words :) I don't think there's any shame in sharing technologies like this and it has been raised so many times I thought I'd have a good dig around and see what I could find :)
Hi, this is a great video.
I've got an XAdv. With what looks like similar luggage etc to your NC.
If we're ever close or could meet I'd happily let you make a comparison video to see how the 2 differ.
Regards Melv.
@melvbodgeshop4125 Hi Melv, many thanks for your kind words, very much appreciated. I'm based in East Sussex if you're anywhere remotely nearby. The challenge I have currently is securing bikes to make videos on, the bigger channels get bikes from dealers and the really big names get press bikes from the importers but i don't want to go down that path as they always feel the need to be gushing in their praise. I'd rather find another way. The CB500X I'll be doing shortly will be rented for the duration, not cheap, but it means i can be completely honest without fear of the importer support drying up. :)
If you are ever down this way I'd be interested in a side by side comparison video where we could go through the difference in cost and how much better spec'd the XADV is etc. Don't worry i wouldn't look to ride yours, I've had a good go on one before and thought they were brill. :) Thanks again,
BC
Enjoyed this little story, I wonder how many manufacturers borrow parts from cars? New Subscriber by the way
@tomstc thank you, glad it was of interest. :) One of the other guys mentioned that BMW used some internal engine components on their earlier boxer twins but most bike engines are very much motorcycle specific now I think. Thanks for the sub, very much appreciated!
@@BikingChap I believe the f800 engines share an oil filter with a Toyota car
@@chrishart8548 now that's interesting to know. It would make sense to use existing designs where they work, it has to cut down on costs. :)
The nc was a new bike i never heard of before and after finding out and doing some digging, i bought one first opportunity.
Its so sad that honda or brands generally speaking "forget" some models exist or when they are out of production.
You people should look up honda crossrunner before falling in love with the nc, its truely majestic.
I very nearly upgraded to a Crossrunner, beautifully built bike and they sound glorious but i just couldn't warrant the extra cash. Cracking bike though.
But no longer made and wasn’t available with DCT.
Sadly right, too expensive to build and modify to keep getting through ever tightening emission limits I suspect. The v4 predated the dct engines by many years so that was never going to be on the cards.
Great content and well delivered. I'd heard the myth, and was prepared to believe it was just that. By revealing the similarities, the manufacturing economies now make sense. I use mine for a London commute and find, with the DCT, it's ideal for the job. Looking forward to more on the MZ project.
@jacksomb1 Many thanks for that, it's much appreciated :) As you say the economies now make a bit more sense, especially as the goal was an economical and reliable powerplant. Can you imagine if they made a four cylinder version and used it as a budget tourer engine? Regarding the MZ, it's going to need a bit spending on it so once i have the money I'll get the parts and put a decent length video together for everyone. Thanks again!
I have NEVER heard ANYONE describe a Honda Jazz as rapid before 😂😂
I’m amazed no one else has pulled me up on that. ;) The irony is that the car engine is utterly gutless low down but went quite well when wound up on the motorway. Odd given the age demographic of the average buyer ;)
Thank you for this video. Well researched. I'm thinking of buying a new NC750X as my first big bike. Would you recommend it? As silly as it sounds, the frunk seems amazing. The economy is great, and it's not bad looking...
@Victor-vf1fi thank you for your kind comments. Rather than look at bikes as 'good' or 'bad' I think the secret is to understand what your priorities are and see which is the best compromise *for you*.
That said I think it does generally work well as a first bike. The engine is flattering, easy going and unintimidating and crazy economical. The frunk is very useful and while smaller than a big top box, the way it integrates with the rest of the bike is great. Pop a power socket inside and charge all your kit as you travel.
I think i would consider a manual if you haven't been riding long as i think it helps to build experience on a geared bike but if you've had scooter previously and still lean that way perhaps the DCT is an option. Try both if you possible can.
Good luck and let me know how you get on!
@@BikingChap thank you for the informative reply. Will let you know how I get on this Saturday. Safe travels!
I was just wondering how you got on, did it work for you or are you looking at something else now?
@@BikingChap thank you for your reply. The NC750 rode like it was already mine. Never felt the weight. Tested the manual version. Unfortunately my helmet didn't fit in the frunk. Was surprised of the handlebar vibrations on the motorway but perhaps I was holding onto them a bit hard. Basically the bike impressed in most areas especially how it handled. Found the throttle a bit snatchy surprisingly so rode it in rain mode. In the end I purchased a Moto Guzzi v7 stone as I fell in love with the characterful engine. It's getting delivered on Tuesday. Bit of a risk but the Honda didn't make me smile... The Guzzi did. Lovely bikes both of them.
@@Victor-vf1fi thanks for coming back to me. That's really interesting as I'd been looking at the V7 Special, I have to say I love the traditional clocks and headlight on that model. Would you say they're similar in performance?
It's a good video and at last someone has done some research rather than writing 'it is' or 'it's not, it's a myth'..
But all Honda did is exactly what BMW (and others) have done in the past. The re-lauch of a more modern BMW in the 70s with the /5 and subsequent airhead range famously used the car con rods and odd parts. It's sense to use economies of scale and reuse parts where appropriate although a relatively low component count reused suggests it isn't that simple.
I'm surprised that you are surprised to find that in execution the Jazz and NC engines are rather different. Merely comparing any four and any twin (both in theory and in use) will show their characteristics to be inherently different in the way they deliver power and torque. I wouldn't imagine bore, stroke, common components, etc would ever imply they will perform the same way.
But thank heavens when someone says 'That's half a Jazz engine' there's a good reference source to throw out.
@davgb7904 thank you for the kind words. I think like many of us I was getting a little tired of the 'oh yes it is, oh no it's not!' arguing when most people had hardly looked in to it.
Interesting that the airheads used car rods, that one had passed me by. I was going to make reference the K100 as I was convinced it was based on a car engine but all I could find was references to Peugeot's 'suitcase' engine which was used as a concept demonstration but offered no parts in the final design to my knowledge. Another myth busted ;)
I wasn't really that surprised regarding the difference in characteristics of the Jazz and NC engines. Although there are architectural similarities it's clearly tuned differently, certainly the cam timings are different, I suppose i was still thinking that an undersquare design would still exhibit good drivability and it was woeful in that regard. I think also emission challenges meant they ran it very lean at very low revs.
Thanks again for the feedback, much appreciated.
Honda planned to build a long-stroke, low-revving engine and took cylinders, pistons and parts of the valve train of a Jazz to develop a completely new engine.
Yamaha also used two cylinders of a Toyota car and developed the XS650 engine.
Just because some parts are from a car engine doesn't mean that it is a car engine.
Yup, that was my conclusion too. Half a car engine? No. Based on a car engine? Yes, I would say so, certainly more than any other bike engine I've seen, K series aside.
@@BikingChap The prototype of the K had a Peugeot engine. :)
@@PrimoStracciatella was that the old 'suitcase' engine?
@@BikingChap The flying brick.
Yep, funny how these car engine derived designs seem utterly bomb proof and long lived.
Do you get 250 Miles from the tank ?
Hi, on my daily commute of around 8 miles, much of it town based, I'd get around 190 miles. When I went touring in France however, yes, I could get 250 miles if I was cruising 50 - 60mph down the back roads for a tankful.
I had Honda NC750 X with manual gearbox for 2 years and it felt very different to any other bike I ridden before and after.
This engine pulls like a locomotive from low revs, which makes it very enjoyable to ride. I heard before about this engine being half of car engine , but never got into that much detail. It is very fascinating how honda designed this engine, which is one of the most interesting engines in the motorcycle world
I can’t think of another Japanese bike engine quite like it, it’s more like a refined Guzzi or Harley engine in that it works so well at low and medium revs and no doubt that’s why it gives such great mileage and lasts so long. 👍
I-4 beats I-2 in performance in every respect. I-2 is "tuned" for low end torque is marketing hype.
@hornet224 It's an increasingly complex area. Historically I-4 engines could produce more power than an I-2, they can rev higher and have greater valve area, a no brainer. Now it's more complex, at the very high engine speeds an I-4 needs to run at to produce those extra horses emission targets become very hard to hit so everything has to be 'dialled back' losing the I-4s advantage to some degree.
The NC isn't so much 'tuned ' for low end torque but designed from the ground up to produce power that way. The new Hornet runs a bore / stroke of 87mm x 63.5mm to give 755cc compared to the NC's 77mm x 80mm for 745cc that alone tells you that one was designed for good low rev performance and economy in mind, while the other was designed for peak power. I think it's great we still have a choice of two very different bike engines in this capacity segment! :)
@@BikingChap we have a choice for now but probably not for long were losing the L4 bikes fast
@@chrishart8548 Absolutely Chris. I think there are a number of factors at play. I think any new fours will be big capacity, 1000cc or bigger. The CB650R is the last surviving smaller four and you can see new models in the 800 - 1000cc class are often twins now. I think this is down mainly to productions costs and ever increasingly development costs. There's only a few years left where manufacturers are going to be allowed to sell petrol powered bikes and so as the years tick by the pay back period for new engine development gets shorter and shorter. Inevitable sure, but sad times too.
@@BikingChapI also read that manufacturers are better able to control the AF ratio and meet emissions targets on larger cylinder capacity, which clearly gives the advt to a 2 cylinder over a 4 cylinder.
I'm not exactly sure why that would be the case though.
Surely 4 throttle bodies gives better control than 2?
Although all modern bikes have 2 throttle bodies per cylinder, so I guess 8 is better than 4?
Anyway, I'd love to get a better technical grasp of how they are managing to engineer the balance between emissions, AF ratio and power.
That's my homework sorted.
@@UpsideDownFork I couple of things I've picked up over the years: the 'sweet spot' for a cylinder's capacity is about 350cc on a bike. The theory being that bigger than that and you limit power due to not being able to rev as high as you might like and smaller than that and you have lots of cylinders for a given capacity leading to more frictional losses than what's optimum.
As far as emissions go I'm sure I've read that there becomes an issue with burn time i.e. a four needs to rev high to produce the extra power than a single or a twin and this leads to a very short period to burn all the fuel to keep emissions low, hence why modern small fours have all but died (cost too being an issue) I've also read the same applies for valve timing and small fours need big overlap to generate high rpm power and that's not good for power either.
I think I need to start doing my homework in this area too!
NO!
Sure, but it's certainly closely related to it!
Just bought a 2023
Good for you John! How do find it?
Heh -- I just bought a 2023 too! Thought the "half a car engine" was just, er, "sales puffery" ...nice to see it has a basis in the development!
Congrats on the new bike! It’s an interesting one because the ‘it’s half a car engine!’ vs ‘No, that’s a myth!’ argument still rages on in some quarters. Enjoy that new bike, ride safe!
@@BikingChap thanks for the encouraging words :-) so far I'm enjoying the bike almost as much as your videos (well maybe I'm enjoying the bike a lot more haha but seriously thanks for the videos)
@TristanMorrow thank you for your kind words, I’m glad to hear you’re enjoying it and the videos too! All the best. :)
Well researched. So it is half a Jazz! Haha. 😂 Who cares. You could do a lot worse than put an Honda car engine in a motorbike. Honda are smart the way they utilise bike engines in a variety of styles and models. Keeps costs down through economy of scale..
@stuartstibbs2069 exactly, who cares, it's smart engineering. :) I think the confusion arose from the joke the project lead made, some people took that as meaning there was no connection but he was, of course, saying that there was more to it than just cutting a car engine in half. I still think it's a fascinating story and it would've been great to see a four cylinder variant used to power a budget tourer. A creamy smooth, hugely torquey 1339cc 110bhp Pan replacement maybe? ;)
@@BikingChap wasn't that almost what the pan European engine was anyway. It was 125hp hardly much for a 1300cc V4
@@chrishart8548 In honesty I haven't looked in to the Pan engine but the fact it's a V4, albeit in a low state of tune, suggested it's probably not linked to the car engine in any way, off the top of my head I think it predates the Jazz by quite a few years too.